What's Wrong With Desire?: Levels Of Consciousness Series

So today we're talking about desire.

In David Hawkins' book,

Power vs.

Force,

He describes all the different levels of consciousness that we exist at.

I've done two other talks about this,

But I'm just going to go over briefly where this is coming from.

This is a chart that you can Google called The Map of Consciousness by David Hawkins,

Or Levels of Consciousness.

And from the bottom you can see shame,

Guilt,

Apathy,

Grief,

Desire,

Anger,

Pride,

And then courage.

And everything below there,

Everything below courage,

Causes problems in our life.

It's kind of like if you make a choice out of fear,

It's going to have repercussions that we then have to deal with later.

Or if we make a choice out of anger,

There's going to be repercussions.

As much as we'd like to think,

Well,

It was just a moment of anger,

No,

There are repercussions that maybe you don't feel them right away,

But they do come up later.

Or when we're really driven by shame or guilt,

We will make choices,

Maybe in the choice of a partner,

Or the choice of work,

Or the choice of not doing something that we truly desire,

That then later has ripple effects in our lives.

And so this is what I mean by kind of negative effects.

But then once we come to courage,

Everything starts to change.

We start to make proactive choices that have very positive ripple effects.

It's almost like everything above courage,

We make a choice and the ripple effects build.

We don't have to go around chasing our tail,

You know,

Fixing all the things that went wrong because we made this one choice.

We can actually trust that when I make this choice,

Like let's say above courage,

Neutrality,

Willingness,

Acceptance,

Reason,

Love,

When I genuinely make a choice in love,

I can trust that the ripple effects are positive.

If I make a choice in neutrality,

Then I have faith or I know that this is going to have a positive effect in my life and others,

But below is different.

So what's interesting is today we're talking about desire.

And on the chart,

This is above shame,

Guilt,

Apathy,

Grief,

And fear.

But the interesting question for me with desire,

Which is why I'm intrigued to chat about this today,

Is that so often we think that desire is positive.

Isn't this passion?

Isn't this what we want?

Isn't this what drives us forward in life?

Isn't this what life's about is having desires and stepping into them?

So why is it a negative thing?

Why is it below courage?

Why is it considered something that actually causes problems in our life?

You know,

And we can think,

Oh,

Well,

Yeah,

I can imagine extremes,

You know,

Like you can never have enough and people who just want too much and they're so unhappy.

But what if it's more than that?

What if simply having desire like this in our mind really causes great discontent inside?

So the question becomes why do we want to talk about this?

Why do we want to talk about how desire could be a negative thing in our life?

The big thing is through our desires,

We can be controlled by others.

We can be controlled through advertising.

We can be controlled by people withdrawing things from our lives.

And it could be anything.

It could be what we want.

It could be money.

It could be attention.

It could be all kinds of things.

But we are easily controlled by others.

Desire takes away our sense of inner peace.

Like imagine you're sitting here right now and every one of us woke up this morning.

We're breathing.

We're here together.

We are connected through our chakras,

Through the divine,

Through the earth.

We are 100% here.

This is contentedness.

This is inner peace and content isn't a boring thing.

It's not a lack of life force.

It's not a yes,

I guess I have enough.

I won't ever want anything more.

It's not some negative thing that I'm in neutral or something and I'm just nothing then without my desires.

It's not like that.

It's just happy.

It's like look at me all happy and alive.

You know what do you want to do today?

I don't care.

I'm all happy and alive.

Whatever comes,

This is awesome.

Like contentedness and inner peace isn't dead.

It's very alive and the lack of desire gives you all the freedom in the world to explore whatever you want today.

So,

It's interesting and it's an interesting thing to explore this idea of well then what is desire?

What is the desire that David Hawkins is talking about that's so negative and I think what's valuable to talk about today is that there's a mix up in our language.

There's a mix up inside and one of the great challenges of desire is it runs unconsciously within us and it drives us without us knowing.

Like for example,

Desires are at the root of addiction,

A lot of addiction.

I mean there's a lot that's at the base of addiction.

One of the things that can drive many of our addictions is desire and one of the challenges is that it runs unconsciously.

The actual desire is much,

Much below the surface,

Far below the surface.

So,

What are some of the desires I'm talking about?

The desire to be thin.

I desire to be rich.

I want to be famous.

I want a boyfriend.

I want a girlfriend.

I want to be attractive.

I want to have sex.

I want people to pay attention to me,

Right?

All these things you think well,

Who doesn't want that,

Right?

I mean we need money and it's good to be fit and we want to have love.

Like you know what I'm saying?

So,

There's a confusion in there that says oh no,

No these are good things.

These are good things and yet are they?

Are they really?

So,

Now the difference here desire isn't need.

Obviously,

If you can't pay your bills you need to have enough money to pay for rent.

Like if you don't have enough money to buy food you need to have enough money to buy food.

That's not desire.

That's requirement.

You know if I wanted to travel to Egypt or some country where it was kind of dangerous for me to travel as a sole woman then it would be really good for me to find a male companion to travel with.

It's not a desire.

It's a hmm,

This would be really valuable right now.

So,

I'm not talking about need.

I'm talking about desire.

