Thanks for joining us here on Pretty Spiritual where we're attempting the unthinkable about how to navigate this messy,
Beautiful,
Imperfect life with spiritual tools,
Principles,
And our own personal stories.
So we're not experts,
We're not religious,
We're definitely silly.
We're honest,
Real,
And willing to share.
So join us as we connect,
Bond,
And grow together.
Hey everybody,
We're so glad you're here.
Before you start listening to this podcast episode today,
We just want to let you know that it is a tender topic,
Self-destruction and self-harm,
And it might be triggering for some people.
So just know that we talk about some tender issues and go into it with grace.
And Pony's going to provide a resource.
Before we even get started,
I want everyone to know that there's a crisis text line.
All you have to do is text 741-741.
They have trained crisis counselors that can help you move from a hot moment to a cool,
Calm one.
They'll teach you how to do that.
Or if you want to talk to someone,
You can call 800-273-TALK.
That's 800-273-8255.
Please if you need help or wanting to hurt yourself,
Call someone.
Yeah,
Because we love you.
And until then,
We'll all talk about what we've experienced coming up right now.
Hi spiritual friends.
Welcome back to Pretty Spiritual Podcast.
My name is Ella.
Hi,
Ella.
And to my left,
I have.
.
.
Lindsay Pony.
I am to the left,
It turns out.
Hi,
Lindsay Pony.
And to the right.
Hi,
I'm Annie.
Hi,
Annie.
Hi,
Pony.
We are going to talk about self-destructive behavior.
And all three of us have struggled with addictive and compulsive behaviors.
You know,
Behaviors that I find myself doing that cause me harm,
Maybe in the long run,
But in the moment,
They seem to offer some kind of relief.
And if you are struggling with self-destructive behavior patterns yourself,
Because they bring that momentary relief of distraction or checking out or whatever you're getting out of them,
You're in good company because a lot of us struggle.
You know,
These behaviors can range from self-harm,
Which is the medical term used to describe the act of deliberately inflicting pain and damage to your body,
All the way to behaviors we do that sabotage our integrity or get in the way of our happiness and growth.
So that's the kind of broad topic for today.
And as always,
I want to reiterate that none of us are experts of any kind,
Nor are we medical professionals,
That we will post all the resources we can find for any people who might be struggling with self-harm.
Please let us know how we can help you get whatever help and support you need.
We really want to show up for you in whatever way we can.
And the way we'll show up for you in this episode is just by sharing our own experiences and letting people know what spiritual tools have guided us away from harming ourselves and hopefully toward a sustainable kind of self-soothing for pain or anxiety or overwhelm that we all need to get away from sometimes.
You know,
Often when we engage in self-harmful or self-destructive behaviors,
We are taking extreme measures to distract ourselves from the challenges of our daily life.
And we're attempting to release ourselves from what feels like unbearable pain.
To everyone who's listening,
Maybe it's really obvious what that place is in your life.
It's dramatic and it gets your attention on a regular basis.
Or maybe it's a more kind of subtle thing that feels like a total revelation when a spiritual teacher or a therapist points it out.
So great to have those people in our lives who can really help us see the stuff that's so hard for us to see just by ourselves.
In this conversation,
I want to include all of these behaviors,
You know,
Self-sabotage,
The way you're harming yourself,
If that causes injury to your integrity or the self-destructive behaviors you do habitually that cause harm to your relationships,
Your self-esteem,
Your sense of self.
The ways that we distract ourselves from life that seem to give us relief in the moment,
But in the long term end up causing harm.
So that's what we're going to talk about.
All of these ways that we undermine ourselves,
We sabotage our well-being,
Integrity,
Future happiness,
Self-esteem,
Financial security,
Really relate to that one,
Or physical bodies.
And I think when we zoom out of this phenomenon,
We can probably all find a way that we relate to it.
What I'm actually trying to do in a misguided way is to soothe myself.
And so it's my hope that in the tools section,
We can offer some support for not just stopping hurting ourselves,
But some ways that we can even actually reach for a kind of soothing that has longevity and is sustainable.
So with that wordy introduction,
Ms.
Lindsey Poney,
What comes up for you around this topic?
What does self-destructive behavior mean to you historically in your life?
And maybe what does it look like for you today?
I really remember feeling as though in the ways that I was being.
.
.
That's why I didn't know I was being destructive.
I was really confused at why I would do the things that I would do.
And I remember when someone shared about what they were doing that I was like,
Wow,
Oh my God,
I'm not alone.
And that was so useful.
So I'm really grateful for this topic and this conversation.
I think there's so much to say historically and I think even looking into the future,
I'm really curious in what ways am I going to be destructive with myself?
In what ways am I going to try and check out and distract myself?
Yeah,
This just feels like a lifelong experience that it could be.
So I'm hopeful today.
