The Adult Chair Podcast With Sharon Selby: Helping Your Kids with Anxiety

43:55

43:55

The Adult Chair Podcast With Sharon Selby: Helping Your Kids with Anxiety

by Michelle Chalfant

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talks

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As a growing number of children today are struggling with anxiety, parents and caregivers of these children can feel helpless and not be sure what to do. In this episode, Sharon Selby, Registered Clinical Counselor and expert in the field of anxiety with children, teens and families will join Michelle in an important an informative discussion. Sharon offers incredible advice for those needing help with their children and teens struggling with anxiety, giving tips on how to bring more peace and empowerment back into the family.

Anxiety Parenting Teen Anxiety Emotional Intelligence Anger Social Media Mindfulness Cognitive Behavioral Therapy Social Anxiety Mindfulness For Specific Needs Podcasts Anxiety Reduction

Meet your Teacher

Michelle Chalfant

Davidson, NC, USA

Meet your Teacher

Michelle Chalfant

Davidson, NC, USA

Transcript

Hello, Everybody, And welcome to the Adult Chair. I am Michelle Chalfant. I am thrilled, Everybody, Because today I have a special guest, Sharon Selby, And we are going to be talking about not only children, But also teen anxiety and what we can do as parents to help our children. It's going to be a phenomenal show. So stay tuned. First, You can find out more about the show at theadultchair. Com. You can subscribe for free by signing up for our mailing list, And you can join the conversation on Facebook or Instagram, And make sure to request to join the Adult Chair private close group on Facebook. And you can learn all about the Adult Chair and how to find really your true authentic self, How to get healthy, And you have in this group, Phenomenal support and encouragement. It's fabulous. I love my group. And also, One little tiny bit of business. I will be in San Diego doing the Adult Chair Weekend Intensive. I'm so excited. It's Friday. We start Friday evening, October 12, And we go through Sunday, October 14. And it's going to be an incredible weekend. And I've had a few questions about it. So first of all, If you want more information, Go to theadultchair. Com forward slash workshop, And you will get the whole itinerary. And a few people have asked me, How many people come? What's it all about? Etc, Etc. And I just want to say, This is a small group of people. We're talking 10 to 20 people. We do really great, Intense adult chair work over this weekend. So all the information is on the website, Theadultchair. Com forward slash workshops, And come check it out. Come join us in October. My very special guest today, I'm thrilled. This is going to be an incredible, Incredible interview, Is Sharon Selby. She's a registered clinical counselor in Vancouver. She's been supporting children, Teens and families experiencing high anxiety for the last 20 years. She's the author of the children's book, Surfing the Worry Imps Wave, Empowering Your Children Ages 5 to 10 to Overpower Anxiety. Sharon, I'm so excited. Welcome to the Adult Chair Podcast. I'm so happy to have you. It's good to be here. Yeah, I'm so excited. Actually late last night, I went into the adult chair closed group and I said, Hey, I'm going to interview Sharon Selby tomorrow morning. If anyone has any last minute questions, Please post. Well, Needless to say, I have four pages of questions. I thought, Oh my God. I thought, Well, Maybe I'll get a few people that'll chime in because it's late at night and we're doing this first thing of the morning and I'm like, Whoa. I was happy because it gave me, I mean, I have my own questions. I have a list of questions for you and a lot of them matched what I had written down. But what was shocking to me is how many people have children that are suffering from anxiety. It's so true. And I'm like, Gosh, You know, I'm old, Sharon. So I was in school, In grammar school in the 70s and graduated in the 80s in high school. And I know I personally did have anxiety. Of course, I didn't know what it was when I was that age, But I don't remember like friends of mine or I don't remember that being like a buzzword in those days. So has something changed or are kids unhealthy or do we have anxiety back there? Like what's going on with all this anxiety with the kids of today? Yeah, It's a great question. And there's lots of different theories out there. And I think there's many reasons. I think first of all, Back in the day, Anxiety wasn't recognized. So people didn't really know what was going on. They may have people as adults tell me, I felt like there were worms like in my stomach. And you know, I just felt so uncomfortable going to school or different kinds of situations, But I didn't know it was anxiety. And their parents didn't know and the teachers didn't know. So there was much less education around anxiety. And then I think also, I've heard a theory from another psychologist that we are breeding more sensitive children. And I think that's wonderful for evolution. But what tends to happen is sensitive people often partner up with other sensitive people. So then you breed sensitive children, And they get a double gene. And it's very common that when you're highly sensitive, You're also more anxious. But of course, You're also very empathetic and very aware of other people's feelings. So there's many gifts that come with it, But the challenging part is the anxiety. And then of course, The other big piece is social media and technology and the fact that we get news at our fingertips. So the moment there's a school shooting or a terrorist attack, We