Welcome to the Breakdown to Breakthrough podcast.
My name is Lisa A.
Romano.
I am a life coach,
Bestselling author,
YouTube vlogger,
Meditation teacher,
And expert in the field of codependency and narcissistic abuse.
I am a believer in the power of an organized mind.
My aim is to help people learn what it means to live above the veil of consciousness rather than living a reactive life.
May your heart feel blessed,
Your mind feel expanded,
And your spirit find hope as you spend time with me here at the Breakdown to Breakthrough podcast.
So today we're going to be talking about how targets of narcissistic abuse easily find themselves in double bind manipulative situations.
So a double bind situation is basically when you find yourself feeling like I am damned if I do and I'm damned if I don't.
Essentially a narcissist lacks empathy.
They have no problems exploiting other people emotionally.
So if they have a place to go,
They do not mind stepping on other people's heads to get there.
Someone who is healthier is not going to do that.
They have certain boundary lines they're not going to cross.
Not so when it comes to a narcissistic person.
If you are dealing with a malignant narcissist,
This is someone who can be sadistic,
Who can come off paranoid and who can actually bait you into situations where there is absolutely no way that you can win.
I've heard clients of mine complain that they've had experiences where their spouses have said to them,
I don't want to have to tell you what to do.
I want you to just do it.
And my client will say,
Well,
I want to make you happy.
So tell me what I can do to make you happy.
And then when my client comes home with some roses or does the laundry,
Then he or she is chastised for only doing what they did because their spouse told them to.
It's a double bind.
You can't win in that situation.
Healthy people tell you what they need and they're actually happy that you listen to them or you have taken what they said to heart seriously and you're actually acting on what they have shared with you.
When you're dealing with a narcissist or someone who has high narcissistic traits,
Nothing that you do will ever be good enough.
So you go into therapy and they say,
Well,
You only went into therapy because I told you,
You should go into therapy.
It's a no win.
You asked me to go into therapy.
I'm in therapy.
And now rather than be encouraging and uplifting and being happy that I listened to you,
Now you're telling me,
Well,
I only went into therapy because you told me to go into therapy.
Or I recently coached someone who was dealing with an alcoholic who asked her to please tell him when he's drinking too much.
Personally,
I don't think that's anybody's,
Anybody should have to tell someone else that you're drinking too much,
But okay.
But she went along with it and she told this person,
Okay,
I will tell you when you're drinking too much.
And while they were at a little function at her home,
She mentioned to her friend that she thought that he was drinking too much and he turned around and he humiliated her and he said to her,
Who do you think you are for telling me what to do?
It's your opinion that I'm drinking too much.
I don't think I'm drinking too much.
It's a double bind.
It's a no-win situation.
Now this gets us into trouble,
Especially if we come from a dysfunctional home and we had parents who told us to go play outside,
You know,
Get off the couch,
Stop playing video games,
Go outside and make some friends and go get dirty and go have fun.
And then you come in the house and you're yelled at because you spent too much time outside the house or you're just dirty.
Now you came in,
You track the mud into the house.
Now you're getting chastised for actually playing outside and getting dirty like your mother told you to do.
So it's a no-win situation.
So if you come from a home where you experienced double bind or double meaning messages throughout your childhood,
Unfortunately,
This is something that you've been desensitized to.
So you might be somebody who is now naturally walking around on eggshells.
You might be somebody who has a lot of anxiety trying to figure out how to make people happy.
And you might be stuck doing one of two things that I think you need to raise some awareness about.
What we have to realize is that we have been trained to seek the approval of someone with high narcissistic traits.
That's no bueno.
Okay?
We're not supposed to be seeking the approval of anyone.
In a perfect world,
We're staying in our own lane.
We are being the best that we can be.
We're being humble,
Authentic,
And we're being transparent with who we are.
We're working for people and for companies,
Or we own companies.
And we're able to put our best self forward and really just show the world who and what we are.
And we're able to service people to the best of our ability and empower other people's lives.
Right?
That's the goal.
But when you have a narcissistic boss or you have a narcissistic spouse or a narcissistic mom or a narcissistic dad,
What you end up finding is that you can't make them happy.
Now,
This is really problematic because there are things going on below the veil that you need to be aware of.
Number one,
You're being primed and conditioned to seek the approval of another adult human being,
Which is never good.
No bueno.
Okay?
It's not good to seek the approval or the validation of another human being.
In a perfect world where we are who we are and the other people that we are interfacing with appreciate it and we feel that they respect us for who we are and vice versa in a perfect world.
And aren't we all here to try in our lifetime to at least try to bring about those types of relationship dynamics in the few decades that we live?
I think so.
So that's number one.
You're being conditioned to seek their approval and number two,
At the same time,
You're being conditioned to fear making a mistake.
Why do you fear making a mistake?
Because if you make a mistake and you upset the narcissist and you answer inappropriately according to them,
According to the narcissist,
If you don't pick the right door,
The double bind is there is no right door.
