Baby I Grieve Your Lovin' (Season 1)

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40:27

Baby I Grieve Your Lovin' (Season 1)

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There’s no debating that a negative sense of self leads to serious social, physical, and psychological challenges. This explains why our formation of the self starts to form during the first years of life. Attachment theory says that as human beings, we naturally want to be around other people because being loved and loving people back makes all of us feel safe. When a parent is emotionally abusive to us, there’s no way to feel safe. It destroys how we interact with people as adults. Tami discusses the effects of emotionally abusive parents.

Meet your Teacher

Boulder, CO, USA

Meet your Teacher

Boulder, CO, USA

Transcript

When alcoholic or other dysfunction is present in the family, Every member of the family is affected. We are affected in body, Mind, And spirit. Through the first 18 years of our lives, Our families had 6, 570 days to shame, Belittle, Ignore, Criticize, And manipulate us during the most formative years of our being. That is 160, 000 hours of living in dysfunction with unhealthy parenting. That is 72 seasons of sorrow stored deeply in the tissue of our bodies. The dysfunction is encoded into our souls as the false self. To survive this long exposure to family dysfunction, Our minds develop deeply entrenched roles and traits that changed the meaning of words and experiences. Some of us misremembered the damaging nature of the abuse because we depended upon our abusers for food and shelter. That's a direct quote from the big red book from ACA, Adult Children of Alcoholics. I think this is very relevant in terms of dealing with generational toxic family dysfunction. What do you say, Noli? Wow. Sounds really, Really deep. That really runs deep. Which is why the name of our episode is Baby, I Grieve Your Lovin' because that's where it starts. Baby, I grieve your lovin' This is LW Noli with Tami Reseda-Atman and it's episode three of our podcast, The Stuck Stops Here. And today's podcast, Baby, I Grieve Your Lovin'. Tami, What are we talking about today in this podcast? We are talking about attachment theory. So a lot of people are not familiar with that, But it is a source of both information and pain. Explain what that is. What is attachment theory? Great question. First, I have to give credit to the people who invented it. British psychiatrist, John Bowlby, Pioneered it in the 1960s and it was further expanded upon by Canadian psychologist, Mary Ainsworth. So basically it talks about how our brains are programmed to survive and thrive in the environment we were born into. And it totally affects our self-esteem, Our relationships, Our ability to control our emotions, And basically the quality of life spiritually that we live. So based on the quote that you just said when we opened the show, This is environmental. I mean, I know we're born genetically with certain things, But a lot of our attachment behaviors are environmental based on our upbringing, Our parenting, Things like that, Right? Absolutely. You know, In all the books that I have read and all the research that I've done, How deeply you connect to your parent at the age of three months, Five months, Nine months, Or not deeply you connect will affect you the rest of your life. So even at such a young age, Are you saying that when a baby is just forming, It's a new baby, It can already detect whether or not it's getting loved by its caregiver? Incredible. So if you have time today, Google the still face experiment by Dr. Edward, I think it's Tronik, T-R-O-N-I-C-K. It's on YouTube. Still face experiment. We'll put it in the show notes too. Absolutely. This experiment is mind blowing. It shows what happens when there's just simply a lack of interest in connecting with the baby. And I don't want to say too much because I don't want to interpret it for the audience. I want them to go see this for themselves. But it will make, For me, When I first watched the video during my research, I think I came across it almost three years ago, Brought a lot of clarity to me. And then this video led me to read all about the attachment theory. And I have avoidant attachment. Better now because I've been working on it. And there's basically four types and I want everyone to do their own research on it. Again, I like to be the doorway of information and you discover things on your own. There's four types. There's secure, Avoidant, Anxious, And disorganized. A secure attachment, People are trusting, They're confident, And they honestly live a very emotionally, Spiritually, Mentally fulfilling life. That sounds ideal. That does sound ideal. And even if you weren't raised with it, You can bring it on yourself. Unfortunately, There's not enough of that. The avoidant is, I can do this on my own. Nobody can be trusted. Nobody can take care of me. I have to do it all myself. Asking for help is scary, Awful. Vulnerability is, As far as I'm concerned, The F word. How does that develop? How does that happen? Great question. For me, My parents divorced when I was very young. My mother was hearing impaired, Aka deaf. I've