Found Voices Season 2 # 1: Carolyn Talks With Egan Gauntt

Hello,

I'm Carolyn Zeal.

Welcome to Found Voices,

Which I will call this episode one of season two.

I am now interviewing other writers,

Other talented and incredible writers,

Such as my first guest,

Egan Gaunt.

She was born in Alabama and moved to Los Angeles to study art history at USC and work in the film industry.

After eight years in art and set decorating department,

She left the industry to have a family.

She worked as an interior decorator on residential and commercial projects when she wasn't world schooling her two kids.

Now her children are in college and she has started writing and finding her voice thanks to her amazing teacher,

Jack Grapes.

She lives in Venice,

California,

Where she continues to work in interior design and is currently writing a memoir.

And let me just say one thing about Egan's voice.

It's definitely a found voice.

She has found her voice and continues to bypass her talent and tap into her genius,

Which will be evidenced in the piece that she will read toward the end of the podcast.

So please stay tuned.

You'd hate to miss that.

Thanks so much for listening and right on.

Give me your elevator pitch.

My elevator pitch.

I don't really have one.

So found voices a great name,

By the way.

Oh,

Thank you.

I came up with the idea because I find that people,

You know,

I've been studying with Jack for 2008,

Right since then we were in the classroom.

And I've seen people as they sort of get their groove and find their voice on the page.

Their lives change.

I've seen people like fall in love and get married in class.

So I,

I realized one day found voices like that's what it's all about.

I mean,

Jack might say it's,

It's not about writing like you talk or find it,

But it's about,

You know,

That kind of evolution.

A hundred percent.

It is definitely,

He can call it whatever he wants,

But it is,

It's finding your voice.

And it's,

It's like,

I,

I mean,

I like laugh when I think about my path along this journey,

But now it's cool because I've been doing it for,

You know,

Over a year and a half now.

So it's like,

I see other people who are starting and I,

I'm like,

Oh my God,

That's so sweet.

You're exactly like I was,

You know,

You're holding back,

Holding back.

And then suddenly the,

You know,

The walls start to come down a little.

And it's so cool to watch.

Yes.

It's amazing.

And did you always write?

Cause some people come to that class.

They've never written.

A lot of people come to method writing.

Everybody says I should write a book and then other people have been writing their whole lives or somewhere in between.

So what's your,

What's your story around that?

Um,

I really never wrote before.

I went to a school,

Like I went to a pretty good school where I learned how to write properly,

Like essay writing,

Um,

But not really creative writing.

And so,

Yeah,

This has been a whole different process for me.

I don't,

I mean,

It honestly feels like a miracle that like the voice that's coming out of this work,

To be honest,

People kind of even like look at my texts or certain things and they're like,

You're a good writer,

You know?

And I was like,

Okay,

I don't know,

But I just never really,

Really did it.

And I think part of me,

Like maybe deep,

Deep,

Deep somewhere buried down,

I felt like maybe I was a writer,

But I was,

I just never really knew how to access that or I was just afraid,

You know?

So I just never really did anything with it.

And then a friend of mine was like,

Oh,

You should really take this guy's class,

Jack Grapes.

Um,

I was like,

Cool,

Great.

Maybe I'll do that one day.

And then the,

I don't know,

It just kind of became one of those things that like the call got louder and louder until I was like,

Okay,

I'm just going to do this thing.

And then I did and I was like,

Okay,

This is like kind of my worst nightmare,

To be honest.

I was like,

I'm just not really comfortable.

I'm like a shy person.

I'm not that comfortable being vulnerable.

And suddenly I was having to like write from the depths of my soul and say it out loud.

I mean,

The first like two sessions,

I would read so fast that people were like,

Can you just stop?

Like,

What are you doing?

And,

Um,

But like once I took that first class,

I was like,

I can't stop.

I can't not do this.

It feels really like something important is happening here and I have to do it.

And I love Jack.

And so kind of just decided like,

I'll never stop.

Like,

As long as he's teaching,

I'm just going to take every class that I can take.

Yeah,

I do that.

It's funny because you said you were afraid and there's so many of us,

Like we don't think of ourselves as writers.