So,

For example look at the desire I want to be thin.

So,

When I was in high school,

When I was about 15 I really wanted to be thin.

My mom had been on diets her whole life.

First I think I was probably about 14 the first diet workshop,

Diet program I went on with on my mom.

We went on with my mom and it was called TOPS,

Take Off Pounds Sensibly.

And you know I wasn't fat by any means.

I wasn't unhealthy.

I wasn't anything.

I just wasn't skinny.

That's all.

You know I was raised in a time where what was beautiful was to look like Twiggy.

To look like you really had to have your bones showing and that's not something that's easily attained in my body.

I could have it.

I could definitely let my bones show if I want but it's not easily found on me.

I have lots of friends who can't gain weight.

This is their normal state.

This isn't like a thin shaming thing by any means.

So,

For me the desire to be thin,

My friends the goal was to be size zero in your jeans.

Well,

I was never a size zero.

So,

Anyway I didn't know how to get there.

But I discovered that if I ate,

I was sick one day.

I had dinner and I felt really sick to my stomach and I threw up.

This is a great morning story you guys.

And so,

I threw up and I realized wow this is kind of genius because if I eat and I throw it up the calories won't go in and I still got the benefit of eating.

How awesome is this?

So,

I decided this was a great idea that I'll just throw up all my food.

Later they labeled this as bulimia.

But at the time I just thought I discovered a genius idea.

This was the most rational choice.

So,

This is how I lived for quite a while.

I threw up multiple times a day and it was great.

I got super skinny.

You could see my ribs,

You could see my hip bones,

You could see my cheek bones.

I got super,

Super skinny.

I also destroyed my mouth and tongue and digestive system which is eventually why I decided to stop.

But I still remember this moment standing in the bathroom in high school.

And yeah,

I would have been about 15.

And I looked in the mirror and I'm skinny,

Skinny as a rake.

And I had no more friends.

And I didn't have a boyfriend.

I wasn't any more popular.

Nothing changed.

But I got skinny.

Right?

That was supposed to be the answer.

That was supposed to be the reason I wasn't popular.

The reason I didn't have a boyfriend.

The reason I felt like a nerd or I felt like an outsider.

That was it,

Right?

Because I wasn't skinny enough.

And it was a real moment in my life where I realized,

Okay,

Hold on a minute.

This doesn't change anything.

You know,

The desire to be rich,

Right?

The desire to have all this money and have a bigger house and have more cars.

The weird thing about that is,

Is it also doesn't change anything.

When suddenly you have all this money,

You're not any happier.

You don't have the great partner.

You don't have the great life.

You don't have more confidence in life.

You're still the same person.

You've just alienated everyone because you went with your family and all you did was work.

There's a great movie called,

Oh,

No,

What's it called?

I am?

It's a movie done by a Hollywood producer.

He was the producer of Jim Carrey.

Jim Carrey is a Canadian actor who was sort of discovered by this guy.

And he was the producer of all the early Jim Carrey movies.

And this movie is all about the weird illness of this desire for wealth.

He says,

This movie is a movie about mental illness.

And he said,

I know you're going to think I'm talking about this.

But he says,

What the truth is,

I'm talking about this.

And he starts doing these overhead camera shots of huge estates,

These huge homes,

These huge mansions.

And he said that,

I guess what happened to him was,

You know,

He did all the thing.

He started out with nothing and he worked himself up to become this,

You know,

International producer or whatever.

And he said,

You know,

One day I was standing in the foyer of one of my 5,

000 square foot mansions.

And I realized that they lied to us.

Money didn't bring happiness.

Success didn't bring happiness.

Becoming famous didn't bring happiness.

He says,

I'm the same guy.

Now I'm just afraid of losing it.

Now I'm just afraid of keeping up with millionaires and billionaires.

He says,

I'm no happier.

The truth is this desire for more money than I need is actually an illness.

And he actually talks about how if you lived in a village,

Imagine there's a harvest.

Here's the harvest and it's distributed amongst the village.

Well,

If anyone took more than their share,

That would be considered a mental illness.

Because now of course that person has to fight off other people because they don't want to give away more than their share.

Like why would you want more than your share?

It's a fascinating movie.

So,

This is an interesting thing about the whole desiring more money than we need.

And again,

This is a systemic thing.

This isn't like an individual thing.

But I mean you look on,

Especially because I'm an entrepreneur,

Because I'm self-employed.

If I dare go on social media,

I will always see all these advertisements for how to make a million dollars.

How to make six figures only working four hours a week.

And what are they doing?

They're putting this desire inside of me because they know that if they can plant it inside of me,

I'll go wild with it.

Right?

Not because it's healthy.

Right?

It's not a healthy thing.

And here's the other piece.

Why are they putting it in my mind?

So that they can make money.

It has nothing to do with me.

They're not putting it out there to say,

Hey,

Katrina,

Here's a beautiful thing to grow inside of you.

You're welcome.

That's not what they're saying.

They're saying here,

I'm going to plant a seed inside of you.

It's going to grow and it's going to fester and you're going to lay awake at night wondering,

I wonder if that person has the answer.

Ooh,

You know what?

I'd better buy their program.

And to really come to this realization that that's what it does.