You can't win,
Right?
That's not spoken about.
This is the manipulation.
This is how they're training you to fail.
You are afraid now to make the right choice.
I remember being a little girl and being chastised for making too much noise.
So if I was happy,
That upset my mother.
So I learned to tone myself down.
I thought if I tone myself down and I'm not so happy,
Maybe this is very sad,
But maybe if I look sad,
Maybe that will make mommy happy.
I don't know if any of you can relate to that.
That was my experience.
And then what happened was if I laid down and watched television with the family,
We used to watch the Disney channel every Sunday at seven o'clock,
Or we tried to,
And I had no emotional reaction to what was happening,
Even though I was dying on the inside,
Right?
And I didn't express myself.
Then my mother called me a cold fish.
If I cried when my mother and I got into an argument or if I cried when my brother and I got into it or when I cried because I was just emotional,
She called me a drama queen.
She said that I was overly sensitive.
So I thought that the best thing to do is to tone myself down.
Double bind,
Because when I tone myself down,
I was called a cold fish.
When I kissed her good night,
Every night before I went to bed,
She had something to say.
My lips are too tight.
I purse them too tight.
She don't get out of here.
You don't know how to kiss good night.
Double bind.
I can't kiss you good night.
I can't gain affection.
I can't do anything right because I'm always wrong.
And so I didn't realize two mechanisms were being operated.
I was being conditioned to seek her approval and I was also conditioned to fear a very painful outcome.
And so what does this do?
That leaves many of us to feel like we are helpless.
It's called learned helplessness.
And so if you have a narcissist in your life that is using this double bind manipulation mind game on you,
You might be walking around on eggshells.
You might feel terrified all the time.
You might be on the phone with friends trying to figure out what's the right move.
How can I make this person happy?
You're not realizing that there is this subconscious pump going on below the veil of consciousness,
Wanting to make them happy and the fear of a negative outcome.
So we have to figure out how we can break through.
We have to figure out how we can end this narcissistic tango with this narcissistic person.
I'm not saying it's easy.
In fact,
I know it's not easy because we're dealing with in this subconscious realm.
We're dealing in the non-physical realm.
If this was a chess game,
I think it would be easier to beat a narcissist at a chess game,
But it's so hard because this type of abuse is happening in the non-physical realm,
The psychological realm,
The emotional realm,
The vibrational realm,
The spiritual realm,
And a chemical realm,
Biological realm,
Because what you think and how you feel affects your physiology.
And so you're literally,
Your cardiovascular system is pumped up.
Cortisol is being excreted when you're in fair.
So your brain is overwhelmed with stress hormones.
This literally is all of you.
In other words,
It's not just like you're playing a chess game at a park and you can get up and walk away.
No,
This is you.
This chess game is happening inside of you.
This double bind manipulative tactic is happening inside of you.
And so I want to talk about some of the things that I think that you need to pay attention to if you find yourself in this type of a situation.
When you're dealing with a narcissist who is psychologically manipulating,
They're counting on you being afraid and wanting their validation.
And so you have to consider that much of this work has to be internal.
There has to be a true mind shift within you.
And the mind shift is I'm a grown adult and I will no longer seek the validation and approval of another adult.
Now this takes time.
Neuroplasticity is real,
Which means that you can reprogram your brain,
But it takes effort.
It takes patience and it takes practice.
So the new mindset is,
Or the new mantra is,
Which will lead to a new mindset,
I am no longer going to seek the approval,
Permission and validation from another human being.
I will be myself.
So what this is going to do is help break the bond that is keeping you tethered to this narcissistic person.
This started to happen to me when I was about 21 years old.
It took another decade at least for me to break the bond that I had with my mother,
This double bind bond that I had that was so dysfunctional because what was running the ship was me needing her approval and also me being afraid of a negative outcome with her,
Her chastising me,
Her abandoning me,
Rejecting me,
Talking about me,
Which all happened anyway.
But I remember being 21 and having this serious cognitive thought,
Which was I'm no longer going to worry about her.
I have a fiance to worry about.
I didn't realize because the world is holographic.
All I did was I took all of my childhood wounds and I placed it at the feet of my ex-husband and together we recreated all of the drama from my childhood,
His trauma,
My drama.
Childhood trauma leads to adult drama.
That's just a fact.
I know that now.
And about,
I would say it was at least 10 years later,
There was another break where I actually had the okay corral moment with my mother and said,
You're not the boss of me.
I'm not 12 years old anymore.
You don't get to treat me like this.
I'm done.
And at the same time I was able to break the bond or the double bind bond with my ex-husband.
And I think that that happens a lot.
When you break through the childhood programs that have been running the ship of your life,
Very often times you're able to break the narcissistic bonds with the people that you have in your adult life.
It's interesting how that happens.
I've seen that happen in the lives of my client as well.