I'm really hopeful today because in the past,
Things were different and it's different today.
And just thank God.
And so I'm just really grateful and I think everyone who came before me who normalized behaviors and things that were going on that were very of the shadow side,
Deep and secret,
Who are brave enough and bold enough to start talking about this because it really opened the door and really set the stage because once one person starts talking,
We go,
Oh my God,
Okay,
I can start talking too.
So where do I want to start?
In what ways have I been destructive?
My God,
I feel like every level,
Every facet,
I have attempted or done it or tried it.
And so where to really begin?
I was thinking about self-destruction and imploding or exploding in the ways that I explode by.
.
.
I was just thinking about when I was younger and I had such big feelings and I did not have coping skills and the examples around me didn't know how to cope.
And I started slamming doors.
I remember that.
And breaking windows and breaking things,
Punching things,
Squeezing things,
Punching pillows,
Screaming into pillows.
And it was kind of like this relief.
I talk about that starting there because it was like the lighter form.
Those can even be kind of almost a health,
It seems almost healthy in a way to.
.
.
I needed to express and move these feelings and emotions through myself.
And I really relate to self-sabotage in the way that I hear the word and I go,
Oh,
That is happening for me.
I am sabotaging myself and the topic of self-destruction and self-harm for me really means it's more on an emotional level currently.
Before I just would drink.
And it's interesting in our drinking culture,
We drink when we're happy,
We drink when we're sad,
We drink and we get together and we drink.
And this is a celebration.
And I think it's really important for me to say that and address that.
I don't participate in that anymore.
And I feel very,
Very lucky that I have been able to go against the grain when it comes to that type of thinking.
And I am.
.
.
I feel like I have escaped and clawed my way out of hell.
I really believed that that was my solution at the time.
And that's for another time because I'm really lucky today.
And isn't that funny to say,
Oh,
I don't do that anymore.
And now it's really wallowing in self-deprecating emotions of shame and worthlessness.
So when we talk about exploding and imploding in the ways we self-destruct,
Now more is imploding,
Burn it down,
Destroy myself.
And it's hard to recognize.
It's hard to see that I am the one doing this.
Self-inflicted emotional pain that can't be seen,
It can cause a lot of damage.
And then it also,
I think,
Has a lot of longevity.
When we think about self-harm in the form of cutting or other physical things that can be done,
It's hard to hide those scars.
But the people don't really see internally the damage and pain that even I don't see that I'm the one inflicting this.
And so it becomes a very difficult road to navigate and to become aware,
Like you were talking about,
Of these behaviors that are going on within myself.
And even the progress of healing is really hard to gauge.
Self-harm just like Ella was talking about,
It seems to be a conduit to release emotional stress,
But it's short term,
It's fleeting.
And the emotional damage that is left here can seem really overwhelming.
I know for myself,
Identifying my beliefs and my concepts of somehow I'm relieving emotional stress by wallowing in my emotions.
Just as we're talking about this right now,
I'm trying to understand this and I can't.
Even though I'm right here in the middle of it.
So this is my beginning,
This is my pathway to getting more self-awareness around my main ways of self-destruction are really confusing in a way of like learned helplessness where I am the one that needs to show up and help myself in regulating my emotions and I feel like somebody else is supposed to show up and help me.
So there's a lot to unpack in there and I'm sure that in many more episodes,
It's all connected.
So that's as far as I can get with that.
I love it so much.
Thank you.
Okay.
Thanks,
Pony.
So I was thinking about all the stuff I related to all those behaviors you're describing doing as a child to express anger or frustration and I was thinking that's so cool that we know how to express that stuff,
Like let it out of our bodies and our hearts and not hurt ourselves but then we forget or we learn that there's some other thing that we think will look better to other people or be more accepted or not get us in trouble or whatever it is because I'm like those are such great tools.
Yeah.
Break some plates.
Like scream into a pillow.
If you're in the middle of nowhere or in a walk-in in the wilderness,
You can yell as loud as you want and that's really nice.
The release,
Right?
And then we put on all these masks because it's not acceptable anymore and now I'm demolishing my insides so I'm really grateful for this topic so that I can see what's happening here.
So thank you so much.
Yay.
Thank you,
Pony.
You can squeeze a pillow.
Miss Annie,
Will you please tell us what comes up for you around self-destructive behavior and your history with that and what it looks like today?
Yes.
Thank you,
Ella.
Thank you,
Pony.
What a miracle that we can talk about this stuff.
I was sharing with these women before we started recording when Ella sent the template,
This topic made me really sad and I was thinking about how when we as humans are in such pain or internal conflict that this outlet,
Whatever your version of self-harm looks like,
That it's actually helpful and it's a tool.
So if you're in this place,
We love you and we can all relate.
My self-harm,
Historically,
The big one was with alcohol and it was unconscious.