So we're not going to write.

We write on the side.

We have something in a draw somewhere,

You know,

Tucked away.

Actors don't seem to be the same or dancers or artists.

They just do it.

What do you think it is about writing that keeps us not doing it?

That keeps us,

Because I'm saying us,

At least me and you for the longest time afraid.

Yeah,

I think that I do think there's a vulnerability to it that maybe is a little bit different from like dancing.

You're learning a dance.

You're somebody who's giving you choreography.

I mean,

That's not always true.

I guess there's people who are kind of making up their own dances or singing.

You've got something to kind of tether you to like a melody or like lyrics.

This,

I just feel like you're creating something out of such a deep place and it just feels so terrifying to share that.

And I guess not all writing is that.

I mean,

There's plenty of people doing romance novels or like murder mysteries.

I mean,

I guess it doesn't have to be that deep,

But I think this kind of writing that Jack is asking people to do is a bearing of your soul that is scary.

I mean,

There have been times when I've started to write a piece and I'm like,

I don't want to even write this.

I don't want to look at this part of myself.

I don't want to even know that this is why I'm making these choices I'm making.

The process is so weird.

It's almost like these kind of ideas like float into my brain and sometimes it just comes easily.

And sometimes I'm so terribly uncomfortable that I'm like,

Start to write this thing.

I'm like,

I need to write this.

This feels important.

And then I'm like,

I just,

I'm like,

I'm just going to walk around the neighborhood like 75 times.

Like,

Maybe come back to this.

It's just horrible.

But it reminds me of the piece you're going to read because it's a little bit about this,

But there is your,

I think you're right.

I think there's something to the fact that it is bearing your soul.

And the thing about when people learn Jack Grape's method writing and the deep voice,

Even when they're writing murder mysteries or romances or historical novels or whatever,

They tend,

There are students that stick with not the deep voice,

But they tend to find moments.

And I think that's what endears us to those characters more than maybe other books out there.

Yeah.

And I think that's why this class feels so close.

I mean,

I think that's one of the things that I found so beautiful about being a part of this class and like going through this experience because well,

Everyone's so supportive.

You know,

I remember when I first started,

I was like,

Ooh,

Is it going to be like,

What kind of feedback is it going to be like,

Oh,

That was not really that interesting.

I'm sorry.

And everything is just like always super positive and really,

Really supportive.

And also you just hear people telling like the darkest things about their lives and,

And,

And it's like met with,

Okay.

Yeah.

Great.

Me too.

I've heard people say stuff and,

And,

And like,

And a lot of it is relatable.

The universal is kind of familiar.

And some of it's like,

I don't have any way of even like accessing what this person has gone through.

Like,

This is just something that's so foreign to me,

But because it's coming from such an authentic place that you just can't help,

But like whoever's reading this,

This piece and like,

You know,

Love the fact that they're willing to even like share it with you.

And that has just been like a life lesson for me.

It's like,

Oh,

Right.

This is how you,

This is how you connect with people really sharing,

Sharing yourself in a way that is,

You know,

Maybe not the obvious.

I agree.

I think that when you meet people at a cocktail party or work or whatever,

You meet them well in your head,

You meet them,

You know,

For through,

As we would say the reporting voice,

Right.

But when you meet people through their writing,

You meet them through their heart.

I think as cheesy as that sounds,

But I truly think so.

Like I said,

You know,

I've seen people get married.

I've seen their lives change.

I've seen them change as human beings has it.

If it has how has it affected,

You know,

Taking Jack's class and finding your voice,

Which is phenomenal and unique,

How has it affected maybe what you do in the world?

And I kind of think I know what you do and you've said it like just recently,

But I think I don't remember what you do.

So I'm sorry.

And how has it,

Has it affected or changed?

Yeah.

I mean,

I think it's completely changed my life.

I honest to God think taking this class has completely changed my life.

Better than any therapy,

Right?

Yeah.

I was doing therapy for years.

I was like,

God,

I got my life.

I got this figured out,

You know,

And then I get into a relationship and be like,

I do not got this.

Like,

Okay,

This is more of the same.

Like,

Why am I still doing this?

