Seeing The Ego Instead Of Fixing It

1:22:41

1:22:41

Seeing The Ego Instead Of Fixing It

by Meredith Hooke

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talks

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Meditation

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In this Dharma talk and Q&A, we explore how spiritual practices help ease suffering by dissolving the sense of “me” or ego. Often, though, we become confused and believe our spiritual practices are improving the ego, when in fact they are helping us see through it. Through mindfulness and self-inquiry, we begin to recognize that freedom doesn’t come from becoming someone better — but from seeing the thought-created “me” we’ve been trying to fix all along. This recording is from a Live Event.

Ego Mindfulness Self Inquiry Non Duality Spirituality Self Compassion Self Observation Emotional Resilience Stress Management Self Improvement Dealing With Difficult People Loving Kindness Meditation Self Identification Emotional Reactivity Stress And Anxiety Management

Meet your Teacher

23232 El Sgto., B.C.S., Mexico

Meet your Teacher

23232 El Sgto., B.C.S., Mexico

Transcript

I thought we might talk about difficult people because we do seem to have challenges with difficult people a lot of the time. And often the recommendation, Particularly from a Buddhist perspective, Is loving kindness meditation. When we have difficult people in our lives, Whether it's someone we don't like or someone that's just We're just having some disagreement with, We're just a little irritated around them. And the practice of loving kindness meditation, I'm not going to go too deeply into that. But it is a practice that really helps pull the thread out of the story of how we are perceiving this other person, This person that we don't like or that we're having some particular challenge with. And so the practice, It feels really good because as we go through wishing ourselves to be happy and safe and then we go through some other different groups of people and then we finish on the difficult person, There really is the sense of seeing them as a real, As a human being, A human being that wants to be loved and accepted and included just like us. And in that state, In that state of openness, It really does pull the thread out of the story that we were telling ourselves about how horrible they are and why I shouldn't have this person in my life and why do I always have a difficult person. That we get so lost in that story, We're so attached to it. And so the loving kindness meditation really helps pull the thread out. And by pulling the thread out of the story. What it's doing is pulling the thread out of the separate self, The sense of me that's irritated with this person. And so the absence of the story, The absence of the me that's irritated, We're still here. But we feel more open, We feel more connected, We feel more at ease because we pulled the thread out of the story. So it's very effective, Loving kindness meditation. And yet we can find we're doing it on a particular person or maybe we did it on one person and then we find ourselves, We have another difficult person, We're like, Okay, I'm going to do it on this person. And each time we keep pulling the thread of the story, But then there's always going to be another person that comes up and it's like, Oh, Now this person's in my life and I don't want this person to be in my life. And we keep going back to the loving kindness meditation, And it's helpful. It's super helpful. But I think what we're forgetting is the why the practice, Why we feel so good at the end of the practice. Because we've stopped identifying with the separate self. That was so irritated with the other person. And so it's almost like we kind of feel like, Oh god, I've got to do another loving kindness because we're always. It's like playing whack-a-mole with difficult people in our lives. You're always going to have, There's, It's always going to happen. You'll have periods of time without a difficult person, But just wait. There's going to be another challenging person coming into our lives. And again, The practice is super helpful. But there can also be this kind of. It can start to turn on us a little bit, Because we can start to get the sense of, My God, I've been doing all this loving kindness meditation, And now I'm still irritated with this person, Or this new person has arrived, And I'm irritated with them, And I think I should be seeing them in a better light, And I should be more forgiving, And I should be more patient. And we start to beat down on ourselves, Because it's like, No, I should be better now, I've been doing all this loving kindness meditation. Still the same sense of self. That's not only irritated with the other person, But it's now irritated with us. Because we're irritated with the other person. And we're forgetting, Oh, That's the same voice. That's the same voice. And just like we've been talking about, The selfing, The ego, The separate self. Is always going to find someone to be irritated with. It's never going to stop being irritated with other people. So the loving kindness meditation isn't making the separate self more loving and kind, It's pulling the thread out of the story and therefore the separate self is passing away as well because the story no longer holds together and a separate self needs something, It has to be in relationship to something to be able to appear. So now if I pull the thread out of the story, The separate self disappears and I feel better. And I'm still here. I just don't have that little nagging voice in my head telling me why I shouldn't have this difficult person in my life. We forget it's the self, The ego, The separate self, All the same thing. The sense of a thought-created me is never going to stop being irritated with other people. It's never going to stop worrying what other people think about us. It's always this is how it arises, Right? In relationship to I don't like that person. Oh, I think they don't like me. What do they think about me? This is how it arises. This is the food that it feeds on. And so the more that we keep playing whack-a-mole with it, With our practices, Which are helpful, But we forget the underpinning principle of why they are actually working. The more irritated we can get because we start to think, Oh, I've been doing, I've done 100 hours of loving kindness meditation. And why am I still being irritated by it? Because the self is always going to be irritated by someone. Give it the right conditions. You might experience periods of time where there's really really pleasant conditions, Really everything's okay. And there's just not a difficult person around. Don't assume in that moment like, Oh, I'm just past all that, I'm over it. I see everyone as, You know, It's all love and connection and light, Right? Because the self will appear again. It will appear again. But it's not you. It's not you. Its nature is to see the world through a self-centered lens, Me as the center of the universe. And me as the center of the universe can always be saying, I don't like that person. I don't think they should be doing that over there. I do like this person. I want more people like this. I don't want people like that. That person's irritating me. They shouldn't be doing this. I should never have another difficult person in my life. That's what it will always do. But it's not you. None of us wake up in the morning. And think, Wow, I'd really like to be irritated with people today. I'd really like to walk around and spend, I don't know, An hour just outraged at some person about something they did or how they spoke to me or how they disagreed with me, Right? Like, I'd really like to spend some time chewing on that for a while. None of us wakes up and wants that. And yet, It appears because the right conditions arise and the self. That's how it arises. It's always going to have a little bit of a struggle. There's always going to be some agitation between it and something that's happening. I either need to get over there. I need to get away from this person and get over there. It's always going to have this desire and aversion, Right? These are its modes of existence. But it is never us. It's not us. We can still be thinking. We