79. Transforming Regret: 8 Tools For Using Regret For Growth

Even with really bad things,

Yes,

There will be consequences to our actions,

But you aren't meant to suffer and stay in perpetual pain for the rest of your life.

That's just not the purpose of any human being.

Welcome to the Spiritually Hungry Podcast,

Episode 79.

We're excited to be spending the next few minutes,

Hour or so,

With you and Monica and all of our listeners.

Me too.

So let's kick this off with some stories.

Yes,

I love stories.

History.

You probably know these because you're a history buff,

But let's see.

They call me buff.

At least it applies to some area.

All righty then.

1812.

1812.

Is this a test?

It could be.

June.

June 1812.

Napoleon invaded Russia with one of the largest armies ever assembled for battle.

And was so confident of his impending victory,

He wagered the war,

Wouldn't last more than 20 days.

That's really optimistic.

But due to,

And this all sounds absolutely horrible,

Lice infestations,

Typhus infections,

Food shortages,

Freezing temperatures,

And eventually Russian resistance,

Napoleon never made it beyond Moscow.

More than 600,

000 men from Napoleon's empire marched toward Russia,

But just over 100,

000 left.

Napoleon said this during his retreat from Russia.

There's only one step from the sublime to the ridiculous.

I'm going to tell you another story.

Let's go to 1962.

Dick Rowe,

An executive at Decca Records,

Thought guitar groups were falling out of favor.

So when he heard the audition tape for a band called the Silver Beetles,

He passed on it.

Shortly thereafter,

The band dropped Silver from their name and replaced drummer Pete Best with Ringo Starr.

Just two years later,

The Wall Street Journal estimated the Beatles sold $50 million in records in the US alone.

So there's a common theme.

Now,

If you haven't picked up on it,

Someone ended up deeply regretting their choices.

Hopefully you would hope.

And there you have it.

That is this week's topic for today's episode.

Regret is the emotion of wishing one had made a different decision in the past.

So obviously this is something that every living,

Breathing person experiences because the consequences of the decision were unfavorable.

Regret is related to perceived opportunity.

The sense of loss from missing a perceived opportunity.

What a great way of defining regret.

So while on the surface,

This seems like a negative emotion and experience,

We know,

We teach,

We live that every emotion,

Especially the negative ones,

Can be there to inform us and give us an indication that we can do things differently,

Be different,

Look in a different way at our lives and the way we live them.

But when we let regret spiral,

It brings up feelings of shame and of guilt.

And that's where regret can trap us.

So we want to and we're going to talk about how to avoid the traps,

But also how to utilize the emotion of regret in your favor.

And I don't think you ever saw this movie,

But Eternal Sunshine for the Spotless Mind.

Of the Spotless Mind?

Yes.

Let me say that again.

Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind.

I don't think so.

Yeah.

I don't either.

And I don't think you'd really enjoy it,

But there is this one part I think is really.

.

.

I love when people recommend movies that they don't think.

.

.

Well,

I didn't recommend it.

I brought it up.

So I.

.

.

No,

No,

No.

Not you.

I mean,

Literally I've had people say,

I don't think you'll really enjoy this movie,

But I think you should watch it.

I do think that's worthwhile sometimes too.

I would regret that decision.

No,

I don't think so because sometimes you can watch a film that isn't completely enjoyable,

But you walk away with some kind of.

.

.

Very few though.

Okay.

So in short,

A couple in this film has a painful and unhappy breakup and they both opt for memory deletion,

Which is widely available in their alternate reality.

Both choose to erase all memories they have in the relationship,

Good and bad.

And at the very end of the movie,

They find their way back to each other,

Unburdened by any of their past actions or feelings.

So that is a spoiler alert.

Sorry.

I should probably have said that.

You should regret that choice.

I should probably have said that earlier.

I'm so sorry.

But anyway,

You still might want to watch it.

While some may see this as a happy ending,

But a fresh start,

I don't agree actually.

I don't think that ignorance is bliss.

And I lean toward imagining that those who forget their history are doomed to repeat it.

So I want to ask you,

In Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind,

A company named Lacuna Inc takes the objects you associate with what you want to forget,

Like pictures,

Gifts,

Anything that stir up pain,

Then memory by memory,

Lacuna makes them disappear.

If you could go to Lacuna and erase any memory or regret,

What would it be?

Well,

I think you know the answer to this.

Zero.

I really feel.

.

.

So boring.

I'm going to ask you to go to the issues for the intro.

Because I strongly believe,

And experience,

It's not just a belief,

That everything that we go through has a purpose and everything,

Especially the painful negative things,

You don't choose to go into them,

But even mistakes have a purpose.

And I think that the most important part of life is learning from mistakes and learning from experiences rather than trying to erase them or even erase having done them.

Obviously,

I agree.

So I apologize.

And we live like that too.

But let me just help you a little bit.

It doesn't have to be a person or relationship.

I have a question for you.

I'm going to see it later.

Wait,

Mr.

Berg.

It doesn't have to be like a big painful thing.

It could be,

Well,

This wouldn't apply to you.

But for our listeners,

It would be a bad job,

A mean boss,

A course or a test that you bombed,

A hobby that ended badly,

Bad investment.

I have a lot of regrets.

