Clips from our "Dharma and Racial Justice" talk online with the Garrison Institute. Talking about institutional racism, microaggression, racism in the mindfulness field, and the influnces that helped us start the Holistic Life Foundation.
Meet your Teacher
Baltimore, MD, USA
Transcript
So I guess another thing around starting the Holistic Life Foundation, Our dad was one of those people that pulled us up and told us not to go get jobs for many reasons. And he told us to start our own business. I don't think he was kind of upset in the beginning that we started a nonprofit. He wanted us to do something a little more lucrative because he was paying our bills when we first got started. And I think he heard nonprofit and was like, Wait a minute, These dudes got to start making some money so I can stop paying all their bills. But for a few reasons, One, He always said, Don't go earn a check, Go be the check. Like you got to start your own business. And he also noticed that like, As people, As being two black men, His sons and Andy, His Puerto Rican other son, Like we weren't going to get a fair shake in the corporate world. Like if we went out there to get jobs, There'd be a certain ceiling that we would hit. I mean, We have friends that work out there in the corporate world or in other sectors where like they're training people that get promoted over them. They're getting discriminated against. There's lots of things going on in their job. Like it's a racist environment and they're not really thriving and they're suffering because of it. I think that's one of the things that we're grateful for is that we were our own bosses. And I mean, We were able to kind of not only take care of ourselves and hire ourselves, But hire other people who might not get chances in other sectors and other areas. Remember, I mean, I remember our dad talked to us a lot about the segregation era, How people, How back then he grew up in Turner Station, South of Baltimore city, Where he would say like, He remembers back in the day, Like he would, The stores in his neighborhood, He said there was a black pharmacist, There was a black, There were black teachers, There was a black doctor, There was a black dry cleaner. And then after segregation, All these opportunities dried up because people went from his community and wanted to spend their money in white owned stores. The same stores that made him and his, Him and my grandmother have to go around the back to get clothes from the store because they couldn't go in the store or where they would have to, They couldn't go get lunch there. So, And if they, And it was just, It was just things that he showed us in life about business that always came up. And I mean, Even though we were our own bosses, There were still tons of times where like we were treated unfairly. I mean, I know Trading Places is one of me and Ockman's favorite movies of all time. And there's definitely points in our life where we'll quote Billy Ray Valentine. And it's like, You know what I mean? Like we'll be sitting in a meeting and some will be sitting in a meeting with someone who's usually an older white dude and they'll say something to us in a way very condescendingly, Where it's something that somebody who's been doing this work for this long, Actually somebody who's been doing this work for a couple months would know, But he would say it like he was explaining something to us. And you know, Seeing where the Duke brothers are with Billy Ray Valentine, And they're like, You know, Bacon, Like in a bacon, Lettuce and tomato sandwich. I mean, I'm gonna look at each other and be like, Yeah, You mean like in a bacon, Lettuce and tomato sandwich and like laugh at each other. Cause it's ridiculous that that's the way that, But that's just the reality of the world. Like we've been doing this work where as experts at what we do, We were pretty successful in the business side of things too growing our business from in the red to a multimillion dollar organization with the world with international reach, But still at the same time to a lot of people, We're just two black dudes and a brown dude and that's it. So, Yeah, Just, I mean, That's just some, Ochman, You got anything to add? I got some other things I can talk about, I figured out. I mean, Just to build off of, You know, The different seeds that our dad, We call them Smitty Planet when we were younger. I remember him always talking about, We got to build a Noah's Ark. I was like, Man, What in the hell is he talking about? But he saw, You know, Economic storm coming, You know, A lot of tension coming and all that stuff where he knew that we were sharp enough, Had enough support, Had enough love, Had, You know, Opportunities to get top notch education to where he wanted us to try to build a Noah's Ark, You know, For ourselves, For our family and for other people in our community that don't get any opportunities. Like Ali was saying with Holistic Life Foundation, You know, We're able to analyze a lot of things that's wrong with the system and address it from insight, Whether it's people coming out of jail and you know, You can't get a job. So of course you're gonna break the law again and you get caught up in recidivism. So we saw that, We created a workforce development program where we can employ those people. We have to get creative because some of our folks may have violent offenses, So they might not be able to go into schools, But we'll put them in like recreation centers, Churches, And you know, Stuff like that. And one thing that we've seen is not only does that break the whole cycle of these individuals recidivism, But it inspires those people around them that might not have ever had any contact with us where, You know, One of our kids that may have come through our afterschool program, Mentoring program, Workforce development program may have come from a situation where they might not have been able to financially support themselves and they might not be able to support their families, But now after they get employment with us, We make sure we understand the disparity in, Sorry, My dog is barking a little bit, But we understand the disparity that people have in economics and we try to address that by making sure that people that came through our program, Sorry about that once again, That people that came through our programs had an opportunity not only to become financially independent, But thrive and grow in our business. And you know, That's, I think one of the main things besides teaching people yoga and mindfulness is creating jobs for folks that might not have graduated high school, Might not have graduated college, But they're leaders in their own right. They just don't get any