I didn't set out to be harmful or destructive to myself.
I just really loved it.
But over time,
So it was at first enjoyable and then it seemed to bring relief,
Although conflict and then it became incredibly destructive.
But separately and after I had been free from alcohol for three years,
I want to share some things that I learned from my therapist about the window of tolerance.
So when I started working with her,
I was about three years at a point of not having drinking and being on this spiritual path.
But my window of tolerance was so low.
It was so low.
It was like I was this overly tight,
Strong instrument and any motion or disruption would just cause the string to snap and whip around.
I was in this place where I didn't have any tools to deal with this.
And so I came up with tools that were really self-harming.
And if you're not familiar with this term,
Being in the window of tolerance means being moderated emotionally and with a balanced nervous system.
So it doesn't mean that you feel groovy all the time,
But it just means that you have an internal resilience so that when things happen,
When emotions come up,
When good or bad things go down,
When you get over excited,
Your nervous system and your emotional state has a strong enough foundation that you can kind of roll with it.
Like your boat is wide enough that it can roll on the waves.
Instead of any wave that comes,
You just capsize.
So I had an incredibly small window of tolerance.
Basically,
Unless everything was A-OK,
I would snap.
Before I started having this healing and moderation and I went outside that window of tolerance,
It was unbearable to me.
And so I came up with a tool to help with my dysregulation and it was binging and purging.
And I was uncertain if I was going to directly address that because it's very personal and at times it's still very tender.
But also I realized that it's something that I'm not the only person who's had this experience and perhaps talking about it in a way of it's a tool that I used to use.
And here's some ways that I've learned how to no longer need that tool.
Maybe somebody else can get some hope or a solution because of the binging and purging.
I started going to a therapist and also bigger picture stuff.
It wasn't just that I was wildly anxious.
It was hard to be inside my brain and my body,
But I was really ashamed about it.
But it also worked.
You know,
It did.
It worked for me.
And when I would hit this place of extreme dysregulation,
It was so hard on my body and it was so hard on my nervous system,
But also calmed me down in some strange way.
So as I worked with my therapist,
I learned really,
Really slowly.
Oh my God,
It was way slow.
I learned tools that helped me notice this dysregulation as it was coming on.
So like the little miniature key signals that I used to just steamroll over so then I could start to bring in tools to regulate myself before I went outside that window of tolerance.
You know,
The guitar string snap,
The boat cap size,
And then I would have no other choice but to binge and purge.
And which I said,
As for me,
That was the solution.
You know,
I'd get to this place and I'm like,
This is the only option.
I also want to share that this behavior,
The bingeing and purging,
Since I started working with the therapist,
Decreased radically over the five and a half years that I still work with her.
And then it just became every once in a while,
But it was still in my toolbox.
Do you know what I mean?
It was buried at the bottom and maybe it'd be six months,
But like if something really flipped me out,
Like I would pull for that tool again.
And it felt beyond my control,
Essentially.
And what I want to share is that it's been over a year now since I have used this tool and it has very much to do with healing from trauma that was like buried so deep in my body and was this dark,
Deep,
Sad pocket that this healing work has kind of brought into the light.
And as that has had some sunlight shining on it,
I really haven't thought of bingeing and purging as a tool,
Which to me is a miracle because it just seemed like a thing that was a just,
I was,
It was,
It was like a thunderstorm.
I can't stop it.
You know,
There's thunder and it's not for me being great or,
You know,
Triumphing over this bad thing that I used to do.
So I just really want to express that this isn't a shameful thing to be in that place.
If you have a tool that is hurting you,
Maybe it's just because you haven't built up other resources yet.
So and I couldn't talk myself out of it.
You know,
I couldn't use my intellectual prowess to,
To like lift myself up by my bootstraps and just stop doing this thing.
I really needed help to build just some tools to bring my,
To bring my nervous system back into regulation and then start to supplant that old tool with some more like tools that will actually nourish me and help me.
So I'll share those when we get into the tools because at the beginning there were really simple things that anybody can do kind of no matter where you are with self-harming.
So that's all.
Thank you,
Annie.
That was so helpful.
It was just reminding me too of I remember it was in between practice periods at Tassahara so I'd been really like sitting and being with this really uncomfortable behavior.
I couldn't stop doing it.
And at that point in time I was doing a lot of binging.
I would wake up at night and eat.
I would binge on whatever sugar I could find.
I couldn't stop.
I just could not stop.
And what I was just thinking of when Annie was finishing her share was I had gone to see my family for the holidays and we were in Joshua Tree.
And I remember this long drive with my mom and she and I were having a really hard time with each other.
I was just,
I felt like I was on fire.
You know,
Like I was just so uncomfortable in every part of my life.
And I remember in that same kind of way that my brain can sometimes be a servant to my heart or my spirit that I can use intellect to frame something in a way that feels emotionally real and acceptable.