can still be. Thinking about going and getting a cup of tea or going to meet a friend and, And, Uh, Planning what we're going to be doing. All of that can still be happening. Without that voice of like, Oh, What does this mean for me? What am I going to get when I get over there? We've all had many moments when we've been doing it, Right? Where we don't live 100% of the time in our heads. And those times that we're not. It feels great. It feels amazing. We're not judging ourselves. We're not judging other people. We're not trying to get away from something. There's a sense of contentment, A sense of ease. We're still here. We're still here. But we so identify with the voice and we so think that somehow the voice is getting improved. Through loving kindness meditation, It's never going to improve. It's, We can see it more clearly, We can see it more readily, We can do the practices also more proactively, So it's arising less. But if we, If we don't, Come to the realizing that that is not us, And it is never going to change its ways, Then there's always going to be a period of time where it catches us off guard. Right? Because. It's what it does. This is what we're trying to see. That's not me. Oh, You're just doing your little thing again. Oh, It's judging again. It's judging me again. Oh, It's not liking that person. It's not me. I didn't wake up and say I wanted to not like someone. And we notice in the recognition that that's not me, We, Oh, Phew. All of a sudden, There's this spaciousness, This sense of ease, Right? Because we can hear it, But we don't have to listen to it. And there's a world of difference between hearing it. And listening to it, If we're listening to it. Now we're caught up in it. Yeah, I can't stand that person. Why do I have to have that person in my life back to back to my loving kindness. And again, And again. Loving-kindness meditation, A beautiful practice, A very effective practice. But if we think that the practice is improving the self, That the sense of self is becoming more loving and kind. Then we're just setting ourselves up to be disappointed in the future. We are just going to find more disappointment because it's never going to not be irritated by other people. It's never going to, It's never, It cannot It cannot appear. It cannot arise. In contentment. Because it always has to have something. It's always trying to fix something, Defend ourselves, Prove something. It always needs something on the other side and you give it the right conditions and we're just a little tired and we've had a lot going on and just how quickly we can start to land on, Oh, And I just don't like that person. And then just so quickly and go, Oh, Why am I still doing that? You're not doing it. The mechanism of selfing will always do this. That's what it does. It's not you. It's not you. The more that you see that. And doing the loving kindness meditation again, I love that practice, Is a great way to pull the thread out of the story. But remember, When you're pulling the thread out of the story, You're also pulling the thread out of the selfing. And that's the relief. That's the freedom. You didn't make the self more loving and kind. The practice pulls the thread out of it. And if we don't notice that. We're going to keep getting frustrated by its antics because this is what it does. It always wants to be somewhere other than where we are. It always wants to push anything unpleasant away, Happening or not. Right? Just perceiving something that could be happening. It's always going to judge and compare and doubt and just kind of just constantly talk. What's going on now? What are you going to do over there? What are we going to do next? And if you're listening to it, Then you're suffering. If you're listening to it, You are identifying with it. That's me. You're believing the thought created me. But if you hear it. . . And you recognize, Oh that's not me. And you can simply ask the questions. To whom do those thoughts belong? To whom do those thoughts belong? There's a belief, There's a me behind the thoughts. And in asking the question, Seeing there's no solid, Independent me. Just an appearance that came into being and then passes away because you question it. Right? Maybe unpleasant feelings arising because you are with someone that's difficult, A little more challenging to be around, Maybe they're They're just difficult. They're not easy. Maybe it's a work situation, Maybe you're stuck on the subway and the person next to you is really agitated and you can feel that energy. Right? And you can feel it in this moment, Like, Yeah, Not pleasant, Not pleasant. But you can feel it and you can allow it to move through you. Right? Because it's like oh yeah, It's just arising, It's going to be here for a little bit, I don't need to make some story out of it, I don't need to try and plan the rest of my life so that I'm never going to be sitting next to someone that's unpleasant because yeah, At some point in my life I'm going to. It's going to be the reality. And the more that we recognize just, Yeah, Unpleasant situation arising, It's not going to last. I don't have to make some story about, Oh, Why this person is in my life and how unfair this is. And why is this person treating me like this? Because that voice, If you're listening to that voice, The suffering is coming. And it's never going to give you relief, But it is still going to come. It still comes. I hear the voice. I hear it. I don't listen to it. Ah, That's not me. That's the freedom. And not identifying with it. And recognizing it's not you. So really, All of our practices, Anything that we are doing, Any type of meditation that we're doing, Mindfulness, Self-compassion. All of it should be at exposing the appearance and then you know recognizing ah yes this is the selfing arising and allowing it to pass and then recognizing the relief that you feel is the absence of the selfing. You didn't improve it. You recognized it wasn't you. You recognized it wasn't you. You just, You're never going to find relief in the separate self. You're never going to find it. I mean, For those of us that have been on the path for a long time, We can have long periods of time where everything seems to be going really well and then all of a sudden it appears again and look how quickly we get caught up in it. Oh, I thought I was enlightened. I thought I was awake. What happened? Because now it's back again. It's like you're just, All that's happened is you're identifying with it again. That's all that's happened is you're listening to it again. And it's so quick to just recognize it's not you. Let it do its thing. It doesn't matter. Let it spin out. Don't listen to it. You can hear it. Don't listen to it. And I think it's probably particularly very helpful for people that have been on the path for a long time because you can really see this. You can see how, My God, We kept falling for it, We kept falling for it, We kept falling for it because we were missing, We were missing the really the core of the Buddha's teachings, No permanent, Solid, Independent, Separate self, No self. Not something, Not that there's not something here. But there is nothing separate here. Everything here is interdependent, Interconnected, Arising, Changing moment by moment by moment, Which is why things are able to appear and disappear here. Because there is an openness here. But then the mind comes in and starts clinging to it. Oh, My anger, You know, My suffering. You know, This difficult person in my life. Instead of just saying, Oh yeah, That's what it does. That's what it does. Right so you start to see it that is the freedom that is the waking up because waking up awakening is seeing through the illusion of separateness. It's simply seeing through the illusion of separateness. And even if it's just happening for a few moments, No worries. In that moment, There's an awakening and there's a, Ah. And then we have the Dharma talks here to kind of help people. Keep putting it all in context. What is it that's really happening? Why do you feel such relief? The absence of the separate self, Or you're just not listening to it any longer. Like you've even, It's not just the absence, Right, Which gives us the relief in the beginning on the spiritual path, But we keep