by Aiko Ota
I speak with Syama about the seventh chapter of the Bhagavad-gita, dealing with the yoga of knowledge and realization. In this chapter, Krishna speaks more confidentially with Arjuna than he has done so far. He says that out of a thousand people, maybe one person would be interested in such confidential knowledge about God.
Transcript
Hello Yogi, Welcome to my podcast. I'm Aiko and on this show we explore ways to put spiritual theory into sustainable practice. Welcome, Chan, To this wonderful series, Very appreciated from the audience. Thank you, Very nice to be here again. So let's recap a little bit what we said last time. So we left off finishing the sixth chapter, Which is about kind of very intense yoga practice. Yeah, And we can say also we are kind of ending the first part because the Bhagavat Gita is divided in the first sixth chapter, The second sixth and the last sixth. So in this first sixth chapter the Bhagavat Gita is talking about the person in relation to Krishna, So about us, How we should practice. While this now sixth chapter that we have ahead, They will talk more about Krishna himself, Is that correct? Yes, There is more focus on the individual souls, Like all of us living beings in this world in the first six chapters. But talking about both God and the soul. Yes, So in these middle six chapters it is still going to talk about God and the souls, But with more emphasis on God himself. Okay, So what is happening now in the seventh chapter? Yes, So the last verse of the sixth chapter was where Krishna tells Arjuna that those who become devoted to God are the best of yogis. And here in the seventh chapter Arjuna doesn't speak at all. Krishna just kind of keeps elaborating on that point from the last verse of the sixth chapter, So it is made into a chapter of its own, But it's kind of like an elaboration on the last verse of the sixth chapter. Okay, So what he's saying, What is the teaching? Yes, So this chapter is called the yoga of knowledge and realization, Because we can have knowledge, But then it's one thing to have theoretical knowledge and another thing to realize it. So there is like an example given to explain that term, Those terms it's jnana and vijjana in Sanskrit knowledge and realization. One example that's given sometimes is that we all know that we're going to die, So that's knowledge. But if your doctor tells you that you will die in a week, Then that's like realization, Like you understand, Oh like it's really happening, Like it's real, It's, I understand now what it means. So Krishna begins by saying that now he's going to give more confidential knowledge than he has given before so far in the Bhagavad Gita, And he then kind of gives an idea of how like rare it is to hear this kind of knowledge and realize this kind of knowledge. He is saying that out of a thousand people, Maybe one person is interested in spiritual realization, And out of a thousand such people who have spiritual realization or who are interested in spiritual realization, Hardly anyone knows him in truth. Then he is kind of giving an outline of what exists in this world. He's kind of giving a list of ingredients, Like a list of ingredients of the world, Basic ingredients of the world, And saying that he is the source of all of them. Those are his kind of separate material energies. So he says those are water, Earth, Fire, Ether, Air. Then he talks about more subtle elements, So the mind, The intelligence, And the ego. Then he says that everything in this world is resting on him, Just like pearls are strung on a thread. So just like if you have a necklace, You don't see the thread, But you see all the pearls. So in the same way we are looking at this world and the whole universe, But we are not seeing the string that is keeping it all together. And he is telling, Saying that it is he who is that supporting principle. That's very beautiful and poetic. Can you elaborate on this? Yeah he elaborates on it himself in the following verses here. So like regarding these basic elements in Indian philosophy, Those are related to the different senses. So for example the earth element is connected to the sense of smell. The water element is connected to the sense of taste. The fire element is connected to the sense of seeing, Sight. The air element is connected to touch, And ether is connected to hearing. So he is kind of in the following verses he is describing like I am the original fragrance of the earth. So it means that everything you smell is a portion, A partial portion of God. Yes. And then like everything you taste, He is the original taste of water. Everything you see, He is the light that comes from the sun. Everything you touch is from him. It's like the sense of touch is based in him. Everything you hear, So he is the sound in ether. And yes he gives many examples like this, Of everything that exists. He is the seed, He is the intelligence in those who are intelligent, He is the strength of the strong. He is the ability in humans, He is the life in all that lives. So would you say that because he is kind of in everything and everywhere. So therefore he is the connection, He is the thread that keeps all together. Yeah, Or you could say it the other way around, Because he is the thread, He is in everything. As he is