The Regenerative Journey | Ep 4 | Sara Schmude

It's that catalyst for change.

You need to be asking the question,

You need just that kickstart,

Whether it be a drought,

Whether it be a flood,

Rains or fires.

It's hard to say fires,

Like I didn't think I'd be.

I'm a little bit,

I'm still very fragile after that.

That was Sarah Schmuder,

And you're listening to The Regenerative Journey.

I'm your host,

Charlie Arnott.

And in this podcast series,

I'll be uncovering the world of regenerative agriculture,

Its people,

Practices and principles,

And empowering you to apply their learnings and experience to your business and life.

I'm an eighth generational Australian farmer who transitioned my family farm from industrial methods to holistic regenerative practices.

Join me as I dive deep into the regenerative journeys of other farmers,

Chefs,

Health practitioners and engineers,

And I'll be sharing my story with you.

I'm Charlie Arnott,

And I'm a farmer,

I'm a farmer,

Chef,

Health practitioners and anyone else who's up for a yarn,

And find out why and how they transitioned to a more regenerative way of life.

Welcome to The Regenerative Journey with Charlie Arnott.

G'day,

Welcome to another episode of The Regenerative Journey.

This week,

We'll be speaking with Sarah Schmuder.

She's been involved in the land care movement in Armidale for a good 15 years.

That's half the time the land care's been around.

We talk about her journey as a child,

Epiphany she had along the way,

Her time as a publican at Quilpy,

Of all places,

When she was in her early 20s.

We talk about Indigenous knowledge and storytelling,

The role of community,

Her favourite books and mentors.

She's the administrator,

One of the administrators,

She's actually the founder,

I guess,

Of the wonderful Facebook page,

Regenerative Agriculture Group.

So if you're not on that yet,

Dive in there and apply for membership,

As it were.

We talk about the importance of nature and the connection to nature,

Utilising natural capital,

Bushfires,

The experience,

The very,

Well,

Life-changing,

I think,

Experience that she had with the bushfires last year,

End of 2019.

And we talk about the definition of regenerative agriculture.

It was a fascinating chat with Sarah in her own garden,

There in Armidale,

And I trust you enjoy,

As much as I did,

Our little chat with Sarah Schmude.

Sarah Schmude,

How are you?

Schmude.

Is it Schmude?

Why do I always say Schmude?

We'll start again.

I know,

For two years.

No,

I'm good.

Schmude.

No,

Is it?

I don't care.

No,

What is it Schmude?

Schmude.

Why say Schmude?

Why is that?

I know,

It's because of Paul Schmude.

He wrecked it for everyone,

Because he's got this Schmude Does Deals at his sports shop.

That's what it was?

And then everyone does automatically call him bloody Schmude.

Like I'm in the mood for Schmude.

I think you should change it.

You should change it.

You should change it.

Anyway,

Okay.

Starting again.

It's good to start with a joke.

No,

I won't stop it.

We'll do one joke.

We'll do one joke.

Yeah,

The joke.

What's the joke?

No,

Dad joke.

Hey,

Stop it.

Sarah Schmude,

How are you?

Welcome to the show.

Well,

Thank you,

Charlie Onnit.

It's a pleasure to be in my garden.

It is,

It is your garden.

It's amazing.

Can you tell us about a couple of things while we're in your garden and how did you keep it alive in the drought?

Because that's a pretty good,

Quick,

Quick yarn there too.

Yeah,

And it's a good one.

So we've been in drought in Armidale,

Well,

In terms of water restrictions for about six months.

And so that was a real challenge for a lot of people and particularly for us having a larger family,

Being five of us.

And so watering,

You know,

Water,

All our shower water was captured,

All our,

All that,

You know,

All that grey water was captured and we put it onto our garden.

Our garden,

Which you can't really fathom,

Is about,

I'd say it's half an acre in town.

And so being able to filter that water out into the garden to keep the core plants alive was great.

So we did that over that period of time.

But dad,

My dad,

Lovely dad,

He had some foresight.

No,

No,

No,

That's my father-in-law.

So my dad,

Warren Grills,

Warren and Christine Grills from east of Guyra,

Had the foresight to do a bit of drought proofing.

He did this in the eighties.

He built some really deep watering holes and that sustained them through a lot of dry times and a lot of droughts,

Serious droughts.

But he would come in,

He'd turn up here with 4,

000 litres of water every two weeks.

Really?

And saved all these trees.

So he would come in here and he'd water them?

Yeah,

We just watered them up.

That was in his DNA to keep things alive.

Isn't it?

Some beautiful trees here.

There's an ash.

There's an ash there.

That's a catalpa,

Which is a North American tree,

Which you don't see often.

Just right here?

No,

The big one in the corner.

A peppercorn,

Which you don't get in this environment.

So that just speaks of,

You know,

How we harbour this.

We've got a little microclimate going on in our garden.

You definitely do.

Yeah.

We lost a couple,

But.

.

.

It's amazing.

Deidar,

That's it.

Yeah,

They're a beautiful tree.

Yeah.

It is stunning.

I love this garden.

It's my secret garden.

It's a little sanctuary.

Yes.

So if I live in town,

This is.

.

.

You've got to have this.

Nice part of the world here,

Armidale.

Now,

We met a couple of years ago in this part of the world,

A little bit to the south in Tamworth.

And that was fantastic.

And so thank you for agreeing to be on the show.

That is.

.

.

It's a pleasure,

Charlie.

Was it only a year ago?

No,

It was about 18 months ago.

You came to our introduction to biodynamics course at Tamworth that Jodie put on there.

So biodynamics is an interesting thing just to touch on because my children go to Steiner School.

So I've always had that biodynamic sort of intrigue.

And I thought your introductory course was just the perfect foundation for me to understand it.

And a lot,

You know,

A lot broader scope.

I know it could take.

.

.

It'll take years for those sort of learnings to unfold for me.

But yeah,

It resonated with me really strongly.

So thank you.

That's a pleasure.

And Hamish.

And Hamish,

Absolutely Hamish McQuire.

Who's actually.

.

.

I'm in Armidale and he lives at Dorrigo not far away.

And he is at Boorua staying at our place to make some preparations as we speak.

So it would have been.

.

.

So this is a good time of year to make preparation.

It is absolutely,

Yep.

We haven't got many cows to do that.

So you harvest the manures and then put them into the horns and then bury them for winter.

Yes,

Actually the thing this year,

Unfortunately though,

We actually sold all our calves before we got to the point of putting the manure in the horns at that time of the year,

We'd already sold our calves.

So we don't have lactating cow manure,

But we've got cows,

We're making cow manure concentrate.

Or he is as we speak actually,

His real Trojan.

Sarah,

Talking,

You just mentioned about years and some years ago,

What your.