know about it instantly, Everyone's talking about it. And so it creates a fear based culture. And then social media creates such pressure and I have two teenagers as well at Lakeview. So the whole Instagram phenomenon and how much pressure that puts on kids that we didn't have to go through. We were in high school experiencing that pressure, But we could come home and take a break from it all. And now it just follows them home because it's on their phone and they're checking it all the time. So then would you say that anxiety has grown over the years because of all of these things? So it wasn't the same as it was, Let's say 10, 20, 30 years ago. So you're saying that the social media, Instagram, All these things are creating more anxious kids? Yeah, I think we've got a combination happening. I think, Yes, We've got higher rates had we been able to identify it better before, But we're also much better at identifying it now. And then I also think parents, The way we parent today is very much in a very connected way. We're very attuned to our children. So we're much more in touch with their feelings and this is wonderful. But then also sometimes as parents, We project our own anxieties onto our children. So previous generations, It was more like, Okay, Go outside for the day, Off you go, Come back at dinner. It wasn't check in on your cell phone and let me know where you are. It was very much more of an independent style of play. And now we're constantly monitoring our children and not giving them as much freedom and that's our own fear. And so in that sense, We are perpetuating it as well. That was something I had on my notes. I'm like, Helicopter parents, Stop, Right? We are. And when we're on our kids, We don't let them be who they are. And that was one of the things that I feel like is very true, Which is what you just said. If we have anxiety, Then these kids in our household are going to pick up on our anxiety just because they're living with us and then we act in anxious ways that makes them anxious. So that was one of the questions I had. So it sounds like you're agreeing with my theory here that it's like, No, We have to change as parents and get ourselves as healthy as possible. That then trickles down to our children. Would you agree? One of the questions I ask parents often is, Does your child take the public bus? I think depending on your neighborhood, But usually around age 12, It should be fine for your child to take the public bus on their own. And so many kids have never taken a bus before. And I think back, I grew up in England as a child and at age eight, I was taking the public train home from school and we had to walk to the train station and then we would all go our different routes to whichever train we were taking. And I was getting on a train by myself at age eight. So things like that have really changed as well. Very much so. And I think it depends on the country, But I know we had a foreign exchange student from Austria a couple of years ago and what he was allowed to do and what we do in the United States was night and day. And he was 16. And I thought, Wow, You can do all that or just feels much more free and not so controlling of our kids, At least in the United States. That's how I feel like we are here. So thank you. Okay. You ready for all my questions? I have a giant list. I'm going to fire these questions at you. Okay, So someone in the close group had said that they have a five-year-old with anxiety that results in anger. They can't turn it around and make it into a positive, Which I would guess we can't do that with a five-year-old anyway. But how can we help younger kids that have anxiety? Right. And then I'll answer that anger part as well. So first of all, We have to have compassion. And for a five-year-old, The prefrontal cortex in the brain, Which is your wise leader part of the brain, Is just starting to develop. And so your prefrontal cortex is what helps you with impulse control, Helps you with self-regulation, Helps you with problem solving. So we can't expect a five-year-old to be able to be rational. And in fact, Until a child is up to about age 25 and a young adult, That part of the brain isn't fully developed. So even our teens that are often taller than us and look like adults, They still don't have a fully developed brain. So we have to get our expectations in line with their stages of development. And we have to remember that the other part of the brain, The amygdala, Which I call the alarm center, Acts on instinct and it goes into fight, Flight, Or freeze when it feels under threat. And it can just be a perceived threat because that's what anxiety is. Anxiety doesn't mean that there's a true emergency happening right now. It means what could happen? I'm worried that this might happen. And so you have a perceived threat, But your body feels it and feels the stress and thinks you're really experiencing danger. And so the instincts protect you when you're going to fight, Flight, Or freeze. And so anger is the fight component. So we need to, First of all, Recognize your child's instincts are at work. That's all. And it's not your child's fault. They're not trying to make life really difficult. They are just feeling under threat for some reason. And then we have to create safety so that they can calm down. So if we get triggered and start yelling back at them, Well then you're just keeping the cycle going because now your child still feels under attack. So we have to be the container for their emotions, Stay grounded, Stay calm, And just let them ride it out because when they're in that state, You can't turn it around. And that's why in my book it's called Surfing the Rurience Wave because it is a wave