But you don't experience them as regret.

No,

No,

No.

I experience them,

But I would not want any of them not to exist.

OK.

So just give us one.

I'll give you one.

It's funny.

We were actually talking about this today.

Oh,

Good.

I love when you get personal.

So we actually made a decision recently about a place we were staying.

And after we made that decision,

All kinds of reasons came up why maybe it was a mistake.

And I actually recently we had this conversation even today.

Should we have done it?

Should we not have done it?

And not to bury the lead,

But I was going to wait to get to this point.

But I think this is really the salient point of regret.

There's two parts to regret at least.

One is how did I get here?

Second is now that I'm here,

Am I upset about it?

So I'll give you an example.

It's funny now that you're bringing someone like,

Oh,

Should I feel regret about that decision because I just feel.

Well,

Let me finish.

So the wisdom is this.

Where we find ourselves is exactly where we need to be.

Perfect.

Exact.

Purposeful.

How we got there might have been by mistake.

So I don't want to really clarify that because I think this is really the secret of unpacking and releasing regret from pain and but also learning from it.

And this is paradoxical,

But this is truth.

We often make mistakes.

We often do things that maybe we shouldn't have done.

That's one part of the equation.

Or we wish we did do.

Or we wish we would have made a different decision.

But where we find ourselves is perfect.

So how I got to there,

Meaning the way I made the decision might have been a mistake.

Once I've made the mistake,

Once I've made the decision and I find myself in a certain situation,

I have to know that that's exactly where I needed to be.

So it's interesting because when I find myself in those situations,

Yes,

Of course,

That's the consciousness.

But then where I go with it and what needs to happen is,

OK,

Here I am.

That happened.

And so now what?

What are my other options?

What are the other opportunities?

And I think regret comes in when you feel like you don't have any more choices.

And therefore,

It was a mistake that's.

.

.

Also,

But it's also just I can't believe I made that stupid mistake.

And I think,

Again,

To go even a little bit deeper,

I do hope that we do delve deeper into this part of it.

There is a purpose to regret,

Like you said.

There's a great book,

Which I do recommend for all of our listeners,

By Daniel Pink about regret,

Where he talks about the fact that there's people who tattoo on their arms,

No regrets is a famous Edith Piaf song,

Probably one of the most famous songs besides La Vie and Rose,

About having no regrets,

It's one of the last,

If not the last song she ever recorded.

What's funny is what I think about is.

.

.

La Vie and Rose.

No.

I've had regrets.

I've had a few.

I mean,

That's the honest song.

Frank Sinatra.

Yeah,

But then again,

Too few to mention.

Too few to mention.

But rather than living without regrets,

The point is to learn from mistakes,

Because that's absolutely necessary.

It makes us better people.

It makes us better decision makers.

At the same time,

And this is work,

Removing any of the pain for having made that mistake,

Because how do you remove that pain when you come to really understand,

But that's where I need it to be?

So I'll use an example that might be a little bit,

Sort of a field of this,

But I often have conversations with people who are struggling with their childhood,

The way they were treated by their parents,

The way they were mistreated by their parents.

And I say the same thing.

You have to understand that your soul needed to go through that experience.

Sometimes painful,

Sometimes disappointing.

It doesn't make your parents into saints.

They probably shouldn't have done that for them for their own sake.

But this view,

Which has to be internalized through constant thought and work,

Where I find myself is perfect.

How I got there?

A different conversation that needs to be had,

Because maybe I made a mistake along the way,

And I don't want to make that same mistake again,

And I want to learn from it,

And I want to become a better person from it.

But I think also it's our expectation of what we think our life is supposed to look like.

We imagine our life to be really just a straight line.

Oh,

That's never the case.

But that's how we go about,

Right?

Really?

Yes.

We do not expect the real pain.

You can't see that,

Right?

You're like,

Okay,

Of course it might be hard.

Yeah,

I have to work,

But with a lot of work and a lot of effort,

I'm going to get there.

And we don't expect it to be topsy turvy hilly as it is,

Right?

So then we go back and we're like,

Well,

My life isn't supposed to look like this.

And it can bring up a lot of shame that I am not a good person or I'm undeserving.

So you get stuck in that place.

I think the first place to start is really,

What do you expect your life to look like?

And how are you living it?

And if you feel regret,

Do you believe you have choices or not?

And not to change the past,

But to have them inform your future.

Absolutely.

But I think,

And here again,

This goes a little bit deep,

But that you can't have clarity unless you accept what is.

As long as.

.

.

Clarity in what?

Meaning,

Again,

Using the.

.

.

What to do next?

Clarity about the fact that where I find myself is perfect.

Not where I want it to be or where I could have been had I made a different decision,

But that where I find myself is perfect.

And again,

Small examples.

You're trying to get to work and you make a wrong turn.

We've often had this,

Right?

You're in a rush,

You're late for a meeting or for a dinner and you make a wrong turn on the highway.

And now you're an additional 20 minutes late.

You're never gonna be on time.

So in that moment,

What's the right thought?

The right thought is,

If I'm here,

That means this is exactly where I need to be right now.

Now should I have planned better?

Should I have gotten a better map or should I have used my navigation on my phone?

All those things are worth exploring for the next time.

