Healthy & Loving Boundaries: In Conversation With Fabienne

Hello and welcome to In Conversation with me,

Fabienne Sandoval,

Life coach,

Author and speaker.

I talk way too much so I thought I'd put that skill to use by sharing with you this series of conversations designed to expound your awareness and knowledge of becoming secure and empowered in your self-worth.

Meet Sam,

My OBM,

Wingwoman and literal can't live without.

We tried to break up once and it didn't work.

I'll be here to ask the juicy questions and help extract some of these powerful insights from Fabienne.

So let's begin.

So today we're going to be talking about setting healthy and loving boundaries.

So we know about boundaries that like keep working at work and your home life at home,

But how do we translate that into other aspects of life?

How do we set these healthy and loving boundaries?

Yeah.

So I feel like when clients come to me for coaching,

This is always something that comes up that people are just like,

I don't know how to say no.

I don't know how to like,

Essentially,

I think not always as a boundary saying no,

But a lot of the time it's like a variation of a no,

You know,

Like for example,

Like a one that comes up often is like,

Oh,

I've been invited to this thing and I don't want to do it.

And people usually go into this space where they're like,

I'll make an excuse.

I've got to work or,

Oh,

I can't do it that day.

Or they'll make something up.

And it's like,

What about if we just was real and said,

Like,

Thank you so much for that invite.

Sounds absolutely lovely.

Unfortunately,

I won't be able to make it.

I'd love to connect with you next week for a coffee.

Yeah.

You know,

Like we don't actually have to make up a whole thing and give an excuse and blah,

Blah,

Blah,

Blah.

You end up in a spiral then of like,

Not wanting to be seen just outside,

Just in case you've told them you're at work.

It's,

It becomes quite a toxic thing,

I think.

Yeah,

It just becomes like a,

It's just like strange.

Like it's like,

And as well,

Why do we need to like,

Make things up and like,

Potentially,

You know,

Say a little white lie about something.

It's really strange.

And I think from the perspective of like,

This idea of setting healthy and loving boundaries,

Right?

A lot of people,

When they come into boundary work,

And they start to recognize that they have a voice,

They can say no,

They can choose,

They can have a preference in terms of what they would like to do,

What feels good to them,

Essentially.

Because I feel like with our boundaries,

A lot of that is really like,

What feels good to me?

Yeah.

And it's not about people pleasing others,

Or just going ahead and doing what other people want to do.

Because that's the easier route,

Because ultimately,

Like that harms you in the long run by just like,

Oh,

I'll just do what everybody else wants.

Like,

No,

Like you deserve to have a preference,

You deserve to know you're worthy of saying like,

What feels good to you,

And like opting out of things if they don't feel good to you.

But I think the really interesting thing,

And the reason why we talk about,

For me,

Like I talk about healthy and loving boundaries,

Is because a lot of people,

When they start to do boundary work,

They suddenly start actually putting up massive walls.

So they're like,

Absolutely not,

You know,

It's kind of like,

Excuse my French,

But a bit of like a fuck off.

Oh,

Wow,

That's really strong.

And I'm talking from my own experience,

Because I did not know how to set boundaries.

And then what I would do is I'd be like,

Okay,

I'm gonna do it.

I'm gonna say no,

But it really would just come off as a massive wall.

Yeah,

Being loving and healthy.

And,

And like,

You know,

Essentially,

The main thing to keep in mind when we're setting the boundaries,

Normally,

We do want to keep in relationship with that person.

Like,

Well,

Yeah.

If we do want that person to still be in our life in some way,

We kind of don't want to just be like,

Put up a massive wall,

Because that's not keeping us in connection with that person.

So it's kind of like doing two things well,

Staying in connection with that person,

And also keeping ourselves safe.

Yeah,

Keep these two things in mind when we're setting boundaries,

How do I stay in connection?

And how do I stay safe?

And then doing them both together?

Because sometimes what people do when they start setting boundaries is they just focus on keeping safe.

And then the connection ends up getting like,

Messed with a little bit.

And then that creates like other issues that we could even get severed,

It can even that wall could just completely sever that relationship because it's so abrupt.

But how,

How do you kind of go into identifying where you want these boundaries to be?

Yeah,

So I mean,

They can come in so many shapes and forms.

But the way that I would describe it is like,

What feels good to me,

If we're setting boundaries,

You want to get really good at understanding what feels good to me.

For example,

I put down like,

I'll share like small like things,

For example,

A friend asked you,

Hey,

Do you want to meet next week?

You're like,

Yeah,

That sounds great.

And you suggest like,

Meeting,

I don't know,

In this place,

This restaurant in this.

Yeah.

And then they respond and say,

Oh,

Sorry,

I'm,

I'm working and I need to meet in that place.

But maybe you don't like that place.

In the past,

Maybe you just would be like,

Yeah,

Sure,

I'll meet you there.

Actually,

What about responding with like,

An alternative solution that could be good for both of you,

Right?

Like keeping both people's like,

Needs in mind,

Right?

Yeah.