.

.

This podcast is obviously called The Regenerative Journey.

It's about documenting and understanding and appreciating people's own journeys.

And this is sort of a.

.

.

Yours is absolutely worth hearing.

So I'm really pleased that you're with us today.

Tell me,

Where did yours start?

You can take us back as far as you want to go.

Ooh,

My earliest memory,

Really?

Yeah,

Cool.

No,

No,

Maybe it's even my first question.

Nice.

Like,

I've always been a questioning person.

You know,

I was extremely annoying to my parents as a child.

Always wondering about things and mischievous as well,

But curious.

And I think one of my first wonderings,

My first questions would have been about nature.

So I always felt that affinity growing up and growing up on the land.

So east of Gira,

I'm a fourth generation agriculturalist.

So,

You know,

A bit of farming,

A bit of grazing,

Animal raising on a property called Trugair North,

Which is just in an area called Aberfool.

And it's a beautiful part of the country,

But it's been land managed for a number of generations in a productive way.

And it's been very fruitful for a lot of families there.

So I grew up in a lovely environment.

We did have our droughts and flooding rains and all those challenges,

Not bushfires.

They're that sort of late issue.

So yeah,

Questioning.

And also I think this might resonate with a couple of people growing up on the land,

Being a girl in that,

You know,

Growing up in the seventies and eighties on the land being a female,

We're just sort of not recognised as someone that would be a land manager,

You know,

That would,

You know,

The successional planning would be a part of your career,

Your pathway.

So I just took it for granted that I wasn't gonna be on the land.

And then just continued to ask questions,

Continued to be intrigued about,

You know,

How things worked and,

You know,

Very involved in managing the livestock.

So mustering was my second name.

And I probably learned to ride a horse before I learned to walk.

And dad gave us all these sort of lessons about shutting gates.

So that sort of leaves things as you found them.

And that serves you well in life.

So lots of those sort of lessons and questions.

And then that took me down a path of getting out in the world and being intrigued about different cultures and travelling.

So I did that for a time,

But then it wasn't until,

And I don't know if I've ever told you this,

But I lived in Sydney for just a year,

Exactly a year,

And I was 22 at the time.

And it can be a really forming time,

You know,

Before your brain's fully developed.

So it's like,

Well,

You know,

What's the world got to offer?

22 is a really interesting time.

And dad called me up and said,

I bought a pub in Outback,

Queensland,

And I need a manager.

I'm like,

Yippee,

I'm gonna earn heaps of money and go and live in a place I've never heard of,

But I'll give it a go.

You know,

I'm the adventurous type.

So ended up in Quilpi for two years or 18 months on and off.

I went for a ski trip to Austria in between.

So that kept me going.

But- That's part of the deal.

I'll go to Quilpi if you send me to Austria.

Yes.

So yeah,

There was,

There were some perks,

But again,

It was just a time where you just,

I just rose to certain challenges living there.

And it just gave me a lot more confidence to start forming my own,

My own,

You know,

My own ideas.

I think I had a bit of a sense of entitlement up to that point.

And then living in a small community of 700 people and being the publican as well.

So it was like the hub of life in town.

I just,

I just learned about community.

And that was really a real,

You know,

A point of change for me,

I reckon.

And then it's like,

Okay,

You know,

What's my contribution here?

So I ended up back in Armidale at your alma mater,

University of New England,

Doing a natural resource degree.

Cause it was the hardest degree to do.

Everyone's like,

Oh,

Don't do natural resources.

I'm like,

Well,

I'm going to do natural resources.

We thought they were hippies.

Well,

Yeah.

Yeah,

So I fitted right in.

But we were pretty straight.

So that was.

.

.

You rural science schoolies.

Yeah,

We were.

Yeah.

You could see you coming into the lecture.

I just thought,

Hungover.

Flies following us.

Wearing your girlfriends,

Going,

Wearing your girlfriends jerseys.

And confused.

Who are you people?

I was so studious.

I came in with a bag full of books and my glasses on and we didn't have computers back then.

And your beard.

My beard that had been probably been drawn on with text to the night before at the park or something.

I'm using an eyebrow.

We could go on.

The local costume dress up shop,

They were drawing trade in single eyebrows.

People would put them on for a couple of months while everyone's crew back.

There's a business opportunity right there for anyone who's looking to start a business in Armidale.

Costume shop.

Yeah,

It's still a strong industry.

So weak at the moment.

And coincidentally,

I'm going to be with 300 students this morning,

Planting.

Yeah.

Fantastic.

So they're moving more towards the Landcare ethos at uni.

So that came out of that NATRES degree.

So during my tenure there,

There were a couple of hippies.

Bruce Taylor,

I just want to give him a plug because he was one of them.

And he was very,

Very relentless type who just wanted to do good for the planet.

And so I got on board with that.

What was that Bruce?

So that was Bruce Taylor was his name.

Not Bruce Taylor from Kentucky,

But another great stalwart of Landcare.

But no,

Bruce Taylor,

He was just doing a NATRES degree.

Just felt really passionate.

I think,

And he was such a different sort of person.

And those people,

I really admire it.

The ones that just,

I don't care what the rod stroppers think of me.

I'm just going to go out there and start my own tribe.

And I admire that.

We love those people.

Yeah.

And he spoke of bush regeneration and riparian restoration.

I'm like,

I don't know about this stuff.

So that got me intrigued.

And then I just took,

I took the path of Landcare.

I did some work experience for them in 1998,

I think.

Here in Armidale.

Here in Armidale.

And it was just,

I was sold.

It was community-based,

Grassroots,

Rural.

So it was that lovely dichotomy of urban and rural and just having a structure,

A lovely structure,

Grassroots structure that was well supported at the time.

Well,

Not necessarily in those late nineties,

But by the time I got,

Early,

Late nineties.

So by the time I got involved in a formal sense,

Left uni,

Had babies,

But just got involved in different projects.

And then,

Where are we?

15 years later.

15 years.

I've been all this time with Landcare and really just passionate.

And I've loved working in this network of people that are really close to the land and close to working with nature.

So that resonated with me as well.

Just jump in there.

As you know,

And as listeners,

If they don't know,

They're going to find out.

This series of our podcast is supported by Landcare Australia and through the Bob Hawke Landcare Australia Award that I was very honoured and thankful to be the recipient of a couple of years ago.

And what's your sort of,

I guess,

What makes Landcare unique from your point of view?

I mean,

You were there for 15 years.

You were there for half of the whole time.

Like,

Not just like a member of a Landcare group,

Which I'm not saying is anything bad about that,

But you were staff.

You were part of the machine that was Landcare for half of its whole life.

A coordinator.

What were some of the unique things about it that perhaps kept it alive for so long?