But you can't have clarity about neither your better decision making process or whether it was the right or wrong decision unless you really accept fully that where I am is where I'm meant to be.

Let me give you a perfect example to illustrate your point.

And those of you who have been following the story in the news,

There were two police officers that were killed in the line of duty here in Manhattan.

And last week,

There was the on a Wednesday,

There was the funeral on a Thursday,

There was the memorial for 22 year old Jason Rivera,

Which is so sad.

He was so young.

And then this week,

The same thing.

There was a on a Tuesday and a Wednesday,

Right,

The funeral and then the memorial right here in Midtown in the middle of the cathedral.

And that was for Wilbert Mora,

Who was 27.

So last week,

I wasn't aware of what day this was happening,

What time I had to go to physical therapy and then I was going to exercise and I'm calling an Uber and it's getting canceled one after the other after the other.

And then it's changing the time from seven minutes to 10 minutes and the wait time.

And with my injury or my recovery,

I can't really walk long distances yet.

And so I got in a car and they're rerouting us eventually nonstop,

Right?

Go down to twenty third to go back up to thirty fourth to catch the FDR.

No take Third Avenue.

I mean,

If you live I mean,

For the New Yorkers,

You can understand what this experience is like.

You're like in a mouse,

Your mouse in a maze and you have no control and you're going in circles round and round and round and dead ends.

And anyway,

So I missed my physical therapy and then I was about to miss my workout and I was like,

You know,

OK,

So here I am.

And I could have been more informed.

I could have checked ways myself.

I could have done all these things.

Right.

But I didn't.

It wasn't.

And I was like,

But you know what?

I didn't.

And so this is what it's supposed to be.

And I'm going to make the most of it.

And I did.

I had an awesome workout.

It was shorter,

But like very efficient,

Very fast,

Very effective.

And it was change.

It was different.

Right.

And more than anything,

I was really so happy with my my mindset around the whole thing.

Cut to this week.

Right.

So now I knew.

And so this morning I headed out.

I moved my physical therapy to a different day.

So I didn't have because it's like right there in the heart of the location.

And I gave myself ample time to get to work out to my workout.

And so as we're sitting in traffic,

I'm working.

I was prepared and no problem.

But I never had regret in that process.

Right.

Last week,

I was I had the ability to practice being flexible,

To embrace change,

To not be so stuck or invested in the outcome.

So that was like something I've been practicing for years.

I was really happy about that.

I was able to keep it and really be in the present and be in the moment.

And then this week I was OK.

You were informed from last week.

There's a repeat this week.

And what are you going to do differently?

But there is never a feeling of blame,

Of shame,

Of guilt,

Of I should have or that day wasn't as I planned it or my foot needed the therapy and my workout needed to be better like that.

And I really I used to be hardwired like that.

And it's something I've really been working on.

So you can actually change the way you experience everything.

And so regret actually doesn't feel like that heavy weighted regret that we are familiar with.

Instead,

It feels like information.

It's something that is informing you that you might want to consider doing this differently next time,

Which I often talk about emotions and their importance.

Right.

Even feelings of sadness or feelings of.

Any feeling,

But let's say the emotion sadness.

If you don't stay in that emotion too long,

Right,

Because I think you have to give it a window.

If not,

It can take over.

But it can tell you,

Wait,

There's something here that you need to change.

There's something you need to reconsider about how you're living your life or spending your time if that's the energy you're feeling.

Maybe you're not tapping into your soul's potential,

For instance.

Same thing with anxiety or fear.

It's there to inform us.

And so regret is actually a very powerful motivator and tool for change.

Absolutely.

And I think as you were talking,

I'll just almost repetition what I said earlier,

But I think it's so important that both sides of this reality are important,

Which means the acceptance of where I am as the perfect place to be and the looking backwards to become better.

If you remove one or the other,

You won't become the best person you're meant to become.

And I like Daniel Pink in his book Regret.

He uses the phrase optimizing regret,

Which I think is a perfect example,

Perfect understanding.

And again,

We're adding that additional element of the fact that really.

.

.

I like that there's a title to what I just said now,

Actually,

Optimizing regret.

Exactly.

Exactly.

But the first part is where you are,

Perfect.

And again,

And I know this is not hard,

This is not easy to do,

And it takes work and time after time after time to remind yourself and to have that inner dialogue.

I'm here,

Doesn't matter how I got here.

Perfect.

Perfect.

Perfect.

I'm here,

It doesn't matter how I got there.

Perfect.

On the other hand,

Okay,

But let me look back,

Not for.

.

.

Because then I want to be in a different place from where I am,

But the next time I have such a decision or choice or action to take.

And by the way,

Last week,

Right,

When the workout was shorter than I would have liked,

I was just.

.

.

Because I had set my mind state.

.

.

And again,

I've been working on this,

I was just so happy that I was able to do something and that I was able to move.

I was in such a state of gratitude.

And then today,

Funnily enough,

Again,

When I'm sitting in the Uber and we're in traffic for a while and I'm just working because I had come prepared and I had expected to be in the car for much longer than I technically should have been.

So I can hear.

.

.

So I'm really trying to practice this too,

Like this mindfulness.

I can hear like honking and people angry and all this New York energy.