and you have to let it ride out and then you can do some debriefing and things like that. I love that. So even with a very young child, We're just letting it ride out. And so the anger then, You just kind of address it. It's just that part of the brain, Right? Right. It's not within their control. It is out of their control at that part. And so if we have a better understanding of what's happening to them physiologically, Then we can be more patient and understanding and give them the security and safety that they need so that then those emotions can dissipate and then we can help them to understand what was going on and then the strategies to try to help stop them from going there in the first place. We can, You know, At a time when they're calm, Help them to start learning those strategies. But even when you have all the strategies as adults, You know, Sometimes you just still lose it. And this is what happens to adults with fully developed brains. So compassion is key. It's so true. I think that when we have kids, We should be given a handbook on the developmental stages of kids because as adults, I think that we forget and we look at our children, We expect them to have the same logical mind that we have and reasoning and they don't have it until they're 25. I mean, There's so little. I just had a conversation a week ago with my sister and she's really frustrated. She has two teenagers at home and I said, Your child is not an adult. In fact, He's got hormones and his brain is not formed yet. He can't do what you want him to do. And she was getting so frustrated. So totally agree with what you're saying. Yeah, I read somewhere that for our teenagers, We should have a sign on their bedroom door that says brain under reconstruction. So true. So true. Because that prefrontal cortex, The wise leader brain I just mentioned for the little ones that starts to develop between ages five and seven, That's what happens. And then you get a sweet spot usually around age nine to 11, Nine to 12. But as soon as they hit adolescence, That part of the brain goes under reconstruction. So it's almost like their toddler selves come back and they're really emotional all over again. So now we have teens that have super high emotions, Not just because of hormones, But because their prefrontal cortex is going under reconstruction. Wow, I did not know that. Now how long is it under construction for? I'm just curious. It was. So that's when that major part happens in the teen years. So when they start adolescence, But then it keeps on forming till age 25. But it does a pruning process. So there's actually a chance to kind of grow a second brain. So in the teen years, It's really important to try to have a handle on the anxiety because then you can help develop these neural pathways that are going to have more healthy responses versus the anxious responses to stress. Okay. What I'm going to do is ask you questions about teens. I'm going to get all these child questions out because we're going to work into the teens in a moment. So for people listening, Hang tight. We're going to get to teens because I know a lot of people have teen questions. Okay. Someone asked about their three year old nephew who has signs of anxiety, Picking his nails and asked about the future. A few people actually asked about this. Their child is always talking and obsessed with the future. So actually, Would you be able to tell us, Because a lot of people said, How do I know if my child has anxiety? What are some signs for children, Like early children, Like two years old, Three years old, Really early, Very young children? How do we know that they have anxiety? What are the signs? Right. So I would be cautious to jump to thinking it's anxiety at a really young age. But what I would look at is if you have a child with a very sensitive temperament, A cautious temperament, Then it could, But not necessarily, Mean that they have more anxiety as they get a little bit older. So that's a sign to look out for the biting nails or picking nails, Things like that. We want to try to give them little fidget toys, Other things that they can use so that they learn to self-soothe in different ways. And with our sensitive children that are really young, We just want to help them to explore the world. So we don't want them to avoid everything because anxiety gets fueled by avoidance. So if we're always sheltering and protecting our children and basically, The expression of keeping them in a bubble, Then it will get harder and harder for them to manage life as they get older. But it's okay if they're a slow to warm up child. You can't train that out of them. That's their temperament and that's just how they're wired. So one of my children is a slow to warm up child. So you just know that that's how they are. When you go to say another family's for a barbecue or something, That they're going to be on the periphery a little quieter for the first 20 minutes, But then they're going to start to engage. Or then at that point you can help them engage, Bring out a soccer ball or do whatever it is. But we want to show them that it's okay and that they don't need to hem back forever. So I would just say to use gentle encouragement, But I wouldn't want anybody to listen to this and go out there and go, Okay, I'm taking my three year old and we're going to push him to do this and push her to do that. It's got to be gradual so that we don't have their alarm bells ringing, But we also just want to keep giving them lots of different experiences so that they get comfortable with new things. So are children even diagnosed with anxiety at very young ages or is it a guess? Yeah, I'm not a psychologist so I don't do diagnosis. As a counselor we