Little Women Podcast: Food In Little Women Part 2

Now in the first flush of the new life,

She had often said,

My husband shall always feel free to bring a friend home,

Whenever he likes.

I shall always be prepared.

There shall be no flurry,

No scolding,

No discomfort,

But a neat house,

A cheerful wife,

And a good dinner.

John,

Dear,

Never stop ask my leave,

Invite whom you please,

And be sure of a welcome from me.

How charming that was,

To be sure.

John quite glowed with pride to hear her say it,

And felt what a blessing it was to have a superior wife.

But although they had had company from time to time,

It never happened to be unexpected,

And Meg never had an opportunity to distinguish herself till now.

It always happens so in this well of tears.

There's an inevitability about such things,

Which we can only wonder at,

Deplore,

And bear as we best can.

If John had not forgotten all about the jelly,

It really would have been unpardonable in him to choose that day,

Of all the days in the year,

To bring a friend home to dinner unexpectedly,

Congratulating himself that a handsome repast had been ordered that morning,

Feeling sure that it would be ready to the minute,

And indulging in pleasant anticipations of the charming effect it would produce when his pretty wife came running out to meet him.

He escorted his friend to his mansion,

With the irrepressible satisfaction of a young host and husband.

It is a world of disappointments,

As John discovered,

When he reached the doorkot.

The front door usually stood hospitably open.

Night was not only shut,

But locked,

And yesterday's mud still adorned the steps.

The parlor windows were closed,

And curtained,

No picture of the pretty wife sewing on the piazza,

In white,

With a distracting little bow in her hair,

Or a bright-eyed hostess smiling a shy welcome as she greeted her guest.

Nothing of the sort for another soul appeared,

But a sanguinary look in boy asleep under the current bushes.

I am afraid something has happened,

Stepped into the garden,

Scott.

While I look up,

Mrs.

Brooke,

Said John,

Alarmed,

At the silence and solitude.

Round the house he hurried,

Led by a pungent smell of burnt sugar,

And Mr.

Scott strode after him.

With a queer look on his face,

He paused discreetly at a distance.

When Brooke disappeared,

But he would both see and hear,

And being a bachelor,

Enjoyed the prospect mightily.

Mixing two lives together.

Right?

I love her writing here,

Too,

Where she says,

You know,

It all,

Like,

You know,

And I think because of the sort of old-fashionedness of the writing,

People don't always realize,

Like,

When she's trying to be funny,

You know,

But this whole part where she says,

It always happens this way,

In this veil of tears,

There's an inevitability about such things which we only wonder at,

Deplore,

And bear as best we can.

It's like,

This is the thing,

It always happens this way,

The one day when you shouldn't bring someone home,

This is the day that it happens.

Also,

How she talked about the sanguinary-looking boy asleep under the currant bushes.

The sanguinary is,

Like,

Bloody,

Right?

So,

Because he's been helping with the currants,

He's got currant juice all over him,

Is my,

Is what I'm imagining.

That makes sense.

Yeah.

This scene of,

Like,

Possible murder,

Like,

What had happened,

You know?

Oh,

Dear.

Yeah,

And the friend who was,

Like,

Oh,

Glad to be a bachelor,

Right?

Yeah.

Got a bit of schadenfreude here,

He's like,

Oh,

What's going on?

But yeah,

This is a really,

Really funny chapter.

Yeah.

But also,

So,

It's just,

Like,

You feel it so deeply as well,

Because,

Like,

Everyone has had some kind of situation like this happen,

Where it's just,

Like,

This was not the moment that I wanted my mother-in-law to show up,

Or,

You know,

Whatever thing.

In the kitchen reigned confusion and despair.

One addition of jelly was trickled from pot to pot,

Another lay upon the floor,

And a third was burning gaily on the stoves.

Lottie,

With Teutonic phlegm,

Was calmly eating bread and currant wine,

For the jelly was still in a hopelessly liquid state,

While Mrs.

Brooke,

With her apron over her head,

Sat sobbing dismally.

My dearest girl,

What is the matter?

Cried John,

Rushing in with awful visions of scalded hands,

Sudden news of affliction,

And secret consternation at the thought of the guests in the garden.

Oh,

John,

I am so tired and hot and cross and worried.