thinking I'm improving and somehow you're not. That's why it keeps coming back. That's what it does. But then there is the truly the seeing, Oh, It's not me. And that's what it's always going to do. So I can let it do its little thing. I don't have to be bothered by it. I don't have to be. Irritated just because it's irritated? Right? And in that way, Instead of the our actions and our following thoughts and feelings and emotions being motivated by a sense of separateness, And we know where that path leads, Now wisdom and compassion guiding us. The path of least resistance. A much better path because thinking can still happen. It's still happening. It will be happening. There's just no thinker behind it. Planning still happening, But there's not this, Oh, And when I get over there, I'm going to be so happy. It's just planning happening. You can sense if maybe there's a little, Oh, It's starting to grasp. Oh yeah, That's what it does. Oh yeah, Just got a little bit too caught up in it. That's what it does. It thinks my happiness is over there. That's right. That's what it does. It's not me. And then the planning, Right, You plan and then let's see, Let's see what happens. Because maybe the plan works out, Maybe it doesn't, But you're here. You're here. You're here in the planning. You're here on the steps towards the plan or the execution of it. And then the finality of that particular appearance or experience, That plan, You're there for all of it. And then it's going to change again, Because nowhere to arrive. Nowhere to arrive. I just thought that might be useful to kind of reinforce again what I'm really trying to impress upon us. And especially because difficult people. Yeah, They're a challenge for us. And it just comes out of left field. But to just keep seeing that too, It's not you, It's always going to care, It's always going to be irritated, It's going to find something to feed off of. And if you can just see, It's not you. There's freedom. There's freedom there. So, First of all, Hi, Sandy and Monica. Oh, Sorry, Monica, I said hi to you before, And Trish. So William, Heard that beta. Is there a way to train the brain to not think of the negative thoughts or ignore them at least? A lot of the, Of course, Meditation helps us be more discerning, More aware of when we're getting lost in the negative thought patterns and then bringing mindfulness and self-compassion to bring us back into the feelings. That's starting to train the brain because for a lot of people in the beginning, Before they start meditating, Their amygdala is very activated. It's very hyperactive, So it's very easily triggered. The slightest thing that goes wrong and we get lost in the negative thought So there's a lot of activation in the amygdala. Meditation quiets down the activity in the amygdala and starts to bring more activation in the prefrontal cortex, Where we are able to manage our emotions more efficiently to be able, Or more effectively to be able to see what's happening. But it's again, What we're seeing, What we're seeing is that the thoughts that are arising, And it's not just, It's not just what we would call negative thoughts. That is creating a sense of separation, Any thought of me just, Oh my God, It's going to be amazing when I get to wherever in your career, It's going to be amazing when I meet my final partner, It's going to be amazing when the house is built, It's going to be amazing when I when I get that next promotion or bonus or when I graduate college, It's going to be amazing, Right? So even on that, What we're trying to see is that there is no one here, Like we're just, We're imagining a little me that's going to be happy when we get over there, We put all this angst into it. And what happens is when we finally get there, And there is stress simply in imagining me being happy over there. There's a contraction, There's a tension, There's a tightening in it. And so in seeing that, Right? And with meditation and mindfulness, We notice, Ah, Breathe, Ooh, Come back, Ooh. Yeah, I was just getting a little lost in it again. Yeah, And no problem, Right? No problem. No judgment. No, Just it's what it does. It's what it does. And in that, Right, Again, Still a little bit more quieting of the in the fear centers of our brain, Right? Because even in the grasping of what we perceive as good, There's a fear, What if I don't get there? What if someone gets there before me? What if I miss out? I have this great idea, Now what if someone else thinks of it? Oh my god. You know, So there's always desire and fear or desire and aversion. They're always two sides of the same coin. So it's not just what we say, Oh, The negative thoughts. I want to get rid of the negative thoughts and keep just the positive thoughts. If the thoughts are about me, Even the positive thoughts. There's suffering. There's suffering in that. And so every time you catch that, And no judgment because it's just doing its thing. It's what it does. That's the mechanism. It's what it does. So every time you catch that and Oh, Wow, There it is. There's the me imagining how great things are going to be in the future. There's the me imagining what they negatively think about me, Right there. Oh, There it is. And you allow the feelings and you just breathe in because the feelings are real. They're happening. And every time you come in and feel. That's direct experience. So we're going from the fantasy, The illusion of a me that's going to be happy somewhere else, And to direct experience, Feeling what's here. So now giving space to the contraction and the tension. Oh, Yeah. And even in the unpleasant sensations, The unpleasant physical sensations that were created by the story, That were activated by the story, Oh, There's a sense of like ease again. Well, I'm back. I'm here. There's not a being lost anymore. And it's just, Whew, Yeah. Yeah, Phew. Just kind of got lost for a bit. No problem, No problem. And every time you are doing that, You are training your brain. Right? And you're no longer believing the story of me. But if we're not, If we're doing other techniques that are not getting to that underpinning of it's the story of me, It's the me that's going to be happy over there, It's the me that's going to be able to push away what's unpleasant, If you're not getting to the source of that. Then it will always catch you off guard. There may be less of it, Because again, There's just, You're seeing it a little more quickly, But it will still, You will still be listening to it more often than not. And definitely in the right conditions where we're not, We're feeling maybe a little bit ill, We're feeling, We've just had a bunch of disappointing news, We've been doing really well, We've been really mindful and using self-compassion and noticing the thoughts which are create, Which behind the thoughts is a little me. This is the key thing here. So William, This is the key thing. It's not just the negative thoughts, It's the belief that there is a me behind the thoughts. There is a me that is not getting what it wants. It's just a story in our heads. What am I trying to say? VR headset, Right? We have the VR headset. We're walking around through life, But we're more concerned with our little avatar in the VR headset. Oh, It's not getting what it wants now because it wanted to get over there and there's an obstacle. Oh, No. Oh, No. And here we are perfectly safe, Perfectly fine. Not a problem in the world. But up here, Oh, No, I'm losing. I'm losing points now because that person got more than me. Oh, My God. Here. I didn't even know I was falling behind. Here I am perfectly safe. Food in the fridge, A roof over my head, Clothing, Some friends, Some support. Totally good. But oh no, In my VR headset, I'm losing points right now. They're getting ahead. Oh no, What's going to happen to me? So if we are not seeing if we are not seeing. The me. Behind the thoughts. It's not just the thoughts. It's what the thoughts are representing. And that we identify with that thought created me. More, A thousand times more than we do of the me that is right here. I mean, Think that we can be perfectly safe and well. And just getting lost in a thought, If I just, If I got this next deal or if I just got this bonus, Then I could feel more secure. And yet