do impressions. But anxiety disorders, I don't think I've ever seen one diagnosed in a really young child. It would be more once they hit school age that you start to see that. Usually you have a psychosocial assessment done that looks at the whole child and their learning style. And then during that psychoeducational assessment, The psychologist may notice that there's some anxiety present and talking to the parents, Realize there's anxiety and then add that in as a diagnosis as well. So someone had written in about they were a mom and they were highly anxious when their child was young and they're very concerned now that their child has picked up on her anxiety and the child was two. So what would you say to that? Yeah, So there is a genetic link with anxiety. So it does often run in families. Again, You're looking to see if your child's highly sensitive and that could be an indicator. And your child's too. So if your child's having separation anxiety, That's normal, Right? That is what we expect a two year old to experience. We don't want them running off to strangers. And so it's okay if they're not wanting to leave you. Here in Canada, Quite often people start preschool at age three on a very part time basis. And some of the children will run into the school and some will be crying and some will be clinging to their parents. But that's typical in what we still expect. But then we would hope that for three year old, Four year old in preschool, That once they get comfortable and an attachment is formed with the teacher, That they would then be able to separate from the parent for an hour or two. So it's that kind of thing, Just giving them little experiences where they have to start trusting in the bigger world, But in a very gradual way. Here's the thought that I had when you were saying that. I wonder if parents of today are really looking for anything and throwing a label at it, Whether it be ADHD or anxiety or something's wrong with my kid. Do you find that as a therapist that works with children? Well, I actually am a huge believer in assessment. I can't say that strongly enough because my kind of opposite fear is when people say, I don't want to label my child and I really don't like the word label because it implies that we're putting children kind of in a box. When really what we're doing is we're getting informed data that's very standardized. We're not guessing, It's using standardized testing to determine if children have ADHD or a learning disability or an anxiety situation, Whatever it might be. The more information we have, The better we can help our child so that we can make a better fit with the environment. If we have a child who has ADHD, Then we will know to expect certain things and to create structures because that will be harder for them and we can set them up better for success and same with the autism spectrum as well. So I'm definitely a huge proponent of assessment. Just like if your child was having a hard time hearing or seeing, You would take them for their hearing test or their vision test and then you would get the information to give them the tools they need to be successful. And to me, That's exactly what a psychoeducational assessment does. So I guess it's a pendulum thing where you could go one way or the other and some people are like, There's no way I'm getting my child assessed, But meanwhile their child thinks something's really wrong with them and their self-esteem starts to go down. And then there's other people who maybe are looking too much to a diagnosis to try to make sense of their child. So there's a balance, But definitely if you've got a concern, I think it's good to follow your gut and meet with a psychologist who can do that assessment for you and help you understand your child better. I agree with you a hundred percent to get the child assessed. It just seems in my practice, I have parents that will come in and say, I think that there's something wrong with my son. He comes home and goes right to his room and I don't know and da, Da, Da. And I said, After hearing more about him, I realized he's just an introvert and that's how he recharges. And then he eventually comes out and has dinner and goes on with his day. But she was really concerned because he was going to his room and I thought, Is he an introvert? And after meeting him, He and I had a discussion and I said, He's just an introvert. So I find, And I have a lot of other clients that have come in and really concerned about their kids and I'll just say things like, Well, That's what boys do. And oh, Really? I find that sometimes parents are very quick and get so afraid that something's wrong. And again, I am not saying not to get a child assessed if you really feel like something's wrong. But in my experience, I also find sometimes parents are very quick to jump and think something's wrong when they just might be an introverted kid or they might be, Like you said, Like a very sensitive kid and that's just how they are. And there's nothing quote unquote wrong with them. That's just who they are. Definitely. Understanding your child's temperament, It's a journey and it takes years to really fully understand. But absolutely, I couldn't agree more that introverts especially are very misunderstood and they can be very social beings, But they need to recharge their batteries by having alone time. Yeah. So I mean, I've just had a few kids or parents that have come in and very concerned about their kids. And I'm like, Well, We'll talk about it, I'm like, No, That's just a boy or that's an introvert or that's just what kids do and wait and that will change and they do change and it's okay. So anyway, Thank you. Okay. How do we help children of divorce that