So it's an interesting phenomenon.
So personal development work works.
The more you invest in yourself,
The more your life is going to benefit in every area of your life.
So the first thing that you want to do is you want to recognize that no one,
You should not seek the approval and or validation of any other person.
You're looking to be accepted and to accept.
You're looking for mutually satisfying relationships.
Okay.
Number one,
Number two,
You want to start pulling back a little bit and start seeing these double messages for what they really are.
Because if you're anything like I was,
I got stuck in the soup of the chaos that was the double bind.
In other words,
Like I got caught in the chaos,
Like,
Oh no,
I wasn't able to please him.
And oh no,
There's a negative outcome.
Right.
I got caught in that.
And it was sort of like getting my spirit stuck in a vice.
And when I started to think more clearly about the fact that this was a no win win situation,
It was a I'm damned if I do and I'm damned damned if I don't situation.
It offered me a sense of liberation.
I definitely had to continue to work on it.
But I noticed that I was like,
Wow,
There's no one can win.
If,
If,
If Beyonce was in my situation,
He would treat her the same way.
You know,
If Beyonce was my mother's daughter,
She would treat Beyonce the same way.
It's not me.
It is this the way this person's communicating.
There's no way that I could win.
And so you want to start keeping a log of the double messages simply because it's going to help you raise your awareness and help you get out of the vice.
Once you realize it's a no win win situation and you're actually being set up.
The next thing that I want you to do is start paying attention to what you want.
Start paying attention to how you feel.
You know,
When we get caught up,
Those of us who are struggling with co-dependency,
It's our life because we are other focused.
We don't even realize it.
You can spend an entire lifetime trying to make other people happy.
And so if you are someone who is recognizing this pattern in you,
Then consider this your wake up call.
Consider this your breakthrough moment where you begin to realize that you really don't focus on yourself.
You really don't know who you are.
You really don't know what you love to do.
You really don't know what brings you joy.
You really don't know what brings you passion.
You really do know what other people think and what other people need,
But you really aren't really paying attention to what brings you passion.
So you're going to start focusing on yourself and bringing more joy into your life.
The last thing that I'm going to offer you,
And this is something that you'll hear me say throughout my podcast and videos,
Coaching programs and alike,
Is that stop taking the bait.
So a narcissist wants you to argue with them.
Narcissists are emotional ninjas.
I'll say that again.
Narcissists are emotional ninjas.
They're always with the fishing pole in their hand.
They're always casting that line.
They always have a lure that's shiny and bright at the end of that line,
And they're always looking for someone to take the bait.
In the beginning of a relationship with a narcissist,
They'll bait you through love bombing.
Then as you move along the relationship cycle,
You'll begin to feel devalued.
And again,
The scenario is they've taught you to seek their approval,
And now you're afraid of a negative outcome.
So this is a very negative pump and negative loop to be caught in because it's the damned if you do and damned if you don't loop.
And then what they'll do is they will gaslight you,
And you will start to doubt your reality.
And then they will trauma bond you through abandoning you or suggesting they're going to abandon you,
And you will get blamed for why they are upset and why they needed to abandon you.
You tell a narcissist or a narcissist tells you,
I want you to be honest with me.
And then you're honest with them,
And then they chastise you for saying what you said to them.
So be honest with me.
I want you to know if you like my shoes,
And then you say I really don't like my shoes.
And then they're angry at you because you insulted them because you made them feel bad about the shoes that they bought.
And by the way,
It's your fault that they bought those shoes because you told them you like those brown shoes that you saw at Macy's 12 years ago.
You can't win.
You can't win.
And if you're not careful,
And you don't recognise the double message for what it is,
Then you might get stuck in that vice.
And the narcissist will stand there and berate you and berate you and berate you until you are crying uncle,
Until you are exasperated and apologising.
For what?
What are you apologising for?
But you apologise because you think that's what the narcissist wants you to do.
And you're trying to find the positive resolution.
You're trying to appease this person,
Which is really what a narcissist wants.
Over time,
Unfortunately,
What happens to all victims of narcissistic abuse is that you become more and more compliant and more and more passive to the point where you have completely lost yourself and you're living day to day in fear of what the narcissist is going to say and in fear of making the narcissist angry.
And very often times the mind game that the narcissist is playing is the double bind,
Knowing full well that they are going to shift laterally at any moment to make you feel like there is no way out,
To make you feel upset,
To make you feel like it's your fault that they got upset.
At the end of the day,
The double bind is designed to make you fail.
That is the entire goal.
Because if the narcissist can communicate with you in a way that's designed to make you fail,
Guess what?
They are always the winner.
You are always chasing after their approval.
You are always acquiescing.
You are always subjugating your needs for them.
You are always running after them,
Seeking their approval.
And in that situation,
They remain up here level 27 and you are at ground zero and that's what they want.
They need to maintain power and control over you.
This is the way they secure an infinite source of narcissistic supply.
