The Regenerative Journey | Part 2 | Farming Matters Conf.

It's tough,

You know,

We're taking on the industry and it's not always fun,

But it's hugely rewarding.

But I need the eaters,

As you call them,

To get on board and shop this because then that will send the direct signal up the supply chain for farmers,

Producers,

Makers,

Suppliers to be in this space.

They'll go,

Ah,

This is worth it.

And that will keep,

That'll drive the engine and that will help the environment in the end.

I'm Courtney McGregor and you're listening to The Regenerative Journey.

We acknowledge the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia and internationally and their continuing connection to country,

Culture,

Community,

Land,

Sea and sky.

And we pay our respects to elders past,

Present and emerging.

G'day,

I'm your host Charlie Arnott,

An eighth generational Australian regenerative farmer.

And in this podcast series,

I'll be diving deep and exploring my guests' unique perspectives on the world so you can apply their experience and knowledge to cultivate your own transition to a more regenerative way of life.

Welcome to The Regenerative Journey with your host Charlie Arnott.

G'day,

We're back at it again,

Part two of the interview that I put together for,

Or at I should say,

The Lander Market Farming Matters Conference there in Albury just a few weeks ago.

So first up on this part,

Sam Johnson from Boscum Grazing,

Not living too far from here.

He and his wife,

Claire and family have a wonderful farming enterprise there with their own farm butchering set up.

Fascinating conversation with Sam there,

Lovely guy too.

Nice to know he lives in the hood here,

Not too far away.

David Marsh,

Of course,

Always a good yarn.

We went all over the place there as we usually do.

Really enjoy,

Always enjoy my chats with David Marsh,

Fascinating chap.

So he wasn't actually presenting,

But he was there.

So I grabbed him as I try to do as often as I can.

Stephanie McGregor,

She follows up David Marsh.

She's a sustainability officer at Harris Farm Market.

And I've been working with Courtney and the Harris boys for over a year now,

Putting together this It's All in the Soil campaign and helping verify their suppliers that can contribute and be identified in store to that campaign.

So we chat about the significance of that in the regenerative farming space,

The new shop and all will be there and their contribution to the conference.

And then the end of the follow up,

I should say of part two,

Harry Youngman,

Who is a very interesting guy.

I met Harry a couple of years ago.

He did speak,

He did a little preso at the conference.

He's a sort of,

I guess,

A founder of the Tiverton Agriculture Impact Fund.

He's a clean soil carbon man and involved in that marketplace and also compost making,

Farming,

Fascinating,

Got a finger and all sorts of pies as Harry.

But I'll catch up with him for a proper interview at some stage.

So here we had a yarn as well and that was fantastic.

And for anyone who loves me,

Terry McOsker,

I did a fascinating half an hour chat with Terry.

I'm not sure of the time because all the others were about 10,

15 minutes,

20 most max,

I should say.

Terry,

I caught him at the very end of the day.

I nearly stood him up.

Actually,

I did stand him up.

At the end of the day there,

Forgot where I was going to meet him.

But I've got that as half an hour and that won't be on this one.

That's going to be a bonus interview for our patron members.

So anyone out there who's interested in Terry McOsker,

Who I am lining up to do a proper interview at some point,

But I just caught him there at Albury the other day,

Thankfully,

Half an hour interview.

If you want to hear that,

Jump on to our patron platform,

Sign up for a membership of those two tiers there.

Choose the membership.

You'll have to choose the higher membership if you want to listen to Terry and many other member benefits as it were.

And just before we jump into the interview,

I just want to let you know and remind you that Hamish Mackay and I will be down in South Australia with all those wonderful Crow editors down there at Barossa.

The Barossa Valley on the 3rd and 4th of May at the Alkina Wine Estate,

There were Dan and Amelia and all those wonderful people.

Now just to make a note of that,

We are just talking about how biodynamics applies to wine and viticulture.

It is about horticulture,

It's about broad acreage,

It's about small scale garden.

It's whatever you want to,

However you want to apply biodynamics to your world and your life.

We are there on the 3rd and 4th of May in the Barossa Valley at the Alkina Wine Estate and on the 6th and 7th of May,

That's later in that same week at McLaren Valley,

Gem Tree Wines there with Melissa and Michael who produce some amazing wines as does the Alkina Estate.

So just to reinforce that,

You don't have to be a wine grower,

You might want to be a grape eater,

But not a wine grower or a wine maker to come to these courses down there in South Australia.

They are open to everyone,

So spread the news far and wide,

We'd love to see you there.

Tickets available on charliearnett.

Com.

Au and get all the details and tickets there.

I hope you enjoyed part 2 of the Albury Conference compilation.

We're on again,

My next victim.

Dragged him out.

I did,

By the scruff of the neck.

Sam Johnson,

Sam is one half of Box Gum Grazing.

One fifth now.

I was going to say,

There's more tours now.

Sits there and Sam and Bella Molly too.

I'm a part of,

A declining part.

He's one fifth.

He's the cornerstone,

Aren't you?

Claire and I.

Claire and I,

Yeah,

You're cornerstones of the business.

Box Gum Grazing.

Sam was very generous in his presentation last night at the,

I guess it was the opening reception of the Farming Matters Conference here in Albury and shared his story of what they do there at Moringo.

Actually,

You know what,

I had a beef with you because you said,

Oh,

We're near Young.

And I went,

Yeah,

Bloody,

You should be saying you're near Boorowa.

Are you close to the Boorowa or Young?

No,

No,

No,

25 k's to Young.

And how many to Boorowa?

Oh,

Sorry.

No,

You're probably right.

Five to Young and 40 to Boorowa.

Oh,

So you are close to Young.

Very close.

I thought you'd be going,

Oh,

I'm a proud member of the Boorowa community.

Anyway,

No,

Let's put that aside.

You're forgiven.

And about what Johnson family are doing there,

Which is fantastic.

So we don't need to know all the details,

Sam,

But I guess,

Can you give our,

Well,

We're going to break this up into two bits.

I want to know about you and Box Gum Grazing,

Just so our listeners can understand what I guess the innovation that you've sort of implemented there and then get your view on the conference so far.

Let's start with Box Gum Grazing.

I think that's the place to start.

Okay.

Well,

Box Gum Grazing is a family farm there at Young in the woodlands.

And we're doing a paddock to plate operation,

Selling grass-fed beef,

Lamb and free range pork.

And we've also gone into vertical integration.

So we have set up a butcher shop on farm to do all the boning and packing and smoking.

And then we market everything ourselves direct to customers,

Either locally or predominantly in Canberra and restaurants in Canberra.

And we're just starting to branch a little bit into delivering to Sydney if we can get the logistics worked out.

Are you doing,

As in someone else is going to come?

We'll hopefully,

Yeah,

If we can find a good reliable transport network.

We've certainly had demand from there,

But at this stage,

Predominantly Canberra's our market.

Feather and Barn,

You do any of that?

No,

I know Grant quite well and sort of talked with him over many years.

I saw Grant sneaking around today.

Yes.

No,

I had a good yarn with him at lunch.

And we have sold to him in the past,

But no,

We've sort of focused in Canberra.

And our whole thing has been about rebuilding biodiversity on the farm and the resilience of the farm and also bringing livelihoods back onto the farm.

So we've brought the processing and marketing back under our umbrella,

Which has allowed us to have the salaries for the next generations coming through and allowed the next generations to step up into management and sort of us to ease back a bit and play a different role as we get older.

And also particularly how to have a productive agricultural farm within a woodland habitat.

We really want to have that improving and developing,

Increasing biodiversity for native species of all types.

So yeah,

Just how we can balance those two things or work those two things.

I think that's a point you made last night was that you're incorporating,

I guess,

The habitat,

The natural and the regenerated habitat with production.

Yes.

Yeah.

So it's not like you're operating over there in isolation,

Using the cows and whatever over here.

No,

No.

Very much trying to bring conservation and production together.

And also the realisation that farmers control so much land that it's up to us to be responsible for the biodiversity.

We can't rely on national parks or non-farmed areas to support the biodiversity.

Biodiversity is just good of its own,

But it's also very good for our productive capacity,

Resilience and the beauty it brings to the landscape.

So that's part of our remit too.

And Box Gum Grassy Woodland for those who aren't familiar with it is a,

I think they classify it as a,

You might have the right term,

Sensitive or endangered.

It's an endangered eco type.

Yeah,

Ecosystem.