are experiencing anxiety? And the rest of the question was on how to eliminate shame associated with it so they feel safe to talk. I hear this question all the time, But this was actually written in the closed group too. So how do we help kids? Well, The number one rule of course for families who are experiencing divorce is for the co-parenting to be as smooth as possible. So no matter what issues the adults have with each other to put those aside for the sake of your children, Because I love the analogy that it's as though you're all in a canoe together and each parent is on one end of the canoe and the children are in the middle. And if the parents can have good communication and be nice to each other and not speak badly about each other, Then it's as though the water's calm and the children in the middle of the boat will be fine. But if the parents have a lot of anger towards each other and say a lot of disparaging comments, Then it's as though that boat is rocking and the children in the middle get seasick. And that's what happens is it really does affect the children when the parents aren't able to show that they can be kind and respectful to each other because every child is made up of half of each parent. So if you're talking badly about the other parent, That child feels it inside. And so of course that's going to create anxiety because they are going to have a lot of worries and a lot of what if thoughts and just even the transition between homes and things like that is going to create a lot of angst and needs to be done with as much support and smooth communication as possible. What about, And I'm thinking off the top of my head, So many of my clients though, One of either the husband or the wife will not talk to their ex and not only will they not talk to their ex, They then share, Which drives me crazy to hear this with the children, How much they hate the ex, Which of course drives up the child's anxiety. But how do you then deal with a child that has that kind of anxiety where there is a parent throwing the other parent under the bus, But then the kid now has experiencing anxiety. How do we as parents help that child? Well I think that's where we teach emotional intelligence and that's where we explain to the child the reason your mom or your dad says these things is because they're really angry. It's not about you and this is an adult problem, But the one thing we know for sure is that I love you so much and your mom or dad loves you so much and the kind of love that a parent and a child share never goes away versus the love between us as parents. That's more like a friendship that can break up and so it's different, But the love we have is never going to go away. And trying to reinforce those kinds of messages and teaching them about emotions and how people say things for what reasons and helping them if possible to depersonalize it a little. It's never easy and I think parents just have to be so incredibly aware of how damaging it is when somebody speaks in a bad way about the other parent to the child or within the child's hearing distance. What about the child that then experiences the shame with sharing with the really balanced parent? So the parent that feels like they want the child to share, But the child feels shame because they feel like they are betraying the other parent, How do we help the child to open up? Yeah, And it's creating that safety and maybe sometimes it's not safe. Every situation is so different, But really it's about just connection with your child. I mean everything to me comes down to connection with your child and that has to be the foundation of everything and that goes through the teen years as well and to me it's absolutely crucial. So I would just be working on the connection all the time and then seeing what your child feels comfortable sharing. You don't want to pry open too much because maybe that child isn't really comfortable sharing. So I think it would need to be the child sharing with you and then just creating that safety and strong relationship for them so they feel they have an anchor. Gotcha, Thank you. Okay, Moving on more to the teen years now. How do we help our older teens with anxiety, Especially the ones that think they know it all and we're trying to offer them suggestions and they don't want to hear it because they're in that developmental stage. They push back, They don't want to hear anything, But yet they have anxiety. So what do we do with our teens? Well first of all, We need to name it. They need to understand what it is so that they don't feel ashamed about how they're feeling and if we externalize it and give it a name like the worries or anxiety or they can call it Fred or Theodore, Whatever they want to call it, But if they can recognize that anxiety is kind of something that comes over us and if they can tell the difference between their anxiety voice and then their more rational voice, It will help them to be able to use their strategies. One of the big strategies with anxiety is first of all to ask, Is this a true emergency or is this a false alarm? Because as I mentioned earlier, When your body's stressed, The amygdala in your brain, The alarm area just acts by feeling. It doesn't think. So as soon as you feel stressed, It just automatically believes you're in danger and puts you into fight, Flight or freeze. So if you can talk to yourself and go, It's okay, This isn't a true emergency. Yes, I'm a little bit worried about starting a new school or whatever it might be, But it's not a 911 emergency, Then that can help turn that amygdala alarm off. And then the other strategy is to use facts and evidence and to look around and go, Okay, I'm walking into this new school. Other