saying, He explains later in the chapter that he is not dependent on anything and he is not touched by anything. For example, Because if you say that God is in everything, Then someone may ask, Oh is he also in the bad things, In the wars. And in a sense, Yes he is in everything, But it's not that he is at fault for the things we consider faulty. It is also part of him to give over willpower to us and then we act. And how could you, How can you explain the fact that he is in everything but also we are part of this everything. Like you just say now that he gave us a kind of free will in something. So how do you see the difference and at the same time God in everything? It's hard to understand. Yes, It is hard to understand. He says it's actually impossible to understand this world unless you turn to him, Because he is the one who can, Since he is the one controlling the world, He can enlighten you about how the world is working. So he says other than that, Like there is no way to kind of see through this world. Like it's kind of like you're in, He says like all living beings are kind of born into illusion and you can't see through that illusion unless he shines that light for you. So how do we get there? Is it up to him or is it up to you? Well, It's up to you to turn to ask him for that. It's cooperation between us and God. Thank you. So in the kind of in the rest of the chapter he's talking about who will kind of who will do this, Who will surrender to him and ask him to kind of show them the reality of this world. And it's those who have who have been hearing this kind of teaching and who have been practicing in some way for like lifetimes to kind of gradually build up an understanding of this reality that he is talking about. And when such people come into certain situations that kind of pushes them to pray, Then they do so while others who are in the same situation may not do that and may kind of turn to other things for shelter. Such as like if you're suffering, If you need money, If you. . . Yeah, Was it this chapter where he said that people turn to me for three different reasons? Yes. Three reasons. Like, You could say two things are like kind of outer circumstances. Like if you if you're suffering, I mean, Suffering is of course an inner thing also. But I mean, If you if you have if you're having big, Big, Yeah, Hard times. Yeah. And you're suffering then then if you have if you have kind of built up some kind of understanding of this knowledge over over lifetimes, Then you will turn to he will turn to Krishna in that in that situation. Or if you need money, Because you're in need of money. You may pray to pray to Krishna for that. Or like if you're inquisitive, Like you're you're kind of curious about about the meaning of life and the kind of the big mysteries, Curious you're asking and then you may turn to turn to Krishna for the kind of knowledge you're seeking. And also the fourth one is like not really a circumstance. Like it's more like that this knowledge has kind of matured. You have mature knowledge of yourself, Of your soul. And it's just time that it's just the time is just ripe, So to speak, Like you have a good insight in yourself and into the world and you turn to Krishna because you see that that's that's like the next step. Naturally. Okay, Then what how he continues in the chapter? Yeah, He he finishes up kind of by saying that he if someone has not yet at that point, Where they want to turn to the kind of final solution, Like to kind of talk to the one who is behind the curtain of this this whole universe. But they want kind of smaller solutions, More immediate solutions, Then they will pray to other manifestations of of God in this world. And Krishna says that he if they are not ready to to meet him yet, That they're kind of ultimate shelter, Then he gave he gives them the faith they need to go the paths they need to go and makes them strong on their own paths. Yeah, Because in Hinduism, There are many, Many gods that you can pray for different reasons, Right? There is the goddess of knowledge, The god of the goddess, The Lakshmi, Or there are many goddesses and gods that you that you pray for different reasons. Yes. Yes. There are said to be something like 33 million gods. Of course, I guess a few hundred of them are maybe there are statues and things for like that they are known but but it said 33 million because for every kind of function there is there's a God for that function. Like sometimes it's like there's one God it controls the blinking of eyes. So like everything that's has a function in this universe, It's related to some kind of God who is taking care of that function. And in the end, Like he says that those who follow these other paths, Their their attainments are temporary, But he is like the final goal. And there is no like, You know, Set time that people have to realize him that that will come as it comes like people will will go other paths go other ways, But finally, They may find their ultimate shelter in Krishna. So what can we say that it's the teaching behind this chapter? Why is this called like this? Why it's called knowledge and realization? Yeah. Because he's giving this, The kind of knowledge he's given there is all these things that he is the shelter of the whole world, That