So what happened was I could see how all of this knowledge of my behavior,
I was with just the like knowing the self-knowledge part,
I was like a dog chasing my tail and that I needed compassion to be part of that equation.
Otherwise,
I would never stop.
And it was this kind of moment of like clarity and in some way that happened in my brain,
But that was able to carry a message into my heart also.
You know,
These days my behavior with food is different.
My bottom lines with food are that I don't starve and I don't binge.
And it's been many years since I engaged in either of those behaviors,
Which is such a gift,
Especially if you're someone who's struggling or in the thick of self-harm using food.
We've all been there,
The three of us.
And the other thing that I want to talk about because it is true,
It's a cause of great suffering in my life and because it's mostly a secret.
I mean,
It's not a secret,
But it's not something I talk about openly,
Which is that ever since I was a little kid,
I have been picking my scalp.
I learned actually just a couple of years ago.
I thought it was like,
I thought it was a personal kind of failing slash fault.
I didn't think it was something that other people would understand or relate to.
People who had witnessed it certainly didn't give me the impression that other people would be generous in understanding what was going on for me.
So I learned from a friend actually,
She was talking about hair pulling.
And those are two specific kinds of behaviors that fit into this broader bucket of what are called excoriation disorders.
I didn't know that was even a thing.
And the other way that those disorders are being talked about that I've seen is as BFRBs,
Which are body focused repetitive behaviors.
For me,
This started when I was really,
Really young.
It is a behavior that gave me some kind of stress relief during times of stress or like Annie was talking about emotional dysregulation when I kind of needed something to take the edge off of the events and circumstances of my life that were way beyond my control.
You know,
When we were kids,
My cousin and I both used to do this and she seems to have outgrown the behavior.
And for me,
It's something that is still very much a part of my life and it is hurts.
I pick my scalp until it bleeds.
I do it until like any pressure on my head is really painful.
I'm like really hurting myself.
And the really interesting part about it is that it is such an unconscious behavior that it has taken all of this time for me to even really have sustained awareness of the fact that I'm engaging in it.
It feels really like it's part of me,
You know,
Like it's so deep down in me that I don't know how I'll ever be able to not do it to myself.
And at the same time,
I,
You know,
For me,
This is a behavior that soothed me at one point in my life.
And it does that with less and less efficacy these days.
And now there's more and more of it that feels self destructive,
But I can't seem to stop.
What's great about having all of this other experience with habits and behaviors that have changed dramatically is that even though this feels,
The way I used to talk about my relationship with food,
And I really felt this way and you know,
Now this feeling is kind of applied to picking my scalp,
Which is that it felt like looking at the sun,
That it felt like it was too big to even look at that it was going to like hurt me just to look at it.
And I think Annie is going to be sharing a tool pretty soon that has a lot to do with that,
But I get to rely on my own past experience with these kinds of behaviors to remember that things change that I can actually change these really,
Really,
Really deeply rooted patterns and behaviors and it takes work and perseverance.
But in the moment,
It's just trying for this moment and that that part of it makes it hopeful and makes it feel like there is possibility that this could change.
And it also reminds me that if I'm just looking at the behavior in this moment,
There's nothing insurmountable about that,
You know,
And even if I can't stop in this moment,
It's just this moment,
You know,
There's going to be another one really soon.
Maybe I can try again in that one.
Now that we've shared our personal histories with self-destructive behavior,
We want to focus on the spiritual tools that are helping us not only to stop hurting ourselves,
But to actually self-soothe in the moments when we feel like hurting ourselves is the only way to get relief.
So on that note,
Miss Pony,
What tools are you working with?
I was wondering if all of a sudden we could do a list of self-harming behavior.
I think it's helpful to name some more.
So one that I was thinking about is stealing.
That's a self-harming behavior,
One that I'm quite familiar with for whatever reasons.
And he helped me label it absorbing.
Feels so much more gentle,
Gentle,
Doesn't it?
Any others?
Hustling.
Makes me think of the same kind of where we're like really busy in all these different areas trying to fit the pieces together and make it where I do that frequently with money when I'm trying to afford things that I can't afford.
Gotta hustle,
Gotta get that money,
Gotta make that money so I can get that thing.
Lying about being okay.
Stealing and dishonesty in general.
There's the physical self-harm in all its manifestations,
Whether it's cutting or putting yourself in dangerous situations,
Staying in an abusive relationship,
Which I just want to say isn't something that you're doing wrong.
And if that is the case for you,
We love you and we want you to get help and you can email us and we can send you some resources.
But it is also a very harmful place to put your body and your psyche.
I was just thinking about all of the other kinds of self-defeating relationship behaviors where we way overshare.
I've definitely been one of those people.
Or shut ourselves down and don't make contact with ourselves possible to other people because we feel overwhelmed or unsafe or whatever it is.