talked about this in the previous episodes. She had two children. My father left her for the secretary. How cliche. And then she was clearly overwhelmed. So, Two-year-olds, People underestimate the intelligence of two-year-olds. I knew that I had to raise myself and not put on too much pressure on her. So there was no- So you already started doing things for yourself and thinking, Nobody's going to help me. I'm pretty much on my own. Is that two years old? Absolutely. At two years old. I think that when I was in first grade, My mother went back to school, Which was great, But she'd always show me her grades. So I'm sitting here at first grade praising my mother on her grades. Did you hang her paper on there for a year? Actually, I probably did. So yeah, It's- And when we talk, That quote that talks about hours and minutes and seasons, And the message becomes well entrenched and a guiding force in all of your decisions and relationships. And for me, My book talks about my lack of ability to connect with people and my friends, And they were short-lived and not very meaningful, Or if it was oversharing, It was very unhealthy. I read something about that, Where people offer too much information. Yeah, There's an anxious style of attachment where it's clingy, Because they're so desperate for a connection that they overshare. And that can be put off. That's off-putting. Off-putting, Thank you. Yes, Off-putting. That's the word. Absolutely. So in terms of dating, This is probably geared more toward people who are divorced or single, But in terms of dating, It's good to know your attachment style. And once you know yourself better, You can read other people's signals better. And I was reading in one of the books that you could pick up signs if somebody is controlling very early on if you know yourself. For sure. For sure. And sometimes you can actually, An avoidant person can date an avoidant person, And it works, But it's not very meaningful. They're both avoiding. Exactly. I can see them being back-to-back. It might be, Let's just say, Just white noise and static. Then at some point in your life, You'll be feeling empty and unhappy and not know why. And then there's clinging, Then you push people away. And then- Well, We all know people like that who have gotten too close too quickly, Men and women, And they offer too much information and they want to help and they want to get involved and you're just like, Whoa, Back off a little bit. It's okay. Let's take it slow. Absolutely. That's too much. We are hardwired to have an emotional connection, Unlike reptiles. So when that doesn't happen, You are going to find a way to connect or you're going to find a way to pretend you don't want to connect. Most of the time, You won't choose wisely because you don't know any better. Right. If you have a secure attachment and you know yourself very well, Chances are good, You will choose wisely. You feel comfortable in your own skin and you're not desperate for that connection. It'll happen. Absolutely. So secure attaches feel comfortable with intimacy. They develop romantic ties very healthy and easily. Anxious attaches, Fear abandonment, And avoidant, Never get too close. And what's the fourth style? It's disorganized, Which was most recently developed that, I don't remember who, It was a psychologist named Mary Maine, I think. And that's actually the most destructive because a lot of times the disorganized may suffer physical abuse as well as emotional abuse. And they're in permanent chaos because the very people that are supposed to take care of themselves, Take care of them are also abusing them. Wow. So it's pretty awful. But if you take a little time to research your attachment style, You get a better understanding of yourself and how and why you're interacting the way you do, Whether it's with your children, Your husband, Your friends, Your wife, Your coworker, Your partner, Whatever. So it's all in relationships, Your attachment style to other people. Things about relationships and your day-to-day operations, The way you operate day-to-day. I don't know why, The question you just asked made me remember something that I completely despised myself for. So back, I would say, Over 20 years ago, I was in hyper competitive mode. And everything was, What did I get out of the situation? What did I, Am I winning? What's in it for me? What's in it for me? To try to feel better. And I remember driving home from work and I was probably cranky like usual. And I was looking for a parking spot, I think in the supermarket. And I intentionally race somebody to get to a better parking spot, Which I think a lot of us do. And I won, Yay, Go me. And as I went to the grocery store and as I walked back out, I saw her walking with an elderly mother. And she wasn't, It was not parked in a handicap spot. But I looked at that and that was actually a turning point for me saying, What did I just win? I won absolutely nothing. And I- And you must have felt like- And to this day, I still think about that. I think we all have things that happened to us that we- No, No, That we made happen. We made it, Correct. That we made happen that we still think about and say, God, I can't believe I did that. That