And it's so funny.

I mean,

This is kind of an embarrassing thing to say out loud,

But two years ago,

Christmas,

Uh,

New year's Eve,

I was like,

I'm going to make a resolution to tell more people that I love them.

I'm gonna just like,

There are so many people that I love in my life and I'm just like,

Not that comfortable,

You know,

Just being,

You know,

Just saying,

I love you.

It just wasn't part of my upbringing.

Like my family didn't say it really.

And,

And so it's like,

I'm going to make this a thing.

And then I was like,

Oh God,

This is weird.

I was so uncomfortable.

And I think that,

I think that that was an interesting intention,

But I think I had to do all this kind of work in this class to kind of break down all these walls that I had in these barriers that I have.

And now it,

Now that love just flows more freely.

It doesn't,

It's not like I have to think about it,

You know,

And,

And it doesn't make me uncomfortable.

I'm like,

Oh,

Right.

This is just how I'm showing up in the world.

It just,

I'm just operating on a different kind of level now.

I just,

I feel more in touch with my own myself.

I,

You know,

Self-love is just such a weird,

It feels like such a dumb thing to even think about.

But I was like,

I don't even really know what that means if I'm being honest.

And so more I've gone through this process,

That part makes sense to me and loving other people.

I just feel like there's just like this kind of,

Sorry,

There's somebody like yelling in the back.

I just feel like that,

That part has,

That is the thing that has really changed for me.

Just opening up myself in a way that I just didn't expect.

I certainly never expected it from this class.

It was something I kind of wanted to do.

The fact that it was a by-product was,

Was unexpected.

It's funny how things happen like that.

We do one thing thinking we're going to get a different outcome and we really get the outcome we really wanted that we thought we needed to do this other thing for.

Yeah.

I thought I was just taking a writing class,

You know,

And I,

I laugh so hard when I watch the people who go through first level and they have to do that massage to transformation line.

And I will never forget the first time I had to do that exercise.

I wrote my little piece and I was like,

Oh,

This is funny.

This is cute.

And he was like,

Cool.

Like,

Where'd you massage a transformation line?

I'm like,

Well,

I just didn't do that part.

He's like,

Cool.

Great.

You're going to do it right now.

And I was like,

Well,

I'd rather not.

Thanks.

Thanks so much.

I was holding myself back so much,

But I was holding myself back in every part of my life.

Once he forced me to do that,

It was hideous,

But also fine.

You know?

And then it kind of like,

I just kept doing those things and suddenly I was like,

Oh,

Okay,

This now I'm just in a different place.

It was,

It was incremental to,

In a way that,

You know,

Made it so it wasn't as jarring.

So just for people who might not know what a transformation line is,

It answers to very important.

I won't ask you what they are,

Unless you want to offer a story of my life and the truth of who I am.

Right.

And when you ask those questions to a personal statement,

I'm tired or I'm angry or I'm sad,

Or I'm a procrastinator.

You come to a deeper truth about yourself,

Whether it's true now in the moment or then it still can be gut-wrenching and hard to look at.

And that was my hardest exercise.

I think for a lot of people,

It's hard to go that deep and put it on the page.

Writing's easy.

Just slice yourself open and bleed on the page.

That does it.

But that's why you love the writing you hear because that's the compelling voice.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And people,

You know,

Just seeing the bravery of people putting themselves out there,

It just makes them so endearing.

Also so relatable.

It's like,

We're all going through this,

You know,

It's not,

The spectrum is pretty short,

Really,

Of all of the experiences that people are having.

You know,

It's,

It's,

It's just nice to know.

It's,

It's good to hear people share these things and just know that you're not alone dealing with a lot of these things that feel so big.

Yeah.

When we talk about courage,

I love this definition of courage,

The capacity to give.

And that's why I say that.

Yeah,

That is so true.

It's so true.

Again,

Thinking of the piece you're going to read,

You know,

It's kind of that idea of what we hold back,

What we're afraid to look at in ourselves.

And then when you hear other people or you read another book where the author goes just as deep or deeper,

And maybe you're crying as you read it,

You're also saying,

Oh,

Me too.