When we need more than we want,

It causes the strangest distraction inside of us.

Like the weirdest distraction.

Because even,

You know,

A friend of mine,

Her partner got this job.

And it was one of those jobs that you get paid a lot more than,

You know,

If he just,

You know,

Let's say he's really unskilled in this area.

It's not like he's got a personal skill or an education or something.

He got this job and he doesn't have to do much and he gets paid super amounts of money.

Well,

There was something really negative about this place.

And she said,

You know,

After two years,

She barely recognized him.

He was depressed.

He was apathetic.

He just wasn't the excited man that she married.

And it eventually ruined their marriage.

And she had said to him many times,

Well,

Stop working there,

You know.

And he says,

Yeah,

I know.

He says,

Everyone's so negative there and I'm actually so bored and my life is just sort of passing me by and I'm not engaged and I hate it.

And she's like,

Well,

Quit and get a different job because where can I make this much money?

You know what I mean?

Like when we make this money,

But look at all the money.

Look at all the money.

And we think,

Well,

It makes sense.

He goes,

No,

It only makes sense when we need this to live.

But when we need more than what we need to live or we have to live in a house that's bigger than what we need,

It causes huge challenges in our life.

And it's a systemic training.

I still remember when I was in high school,

My only desire was to learn a million languages,

Travel around the world.

And I wanted to be a Canadian ambassador.

And I loved languages and I loved people.

And,

You know,

I thought this would be a great path for me.

And so when I was heading into grade 13,

When there was still grade 13 in Canada,

I wasn't taking any math courses.

And I'd always been really,

Really good in math.

And one of the teachers came up to me at the beginning of the year and said,

So Katrina,

How are your math courses going?

And I said,

Oh,

I'm not taking any math courses.

She says,

Well,

Why not?

And I said,

Well,

I'm going to just learn a million languages and travel the world.

And I'm just going to.

And she just looked at me and she said,

Well,

That's stupid.

She said,

People grow up in Europe knowing four languages from the time they're born.

You can't keep up with them.

And I said,

Oh,

Because I'm all of like I'm 17.

And I said,

Really?

I said,

I said,

Well,

What should I do?

She goes,

You need to go get a skill,

Learn something and learn three languages.

Then you've got something.

I said,

OK,

What should I become then?

Because I was really hardcore.

This is what I was going to do.

And she said,

You should become an actuary.

Well,

An actuary.

I apologize to any of the actuaries who are here today.

But an actuary,

Basically,

They work with insurance companies and things and they they calculate the chance of you dying with huge mortality tables.

And it's basically just,

I don't know,

It's math,

It's accounting,

It's business,

It's all these things all rolled into one.

And so and then the hilarious part is she said to me,

And you'll begin at one hundred thousand dollars a year,

Which,

Of course,

Has never been a motivator for me.

I was like,

But that was her.

That was what she believed was the selling point for me to go and become an actuary.

So the irony is and I believe that there's all all things are in purpose,

Right?

That that's why I ended up going to University of Waterloo studying math,

Because I began in actuarial science.

And ironically,

There's only six women in the entire program.

One of them being a woman I became friends with,

Who,

Of course,

Had a hot brother who I ended up marrying.

And I'm not saying I went to university to find a husband because I didn't.

But I trust that for whatever reason,

I was meant to go there so that I moved out here and married a farmer and had lovely children and my life continued.

So anyway,

The irony was that this was the thing.

But you'll make one hundred thousand dollars.

So I went and I started study.

I spent one year in actuarial science and it was the most boring,

Dry,

Horrible thing I'd ever studied in my whole life.

So I lasted one year in actuarial science and just completed my degree in in other aspects of math.

But it was so interesting that it was like,

No,

You should change your whole life path because you can make more money this way.

It's like,

OK.

But then I married a dairy farmer and became a computer programmer,

Which was hilarious.

But so then here's this desire to I want to be famous.

Wouldn't that be great?

I could be famous.

Everyone would know who I am.

Well,

I don't know how many famous people in the world would agree with this statement that this was a good thing.

I remember seeing an interview with Matt Damon and I love Matt Damon ever since ever since I watched Good Will Hunting.

And I found out that not only I mean,

Who are we kidding?

He's gorgeous.

But he wrote that he got this.

He got the Oscar for the screenplay for Good Will Hunting.

And he was young.

Like,

I think he was only twenty seven,

Twenty four or something like he was really young when he he and Ben Affleck won the Oscar for Best Screenplay for that.

And I saw an interview with him and he talked about how he was so glad he got the Oscar at such a young age.

Because he tells this story.

He says,

You know,

My girlfriend and I were at the Oscars.

We got the I got the thing.

Everyone's all like,

Oh,

You're awesome.

You're awesome.

And he says we went home and he said,

My girlfriend went to bed and I sat there staring at this Oscar.

Realizing what a complete waste of time it was.

Realizing that being lauded by my peers,

By getting this great thing meant nothing.

And he said how thankful he was that he got this out of the way at age twenty seven,

Because he said,

If I had spent the rest of my life trying to chase this.

Eternal famous thing.

He said,

I would have wasted decades of my life trying to.

Make other people happy.

Or have other people think I was important.