you couldn't be more secure in this moment. If you cannot feel secure in this moment when you are actually secure, You will never find it. And a thought created me because it can't exist without needing something to fix, Needing somewhere to get, Needing to push something out of the way. That's the only way it exists. You will never find. Contentment there, You will never find the security or the sense of safety, You know, Just the sense of safety in this moment, Because of course, I'm not denying that every uncertainty is the underpinning of the world, Right? There is so much uncertainty. But in this moment, If you can't enjoy the safety, That you are currently experiencing. There is no amount of money, No amount of relationship challenges to resolve, Health challenges to resolve. There's just nothing that you could do on the outside that could actually bring you that sense of being okay. So it's really important, William, And for everyone, For all of us to recognize it's not just the thoughts. It's what's behind the thought, Because as I think about myself, That's when I start, Huh, Is Meredith happy or not? Is Meredith happy or not? Let me think. Let me think if Meredith is happy. Well, What's going on? Well, She didn't like what happened yesterday, And she's a little worried about what's going to happen tomorrow, Right? And again, Here I can be sitting here perfectly safe and secure. Perfectly fine. And yet in my head, No, I'm not. I need to get over there. I need to do something immediately. There's a problem. And again, This does not negate, Like, Yeah, If you're in a situation where you need to make a change in your living situation, That there's, You need to make a change in your career or there's something, It doesn't negate like doing things, Right? But it takes out all of the tension and the contraction around the, Once I get this resolved, I'll finally be happy. You won't, Because all you're doing is training your brain believe that happiness is in the future. And then once you get to that future moment, It will be the present moment. But you've simply trained your brain to believe that happiness is in the future. So you can never find happiness in this moment. You can never find peace in this moment. It's seeing behind the thoughts, The me is not me. It's a representation of me. And it's always going to be perceiving the world, Myself through this lens of self-centeredness. So even just right there, Even right there. I see myself as the center of the universe. So in that way, We see life is happening to me. Life is happening to me. We've already completely upturned reality. Life is not happening to us. Life is happening. We are life happening. Just conditions arising and changing, Arising and changing. This isn't just Buddhists that would say this. I mean, In fact, It's getting much more common in science today, But definitely you asked any physicist. Things are rising and changing. And we go with the flow, We can still thinking using our working of what Ramesh Belsakar calls our working mind, Right? Not the psychological mind, The working mind, Right? And we can still think, But we don't have to feel like a little frightened squirrel. We can still plan, We can still be doing things, We don't have to kind of get caught up that there's a me, An individual person behind all this. Because there isn't. When we investigate and we look, We don't find there's a solid independent being. Thoughts, Feelings, Emotions arising and changing, Arising and changing. None of us knows what our next thought is going to be, Our next feeling is going to be. And you just, In that way, When you start to see that you're not the separate self, The center of the universe, And start seeing things more clearly, Seeing what is happening, In that realizing, In that seeing, It's like, Yeah. This is all just happening. A part of the tapestry not separate from it. None of it's happening to me. It's just all happening. But the moment we make it about me, The suffering arises. And by Ruth, Good to see you. Yeah, So William, When you're saying sometimes when you're outside and it's a nice sunny day, You know, Negative thought arises for no reason at all and you try to ignore it. I would suggest not ignoring it. I don't think ignoring it is a good strategy. Because it kind of, It's like. It's almost like we're walking when we're ignoring it. It's like we're walking past a room in our house every day. And we're thinking, Man, If I were to open that door, There's going to be something scary behind it. So I'm just not going to open it. I'm just not going to open it. But when we open it, And we see there's nothing scary behind it, Now we're no longer in fear, Not just of that door, But all the other doors. And so where we'll say like, Oh, A negative thought arises for no reason at all. And no, Maybe no conscious reason, But just that's been the habit, Right? Something has kind of been stirred up a little bit and a thought appears. Again, You never know what your next thought's going to be. We never know what our next thought is going to be. And so it's just to seeing that. And so what I might suggest, And this is a good first step, Is just with mindfulness or self-compassion, Right, Bringing us in. Like self-compassion, Self-compassion is to bring us into our experience to, Again, Allow the dissolution of the separate self, Of the self. So just to come in and feel, Wow, There was a thought about, A judging thought about yourself or something, Or what's going on in my life, Right? We kind of just have that, Oh, Kind of, Oh. So if you distract yourself from it or you ignore it, You actually give it more power. But if you come in and feel it, You're like, Wow, Here's the feeling of. . . Something's wrong in my life. Wow, Let me feel that. Let me feel that, Let me breathe into that and allow it to be here. Ooh, Yeah, Ooh. And you breathe and you feel it. And as you're here with what's happening, Direct experience versus often our little VR headset, We're actually here with the warm, Sunny day, Feeling the warmth of the sun. On your face and also feeling the feelings in your body. And because now the separate self, It can't exist, It can't exist if you're feeling, It can't exist. It cannot exist in direct experience. It exists as a fantasy. So as you're feeling what's here, It's now disappeared again. It only arises through certain conditions and passes away. It's an appearance. And then you feel, And also you notice the feelings. Yes, They come and they go, But you're here with what's here. And now you're not fearing the thoughts, Because to ignore again gives this, At least it kind of feels like. . . Oh, If I were to look at them, Then I might, You know, Something bad might happen. But if I were to just start seeing more clearly, Oh, Here's the thought. Here's negative thought. Maybe you're not even clear what the thought is. Just it's a negative thought. All of a sudden, There is a sense of unsteadiness. And you just feel, Oh, Here's negative thought. What does negative thought feel like? And you breathe and you feel it in the body without pushing it away. And then you start to feel like, I don't even know what I was worried about a moment ago. Changing your brain. Every time you do that, And what I do recommend, And maybe it depends on where some of you are on your path. I might just be planting seeds with the self-inquiry question. Mindfulness always accessible to us, Self-compassion always accessible to us, Just talking kindly to us, Ourselves really, Which self-compassion always accessible, But then asking the question, To whom did that negative thought belong? To whom did it belong? And this is not an intellectual exercise. It's not that you're coming up with an answer. What it's meant to do, It's like a zen koan. It's meant to to really kind of throw off the mind in a way and it's like, Oh, You're exposing what you've believed to be there as real. And it kind of short circuits it in a way and it's like, There's nothing there. It was just a thought. You didn't ask for the thought. It wasn't your thought. Not your thought, Just a thought. And all of us are having very similar thoughts. We live in a similar time period, Depending upon where you live in the world, Particular types of thoughts. I mean, 1, 000 