I was just thinking recently when I was driving and I was looking at a text message and I felt reckless and I liked it.
I was like,
I don't care if I hit this divider.
And then I thought,
Wow,
What a harmful way for me to drive,
Not only obviously for myself but other people on the road,
But just those moments of dysregulation and then wanting it to express as this dangerous or reckless driving or being in the world.
It's great because this is bringing me back to what when Lindsay was talking about all of those anger or frustration expressing activities that we partook in as kids.
It's like,
How can we find a way to feel and express all this emotion without taking it out on ourselves?
And this has been a really satisfying and relatable way for me to think about depression.
But depression,
I have heard,
Is anger that we don't express that we take out on ourselves.
So unfelt anger gets turned inward and that's what depression is.
And that hurts.
Just not feeling our feelings and not expressing them hurts us.
Thank you,
Lindsay.
That was such a helpful suggestion.
And if we didn't list what you consider to be your self-harming activity,
It doesn't mean that it's not real or it's not a true experience that you're having.
And please let us know because it might feel good for you to share yourself with someone safe,
Honestly,
And it will help us understand how to better and more effectively relate to other people.
So we'd love to hear from you and you can always create a burner account to be anonymous.
Yeah,
You can be anonymous.
Anybody can make any kind of Google account.
Oh,
Right.
I don't know if that's a thing because I know this is really,
Really deep,
Intimate work and we're here with you.
Yes.
Thank you so much for opening up this conversation and talking about all of this.
I just relate so much on the emotional ways that I just self-destruct.
And I take care of little children and I always say,
Tiny body is huge emotions.
Because when you watch a two-year-old who can't express to you what they want or what they need and then you see them go into their tantrum,
I am so grateful to those little teachers because I go,
Oh,
There I am.
And even though I say tiny body is big emotions,
Maybe my body is bigger,
But the emotions are just as big.
And when Annie was talking about being able to pull yourself up by your bootstraps,
I just want to say that that was never real and that there are no bootstraps and that we do this together.
A couple of my tools are that if you want to text with someone,
The crisis text line that we mentioned in the beginning of this episode,
There's also the number that you can call,
Of course.
Those are definitely such a great way.
There are hotlines for all different types of things where there is someone who is trained waiting to talk to you specifically and understands about what you're going through.
And it's just such a huge tool and resource that can seem so hard and so scary to do at the beginning.
And I just recommend that everyone try that.
That's what it means to pick up the phone and call a friend.
But you can call a stranger,
Which I actually find I love to just talk to a stranger because it's so.
.
.
Almost easier.
It's anonymous.
Wow.
And they're trained to help.
They know.
And a lot of times they've actually been through what you're going through,
Which is why they do this volunteer work.
So it's such a beautiful symbiotic relationship.
Oh,
My favorite.
For the tools of this section,
Mental and emotional wellness and training takes so many different forms and different steps,
And it becomes a culmination and integration of all of these little tiny tools.
I don't.
.
.
I'm not sure and I don't know,
But I don't think there's going to be one little thing that is going to be the miracle cure-all for us to stop hurting ourselves.
And that's okay.
There are so many tiny little things that we can do that may seem like right now aren't going to bring instant relief or fixing or instant gratification,
But there are little things that we can do that can be a state change.
Just taking a really nice hot shower or people like baths.
If you have a nice bathtub,
Kudos to you.
I'm mad about my bathroom.
I cannot live and I cannot get better without prayer and meditation.
And I'm so upset to talk about this to you because if you're anything like me,
I was really mad at you for suggesting it.
And if that is where you are,
I relate,
I see you,
I understand,
And I hope that you can begin and take the little steps to just see what it's like to try a little prayer of help,
Help.
That is a prayer.
A minute of meditation of where I sit and I see that I can't breathe right now or that I'm panting or that my whole body is reverberating with emotions I don't know what to do with.
That is meditation.
Simple,
Tiny beginning steps,
Not where it's,
Oh,
I do meditation,
I do these prayers and I get relief,
But the actual experience of attempting these things and having that experience is the tool.
Taking the tool and having a personal experience with it.
Going for a walk,
Calling a friend,
Brushing your hair.
These are little tools where what we're doing is finding a moment to pause and be with and be in the middle of I have a feeling,
I have an emotion,
I don't know what to do,
I'm going to do something else.
This takes a lot of steps and maybe a long time,
But you can try it today.
You can recognize what emotion you're having right now and you can identify it and that is a tool.
That is a beginning instead of just immediately going and punching a wall.
That is what I used to do.
Also okay if that's where you're at,
But it's like that moment before that,
We want to learn how to expand the choice in there of being able to recognize and be with what is here and then have choice in what I do next.
My dear spiritual teacher says what we're doing here is we're really getting to know the heart.
Thank you Pony.