opportunities because the educational system is faulty. Like, Especially in our hood, Man, Like that's the reason why we started our afterschool program is the disparity in the educational system. Like Ali was saying, We went to friends and we got exposed to a lot of enrichment activities, Whether it's camping or gardening or robotics, You know, Where a lot of our homies, We would have like hours of homework after school. And, You know, We would see our homies outside playing, Making fun of us and you know, All that stuff. But in hindsight, We kind of understood that they weren't really getting all of, I guess the resources that we were getting to kind of make us think on a global scale. And, You know, People from my neighborhood only think about the block to block, The block radius, You know, That's all their reality is. And what we did with our afterschool program is bring some of those enrichment activities that increased our school to our brothers and sisters in our community that we know, You know, We know the disparity in the educational system. So instead of getting mad about it, You know, Doing something about it, You know, Insightfully. And I think that's one of the things that a contemplative practice in action looks like is you go in ways like Ali was saying, It's an evolution. Like you go in, You see what's working for you, You see what's not working on the outside and you come out with more insight and wisdom on ways to try to adjust that system. And through HLF, You know, That is really what we've been doing is spreading that light and creating opportunities for folks. So, You know, They don't have to be subjugated to having gone to like a school that wasn't, You know, One of the best schools, You know, Baltimore schools are, They need a lot of support and a lot of love and a lot of help. Yeah, I don't know if you wanna add to that. Yeah, No, I was just thinking about when you were talking about the workforce development program, Like we are training kids from Baltimore city public schools to go work in Baltimore city public schools. But as we've grown, Like opportunities from the travel and teaching other arenas have come up. And one thing we've had to do is like learn from our experience out in those arenas and prepare them for being out in the world teaching. I know there's been times where the three of us, I mean, We've been asked, Are we the band at places we've come to? What, Like 10, 15 times? If not more, You know what I mean? At least, Yeah, At least. So it's like never played, Never had, I mean, I played piano when I was a kid, But I don't walk around with an instrument. We just happened to be the only non-white people at a lot of these places. And they asked us if we're the band. Preparing our teachers for that, Preparing our teachers for people asking them questions, Questioning them as instructors. Like Atman's had an experience where somebody made him do the Breath of Fire for three minutes cause they thought that he was a BS teacher. You know what I mean? And just other things where people ask you a question and you give them the right answer and they still wanna press you and think that you're wrong, But then someone else in the room having to kind of shut them down where, But that's like, I mean, That's ignorant. That's not being mindful at all and dealing with microaggression from other people in the field where it's like telling us that what we're doing is being done the wrong way when in actuality we're teaching the way that we were taught and the way that resonates with people. So- Yeah, I remember that really popped something in my mind where we just finished leading a practice and somebody in the mindfulness field came up to us and told us that we were doing wrong and like pointed his finger in my face. I have never forgotten that. It really took a mindful practice to be, To not react to that. Yeah, And like our teacher is someone who has been into the practice since the sixties and taught us everything that he knew. So for him to do that, First off, I don't think that if we were white that that would have happened, Honest, To be honest about the situation. And like our teacher was a very good teacher and it was just one of those things that, Like it was kind of an insult to our teacher. You know what I mean? Like where it was like, We've put in time, We've done the work, We've taught a lot of people and the fact that you feel comfortable enough walking in a room with what, A thousand people in there? Like pulling us off to the side and chastising us about the way that we teach because it's not the way that you teach and not the way that you want us to teach. Like that's some serious microaggression for your ass right there. And I don't know if you all face this, But as a grown man or a grown human being, I don't think anybody should be like pointing their hands in people's faces. And that's like really unmonitored if you ask me. But it is what it is. It's, It comes with, You know, I guess having a practice and you know, Us not reacting to the microaggression, Like Ali said that we have faced in the mindfulness field, Which sucks, But it's reality. It's definitely a reality.
4.7 (62)
Misty
January 9, 2026
That was lovely. Thank you for your work. Power to the people!
Lisa
February 15, 2024
Such truthtellers and healers🙏🏼
Saralyn
February 19, 2023
These 2 Black and 1 Latino brothers offer profound and valuable insights on founding and running a million-dollar international nonprofit, business, education, community, mindfulness; all within the context of their experiences of racism and of Black & Brown community resilience. Highly recommend
Kimberley
July 21, 2022
Good to know about! A book that might add to this discussion might be "Breaking Through: The Making of Minority Executives in Corporate America. " I bought this book to read and possibly integrate into my teaching.
Wei
November 5, 2021
Thank you for naming this dynamic especially in the mindfulness realm..you all have been growing some lotuses out of the muck. More strength and light to you 💕
K
November 3, 2021
Amazing insight into your practice & programs! Thank you.
Jackie
July 17, 2021
This is a really great conversation. Thanks for sharing. ☮️❤️
Seedz🌱
June 17, 2021
Genuine, Authentic, Experiencial, Honest..and UNIQUE (..esp for iTimer !! ) 👍🏾👍🏽👍🏼
Aurora
July 20, 2020
I appreciate all the wisdom send experiences shared about navigating the world, even the mindful world, as people of color.
Katherine
July 13, 2020
Great talk. So many people cant think outside of their owe box. It's fear based. One thing I honestly thought would change in my lifetime, was congress. Still not seeing mixed race in gov. Just my thoughts. Thanks guys.