So I guess it has to be some,

I guess,

Reasonable amount of consideration as to what you're planting there or management or you're planting exotics as well?

Well we don't plant anything.

We haven't planted anything and it's,

Look,

It's not a case of just having natives or whatever,

All we try to do is work so that the ecological processes on the land are very functional and whatever species are in the mix are what we work with.

And all of these species,

Either weeds or introduced grasses or shrubs or whatever,

Are really naturalised.

They're part of the environment now.

So there's no putting up a demarcation.

And so we're finding a native grass species and introduced species spreading across different areas of the farm in different ways.

You get some farm niches that support introduced ones,

Other areas the natives will dominate,

Sometimes they co-exist quite well together.

And I think that's our best option.

There's no use,

We've just got to work with the ecological processes as they're happening and ecology is constantly evolving.

That's a real paradigm shift isn't it?

I think David Marsh,

He talks about that a lot and about sort of stepping away from control.

And I think if we can,

Our job is to restore that health and vigour and whatever way the ecology develops is probably the best way it's going to develop.

And for us to try to block the process,

One,

Will be very expensive and may degrade that vitality and it's that vitality that will build the soils again and what have you.

And we find native birds eating introduced seeds.

It's part of their food cycle now.

As you say,

That whole system is naturalised because it's there and we can either keep fighting it and try to rip it out or poison it or disturb it in some way or just go well let's,

It is probably,

As you said,

It's probably the best thing to be there right now because nature's decided that that needs to be there.

Well they're there and so it's an altered ecology from what it was but ecology is always in transition.

You never get to a point where it stays fixed.

You get a weather event that'll take species out for a while or encourage them.

And I think what we do by not having the imagination to allow those species in is that we basically lower the vitality of what we're dealing with.

And I think that's to,

Well ecological detriment,

But to our detriment too.

I just want to switch to business or I guess I'm just really,

Because some years ago you were kind enough to give us a tour of your,

It wasn't actually,

Hadn't been up and going.

No I don't think we,

Did we have the butchery in then?

I can't remember because it was,

Gee whiz,

That was probably four,

It should be four years ago now at least.

Can we talk about that?

I mean I guess my,

I'm curious to know like,

And you mentioned about now there's salaries that you can afford it to family members and so on.

And that for me is a dream to do that.

And then certainly not a pipe,

It's like,

I really love to do that because I can see the value.

So really it was a matter of,

You mentioned last night,

We're paying X amount to butchers to do a job that we could do.

So there's that essentially an offset,

That saving.

There's obviously the initial setup cost of the overhead or the capital improvement of setting up the butcher shop.

But it's clearly been a good move.

It's been a well worthwhile move.

And it was really driven by Sid when he decided to come back home.

You know Claire and I may have been quite happy if it was just us utilising the services of our local butcher but we got to a point there where it was starting to impact on his business.

Year on.

So as in you were growing and he was finding hard to fit us in.

So we left in very amicable terms.

And in terms of being in charge of the quality and the transparency all the way through the process,

It's way in front.

And also for us learning,

As now the butchers,

About the different cuts,

The way they're handled,

How they need to be cooked.

We've learnt a whole lot about what it is we're selling before we put it in the bag.

So yeah,

It's been very positive that way.

And I think certainly with any business there are weak links and certainly with our business there's the production side and then the processing.

So the butchers,

The abattoirs are all points of weak links.

If one of them drops out,

I mean we're in trouble that way.

Then there's the transport and the marketing side.

So you're in control of more of those pieces.

Yes,

Not the abattoir side.

We use the local abattoir.

And would you ever consider putting a on-farm abattoir?

Look,

I think from the animal point of view it would be great.

I think the only issue is the costs involved and the regulation around it is,

At my stage of life I don't know if I would.

We did build a small poultry abattoir back in the 90s and that was quite doable.

It was not too expensive.

Once you step up to the bigger animals you're talking pretty serious size operation and what have you.

So look,

I wouldn't do that unless we were forced but then certainly we'd consider it seriously.

So a big step forward just by having that processing facility on-farm there now anyway.

Okay.

Let's go to the conference Sam.

We are at our Bring the Farming Matters conference and we're sort of heading into the afternoons chit chat.

There's a panel session happening at the moment.

What are your thoughts?

Any sort of nuggets of gold that have been put on the table in front of Sam Johnson today and you've gone,

Oh my God.

Look I think a lot of it was a reiteration of concepts but just put really well.

I think Terry McOsker and Walter Jenner just talking about the way in which carbon moves into the soil the most effective way we as land managers can understand that process and build on that process was really good.

Talking about the mycorrhizal life and the liquid carbon pathway and where we as managers can actually really work to get that carbon under the soil doing all the great stuff it does.

I think that was a great,

You know that was something that really hit home.

Good reinforcement.

Yeah.

Isn't it a relief,

And it's a relief reassuring that those guys,

Terry and Walter are still at it after all these years?

And I think their words are falling a more fertile ground now.

When they started out they were in the wilderness a bit but now I think we're starting to understand really a bit about our knowledge of these systems has grown a lot more and particularly of the role of soil life.

It was just pushed so into the background with chemistry that it's now actually taking the right place.

And as a land manager that's fantastic because we're working with plants.

With biology.

And biology.

And if we're getting these messages that these are the things we need to work with then that's a great way to be.

Not that we have to but any tips or any suggestions or how do you find,

You're at the coal face as it were with your eaters,

Your customers in Canberra at Epic Markets?

At the Epic Markets.

What are you seeing in that interface there?

People a bit more excited?

Do they get numbers?

I think so.

I think when we first started out a lot of people approached us for animal welfare issues.

Particularly around pigs.

And we deliberately started with pigs because we knew that those issues around the industrial production of pork were concerning a lot of people and people didn't eat pork because of that.

So I think that was certainly very common thought in our early days.

I think now the issue of carbon is much more on people's radar.

There was always the issue around chemicals in farming of course.

But nowadays I think carbon and also those issues of land degradation in relation to food production are more prominent along of course with the welfare issues and whether you're medicating or using chemicals and things like that.

Husbandry.

Husbandry practices,

Yeah.

Are you optimistic Sam?

Look I'm very optimistic in the capacity of natural systems to regenerate if we can understand our role in that process.

And seeing what we've been able to turn around just by changing our management to understand our role in coordinating and managing the plant-animal interaction and then those great processes that underlie the ecosystem can then function effectively.

So yeah I see great hope in our ability to understand how we can repair that ecosystem function and rebuild a sort of abundance.

So that's the positive side.

And I think it's great to keep focused on that,

Not the doom and gloom because otherwise you won't jump out of bed.

Because nature is almost waiting for us to just do that isn't it?

Sort of like it's just going just give us a little window here.

Yeah,

Yeah,

Yeah.

We know what needs to happen or we have the ability to repair it and it's just we haven't been seeing it.

So that's the lovely thing and to see a bit of land come back to life and you get the bird life and so you get all these values besides the food you're producing and that you know that self-renewing organising system will just go on after you if you've restored the health and you don't get in the way or do the wrong thing again is positive.

And for people I think we're such a critical part of it that if we actually understand and change our role in it that's very positive.

Because without us stepping up to the plate there it's not good.

You're a very positive sort of fellow Sam and thank you for your time.

Thanks Charles.

No and thank you again quite seriously for sharing yesterday and you know we're here all to share and to listen and learn and you know what a wonderful opportunity there is.

Three hundred attendees,

Two years plus of work.

And there's some great minds down here and you know it's a really collegiate atmosphere.

We should do this more often.

Thanks Charlie.

Thanks Sam.

Victim number,

My mature number.

Good start.

You're scared.

I'm nervous yeah.

If you haven't recognised those dulcet tones it's David Marsh,

David is here as one of the 300 attendees,

Keen passionate attendees of the Farming Matters Conference here in Albury.

David you escaped somehow presenting or did you do something yesterday?

I think it might have been overexposure Charlie.

I think they're fed up with me.

I think the committee went oh not that David.

Not him again.

So David escaped but you escaped in official capacity but I've captured you here.

David I just wanted to get your thoughts on matters near and far.

Let's start with the conference.

Any standout nuggets of gold that you went oh that's a good phrase or quote or concept,

Not that you're new to it all but anyone?

Any favourites?

Any favourite presenters?

I put you on the spot.

You've put me right on the spot.

You won't get accused of favourtress.

It opened very well didn't it?