Me too.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean,

And that's the kind of beautiful thing,

Right?

That,

And that's what I mean.

It's like,

So many people are experiencing the same things.

It,

A lot of this stuff is so universal and to have permission to have feelings about it.

So you went,

You said you went to a good school.

What did you,

You don't have to tell me where you went.

Oh,

No,

I mean,

No,

I don't even know why I said,

I don't know why I said a good school.

Yeah.

I just went to Harvard.

No,

No,

I wasn't even,

I was not even talking about college.

Actually,

I went to,

I just,

I went to a,

Like a prep school growing up.

And,

And I really feel like one of the things that was the strongest in my education was,

Was writing.

I mean,

I just was exposed to a lot of great books and was just expected to write,

You know,

Pretty dense essays from,

You know,

An early grade.

I mean,

There was,

I was a pretty good student.

I wasn't like an exceptional student anyways.

I mean,

11th grade was pretty gnarly with like old English,

You know,

Beowulf and all those.

In 11th grade,

They gave you Beowulf?

Beowulf and like the Canterbury Tales.

I could still like recite the whole Canterbury Tales.

Oh my gosh,

In 11th grade?

That's amazing.

Yeah.

Yeah,

They didn't do that.

We,

We had excerpts from Paradise Lost or excerpts.

I did have to carwash,

Which is trying to write like another writer,

Faulkner in 11th grade,

Which,

Who gives that assignment?

No one else I know really,

Other than Jack,

Gives that assignment,

Which is crazy.

That is crazy,

Actually.

That's pretty intense.

Yeah.

Well,

And then,

So what do you do for work?

I mean,

Obviously if it's affected all areas of your life,

Finding your voice and feeling that sort of,

It's empowering.

It is definitely empowering.

I mean,

I don't know that it's affected my,

I do two things.

I run this event space and that's just something I kind of do for a steady paycheck.

And I wouldn't say that I find a lot of meaning in that.

I work with people and I don't know,

I don't know that this class has particularly changed that dynamic.

I also,

I'm an interior decorator and that's what I've really,

That's what I really love doing.

And I just,

When I got divorced,

I stopped or before,

Actually before I,

Like years ago,

I quit doing that because I took my kids out of school to travel with a creep.

And then I came back and then I moved to Bali with them for another year.

And so I just kind of like got out of the working world for a while and then COVID happened and then I got a divorce and then my whole life was like flipped upside down.

And so then I just got this job,

Kind of landed in my lap.

So I took it and then,

You know,

I,

I,

I've always been a creative person.

I'm kind of just doing this job that isn't particularly creative.

I mean,

I'm pretty organized too.

So like,

It was- Are you at work now?

I'm at work now.

There's a music studio in the place where I work.

Oh,

That's where you're in?

The event business.

Yeah,

Yeah.

But,

But after the fires of this woman that I used to work with doing interiors,

She was like,

Listen,

We've got some,

We've got skills that can be really useful to people right now.

And we should get back into this.

And so she brought me back into it.

And I remember like the first meeting that we had with a client was a couple who had just bought this house.

They lost everything in the fire.

They had absolutely nothing,

You know,

So we were in this new space and we need to buy every single thing,

Every dish,

Every trash can,

Every everything.

And I just,

I left that meeting and I was like,

Oh my God,

I forgot how much I love this.

Like I forgot how much I just love being creative,

Working with people.

And I was like,

Okay,

Now I just,

I was like,

Okay,

I feel like I'm kind of back to myself again after this tumultuous few years and also great years.

I mean,

That years that I traveled,

My kids was an amazing experience,

But you know,

I kind of lost my path there for a minute.

And so,

Yeah.

So it's cool to have like two kind of different avenues of creativity at the moment.

It feels really exciting.

These tools,

You know,

Going to Ralph's and buy a chicken,

Just starting with the blank page and not knowing what story is going to come out so that the true story can come out of you and surprise you.

Take these tools,

You look at your client space and you,

I would imagine sort of do the same thing.

I mean,

Obviously with their preferences in mind,

Not just too randomly.

Yeah,

No,

It's,

It's a hundred percent true.