years ago, 2, 000 years ago, 3, 000 years ago, Very different, Or somewhat different, Same modes, But somewhat different types of thoughts. But we're having, Particularly in the West, We have a lot of unworthiness thoughts, Way more than people have, Say, In the East. They still have it, But not to the degree that we have it here, The shame that we experience in the West. And because we have such an egocentric culture, Such an individualist culture, Such a me, My, I did this, Look at me, Right, Social media, Look at me. Right? We have such this culture that thrives on how successful you are, Your worthiness determined by how successful you are, How you appear, What kind of car you drive, Right? All of these things, Right? So we do have a particularly neurotic, If you will, Sense of self, I think would be fair to say for a lot of us. And it's why so many people are coming on a spiritual pathodates, Why these traditions from the East are becoming so popular in the West. Because we're looking for something, We're looking for some relief, We're looking for some peace, A sense of ease. We have the good conditions. We've survived. Many of us have. Not everyone on this planet, But for a lot of us, We have. We've survived, And yet we still feel like a frightened squirrel. Someone just looks at us the wrong way, And it can ruin our whole day. Someone cuts us off on the freeway and it can ruin our whole day. I mean, That's, You know, It's like it happened. Okay, I'm safe now. But no, We carry on. And we think of the road rage. That comes out of it. Or just again, We're still talking about it two days later. This jerk did this to me. It's like it's happening all over the world. None of it's personal. Sometimes we're the one cutting someone off. Right? So, The more that we can see. It's not just the thoughts. It's what's behind the thoughts, What we believe to be behind the thoughts, And that we believe that to be us. I mean, Just think about we walk away from a conversation with someone. How quickly do we start replaying it? Not to see, Oh, Did it, Or did I learn something, Or was there something I missed? But I wonder what they think about me. How many times do we do that? And then later it just drops off because now we're thinking about ourselves in relationship to something else. And then we're about, Well, What am I going to eat? Oh, Yeah, Maybe I should do this. Maybe I should do that. And OK, A little bit of thinking, What are you going to get later? But we get, You know, We just keep replaying it over and over. And then it's now I've got to get there. I've got to get there to get what I'm going to eat. Like, OK, But you'll get there. Yeah, You don't have to let your mind be 10 steps ahead of the body. Because that's the suffering. But we believe. We believe. That the activity of selfing, And it is simply an activity, It arises when I start thinking about myself. Myself in relationship to something else, Right? It arises, And then when those thoughts go away, It passes away. And yet. . . The form is still here. But the referencing, It arises and it passes away. And the more that you start to see, It will always care what other people think. It will always judge, It will always compare, It will always be jealous, It will always have regrets, But that's not you. That's not you. If you were brought up. In a culture. Thousands of years ago, Or we don't have to go back that many thousands maybe, But just let's say Native Americans in a Native American tribe, Let's say, One of the peaceful ones, Or actually maybe any of them, You probably wouldn't be having these types of thoughts. They still have a sense of self. But there's a. . . You know, There's no trying to get like climbing the ladder or trying to be seen in a particular way. No thinking, Oh my God, I'm such a loser. What does the whole tribe think about me? Right? Not that there can't be a thinking, And not that there can't ever be a moment that you may be messed up in the tribe, But this incessant thinking about ourselves, Like we think about ourselves constantly. And yet, There is no one, No one. Behind the thoughts, Because whatever it is that's here is constantly changing, Constantly changing. And my perception is constantly changing. But if it's through the lens of the selfing, It's always going to see myself as the center of the universe, Things are happening to me, And I don't like what that person is doing over there, And they should be doing this, And I should be doing that. And it's always that activity of selfing is always going to be doing those, Always going to be having those kinds of thoughts. It's not you. It's not you. This is what we're seeing on a spiritual path. A Buddhist pair a non-duality path. Is exposing, Is showing us all of your suffering. Is not just because you believe your thoughts are true. But because you believe in the you behind the thoughts more than you do the you that is right here. And the more that you see that, It's not like you're left without a rudder. We're so afraid to let go of it. We think, No, It's what's kept me safe all this time, All this worrying and neuroticism. It's what's, Because I'm still here, So it must be keeping me safe. It's just been making us neurotic. I would argue it's not been keeping us safe. And in the absence of all the grasping and the clinging and the aversion that's happening in the selfing activity, What's arising in its place? Wisdom and compassion. Because we're seeing the world clearly. Ah, It's all happening. And this here just is part of the tapestry. Let's go with the flow. Hunger arising? Yeah, Go get some food. Time for a walk, Time for some exercise, Time to turn up for a live? Yeah, Let's go. But the moment the thought is, Oh, And what's going to happen to me? We're no longer seeing the way the world is, This universe the way it is. We're no longer seeing it right. And so it frees us and it is the wisdom and compassion that guides us. And then we follow the path of least resistance. Not to say that there's not challenges, Not to say that there's not difficulties, But this path is not the path of, This is the path of resistance. This is the path of struggles and challenges and resistance and everything's effort, My meditation practice is effort, My mindfulness practice is effort, And this is the path of, It's effortless. Effortless. Right? Meditating happening. No problem. What's happening? The mind maybe is a little busy. No problem. Thoughts are happening. Ah, Not me. That's okay, Right? Or it's a useful thought, Right? Ah, Yeah, I should do that. Yeah, I should reach out. Okay, But not with this, Not putting this monkey on my back. Just because also we're having so many thoughts. It is kind of hard to know, Like, Is this a useful thought or an unuseful thought? And as we talked about a few months back, Mind-wandering is not a bad thing. In fact, Mind-wandering is, We could argue, Really helpful for survival. Not the kind of mind-wandering we're doing today, The amount of it, But when you are done doing a particular activity that really had your attention and your mind is just allowed to kind of wander aimlessly. Like sometimes something comes to the surface and it's like, Oh yeah, Don't forget I got to do that. Oh yeah, That was helpful. Oh yeah, I should reach out to such and such because it's Thursday or it's Wednesday and don't they do the, Oh yeah, Yeah. And it kind of, Some useful things can come to the surface. The problem in our mind-wandering today is that we're just, We're obsessing. It's way too much, And they have found the more active the mind-wandering, That network in your brain, The default mode network, Which the amygdala is part of, Right, The more active it is. Yeah. So it's just, It's okay. How do we want, What would you rather? How would you rather be guided? Wisdom and compassion? Greed and aversion. Right? And the only way To get there is to see you're not that. To so that you stop listening to the voice. You can hear it. And with mindfulness, We can be discerning. Even when we're in an emotional state over something, We can be more discerning like this. Got upset about something and we come in and we felt it and we were bringing self-compassion oh sweetheart that hurt yeah yeah that was embarrassing oh yeah and we breathe and we