Thanks Pony.
If you're going to punch a wall,
This is just based on my personal experience,
Try for something like plaster or drywall and not for a brick wall because you will break your hand.
She is in karate.
That's true.
She is going to destroy a wall.
Wow what a healthy decision and way that I went and channeled that.
So beautiful.
What a miracle.
It was actually a suggestion.
It's not like I just came to it on my own by the way.
Either way.
You're doing it.
We make our ways together.
Thank you so much Lindsay.
Annie,
Will you share your tools with us please?
Yes.
Thank you Pony so much.
My first statement is that if you are struggling with something self-harming and it is concerning you,
Please be open to professional help.
You don't have to use the same brain that came up with this self-harming tool to talk you out of using the tool.
I have found that it can be pretty circular.
And then the tools I'm going to share are just speaking to my own experience.
And so if they don't make sense for your experience,
There are so many other tools out there.
But this is just specifically to this hyper anxious maxed out nervous system state that I was living in.
And I learned all these from my somatic therapist.
I was in this place where I couldn't even really take in information.
I was functioning and I appeared okay on the outside,
But I was really untethered inside.
And I needed someone to just take me by the hand and slowly,
Slowly teach me this stuff with a lot of patience and a lot of love and not any judgment for the tools that I was using.
So instead of,
You know,
I happen to use my binging and purging tools,
She wouldn't be like,
You shouldn't do that.
I wasn't in control of what was happening.
So to have someone just meet me with the understanding that this was a tool that was actually in my toolbox and then to see,
Oh,
Wow,
I can take this person by the hand.
Like we talk about this a lot of going down instead of just like shouting down instructions,
Going down into the hole with the person and helping them see how to walk out.
And so she came down into the hole with me and just gently started supplanting new tools that at the beginning I was like,
I am far too smart.
These are baby tools.
They're definitely not going to work for me.
I'm too complicated.
And I was wrong.
And I love that Pony shared about working with kids and the little body's big emotions because essentially it was like working with a toddler.
Like I was in this toddler state essentially.
And so the first tool was if I get maxed out,
She helped me come up with the idea of the safe space where I could go to where I have felt really safe and secure.
And this is a moment that really happened.
And I was sitting on my parents porch and the sun was shining.
And it's the childhood home I grew up in that I love.
And my wife was in the room inside behind the front door where I was sitting.
And so I picture myself kind of like backed by this familial love,
But then also this wife love in the sunshine.
And I can draw on that.
I'm like,
Oh,
I'm safe.
You know,
It's okay.
So that's a grounding tool.
When we first started working together five and a half years ago,
My therapist prescribed to me one social engagement a day.
And I was like,
You obviously don't know me because I'm very busy.
And I'm a freelance worker and I need to go drive around to a bunch of places and meet a bunch of people and do a bunch of stuff.
And she's like,
Your capacity is one thing a day.
And I thought,
Like I said,
That was baby stuff.
But it was a fact because I was so I would get so tired and my resources were so limited that once it was maxed out,
My only choice was this vinging and purging tool.
And so I had to just get super basic,
Like just honestly say yes to doing one outside in the world thing a day.
When I get another tool and I love that you girls were talking about when you were kids having this really outward expression of frustration of like screaming into a pillow because one of the tools she gave me when I'm emotionally maxed out is to squeeze a towel.
And I honestly thought when she said that,
I'm like,
I'm never going to do that.
That's stupid.
Maybe that works for other people,
But I'm way too smart.
I use it all the time.
How did you get letters behind your name with stupid suggestions like that lady?
Are you a kindergarten teacher or a therapist?
Turns out I needed both.
But it is an actual solution for a heightened nervous system because your nervous system wants this kind of release of like,
Oh my God,
I'm maxed out,
I'm overcharged.
And it especially helps if you're emotionally flooded,
Like too many emotions,
You can squeeze this thing and it discharges some of that pent up energy.
So it's actually a really,
Dare I say sophisticated tool.
Wow.
Look at that turnaround.
And then the third tool is when it comes to trauma related stuff,
Not steering directly at the trauma.
So my desire when those memories or things would come up would be to just like think about them and be like,
Okay,
It's up.
So I got to think about it and then I will solve it.
And instead,
Especially when I was in this really swampy state and like as I said,
I was in very rudimentary kind of functioning where it was like,
I needed to nap a lot,
I needed to eat at proper times,
I needed to squeeze towels.
So like looking at the face of trauma was actually very dysregulating for me,
You know,
Because I just,
I didn't have a resilient foundation built up yet.
My resources weren't ready for it.
So instead I was taught to redirect when like that stuff started to come up,
Redirect to just how it felt in my body.
So not dig into memories or really crazy emotional stuff,
But just think like,
Oh,
Is my neck tight right now?
Am I clenching my jaw?
Is my lower back having a spasm?