I think because it just comes from a position of working with the land.

Just people just,

They believe in it.

They know it,

They understand it.

They have a thirst for knowledge.

They want to build that,

But they also want to have social connections.

They don't want to feel isolated in their pursuits.

You know,

On the land,

There's been various land methods,

They're worked in production.

And so,

Well,

There's many,

And varied around New England as well.

So it's quite a diverse community.

And the thing that I got most involved in was the educational side of it.

So I started working with kids early on.

And just,

Because that was something that worked for me as a child.

I went to an environmental center,

Thalgara Environmental Center,

Which is still going today.

Here at Amida.

Yeah,

And this was really key in my connection with the country is that just understanding it,

Asking those questions again,

And just having the right practitioners,

Right mentors come in,

You know,

The student is ready and the right practitioner comes in,

Sort of thing.

And Thalgara provided that for me.

So I just wanted to use land care as a conduit to reach children.

So I started up what's called frog dreaming and just using the dreaming was a storytelling part.

And that resonated with me.

I have some meaningful links in the indigenous community here in Armidale.

Feel really strongly about it.

Feel really strongly about that,

You know,

That spiritual connection with land and indigenous knowledge and the people as well,

You know,

They're just powerful people,

The ones that have become involved.

And for two days,

It's only a two day program,

But it,

So we just go out into the bush with a hundred kids.

We walk up Mount Javel,

They take their shoes off,

They connect with the country through their feet and we just invite them to open their senses.

And it's a beautiful engagement between the kids as well.

So they're all in that space and they're all just leaving their behaviors in there,

You know,

Anything that they had,

You know,

I didn't have breakfast this morning,

All those sort of complaints get left behind and they're up on top of a mountain,

Which is significant.

You can see it from here.

Just through those trees over there.

There it is.

Mount Javel.

It's actually called Tuanbandian in traditional Anuan language.

I believe,

You know,

That that is,

That's something that's still being questioned.

There's a black cockatoo,

There's two.

Oh,

It's going to rain in two days for two days.

Is that right?

Yeah,

That's what I've been told.

That's the thing.

By the cockatoos that they've took.

They just,

That was the sign.

It's been raining immensely here for the last five weeks.

It's been amazing.

And your garden has just absolutely come alive from what I understand.

It looks,

We're back to that,

But it's amazing.

So we're hearing,

And just while we're on that,

We are opposite public schools.

So if you hear buses and children chattering away,

Then that is why.

Because we like to take our interviews out into the environs of our interviewees.

Yeah,

There's a squeaky bus.

We better get onto that.

We're all excited children.

But just going on from frog dreaming,

We,

So that would happen every year.

It's happened for 12 years.

And so in that time,

I've just,

I've developed other connections with land.

So regenerative agriculture just came into focus through land care,

Talking to a number of farmers that felt isolated in their pursuit.

So it was a case of,

Well,

You know,

Is this part of my journey?

Do I start helping people feel connected?

And I'm at the time,

So this is about three years ago,

I was really avid Facebook user,

As were a lot of people.

It's quite a,

It's a vortex.

It just,

You know,

Just takes you in.

Tuck you in,

Yeah.

And then use,

If you can appreciate,

It's an amazing tool.

If you can use it for good,

There's a lot of evil.

I've got a nice little analogy of that is,

Tell us.

The chainsaw,

You know,

You can use the chainsaw for great things or you can use it for very evil things.

And that's the same as Facebook.

Yeah.

I find,

You know,

I've got a lot of family that are adverse to our Facebook and they just,

Don't you dare put anything about us on Facebook.

Yep.

Any of those sort of stuff.

But anyway,

I thought that,

Look,

Let's just have a look at how I can connect people,

How it can be a tool for good.

And so I started the Regenerative Agriculture Group and in the initial stages,

There was only a regenerative agriculture group.

It wasn't called a group on Facebook at the time.

And it was very well patronised.

There were 25,

30,

000 people on it,

Maybe more.

Where was that based,

In the States?

In the States.

And then I just started observing how's that tracking and you know,

How they sort of,

How are conversations nurtured in that space.

And it just,

It actually was quite volatile at the time.

And I thought,

Well,

I want to start something that is- Volatile as in antagonistic or sort of,

No,

That's wrong,

This is right.

Yeah,

That and moderated by a lot of people.

So that was another thing that I noticed and also it's public.

So therefore a lot of people have the opportunity to just view,

You know,

Just view and then just make random comments so they don't even have to be members of the group.

I don't think so.

So I guess trolling,

You know,

Why potentially.

Yeah.

And so I thought,

Okay,

Well I'll make it a private group and you know,

In an environment where people feel safe to share their,

And to feel different and to just share their experiences no matter where they are at their journey,

Which is all very different for different people,

Different circumstances.

So many variables in this space,

In this region,

Actually.

It's a bit of a thing,

Isn't it?

Yeah,

It is.

Anyway,

We started up the group,

Came across Anne Coote.

Anne Coote,

Legend.

Caroline,

Yeah.

And Caroline Disfield,

So Anne Coote-Maurie,

Caroline Disfield and Imbrel.

Yeah.

In the early days,

I just observed,

I didn't know them.

I just observed their beautiful,

Just this lovely way of moderating conversations,

Just know the way they responded.

So I just resonated with that.

And I said,

Would you want to help me moderate this group?

Because it has,

I think it has potential.

So we just started this little community practice and we've invited on Adriana McClenigan,

Who's a local here in Armidale,

And as a third moderator,

Or fourth.

And we work beautifully as a little team of,

It's like,

We treat it like this is our living room,

Be respectful.

We've just got a couple of codes of conduct and it's just tracking beautifully.

Some of the things that people say,

The reasons they want to join,

And it's coming from all over the world now.

So we've got nine and a half thousand members.

Stop it.

And we've got like 200,

250 posts a week from a whole range of,

Yeah,

A whole range of backgrounds.

It is extraordinary and really meaningful engagement in some cases.

So lots of practitioners out there,

I can name Brian Wahlberg,

Graham Hand.

Well,

They're just,

They're two.

I just have a little community of people that I just tap into.

So I know if anyone's asking a question I can go,

Okay,

Well,

What about Guy Webb?

He would know all about fungi and endophytic fungi and he can- Graham Rees,

I know he jumps in.

Graham Rees,

Yeah.

Yeah,

No,

You would know several of them.

And so there's just this community building going on.

And how affirming is that?

And it's the wonderful thing that I've found about this space is exactly that.

It's the attitude and the respect and the engagement people have.

It's such a breath of fresh air.

Not to say that I spend a lot of time on Facebook and other pages and it's all bad or,

You know.

It's more that,

You know,

There's,

It's such a font of information.