He says,

I'm so glad I got this out of the way.

Now I can enjoy acting,

Producing,

Writing for what I what it's really all about.

Because it sure isn't about fame.

And,

You know,

Reason four hundred and thirty one why I love Matt Damon.

Because even it's the same as it's the same thing as even writing a book.

You know,

I've never met anyone who's written a book where the desire is fame.

There's always for me personally,

There's always this point in writing every book I've ever written.

Where you just sort of you don't know if anyone's going to enjoy it.

You don't know if anyone's going to read it.

You don't know if you're way off path.

Maybe even your friends won't like it.

And they're just going to be polite and go,

Well,

This is a great accomplishment,

Katrina.

You know,

You know,

It takes a lot to write a book and put it out there.

You just don't know if what you've written is of any value.

And it's almost like you have to get rid of this desire to be famous or the desire to be rich.

Like you have to actually get rid of these desires and go deep inside of you and ask yourself,

Why am I writing this book?

Really?

And I know for me,

Like,

For example,

Even my my Tantra book.

When it really gave because I was really afraid to write that book.

I really was afraid that people would think I I don't know.

I didn't know what real Tantra was or whatever.

Right.

You have lots of fears that rise.

And what I realized and what the driving force for me to write that book was.

I wanted to write the book that I wish I had read when I was 20.

And that's a very different desire.

Can you imagine the difference between writing a book because you wish you could have read it when you were 20?

As opposed to writing a book because I want to be considered a famous Tantra teacher or I want to make a million dollars at this.

Can you feel the difference between these two?

Realities.

And imagine the book that would be created out of these two different realities.

Desire is weird.

That's what I mean.

It's a it's a it's a tricky one.

We just we really,

Really have to look inside at what is driving.

The creation of this book.

So what about the desire?

I want a partner.

I want a boyfriend.

I want a girlfriend.

I want to be married.

The irony of or the brilliant serendipitous timing of this talk is over the last day,

The last 24 hours,

There's been a lot of discussion in our circle around people,

Friending people who want a date.

And and I also get a fair share of messages to me saying,

Hi,

Hey,

Beautiful.

Hi.

How's it going?

I also get lots of messages that I don't respond to,

But lots of messages that seem to be from someone who is looking to make a connection in some way.

And there's been a lot of discussion in the circle around the the the struggle of being friended by someone,

Allowing the friendship,

Thinking,

Oh,

This is going to be a nice connection.

And then,

Of course,

It's hey,

So what are you interested in?

You know,

And it's like,

OK,

Hold on.

That's not what we're here for.

And what's interesting about this struggle is this desire for a partner,

This desire to make a sexual connection,

This desire to find.

So,

Again,

On the surface,

Someone might say,

Well,

It's natural,

Right?

I mean,

People,

People are looking for people of like mindedness and they're looking for people who maybe are spiritual and they're looking for people who,

Looking for people who are interested in what they're interested in.

Why,

Why are we being so critical about it?

Right.

What's the big deal?

And this is what's interesting.

This is where you you trust your inner instinct.

There's an interesting,

If you imagine a human being as a polarized being.

And what I mean by that is magnetism,

Attraction and repulsion and repulsion is a very strong word in our world.

But let's just use it in in the true manner of magnetism.

Right.

So we live we are we live in a duality here.

We are attracted and repulsed by other people,

Food situations,

Places like this is how we navigate.

We navigate through magnetic attraction and repulsion.

That is how we navigate,

Even if it's unconscious.

So it's very interesting is when we receive a friend request or we receive a message from someone and instantly repulsion is the ooh,

Like it's this it's this reaction.

And isn't that interesting?

Right.

If we just note to self repulsion.

So,

Again,

In the land that this idea of desire is very tricky because we can argue that,

Well,

No,

I'm just making a connection.

But if everyone around you is getting a ooh,

Then this is the sneakiness of desire.

This is the weirdness about desire,

About wanting a partner.

Because,

Again,

I mean,

I teach Tantra.

Obviously,

I'm into passion and connection and love and relationships and all that.

Like in no way am I against this in any way.

But there is something about the difference between living in a state of this content,

Happiness,

Inner peace,

Exactly as I am right now in this wholeness as an individual person.

When I walk through my days interested in life,

Interested in things,

Expanding my interests,

My passions,

Whatever it is that I desire to expand.

And I happen to meet people who also are interested in that and then and I happen to merge with certain people at a deeper level and then maybe I happen to merge even deeper with that person.

This is very beautiful.

Right.

This is very lovely.

But if I wake up in the morning and all I think about is I really want to I really want a partner.

I really I don't want to be alone anymore.

I really I really want someone to live with.

It's such a different feeling.

Because the problem with this is the problem with this focus is what about my interests?

What about the things that this soul wants to do in life?

Why was I put here on the planet?

Was that really the only purpose?

Was to find someone to enter a committed monogamous lifelong relationship?

Like,

Is that really why this soul was put on the planet?

Or is there more?

And so if I live so even like,

You know,

If someone says,

Well,

Are you are you looking for a partner?

If you say no.

People go,

What?

Like,

I mean,

You don't even want someone?

