An Enpowering Conversation About The Sales Pitch

Welcome to the Clearing the Creative Podcast.

This is a place where it is open and free for us to talk about the things that are hard,

The things that are blocking us in our creative journey,

On our path to our purpose,

And to look at those fears,

Look at those blocks,

Examine them,

Laugh about them,

Make them less intimidating so we can forge our way through them.

We can clear the way,

The things on the path to the creative.

Name drop of the podcast.

I hope that this conversation,

I know that this conversation is going to resonate with a lot of people because finding a way to give our pitch,

To make money,

To turn our passion and our gifts into something that we can be sustained from,

That is the dream,

Right?

It was wonderful talking to Simone about her blocks in this.

She's a professional tarot and astrologist,

Tarot reader and astrologist,

And even if you're not in that spiritual world at all,

I really think that this conversation can help you too because it's about looking at why money is hard.

I don't go into these conversations to fix anyone,

I say that later on.

There's so many truths that we already know but we have a hard time knowing up here in our brains,

So my goal here is to give people things to journal about,

Things to reflect on and to help them in that inner work to overcome the struggles,

But also to give some practical support and advice too,

And we did that.

I'm really happy that I could give her some things that could help her.

So without any further ado,

Let's get into it.

This podcast is about helping people with their creative blocks and I've been really excited to talk to you about yours because it's not so much of an expressing creativity block,

But it is something that all artists face,

So would you like to introduce yourself and your problem briefly?

Sure,

Yes.

I'm Simone,

I'm a tarot reader,

You can see the T,

And an astrologist,

And I've been running my own business now as a professional tarot reader and astrologist for about a year now,

And I'm ready to level up my income,

But I keep hitting blocks,

But that's where I'm at.

All right,

Yeah,

Because there's times when you're doing little offerings and I'm like,

Hey,

Sure,

I'll take a free reading because I'm like,

I'll take whatever I can get,

And also,

It's just,

If nobody else is going to do it,

And all input is good input,

So the more activity is happening on your page,

The more chance there is for people to see it,

But the other time you were saying that you wanted to practice your pitch for a longer term thing,

And you just were like,

I'm sweating,

I'm nervous,

I hate this,

I'm so and I'm like,

It's okay,

You know I can't afford it,

So there's no pressure,

There's literally nothing to lose,

The stakes are non-existent,

And then we thought,

Hey,

This would be a good thing to talk about,

To talk about that block that's there about putting that sales pitch out.

Yeah,

Absolutely,

And I think it comes down to a lot of different things.

Certainly,

You know,

The way that sales is viewed in our society is not like,

It's definitely not a good thing in our society,

And I think that comes with some of the sales pressure that,

You know,

Traditional salespeople are taught to put on the people that they have in their sales calls.

Mm-hmm,

The thing my friend Dan calls commission breath.

Oh,

Yeah.

So how does it feel in your body and in your mind and heart when you're about to start your pitch?

Yeah,

It feels like,

Oh,

My throat gets tightened up,

And I feel like my stomach gets in knots,

And I don't want to say it,

And I get nervous,

And I have to like,

Just like the words come out,

But it's like,

I don't even really feel like I'm saying them.

You know what I mean?

Like,

Would you say it's like a disassociating kind of thing?

It could be,

Yeah.

What other things in your life have made you feel like that?

Oh,

Yeah,

I think confrontation is one of them.

Confrontation.

Yeah.

So do you think that there's a thing in there that's like sales equals confrontation?

Oh,

Yeah.

Yeah,

Absolutely.

Like if you're out somewhere,

And somebody like stops you because you parked your car wrong or whatever,

They like,

Like,

I don't know anything,

And you have to get into that.

It's almost like the fight or flight kind of reaction.

Yeah,

Is money something that's been rough for you,

Like as a kid,

Or as a grown up,

Or both?

Both,

Yeah.

Both?

Well,

I mean,

It's funny,

Because poverty comes in my family down the line.

So there's a lot of poverty mentality within my family.

And my father specifically actually made a pretty good living when we were young.

And,

You know,

We actually had a pretty easy,

I would say,

Like,

Almost middle class type of life.

But there was always this mentality that it was going to go away at any moment.

And that there was never enough.