Daniella was as usual wonderful and Alan Savory I think was wise.

There's been a few comments that is exhorting us to try and get to the Prime Minister and convince him of some things.

I think that's probably the negativity to that view is probably that it's sometimes been a little different difficult to see the benefit in spending too much time trying to get change at the political level.

But I think you've got to do a bit of everything haven't you?

You've got to do a bit of work in that space.

Some people love that space.

They do and I've heard while we've been here that there's some interesting things that haven't been announced yet that are going to be announced in the energy sector.

How did you get a whiff of something?

I wouldn't like to divulge the source but no there's been quite a bit of work being done to try and have a re-crack at the carbon farming initiative protocols.

I don't know what's going to happen but I've heard that something is going to happen to make it more accessible for people.

So okay that's good news just without digging too deep there.

I think I am an observer of the carbon market and not a contributor,

Well maybe contributing informally somehow in the paddock but certainly not involved at all and mainly because I'm just sort of not sure which way to jump in.

I think everyone's been the same but you know the thing we keep hearing is that the market is going to be up because there's going to be,

The world's full of big emitters looking for places to offset their emissions and the land sector is where they're starting to look.

So I guess that's a positive thing that there's more of a consciousness around that,

Whether that actually gives big emitters license to do it or gets them off the hook.

Well yeah I mean the whole deal with carbon offsets is for the price of the offsets to the big emitter the idea is that that cost of offsetting their emissions drives them to a lower emitting behaviour.

That's the whole purpose of it.

Do you think it does?

I think it will.

Very good.

I mean people are,

It's happening quite fast I think.

We're moving to,

Transitioning to renewables quite quickly.

Well I guess the pressure's certainly on for businesses big and small,

Big emitters and those are not emitting too much but just to be more conscious of it.

So I think that's a positive step.

Any other positive things you picked up?

I've given you a couple of minutes of thinking time.

Yeah no that doesn't help actually.

Not when you're talking at the same time.

No look I think Lorraine Gordon was great.

You know it's great to see the energy that's going into that course and she's got a lot of energy.

Lorraine.

She's right.

She's really good.

Yeah so look I think it's been a fantastic conference so far.

I mean I think,

Yeah I was nervous about you know the short timeframes they've given people to talk.

I mean I'd struggle to say anything in 15 minutes as you know.

But no.

You'd be getting the ding-a-ling-a-ling.

Yeah that's right.

But no whilst it probably doesn't allow people to expand too much it does get everyone to concentrate on the nitty-gritties.

Looking forward to your session of you know clairvoyance.

What's agriculture going to look like by 2050?

Well I just had a quick chat with Gabriella.

She'll have some deep questions for you.

Thankfully she introduced herself and we had a quick chat and I've been primed up.

Okay good.

Not like me just straight off the grass.

Yeah but you're old.

Well not old.

You're wise.

Let me put the wise and older than me.

So you have years more experience in pulling these things together just at the last minute.

So yeah that's a good point.

And I think the topic is what do we see the future of agriculture in 2030 and 2050.

What do you reckon?

Well I don't know Charlie.

But I'll tell you what I would like to.

You know I drove down here from Booroo yesterday and you know this is March.

End of March.

So it's the last day off.

And we've had a rainy summer.

We escaped the bullet of a huge biomass drying off and a dangerous fire season which we all were facing with some dread.

But it's extraordinary to drive down the highway and around locally and see a country after the biggest spring anyone can remember with not much grass on it here and there.

You know and I have to.

Are you finding that?

Yeah well I drove from Melbourne yesterday.

Right.

How's Victoria looking?

I can nearly see it but you were in it.

I was driving through right through the middle.

I'd have to say on reflection that there were look at some paddocks that were like bowling greens but I think that was more to do with very high stocking rates of alpacas and some sheep novelty sheep.

But having said that though that was the extreme.

But having said that you're absolutely right.

There wasn't the bulk feed that I would have you would expect after.

And I'm not that familiar with what the season's done down here.

But still I think generally in the east coast of Australia or this corner and down Victoria and Woora and elsewhere.

Yeah I would have thought more grass.

I was in East Gippsland last week and it was not dissimilar.

Not as much grass.

However the farm I was on had good grass.

It was actually quite obvious the different styles of management on the way.

A lot of horses down there too.

A lot of dairy actually.

And I was thinking gee where's that grass for those cows.

I'm feeling like Rachel Ward now.

I've taken over the interview.

I'm interviewing you now.

You'd say oh he's very clever.

Now stop it David.

What are you flicking to that program for?

You're sort of jogging the memory.

Yeah no I was just trying to remember who I was thinking.

I mean I think everyone's been really good actually.

How about Walter?

Yeah Walter's excellent.

If anything he suffered today from not having the butcher's paper.

You remember that talking you had down at Nutrisoil?

Were you there that day?

I was there last year.

Well I didn't have one last year.

Year before I was there.

No year before.

I've been here before that.

No I missed it.

Yeah I was there that year.

I think Charlie Massey had just published his book.

And Walter spoke there and he had the butcher's paper and he just.

He did what he did today but it was visual as well.

And it was just brilliant.

And apparently it was recorded.

Somebody flicked it to me today.

The one that was back at Nutrisoil?

Yeah.

I've seen Walter do an impromptu whiteboard moment.

That's what he's at his best.

What I love about Walter and I mentioned it to someone else I was chatting with before.

Is the way he can just.

Very intelligent man.

Science based.

Academic not more than academic.

But the way he delivers it is just so.

It's like having a chat over a cup of tea.

Totally yeah.

It's not full of a whole lot of jargon and you're not trying to struggle to keep up.

He's really.

I just love the way he explains it.

He's so all over the subject that there's no.

He doesn't have any distractions to explain things because they're self evident when he talks.

Totally.

It just rolls off the tongue and wonderfully compelling.

What else have you.

I looked.

Actually the first speech.

I don't know whether you heard Jenny Bell did you?

I did.

That was absolutely brilliant I thought.

You know she's got this incredible art of sigh.

And I'm very conscious of that now when I'm in her presence.

But to translate what she sees in the landscape into the images that she put up with the project she did with the Coglands.

I just thought it was brilliant.

And I spoke to her afterwards and she said she was very nervous.

I said well it didn't come across.

She was very nervous.

I thought it was really beautiful.

No it was fantastic.

What do you think if Jenny had to draw David Marsh.

Oh crikey.

I think she'd need a long time to sort of.

I don't know whether she'd think she'd capture me.

Probably be a black square.

Would she draw Thistle?

Has she probably been to Booroo or later?

Lynn Sykes was great.

She was terrific.

I'm not going to verbalise her quote.

She was very funny.

She was saying she was nervous.

You may well have been but it was very funny.

But she's had as she said some incredibly deep moments at very difficult times for many many families in difficult circumstances.

So while she's obviously helped a lot of people but some people have come to her probably when it's almost too difficult to have a solution.

I think I'm right in saying her sort of phrase she said a few times which I've no doubt is true is like she mastered the art of being hated.

Is that what you want?

Yeah she did say that.

Which would be hard to hate I reckon.

That's right but I guess in there lies the frustration and the anger and the pain of a succession planning situation that's not going well.

I can't remember the phrase.

I wrote it down here functional family.

A functional family.

I like the idea of that.

She would have come across many dysfunctional families.

She would have yeah.

Maybe you don't know how functional you are until the chips are down.

Totally.

That's when you might find out whether you're functional or not.

Well it's a funny thing you know when I was a kid my parents were very lovely people and they were demonstrable in their affection for each other.

But it was at a time when I think in society we weren't telling each other we love each other every second of the day.

I don't remember my parents actually saying that to me ever but I never doubted that they did because of their behavior.

That was a really steadying thing in life Billy to have that as a child growing up.

Yeah I think I'm not sure if my mother is going to listen to this.

They probably will know in David Marsh's on they'd probably definitely say that.

I didn't hear that too often.

I hear it more often now.

I saw what they were doing with you.

Yeah no.

Look at you now.

No case in point and you know what you and I and many others did boarding school and Angelica she's I don't know how you survive that and you know you reasonably balanced kind of individual to go through that and I think a balanced solid you know.

Was this self-reflection?

You've done it again you've turned this right around.

Stop it.

This bloke's good.

Now I break that train of thought.

So yeah no.

What else is it you're having a bit of a squeeze.

Well Matthew Walken.

Yeah look I miss Matthews because I was out here.

I mean he's gone right around you for hair mate.