we sort of beat ourselves up about. A hundred percent. But let's go to the why behind making something negative happen. The why behind it is, I think comes back to how you relate to people and how you relate to yourself. I think John Bobley said, What cannot be told to the mother cannot be told to the self. So if you can't tell your mother you're afraid and you can't tell yourself you're afraid. If you can't be honest with your mother, You can't be honest with yourself. And it's a great quote and it's pretty accurate. So when we become, And I realize the parking spot's a benign example. There are a lot worse things out there. But it is one of those micro moments. I think there's a lot of negative micro moments that sort of add up to an overall crappy way of looking at the world and looking at yourself. Wow. Something like that happened to me recently, Which is unusual because things like that don't, Or I don't usually make things like that happen anymore. But just recently, Within the last couple of weeks, I was in a place where I saw something that I wanted and I thought they were free, But I wasn't a hundred percent sure. And I should have asked, But I just took it and I left and I thought to myself, God, I feel so bad. Like it's just a little, It's nothing. It's a piece of plastic. It's a trinket, But it was, I really, Something in me wanted it and I didn't feel like bothering anybody. I didn't feel like asking. Is this, Can I take this? Does this cost anything? And I remember texting the owner of this establishment and saying, You know, I took this thing and I should have asked you, Was it free? Was it for taking or does it cost anything? Can I, Can I pay you for it? And it literally, Until I heard back from her, I was, I was on pins and needles because I felt so bad. And then she texted me later and said, No, No, Those are free to take. It's okay. Don't worry about it. And I was really relieved, But I could not stop feeling so bad about that, Which is unusual for me. I don't usually do things like that. I should have asked. So, But it's a little, Yeah. It's all those, Those little things in the way we, You know, Operate in our daily life. And I actually think that was an emotional response. That whole interaction, I think was something from my childhood. I think something from my youth came back to me. I remember when I was a kid at camp and the, One of the kids in my bunk had these peanut chews and she had like little, Little peanut chews. And so when I was a kid, My mother would always kind of hide the candy and I'm not sure why, But she would hide the candy. So of course my brothers and I knew where the candy was and we would sneak in and we'd take it because we knew where it was. So we'd sneak. So I went to camp and this girl had these peanut chews. So I did the same thing. I would sneak into her bag and take every once in a while, Take a peanut chew and eat it. Now this was like, My brain was wired to steal the peanut chews like I did at home. How well you were wired to be afraid to ask? I think that's it. So, So the same thing happened. Anyway, Long story short, I got caught and I got in trouble and I felt terrible. You and the damn peanut chews. Damn it, I needed those peanut chews. I've lost all respect for you. I'll never eat peanut chews again. So speaking of attachment style, So I went onto the website and I took this attachment style test. Basically it's a list of questions that ask you how you deal in situations and then it gives you like a general grade on how you did. So it turned out that I'm 67% secure. Way to go. I'm pretty happy about that. Except when it comes to peanut chews. Except for peanut chews. Clearly I still have some issues because I'm 6. 5% disorganized. 6. 5% ambivalent and anxious and 19. 4% avoidant and dismissive, Which is probably the part of me that doesn't like to ask people for help. So that's my attachment style currently. I think if I had, Had I taken this test when I was in my twenties, I don't think I would have had these 67% secure attachment. I think I would have been much more in the avoidant, Dismissive and even the ambivalent and anxious category. So it's been a long road. So yeah, For the listeners here, You guys want to take a test. It's your personality. Net slash attachment. I'll repeat it one more time. Your personality. Net slash attachment. So just for your own, The more knowledge you have about yourself, The more ways that you can actually improve your micro-moments. Make them positive and not negative. Yeah, It's a free test. Go online, Take it, Find out about your attachment style and you might find out some things about yourself that you weren't aware of. So I want to talk about this journalist, Peter Lovenheim, Who wrote a book. It's called The Attachment Effect, Exploring the powerful ways our earliest bond shapes our relationships and lives. And he talks a lot about how we can be very empowering. You know, I'll quote him, It's hard if you're going through life anxious and don't know it. For example, You won't understand the conflicts and frustrations in your relationships. When you learn attachment and you can think, Oh, That's my attachment style speaking, Whenever you're triggered by