feel, And then through being with what's here and bringing compassion, We really can be more discerning, Like, Okay, Does something need to happen? No, I just, I tripped and fell and looked like a fool for a moment. Okay, Me and a million other people today. Okay, Move on. Or it's just, Oh, Actually, I do need to go back and apologize, Or I should, Or, Or something, Something, You know, I'm going to make, I'm going to take some action in a way to clean up whatever mess it was, But not from this place of, Oh, My God, Please tell me I'm a good person again, Because I can't stand to see myself this way, Because there is no Again, The way we see ourselves is always going to be from this place of lack. It's always going to be from this place of lack. Even if it's for a moment you're seeing yourself and like, Oh man, Won't it be amazing when I get to some socioeconomic level or something, Won't that be amazing? Even in there, There's a sense of lack because I'm not there now. I'm not there now. Or just the problems start to come in. Oh, But then when I have that kind of money, Everyone's going to be asking me for money. And how am I going to handle that? When people start imagining, Wouldn't it be great if I won the lottery? And we think, Well, Isn't that a good thought? Yeah, Wouldn't it be great if I win the lottery? And we start thinking, Well, What would I buy with my lottery winnings? We imagine the little me, Well, I'd have a house in Maui, But I'd probably also like a house in the mountains, So, God, I better win like $10 million. And actually, When I get that $10 million, Everyone's gonna be asking me for money, So I would have it put in a trust. And in fact, This is how I'm gonna have to, We're already perceiving the problems, And we're already trying to manage the problems, Because we're believing in this little, There's a me that now won 10 million dollars and now has problems about that because everyone's asking me for money. Right? We've already created the tension in it. It will always spin in that direction. It will always spin that direction. See it's not you. See it's not you. If you We're here. I believe every one of us started a spiritual path. Because we wanted to end our suffering. And it might have just been, We said in the beginning, I wanted to reduce my stress, I wanted to reduce my anxiety. That's the suffering that we've wanted to reduce, The suffering of the stress and anxiety. As long as you identify with the activity of selfing, Thinking that there is a self behind the activity, A me behind the activity, The stress and the suffering will always be there. It will always be there. And this is good news, Right? Oh my god, It's good news! See what you're not. See what you're not. Don't try and fix it. You're never going to fix it. See it's not you. Hear it, Don't listen to it. And yeah, Monica, Comparison is so misleading. Yeah. I mean, If we compare, If we're comparing in a way that can be like, Wow, I see how they're doing something. I like the way they did their garden. I like the way this person's going about something. Like, Yeah, That can be helpful. That can be helpful. That can be a helpful thought to see. Oh, Look at how they're going about this. That would be helpful. When it starts to become about my identity, Oh, Look at how they're doing it, And oh, And look at me, Because I don't do it that way. I'm a loser. Whenever it turns into identity, It's the me again, The separate self. But we can look and say, Wow, That's a great idea. Yeah, Maybe I'll try and do it that way too. So comparing in and of itself, Not so bad, But I think as you're saying, Like it's misleading. As soon as it turns into that identity, Too late, It's done. Alice, Absolutely. So I appreciate what you're saying here to William, When your egoic self, And let's remember too, When we say egoic self, It's self. Any sense of self, Not my highest self, My divine self, My highest potential self, It's all selfing. So I just want to be clear on that. It's selfing, Right? Because we do tend to think, Oh, My ego self, And then my real self over here. It's all self. It's all self. But I get where you're saying how you're phrasing it that way. But it will tell you, Yeah, You're doing something wrong if you have a negative thought, Or that there must be a reason for the negative thought. But no, It's just that's what it does. That's what it does. A negative thought arising, You didn't ask for it. The positive thought, You didn't ask for it, Right? It's just the thinking arising. It's just arising. No thinker behind it. A thinker. Oh my gosh, Monica, Wow. Yeah, It's so easy for us to look at someone's life on the outside and see just the external conditions when we have no idea what's going on in their heads, No idea what's happening behind closed doors, Behind, You know, In here. We have no idea. And yet we can spend so much time comparing ourselves thinking, Oh, I wish I was that person. Their life looks so much better than mine because we never see the thoughts. That that person's having. Can be the wealthiest person in the world, The most beautiful person in the world, They have the best partner, The most perfect children. But if their thoughts are just, If they believe they are a self. You wouldn't want to be comparing with that person. You wouldn't want to compare with them because they're no doubt comparing to someone else. As well. Yeah, And it is sad, It's really… because I think also for people that do really have a lot of the good external conditions, There can be a sense of guilt around, Well, I have all these good conditions, Who am I to complain? I shouldn't be upset, I shouldn't be unhappy, I shouldn't be depressed. I think this is why when we hear of celebrities, Janet Jackson was coming to mind when she talked about that she had depression for many years. This was a long time ago, But she had suffered with depression. And you think, Janet Jackson, What? She was this. Pup superstar, Beautiful, Wealthy. And you think, How does someone like that suffer from depression? And I think the message or what's helpful to hear from that is just, It doesn't matter what you have. And I do think also, Though, It's okay. To feel sad, It's okay to feel depressed, It's okay to feel however you are feeling. It doesn't matter how many millions you have in the bank, How you look, How your partner looks, Or just kind of all of what kind of those external things. It doesn't matter. Whatever you're feeling is real. But the selfing has this way of even twisting that. Well, Gosh, Look, You have so much. I mean, You're even more of a loser for not appreciating what you have. Instead of just being able to go, Yeah, Man, It does, The external conditions, They play a very tiny, Tiny role in how we feel. I mean, Almost negligible. I mean, Actually, There is a certain level. We do need to get to a certain level. Of having a home, Or at least a roof over our head, Maybe a little bit of money in the bank, Some health insurance, Some food, Some support. They used to have it at like, If you made $75, 000, This was in the US, And this was probably 20 years ago. It's probably much higher now. You're extra, Making more money, Getting up to the $75, 000 actually can have a big impact on your happiness because you're really worried about survival. But above that, It's so minuscule, The impact that it has on your life. It's your internal conditions. It's your internal conditions. And by internal conditions, It's seeing what you're not. It's seeing what you're not. Okay, Bob, I want to get back to your question because sometimes I know I get behind on you. So I will agree with you in the beginning. I am not my thoughts. Right, You're not your thoughts. You don't know what your thoughts are going to be. The money comes and goes based on conditions. The property comes and goes emotions. But now where I'm going to say, Look at how the activity of selfing does a little quick sidestep here. And it says, I am an observer of present moment awareness. It's turning itself into a thing again. It is not. You are not an observer. Observing. Witnessing. But every time we turn an activity into a thing, That is more selfing activity. So just be careful of that. Be really careful of that. There's a million. There's a lot of ways that the selfing