You've got to really step up to go around Matthew Walken.

I will do.

I'm you know I don't have to shove him a pencil.

Absolutely and the scissors.

And the scissors.

No he's you know he's an interesting guy and he's you know those sort of people are I mean they're great at talking aren't they?

They've got to be good talkers because they've got to form relationships to get their business going.

Well totally and that's what it is about building trust and confidence in you know potential clients and current clients so that's I mean you know marketing as it were is something that farmers haven't really had to do ever before is it?

Talk to their agent who then does the marketing in a conventional sense.

Yeah but no I think you know Dr.

McCosker was fantastic.

Doctor.

Dr.

McCosker.

Do you refer to him as doctor?

That's his doctor.

I know but do you say hello Doctor?

No.

Hello good doctor Terry.

No Terry and I we're the same age we call each other Dave and Terry.

Dave and Tez?

But no you know Terry's a man of great patience isn't he?

You've hit the nail on the head you must have been listening to my previous couple of interviews David because that came up a couple of times.

You know how long has Terry been sticking with the idea of Carmen Link and I think it's just about to burst into light.

And I hope it does.

I hope it does.

You know he's such a considered individual I think Terry.

And not unlike you know Lynn's 30 year career I think she referenced 30 years.

Walter you know they've all been out at and as Sam Johnson said earlier you know.

Now talk about a standout wasn't that fantastic?

No which one?

Sam.

Last night.

Oh absolutely brilliant.

Yeah.

You know where's he been hiding?

Out at Windermere on the end of a knife.

Well you know what I was I was saying to him you know what he referenced he said oh we're at I don't think he said Moringo we're near Young.

Yeah.

And I said you're bloody you should be hanging here.

Well that's people know better than that come on where's your pride?

No look I thought I mean not everyone's going to do what Sam's doing it's a huge undertaking but you know you cheer like man for people that want to do that and are doing it so well.

And insta well not insta game but.

And he's got the people.

His family have come home you know I mean that's an incredible effort really.

And he acknowledged it you know he and Claire are sort of stepping away from management as such and Sid and other members of the family is sort of certainly spearheading the move to on farm processing and I think that's just a it is a wonderful story.

It is it is.

But I'm not no I'm not saying but.

No everything before but is a lie.

And and as well as that being wonderful you know the outcomes of management using the processes we're all thinking about here holistic and regenerative.

The outcome of that has to be an improving landscape with people with good health and an economic profit that's a true profit.

And unless agriculture moves in that direction yeah we're in trouble.

That's certainly been a theme here hasn't it?

You know David Farley speaking about.

He was interesting.

Interesting and David is in I'm not sure I'm going to crack him down I hope so but.

You know cotton you know the perception around cotton as an industry is not the most sort of I guess regenerative or even sustainable kind of industry just because of a lot of chemical use and a lot of sort of you know.

Well it's a big version of all of us in the past.

You know we're a microcosm of that same process and we're all trying to atone for our wickedness.

Part of which is talking to you.

Yeah rude.

But I was relief is not the right word but I was pleased to see David on the thing because I sort of didn't know where he was in the world really and he's sitting fairly squirrely you know in the vicinity so I think that was a positive message.

And you know there's Harry Youngman talking about you know what they're doing.

Yeah that was fascinating.

So I mean I think you know there's a bit of a theme about you know investment as it were into this space and actually we're not allowed to say space anymore are we?

Well Lorraine said it a lot after you couldn't say it.

She loves breaking rules.

Who said we?

Len I think Len was talking about.

Oh in this space.

In this space.

What are we calling it in the world?

Moving forwards even worse.

Moving forward.

Or pivoting.

I haven't adopted that at all I don't think I've said it except just then.

But yeah these expressions come and go don't they?

They do and you know you're always going to offend someone with the wrong expression.

I think we're pretty safe though aren't we?

Yeah no we keep it all above board.

All the time David I'm conscious that the thing the afternoon session.

Surprisingly we've gone over time.

No I love it it's great.

Okay that was thank you for your time.

I don't want to race you out of here I'm just conscious that the afternoon.

About to begin but I'm really looking forward to this clairvoyance session with Gabrielle.

I'm going to defer to David.

I didn't realize that Gabrielle was actually on the session here but I bumped into her in the cafe in Boorua one day.

She's from Hardin.

Yes.

Yeah it's nice.

Married to the best looking schoolboy in New South Wales.

Who was that?

Dick Hart.

Don't know if I know.

Richard Hart.

I don't know.

Oh no best looking.

He should have been a model Dick I think he might have been at one point.

Oh really?

Yeah she was fantastic and I bumped into her in the coffee shop and we were talking about all this stuff and then she told me she was writing a book.

Another book.

This is recently.

Yeah.

Yes you mentioned that before.

She's writing another book but she sort of half hinted that I might be in this clairvoyance session that you're in so I'm pleased I didn't get a gong really.

Oh no I'm going to call in sick.

I wouldn't say but I do know David is chomping at the bit to answer the question.

I'm going to stumble.

Well it'll be a session of you know talking about what we hope is going to happen.

Well I guess it could be touching on deep reflection.

The hope session.

Hope session.

Yeah that's what we're going to call it.

The session of hope.

Hope and prayer.

David lovely to have you on again.

I'm going to pull these together,

All these victims into one episode I think.

You're now officially.

You're going to turn the victims into,

You're going to victimise all your listeners.

I'm trying to think of how many,

So you're,

Oh I have to have a quick look here.

Who have I spoken with?

No actually no one I've spoken with today have I interviewed yet.

Oh okay.

Oh you've got a rich field there Charlie.

Yeah that's it.

I've got a heap of people I haven't tracked down.

Terry's going to be coming up next hopefully.

I think a good session for you would be to interview the wives of some of the people you've interviewed and see what their perspective is.

What and see whether they were lying or not.

I should get them to listen to the audio.

I mean I think my wife could probably quote all the things I jabber about on the phone all the time.

She's been listening to it for 30 years.

I'd love to have a chat with Mary because I'm sure she could probably settle your score on a few things.

I think you'd be lucky to get a,

She only came in with the cake and put it out at arm's length didn't she before.

That wildly alcoholic Christmas cake.

No Rachel Ward I did interview there before and she hasn't been on the show so you know you're not alone range of there.

Okay we better get to the afternoon session and I need to line up Terry and a few others.

Thanks David.

Appreciate that.

Lovely.

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Let's get back to this week's episode.

I finally caught up with Courtney McGregor who's my next victim in this quite off the cuff little episode we put together here at the Farming Matters conference in Albury.

I've said that line about 12 times today.

Everyone's going to say,

Reece might have to just take that out of every episode every interview because it's like oh no we know where you are.

So Courtney is the sustainability officer at Harris Farm and I'm going to put in a note to the Harris boys that you need to be that your job description needs to be changed to the regenerative officer,

Regeneration officer.

Tell me why you just did that near you.

Thanks Charlie.

I love that you've caught me at the end of the conference where my head is spinning after being in all these panel discussions and I'm buzzing.

It's the vibe you always talk about.

I'm feeling the vibe,

The region vibe down here in Albury.

It's quite intoxicating though it sounds a bit wanky.

I'm a bit tired.

So let's talk about why you're here,

Why Harris Farm were one of the major sponsors and why Angus was here last night.

I know I'm so glad he was here last night.

So yeah we were the,

We're here because we were the sponsor of the reception.

We're also a market partner of Land to Market and we're here because we're here for the greater goodness and that's what Angus's talk was about last night and what's really warmed my heart today is people come to me and they go,

Courtney this feels really genuine,

Not just some big retailers saying that they're doing this.

Like Angus and the family in the business really believe in this and we've been,

We're here because we back regenerative farming and I'm really proud and excited to say that finally because we've been working on this for a while.

It's been about 18 months and recently in February we got to launch that in store and online so we're here at the conference because we really want to have a presence in region and let suppliers and growers and producers know that we're on the lookout.

We want more region products in our store and so it's really a privilege to be here.

I'm so thrilled and just as in terms of just more of what Angus was saying last night,

Which is also we're just in a really privileged position as a food retailer to actually make a difference.

Our business is purely dependent on healthy soil and so we need that and we also believe that we can actually help in the fight against climate change.

So how cool is that?

We can help our business but then we can also get carbon cycling and remove it,

Get it out of the atmosphere,

Into the soil where it really needs to be and drive those ecosystems.