And it feels very similar,

Actually.

Like there are moments where you're like,

I've got a great vision for this.

And,

And this is,

You know,

This is what I'm thinking and I'm going to,

You know,

This is what I'm going to pull in these references.

And,

And it just all kind of comes together pretty quickly.

And there are definitely projects where it's like,

I'm not really sure how to,

Like,

I'm not sure how to look at this or I'm not,

Not exactly sure.

So I'm going to think about this for a minute and look at some reference and kind of just try to like get into like some kind of creative headspace about it.

And then it's almost like,

It is similar to writing because sometimes the writing just comes really quickly.

And sometimes you just sit there and you kind of think about things and you start to write something and you're like,

This isn't quite it,

You know?

And then,

And it almost feels like magic.

And I really do feel like that with my writing sometimes.

And I feel like that with the design sometimes too,

It just like comes through,

You know?

And sometimes it's like the 11th hour where you're like,

Wow,

Am I actually going to have anything to share in this class tomorrow?

Am I actually going to have this presentation pulled together?

I mean,

I had this presentation that I had to do for Monday and I had,

This was like this,

This week,

I had all weekend.

I was like,

Okay,

I have so much work to do.

I,

I have all weekend.

I'm just going to like chip away at this Friday.

I was like,

Oh,

I should probably go to that birthday party.

I should Saturday.

I mean,

All weekend,

I just pushed it off,

Pushed it off seven o'clock on Sunday night.

I was like,

Well,

What am I doing?

Like,

What have I created here?

And then it just came together.

All the inspiration that I kind of had been looking at and drawing upon,

It just came together in this beautiful presentation.

And,

And it's like that with the writing.

Sometimes it can be kind of,

It can just be like,

I'm sitting there and all of a sudden the whole story will just like plop down on the page.

And it's,

It feels like it's not even,

It just feels like,

I mean,

I hate,

I don't mean to sound like,

You know,

Crazy,

But it,

It just doesn't even feel like,

It just feels like I'm some kind of conduit for some message or something other worldly.

It just comes out on a,

On a page and it's just such a cool experience.

You know,

I don't know if that's the same as inspiration,

Which we know what we think about that.

I think that it does in a way,

If we open ourselves up,

If I come to the page with a story,

It's like anything in life.

If I have an expectation of what I want,

The real thing that I'm supposed to get or the bigger thing or the better thing,

Or the thing that serves me in the world better or whatever it is,

There's no room for it.

It's so,

It's,

It's really true.

Yeah.

I think that's the same thing.

Yeah.

And I love,

I mean,

I,

His,

His direction of going to Ralph's to get a chicken,

It's like,

It's so random,

But it,

It's so effective when you're just like,

I'm not sure.

And then you just start writing and then things,

You know,

They just kind of bubble up to the surface and kind of follow that thread.

It's pretty,

Pretty cool.

So when you sit down to write,

When you're just randomly writing,

If you're not reading Lucia Berlin,

Are you loving her by the way?

She's amazing.

She's amazing.

She's amazing.

Do you just sit down and do you focus on a different tool or you just go to Ralph's?

I think it takes a while for people to get in their own process of writing and creativity.

Yeah.

I mean,

I think I really loved having the structure of the different exercises.

That was such a helpful thing to really like hone some of those skills.

And now that I've gone through all those things and done some different kind of exercises along the way,

It's cool to be able to bring those things in.

It's,

It's,

It's,

And I don't really think about,

And sometimes I'm conscious of it and thinking about like how I can put that in.

I,

Not always.

It,

I think it just really,

Really depends from,

From one week to the next.

So what you brought to read,

Whether you call it memoir,

Autofiction,

Novel,

Whatever,

You know,

Mine's going to be a novel.

I'm going to have to change some names,

Obviously.

Like,

You know,

Even if it was seventh grade or high school.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So what is,

You know,

You could like tap into,

You tap into that time period so well.

God,

Like,

I'm like,

Oh my gosh.

Yeah.

I put myself back in high school prom era,

Just uncomfortable.

Such torture.

So you have a lot.

I don't want to say a lot of words.