something, You can even start to think, I don't need to respond that way and change your behaviors. Which I think is what this whole episode is all about. Babies grieve the poor quality of Loven that they got. And that directly correlates to our attachment theory. Right. And then the triggers. It's so interesting. How many times have you been in a situation where somebody said something and you were triggered into something that came from somewhere else? It was just a pattern behavior. And to expand on that, The psychologist Lisa Firestone, I love this quote. Again, Psychologist Lisa Firestone, This is her quote. She talks about the spark when you first meet somebody early in the relationships. And she said, Actually, It's the opposite of the spark is a good signal for relationship. Are you relaxed around this partner instead of the, You know, Boom. Wow. So you're talking about like the butterflies in the stomach is not necessarily a good thing. Exactly. Not necessarily in the long term, According to her. And I thought that was very interesting that if you're comfortable and you're relaxed, That's actually a really good sign. Just food for thought. Absolutely. You know, A way to look at it a little differently. Right. Well, It's nice to be with people who make you feel like you can be relaxed and be yourself. That's the ideal situation, Isn't it? Absolutely. Rather than being nervous and anxious. One of the other books I read talks about, You know, If you're at dinner with a date and they bring you a place where they know everybody and they order for you. It might somebody with an insecure attachment of any type might see that as, Oh, He's taking care of me or she's taking care of me. And oh, They're paying, You know, Telling, Making suggestions means they care. When actual actuality, It might be that they're very controlling. Absolutely. Again, It's a maybe. But what happens when you have insecure attachment of any type, You might not read that correctly. I have a friend who went on a date with a guy who did that. He picked her up. They went to the restaurant. He decided where happened to be an expensive restaurant. He ordered for them. And it was it was a meal that she wasn't even that interested in eating. And then they split the bill. And she told that story to a group of us. And I and I chimed in and said, Move on. This is bad. This is really bad. And she wasn't sure. She's like, Is that bad? I'm like, That's bad. That's just all the signs point to no. Absolutely. You know, And it goes for, You know, Men and women, Too. And it actually goes for people. It doesn't really matter. Men, Women, Women, You know, Any of that. You know, I have a stepbrother who's got divorced and remarried. That's a story for another episode. He's getting remarried to a classic pathological narcissist. Oh, My God. And I can see it. And it's it's sad to watch it happen and not be able to do anything. But yeah, If you told him he would have you for it. Absolutely. He wouldn't believe you. You know, He's going to find out for himself. Yeah. You know, I even you know, I don't know how my my biological dad brought up his second wife at some point. And you know, That was a big mistake. I talk about that in my book, Too, For him. But whatever. And I remember saying to him, This conversation probably had about 10 years ago, You know, Well, If anyone had told you what she was really like, Would you have believed him at that point? He goes, Absolutely not. Yeah. So you have you know, I think a lot of family members get angry when they see them marrying somebody that. You know, They don't like or don't want. And whether it's for good reasons or bad reasons, You're not going to talk them out of it. Or if you talk them out of it, There's going to be a lot of resentment. It's just because they're going to marry them anyway. And they're going to tell them what you said. And then that person is going to hate your guts. But you can only stay, You know, Healthily disengaged if you have a secure attachment. And that's to your own children and your own siblings. Right. So if you have secure attachment, You recognize that this is a bad mistake, But there's not much you can do about it. But you're capable of being there for them when they need it. And you can go up, You know, On about your merry way. And you know, Coexist with that disappointment. You know, That's the that's the best analogy I could give, You know. You know, I hear a lot from people who siblings married people they don't like. And it's, You know, Contentious all the time. Who wins? You know, There's no need for it. But you just let them be. But you can't. If you again, I'm going to insecure attachment will cause you to look at these situations in a very counterproductive way. So how do we get secure? What do we do when we have such a massive insecure attachment and we want to get we want to get well, What do we do? You got to dig deep. Ah. You got to dig deep. As children, We are conditioned to sacrifice our authentic core. So we maintain some sort of connection with our dysfunctional parents. And it's mostly an unconscious process. Somehow even before we can speak, We know that if we are our most true and full self, We are in