catches us off guard. But turning an activity into a thing is absolutely selfing. Saying I am something, Subject, Object. You just split yourself in two again. Observing of thoughts happening. Sure. Witnessing of thoughts happening. Sure. But the moment you turn it into an observer, That is now, It is back, The selfing activity has now put you into a self, And now you have to be something. I'm going to be the observer. That's not presence. Observing? Sure. Feeling? Sure. And all of that, Whatever is happening as activity, Because this is all activity. Everything here is activity. There's nothing solid that we can find here. No matter how they keep getting smaller on the atoms, Down to quarks, Down to zorks or whatever, I don't know what the other words are. They keep finding, Oh, There's something smaller and something smaller and something smaller. And it's just this kind of spinning energy, Right? And yet the habit of the selfing is to keep turning something into a self, Something, A thing. There's no things. There's not nothing, There's not nothing, But there's no things. And you're not nothing, But you're not a thing. It's, This is, We have completely misidentified who we are. This is the whole tragic problem. Is that we have completely misidentified who we are. We all exist, Just not the way that we think. And in any way that you think you exist, You're going to come up with a concept. It's always because, Of course, Thinking is concepts, Images, Ideas, Right? It's always going to be a concept. That's not it. That's not it. And really, We get to a point where you see also, The cell thing isn't going to get this. It's not going to get this. And Bob, So Bob is an appearance, Right? Bob, So I'm saying Bob, Like in the phenomenal world, Meredith, Right? Meredith, Bob, Phenomenal world. We're an appearance. We come into this, We're born. 60, 70, 80 years on this planet, Feeling happening, Sentience happening. Thinking happening, Connection happening, Talking happening, Hearing happening, All of this happening. And we miss the whole show. We miss the whole ride, The ride that we are. Because we're so busy trying to put this in some kind of a box. That we don't even see what's happening. Like we're walking from one room to the next in our house, And we're so lost in our thoughts, And what am I going to do when I get there? And then when I get there, What am I going to do when I get over there? You know, And it's instead of seeing what's happening. Hearing what's happening, Feeling. Being. Beam. Now, There is an underpinning reality to all these appearances. I don't doubt that. I don't doubt that. Talking about it is very In any way that we talk about it is not the truth, Because you can't actually talk about it. I mean, We do our best. We try. Awareness being the, Seems to be the kind of, Even awareness, When we say awareness, If we were to say I'm awareness, And I would never say I am awareness, But maybe we say it as a pointer, Okay? It's already a concept in our head. It's already a concept in our head and it's not it. But in seeing what you're not, When you have that moment of seeing what you're not, Oh, You're lost inside, That's not me, To whom do those thoughts belong? Who am I? Asking the question, Who am I, Without referencing thought. Without referencing memory, Who am I? You can ask the question. Sit on that. Because there's something here. And notice what we're perceiving. We went from this very narrow view of ourselves and the world, Very finite. Everything's very narrow. And everything opens up. Is completely different. And there's a, Again I'll use words, But. . . We don't want to grasp onto the words, But you know it. There's a knowing. Knowing but not, Sorry, Knowing but not knowing of it because you, It's, It's not a thing. And the moment we label it and the moment and we hear you know i am awareness i am presence i am whatever subject object you just create a duality again We have the duality that we're already, Right? Because the ego just does this little, I'm this. And then we go, Well, That sounds much better. I was unworthy over here and hopeless, And now I'm awareness. I'm everything. Oh, That sounds much more appealing to the selfing. Right? And so it's still just activity. And it's just to say, Oh, And I'm not that. And I'm not that. And see what's here. When you're no longer listening to the separate self. Just see don't make it into some big ayahuasca trip don't make it into some kind of oh my god and it's going to just be bliss and and yes it often comes in bliss there's there can be waves of bliss sure bliss comes and goes sure and especially if we've had really when we come in those really dark moments and i know i'm not alone with this many of us have had this on our you know kind of on the path so to speak the path that you eventually realize you never left right but you kind of oh you think there was somewhere to get to. And she's like, Oh, Actually, No, There was nowhere to get to. But we kind of have to go through the motions before there's a recognizing of it. And so, In seeing what we're not. In seeing what we're not, There is being. There's hearing, There's seeing, There's feeling, There's tasting, There's smelling. And it feels very open and there's a sense of spaciousness but the ego the selfing is going to come back in and go but no it should be blissful and I should be everyone should only be kind to me and I should float on water and it's like that's not you know those things they come and they go they come and they go oh that's where I was going before saying yeah when you're in those sorry I forgot when you're in those really dark moments, When you're in those really dark moments. And you're really wound up and you're really contracted and you're really suffering and you're really feeling like, Oh. I'm not getting it and I got to get out of this, Right? There's this real sense that I'm somewhere I got to get out of, Right? And the dark night of the soul. And in somewhere in that moment, There will finally maybe be a surrender, A letting go. Oh, That kind of realize like you're being pulled out on it, You're in the ocean, You're being pulled out on a riptide and you realize I can't fight this any longer and you just let me let go. Because eventually I'm going to get popped out and I could swim back in, Right? And you just that surrender, That letting go. And from that extreme tightening and contraction, There can be this huge release and it comes in very blissful. And we think that's it. Oh, This is it, Because this is what the selfing has always told me it was going to be like. And it feels amazing. But the bliss comes and goes. The bliss comes and goes. There's no, It's just, It's pleasant when it's here, Enjoy it, Don't grasp at it. And there's still unpleasant sensations arising, Right? Low energy, You're feeling a little off. We've got a lot going on. Right? And the feelings, They come and they go, And the emotions, They come and they go. The feelings being the physical sensations, The emotions being the feeling plus the story, Right? They come and they go. And there's just not an identification with it because, Oh, That's not me. Overwhelming, Happening, Okay, Yeah, A lot going on, Yeah. Yeah, Maybe a little self-compassion. Oh, Sweetheart. You got a lot going on right now. Yeah. It's not going to stay that way. We don't have to make some big identification. I'm so overwhelmed. And if one more thing happens, I'm going to get thrown over the edge, Right? Because we see ourselves right at the precipice. One more thing happens, I'm going to get thrown over the edge. Or the seeing, I'm not that, But overwhelming happening, Yeah. We can breathe, We're here. Suddenly we have more energy, Right? Maybe not a ton, But a little, You know, Enough. And we recognize it's not happening to me. It's happening. It's happening. Bob, You're still there, Although I think we're going to lose you in a minute if we haven't lost you already, Because I know you go to your other. . . Class shortly, But. . . You're still there. Bob hearing, Bob typing. You're here. Oh, You're still here. We can't take an activity and turn it into a thing. That's what we're doing. That's what the selfing keeps doing. It keeps implying there is a thing behind it. And anytime you