I don't know if you have a word count or pages,

But you have a lot so far that you've been working on that will soon start to be your first book,

Right?

I hope so.

Yeah.

I just actually printed everything out just to start kind of looking at them and like seeing how it fits together to make something.

And it,

It's a pretty substantial stack.

I was surprised.

Like this?

Yeah.

It was like that.

Over an inch.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I was like,

Gosh,

I didn't really realize.

So um,

I'm really trying to figure out what shape that's going to take.

I mean,

I do,

It is a memoir because that's just a period of my life that is so profoundly shaped by Jack,

Actually.

But yeah,

That's,

That's kind of the plan,

You know,

The hope anyways,

To,

To put this into a book.

But I always tell people,

Once you've got it,

Print it and bind it or have it,

Try to read it like a reader would read it.

And then you'll see,

You'll start reading it and you'll say,

Huh,

There's more here.

There's more I want to tell here.

Oh,

I want to make a bridge from this incident to this incident or,

You know,

And then you'll,

You'll have something and then you'll,

Maybe you'll need to work on more.

Maybe you'll,

You'll need more words or less words or however many.

Yeah.

Because I mean,

The truth is the truth of the matter is I just do the exercises.

So every piece is about 500 words and,

And they're probably disconnected.

So,

You know,

There've been moments where I'm like,

Well,

You know,

People don't even read anymore.

So maybe little pieces is like a pretty smart way to go.

Like,

You know,

Giving people exercise things that,

That are more palatable for the non-reader,

But I don't really know.

I mean,

I think that that's kind of part of this kind of next phase of like,

What is this going to take?

And there's a through line obviously,

But how it all connects together,

Kind of the overarching message,

You know,

I just need to kind of get that a little tightened up.

Yeah.

It's nice.

One thing that I have loved over the years,

Learning more and more is anything goes.

I think it's Zinzi Clemens.

I remember when you were working on her or car washing her.

Yeah.

She,

But her whole book is Little Incidents.

There's also Maggie Smith who did,

You could make this place beautiful,

Which she's a poet,

I believe.

So her pieces were a little,

You know,

Formatted differently.

I mean,

Yeah,

There's so many different ways to go.

So I think that's kind of the next step,

Which is exciting just to see like what.

It's like you're designing your room.

All the,

All the little puzzle pieces to make it make sense.

Hopefully it makes some sense of this thing.

Ready to read it?

Yeah,

I think so.

I'm excited.

Gosh.

It's so funny.

Yeah.

It's a process.

It is.

This piece is called Gracias.

He sat across the table from me and said something about the journey being all about self-love.

He sounded like one of those pithy writers on Instagram,

Someone named Rainbow or something,

Someone who I'd love to hate,

Except I know they are right.

And I know he is right.

After all,

He is the guy that uttered the words that brought me to my knees so many months ago.

You are unlovable,

He'd said.

I can still remember where I was standing and what I was wearing when he said that.

Like how you remember exactly where you are when someone important dies.

I wanted to look up into his eyes,

But my head was too heavy to lift.

The words,

Once they left his mouth,

Prepared for battle,

Each little letter armed with pig axes and swinging flails.

They were wearing brass knuckles and shit kickers.

The tiny army ripped through my ears and shredded my brain.

If my eyes or mouth had been able to open the sidewalk would have been littered with blood and guts.

Instead,

I just stood very still and wished the sidewalk would swallow me whole.

Sticks and stones and all that,

But those words,

They really hurt me.

Now,

Maybe I should take a moment to let you know that those were not the exact words that he used,

But that is what I heard.

That is what I'd come to believe.

I dragged myself home and wondered about all the ways I could have made him really see me.

But I was a feather then.

The slightest breeze could have blown me straight to Mexico.

I floated around for a while feeling sorry for myself until I got bored with that story.

So I booked myself an operating room and took myself apart,

Bone by bone.

I laid all of my organs on a metal table and watched the blood drip and pool at my boneless feet.

I held up my spleen and turned it this way and that.

It seemed fine.

Perfectly lovable,

Really.

Same with my kidneys and colon.

There was nothing alarming about my ribs or elbows either,

So I sat to them all back inside my skin and left my heart for last.