The people are respectful,

You know,

In the words of Tony Robbins,

You know,

Don't use other people's experiences to avoid making your own mistakes.

And this is the page to do it.

And even beyond the Facebook page in this world of regenerative farming and so on,

The,

I don't wanna sound like I'm getting a bit high on the saddle here,

But the caliber of people who are in this space are exceptional,

You know,

Because they've got,

I guess they've got to a point in their lives,

On their journey,

And they wanna change.

And they wanna change not just their practices,

But the way they think,

The way they behave,

The way they engage in community and their,

Yeah,

Their approach is really refreshing.

And that's not to say,

You know,

What they used to do,

I used to do,

You know,

Some conventional world of farming,

For instance,

Was bad.

It's just that there's a heightened sort of,

Heightened level of awareness,

I think,

In people.

You know,

When you just look at the,

I mean,

I have to,

You know,

Plug it again,

The Regenerative Agriculture Group page on Facebook,

Get on there,

And if you're lucky,

Sarah will allow you in,

Or the other girls.

But yeah,

If you've got questions,

Whack them in there,

Because there's so many people who are just so willing to help,

And the comments just go bananas,

In a good way.

They're really,

Again,

A really respectful and productive way,

So.

And again,

It's all that,

It's that questioning.

And for me too,

I'm learning so much,

And finding those resources,

Those golden resources that match,

You know,

That speak to you.

It's like this Richard Perkins book I just received,

You know,

It just speaks to me.

It's just everything.

It's just so affirming that the knowledge,

The path you're on,

It's just,

It's being well-resourced.

Yeah,

Darling.

And.

.

.

It's a big term,

I want that read by tomorrow,

Is that cool?

It's like two inches thick.

Oh my gosh,

There's a word,

Someone just put up on Facebook,

A word for all those people that collect books they never read.

I could be one of them.

Yeah,

I'm thinking,

I'm probably on the cusp of that.

What is it,

What's the word?

Oh,

I'm trying to think.

It'll come to me by the end of this,

How long is it,

Two hours,

This interview?

That's a short one,

A short one's two.

So tell me about books,

What other books will get back to your journey?

Because it hasn't finished yet,

Just while we're on books,

Any other books that have resonated with you that are your go-to,

That you can suggest,

Put you on the spot.

My first one would have been,

I've got a couple of key people that give me books.

Richard Makin is one of them,

Bert Glover.

Bert's got an amazing library and he just keeps,

He's so generous,

He just keeps giving them out and he probably buys more of the same books and gives them out again.

Thanks,

Bert.

And Richard Makin's the same.

Richard Makin,

He's just so generous.

He has a vast library and a vast knowledge and experience.

And just one other person I wanna mention about book lending is David Marsh.

So he gave me a very key book,

A very key time in my questioning,

In my journey,

Called,

It was the Sand Country Aldermen Act by Aldo Huxley.

Aldo Leopold.

Leopold,

Not Huxley.

Yeah,

No,

That was,

Yeah.

He's probably written a Zim on it.

So yes,

Yeah,

That was a gem.

But the book that actually thought,

Put me on the path of,

Oh my gosh,

We can save the world,

Is,

Was a composting book by the Rodale Institute.

Yes.

Why that composting?

Such a humble little practice in the world.

How is that possible?

I mean,

Just that we can make compost on scale with waste products,

For crying out loud,

And apply them to land and nurture the soil,

The health.

And it just feeds back into this healthy system that you're connected with,

You played a part in.

And then I did your biodynamic workshop and we did the,

We made that.

No,

We didn't make a compost,

We made,

Did we?

No,

I think we did make a compost heap.

Well,

It was the manure.

Cow manure concentrate,

We made,

Yeah.

So I did that and then I thought,

Wow.

You got onto that really quickly,

I remember.

You got straight onto it.

Straight away.

Very proud.

I was ready.

You just shot to the top of our list of graduates.

Yeah,

Oh yeah.

And yeah,

And then I made a compost,

Which attributes to the boom in this garden is that I use that compost.

That biodynamic compost I put all over this garden and you can see the benefits,

It's extraordinary.

Can I say,

I have no doubt that because of your diligence and your studious nature and having made your own compost,

That this garden has,

The recovery that it's made has a lot to do with that and the love that you get from being in here.

Yeah,

That's exactly right.

I feel connected with it,

I love it.

It feeds me every day,

You know,

Not just my soul.

That's important,

Isn't it?

Yeah,

It does,

Yeah.

It's integral.

We all need something like that,

Whether it's a potted herb or a large garden.

Another little thing to mention right there is the other thing that influenced me,

I didn't read about it,

I was told about it.

I think it was Richard Maycomb who said it to me first about that RCS message of manage for what you want,

Not what you don't want.

Good call.

And oh my gosh,

I look at this garden now,

The amount of weeds in it,

But I'm not looking at them.

I'm looking at the vibrancy of everything that's living and connecting within the soil.

So those weeds are now part of that system.

So,

And so then- And they're valuable and nutritious as Kristine Jones mentioned yesterday,

She was in a garden,

I can't recall where she was,

Maybe it was here in Armidale.

She was in a garden of a friend and they were growing vegetables and she had marshmallow,

This person,

Sorry,

Had marshmallow and fat hen.

It was,

It was a refugee family that lives down the road from her.

Yeah.

And mallow.

Mallow,

Yeah,

And fat hen.

And Kristine was sort of just,

If you haven't heard of Kristine Jones,

Dr.

Kristine Jones,

Please Google her.

She did an amazing speech.

Well,

She's,

Her website's called amazingcarbon.

Com.

Au.

Yeah,

So,

And she did a great talk at the- Mya Grazing.

Mya Grazing yesterday.

Yeah,

Well,

Let's give them a quick plug because they put on a wonderful day yesterday at Wilmont,

Just near Ebor,

Just east of here,

An hour east of here,

So.

And Mya Grazing is a technology,

It's a program that graziers and farmers can use to basically monitor how much grass they have and how quickly they're eating it.

They can make grazing plans,

They can use it to record their budgeting of grass and their assessments.

So big plug for them,

But I mean,

Not beyond them and that particular game-changing product is the fact they put on a day with Kristine Jones and Jim,

Jim Gerish from the States,

David Marsh and others that were- Toby Grogan.

Toby Grogan from Impact Ag.

Yeah,

He was actually talking about natural capital,

Monetising natural capital.

And that's a whole other conversation.

That is.

Because that's part of your journey,

Part of your story.

And they put on a wonderful day and it was attended by 300,

350 farmers who- Yeah,

And the majority were farmers,

Which was really impressive.

And a big day,

A lot of people turned up there to listen to that.

And what did that say to you?

What were your impressions of the day?