Right.

Did your,

Were your parents as influenced as my parents were about being raised by people who went through the Great Depression?

Yeah,

That's my grandparents.

Yeah,

This must be a serious thing.

Like,

Since that time,

What was that the 20s that happened?

Like,

So every generation since then,

To some degree,

It's trickled down.

I've really struggled myself in like,

Hate is a strong word.

But in a sense,

Hating people who didn't struggle.

Like,

Yeah,

Like,

It's not fair that they get to have the Jansport backpack.

I never got to have the cool Jansport backpack at school.

You know,

Like,

Yeah,

The Tommy Hilfiger clothes,

These things.

And it's so hard to,

Like,

It's still hard for me to understand when I see people like,

Look at my Gucci bag,

Like,

But that's like $5,

000.

Why would you be proud of that?

I would be so embarrassed.

Like,

Anytime I get anything nice,

I still have to feel like,

But it was on sale,

But it was a gift.

Like,

I have to defend it,

But nobody cares.

I know what you mean.

And recently I've been reading a book called You Are a Badass at Making Money.

And one of the things,

Some of the activities around mindset of money that authors Jen Sincero,

That she puts into the book is think about 10 things that money did that was really awesome in your life.

And then think about if you had more money or if your friends had more money,

What,

How would you change the world?

And what would be,

You know,

The trickle effect that you would actually be able to help the people around you?

And when you start to think of it in that light,

You're like,

Actually,

It's really cool to have money.

And there are the type of people,

Like,

Maybe you would buy yourself a Gucci bag,

Maybe,

And that would be like totally okay and cool.

But maybe you're not even that type.

Maybe you're the type that would put $5,

000 into something else,

You know?

And so it's interesting because we think money is the issue.

And I do this myself all the time.

We think money is the issue,

But really it's just an expression of how that energy looks based on the person.

So yeah,

If you get,

You're driving and a Bentley cuts you off in traffic,

Then you think,

Oh,

All rich people are evil.

But that person might have cut you off just as much as if they were,

You know,

Driving into some clunker.

But I think that that creative block,

It's the,

They go so far back to hearing parents argue about money to taking in that feeling of we don't have enough.

So if I ask someone else for money,

I'm taking something that they need away from them.

But another way to frame that is,

It's like,

Have you ever had trouble accepting a gift from someone?

Yeah,

Accepting generosity?

Yeah,

Absolutely.

Like,

You have had trouble accepting?

Okay,

Because I always grew up with the mentality of,

If people want to give you something,

Don't rob them of the opportunity to bless you.

Yeah,

Like that's,

That's their gift.

And that makes them feel good.

It's not like we go around.

Well,

I actually did have to go around begging when I was doing the theater acting thing,

But that was a kind of different situation.

But it's not like you're like,

I can't get milk.

But,

But it's,

I lost my train of thought there.

But it's giving people,

When you have something to offer,

And it costs money for you to live to buy diapers,

If your baby's still,

If your baby's not potty trained,

And rent and electricity,

And la la la.

Like,

To give people the opportunity to bless you,

And to receive the worth of what you have to offer.

Yeah.

But it's so hard to rewrite these stories.

Yeah.

I mean,

I know what you mean.

You're not taking something.

You're not stealing.

You're not confronting.

You're,

You're literally needing to live.

You literally have these gifts that are not explainable by science.

They're,

They're not,

They're not quantifiable.

So it's really much harder than to be like,

Hey,

I'm selling this bag.

And you're getting,

You give me,

Give me 10 bucks and you get this bag.

But you're offering guidance,

And support,

And a connection to the mystical,

The mystical,

And a friend,

A coach,

That's like kind of what you're offering.

Like a longer term,

Like we meet together every week,

Or every two weeks,

Or whatever fits for their schedule.

Yeah.

And it's funny because I've already sold this,

You know,

100 times at lower prices.

Mm.

And for some reason,

A bigger price.

And all it is,

Is like a longer term.

So actually the price itself is not different.

Because my hour is my hour,

You know.

But because it's a longer term thing,

And it's more like involved,

And it's more,

I don't know,

Like it's deeper work than just a one-off reading.

I have thoughts about,

Am I even going to be able to do that?