kids are walking into this new school. None of them are running away and bolting or looking like they're about to faint. So I can do this, I'll get through it. And so just giving themselves some positive self-talk, But using facts and evidence and things like that, They like to always back up everything with facts and evidence. So why not use that to the advantage of being able to go, Okay, Is this really that dangerous or is your mind giving you all these what if thoughts about what might happen and they haven't even actually happened yet? But what about the kids that don't want to hear from us as parents? The kids that go, I know mom, Don't tell me I know everything. And yet we see that they're suffering and we want to help, But they don't want to hear it. What can we do as parents to help them? Yeah, Those are the toughest cases because as we know, Somebody really needs to want help to receive help. But I would say to then just try to work on the avoidance piece. So trying to get them out and about. And if there's something that worries them or scares them, Again, In a step by step way, Trying to get them to move in that direction. Or maybe they're even scared of traveling or something like that. So that's something you as a family can do to try and get them out there traveling a bit. Maybe they're scared of spiders and you can go camping and get them out into the woods a little bit. But we need to always be thinking in terms of how to try and get them out there so that they're actually having to do what we call exposure therapy, Where they're facing their fears. Okay. And what about the teens that someone wrote in this question, How do you take on the college application process and other deadlines without exacerbating their anxiety? And I just had this experience with my son who's trying to get into a certain college and needs a higher ACT score. And if it were me, I would be taking a bazillion practice tests before I took the ACT and he's taking one four times a week. And I'm like, Do you think you might want to take more? And he goes, Mom, You're making me stress. Stop asking me. I'm doing it my own way. But I'm thinking if you don't get a higher score in the ACT, You're not going to get in the college that you really want to get into. But someone had asked this exact question. So what would you say to that? How do we help them? Yeah. Sometimes it works to do a pros and cons sheet with your child, Your teen, To help them to kind of look at it a little bit more objectively. And for example, If I do the mock exams 50 times versus four times, What are the pros and cons? But ultimately, Teens, They are their own person and they're little adults that have their minds pretty set. And so we can't actually force them to do it our way. But we can give them guidance and coaching and try to point out the different benefits. And then ultimately, They're finding their own path. That's been my experience with teens that we've just got to show them the different options and try and give them guidance to take the one that we think is going to help them the most. And in the end, They're going to be the ones that make their decisions. And I think that's so hard for parents because we think, Oh my gosh, If they only did this, Then they would get what they want, But they're not listening to us. So it's hard. That's a hard one, But I agree with you. And then they actually have to learn consequences if they don't get what they want and they haven't listened to us. All right. How do we help teens become aware of triggers and how can they self-soothe? Again, I think that they need to want to learn how to help. It sounds to me like I'm looking at all these questions that people had written in. When they hit their teenagers, It seems like the way that we help them is when they come to us and say, Hey, Can you help me, Mom or dad? But if they're not doing that, There really isn't a way to force this on them. Yeah. And sometimes through a little bit of education that we can do very kind of short and quick. We can get little snippets in there. So sometimes we could say things like, Oh, Sounds like that might be your anxiety voice talking, And then just leave it because they don't want to hear that. But you just give them a quick little moment of awareness. Or when there's triggers, Obviously in the moment you can't talk to them about it. But when they're calm later on, Maybe we can bring them a hot chocolate or a cup of tea or something to show that we're concerned that they've just had a blow up. And then just try to reconnect with them and see if they will talk a little bit about what just happened and then help them process their emotions. And again, If it's anxiety based, Talk to them about, You know, Sounds like that might have been a little bit of anxiety and that's okay. Everybody gets anxiety sometimes. Let's think about some things that could help you in the future. And maybe at that moment, They're more willing to discuss because usually with that whole idea of the wave, When they're having their meltdown or whatever words you want to use to describe it, They're not of course going to be able to talk to you. But then afterwards is usually a time where they're a little bit more vulnerable and ready to reconnect. And that might be where you get a moment to have them have a little bit of insight and realize what was going on. And slip in a couple of sentences that might make them want more. Like let's, We can talk about a breathing technique or mindfulness. Maybe that might help you, You know. And it's wonderful apps, So many apps for guided meditations. And you say, You know what, I just came across this and thought you might like it and maybe there's a chance to have