danger of losing connection with those that we are dependent on for our emotional and physical survival. Fast forward to now we're adults. We've done all that. We had our you know, We appeased our parents are you know, It took us a long time to get to this point where we realize our our our psyche is all fucked up. We don't know, You know, Why and we're miserable and we want to fix it. So what are we going to do to fix it besides listening to this podcast? Of course. And you know, Obviously, Therapy is a huge step. And there are a lot of people who can't take the time, Won't take the time, Afraid to take the time to be afraid to face those demons. You know, It's like I talked about, You know, To change and to dig deep. Remember that crane analogy from last week? You know, Big hole drill inside your head and into your gut. Pull it back out, Put it back together and shove it back in. You know, That's why I say you have to choose your path to what I call self rediscovery. Do you think, OK, So let's say you don't have time for therapy or you're afraid of therapy. There are books you can read. I actually mentioned a bunch of them. I've mentioned a bunch. There's a there's a list of resources on my website as well as at the end of my book. So on the website, The Stuck Stops Here. Yeah, It's like a tongue twister. The Stuck Stops Here dot com, You can see the list of books and resources that, You know, Just start reading, Start reading and becoming aware of of your patterns and your behaviors and your triggers and your attachment style. And it might bring some clarity to some of your behaviors. I know for me, The journey started with a book called The Road Less Travel. Oh, M. Scott Peck. And that book, You know, I started reading it and just about delayed gratification and all the things that came up. And I was my mind started to open and say, Whoa, You know, There's there's more to to my psyche than I think. There's a lot going on here. And then, You know, I just kept going down the line and reading books about these kinds of subject matters. And it just made me consistently aware of the patterns of behavior and, You know, Why I stole things. That's why I, You know, Raced for parking lot spaces. So it's funny. I think I remember how that book starts. And correct me if I'm wrong, It's a great line. It starts with something like very first line the book. If you think life is supposed to be fair and refuse to accept that it might be unfair, Stop reading now. Wow, That's really good. And it is not. Yes, It is not fair that we you know, I think it's very unfair that I will never be the best that I could have been had I had a different childhood. But I can be the best self starting from where I'm at now. And there are definitely moments still, You know, That I get very disappointed that I didn't wake up sooner. But part of the healing journey is forgiving your toxic parents. Not forgetting, Forgiving for what they were not capable of. Because if you are angry at their toxicity, Then their toxicity still controls you. So true. And I don't want that. And I don't want to live like that anymore. You want to be free. And that's the only way to do it is to start doing research. We talked last week about like removing the boulders from the shoulder, You know, And I think that was a great image because, You know, As you slowly remove those burdens from your back, You feel lighter. You feel better. I remember when I was in my 20s, I went to see a therapist in New York. And I remember I didn't know why I went to see her, But I just felt so not good in my skin. I just felt so powerless. And I said to her, How will I know when I feel better? And she said, When you feel comfortable in your own skin. And at the time I didn't totally understand what she meant, But certainly that is what happened. I feel so much more comfortable in my own skin and content with who I've become that I can see now those boulders just kind of rolled off my shoulders. And there's definitely a much better feeling of lightness, You know, And just secure, I guess, Security. Yeah. We'll go positive micro moments every day. And that means reading something that gives you clarity, You know, Or doing, You know, Basically, You know, So, Yeah, I saw a great meme. Is that how you say it? Meme. Yeah. It's not of our generation. I know exactly. I'm dating myself. I hope the 25 year olds don't disconnect from here. I hope they're listening. Yeah, Exactly. So it says you need three things in life. A job that, You know, Pays your bills, A hobby that keeps you creative, And something that keeps you physically active, You know, So creativity, Physical activity, And pay your bills. I mean, When you have all those three, That could be a good step in starting to feel better. That's true. That sounds really good. I think Rod Stewart mentioned something like that in his book about those three things as well. I love them all. Trains being his hobby. Little train sets. Super cute. That's interesting. You know, Another thing that I think is a really good thing to do, Which I learned from a course I took on edx. Org, It's called The Science of Happiness. It was for sure one of the best courses I've ever taken. And it's