And then I have thoughts about,

You know,

Why would anybody want to?

It's just stupid.

I know it's not true.

It's like,

Why would anybody want to do a,

Like a long-term thing with me?

You know?

That sounds so pitiful.

No,

It's,

It's everybody.

Every,

Every person that has anything to offer gets that way.

If they don't,

There's something else going on in their head.

They're like the opposite,

Like grandiose.

I am halfway to a god,

And of course people want this,

But.

Yeah.

Sometimes I think it'd be easier to be like that.

Can we just do that?

So sales is viewed,

It's viewed as a greedy,

Pushy,

Not listening to the audience.

Not listening to the other person's things.

What are their,

What are their bad feelings?

Is there,

Do you have against sales experiences you've had?

Yes.

Okay.

A lady came to our house one time selling vacuums door to door.

And she came in and she was like wanting to do this entire demonstration on the vacuum.

And we were not going to buy a vacuum.

They knew we weren't going to buy a vacuum.

And yet,

I don't know if my dad let her in because he thought she was cute.

My dad was a single dad.

Or I don't know why,

But he was like,

Yeah,

Come inside and do a vacuum demonstration.

And she was in our house for like two hours doing this vacuum demonstration.

And,

And I could feel like my dad wanted her to leave at some point.

And,

But he couldn't say it.

I don't know.

He was,

You know,

He's like a nice guy,

I guess.

And I,

In the end,

I had to be the one to be like,

We're not going to buy this vacuum.

Like,

Go away.

How old were you?

I don't know.

I was a little kid.

I mean,

I was like probably maybe 11,

Maybe 12.

Yeah.

But I remember thinking like,

Hush,

You know,

That sucks.

A,

As a job and B,

On the receiving end.

It's like,

We don't want a vacuum.

I don't know why you've been in my house for two hours.

Get out,

You know.

And yeah,

I think always sales jobs,

Like even the people in my family,

Whenever,

I don't know if you had this back where you're from.

Where are you from originally?

Utah.

Utah.

You might have.

Do you remember those Cutco knives?

Those what?

It's a brand of knives called Cutco.

No,

But I haven't been in America in so long either.

No,

This was back in like the 2000s,

But early 2000s,

I'm trying to say.

But it's like a brand of knives that you could sell basically,

Like you would go door to door or you would,

You know,

Or like that people used to do is with Tupperware or Mary Kay Makeup.

Yeah.

You know what I'm talking about?

Oh,

Yeah.

And for some reason,

Like that was always seen as like not a real job or not a good job,

You know.

So when you look at the things that are wrong with those experiences,

And then you can like hold yourself up against that,

Like,

Well,

I feel like I have a fairly in tune intuition.

If I know that someone is not a right fit,

I wouldn't steal their time.

Um,

I respect the no,

Like,

I'm not that.

So then you can really start to remove yourself from that position.

Yeah,

Maybe even come up with a different word than sales.

Like,

I've heard other people in the spiritual market use it more as investment.

Like,

Are you do you want to invest this this into your into your life?

Into your life?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean,

I know all that stuff,

Logically,

And I call it investments,

But it doesn't change the reaction I have.

Yeah,

I know.

It's like,

Have you ever tried not being that way?

Like with anxiety or depression?

Don't be sad.

Don't be anxious.

Like,

Why didn't I think of that?

So how you you're somebody who's very in tune with your body to have like,

Where emotions are stored,

Because that like has a lot to do with chakras,

Doesn't it?

Yeah,

Sure.

Like,

If it's hard to speak,

It's like your throat chakra and you like,

There's like some things you can say to kind of remind yourself of the truth.

Yeah.

I'm really interested in the disassociating thing,

That it doesn't feel like it's you saying it.

Does it?

Is it like a defense mechanism of if I'm not here,

Then they're not going to take this sales pitch personally and think I'm a terrible person?

Are they going to judge?

Is it a fear of judgment?

Yeah,

I think it's a fear of rejection.

I think what you just said is very interesting.

If I'm not here,

Then they don't get to reject me,

I think is more like what it is.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The things that we do to protect ourselves.

And the thing that you said,

It's another thing you said that jumped out at me was not a real job,

That the those those Mary Kay people,

Those knife people,

That's embarrassing.