It's like,

Well,

No,

It's not a it's not a it's not a lack of enjoying relationships.

It's in this point.

I am content,

Happy,

Loving my life,

Engaged in the world,

Engaged in my friendships and people.

Do I require a partner?

No.

Do I desire one?

No.

If if someone comes along and it's awesome possum,

Will that be fun?

Sure.

I did a talk all about neutrality to actually explore neutrality in this.

It's a fascinating thing.

And what's really again,

What's really interesting in the same story of my bulimia that I believed that the reason I was unhappy was because I was carrying weight.

That must be the reason that I don't have the I'm not dating the you know,

The highs,

The football captain or whatever the magical fantasy was in the 80s when I was a teenager.

You know,

It must be that right?

Well,

We have the same weird seed inside of us that says,

Well,

The reason I'm unhappy is because I don't have a partner.

Really?

Like,

Is that true?

Because nine times out of 10 as far as I've ever seen when we have this desire and the desire is ruling us.

Right?

And we get the partner,

We find someone.

There's sort of this initial fun joy thing.

And maybe this is what we call the honeymoon period.

Right?

I mean,

I don't really believe in a honeymoon period.

That's that's a whole other story that I believe that we're meant to actually grow in love.

And it gets deeper and more interesting and more passionate as time goes on.

I don't believe in a honeymoon period in a healthy relationship.

But what if we only got into the relationship because of this desire to be in a relationship that this is what will complete me?

Then we have this weird honeymoon period where yes,

I found it.

It's awesome.

Then all of a sudden something happens and you settle into peace and quiet and you realize that all the things that bothered you before as a single person,

They're still here.

But now you have this other person to chew on about it and blame them for it or confuse them with it or you don't even know who knows what it is.

And so it's always really interesting.

Like you can even feel it when you are dating.

If you're dating someone who is just desperate to have a partner.

It kind of puts you back a little bit as opposed to someone who's,

Well,

You know,

It's really nice to meet you.

I'd love to hang out more.

But there's no big,

You know,

There's no big grasping.

It's just kind of a,

Hmm,

Isn't this a lovely thing?

It's very,

Very different feeling.

You know,

Sometimes I think that's why married people are so attractive because they're not grasping.

They're not in a desirable,

You know,

This sort of that thing that,

You know,

You meet someone,

They're amazing.

And then you find out they're married.

There's something weird about the ease of a person who isn't driven by this desire.

So it's just a fascinating thing.

And that one's a tricky one,

Of course,

Because that one is also at the foundation of so many advertising campaigns.

I mean,

There's a lot of makeup and gym memberships and plastic surgery and,

You know,

Clothing and shoes and bras.

And like,

There's a million things that have been sold to us because,

Well,

You know,

You'll never be alone if you look if you look like this person on the billboard.

And the really weird thing about that is like the really weird thing about this desire,

Because,

Of course,

The next desire is,

Well,

I want a boyfriend or I want a girlfriend or I want a partner.

So then the next thing that they sell you,

The next thing that we're controlled by is,

Well,

Then I have to be attractive.

I want to be attractive.

And whatever that is,

That's what they sell us.

Right.

So,

Again,

In my in my teenage years,

You had to be skinny as a rail.

Like you just had to be so,

So,

So thin.

Well,

Now all of a sudden,

Depending on who you listen to,

You need to have a big bum.

So people have clothing that has,

You know,

Padding in the bum or you have all these things like it's so it's so fickle.

Right.

It's so whatever everyone else wants.

Well,

So imagine if you want to have happiness.

If we really want to wake up in the morning and be happy.

All the power must lie within us.

Well,

As soon as in order for me to be happy,

You need to think that I'm attractive.

Well,

Where does that end?

Right.

Where does it end?

So I need to make that that so this person tells me,

Oh,

Well,

I think you're really attractive.

I go,

Oh,

Good.

Yay.

I've completed my desire.

Mm hmm.

It doesn't end there.

But what if that person doesn't think I'm attractive?

Well,

I have to make myself attractive for that person,

Too.

And then someone else says,

Well,

That's not really attractive,

Katrina.

Oh,

Oh,

Then I better make myself attractive for you,

Too.

This is the problem with these desires.

It's ever consuming.

It doesn't end.

If the desire to be rich is there,

As soon as you have enough money,

You'll want more.

And as soon as you make that level,

Well,

Then I want more.

And then I make and and if I become thin,

Well,

Then I also then had better have this.

Well,

I want to be that.

Well,

I also want to have boobs.

So I'd better change that.

Oh,

Well,

Then I better it.

It never ends.

It's consuming.

You know,

The desire for sex.

Isn't that an interesting one?

Right.

Again,

This weird feeling that people have when somebody messages you and you're like,

I'm just here to meditate.

I'm just here to listen.

I'm interested to connect with cool people.

That's what I'm here for.

And that desire,

Like it almost you can feel lechery.

Right.

That desire for sex,

Which is very different than loving sex or loving intimacy or loving love.

It's very different than someone who just wants to have sex.

Right.

Even I remember when I first became single,

I mean,

Sex and intimacy.

I love that.

Right.

I mean,

Who are we kidding?

And so I would go on dates and I would do all these things and and,

You know,

I would end up having sex with someone.