And I'm just sitting there like I could have been sitting on a mountaintop because I was like,

Oh,

Yeah,

I don't feel any of that because I'm not late and there's no pressure and all is good.

And I,

You know,

It was a really fun actually exercise for me.

But I do want to bring up and I thought this was really interesting,

Just some research here.

There is something called four stages of regret.

And it reminded me a little bit of the seven stages of grief we've all heard about.

And Catherine Schulz in her TED talk,

Don't Regret,

Regret,

She summarizes.

.

.

Sorry,

Don't Regret,

Regret?

Yeah.

I don't regret having her again.

She summarizes scientific research about how regret moves through four phases.

So the first and this one always is like always our first even in the grief one,

But that is denial.

We wish for the bad things we did or poor decisions made just to go away.

And I think about,

You know,

I've talked about this when we had Josh,

Our blessing,

Who was born with Down syndrome.

And then I had,

I got pregnant with Miriam three months later and then gave birth to her.

And one of the first thoughts I had like in this,

Actually when we brought her home on the way home from the hospital is,

You know,

I wish like all of the other stuff that happened in the two years before,

It wasn't like that where he didn't come into the world this way.

And it was just if I could just go and erase.

And I caught myself and you actually helped me at the time that then you have to wipe out all the goodness,

Kind of like the movie we just talked about,

Eternal Sunshine of a Spotless Mind,

That I don't want to wipe anything out because I was such a different person.

I was so much more elevated and even happier after having had Josh and having Miriam than I was unrecognizable to myself.

Right.

So but again,

The first thing is denial.

We go there when we feel regret.

The second is bewilderment,

A sense of disorientation in which we cannot believe we did what we did or how it happened.

That sounds familiar.

I thought when I read that,

I was like,

Yeah,

Maybe you haven't felt that,

Mr.

Michael,

But I think for the rest of us.

The third is self recrimination,

The desire to punish oneself for a mistake or poor choice.

And the fourth is ruminating,

Thinking about what we did over and over again,

Often with self contempt.

And I know somebody who vacillates between three and four,

Like regularly,

Daily.

And he's had all kinds of health issues.

He's so upset because he can't get past that.

Every failure,

Every mistake is just full of regret.

And then he stays in those two.

Interesting.

So I think they're really powerful.

I'm going to start reading one more time.

So denial,

Bewilderment,

Self recrimination and ruminating.

So regret becomes problematic when the chronic cycling between phases of three and four happen.

And then when we're staying in that space,

We don't actually take the time to change our negative feelings about what's happened because you're just going over and over and over the same thing.

Right.

Right.

And I'd like to share again,

Just a part from Daniel Pink's book.

He says that he saw his suggestion.

Right.

So how do you get out of the cycle is that we write resumes of our failures.

I really like that idea rather than failure and regret.

I mean that they are.

They go hand in hand.

Yes.

Yes.

They regret because you failed and then you regret.

Yeah.

Just like we write them about our accomplishments.

Such a failure resume is where you list your failures,

Your setbacks,

Your screw ups,

Your mistakes.

But you don't just do that as a form of self-flagellation.

You say,

What did I learn from that?

So it's the second column,

Which I think is so important.

And how can I apply it going forward?

Then he says that when you do that,

He says,

I realized that I was making two mistakes over and over.

That really helped clarify for me what was going on.

Love.

Love.

It's very targeted and specific.

Exactly.

And action oriented.

Exactly.

So I would recommend for our listeners do that.

Especially the ones that seem to come back often in your life or you think about often,

Write them down.

Write them down and next to them,

Really think it through.

What is my lesson from it?

And I'll just one more sentence here.

He says,

The point is to use it productively to say,

Okay,

Wait a second.

This is information.

We're going to think about this and we're going to go through a process to extract a lesson from it.

And I believe very strongly that once you do that,

You will see that the whole,

That,

You know,

As you said,

The third and fourth phase,

Either recommendation or rumination will go away because now you've given it purpose.

And also you've given it a place.

Writing things out takes them outside of you.

You're already 50% better just by writing it out because now you're seeing it,

You're thinking about it,

You're looking at it and it's less emotional.

And you say,

Okay,

Looking at this way,

There's actually,

There's something I can do about this or something I can change in this.

And you don't stay in that place of,

Again,

The shame walking around with the heavy weight of mistakes,

The failed relationship,

Whatever the case may be,

The past errors.

So I want to ask you,

I still have a question for you,

But I just go,

How does a person avoid shame,

Embarrassment,

Self-lag elation and rumination,

Or are they to be avoided at all?

Perhaps brief experience of those emotions are part of the process that helped the lessons stick.

Do you agree with that or not?

I do,

Especially the big,

I think every person's unique in this.

I think there's some people who lean more towards,

You know,

Thinking negatively about themselves.

So maybe you have to be more careful.

Some people lean more towards never thinking badly about themselves and probably should lean more into that.

But if we view,

Which we should,

Life as a constant progress towards growth,

Then the lesson that I need to learn from the big mistake or the small mistake,

They're necessary for me moving forward,

Both neither to make that same mistake again,

But also to become a better person overall.

And sometimes you need the sting of the mistake to help you internalize the lesson.

How often in life- Well,

I call it the burn of embarrassment.