do that, I don't care if it seems pleasant, Worthy, Altruistic. It's still sulfing. It's still selfing, And it is still suffering. It's still suffering. And this is for each and everyone here to see. So for some of you, If you're newer on the path, And I know when we're talking to a large group like this, I don't know where everyone is their level, Their understanding of of Buddhism or just kind of this way of seeing ourselves in the world. We can just think we're planting a seed, We're planting a seed. Use your practices, Mindfulness, Self-compassion, Loving kindness for the difficult people, Tonglen, Compassion, Love those practices, But what every single one of them are doing is allowing the self, It's seeing the self when it's arising and then passing away. The relief is because the selfing activity is over. The belief that you are a solid, Separate self is over. That's the relief. You didn't improve it. And for those that have been on the path for a long time. 15, 20, 30, 40, 50 years. If you're finding that there's still suffering happening. It's because you're still identifying with the selfing. And it's, You know, So Bob even just saying you're a little confused. Because the concept of I exists is hard to let go of. It is. It is. It is hard to let go of. It can feel very threatening. We can be, Oh, I don't want to hear that. I don't want to hear that. Don't tell me that little me isn't really who I am or the concept of who I am. Yeah, There's there's a lot of. Clinging in identification. That's what this is. It's clinging. And it's hard to let go. And so just be OK with that. Yeah, A little confusing. It's hard to let go. Yeah, Just OK. Be OK with that. Just be alright with her. We get kind of like, Oh, I didn't quite get it, Or I'm still clinging, Or it's OK if you're not quite getting it. That's OK. You're, You're, Bob, Not going to get it, By the way. We think that the selfing is going to get this. It's not. But there is a getting of it. There is a getting of it. But not the cell. And so just as best you can to just as best you can to go, Okay. Okay, Some of the stuff, You know, Went over your head, Good, Good. But let it get where it needs to go. Don't try and put more resistance into it. Don't think, Oh, I just need more knowledge. I need more understanding of it. That's more selfing, More grasping. Just let it come in and, OK, And let it do its thing. Let it do its thing. You don't need to be doing a whole lot. I mean, I do feel, Even as I would say like the activity of meditating, The activity of mindfulness, Of self-compassion, Of self-inquiry, I think all of these are very helpful. As long as we're not like them. Clinging to our practices, Trying to get something out of our practices, Trying to get somewhere, Right? I've got to meditate to settle down, Right? How many times have we tried that? It's like, We're not feeling good, We're feeling unsettled, Something's happening, And we think, I need to meditate, I need to breathe deeply, I need to get rid of this, Right? I need to get somewhere. And of course, Nothing's, You know, It just builds up bigger and bigger. But when we can just acknowledge, Like, This is what's happening. Yeah, There's a feeling of unsettledness happening. Breathe, Allow it to be here, Feel it. It may not go away, Right? That's okay. Because when you're here with what's here, There's no problem. But when you're resisting it, There's a problem. Yeah, And some deep breaths, I mean, Helpful as long as you're not resisting, Absolutely. So I'd say if it's working, Sandy, It's working because you're breathing deeply into what's here. Because I do hear this often where people are like, Oh, I did this breathing exercise. I was really stressed. And I was doing everything I could to try and get out of it. And like hyperventilating to try and get out of it. That doesn't work. But if you're breathing into what's here, Breathing deeply, I mean, The whole ruse is you've got to get out of something. There's nothing to get out of. It's just to see you're not there. And so our practices, All of these tools, They're really. Helping us to come into direct experience, But it's not just enough to come into direct experience. Because if we're not connecting the selfing, Is the selfing that we're identifying with it, If we're not connecting that, Then we're still identifying with it. And it's still going to do its thing. It's just going to do its thing. Chase and resist and compare and judge and narrate and doubt and irritated with this person and then and then because it's irritated with someone else and you're going to feel like oh I shouldn't be doing this anymore because I'm a spiritual practitioner and I thought I was done with this stuff and it's like it's going to keep doing its thing. It's gonna keep doing its thing. But it does quiet down. The less attention you give it, The less oxygen you give it. But it still keeps going. It doesn't, At least I haven't found it, Hasn't stopped. And there's still times getting caught in it, Like, But not for that long. Like, Oh, Wow. Yeah. Kind of got me there for a little bit. Yeah. Okay. No problem. No problem. No problem, Just got a little lost. You don't have to make some big thing out of it, But most of the time it's just, Oh, It's just doing its little thing. Oh. Chris is spinning out about that. That's what it does. It's what it does. It's not me. It's not me. Okay, I think we've probably. I don't think there were any other questions that I missed. William, I hope that was helpful for you in understanding. With the negative thoughts in the brain and for everyone so thank you for for asking that William because you really, You really steered the direction of our conversation here. So we come to Sangha, And we keep hearing this. And you keep looking. And you can't make it happen, But it's just, It starts happening. And just all of a sudden, Life's a little easier. You know, Make it into some big thing, Some big final destination where I'm only going to ever feel one thing because that's just, That's not, That's the ego's, That's the selfing's idea of this. But generally speaking, Yeah, It's a lot more, There's a lot more peace, There's a lot more spaciousness, There's a lot less grasping. It's just easier. It's just easier. But for each of us to see on our own, Right, Each of us has to see this on our own. And And what I, At least I am trying to really Impress upon here. Uh and really through the the good conditions of of my own um path coming across Paul Hederman and Ramana Maharshi and uh teachers that have really really pointed to the true you know kind of really shed a light on the problem in a way that just really collapses everything, Collapses the whole house of cards here. And so I try to share this just in my own experience and how this is coming across. And so that hopefully it starts to just get in there, It starts to get in there and you see you have that moment and Alice you already said to me from yesterday because you had reached out to me about something and you said oh I saw it a few times today and it's just you're seeing it, Don't try and fix the self, I do see that as a very A huge. Focus in spirituality of trying to fix the self or trying to become some other version of the self. It's endless. It's endless. I'm not surprised by it. Because it's, Yeah, I'm not surprised at all when East met West with these teachings, Of course, The ego really ran with it. And for a long time, For a long time, I thought I was finally going to reach my highest self. I was finally going to get there. But it's in seeing, Oh, First of all, There was nowhere to get, And that me isn't me. And all the practices, And I find they do They all help, But we just kind of miss, It's almost that we. We miss the reason why the practices work. And in that way, Keep reinforcing the very selfing activity that's causing the problem. Okay, So. . . If there aren't any other questions, And I think we will go ahead and bring us to an end here. Okay, So thank you to everyone, And yeah, Again, Just, Just. Let it just kind of wash over you. It's doing its thing. You don't actually have to do a whole lot. Just let it do its thing. And we will meet again on Sunday, Same time. And just keep going. So thank you. Thank you all so much. Thank you.