There's so there's a lingering embarrassment about,

Do you have a lingering embarrassment that what you're doing is not a real job?

Yeah.

Yeah,

100% because it's not in the terms of what people would have called it back then,

You know,

They would have been like,

That's not a real job.

Yeah,

Especially those woo-woo world.

Professional astrologer.

I mean,

No,

Professional tarot reader.

It's like,

Come on,

That would never.

We know what to do with witches.

Yeah,

I mean,

Really,

Like,

That's not a real job,

It's like,

Yeah.

Have you ever heard of this thing called the witch wound?

I want to look more into it because it sounds really interesting.

But what my guess is that it's it's in our DNA.

You know,

It's just like people who were descendants from this,

From Africans who were brought to to America and other parts of the world that carry that wound in their DNA of,

You know,

The trauma of that.

And it's like,

I know somebody,

He never,

His mother was deathly afraid of white picket fences and what they represented,

Because that was a real sign of danger and pain for her.

And he had this feeling about them,

Even though he never experienced what she experienced growing up in Ukraine.

And so I have a feeling that the witch wound is that the witches in our past,

In our DNA that were burned,

That were shunned.

Like the whole have you heard about the witch thing,

Like the whole the gnarly fingers,

The missing teeth,

The green skin,

You know where that comes from?

Women who were tortured and left in isolation and then paraded out,

Have being in total darkness and being broken.

They looked not human.

Their skin had a green pallor to it.

They're the broken teeth and the scraggly hair and the things were effects of literally being tortured.

And so people could be like,

Oh,

My God,

I don't want to be a witch.

Literally being tortured.

And so people could look at them and,

You know,

They were tortured to the point of saying,

Yes,

I worship Satan and naked in the moonlight.

You know,

They would say people are tortured.

We'll say whatever it takes.

So people could look at them and see these not human beings and be like,

Oh,

That's what that is.

You know,

Don't want anything to do with that.

Gosh,

That's intense.

Oh,

So I have a feeling that that's the witch wound is I don't I can't I have to protect myself because if people find out the truth about my gifts of who I am,

That's going to happen to me.

Yeah.

It totally could be.

And I think like where I mean,

Yeah,

I don't even know how I would begin to like.

Unpack that.

Yeah,

I mean,

Yeah.

Like in this podcast,

It's not a I'm going to fix you.

I need fixing myself,

Obviously,

Like.

But I think it's a lot of I want I want to give people a lot of things to think a journal about to dig into themselves about.

But I also do want to give you some practical steps to.

And see if anything is something that you haven't heard before or clicks in a different way that it's like,

Oh,

Yeah,

I can try that at least I can try that one little thing.

Yeah.

So have you ever told people like.

OK,

I want to give you the opportunity to work long term or do you think it would be a good idea?

Do you think it would help you to work long term with me?

And if they say like that wording,

OK,

Write it down,

I'll give you a sec to do that.

Yeah,

I was going to.

Wait,

What did you say?

Do you think it would benefit you to work long term with me?

When you've really gotten to when you've really listened,

Because in the sales pitch has to be like 73.

72 percent listening.

Like,

Yeah,

When you really hear what their struggles are,

What they're what they're what they're hoping to accomplish is.

And as your as your intuition is kind of feeding to you,

Like the roots of their issues,

You know,

Like how deep down their fear of poverty goes,

How deep down these things are and thinking like,

Let's see,

That's that's a 45 minute session.

OK,

They want to do that.

That's a 45 minute session.

You kind of can build what you would be offering as you're listening.

And absolutely.

And then feeling your body as you're doing this,

Like in a perfect world,

You believe so strongly in what you have to offer and what you're what you what you can work with them through that you're excited at this point.

You're feeling like a like a heart thumping,

The good kind of sweating,

You know,

Like I'm I'm on a roll.

I'm going and.

And then in the less perfect world,

You're like your throat is in your heart is in your throat and you start to feel sick,

Like,

OK,

I'm heading towards the pitch.

Yeah,

You can listen to your body so hard in that point and you can tell the person I'm nervous about this.

I have I have issues with money myself that I need to work through,

But I'm going to just say it because I I really do believe I can help you.