Burn of embarrassment.

Well,

I'm not saying it's the sting of mistakes,

But it is the sting of mistakes.

They're all the same.

Yours is much better.

That's why I think again,

What I really loved about Daniel Pink's book is that,

You know,

It is like,

You know,

It's so common in today's world,

Not even just today's world,

People to think that,

You know,

I should live a life if I'm doing well,

I should live a life with no regrets.

Completely wrong.

As a matter of fact,

We should have a life filled with regrets,

But not that causes pain and that makes us better.

And not that you can stuck with it.

Exactly.

That's the point.

But the point is when you realize that mistakes,

Failures,

And then regret are a perfect part of my growth.

It's all set up.

Necessary.

As a matter of fact,

There's a famous statement in the Talmud,

The ancient Jewish text that says a person can never become a teacher or really- No,

I haven't written it down.

Yeah.

Until they experience failure.

And unless they ex-failed in the same,

Meaning they can't really be a master of anything unless they failed exactly that same thing.

Love that.

Ein Adam,

Omed al-dwar al-kha'ilim k'nich shalba,

Which is the ancient words.

But it means that you can never become a master of anything unless you've actually failed in that exact same thing.

And only through failure,

Only through failure,

Do you become,

I don't want to use the perfect,

A master of that domain.

Now,

I want to say one more thing,

Which I think is so important,

That there's a concept kabbalistically that we say that when you fall,

A fall that brings you towards growth is not a fall,

But rather a growth,

Which means what I hope we are able to do for our listeners is really completely transform how we view both failure and regret,

Not as negative,

Unfortunate events,

But rather beautiful parts of growth and elevation.

Yeah.

Well,

I was going to say my mantra has always been like for many,

Many decades,

I'd rather the pain of discipline rather than pain of regret.

So the discipline really is exactly the list that what's his name,

Mr.

Pink?

Yes,

Daniel Pink.

Daniel Pink offered,

Right?

That's the discipline where you actually look at the things in your life.

You write them down.

You spend time because the thing is this,

When we feel regret,

We want to run from that feeling.

When we feel pain,

We want to run away from that.

We want to.

.

.

Which is kind of paradoxical because we wind up staying in that feeling over and over and over again.

Exactly.

That's the thing.

So the discipline to say,

Okay,

I'm not going to do what feels comfortable for me.

I'm going to sit down.

I'm actually going to feel this fully.

I'm going to think about it and I'm going to use all of that energy and transform it into something that's going to help me grow.

And then you don't stay and make the same choices over and over again.

I find the people that do,

That find themselves in the same situations,

They keep choosing the same thing,

The same relationships,

The same.

.

.

Right over and over again.

It's because they don't actually sit with this process and they aren't actually looking at their mistakes or their errors and say,

Okay,

How is this really informing me to do better or to be better?

Absolutely.

And that's so beautiful because unless you optimize your regret,

In the words of Daniel Pink,

You're not growing.

How do we grow?

We grow mostly from the mistakes that we make.

And again,

Like I said before,

And I think that's the most beautiful part of life.

We are not,

As we spoke about in previous podcasts,

Meant to be perfect.

We're meant to be flawed and mistaken and regretful in the right way,

In the optimized sense of it.

And then we're growing all the time.

And then the point is that then you'd never look back.

You shouldn't be looking back and saying,

Oh,

I fell there.

I elevated there.

I made a terrible mistake there,

But then I fixed it or I fixed some of it.

No,

It's all leading upwards in the process of me becoming the best version of myself.

And that necessitates mistakes,

Failures,

Optimize regret so that I don't repeat them.

By the way,

This even applies to the really,

Really bad things maybe somebody has done.

Let's say that somebody killed someone even.

Even if it was accidental,

Let's say an accidental thing.

And then they regret leaving the house that day.

If I hadn't done it this way,

We go back and like,

We rewind.

If I had just done this,

If I had woken up or the night before,

If I didn't,

Whatever.

Even with really bad things,

Yes,

There will be consequences to our actions,

But you aren't meant to suffer and stay in perpetual pain for the rest of your life.

That's just not the purpose of any human being.

So even with that,

It's really look and say,

Okay,

How can I see this in a different way?

There's always a silver lining.

I'll share with you a story.

Actually today I was talking to a friend of ours,

A very close friend whose father passed away.

And she was sharing something which was very painful for her that and for her whole family actually.

So her dad has been in and out of hospital for the past few months really.

He went to the hospital on a Friday and one of the family members was there with him throughout Friday.

And then Saturday the doctor said,

You know,

He's doing better.

He's doing well.

He's doing well.

And he was conscious and he said,

And she's going back and forth,

Should I stay here through the night?

And then she said,

And she said,

No,

You know what?

The doctor's saying he's doing better.

I should get a good night's sleep.

None of the family members are going to be there tonight.

And she told all them,

He's doing better.

Let's all get a good night's sleep so we can spend all day with him tomorrow.

And then about three or I think it was three or 4 a.

M.

In the middle of that night,

He passed away and he passed away to their regret with no family members in the room.

So of course that sounds pain.

I completely understand.

But what I shared is that you have to understand that if this happened in this way,

That's what his soul needed,

Wanted.