And inevitably,

I would remember them leaving and sitting on the edge of the bed going.

I don't feel any different.

That was supposed to fulfill something.

I don't feel any different.

It might have just set me up for a greater desire for more because obviously sex isn't what I was really wanting.

You know,

So it's always interesting to go beneath the desire.

All this being said,

The other interesting part of looking at desire in our life and looking at desire in the context of this chart is desire isn't always negative.

And the reason I say that is that if you have been living in shame or guilt,

These are extremely disempowered states.

These are states where the shame holds you down.

Like you just you don't even believe you deserve to have desire.

Desire is way higher than shame,

Guilt,

Apathy,

Grief,

Fear,

Like it's way higher than those.

So if you are in a world of shame,

You you won't even want that you would desire is a healthy thing.

If you live in guilt,

You won't allow yourself desire.

You will oppress it because you don't deserve it because look at all those things you've done.

If you live in fear,

You don't even want to ask.

You're like I don't even want to I don't even want to imagine that it's possible because I'm just going to be disappointed and then it's going to be worse.

You know it is no good right.

If you're living in grief like you know because of some relationship that ended or this or that and you're like I'll just never I'll never want anything ever again.

If you live in apathy that it's like what's the point?

I'm just going to sit here.

I don't even care.

If you're living in a space of apathy,

A desire is a real step up.

If there's something inside of you that says you know what screw it.

I'm going to make some money.

That's it.

I want to be rich or whatever or maybe there's this something inside of you that says you know what I'm going to get off the couch and I'm going to start walking every day.

Screw this.

Screw this grief.

Screw this.

I don't believe I can do it.

I can do it.

So in some ways depending on where we are in life,

If someone's acting out of desire,

It actually can be a springboard into a very empowered state.

So it's not always negative.

You know so if we find ourselves in a space where we are really you know you know what I don't care.

I want to feel good about myself.

So I'm going to get thinner and I'm going to get fit and I'm going to join CrossFit and I'm going to do all these things because this is what I really want and maybe it is driven by desire.

But maybe I spent the last 10 years in apathy or fear.

You know maybe this is a really healthy jump and from here maybe I achieve it.

I achieved that thing I was going for and I realize okay I achieved that.

This isn't actually what I was looking for.

There's more.

There's something deeper.

Okay I can you know what I mean.

So it's not I don't want to I don't want to completely say that all desires are horrible because there may be points in all of our lives where desire helps us.

It helps pop us out of a place that we felt disempowered.

So it's a it's it this isn't a big judgment piece.

It's just about looking at it and asking yourself.

Is this desire helping us get out of a negative place a stuck place a difficult place or is it consuming my life and I am not doing what actually expands me.

This is the big question.

So the last thing I want to mention is.

So imagine sitting in a space of neutrality of courage of a space,

You know higher on that map of consciousness.

Imagine yourself sitting in this place of neutrality.

And these desires don't drive you.

You know fitness might be fun.

Maybe I'll dance more.

I love to dance.

Making more money would be cool.

What do I love to do.

Maybe I'll do more of that.

You know.

It's a very different thing because from a place of neutrality.

It isn't that we don't go out and do things.

But we aren't doing it from these places of desire.

We're doing it from a place of.

Yeah,

I would love to do that.

That would be really exciting.

And you know perhaps we'd end up fitter.

Perhaps we'd end up with more money.

Maybe we'd end up finding a partner after all.

Maybe we'd end up in this place.

But it's from this inside out place.

It's from that I filled me up.

And then.

The world just changed around me.

It's like this good friend of mine.

He and I would always talk about relationships.

And he too just came to this place in his life where he realized he was so busy trying to find someone to invite to his life.

So his life would be awesome.

He just.

You know after dating and dating and dating and dating.

He just said.

I'm going to make my life great.

I'm going to make my life a party.

My own personal fun party.

And then I'm going to invite someone to the party.

Who I think might like it.

And his whole world changed.

You know.

I think it was within a year he was married.

It's like as soon as he stopped trying so hard.

As soon as he got rid of the desire for the partner and just had a desire for a happy life.

I don't know.

The universe shifted.

If you have any questions.

I'd love to read them.

I'm confused as to how neutrality and manifestation come together.

Neutrality.

It's almost like imagine for example imagine.

A desire that is caused by lack.

So maybe you've felt alone a lot in your life.

So there's a desire to have someone always there.

Maybe the desire is there because you feel unworthy.

So you want attention or you want to feel famous or something.

Those desires seem to work against us.

But when we have neutrality.

We know we're worthy.

We know there's nothing to fear.

We're not driven by those things.

So we actually are clear to hear a call.

Let's say when I was writing one of my books.

That if I write the book in neutrality.

A different book will be written.

As opposed to writing a book out of the desire for wealth or the desire for fame.

Another book will be written.

So it's very curious how the neutrality does seem to manifest.

It goes against the law of attraction.

A lot of the law of attraction theory.

Not all of it.

The problem with the law of attraction stuff is that it's a half teaching.

It's missing something.

So for example for me.

My challenge with a lot of like the movie The Secret or the law of attraction stuff.

Is that in my life.

I don't know which comes first.