So,

You know,

Even like that,

Maybe people don't think of that as a boundary,

But it is like,

It's like still continuing to like,

Uphold your preferences,

Whilst also like compromising and,

You know,

Maintaining the relationship with someone else.

It might look like what I said,

You know,

Having a lot of the things that come up so frequently in coaching,

It's just like people being invited to stuff,

And they're like,

I don't want to go.

And it's like,

Yeah,

Just not go there.

People are always shocked when they're like,

We don't have to go.

And they do that.

It's almost like giving yourself permission to look after yourself and to do what feels good for you.

It's an abrupt turn,

I think sometimes for some people to suddenly go,

I can be grown up,

I can make that decision.

I thought I had to people please,

It's a revelation.

Absolutely,

Absolutely.

And even just things like being included in group,

Like group chats,

You know,

Some people don't want to be included in group chats.

Some people don't enjoy that experience.

And it's like,

Just saying,

Hey,

Guys,

I'm gonna exit the chat.

Like,

It's totally okay to exit a group chat.

If you don't love group chats,

If your phone is like wildly overwhelming,

You know,

We get so many things in on our phone.

Yeah,

Considering that.

And so there was a question or a thought that you would come to,

Which I haven't really like kind of covered a bit.

It's like,

Where do we set boundaries?

Well,

They can obviously be in our relationships,

We might set boundaries at work,

We might set boundaries around technology,

Like how much time we're spending on our technology,

What we're using it for.

We might set boundaries around health,

You know,

What kinds of foods we eat,

What kinds of foods we don't eat,

What ways we,

You know,

Take care of ourselves.

So there's a lot of different spaces for us to boundaries,

Physical boundaries,

Intellectual boundaries,

There's all different ways in which we might set boundaries in areas.

And then essentially,

I would really just start by taking it like day by day of like,

What is coming up?

What feels good to me?

You know,

If someone touches you,

And you're like,

I don't really know this person that feels uncomfortable.

One of my favorite phrases is like,

That feels uncomfortable to me.

Mm hmm.

Like,

You know,

We can just say that feels uncomfortable.

Yeah,

Yeah.

And it's such a simple term,

But loads of people are like,

Oh my god,

I had never considered the idea that I could say that.

And it's like,

Something's making you uncomfortable.

You're allowed to say it makes me uncomfortable.

Please don't do that.

So with kind of the,

Is there,

So you've spoken about in previous conversations about journaling as a good way.

Is that a good way to help you kind of identify your boundaries to say,

You know,

This makes me comfortable,

This makes me uncomfortable and be able to help bring it in on a day to day basis?

Yeah,

I definitely would say like,

You said,

You know,

Like,

Just like thinking about things that make me feel comfortable,

Things that make me feel uncomfortable,

That might be like a space where there's some boundary work coming up.

One of my favorite resources and like the best teacher that I know for boundary work is Nedra Tawab.

I don't know if that's the right name,

Right?

But she has a really amazing book and workbook that kind of just takes you through it.

And she's just the queen of boundaries in,

In my opinion.

Yeah.

I always recommend like any of my clients that we're doing boundary work together,

I always recommend those books,

That book and that workbook as a resource because it's so in depth,

Like it is,

The workbook is essentially like journaling and you've got a lot of questions and prompts.

And I just massively recommend that.

Like it's,

It's so powerful and so,

So,

So important.

So do you bring that in to your work with your clients,

The work that she does?

How do you talk to your clients about boundaries?

What do you use?

Yeah.

So I guess I definitely use those resources.

So that would be like their self study outside of coaching because of course,

When you're coaching,

There's only so much time that we're getting together one on one.

So not the moment for them to,

You know,

They want to continue to deepen their boundary work or whatever personal growth it is that we're working on.

You want to continue that outside of the session and not just be doing it just inside of the session,

Because that's a one hour,

You know,

Time slot.

That's not enough time to change and grow.

It needs to be an ongoing process,

Right?

Like where we're really doing the work all of the days of the week,

Just not that moment when you're having a coaching session.

So I recommend that as a tool,

Like that would be what any client that comes to me and we're doing boundary work,

That's always going to be my first point of call to just be like,

Go into that because she just goes into it in such great depth that for me,

Like,

I don't need to rewrite her.

She's like,

I said,

The queen of it.

So that's where I would start.

And then of course,

I do believe that like the book,

The books and the workbook alone is not enough to obviously get you there.

You do need the support.

So I was on a coaching plan yesterday and they were literally like,

What would Fabienne do?

Like,

What would Fabienne do?

And you know,

That is one of the beauties of being in coaching and having coaching support around boundaries.

Like I say,

This comes up quite a lot.

It is one of the more common things that people understanding how to set boundaries,

How to do that in a healthy way,

How to do that in a secure way,

How to do that in a loving way.

And also having the communication and the words,

Because a lot of people like,

Well,

Yeah,

I'd love to say no,

But I have no idea how.

And being able to have,

You know,

A professional with you for that journey of learning and implementing them and really like the practicing of,

Okay,

Well,

What would you say,

Or what could you say?