And just practice sitting with my body and I was taught to time it.
So just do that for a minute,
You know,
And then squeeze the towel.
And then go to your safe place.
And this all,
When I share even,
I'm like,
Oh my goodness,
That all sounds like a lot of stuff,
But it has worked for me.
You know,
It was really like simple tools that have worked for me.
So go slow,
Be gentle with yourself,
Find support that isn't judgmental,
But meets you where you are at and we love you.
Can I talk about the hurting arena versus the healing arena?
Oh,
Please.
Because when you were just talking about,
That's what I was thinking of.
I'm just in the wrong arena for healing when I'm in the hurting.
And so my mind like,
Oh,
This thing hurts so much.
I'm going to think about it.
Oh,
What I really need to do is logistically go there and all the ways that are hurt,
But all of that,
That's that arena.
But to take yourself out of that arena and then put it in the healing arena.
So with all the things that you were just talking about,
Like coming into the body,
Getting closer to the heart,
Like that's a totally different arena and where we need to be to have this whole process be different was what I was thinking.
Yeah.
Thanks,
Lindsay.
And I also want to say that there's not,
I'm not saying there's no place to look at traumatic memories or to acknowledge them or work through them,
But just if you're in a very vulnerable place and your resources are incredibly limited,
Build them up before you go in,
Stay in the healing arena for a while.
I think that I'm going to solve that and figure this all out if I just line it up in the right way and help myself understand it so much more.
And I end up really injured kind of just being in the hurting arena where I just keep re injured and a lot of trauma and a lot.
And then it's really cyclical and what my somatic therapist has been teaching me,
Spirit fingers is exactly like something that's so counterintuitive,
Which is to drop into the body.
And then it has been so healing and so helpful.
So that's just thank you for talking about that.
And I wanted to just second it and talk about my experience because I was the same way too of like,
Oh my God,
This is,
There's no way that me dropping into the body and feeling those feelings would help and it has been a whole new world.
Yay.
Well,
I love you guys so much.
I'm jealous.
I don't have a somatic therapist yet,
But I'm going to fall back on Zen,
Which is my past somatic therapist,
Because that is,
Unfortunately,
I was really displeased to hear that that was the solution slash teaching because I really wanted to find a way to not be in my body.
Just think my way out of it.
It has been done.
I have done that many times.
Thank you guys both so much for sharing so richly and for so many different kinds of tools.
And yeah,
Again,
If what you are struggling with is not something we've touched on,
Go online and just search for help or resources and see what you can find.
I just want to say as someone who works on a hotline and does that work because of my own personal experience with,
You know,
This problem and set of behaviors,
I recognize how much courage and also how much grace must be involved in just dialing that number.
Like to me in my life now,
When I'm struggling with something,
Calling a helpline is like the farthest thing from what my brain thinks of to do.
So I just want to say on the other side of that experience,
If you are thinking about making a call or you don't want to,
Even though you think it might be a good idea,
If you have the willingness to do it just in this moment,
Pause this podcast and do it right now.
And the person whom you'll talk to in all likelihood will be someone whose life is enriched by your phone call.
And that is my experience when I get to answer these calls is that I am so encouraged and amazed by the willingness to take an action that is so different,
You know,
Like Lindsay was talking about in a totally different arena of dealing with the problem.
And so I just want to say if that's something that you think would be a good idea,
But you don't want to do it,
Maybe any of that information could be helpful and just tipping the scales in favor of trying it once.
And I also loved,
I loved how we've all been talking about the little tiny steps we can take because for me what happens is I,
My brain is very black and white and I think about doing the behavior as one end of the spectrum,
Not doing the behavior as the other end of the spectrum.
And those,
Those poles feel so far apart that the middle ground gets rendered irrelevant.
But what my actual experience has been with loving myself out of some of these behaviors is that it's not whatever I think the distance in between those two things is,
Is a fantasy.
What is really the distance is measured by what I do in this very moment.
So if you feel totally overwhelmed,
And even if you think this is like a stupid mind game,
Just try it for this moment and see what happens.
That for me has been an incredible and life changing practice.
And I use it for all kinds of stuff,
Not just for behaviors that I'm hoping to change,
That even just taking little steps forward can be this really life changing practice in whatever area of your life you're trying it in.
And one just example that I can give of this around scalp picking is that I keep having the experience that I've been kind of studying in meditation where I'll be meditating and all of a sudden my hands are on my head.
And so then I'm like,
What happened?
And over time,
Over months,
I've been able to see that what happens is I have an anxious thought.
I start to think about the day or the week,
The month,
I start to think about commitments that I haven't done everything for.
I think about things on my to do list.
And then it almost feels like in that same moment,
But a millisecond after I'm picking at my scalp because the anxiety comes up and I need relief.
So when that happens,
I say,
What just happened?