I don't know.

So an idea will come to me.

And then I'll manifest it.

But I don't know whether it manifested because I had the idea.

Or it was simply coming down the line.

Which is where the idea came from.

And then it manifested.

And this is,

I don't know the answer to this.

But all I know is the biggest like.

For example when I bought my train station.

Back in 2009.

For any of you who don't know I bought a train station and renovated it into a wellness center.

Where I taught.

But I saw the train station ahead of time.

Like I desired.

It's funny the words we use.

I,

Maybe,

See again the word desire isn't quite right.

The reason I bought the train station.

Was because one day I took my daughter in to sign her up for,

To be a girl guide.

And the women that I was signing her up.

They were really angry.

They were just these really angry women.

And kind of,

I think a lot of them volunteered a lot.

And they were really resentful of all the work they did in the community.

And they felt really unappreciated.

So it was really weird bringing my daughter in.

And we had a farm at the time.

So it was a really big deal for me to drive her all the way into town.

To take her to some girl guide thing.

Like it was a huge deal for me to do this.

And these women were just so angry.

Like so angry I thought.

Why would I go to all this length to bring her in here for her to hang out with really angry women.

So I thought wow I'm going to do my own kids club or girls club.

And then I thought no it would be great to teach classes to the women.

Wouldn't that be cool.

And then I had the idea wouldn't it be great to have a place where I could teach it.

And then the next day I was driving around and I saw this train station was for sale.

Right.

And you know then this began this very interesting story of how I ended up owning this train station.

So people would say to me after I had the train station they'd say wow like you're a real manifesto.

And I'd say I don't think so.

Because I just felt like I was sort of caught up in this stream of thoughts.

Like you know what I mean it wasn't that I sat down and I said all right I see the train station.

I'm going to like I don't think that's what happened.

I feel like it was coming down the line and I just caught wind of it.

And then I said it out loud and then people said wow you manifested a train station.

I said I don't think that's how it happened.

So and it was surely after that that the movie The Secret came out and they would tell you you know paste a million dollar bill or something on your ceiling.

And that's what will manifest.

And I'm not saying there isn't some truth in all of it because I think there is some truth in it.

But there's bits of it that are missing and they're just not things that I've experienced in my own life.

Like to me the most interesting thing about the law of attraction is the belief in abundance versus scarcity.

If I believe in scarcity,

If I believe there isn't enough money,

If I believe there aren't enough people in the world to find a great partner,

If I believe there isn't enough safety in the world,

Then that is probably what I will find.

If I live in neutrality and I believe in abundance,

Then I believe that there's a seven and a half billion people in the world.

I'm sure there's lots of fun people to hang out with.

If I believe there's piles of money and things to be had out there,

All I need is to be neutral enough to see the opportunity,

Then I believe that's what will happen.

So it's a,

There's a lot of curious teachings in the world.

We steer where we are looking,

Right?

Exactly.

Maybe I manifest because I,

Well and the funny thing is,

I wish I had read you don't have to read the eyeballs.

Well and that's the thing,

The same thing with you don't have to eat the eyeballs.

That was a really interesting book,

Thank you Christine for mentioning it because that book was so interesting to me because that was the first book I ever wrote that I didn't go through an official editor or an official publishing house and all that kind of thing.

And I just sat with it going,

No you know what,

These are just stories I want to tell.

And it was for my own journey to actually put it all together.

And I just want to put it out there.

And we'll see what happens.

And I'm just so glad I did.

You know,

I no longer eat the eyeballs.

I know right.

That became a big thing.

It was just like this,

My friends would say,

Because I do,

I'm still,

I don't know that people pleasing thing.

It's almost like it always runs,

I just have to be conscious of it.

And every so often a friend of mine or one of my kids will say,

Is this an eyeball you're eating?

So funny.

So the key here is acting out of what feeds our inner joy rather than what we will,

We think will feed,

Please others.

A hundred percent.

Like,

So I want to tell you a story about the train station.

When I,

When I owned the train station,

We had just sold the dairy farm.

So we had quite a financial nest egg.

And I felt really,

Really called to run the train station.

It really felt like a divine calling.

So between the sense of it being a divine calling and the fact that,

Well,

You know,

It takes a few years to financially make a business run,

Right?

If you've ever run your own business,

You know,

It takes time to for that to build up.

And my entire mission for running the train station was to meet the needs of the community.

Like if you ever watch the video of that,

That the town did about my train station,

If you Google,

If you look on YouTube,

East Street Station,

Katrina or something like that,

You'll see it there.

You can even hear it in my voice that the our mission is to meet the needs of the community.

It's like my need,

My mission is to make everyone happy.

Which sounds like a great idea,

Right?

Isn't that altruistic and important?

And isn't that what we're all here to do?

Like this is this is what I'm supposed to be doing.

Well,

I'll tell you,

There was a million beautiful things that came out of the train station.

A million connections and experiences.

And I have no regrets about the six years that I taught out of my my wonderful train station.

But financially,

I never made a dime.

I didn't even draw.

I couldn't even draw a wage off of it.

It didn't matter because we had this nest egg from the farm.

But I couldn't make a living at it.

I couldn't actually make it profitable.