The majority of people I spoke to had come to this day as well questioning,

How do we manage out of this in all these extremes,

The fight,

The fires,

The drought,

The flooding rains,

How do we manage a system in this environment,

Grazing systems or whatever they come up?

I think the majority of them were grazing.

And that they were coming with a question.

I think that that then just gave it that boost.

People were just bright.

I can speak of two farmers in particular,

Well,

Three farmers actually.

So Normie,

Mick and Rachel.

So these are my collaborators.

So this is sort of the next phase in my journey was getting involved with these guys.

They came to this day last year and they were sort of midway in exploring regenerative agriculture in a grazing system.

And then they came again yesterday and it was so affirming for them.

Now they've started to empower themselves through different education.

One of them's done in one of those KLR courses and other one's done holistic management.

And so they're just empowering themselves with that sort of information,

Reading a lot,

Asking questions,

Coming to days like that.

They're on fire.

They're well on their journey and they are loving it.

I have not seen those two men in particular so happy.

And that's the gratifying part of it all.

To be a part of a community of people that love what they do.

They feel connected with what they're doing.

They have a vision for the future and sure,

It's uncertain,

But with those sort of days,

The sorts of tools that are available,

I just think that it's a boom time for agriculture in this country.

And those guys,

Were they farmers,

Were they from a farming background?

Was that their gig?

Yeah,

So well,

Those three that I mentioned,

So Rachel is Rachel Ward.

So it's Rachel and Brian Brown,

Who are my neighbours at the coast.

So how it came to be a landowner.

So I did mention early on that I didn't think landowning would be a part of my path,

But through great generosity of my family,

They gave me this patch of land,

A hundred acres down at the coast between Maxwell and Teller's Arm.

Beautiful,

Beautiful part of the world.

And my neighbours are Brian Brown and Rachel Ward,

Which is wonderful.

You know,

Lovely people I've got to know over the last 20 odd years.

And Mick Green.

So I'm between the Browns and the Greens.

And the Schmooders.

And so we decided three odd years ago,

When dad,

Mum and dad gave me the country,

They said,

You know,

I felt like a steward more than anything.

It didn't feel like I owned it.

And I started talking this way with Mick.

And we just found that we're really aligned in a lot of ways.

He'd done a lot of reading around with Joel Salatin.

Just,

And Mick has a community spirit.

It's like,

You know,

Mick,

I think he won an award a couple of years ago,

One of those Australia Day Awards.

So just being the best guy in the community.

Just being good top bloke.

Yeah,

Just being,

Yeah.

The award for- He just can't do enough for people.

He's just beautiful.

And so I've got him as a neighbour.

So we just started talking about,

Well,

You know,

If we want to achieve here,

How about we bring our herds together?

So I had 58 of cattle.

He had 50.

The Browns had 200.

They had the majority of land.

So they've got about 800 acres.

We've got a hundred each.

And we've been mob grazing for the last two and a half years using mire grazing as a tool as well.

So that was something that came out of Wilmot a year ago and really effective.

But the last year we've been in drought,

They call it a green drought down there.

So you saw green grass,

But there's very poor nutrition and it's a cow calf sort of operation.

So it was a lot of unknown territory,

But I also wanted to give a little plug to Lee Fieldhouse.

He helped me to appreciate the biology of the soil,

The activity and how you can stimulate that through biologicals.

So aligning with sort of the biodynamic side of things as well.

I hadn't really appreciated the biodynamic,

The application of that,

But at that time.

So I applied Biocar.

So it's the worm castings that it's a special concoction that Lee comes up with.

And he gives you this catalyst.

So you just add that and then you just spray it out on your farm.

And so we did that about 18 months ago.

And now,

So yesterday Mick told me,

My country is responding amazingly and he's comparing it to the other paddocks we're using all the same system.

They've been managed the same way for decades and mine is responding.

And I stopped using chemical as well,

Three years ago.

I also integrated some multi-species.

So I did the whole 12.

Mick was on that came up with that.

So he did three paddocks across the three properties and did this multi-species crop but mine is responding like out of sight.

And he said,

He puts it down to that biocast.

And so it can take two years to respond and that's working with nature.

So you start to find these rhythms,

The things start to function,

Your mineral cycles and your water cycles.

I mean,

That's really important down there because water cycling,

We've got really low nutrition in our past is because we've got such high rainfall.

So it's about understanding that and integrating different species into it so we can further our herd and build its capacity,

Whether that's more numbers or whether that's just a different outcomes.

It's a moving face.

There's no,

When we talk about adapting to our climate,

We just got to adapt these systems,

We adapt our minds all the time.

It's like you've said,

And I love it,

Change,

Is it the ruse at the top?

The ruse at the top,

No,

That's an expression.

Like I think there.

.

.

No,

That's right.

You haven't got too many ruses at the top.

No,

It's changed the,

Yes,

Change the space between your ears.

Yeah,

Change the paddock between your ears first.

That's it,

Paddock between your ears.

Is there anything that you could suggest to people on that topic and the paddock between monsieurs that,

You know,

Not mattering whether they've got country near you down on the coast or they're at Armidale or they're at Armatree or anywhere,

You know,

Is there anything that you could suggest people could think about that might help,

You know,

Change?

Not that we want people to just go and change the paddock between their ears for the hell of it.

I mean,

People get to a point.

How can you sort of encourage or suggest people get to a point or have the courage to do that?

Is there anything that springs to mind or how did you.

.

.

Oh,

Really?

So I get a little bit of criticism,

Actually a lot,

Because people think that it's been easy for me to take this,

To go on this journey because it's not my primary income.

And you hear it a lot where they go,

Oh,

You know,

You can go into regenerative because you're not dependent,

You know,

You're not thinking about the,

You know,

You need the production outcomes to be able to meet your debt needs or your,

You know,

Your boarding school fees or whatever it is.

So I have,

In a sense,

Had that luxury,

But I think,

So maybe this is where I talk to some farmers and I talk about monetising natural capital.

Maybe this is where that plays in,

You know,

Maybe it is,

It's just too hard for mainstream to transition and it needs to have a dollar value because there is a public benefit attached to building our natural capital,

You know,

Regenerating our systems,

Making all those things work and a dollar value,

You know,

In the form of an accu,

You know,

We talk about carbon farming now.

Carbon farming has been around for 15 years,

You know,

2006,

I think it started,

But there's been a lot of hurdles.

And now I'm a part of a group,

Impact Ag,

Who are looking at monetising.

So they're coming from a position of their asset managers.

So they already have a lot of on-ground management happening and they're using regenerative agricultural principles and practices to do,

To achieve good outcomes,

Great outcomes,

You know,

Wilmot's a great example of that.

And so it's a matter of,

Well,

Okay,

This is,

These practices can be highly productive.