It sat alone,

Pristine,

Unscarred and untouched in a pretty little cinder block cell that I'd made for it many,

Many years ago.

It was perhaps a size or two too small on account of the childish construction.

I knew that to really love and to be loved,

I had to let my heart be seen.

I took a sledgehammer to that cement and then stuffed my heart back inside my skin.

Before sewing myself back up,

I cleaved that thing right open.

They say cells regenerate every seven years,

But when you slice yourself to pieces,

The changes happen a lot faster.

Suddenly,

There were butterflies everywhere.

The sound of hummingbird wings was deafening and there was magic in every sunrise.

My mismatched eyes caught his over our coffee cups and I felt such gratitude for this man who taught me how to really love myself.

His methods were a little unorthodox,

But I've never been one to find normal all that interesting.

That's just phenomenal.

It's so brilliant.

She's a feather.

She gets bored with her story and she books an operating room.

It's so real.

They say seven years,

But when you slice yourself open,

It happens sooner and unorthodox ways.

It's kind of like,

I mean,

No one teaches method writing except the few of us,

Right?

But it is life-changing and it's funny that this is what your piece is about and this is sort of what we've been talking about unplanned.

I know,

It kind of dovetailed perfectly.

I mean,

It is so true.

It's like all these stories that we carry around with us and just weigh us down and make us feel unlovable or whatever.

And then you start doing this work and you're like,

Hold on,

Why am I believing this?

This is just a story.

And then you dig a little deeper and you're like,

Okay,

Well let's,

I think we're done with that story actually.

That served its purpose and now it's time to move on.

And I think the method writing has just been that,

Pulling myself apart and bone by bone and like looking at all these things that I felt such shame about or felt,

You know,

Wasn't good enough or blah,

Blah,

Like all the things,

You know,

It's just like,

This is so dumb.

Why am I am almost 50 years old,

I'm carrying these things around that have no basis in my life anymore.

And why do I want,

Why do I,

I don't want to live like this anymore.

After you read a piece like that the first time,

Do you feel like you can,

Like something shifts a little bit?

Oh wow,

I wrote that.

I,

Yeah,

The reading has been an interesting trajectory for sure.

I mean,

The first session for sure,

Probably the first couple of sessions,

I would read my pieces and pretty much black out.

Like I would literally get to the end and be like,

I'm not even sure if I did that or not.

I don't know if I said the words out loud.

It was so crippling of such,

I'm like such a shy person that that was horrific for me to have to do.

And,

And that's why I was reading it so fast and whatever,

You know,

Just like some kind of coping mechanism to get through the thing.

But that's kind of been an interesting,

Cool thing to watch too,

You know,

Just like,

Okay,

Now I'm,

I'm going to read this thing and I'm going to,

You know,

Be present for the actual words.

And I'm nervous a lot of times under the Zoom screen,

My hands are like,

You know,

Twisting and turning and like,

You know,

Like sweating,

But,

But there are times when I feel more nervous than others.

Sometimes I,

And I practice,

I mean,

I'm not going to lie.

I definitely practice reading it a lot just to kind of get the rhythm.

So I'm not stuttering as much as possible.

It's good to read your work out loud.

Anyway,

I mean,

Yeah,

It changes.

It changes,

You know,

There's certain like tweaks that I make to the words.

It just,

Depending on how it sounds.

Well,

You're amazing.

Your writing's amazing.

This piece.

So glad you read it.

Oh,

Thank you.

The first time I heard it,

I could feel all my own emotion.

It's so powerful when we take these things,

These dark things,

These pains that we've lived with,

That we're carrying.

And when we put them onto the page and turn them into art,

They change other people's lives.

And I think the,

The,

The human voice spoken,

Written is so powerful.

People do not watch their words.

When we put these types of words out into the world,

I think we can change it.

Yeah.

And I kind of feel like that's what's needed right now.

Right.

I mean,

I feel like things have just gotten so dark and I just keep thinking the antidote to that is more art and more kindness and something positive,

Something more love.

Yeah.

Nice.

Ooh.

Well,

Did you script that for me?

I did not.