everything is resting on him as pearls are resting on a thread. And then he's giving all those examples. So that is knowledge. But then to, To like, Like realize that you have to, You have to practice, You have to practice remembrance of that, And you have to kind of practice kind of a respect for that. And then you will have, You will experience these things for yourself, Like not just in theory. Can you give some practical example? For example, When you're drinking water, You can think, Krishna is the taste of water. When you smell something, You can like remember, Like, Oh, Yeah, This is Krishna is the original fragrance, And so on. But to actually have realization of that is another thing. Like when it comes, Like when you kind of spontaneously understand, Like when you spontaneously experience that as like fragrance as Krishna, For example. So like when you, When you can realize, Like I hear many times, People saying, Yeah, Because God is everywhere, And they, People who say that they, They might have had some, Some kind of deep realization, And they could see that and experience that. So is this, What is this yoga about in chapter seven? Yes, It's like our friend Tim Kente says, This is like the, Actually like the basic kind of yoga is to understand that we are living inside a cathedral, Like that the world is a cathedral. You know, Because, You know, Someone may say, Like, Why should we build a church, For example, Or a temple or a mosque if God is everywhere? And that is because we're not, Like, We're not able to see God everywhere. So we create one place that is, That we use as a focus. Like we know that when we're in there, We're like, We're in the house of God, So to speak, But, But the goal is to understand that actually this whole world is a temple, And the body is a temple. And the ultimate step, The ultimate realization is to see God everywhere. Yes. So because, And like the importance of this is that, Like, Let's say when we're in this, If you go to a church, You know, You naturally have some kind of, You know, Respect, Like you don't do things in the church or in the mosque or in the temple, It's, That you would maybe do in other places. So it's kind of like a shelter also for you, Like, It's a shelter from yourself, In a sense, From your, Let's say, Ignorant self, Like your ignorant side. But the goal is to understand that the temple is everywhere. There is nowhere where you wouldn't act the way that you do when you're kind of in front of the altar at a temple. So it's, It's, It takes away desire to kind of exploit other things and like nature and people, Which are actually just expressions of having lost yourself, Because like we are, We are actually full in ourselves, We don't need any, Like, Speak, Like, Strictly speaking, Like on a soul level, We don't need anything material to survive. But as we are in, In like material bodies, And we are kind of forced to, You know, Eat other things to, To kind of maintain our own selves. But to, To like understand, To kind of understand that we are, We are taken care of, There is no one we have to fight with, Because God is everywhere and everything is fine. Yeah, This can be sometimes a little bit misunderstood. Because we have to remember the compassionate part, Like it's not that because God is everywhere, Then everything is fine. Those people can fight or this population can have war, Because anyway, God is everywhere, It's not really that way. Right? And that's also like, Like why it is, Why it is like stressed to, To, For example, Have a temple is, Is that you understand that in the temple, You don't fight. You understand that it's, It is, It's not appropriate to fight inside a temple or fight inside a church. It's like if you, Afterward, You enlarge your temple, Like you start for a small place, But you make it sacred and then slowly to make it more bigger, More bigger and then part of your entire life. Yes, Exactly. So so yes, Like seeing, You know, Like if you say, Oh, There's like war in some other country, But we should understand that everything is fine. It doesn't mean Oh, Everything is fine in that country where they're having war. The point is more that, Oh, Like the way that they can be helped, Those who are in a war is if they understand that they are inside a temple. Very beautiful. Thank you. So maybe you can now introduce a little bit of chapter eight. Yes, A little bit, A sneak peek. Because it ends here, This chapter seven ends by saying that, That those who kind of understand the things talked about in this chapter, They can feel God's presence. Like if you can feel God's presence, You know, Everywhere, The chapter ends by saying that you will feel Him also at the time of death. So in the eighth chapter, It's going to continue by talking about next life, How you how your next life will be determined by how you kind of live in this life and how you die. Like at the moment of death, You will kind of show what you have learned during this life if you have like learned your lessons. Very exciting. Okay. Thank you very much. And see you next time. I hope this episode fulfills its purpose of inspiring you. If you like it, Feel free to share it, Give a review or a rating, Subscribe. And if you have any questions, Please get in touch at aikoyoga-eiki. Com. Namaste.