So one day I called Jim up.

Jim is the man who helped me when I was sick through my breast lumps.

And I talk about him in What If You Could Skip The Cancer and in Tontric Intimacy.

And I called him up one day and he came to my station and I sat with him and I said,

Jim,

What am I doing wrong?

I don't understand.

I don't understand why I can't make this profitable.

I mean,

Granted,

I was trying to run a holistic business in a town of eight thousand people in the middle of nowhere.

It wasn't,

You know,

There were a few challenges to,

You know.

But I believed that if I was on the right path,

If I was being authentic,

If I was really living my truth,

If I was doing my calling,

Then it would work.

All these excuses wouldn't fly.

Right?

The answers would come.

So I was really confused as to why I couldn't make a go of this financially.

And Jim just looked at me and he said,

Katrina,

Stop doing this for other people.

Stop meeting the needs of the community.

He said,

Figure out what lights you on fire and do that.

And let people be attracted to you.

Stop going out trying to gather the masses.

And,

You know,

I have you guys know I have utmost trust in Jim.

Right.

I have so much trust in him.

And I stared at him.

And I had no idea what I could do with that information.

I didn't know how to follow my passion.

I didn't know how to.

Even after everything I'd ever written and everything I taught.

I still had to be of service to the community or else I didn't know what I was doing.

And it was so interesting because I do believe that if I had run the station.

So,

For example,

Let's say I decided I was just going to run tantra retreats there.

And it didn't matter what the common folk lived in the town thought.

I'll bet.

And what if I just did that?

What if I just went on an urge and just did whatever I wanted?

I'll bet it would have been a shining success financially.

You know,

And again,

I trust that all was well and I was meant to do everything I was I did.

And it's a fascinating thing,

This idea of manifesting out of joy as opposed to manifesting out of meeting an external need or an external expectation.

It's a very interesting and complicated concept.

Figure out what lights you on fire.

Right?

And even,

You know,

It's interesting,

Like even teaching here,

Like sharing with you guys on insight timer.

The reason I wanted to talk about this idea about desire is I wanted to talk about it.

Because there's something about all of you guys being here that helps me sort it out.

Also,

As we're chatting,

Even the idea of,

All right,

Katrina,

We're going to do an hour talk about desire and trying to understand why it can cause problems in our life.

This is fascinating for me.

Like I am thankful to be able to chat about it here with you guys.

I don't I don't share anything here that doesn't entertain me.

How do I find what lights me on fire?

What's interesting,

I,

I saw a quote on Facebook,

And it said,

If,

How did it go,

If a man or woman,

But if a man walks on eggshells his whole life,

He may end up never making a sound,

Even to himself or something like that.

And this is interesting about what lights us on fire.

If we've lived our life,

Not making a sound,

Not ruffling feathers,

Trying to be digestible to others.

And again,

Who am I talking about here?

Me.

We lose touch with what lights us on fire.

And it's almost like a big part of my journey in life.

Like people would often ask me,

You know,

If you're new to my world,

My kids used to call it Katrina's world.

My ex-husband called it Katrina's world too.

He'd say something really cool would happen.

He goes,

Yeah,

Well,

We are in Katrina's world.

That is how it happens.

In 2018,

I gave away everything I own and I traveled.

I just followed,

I just went where I was called.

And it was a really,

Really big deal.

And people would often ask me,

Why did you do it?

Why did you give everything away and start to travel?

And when I really prayed about it,

Because the truth is I didn't know,

I just knew that I was called to do this.

I didn't know exactly what the point was.

But David Hawkins chart really resonated with me.

Like it always sits in the back of my mind pondering.

And one of the levels that really intrigues me about him is the level of joy.

And I've always desired,

Desired to experience this light hearted joy of being.

Because I've always felt a very heavy need to be responsible and be very conscious of others and all that kind of thing.

Like how can I feel joy when others are suffering,

These kind of things,

Right?

So it actually became this interesting journey.

I mean I learned a million things on that path,

Which is what the book You Don't Have to Eat the Eyeballs came out of that journey.

Because one of the things about not pleasing others and not eating eyeballs that I didn't want to eat,

It really became a whole journey of self-love.

And even self-love wasn't just acceptance of self,

But it was what does the soul want to do?

Like this question you have about what lights me on fire,

This is literally what connects me with my life force.

What drives this soul on this planet?

This is a really beautiful question.

Like it's a beautiful question to ask.

And if we throw that up into the universe,

Then answers come.

You know there's a,

I can't remember who it was,

There was this great writer,

Philosopher,

And he said,

It's so important to just live in the question.

And it's almost like allowing the question to float in our ethers,

To float in our consciousness,

Allows an openness to see something new.

Right,

That we don't have to find the answer.

Yes,

It was real okay,

Yes.

And thank you.

It's just that,

Allow the question.

And then allow ourselves to be drawn within it.

And then we find things,

Maybe we find little things.

Then we find bigger things and you know maybe that becomes the beautiful question that we follow throughout the rest of our days.

Who knows?

You know maybe it changes.

It's just wonderful.

Well thank you guys so much for being here.

It's a fascinating journey through these levels of consciousness.

Thank you so much.

And we will see you soon.