So I just think that's so cool that we can be part of the solution or what we call is the soil-lution.

I love it.

Yeah,

Because everyone thinks agriculture is just the problem and it's not.

We can generally make a difference and that's so cool.

What I'm loving about and I'm working with you guys and really honored to be doing so and really enjoying that and what I'm struck with is that the Harris family and the boys and the team are really sincere in what they're doing.

They don't have to do this.

The business is growing,

People love Harris Farm and this is not something that they've gone,

Oh you know this is something that they've chosen to do because they've acknowledged the importance of soil.

And also what they're doing is they're facilitating a wonderful role in the middle of farmers who are growing food and not everything in store is regenerative of course but this is the way they're heading.

They're supporting farmers who are growing food and they're facilitating that to the tables of eaters,

Of consumers,

Of their clients and they could just keep doing that and go buy,

Sell,

Buy,

Sell and on they go and grow.

What they've chosen to do is to be a conduit for information,

Education,

Storytelling and encouragement support of the farmers who are growing food,

We're generally acknowledging that in store and letting their customers,

The eaters know about it and go this is the sort of stuff you could and should be supporting because it's not just nourishment in your gob for your family,

It just goes back to contributing to the health of the planet without sounding too grandiose.

No and I love it because we actually,

And I think you deserve a big shout out here,

We needed your help and we humbly came to you saying look we aren't farmers,

We're the retailer and we take that position really seriously that we do have that influence to communicate to customers but we needed you to make it genuine because you can speak to the farmers,

The suppliers and make sure that you're verifying what they're actually doing on farm is true and then we will do our job in communicating that,

Getting customers on board because that's what we're really,

What we'd love to say to everyone is if you want to be a part of helping the fight against climate change,

Shop region,

That's something that we're calling out in store and online,

We'll get better at it.

We have about 138 products right now and we want to grow that and it's genuine,

It's a genuine campaign and I'm really grateful that you've been by my side because it's tough,

We're taking on the industry and it's not always fun but it's hugely rewarding but I need the eaters as you call them to get on board and shop this because then that will send the direct signal of the supply chain for farmers,

Producers,

Makers,

Suppliers to be in the space.

They'll go,

Ah,

This is worth it and that will keep,

That will drive the engine and that will help the environment in the end.

Create that demand which is so important.

You know,

If we can create an economy,

A retail food system economy that is based on demand,

Then food is not wasted.

You know,

Food doesn't have to be stockpiled and just,

You know,

And farmers are incentivised to actually,

You know,

They're growing food knowing where it's going to go before they plant that seed,

Before that calf is born or that lamb is born,

You know.

And that's a wonderful position for farmers to be in to know that they're supported beyond the farm gate,

You know,

And become food growers,

Not just commodity growers,

Commodity makers as I used to be,

A maker of commodity.

Courtney,

You have been privy to,

Or most,

You probably had to duck out for some,

I don't know,

Refreshments every now and again,

But you've probably been privy to.

I do need to eat.

I am an eater too.

I'm actually a really good eater.

You don't look it.

So what,

Any standout nuggets of gold that would just pop out of someone's mouth in the last 12 hours or however long it will be?

I always enjoy hearing Chris Balazs from Provenir speak.

He was just recently on a panel and a lot of what we're trying to do and helping the environment is really about change management and really taking on big challenges and it can be exhausting.

And he did a big shout out for just,

You know,

Making sure you look after your mental health.

I thought that was really just a nice reminder,

But he had the funny,

He always makes me laugh because he goes,

What did he say?

To make things easier,

He goes,

Just put wheels on it.

And just the way he said it,

It was just like,

Obviously like figurative wheels,

But like,

Yeah,

If you're trying to push the proverbial uphill,

You know,

Like that,

After a while it's quite exhausting.

And I just love that analogy of like,

Just put wheels on it and it gets a lot easier to push.

It was a bit like Walter's when he said,

He's talking about bioreactors,

Like nature's created these bioreactors that just are amazing creatures being ruminants,

You know,

In all the different shapes and sizes.

And then,

And then I can't remember quite how he phrased it,

But he said,

And then,

Then it was decided to put legs on them and that made it even easier to get around.

I love that,

That got a laugh out of everyone.

He's a classic,

Walter.

He's just,

I won't bang on about Walter again.

There's a few characters out there.

You're one of them.

No,

Not at all.

I'm just,

I'm just riding the coattails of the David Marshes and the Terry McCoskis and the Walter Yinners of the world.

I'm just really honoured to be here and be,

To be speaking with so many wonderful people and be privy to such wonderful conversations,

You know?

I mean,

This is a pretty,

I know I'm being on a bit about it and it's a pretty feel good kind of a day and,

And conference to be at,

But I mean it is uplifting,

You know,

And it's really compelling.

And yes,

We've heard some of this stuff already and it's,

It does just reinforce what some of us already know or we sort of,

You know,

Acknowledge,

But we need that.

Otherwise,

You know,

People can sort of get a bit down,

Down heartened and sort of,

I don't know,

It's just,

It's just good to sort of,

Yeah,

Get back in the,

In the,

In the saddle.

Well,

I feel so grateful that we can actually meet in person because I really love that.

I'm a real people person.

And so I,

At one moment we had Alan Savory on the video dialing in from South Africa and I thought,

This is so cool.

We're so used to now communicating and getting information on from screen and people behind a screen.

But how cool that we all got to sit in that audience and listen to him,

His wise words.

And I thought,

God,

This is awesome that we get to all be together because there's a real energy in the room.

And I'm just,

I'm happy to finally be here to meet the people that I've been reading about,

Watching YouTube videos.

You know,

There's Martin Royds,

There's Terry Mikoska.

They don't realize it,

But like I've been secretly stalking their websites and their content and I,

And I'll get to meet these people and go,

Yes,

I finally get to connect.

Because you were coming last year as well.

Yeah,

We were going to come here last year.

And I think it was right.

We've just gone down to Melbourne.

I remember I saw you and we got to hear Dr.

Zach Bush speak.

And I think we were like high fiving each other and being like,

Yeah,

Yeah,

This is happening.

And I was like,

I'm going to go to customers and push region.

And then literally the pandemic was announced by the World Health Organization literally that week.

And I was like,

But then it gave me this whole year to really go,

Okay,

Let me make sure my ducks are in a row.

So I'm actually really glad we had a year to kind of get a little bit better what we were going to come out to the public with.

And so thanks so much for letting me speak here.

I really wish you had one of the Harris's here because they're,

They really,

They're the voice behind this and I'm just the doer.

I just,

I get to,

I have the privilege to make this happen.

They've got the vision.

Well full credit to you too Courtney for being so diligent and at the coalface of all this.

And Angus who was here last night and sort of response to the reception and what I have got and I think you mentioned it there before,

You know,

The feedback I've got is that was really cool.

Like,

You know,

These guys are really serious.

You know,

They're sincere about this.

It wasn't like,

Oh,

Look,

We're just going to throw some freebies over there in that table and you know,

I've opened a store in town and whoopee doo.

Like they're really,

They're heart and souls and because,

You know,

They have their own family farm up in the Blue Mountains.

They are practicing some regenerative techniques and things up there and philosophies and you know,

They've,

Again,

They don't have to do this sort of thing.

You know,

They can just poke along doing their thing and growing.

They've decided to really create a new standard in retail in Australia.

You know,

I think that's something that you should be really proud of and you should be proud of as well.

And look at the bigger guys probably will start doing this too.

But you know,

I hope they do.

Yeah,

That would be a good thing.

You know,

We need that bigger impact than we do.

But we like to be the leaders.

We want to stir the pot,

Get things going and absolutely we'd love for them to get on board and start converting their supply chain.

I think the great thing about Harris Farm is that you are big enough to have an impact small enough to just get the job done and do it with sincerity and integrity because you have relationships with your farmers.

You know,

The bigger guys are a bit further away from that,

You know,

And there's not quite that transparency.

I can say that somewhat from experience.

And you know,

I think that's,

You know,

You're well placed to be in this role,

Harris Farm and that's really cool.

Hey,

Any other nuggets of gold that you can think of that will stand out quotes,

Funnies,

You know,

I don't know,

Fangirl moments?

Hmm,

I'd have to go through my notes.

David marches here before he grabbed the program just there and he was flicking through it.

Okay,

Let me do the sound effect.

I'm here clicking my pen,

I think.

Don't worry about the paper flapping around there.