I've been at it till I'm all worn out.

Do come and help me,

Or I shall die.

When the exhausted housewife cast herself upon his breast,

Giving him a sweet welcome in every sense of the word,

For her pinafore had been baptized at the same time as the floor.

What worries you,

Dear?

Has anything dreadful happened?

Asked the anxious John,

Tenderly kissing the crown of the little cap,

Which was all askew.

Yes,

Sobbed Meg despairingly.

Tell me quick,

Then.

Don't cry.

I can bear anything better than that.

Out with it,

Love.

The jelly won't gel,

And I don't know what to do.

John Brooke laughed then,

As he never dared to laugh afterward,

And the derisive Scott smiled involuntarily as he heard the hearty peal,

Which put the finishing stroke to poor Meg's woe.

Zell!

Fling it out of the window,

And don't bother any more about it.

I'll buy you quartz if you want it.

But for heaven's sake,

Don't have hysterics,

For I brought Jack Scott home to dinner,

And— John got no further,

For Meg cast him off and clasped her hands.

With a tragic gesture,

She fell into a chair,

Exclaiming in a tone of mingled indignation,

Reproach,

And dismay,

A man to dinner,

And everything in a mess!

John Brooke,

How could you do such a thing?

Hush,

She's in the garden.

I forgot the confounded jelly,

But it can't be helped now,

Said John,

Surveying the prospect with an anxious eye.

You ought to have remembered how busy I was,

Continued Meg petulantly,

For even turtle-dubs will peck when ruffled.

I didn't know it this morning,

And there was no time to send word,

For I met him on the way out.

I never thought of asking leave when you have always told me to do as I liked.

I never tried it before,

And will hang me if I ever do again,

Added John with an aggrieved air.

I should hope not.

Take him away at once.

I can't see him,

And there isn't any dinner.

Well,

I like that.

Where's the beef and vegetables I sent home,

And the pudding you promised?

Cried John,

Rushing to the larder.

I didn't have time to cook anything.

I meant to dine at Mother's.

I'm sorry,

But I was so busy.

And Meg's tears began again.

Oh my!

I love this part where she says she gave him a sweet welcome in every sense of the word,

Because her apron is all covered in jelly,

So she's embracing him with sweetness.

Just like this whole scene is so great,

You know?

Just the visions of jelly trickled everywhere,

And burning gaily on the stove.

She's got the apron over her head.

I don't think they ever add up to this chapter.

There's a jelly-making scene in the 2017 series,

But I don't think they really go into the chapter.

Like,

It's just a scene of Meg making jelly.

It doesn't really do the whole plot,

Which is kind of sad.

Yeah,

It is.

But,

Yeah.

It is kind of such a big relationship moment for them.

Yeah,

But I think they don't really do that with Meg and John.

Honestly,

They focus on Jo and Laurie,

Which is why I don't really like adaptations always that much.

Yeah.

But,

Yeah.

We have lots of storylines for Meg,

For anyone who is listening to this and wants to make little woman films in the future.

Yeah,

You go through the same things that everybody goes through in this kind of a new relationship situation,

You know?

Yeah,

And I think it's important that they both really grow up in that relationship.

Yeah.

Like,

There is a genuine growth in both parties.

That actually happens in really all of Lewis and Malcolm's novels,

When there is a couple together,

They do grow in the relationship,

Which I think is a very neglected part of her writing and research.

Yeah,

It's true.

All good circles,

But I examine things.

Yeah,

I haven't gone into too much of their research,

So that's interesting that that hasn't really been explored very much.

Because,

Yeah,

I think the book is,

In a lot of ways,

It's just about relationships and about learning how to balance what you want for yourself as a person with how you live with other people.

Yeah,

You know,

It sounds sort of old-fashioned and I was talking about being unselfish and,

You know,

The sort of moral things,

But a lot of it is just really good and useful advice for how to,

You know,

How to have relationships with other people.

Yeah,

There are a lot more nuances.

It's not so black and white,

Like,

Oh,

You need to be,

Like,

Moral and behave better than other people.

It's not really like that.

It's about finding balance between yourself and other people.

Exactly.

You're not supposed to just give up everything of yourself for other people.