And then I go back to my thoughts and I'm like,
Oh,
I was planning or I was trying to do or control or fix.
And then when I noticed that I just put my hands down.
And it doesn't matter if I do that one time in a meditation or a hundred times in a meditation.
It keeps being just about that moment when I noticed myself doing it to stop.
And if I can't stop,
I pray for willingness.
If I don't have the willingness in this moment,
I can actually just pray for that.
I can pray for willingness.
This kind of practice transforms a life.
It has transformed my life.
So that's one kind of little thing is,
You know,
Meditation helps me so much.
And when I look to the arena of healing,
The way I think about that is integrity building actions or self-esteem building actions.
And I wish this wasn't the case,
But for me,
All of the self-destructive behaviors are fundamentally self-esteem issues.
I'm so irritated by that,
That that's true.
And I get annoyed when people point it out to me.
But for me,
Essentially,
That is the truth that I engage in these behaviors because of low self-esteem.
So what I can do to build up my self-esteem or my integrity,
Any of the parts of my life that I can show up and be present for and make it hurt less in the future by just being with that part of my life fully,
That helps me so much.
And one way that I've been doing that lately is I've been writing for money for a few years,
But I have been too afraid to write any personal stuff,
Any kind of creative stuff.
I started doing that in the last month.
And even though I don't feel,
You know,
I'm not a published author,
I'm not on Oprah's book.
Yes,
You are.
You are published on your Medium page,
Which is LMR Contonio,
If anyone wants to go and read her published works.
Okay.
It's excellent.
Thanks,
Guys.
You're so encouraging.
It's elicit.
Okay.
Just doing that practice where,
And it doesn't matter what I accomplish,
It doesn't matter.
It's not about getting something done.
It's just about sitting down and doing the practice.
I have so much relief in the parts of my life that are uncertain right now,
Like my professional life is in a big transition.
And it gives me a real platform of integrity to stand on.
Just knowing that there's this thing I've always wanted to be a writer,
And there are all these ways that I didn't let myself do that because I was afraid.
And now I am letting myself do that.
And it feels so safe.
I feel like I'm on my own team.
The fact that I am putting out this effort and not to accomplish anything with it,
But just to claim this is what I want to be and this is what I'm doing about it feels so good inside my heart.
This last one,
I remember being in a place where I was just like Annie was talking about.
I was completely out of resources.
And incidentally,
Annie shared that one social engagement tool a day with me about three or four years ago.
And when I was like in the thick of Lyme disease and trying to figure out how to live this totally different way of life,
It helped me so much.
It was,
Yeah,
It could be a helpful tool for me to come back to.
So thank you for reminding me of it.
I called one of my spiritual teachers and I was telling her that I was just out of everything.
And I remember saying something like that.
I wanted a carton of cigarettes or like a strange person's genital area,
Maybe more than one or all these things,
A drink,
A super burrito.
I got this text of this and it was so,
You're just like,
I just want the thing that's gonna and you sent the emoji with 100,
There was like a bomb and a skull and crossbow.
Oh yeah,
Those used to be my favorite emojis.
The like medical syringe and knife.
Just a cigarette.
Yeah,
Totally.
Yes.
Thank you,
Emoji life for supporting me and my spiritual healing.
And so I called this person,
I was laying out this list of options and she gave me this other really,
Really simple,
Helpful tool that any of us can use in any moment,
Which is which one of those would hurt you the least?
And I was like,
I think super burrito.
And she was like,
Why don't you go get one of those?
And I was like,
Okay,
I will.
And we can just start where we are and wherever you guys are who are listening,
Thank you.
Thanks for being part of this conversation.
Please get in touch.
Let us know what's going on for you,
What we missed,
Where you're struggling and where it could feel supportive to have a conversation or a tool.
Last little tool,
Throw it in there.
I found this kind of amazing MTV half of us.
Com is the website and it has a bunch of videos and it has the drop down menu which says I'm feeling and then it has anxious,
Depressed,
It has suicidal,
It has all kinds of things.
And then they have a bunch of different videos.
It's great.
A lot of work has been put into it.
And it's there to get some new language and some new ideas of how to deal with this,
How to be with this and even it has it for how to help a friend.
So a lot of money has been put into it.
I'd say more than half of us are dealing with some sort of what do we call it?
Internal pain.
Exactly.
Thank you.
If you want to support us,
You can go to our website at prettyspiritualpodcast.
Com and on the website you'll also find all our tools that we've been talking about and tools from previous episodes and you can just get in touch and say hey to us and we would love that.
We would love it.
What are we going to be talking about next time around?
Do we dare talk about money?
Do you dare?
Do I dare?
Do you dare,
Annie?
We can only hope that the next time we will talk about money.
That's so great.
Thank you.
We love you guys.
Thank you so much for listening.
Bye.
We love you guys.