Oh gosh,

There was,

No,

You've caught me just straight out of one of the sessions.

I enjoyed Lynn Sykes,

She was great.

Oh my God.

But I think Lynn,

So I was trying to find,

Cause I actually found,

You'll actually see,

I literally put love hearts next to Lynn's speech.

So that was like a,

I don't know if you can see that on the camera,

But I actually felt moved by her speech and I think I just even got a bit teary cause I just was like,

Wow,

I think what she did was,

I'm going to,

Hopefully I can reiterate this correctly.

She was talking about stewardship and I know,

I originally come from the packaging and recycling industry and we talked about packaging and product stewardship,

Looking after the products that you put into the marketplace,

Make sure they get recycled.

And so that's how I kind of know.

And then she related it to humans and families and how you look after each other and your family and that's what's important and that's what will translate in the paddock.

And then down the line and I just thought there was just the moment she said it,

I think when I started drawing hearts,

Cause I was like,

Oh,

Love for Lynn.

And so she's one of the people who I haven't been able to meet yet and I just,

I'm going to probably try to stalk her tonight at the dinner.

Yeah,

Good.

Yeah,

That was really cool.

It was a good moment.

And she,

You know,

Cause there's a,

I guess the role or one of the roles she plays or the part of this puzzle that she's involved in is the people side of it,

You know,

And that,

And it's a really potentially,

Pretty raw part of that people puzzle,

You know,

That this is,

Often families don't,

You know,

By the time they come to the table with Lynn Sykes,

It can be pretty raw and messy,

You know,

And what she's had to do and deal with and the grief and the trauma and the mediation is extraordinary.

And I trust that there's been a huge amount of satisfaction for her as well in doing that,

In knowing that there's,

You know,

Lives have been saved,

No doubt because of her work,

You know,

Cause that's how serious it can get.

So I'm going to try and track her down,

Hopefully in between the last session and dinner,

If I can.

You've done so well,

Charlie.

It's so fun having you.

It's just everyone knows he's such a celebrity here.

And like there was a cocktail waitress last night.

Remember the lady?

And so she was,

She's in her uniform and she's collecting glasses and Charlie's speaking to everyone and she just goes,

She had a fan moment for you.

And she's like,

She goes,

Do you mind if I just,

I just wanted to say hello,

I listened to your podcast.

And you were like,

Oh my goodness.

And you gave her the time.

You stop what you're doing.

You chat with her and that she actually said she couldn't get a ticket to come here.

So she,

She worked here so that she could sort of just be in the room with this,

These key messages.

So that was really cool.

That was cool.

And hanging around next to you at these sort of conferences.

Well look,

It's,

It's,

You know,

I guess it's,

I was just saying the day before,

You know,

The caliber of the people here and you know,

It's a wonderful thing that,

That one can be,

You know,

At a conference with,

With,

With people you want to hang out with,

You know,

It doesn't happen every day.

You know,

We do it online and we,

You know,

Bump into people here and there,

But to have a room for them and,

And to,

To run into,

You know,

Girls,

Was it Amelia?

No,

It was,

So were they,

I'm sorry you listen to this.

But it was so wonderful that you said,

And I know you're doing permaculture at TAFE,

You do organic farming.

And I was just,

I was really stoked that you said g'day and you're doing this,

You know,

And here you are working,

Working nights,

You know,

And,

And,

And,

You know,

Have a dream,

Which is,

Which is really cool.

So,

And that's the idea of the chats we have and the podcast and the whole thing is like,

If that helps people get one step closer to their vision,

Their dream or even creating one in the first place.

And that's a great thing.

I had a great chat with Brian Wahlberg before about,

You know,

What are some of the first steps?

Just,

You got to identify your values and,

And create that vision,

You know,

That can be applied to anything.

Don't forget the farm.

Just go,

What do I want for my family and my life and my,

You know,

As me as an individual.

So I'm forever learning and,

And forever grateful that,

You know,

We can't use this word space anymore.

Who said that?

That was so funny.

That was,

That was kind of good because these have been used.

So we're trying to work out what it is.

Is it this world?

This world we live in?

This stuff.

Stuff.

It's just stuff.

Stuff,

Man.

Okay.

We've got more stuff to get through this afternoon,

Courtney.

And oh,

Just to plug another plug for Harris Farm.

If you are in the Albury area,

Or even if you're in Melbourne or Sydney,

It's worth a drive down the highway to the biggest Harris Farm in the world,

In the universe even.

And it is enormous and it is so worth the trip because we had a,

We had a squiz there yesterday afternoon and so impressed just upping the,

Upping the ante again,

You know.

And I think,

I trust that this is,

You know,

A reflection on or a sort of a hint of what's to come.

And it's just,

You know,

I've,

You know,

Spoke to one of the Councillors last night and just my brother-in-law and just people,

Everyone's just like,

My brother-in-law said,

He said,

I've been but he can't get in.

Saturday morning,

Just forget it.

This is packed.

So he,

Everyone's just super stoked about Harris Farm here in Albury and it's just a,

No,

No,

It was all sincerity.

I think it's fantastic.

And it's just upping the ante and I hope the big guys are listening and watching.

Well,

Thanks for being a part of this journey with us.

It's been fun.

And just for everyone,

We did do some great,

We grabbed some good footage last night of wandering through the store and you got to talk to Angus and talk through what this is all about.

And so we're really looking forward to just continuing to tell the story.

So look out for our social media posts and let us know,

I mean,

Are we doing this right?

I hope so.

Like we're really,

We're putting our best foot forward and we welcome feedback.

And just to clarify things too,

Just quickly,

Because there was some sort of questions and queries and I'm sorry if I don't get back to people about them all the time,

But my role in one of my roles is to verify the practices of supplies.

And that sounds a bit vague,

But it's an objective and a subjective evaluational verification.

It's not certification.

I talk to every producer,

I suss out with questions and understanding,

Not just their practices,

But their community involvement.

I check their website and make sure that's congruent with what discussions we've had.

They fill out a survey,

Which is again,

Verifies on paper their practices and becomes,

I guess,

Evidence of what they've told us.

So there is a degree of trust there and also it allows them to create some collateral that Harris Farm can then use.

So it's a really good opportunity for those suppliers and Harris Farm to get a really good understanding.

And that's my role and I'm really happy and really honoured to be doing that.

And I just wanted to say that it's not a certification.

No one gets a certificate of,

You know,

You're certified.

I'm not a big fan of certification.

Verification is different and this is what we're doing.

And I'm really,

Really stoked to be involved in that Harris Farm are using this verification method and look,

I'm sure people would like to challenge that.

And that's okay.

I mean,

It can evolve.

And we've had positive feedback.

We've had a few questions about it and even at this conference and people are like,

Well,

Talk me through how you do this.

And I just bring it back to the beginning.

The whole point is we're trying to connect what's happening on farm,

The awesome things,

The farming practices that are happening on farm and relate that to customers and connect.

I know this is important to you is for,

What do you call us?

Urbanites?

Urbanites.

So city city suburbanites.

We love our cousins there.

So that we actually know it's like,

We don't know what's going on in the land,

How our food is grown,

Raised.

And customers love that.

They want to know.

And so that's what we're calling out in store.

So if you do go in store and shop regen,

You'll see these little icon systems that we come up with that calls out the farming practices.

And that's what Charlie has verified with the supplier,

Producer,

Grower.

And we look to grow that and improve it if it needs improving.

It's also online,

By the way,

As well.

So that we've got a shop region collection.

So you can actually just,

If you wanted to just see what was there,

It's not,

I think I might've mentioned,

We've got about 138 products now.

And we're looking to grow that.

It's a lot of wine and cheese right now.

We need to diversify.

There's like 136 items of wine and cheese.

And we're looking also for any,

You know,

Producers,

Suppliers,

Growers who would like to,

The opportunity just to,

You know,

Just to be considered for that.

Yeah,

This is a call out.

That is,

You know.

So there's,

You know,

There's,

I'm not sure how much I can say.

I actually don't even know how much I know,

But you know,

There's expansion plans.

You know,

There'll be,

From what I understand,

I was looking at the blueprint last.

No,

It wasn't.

No,

If they're not expanding,

Then they're mad.

So,

You know,

Regional areas,

Other States,

And I think,

You know,

And sourcing locally just makes so much more sense,

You know.

And I'm really pleased to see in the,

In the,

In the Orbi shop,

The little,

Little,

That he's saying,

Yeah,

Calling out saying,

I'm local,

You know,

And that's fantastic.