It's what your family needed,

Wanted.

And I understand it's painful to accept,

But that's the wisdom.

That's the wisdom.

And living and understanding that yet the pain of that regret is probably also important for you to experience so that you have different decisions as you go further in life.

But for that situation,

That was the perfect way for his soul to leave this world and for your family to experience it.

And I know this is especially in the painful moments in life.

If we think that we had the ability to make different decisions,

Then it can make it more painful.

But I think that's why this understanding is so important and so freeing,

So freeing.

You are able then to live a much more free life.

Again,

You learn,

But you don't experience or at least diminish the long-term experience of the pain of,

You know,

Why didn't I make a decision?

It's interesting because it reminds me of when my father was passing.

For me,

You know,

It wasn't so much about,

It really wasn't about me.

I didn't feel like I had to be there when his soul left his body in that moment.

For me,

It was really just showing up for him every day when he was in hospice.

And I knew he could hear me on some level.

And he did.

He had an awakening where we connected and he came back to like the father before the disease.

I mean,

Really,

It was like a miracle before my very eyes.

And it was just me and one of my sisters when that happened.

And so I remember my mom at the time from that moment on because she wasn't there in the room,

She slept in the room every night because she wanted to catch that,

Right?

When he passed,

My mom was there and my older sister,

But not the other sister that I was with when he had the awakening.

And we knew he was about to leave.

And so you and I were headed to Santa Monica Beach.

And we turned around and I already knew I wasn't going to make it because I felt that he was leaving and I was okay with it.

I was like,

You know what,

If I'm not meant to be there,

He knows that I've we like he feels me.

I feel him.

I complete closure because,

Again,

I really I said everything I needed to in the years that it wasn't just those that month in the hospice care.

But for my younger sister,

She panicked because her experience,

I guess,

In the last couple of years was different.

She got in a car accident on the way to the hospital.

I mean,

She really because again,

It's like,

Oh,

My God.

And I and even and I and we've spoken a lot about it.

I think even in those situations,

It's okay when you have people that you love and.

It's more clear that the.

The process is really unknown.

It's kind of like it's very obvious that something can happen kind of at any moment.

How do you want to be there?

How do you want to show up for the people you love?

You know,

So I even all the things that I watched in the way that the four of us experienced my dad's departure is still informing me.

Right.

So I think the other message is pay attention to everything because it matters,

Even if it's not your regret,

Even if you're just witnessing somebody else's regret,

You're seeing it to inform you.

And actually,

You know,

I do that all the time.

If I make this decision,

Will I be okay if this is the outcome or if that's the outcome?

I go to extremes,

Right,

To really test myself.

How will you feel about it?

It's been a great tool for me so that I do avoid regret because I have a good relationship with myself.

I know myself well enough to say,

OK,

If I choose X and this thing happens that that I don't want to happen or I choose something else and something else,

I'm able to fast forward through all of that and give myself a really healthy perspective.

And from that healthy space,

Make choices.

So that's the that's the gift and the benefit of checking yourself and learning from your regrets because then they inform you to make better choices and you can trust yourself to show up for you for the rest of your life.

And there's no greater gift and there's no other way to really get there unless you do this work,

This pain of discipline,

Let's call it,

Where you actually go through every mistake,

Through every failure,

Through every error,

Regret,

Whatever it is and say,

OK,

What do I want to learn from here so that I can be a person that knows they can stand on their own and trust themselves to make good choices?

Yeah.

And you're beautiful.

You're really beautiful.

Really important.

Really important.

And it reminded me of a very painful story that somebody we know went through a number of years ago.

His son was they were home at night with his son,

His older son.

And the son was like,

You know,

Let's spend some time together.

And dad,

For whatever reason,

Didn't have the time that night.

And the son went out.

I just got the chills all over.

Oh,

My God.

You remember the story?

Yeah.

And now the son overdosed that night.

He went to a party.

He overdosed that night and died.

And,

You know,

When you think about the pain,

Obviously,

That a father,

God forbid,

Feels when,

You know,

Not only,

Of course,

In the pain of losing a son,

But the fact that he had the opportunity to spend some time with him that night and he didn't before.

And then,

Of course,

You know,

What would have happened?

Well,

You wouldn't have imagined the terrible regrets.

Would we have stayed the whole night together?

And so,

You know,

The first part,

As we spoke about before,

Which is,

You know,

To understand that even the painful parts of life are things that were meant to be.

But your point here,

That unless you're learning from your regrets,

Then you can't get to a place where you are showing up for yourself,

Where you're making better decisions,

Where you're grabbing more opportunities.

You know,

For instance,

I know for you and for me,

When we hear this story,

For example,

You know,

We really learn less from it,

Right?

You do grab opportunities to be with your loved ones and say,

I love you.

You know,

All those things that we know,

But that when you hear a story like that,

It brings it much more top of mind.

And that's why I think what you said is so important.

It's a terrible mistake one makes when not optimizing regret.

Yeah,

It's interesting.

Because yesterday,

One of our kids,

It was like 4.

30 or 5.

And our youngest was out of after school activity.

So,

I had a few more hours to work into the evening and he wanted to spend time together.

And I'm thinking,

I can get another hour and a half of work right now uninterrupted or I can say yes to his bid for attention and connection.