So let's try and get a greater community on board with this.

So we monetise natural capital,

Whether it be biodiversity or carbon,

I mean,

Carbon's a good one because it's already getting established and it's got a marketplace.

You can,

You know,

You can trade your accus.

So it's about getting- What do you say,

Accu,

What are we doing?

Okay,

Australian Carbon Credit Unit.

So this is the Australian government through the Emissions Production Fund,

Making carbon,

Drawing down carbon out of our atmosphere so we can meet our 2020,

2030 Paris Agreement of reducing our emissions by so much.

So there's so many emissions we can reduce,

But through agriculture,

We can actually sequester carbon.

So we can actually reverse the effects that they're trying to target,

You know,

To draw down this carbon into the soil.

So it's agriculture that can do that.

And with regenerative practices,

With carbon farming,

You can achieve that.

And an impact agro about supporting communities,

Possibly the potential is that we aggregate projects.

So your everyday farmers,

Like there's farming families out there that are struggling out of this drought,

And in some cases affected by fire and now flooding rains.

So lost a lot of their natural capital.

So it's about getting,

Asking the question first,

You know,

How do I get out of this?

Getting educated,

Finding,

You know,

Finding those resources,

Whether they be human resources or books or,

You know,

Podcasts.

Yeah.

Podcasts.

Yeah,

The best ones.

I know,

Far out.

Boom time podcasts.

And they really informed me to,

Oh,

We can't go down that path of podcasts.

Well,

We can.

Oh,

Far out.

I'm happy to plug other podcasts.

Okay.

All right,

We'll go write that down.

Podcasts,

Podcasts is an amazing resource,

But it is about educating those farmers and then helping them to transition to more,

Building their natural capital,

Holding onto it,

Drawing down carbon into their soils,

Finding the potential to make that happen.

And Impact Ag is one of those ones that can aggregate the smaller farmers.

So help them transition into more regenerative practices as well as support them in going into a carbon farming initiative.

So a website for those guys?

How can that help?

Impact.

How can that help people?

So impactag.

Com.

Au.

Yeah,

Nice.

Impact.

And just before,

Natural capital,

Because it's not necessarily a new term,

But it's being heard with more frequency.

What does it mean?

So farmers can actually go,

Oh,

I've got that.

Soil,

Air,

Water,

Vegetation,

Biodiversity.

Biodiversity,

I mean,

We've been talking about biodiversity in land care for generations.

No,

Not that long.

I mean,

That's been going for 30 odd years,

But biodiversity,

A real key in your soils.

It's understanding your soils.

So understanding the,

Making it effective,

Building its structure.

So I saw yesterday,

Actually,

For the first time I'd seen it,

Is the pyramid of soil health.

Did you see that one where it had the chemical?

Yeah,

Chemical at the top.

So it was the reverse.

So it had the chemical component,

The physical component,

And then the biological component.

Biological was massive.

Yeah.

And the biological component is really only starting to be understood,

You know,

That,

The value of that.

So when we talk about natural capital,

I think that that is central.

You know,

It's the bio,

The biological components of your vegetation,

Your soil,

Even your water.

I mean,

It all is a site.

It's all a,

You know,

An integrative system.

And understanding that,

You know,

And that's your natural capital.

And if you can build that,

If you can regenerate that,

And you can attach it to an accue,

Then you've got the potential to make money.

So I can give you a little example,

If you like,

Of making money out of this.

Example away.

Well,

All right.

So say you're in a grazing system,

And it's set stocking.

So,

Well,

You can still be rotational,

But if you move into something that's more about,

You know,

Migrational sort of patterns and using your livestock to regenerate your land,

It's more about those restoration periods.

So opposed to set stocking and rotational,

You're looking at lengthy restoration periods.

So giving your land a rest so it can regenerate.

And there's lots of lessons out of that.

You've got to understand,

You know,

What are the different species you're working with,

Your different forbs and your herds and your grasses and your perennials,

And you know,

How does that system regenerate?

So it's looking at that.

So if you invest in carbon farming,

You're gonna start understanding how that,

How that,

You know,

That system works,

How it regenerates.

So you're gonna be drawing down more carbon through photosynthesis into your soil.

So if you do this,

You have got the capacity to raise the percentage,

The carbon percentage in your soil.

So by,

You know,

By whatever percentages.

So say your carbon levels are at around one,

You know,

Coming out of drought.

That's,

That's quite a standard to know.

When I talk to people,

They look at their soil tests,

Many soil tests,

Which are not completely accurate to say what the carbon level is in your soil.

You need to consider bulk density and the carbon levels together.

And that's not often in your,

Your run of the mill soil sample,

Which I've just come to understand.

Thank you,

Maya Grazing.

From yesterday.

Yes,

From yesterday.

I didn't know about the bulk density measurement.

Always learning.

So,

So if you raise your soil carbon level by 1%,

Just 1%,

Now this is just figures that I've,

I've come to understand.

You are drawing down 122 tonne of CO2 into your soil.

So that has the potential to generate 122 ACUs units.

So strain carbon units.

Is this in a hectare?

Per hectare.

Per hectare,

Good.

And what,

What are we,

What are we talking about in terms of the dollar value you attach to that currently?

Do we know it?

Currently,

Yeah.

Do we do some numbers on that?

Yeah,

So there's,

There's different markets you can go in.

You can go into the Australian market,

You can go into the government market through the ARF,

Or you can go into private markets and they're international.

And they're very lucrative in Europe and the America at the moment,

Because they're quite established.

And there's a real,

You know,

There's a acknowledgement that this is really important to grow out loud.

And Australia has got,

We've got great potential in this country to achieve this.

So I think the government would be very wise to get as many people on board,

You know,

Through education and through,

You know,

Just empowering them to be able to,

To generate their natural capital by drawing down the carbon in the soil.

So you can,

So in one hectare,

So what's,

So the current market is $15.

50,

Roughly.

For one accue.

For one accue.

Get out of here.

Times 122.

Yeah,

That's a thousand and something.

That's a lot.

Yeah,

That's a lot.

Yeah.

So,

And that's 1%.

And if you think you've got,

You know,

500 hectares is a reasonable size to,

So in sort of average farm around here,

Around the New England,

There's bigger ones obviously out West and in Queensland and South Australia,

Wherever,

But,

And look,

You'll generate carbon at a different rate.

It depends on your management practice.

And so I have heard people talk about,

Or bandy around how they can raise their carbon three and four and 5%.

So the potential there with a practice change is you can,

You can generate a lot of dollars.

So roughly I'm just using,

I'm just simplifying.

So,

So that's a hundred dollars.

So it's a hundred accues per hectare,

1% carbon,

Increasing carbon at $15.

Well,

It's $1500 a hectare.