Cause that's what these things are about.

Totally.

You know,

Whenever we go to a new region,

We want to,

We want to support local and call that out in store.

We can't do it with everything,

But we do give that,

We want to customize what's and personalize to the area when we open a new store.

So hopefully customers see that and,

And the local producers feel that,

But there's a pull.

Totally.

There you go.

That was,

Thank you,

Courtney.

I love sitting here with you.

This is so fun.

This is fun.

Yeah.

We should have like a show,

The How's Farm Show.

Courtney and Charlie show.

What's on special today,

Courtney?

Well,

Let me tell you.

Yes.

Thank you,

Charlie.

That was fun.

And we've got more,

More action this afternoon and then we've got dinner tonight and then it's an official wrap sometime this evening.

So I have to grab a few more people,

But thanks for your time,

Courtney.

Thanks.

Okay.

Harry Youngman,

You're my next victim on the,

On the,

The Regenerative Journey,

Albury Faring Matters road show that has just sort of come out of nowhere.

How are you?

I'm well.

It's been a while.

We met,

Um,

Eight months ago,

In Colac on the back of the,

Uh,

From the Ground Up.

That's it.

With Matt and Ange Joyce there.

And I haven't seen you since.

I've been following you vicariously.

You wouldn't start stalking.

You haven't,

You haven't seen me.

I was a bit like that fox we were just talking about.

No,

I don't do social media.

So I wouldn't know if you were.

Um,

Harry,

You did a,

Um,

A little preso this morning as part of a,

I guess it'd be a bit of a panel session as it were,

Um,

About what you're up to.

I wanted to sort of break this little session to two.

One is what you,

What you're up to and what sort of some of the,

What some of the condensed,

Some of what you talked about into some golden nuggets as it were.

And then also just talk about the conference.

You happy to do that?

I promise I won't be too painful.

Tell me what you're talking about this morning.

I'm going to start with a conference.

Oh yeah.

Well,

That's probably a better way to do it.

Why are we here?

What's happened?

Because I just found some of the presentations this morning were able to put into words so well and so clearly.

Walter in particular,

I thought it was absolutely outstanding for me.

Really,

Really struck a chord.

I've seen Terry present before and he's a master orator and gets the message off across really succinctly and very powerfully.

So it was great to see him again.

But Walter with the soil science for me just nailed it.

And I love,

I've said it 12 times today and in,

In,

In,

In chatting with others earlier today,

Harry,

But I'll say it again because I just love Walter.

He's,

He's the way he can just turn potentially complex to the concepts into layman's terms and just,

And very,

Very easily and very digestible chunks.

I've got a job for him.

What is it?

What I want to do and I saw it a few years ago at the Hamilton sheep bench where a guy had some virtual reality camera and he put it on and you could dive into the soil and roll around in the soil and watch all of the microbes doing their different functions in a cartoon manner.

And I thought what a great education device that would be and what if you could wrap around Walter's narrative around what was going on in the soil,

I think it would be a fantastic thing to get out.

So what you saw at Hamilton was,

Was it a dive into soil or was it dive into wool or something?

No,

It was a dive into soil.

Really?

Yeah.

So people are doing that.

Well,

I can't even remember who,

I think the elders had it actually.

Yeah,

Right.

It was a girl in the elders tent or something.

It was an animation or was it like someone has jammed a camera in there somehow.

No,

No,

No,

It was animation.

That is,

Which got the point across,

Because you can never see in the soil,

You're never going to be able to,

And it's not dynamic.

Down to the bazillion microns.

You can get the same message across using animation.

And he's got a very animated voice too.

That'd be perfect.

Okay,

There's a project,

Barry.

One more to add to your list of things,

Given what I know about you.

I don't think you need any more on your table.

That won't stop me from hitting you up going,

That was a good idea.

I already reckon.

Yeah,

Tell me more.

What about conference,

Any other gold nuggets,

Particular sort of standards?

The word passion came out a lot.

Focus,

Goals.

Don't lose your way.

Yeah.

Aim at nothing,

You'll usually hit it.

Ton of stuff.

So it's just good to reaffirm that.

And also,

You know,

It was good coming together with a lot of people that have taken a lot of risk and gone out on a limb,

Been ridiculed,

Pushed their way through and coming out the other side now.

It must be a somewhat of a relief for those presenting who have been at it,

You know,

For a long time to be,

You know,

Invited more and more often to these sort of functions where it's a friendly crowd.

I agree.

I mean,

I know that although they all have challenges,

Otherwise they wouldn't have done it for 30 years.

It's interesting though,

That Harris Farms were here and supporting it and I had a chat to Courtney,

I think it was afterwards.

And it just makes so much sense for them to be on the front foot adopting,

Making it a big part of their platform.

And certainly we,

You know,

We want to engage and take our produce to them.

Yeah,

Totally.

But also,

You know,

Explain the message about what we're doing regeneratively,

Let them do their marketing,

Hopefully make more margin out of our produce by selling to interested customers.

And that's how it's going to get driven.

Well,

If you guys are selling more product and they're getting more margin,

You are,

And you know,

That's got to be a good thing for the other end of it,

The eaters to go,

Clean,

Nutritious,

Good value,

Bingo.

Unbelievably good value.

I mean,

We're selling peaches,

Beautiful peaches and nectarines,

Three bucks a kilo.

It's a joke.

And so this,

We don't have time for all this,

Harry.

I know.

Sorry.

No,

No,

Don't be sorry.

No,

No,

I'm not trying to dissuade you from going there.

I'm just,

I just don't know where to start or where to take this because given what I know about what you're doing and the wonderful projects you're involved in,

I'm going to have to hit you up for a proper interview one day.

How's that?

That's no way.

I'll sneak down to Victoria under the cover of darkness.

No one knows I'm there.

And we'll have a longer chat.

So anything else about the conference that you want to just sort of touch on?

So where technology is going and where it can assist.

There was Terry talking about the mineral density of the fruit and veg and empowering the housewife or the supermarket shopper to be able to make those decision decisions at the point of sale.

Objective sort of,

Oh,

This is a better peach than that peach.

And I reckon that once we start getting someone else who's talking about the health consequences of different foods and their fibre and mineral density and how that's all going to play out.

There was one slide saying,

Beware,

It's all coming and I was thinking,

Bring it on faster.

But sooner the better.

It's here almost.

And also,

Everything we're doing in the soil is going to drive that naturally.

So it's such a win win.

Well,

When we remove the props and the crutches of trying to balance the soil with whether it's chemical to wipe out things or it's mineral to add things in a synthetic sense,

Things generally fall off.

That's the cycle that I certainly was in,

Got caught in.

But as you say,

Once you get that soil right,

Not ripe,

When you're focusing on the soil,

Which is pretty much the source of all life,

At the end of the day,

Things die in it,

Things live in it.

It's where everything goes through it at some point in their life,

Beginning around.

Then that's a great thing and for Harris Farm to be focusing on that and it's clearly part of your journey over the last number of decades.

I mean,

You're still a young man,

Barry.

So when did your alternative journey start?

We're going to get into this interview.

Well,

I liked again today the emphasis on it's not start,

Stop.

You don't wake up one morning and go,

Oh,

I'm ready.

No,

And our journey started when we stopped spending money spraying red legged earth mite two years after we started using compost.

The lemat,

That good old lemat.

Good stuff.

Yeah,

Good stuff.

Let's wipe it all out.

And then the broadleaf weeds started to drop out and the clover started to come back and our staff had come and said,

Where's all that come from?

Because we didn't sow Stavropatic or we didn't sow Eastern Macoogans or we didn't sow.

And I said,

Well,

Yeah,

You've got to think about that.

Did you know that was going to happen?

Did you,

You were discovering that as it went?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that was,

That was an easy one.

That was all about calcium.

Yeah,

Right.

And stop doing bad.

Well what did,

That was Terry's thing,

Do no harm.

I don't think you can underestimate those words in this journey.

I reckon stop doing bad,

If you do nothing else,

Just stop doing knowingly,

Sorry,

I'll say that again.

Stop doing bad things that you know about.

Yeah,

Consciously doing bad things.

Because there's other ways.

And that's what David Marsh always bangs on about.

And you know,

And it's absolutely true and I certainly still do as much as I can to stop doing things.

You know,

Step out,

Step out,

Stop the spraying.