And I thought about it and I was like,

Oh.

And then,

Of course,

I would probably not have made that decision to go with him and stop working in that moment years ago.

But through this process of really watching and learning,

That was like,

Okay,

This is so obviously,

Okay,

Another hour and a half.

Is that really going to change anything?

No.

Right?

So,

I think the regret that most of us have is at some point in our lives,

Usually it's much later,

Is that we didn't live up to our potential or the life that we could have lived.

Not in terms of physical things,

But really.

.

.

Also physical things.

And again,

Quote Daniel Pink again,

I love this phrase.

Because what he did is,

It's really beautiful.

Again,

I strongly recommend the book.

They did a whole study,

People's Greatest Regrets.

And the one that my favorite one is,

And it's an all-encompassing group,

The regret of boldness.

That they weren't bold enough.

That they stayed in a job they didn't like,

Didn't start their own business.

And that,

Of course,

Is a huge category.

And it's interesting because a few weeks ago,

As I was thinking about this new year,

I made for myself a note,

Be more bold.

And I think that is such an important direction,

Especially now it's backed up by science.

This is what most people in the category of what most people regret,

They were not bold enough in life.

So,

Simply to our listeners,

What we're saying,

Regardless of,

I think all the other important things we've shared until now is,

Choose to be more bold.

So,

What does that look like for you to be more bold?

It's just push more,

Do more.

It's not one thing.

It's just be more bold.

I think it's all-encompassing.

And again,

The research shows that one of the biggest group of regrets that people have at any point in their life,

Certainly,

As you said,

As they get later in life,

That at certain points in their lives,

They had a choice to be more bold or stand back.

And too often,

People choose to stand back.

It's like,

What are you waiting for?

And I think that when people live their lives,

Like their ideal selves,

Right,

Is who they want to be is very different from their actual selves,

The way they live their lives.

When it's so far apart,

Of course,

You're going to live a life of regret because everything you're doing in your actions,

Again,

If they're not lined up,

They're very important.

And more important,

You're not learning from the regret.

Are you interrupting me?

Yes.

And then of course,

You're going to make choices that are not in your ultimate best interests.

They're going to be only based on where you are now.

So,

How do we avoid regrets?

One book that really inspired me,

I found it years and years ago.

It's The Five Regrets of the Dying.

I've mentioned it in different places.

It's worth mentioning,

Definitely.

Today it was written originally as a blog by a woman who worked in hospice care and she really,

She helped a lot of people transition to,

You know,

Out of this life.

And she found a theme that they all had the same five regrets.

And so,

When I read that list originally,

I was like,

Okay,

I am going to pay attention to this and definitely use this.

And I think that helped me get to the place where I made the right choice yesterday with one of our kids.

So her name is Bronnie Ware.

And again,

It's a great book,

The Top Five Regrets of the Dying.

And she shares that overwhelmingly,

People facing their death share many of the same regrets.

First is,

I wish I had had the courage to live a life true to myself,

Not the life others expected me to.

So,

I guess that is to your boldness,

Right?

Two,

I wish I hadn't worked so hard.

Three,

I wish I had the courage to express my feelings.

Four,

I wish I had stayed in touch with my friends.

And five,

I wish that I had,

I love this one,

Five,

I wish that I had let myself be happier.

And I love the list because it tells us what we will regret if we don't pay attention to now.

It's kind of like having a crystal ball.

Yeah,

It's really beautiful.

Really,

Really.

And like you said,

We've spoken about this before,

But like you said,

I do think every one of us should be thinking about this often.

Because every one of those categories,

I'm sure we can all find things where we should be making different choices and focusing on different parts.

It's really beautiful.

So if you would leave our listeners today with one idea,

What would it be?

Well,

I actually want to ask another question.

I think in the past two years,

You and I have experienced a loss of a loved one.

And I mean,

Maybe this question is better for me,

But did you feel your loved one had regrets that echo any of these findings?

And were the regrets different?

And if so,

Why?

It's interesting.

I've shared this that,

So my mother passed away and one of the beautiful things and really one of the reasons why I'm even more inspired by her and her life to strongly both pursue my own spiritual growth and development in the way that I do and hopefully share it with others is that they say that you often know what a person was and what type of life they lived by how they leave this world.

And it was so beautiful to see.

And we actually had overt conversations about this,

How she literally had zero regrets.

It didn't mean that she didn't think she'd made mistakes.

Of course she did,

But she had the opportunity to both fix what she thought needed to be fixed,

Talk about what she thought needed to be spoken about.

And we had,

Me and her,

And I know you and her and my mother had many,

Many conversations around this where,

Yeah,

In the families,

Of course you're going to hurt each other,

You're going to do things that you shouldn't do and so on and so forth.

But to have the opportunity to fix it all,

To have an opportunity to get to a place where no regrets,

For me that I find it to this day and hopefully I believe forever so inspiring.

When you live a life that is towards growth and towards helping others,

You will make mistakes.

Absolutely.

You will have regrets throughout life,

Absolutely,

As we spoke about until now.

But you have the blessing to be able to leave this world without regrets.

And why do you think that people often don't allow themselves to get to this place until to confront the fact that they were filled with regrets,

But they didn't finish what they needed to until the end of their life?