That's actually being observed because it's actually 120,

So it's more,

We're more like 17.

100 per hectare.

And that's not bad.

And then times that by a number of hectares and a stroke,

You got a thousand acres.

Yeah.

Or a thousand hectares.

Sorry,

A thousand hectares.

Stroos.

Yeah.

So,

And you were doing this for not just,

I mean,

This is,

This is securing your land.

This is building resilience into your operations.

And it's a long-term agreement that people have to make.

So it is a commitment.

Government don't want everyone to turn around and go and plow up the country and release all the carbon back into the atmosphere.

Yeah.

So it's,

It is a commitment.

And,

And I don't know,

I'd see great benefits,

You know,

All around.

Community,

Social,

Economic,

Environmental,

Like just ticks every single box.

And along the way,

You can love what you're doing.

You know,

You can really feel a part of,

You know,

Something greater,

Not just,

You know,

It's about meeting those needs.

It's about,

You know,

The greater good.

And also family.

I mean,

It creates resilience in a business.

The healthier the soil and the higher the organic matter and carbon levels in soil,

Creates a more resilient business.

And that's something that I think is pretty necessary for children to want to come home to,

You know,

If when they finish school and they,

You know,

That they actually want to be inheriting or being given or buying or whatever,

However it works.

A business that is set up,

Environmentally,

Ecologically,

Financially,

Culturally,

For the future.

Not a bad gig.

Little,

Little,

Lordy.

Lordy,

The Lord.

He's only got another 16 years and he's there.

He is,

I don't,

I think it's only a couple of years where he's already telling me what to do.

I'd love that for my children too,

That I would love the opportunity for them to return to the land.

Well,

I have one in particular,

My youngest,

Monty,

He's very keen on the land.

So,

You know,

This is a path I'd like to pursue as well.

And I think it's important to,

You know,

Create as we were saying before,

You know,

The luck,

Or you can even replace that luck with success.

You know,

You've got a few words in there,

Is the confluence of preparation and opportunity.

You know,

In a way,

In a sense,

You're preparing him,

You know,

He obviously has some innate yearnings for the land and nature and interest,

But preparing him,

His mind,

His body,

His,

You know,

His world for the opportunity that will present itself at some point is really important.

You know,

Whether it's the opportunity to buy a property or inherit a property or to,

You know,

But I think that's,

There's something in that for us.

As I do say to,

As I am,

As I said before,

You know,

Our job as parents is to prepare our children to leave us and we want to,

You know,

We want to make sure,

I think,

It's our responsibility to make sure that we give them the opportunity.

We don't force them into things and we don't push them onto things.

And we have to be open-minded in our approaches and what we expose our kids to.

But I think,

You know,

I don't think anyone could argue that a child that is brought up in nature with a respect and an understanding of and feeling they have a place or a part of nature is,

I don't think that's,

It can't be a bad thing.

You know,

Whether it's going into a corporate job,

Going to a farm,

In hospo,

I don't know,

Anything,

You know,

In the world of Steiner,

We talk about the first seven years of a child's life,

They become familiar with and comfortable with themselves and nature because they are part of nature,

You know,

As an individual functioning interdependently with nature,

You know,

And if they have that grounding,

That foundation understanding,

It doesn't matter where they end up.

They,

I believe they have a better chance of ending up where they need to,

Where they want to.

Because we don't always work that out,

Do we,

Till we're,

I don't know,

Standing,

Pulling beers at the cool be pub.

That's right.

And so just recently,

I think I can use Rachel as an example.

So Rachel Ward,

Who's in that transitional phase herself,

I think she's a good example.

You know,

She'd,

So we've been,

She's been farming land for 30 years and not asking the question,

Just going,

You know,

We're just sort of taking for granted.

We produce beautiful beef in a beautiful part of the world and we've got Mick there to,

You know,

Guide us and use all the practices,

All his knowledge.

But she just,

She came,

There was a catalyst for change.

And I think,

Well,

From what I take,

From the conversations we've had is it was a fire.

So the weekend before her daughter's wedding,

She was getting married in the garden down at the farm.

And it's a place called Yutongin,

Right?

So this is the area we live in.

Probably name?

No,

No,

No.

Little area we live in.

Little rural locality.

Yutongin.

Yeah,

Cool.

Meaning place of many frogs.

So it's beautiful.

Oh wow.

You know,

You go down there,

It's just a cacophony of noise from frogs.

It's just beautiful.

Well,

The good news is the frogs are still there.

They are.

That's a traditional name.

That's great.

Yes,

Yes.

And so her daughter,

Matilda,

Was getting married and it was all beautifully planned.

And Rachel had everything beautifully orchestrated.

She had the community involved.

She had people,

150 guests.

They're all being billeted out to different people in the community because everyone loves Rachel down there.

She's just got this great community spirit and very inclusive,

Lovely person.

So she was using my house down at the farm and I was really stoked.

I was like,

Great,

You can use it.

And so it's the week before the wedding,

The weekend before,

And the fire hit a place called Burupin.

And I'm not sure if it's a national park or a nature reserve,

But it hit there and with winds and the conditions,

It was just ripe for a very ferocious fire.

And we had,

So it hit on one day.

So this is the 8th of November.

On a Thursday.

And it just took off.

And I got a phone call from Mick.

I was in Armidale.

I was part of a music festival and heavily involved.

So I had full commitment here.

And Dave was,

My husband was busy as well.

And Mick called up and he goes,

Just prepare yourself for the worst.

And so this,

And that,

You know,

In that day I could just,

I heard the fear in Mick's voice.

Like he was just like shaking and he's one of,

He's part of the RFS.

He said,

We're a small team.

And there's a couple of 70 year olds.

And I'm like,

Oh,

Heaven for heaven's sake.

So they evacuated the whole valley and it was 360 degree fire.

Rachel and my farm and Mick's farm are right in the middle of it.

And then on that night,

So we call it our 9-11.

I don't know if that's justified,

But anyway.

It was on the 9th of the 11th and it was in the middle of the night.

And the wind direction,

This firestorm came in and the wind changed direction.

It just took my house.

It just went to the ground in a very short space of time.

Mick called me when it happened and he's filming it as well.

It's like,

I'm seeing it burn down.

And he was just,

He was distraught.

And everyone was like,

It's a,

You know.

Yeah,

It's a devastating event and it affects everyone.

You know,

Everyone is seeing the landscape scale of it.

They're,

You know,

There's the blame game happening.

It's like,

How could this occur?

And you know,

Is it our fault?

Is it,

You know,

All these other reasons.

So that was a big catalyst,

I think,

For Rachel to just open up.

She just went,

Oh,

There's gotta be change in this country.

So she started asking the question about regenerative agriculture.