And then a person would say,

Well,

I'd say it like this.

And then it's like,

Okay,

Well,

Let's look at different communication tools that we can utilize to put together,

To create something that,

You know,

Maybe it sounds more loving,

You know,

That we can find when we're setting boundaries.

So there's different tools that we would bring in,

You know,

That I would teach and train when we're in that one-on-one coaching session.

And obviously we get to work with real life examples as well of like,

You know,

Maybe where there is a back and forth from someone where it's like,

You know,

The boundary doesn't stick the first time and we have to reiterate.

So going through all those processes together with support is really,

Really helpful.

And it's always an ongoing process,

Isn't it?

It's not something like,

It's not a quick fix,

Right?

I've known my boundaries,

That's it,

Move on.

It's constantly evolving and moving with you,

Isn't it?

Absolutely.

Because like what you might be comfortable with today,

You might not be comfortable with in a year's time.

That might change for us,

Like things that used to be really important to me,

Maybe are less important to me now because I've changed,

My life has changed,

My capacity has changed.

So yeah,

Our boundaries do and can change.

And,

You know,

There's that flexibility in terms of that.

And essentially really what it comes down to is understanding how we can set them in a way that is obviously clear and concise to the other person,

But also in a way that,

You know,

Speaks to what it is that we need.

And it's got to be clear and concise for yourself as well,

Because if you're not sure of your boundary,

If you're not sure yourself,

Then it's going to confuse other people as well,

Isn't it?

And that's going to have a knock-on effect.

Absolutely.

So that is also something,

A challenge that we come up with in coaching,

Where people are like,

I've set this boundary and it didn't work.

And I'm like,

Okay,

Talk me through it.

And I'm like,

Okay,

I don't know what the boundary is.

And they're like,

Yeah,

I'm like,

I'm not hearing a boundary here.

Like there's words,

There's definitely words,

But there's no boundary being set.

What did you hear?

And then we talk about it and I'm like,

Oh,

Okay,

You need to say that.

Yeah.

Oh my God,

I'm allowed to say it,

You know,

And again,

It comes back to that permission.

I'm allowed to do that.

So again,

That's why I feel like for me,

I had support moving through,

You know,

Yes,

There was a lot of like reading and resources and courses and training and blah,

Blah,

Blah,

Blah that I did when it comes to boundaries.

But having someone that was on my team,

That was in my kind of,

You know,

Advocating for me that I could vote when I could say,

This is the situation and I really want to do it,

You know,

In the best way possible.

And we could then talk about it.

It just allows you to come up with something that is yeah,

Clear.

Right.

So the other person is that you're saying.

And then I think on the other side of that,

Because there's also the fear that people don't want to set their boundaries because they're like,

What if the other person doesn't love me anymore?

What if they say this?

And the thing I want to bring in and remind people of is it's not our responsibility to manage another person's emotional response to our boundary.

They will have one potentially,

You know,

And whether it's good or bad,

They will have a reaction to that boundary.

Yeah.

And that's OK.

Right.

We don't need to like deny the person of their emotional experience.

They're allowed their emotional experience about it,

You know.

But that shouldn't stop us from saying what we mean,

Because as I kind of say,

Like,

I would rather I would rather kind of like set that loving boundary now than resent the situation for months on end.

I'd rather give someone my boundary than give them my resentment.

Nobody wants someone's resentment because you can feel that it feels yucky and icky and gross.

And it's not healthy for yourself either.

It's not good for your self-esteem,

Your well-being.

If you're not putting yourself in a comfortable position,

If you are,

Like you say,

Resenting the decision that you've made to make somebody else happy.

One hundred percent.

So it's like it's not good for either person in the relationship when we do that.

And sometimes when we people please and like we want to put other people's needs before our own,

We do that thinking we're being like the bigger person,

The higher person.

But you're only being the bigger person or the higher person if you can genuinely do that and like and not have resentment and feel good about what you're doing.

Then,

Of course,

Yeah,

By all means,

Go for it.

But if you're going to do it and then be resentful,

That's just like I say,

It's just it's just yucky and both people will feel it and it won't benefit the relationship in the long run.

So better to say no upfront than to let them live with your resentment.

And it's not healthy or loving.

That's what we want.

Healthy and loving,

Not resentment.

We like the good stuff.

That's brilliant.

Thank you again,

Fabienne.

So you've mentioned about the queen,

Whose name I've forgotten already,

I do apologize,

Of Book and Resources and also obviously working with yourself.

And are there any courses on Insight Timer that you have with regards to setting healthy and loving boundaries?

So the queen of setting boundaries is Nedra Tawwab.

Hopefully it is.

And she has two,

A book and a workbook on that.

And in terms of working with me,

Of course,

People can click the link in my bio and they're going to get access to be able to book a 30 minute free consultation with me.

In terms of courses,

I don't know on this topic on Insight Timer,

But it has been definitely highly requested.

So it's in the works.

It's on my 2024 plan.

It will be coming soon in terms of like how we do this well.

That's brilliant.

Thank you so much again,

Fabienne.

Thank you.