Say that again?

Because most people are filled with profound regret when they're dying.

Why do you think that that happens then?

I think it's everything we've spoken about until now.

I think that unless you're optimizing regret throughout life- But what wakes them up in that moment?

Oh,

I think obviously when a person realizes there's no more fixing- There's no more time.

There's no more time,

There's no more fixing.

Then of course,

If you haven't fixed throughout your life or even in the last few years,

If you have the opportunity,

Then of course there are going to be monumental regrets.

And also perhaps I think they're vulnerable,

More vulnerable than they've ever been in that stage.

Right,

Right.

And from that space,

Of course,

I think things come in and you have- Clarity.

The clarity that often you can't have unless you seek it.

What was important,

Right.

Where did I waste my time?

Where did I waste my words?

And who did I not?

Yeah,

It's very painful.

Yeah.

And again,

And the point of bringing this up now is not for the pain,

But to realize- Well,

Pain is a good healthy awakening.

That every one of us,

Every one of our listeners has the opportunity not to get to that point.

But only if you're working now.

You know,

And that- Yeah,

Start now.

Yeah,

Start now.

That was when my father passed.

It's almost a year ago and I shared this with you.

The biggest pain for me,

Biggest pain for me in losing him was that he didn't,

He had so many dreams and he wanted his life to end such a different way and he had so much regret that that was really painful for me,

That he didn't have the ability or the opportunity to try anymore.

You know?

Right,

But you have to know that that was the perfect process for his soul.

I know,

But it was just- And more importantly,

You learn,

You and hopefully many others.

For sure,

For sure.

And I don't have that pain anymore,

But that was the like,

Ping in my heart.

Like,

I'm sorry,

Dad,

That you ran out of time,

You know?

Well,

Thank you for being vulnerable and sharing that.

It seems like a weird segue,

But- Did you have a question for me?

Oh,

Actually I did have a question for you,

But I think we're sort of kind of running out of time.

Maybe I won't answer it.

I'm just curious what it is.

No,

No,

No,

It was just,

Can you share a regret that you've had either recently or a significant regret that you've had in life?

You know,

I was thinking about that because I actually just wanted to share that without even asking.

And I was thinking about so many things and I just don't regret anything.

I mean,

I guess the most recent was with the Rupture Tendon,

Which I hope you all aren't tired of me talking about this and I will stop once I'm on the other side of it fully.

But I was speaking to somebody and she's like,

Well,

How did it happen?

And this is like when I was still in the cast and everything.

And I said,

You know,

Wear and tear,

Just using the same motion,

Doing the same motion over and over again,

Running,

Dancing,

That lift,

Jumping.

By the way,

It's like all the fun things in life.

And she's,

And I said,

But I don't have any regrets.

You know,

I enjoyed everything that I did until this day.

But you do have lessons from it,

Right?

I'm not finished,

Mr.

Berg.

And she's like,

Well,

Don't you wish that you had done things differently?

Don't you,

You know,

Maybe you would have not done the things that you did.

That's how she said it.

And no,

I actually would have done the same thing.

What I would have done and what I learned,

I mean,

I learned many,

Many other spiritual lessons,

But just physically what I would have done is cross train more.

So we don't,

You know,

Use many other muscles and you've strengthened other things.

And maybe it doesn't have to be like diehard every day running a marathon like that extreme level.

Although I really enjoy that very much still.

Yeah.

Lesson learned,

But I don't have regret.

I mean,

I wouldn't have done it.

I would have probably appreciated it.

I would have appreciated my body more in the time.

And I also just wouldn't have driven myself so hard every day,

But I can't even call it regret because it was fun and I enjoyed it and it gives me light.

But I am informed and I will do things a little bit differently going forward in that area.

Sure.

But I don't have that feeling of regret.

That's perfect,

Right?

That's optimizing regret.

Yeah,

There you go.

Perfect.

So I gave a letter because I don't even know that.

Yes.

Yes.

So hi guys.

Just wanted to drop a quick email to say thank you for your podcast.

I was fortunate to stumble across your podcast whilst looking for empowering content on insight timer.

Your latest episode regarding leadership is amazing as are all of your episodes.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I spent my time between Sydney and Melbourne,

Australia.

Times are very difficult here.

And the level of anxiety being experienced is great.

I've been lucky enough to be able to step outside of this anxiety.

It has taken me a lot of internal work to be able to do this and view the craziness from a different angle.

As I move into 2022,

I have many plans for my life and your podcasts are inspirational to me.

Wishing you both all the best.

Thank you so much from my heart,

Mandely.

So first of all,

Thank you,

Amanda for,

Uh,

Mandely for sending your story.

And I love the fact that it's so sort of coincidental that you found this,

This podcast,

Our podcast.

So as a reminder to all of our listeners,

Please continue to send your stories,

Questions,

Topics,

And anything else to Monica and Michael at kabala.

Com.

Your stories inspire us,

Your stories inspire our listeners,

Your questions inspire our topics and our podcasts.

So please continue to send everything to Monica and Michael at kabala.

Com.

And as usual,

I hope you enjoyed listening to this podcast as much as we enjoyed recording it.

Stay spiritually hungry.

Bye.