them be open to that. Yeah. This is why it's such a shame to me that it's not a requirement in schools to offer or to require kids to take meditation, Mindfulness, Yoga, This kind of thing, Because there's so many AP classes and advanced classes. It's like these kids need to learn how to be healthy in the world first and foremost. So that's for another conversation. But last question. How can we be supportive of our teens yet when they're suffering from anxiety, We want to keep them accountable? So how do we do that? Like how can we support them because of the anxiety, But yet if they're not getting things done this, Someone else can ask that question. I think you kind of answered it, But how do we support them and yet steer them without raising their anxiety? Right. And I, You know, When you asked that question, I thought to myself, Maybe an example would be the child who's refusing to go to school or refusing to go to school in the day that they have to give an oral presentation, But we still need to hold them accountable. So I think then, You know, We help advocate for them. We speak to the school counselor, We speak to their teacher, We explain, You know, My child's experiencing anxiety, But we also want them to complete the work. How can we do this? Is there a different way they could present? So sometimes it's a matter of just trying to find a different route to get to the same end outcome so that we're still holding them accountable, But they may not be able to do it in necessarily the same way that was originally asked. So we don't want to do it directly. Usually, You're going to get resistance, Right? Right. Right. It's going to be a roundabout way and we sneak little things in. I like that. That's great. Thank you. Well, Again, I could sit and talk to you for a few more hours. This was so good. And I know I'm going to get more questions. So if you wouldn't mind, I hope to have you back on in the next few months. Yes, We need a part two, Anxiety, Teen and youth anxiety part two. Thank you so much. And how, Sharon, Would people find you? And I know everybody, By the way, She has a free offer for all of us. So would you mind telling us about not only your free offer, But do you have anything else going on and how can people find you and more about you? Sure. So the best way is my website, Which is my name, SharonSelby. Com. And that's S-E-L-B-Y. And on my website right there, You will find a free ebook called Eight Common Mistakes to Avoid When Your Child is Anxious. Because sometimes the way that we parent our anxious child isn't intuitive. And the things we do that are by intuition actually reinforce the anxiety and make it stronger. So this ebook will help you to just be sure that you're handling your child's anxiety in a way that's not strengthening their anxiety. And then secondly, I have a children's book called Surfing the Variance Wave for children ages five to 10. And it's a children's story that incorporates strategies that are all based on CBT, Cognitive behavioral therapy, Which is the gold standard for treating anxiety. And so this is the best way to be preventative, Be proactive, Or if your child is already having a lot of anxiety, To help them with it. So it's a full resource for parents and professionals and for children and comes with a digital discussion guide with questions and explanations to help you to really explain the concepts to your children. And it has fun activities so that they really enjoy the book as well. And that's what I use in my work with children and all the groups that I run for children with anxiety as well. And then I write a blog through my website usually once a week and very often on the topic of anxiety in children and teens. This is perfect. I'm just realizing the timing of all this. This is such perfect timing with all these kids going back to school and college. And I mean, Perfect timing. I'm so glad that we're putting this podcast out now and that you were on with us. Thank you. You have some great resources. I love it. There's a lot on my website. Yeah. Absolutely. There's over 250 articles on my blog and yeah, I've written a lot on anxiety. So I hope that's helpful for you. I know it will be. Thank you. I'm going to go and check it out myself. So thank you so much, Sharon, For being on with us today. This has been fabulous. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And we will do a part two. I would love to. Thank you so much. It was such an important topic. So I'm thrilled that we could talk about it today. All right, Everybody, Do not forget to go and check out the San Diego class the evening of Friday, October 12 through Sunday, October 14. You can go to the adult chair. Com forward slash workshops for more information. And you there will find your healthy, Authentic, Loving self. We do a lot of this work over the course of two and a half days. So come join us. I am happy to be seated in my adult chair today with Sharon Selby. Thank you again, Sharon. And I'm Michelle Shelfon. I will see you all next week right here seated firmly in the adult chair. Have a great week, Everybody. Today's podcast is sponsored by Audible. And you can get a free audio book download and a 30 day free trial at www. Audibletrial. Com forward slash the adult chair. And Sharon has recommended this book that she loves. It's called Anxious Kids, Anxious Parents, Seven Ways to Stop the Worry Cycle and Raise Courageous and Independent Children. It's by Lynn Lyons and Reed Wilson, Ph. D. It looks amazing. So thank you for that, Sharon. For listeners of the adult chair, Remember, You can get this book for free. I love free and this is a free audio book download at www. Audibletrial. Com forward slash the adult chair.