And the big obvious things was stopping using your layman on your red leggards and you know,

And removing some of those synthetics and whatever else,

But actually also not being tempted to step in and disturb.

So,

Oh look,

There's heaps of tools and there's simple things that you can do that start the journey and then you start getting addicted to it.

Yeah,

It's pretty compelling stuff.

Oh yeah.

And I'll go to my grave learning.

Are you addicted to it,

Gary?

Yep.

You're an addict.

Is that a new condition?

I think so.

Is that a disease?

Yeah.

I was doing an interview with someone the other day and she said to me,

I said,

Oh,

Look,

I'll send you some words that our agronomist sent me about the journey.

And I put at the bottom of my text,

I said,

Careful,

You'll get addicted.

And did she?

I'm just fooling around with that.

Sorry.

And she,

She texted me back and said,

I see what you mean.

Well,

I had Courtney McGregor here before from Harris Farm and we had a great chat.

And not that it's new to her in terms of this intensity of coming to a conference with so many compelling stories and speakers,

But you know,

She's already been in the sustainability space for a long time,

But she said she just overwhelmed,

You know,

And this was,

She was going to come to this last year,

But obviously it was postponed.

And it is,

It's compelling stuff.

Now talk about compelling stuff.

What do you want to touch on that you touched on?

You've had enough thinking time now.

You've veered me off the course of your chat this morning.

Can you remember any this morning or was it just a little.

.

.

Yeah,

No,

I was given the brief to talk about.

Everyone got a bit of a hurry up.

It took 15 minutes,

Just too tight.

Too tight to relax,

Get into it,

You know,

Start with what I'm going to tell you,

Do the body of the presentation and finish up with a summary.

That's it.

And it's a real skill to be able to do that.

And our journey was trying to put together two people's stories into our first investment that then led to the sort of interest of others to come in if we got more property.

And then that all led to raising a substantial amount of money and deploying it on five assets really quickly.

So that was what the story was about.

You just done it in 30 seconds.

Oh,

I know.

You're fine-tuned it.

Yeah,

Without the fanfare and the detail and the personalities.

How are people going to find out the fanfare if you don't tell me?

The trials and tribulations.

No,

Well,

I'll take five minutes.

So it was really a coming together in the first instance of two people who knew each other for 30 years and had different skill sets and different interests.

Nigel Sharp came out of an industrial property background but had a bent for threatened to species rehabilitation.

And I certainly came from an inquiring soils mind when I moved from conventional through liquid first in the first instance to compost and had a fairly strong understanding of how the soil worked.

We met on a farm that had never had fertilizer,

Was wall-to-wall native grasses,

Herbs and forbs.

I said it was the worst farm I'd ever seen.

He said it was the best farm and told me why.

I agreed with him after that,

Bought the farm and then we proceeded to commercialize the bits in that farm that we wanted to,

Which was the native grasses,

Herbs and forbs.

And then others around us that we knew and been involved in other deals with basically said,

Look,

If you had another one of those farms,

We'd really like to be involved in that.

And then that led to,

Well,

How involved do you really want to be?

So we raised the first round of funding to buy the first asset with a view that we'd need to get it to a critical size.

And so our early investors were really innovative and pioneering and showed a lot of faith.

So was this your first venture,

Like this sort of rounding up fund like this and then employing it in the ag space?

No,

We'd done a few property deals.

But very much two,

Three,

Four people,

Not 48 investors,

Which is what we've got now or 48 names.

And so that's what it's evolved to.

And each time we found an asset or have been finding assets or opportunities,

We've gone back to the investors and more have come in.

And so we've been able to continue to grow and we've got,

You know,

We're closing another deal right now.

And we'll do another capital raising,

You know,

Sometime in 2021.

Yeah,

Cool.

And you've got your list of five assets or properties,

I guess,

Businesses there.

You had grapes,

Grape growing,

You were saying that they're all going to Japan.

You mentioned peaches there.

Is that on the same time?

No,

It's not.

The stone fruit ones at Cobram and the table grape ones at Red Cliffs near Mildura.

And both beautiful proximities,

Both perfect for what they're growing.

Table grapes at Mildura is about as good a spot as you can grow them anywhere in the world.

And Cobram is pretty damn good for stone fruit.

Are you going to do olives?

Oh,

Sorry,

Yes.

On the third farm,

We've put 1000 hectares of olives in.

We started that just on 12 months ago,

Did it over two plantings,

630 hectares and 370,

Whatever it is.

So they're growing extremely well.

Where are they just in terms of geography?

The geography is there at near Bort in central Victoria,

On the Waranga Channel.

And so we've got a good supply of irrigation water.

And we've done a 30 year offtake agreement with Boundary Bend Olives who do Cobram Estate in Red Island.

And we've also got a,

We retain them for advice.

So basically we're their Indians.

And we do exactly what they say.

That's not like you.

And then you've got a place in north of Emerald?

Yes.

So that's largely a dry land cropping farm on magnificent soil,

Very,

Very high CEC soil.

We've got about 2,

800 hectares of Brigelow Country on that,

Which will offset.

Okay,

Is that regrowth Brigelow or is it its old remnant?

Yep.

Really?

That's fascinating.

Because a lot of Brigelow was pulled.

Well,

Not necessarily there,

But I don't know.

They wouldn't have got in.

This is very on the Stevens Creek and the Scott Creek.

And it's very,

Very steep banks and there's no way anyone would have been pulling that.

Pulling anything there with that deep 15s or whatever they were looking to change.

There's a fascinating property because you can actually hold,

Well for chickpeas,

You can hold the whole growing season rainfall in the soil.

Get out of here.

Well,

Post planting,

We'll get an average crop without a drop of rain post planting.

Just because of the moisture,

The moisture off the capacity.

Because you've built it up or the system?

I don't know.

I wish I could say we had,

But I think there's room for significant improvement.

Improvement,

Yeah.

That's fascinating.

So is that four?

That's four and then the fifth one is in central New South Wales and between Hay and Delram on the confluence of the Lachlan River and the Murrumbidgee River.

And it's called the Great Cumbung or the property name's Duanbung.

We own that 50-50 with the Nature Conservancy.

Yeah,

Nice one.

And it's,

We're mustering goat,

Feral goats and pigs and cleaning it all up and tidying it up and there's a firewood operation on there which we try to get into a sustainable forestry management program.

Yeah,

Nice.

So it can turn out,

It's very,

Very high quality firewood.

So what species is it?

Red gum.

Oh nice.

And is that,

Can you hear that background?

Maybe they're out.

I thought they were coming out at 5.

30.

Time's got in your way.

Jesus,

Look at that Harry,

17 minutes,

See?

So any last,

And that's amazing and I guess,

Thank you for sharing that because with everyone,

Because that's fascinating and what it does like a lot of the other stories we've heard last night with Sam Johnsons and today is that this can be done.

You know,

Yes you're on a different scale and everyone's got their own different experience and their geography is different but you know the innovation and the collaboration,

You know the partnering.

Is that one of,

Did you do the peas,

The three peas,

Is that yours?

Oh we've got the seven C's.

The seven C's.

The seven C's,

That's,

I didn't get time to talk about that,

I didn't get time to talk about the properties.

You got ding-a-linged off.

I did but anyway,

That's all about it.

Well they say the seven C's for when we sit down and do a proper one.

That's fine.

So thank you again Harry for your time,

Thank you for your contribution to the conference and I'm just blown away with everyone's generosity with their time and to be bothered to sit here with me for 17,

Nearly 18,

Nearly 19 minutes.

It's getting tough.

It's pretty tough isn't it?

You got through it,

Congratulations.

You get a little certificate of appreciation when we finish up here.

I'll get you a beer.

I'll get you a beer.

Thanks Harry.

Righto.

I'm really glad I caught up with those guys and a couple of girls there too,

Thankfully at the Albury conference.

That was the end of,

That's part two.

Next week we have a fantastic chat with Stuart Andrews,

Son of Peter Andrews of Natural Secrets Farming fame,

Back from the Brink book,

A number of episodes on Australian story and I got to chat with Stuart at the end,

It was the morning after,

The day before of the last of the four day workshop he did here at Hanaminau.

Sat down with Stuart and just opened right up and it was just a lovely chat.

So open and transparent and straight to the point is Stuart.

So yeah,

I hope you look forward to that one as much as I did.

Recording it and that's next week on the Regenerative Journey.

This podcast is produced by Rhys Jones at Yeager Media.

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