free, People. Edx. Org, The Science of Happiness, Will teach you about happiness and positive psychology and where it comes from. And I actually learned a lot from that course. And one of the greatest things I learned was about a gratitude journal, Where at the end of the day, Write down three things you're grateful for. And that's it. Just real simple. Three things. And then as, You know, As your days progress, Something happens to your brain that makes you start being aware of gratitude. And it just, It's such a positive thing. So there's another little tip. Absolutely. A lot of times a lot of people are so blocked that even if they were to take a course like that, You know, And it doesn't speak to them specifically, That they might not get what they should out of it. So you have to have an open mind. You have to say, You know, You have to have those, You know, That negative self perception challenged. And you can't grip tightly to what you've been taught if you're very unhappy where you're at. And that grip, That death grip on what is familiar, Even if it's not good for you, Can prevent people from really getting what they could out of a course like that. And that's what I'm hoping this podcast does is maybe you've released the grip on what is familiar because there might be a better way. Right. And maybe it brings to light for you some of the issues that you've been dealing with, That you do. No, No, You've been not been dealing with. That's been happening when you've not really been dealing with them. That's correct. Exactly. You know, Playing pretend does not end in kindergarten. Playing pretend can be a lifelong commitment. And my dad's living proof of that. You know, What's one of the hardest things, I think, Is that when you finally do discover these things about yourself and you do realize where they came from, Whether it was, You know, The generational toxic parenting and the history of your life, It's really difficult because you can't really share it with those people that are the perpetrators, You know, The people who hurt you. You can't share it with them because they're not going to, They're going to just get defensive and go, What are you talking about? I did the best I could. And I, You know, They're just going to lay on the guilt and they're not going to look inward and go, You know what? You're right. I was a shitty mom. Absolutely. Absolutely. And we talked about the societal and cultural norms that, You know, Honor thy mother and father. And so that well entrenched statement there robs people who have suffered emotional abuse from saying, Being validated. And again, You don't have to, Getting angry and trying to punish them and get revenge will do nothing because it's all about, Well, They're still in control. They're still have the power. The power is in disengaging. It's in the letting go. And not caring when they push your buttons rather than yelling at them for trying. Right. And recognizing those triggers when they push your buttons and you go, Wait a minute, Wait a minute. I see what's coming. You know, I think that's part of it too. Absolutely. Maybe we should discuss triggers in the next episode. I think that's a great idea. We'll call it trigger crappy. I think that's really good. What do you think? I hear people screaming in agreement. Oh, That's so punny. Oh God. Do we just lose more listeners? Well, If you have any friends or acquaintances or enemies that you know are dealing with these kinds of issues, Please share our podcast with them. We'd love to have more people listening and hopefully getting some insight. And once again, I'm LW Nolie and I'm with Tammy Resita-Atman and we are not licensed therapists. We are not life coaches. We are just two women who are talking about a very important subject matter and we want to share it with you. And if anyone has any subjects that you'd like us to address, Email us. The Stuck stops here at gmail. Com. There it is. Check out our website. The Stuck Stops Here dot com. We're on Instagram. We're on Facebook. Oh, And Twitter. And we're on Twitter. Send us a tweet. Anyway, Here's a song. This is another song that Tammy wrote. It's called Dig Deep. So we're going to roll it for you and hope you enjoy the song. Do you want to tell us a little bit about the show? Sure. Sure. So the first two lines, You know, Been living with the ghost of me wearing shoes that never fit. Sometimes trying your best is knowing when to quit. That's the first two lines. And that really talks about when I say quit, Quit the old ways, Quit the bad habits, Quit clinging to your false self. Any shoes that didn't fit, That goes into, You know, Being morphed by toxic parents into something you were never supposed to be. And you feel like a ghost, You know? So that's how we wear those lyrics came from. And I hope people like the song. Enjoy. We'll see you next time. Been running from the ghost of me and wearing shoes that never fit. Sometimes trying your best means knowing when to quit. That's the first two lines. And that really talks about when I say quit, Quit the old ways, Quit clinging to your false self. And I hope people like the song. Any shoes that never fit, Sometimes trying your best means knowing when to quit.