So we'd been banding this around,

Myself and Mick and Normie,

For two years with Rachel and Brian.

And they just hadn't come to ask the question yet.

So Rachel asked the question,

Red call of the red wall blow.

Just went,

What?

Have I been living under a rock?

Sorry,

Rachel.

But her mind's blown and now she's just on this new path.

She was at Wilmot yesterday and she's just,

It's,

You know,

It's electrifying her enthusiasm now.

She's looking at making a film,

A little doco,

Just interviewing various people on different parts of their journey.

But also looking at the climate science behind it.

She's looking at,

You know,

Interviewing people like Alistair MacLeod,

Who's a very successful businessman in this space,

Who's making big investments in regenerative agriculture.

So,

You know,

It's that,

It's that catalyst for change.

You need to be asking the question.

You need just to,

Just that kickstart,

Whether it be a drought,

Whether it be a flood,

Rains,

Or fires.

It's hard to say fires.

Like I didn't think I'd be,

I'm a little bit,

I'm still very fragile after that.

Thank you for sharing that.

It's three months and it was really meaningful to me too.

It was a good catalyst.

I didn't need the catalyst to change into my thinking of,

About around Regenerative Ag,

But it taught me about being brave and courageous and getting the tools to do what I want to do.

And so carbon farming is going to be a big part of that too.

I think,

You know,

My being brave and making a change myself.

So did the fire experience of that,

Did that sort of sharpen your pencil to head in a particular direction or just to grab the tools and run?

Yeah,

It did.

And my husband,

You know,

We're like,

Well,

We're middle-aged.

And our children are,

You know,

They're growing too.

They're at a point they're independent.

So it's like,

Well,

Let's get back to us and where we want to go in life.

So,

And regenerative ag will play a very big part in that for me.

And my husband,

He's a progressive,

He's a community spirit man,

And he'll do,

You know,

He'll follow his path too.

So it is,

It's that catalyst.

And again,

Asking questions.

We're going to have to leave it there,

Sarah.

I think that is possibly the best way we could end is just to encourage people to ask questions.

And I've always said,

Ask yourself better questions.

Cause that's how I started.

Part of the journey I went on was,

I was taught and I was beaten into me really,

Not beaten into,

Shouldn't say that,

But it was emphasised strongly having done grazing for profit with RCS,

Resource Consulting Service Australia,

That,

You know,

We as farmers have to ask ourselves better questions about what we're doing,

Who we are.

You know,

We are not what we do.

And I think farmers often just get stuck in that.

I'm a farmer and I've got a farm and I've got a farm the way I have forever.

So thank you,

Sarah.

I'm going to start asking myself even better questions now on the back of that.

And you've really inspired me to,

Well,

Ask better questions and actually,

You know,

The consideration of the fire thing certainly has been on my mind.

Can we avoid,

Can we have an opportunity,

I believe,

To avoid this happening in the future in some way?

I don't have the answers.

I don't have the timeframes,

But I just know that what you're doing,

What we're doing,

What a lot of people are doing and their practices and philosophy can have a role to play in avoiding such a catastrophe again,

You know,

Large scale,

Small scale,

Small scale.

Yep,

I agree.

And bring more people to the table.

All the knowledge we can use,

You know.

Totally.

It's all there.

All inclusive.

Sarah,

Thank you so much.

And thank you for sharing your wonderful garden because it's just,

I love doing those things outside because it's just,

We're in nature.

Nature is inspiring us.

We're channeling it.

Well done.

Thanks Charlie.

Thanks,

And you said you couldn't talk for,

I know,

You've gone over time.

No,

This is great.

We can keep talking.

We'll do a part two.

The podcast,

We've got to do the podcast one.

Oh yeah.

Our favorite podcast.

Yeah,

Do it.

Oh no,

Well I've got,

All right.

Well,

Okay,

One Regen Ag one and one.

So my Regen Ag one would be with John Kempf from the States.

Do you know him?

Yes,

Not,

But I know of him,

Yes.

Oh yeah,

Yeah.

So he has a podcast,

You know,

Eco Agriculture Podcast,

I think it's called.

Anyway,

Just Google John Kempf podcast.

He is just,

He's been doing this for ages.

You know,

Might be 15 years he's been talking.

Yeah.

You know,

Banding this around,

But very articulate,

Very well researched.

And yeah,

I identify with him,

But,

And my other one is 99% invisible,

Which you haven't listened to.

No.

No,

No,

No.

It's American and it's 99% invisible is about all those,

All those things that we never,

We just take for granted.

Just,

You know,

To do with design and technology and whatever,

All those things that govern how we exist in the world.

And it's,

Yeah,

It's just a really good storytelling piece.

Roman Mars.

He does it,

Does he?

Roman Mars,

He's got the voice.

Yeah.

And you've got the voice,

I think.

I don't know if I have.

I'm a bit croaky this morning.

Not cause I was on the grog or anything.

I mean off the grog,

But because it's the morning.

My vocal cords are warming up.

And we haven't had breakfast yet.

No,

We haven't,

But we've had such a lovely morning.

Still in my slippers.

You are too.

You're great.

I'm not,

I'm in my blunnies.

Sarah,

Thank you.

We better wrap it up then.

Yeah,

All right.

Thank you.

Check ends.

Yeah,

No,

Let's do that.

Cheers.

That was so fun.

See you in part B,

Part two.

All right,

Yeah.

See you.

Well,

What a wonderful conversation I was able to have there with Sarah in her garden at Armidale.

Beautiful spot to be having a chat with her.

Really inspiration to many regenerative farmers and people thinking,

You know,

Thinking about coming into the industry and just stepping their way softly into there.

With her Facebook page,

The Regenerative Agriculture Group page of fantastic font of information.

Talking about fonts of information,

Our next interview is with Corey Hancock.

You might know him better as the Environmental Cowboy.

We really dug deep on,

You know,

How he sort of came up with or created his,

The persona of the Environmental Cowboy.

And more importantly,

Really why.

We look at all sorts of issues or matters,

I should say,

Environmental matters.

And he's doing a fantastic job of advocating for real conscientiousness about our environment,

Where we're headed,

What we're really creating for our children to inherit.

So we have some choices to make about how we do that.

And Corey's doing a fantastic job of giving us some options.

Now don't forget to subscribe,

Comment,

Share and generally get involved with the Regenerative Journey podcast.

Really excited to be sharing our next interview with,

Which is Corey Hancock.

For more episode information,

Please head over to www.

Charleyharnett.

Com.

Au.

This podcast is produced by Rhys Jones at Yeager Media.

And as the recipient of the Bob Hawke Landcare Award,

Charlie would like to thank Landcare Australia for their support in the creation of this first series of the Regenerative Journey.

Of the.