And this is what I would ask for for a 12 week thing.

Thing.

And stop no apologizing about this number,

No feeling bad or guilty,

Just let them take it in.

Yeah.

That's so true.

I have a lot of experience with the sales when I had to sell sell myself for the theater programs,

And it took so many years for me to stop being apologetic about what we ask,

Because for so many people,

It's they will literally spend two hundred dollars for a birthday present for someone they barely know.

It's no big deal for them.

Yeah.

So to not be apologetic about it is really,

Really important,

Just saying it like you would say your your grocery list.

I want to do something.

I want you to try to give a little pitch.

Oh,

God.

And if you do badly,

I'm definitely going to leave it in the pod.

Oh,

God.

All right.

OK.

OK.

All right.

So then you have to pretend like you're.

Oh,

Yes,

I am.

So I'm so in awe of how you read that those cards for me.

Like,

How did you do that?

I want to learn that.

OK.

So would you like to find out how to actually have a better sentence that you just gave me?

Katie,

Do you think it would benefit you to work with me long term?

Absolutely.

And what is your biggest goal right now?

My biggest goal is to find a man and have 12 babies.

Oh,

All right.

That's not my goal.

I'm happily married with three children,

But I'm playing a role.

I'm a character.

I love it.

I love it.

OK,

Well,

In order to like really get into the dating coaching,

Let's say,

And to really like,

You know,

Listen to the cards and the timing of the astrology and figure out where you are in the process and what things need to be healed.

I would recommend a six month package.

OK,

How how much would that be?

The six month package to bring you from where you are now to really fully accepting and love in whatever form that is and hopefully finding a partner and having 12 babies would be,

Let's just say,

And I actually have a number for this,

But let's just say would be twelve hundred.

OK,

How does that sound?

Is there a do you put it monthly installments work or?

Yeah,

Of course.

Why not?

OK,

So how did that feel?

Terrible.

Did it feel just as bad as it has before?

No,

It's gotten easier.

But I've had like I've been practicing these past two weeks.

Like I've had a lot of sales calls and I haven't sold anything.

But I've gotten to practice a few times.

Mm hmm.

And,

You know,

Another perfectly acceptable thing to do would be.

What's that to say?

I really want to do some work myself.

I want to really meditate on you and our conversation.

And I want to,

You know,

Get some guidance to put together some a package fitted to your needs.

You don't have to pretend like you have a dating package.

Yeah,

You don't have to try to come up with every possible package that people could have either.

You can really say,

I want to I want to do it,

Do it right.

And I want to do it as tailored to you as possible.

So I'll get back to you once I've I've come up with that is does that work for you?

Oh,

Cool.

I love that.

That has never occurred to me at all.

Hey,

What a great idea,

Because really,

Yeah,

The tarot cards could do that so easily.

And astrology,

Like if I just would look at the timing and be like.

I mean,

How excited you got about the birthday of this podcast,

Like you take that excitement in like,

Yeah,

You take that joy in that in that sense of meaning and purpose.

Yeah,

You and and you can really confidently offer something from that.

And then remembering that it's not a rejection of you.

It's not there.

It's not the right season.

It's not the right timing.

It's not maybe not the right reader,

Whatever.

Yeah,

There's a there's a really awesome guy named Will.

Will,

I can't find his last name,

But he he has come up with this thing called the helper's paradox,

Where the more you want to help something,

The more you need to help something,

The less you can.

And so it's like removing yourself from that.

I don't need to help.

I'm available to help.

Interesting.

Yeah,

But that feels really good.

I feel like I feel do you feel like you've gotten some practical support there towards your towards this block?

Yeah,

Look at those notes.

Yay.

This is what I want to do myself.

I want to have these podcasts and then I want to ask people,

Hey,

Do you want to work long term with me?

And yeah.

On a longer term basis towards a specific goal.

And I want to get the confidence about that,

Too.

So I'll be in that same position once I am putting myself out there more.

So I'll have to listen back to this probably.

I mean,

You gave great advice,

So you'll probably if you listen back,

You'll be like,

Dang,

Katie,

Good job.

Yeah.

Cool.

Do you have any last thing you'd like to say?

Thank you.

OK,

I end all my podcasts like this.

I give hugs.