It's,

Yeah,

Like you say,

It's that balance of being a fully realized person yourself and in order to live well with others.

You know,

You can't do one thing without the other.

Yeah,

There was something that I recently wrote an article about and I noticed you had,

Like,

A Laurie vs.

Freddie chapter in your book as well.

Gets my approval,

But like,

Yeah,

I was writing about the way when Laurie proposes Joe,

He basically tells Joe to change for him so he can continue being the same.

Right,

Right.

And when Laurie proposes to Amy,

He doesn't expect Amy to change as a person or be anything else than she is.

So already we get into a healthier relationship because Laurie realizes that,

No,

Amy is the way she is.

He doesn't want to change Amy,

But why he wants to change Joe when he wants to marry Joe,

It's unhealthy.

Yeah.

And then we,

Of course,

Have Freddie with,

You know,

I have empty hands,

Nothing else to give you.

He doesn't want Joe to change and Joe doesn't want to change him.

I think that's,

Like,

The thing that people miss because when you are in a relationship,

You should not expect to change the other person because they only change if they want to.

Right,

Exactly.

And the other side of it is that you,

And being in the relationship,

You want to change yourself.

You want to be better for that person.

Not like you shouldn't want to destroy yourself,

Right?

But you see the other person and how you admire them and how you want to bring yourself to their level in a way,

You know?

And so it has to be that exchange,

But it has to come from inside yourself as opposed to you making the other person change.

You know,

You should be that example of being yourself.

In the end,

The other person,

They fall in love with you because of the way you are.

Yeah.

I reread Little Women,

You know,

That recently before we had started writing the book.

And so,

You know,

As part of that,

I went through and reread it.

And,

You know,

As an adult,

I could see much better why Friedrich is so much a better partner for Joe.

Even though,

You know,

I think to some extent Louisa was kind of,

You know,

She even says,

You know,

I'm going to just,

To disappoint everybody who wants Joe and Laurie to get together,

I'm going to put this guy and no one's going to like him.

I think she kind of totally helped giving Joe someone who would actually suit her.

I have a theory that Louisa May Algaplan chose in Friedrich's marriage already when she was a young girl.

Interesting.

I've been reading lots of books from Goethe.

There is this story,

Sorrows of Young Werther,

Goethe's most famous book.

Yeah.

And Werther is like Laurie.

And he falls in love with a girl called Lottie.

And it's an obsession that he has for Lottie.

Lottie is engaged with Albert.

Albert is written to be like Friedrich.

And eventually,

Werther kills himself.

But it's not because of Lottie.

It's because depression,

Anxiety.

You know,

He cannot really live with himself.

He only has this obsession for this girl.

I made a whole episode about it.

And like I said,

The dialogue between Lottie and Werther,

Very similar to Joe and Laurie when Laurie proposes her.

And it was a book that Louisa May Algaplan read as a young girl.

I found that from a lot of books that she read,

Like there's a book called White,

White World by Susan Warner.

It was written maybe 1830s or something.

It had been out when Louisa May Algaplan was a young girl.

And it's a story of a young woman who falls in love with her friend who is a teacher and a priest.

And there's like 15 year age gap.

Well,

They make it work in that book.

And Joe reads the book in the first part of Little Woman.

Who does Joe marry?

Joe marries a teacher who's 15 years older than she is.

And also I read from Louisa's diaries from the time when she was a young woman that she wanted to start a school for boys and have Henry David Thoreau there as a teacher.

And what else?

I've also read from her diaries.

These are from the time when she was in her 50s.

She wrote about how she wanted to reunite with her love in the afterlife and have marriage,

Family,

Children.

And then it was like,

She deserves them because she's been living such a lonely and hard life here on earth.

It's quite sad,

Really.

If you think about Little Woman more as a wish fulfillment,

It makes a lot more sense with that context of those diary markings and stuff.

Because Henry David Thoreau,

I think he appears in all of her books as the love interest.

And Henry passed away when Louisa was 27,

I think,

Or something like that.

Oh,

That's great.

Then Lauri is based on her ex-lady with Nieski and partially,

Not fully,

Still.

Yeah.

There's one more book,

The Hair of Redcliffe.

Jo reads that also in Little Woman.

It's a story about a man who falls in love with a girl called Amy.

Yeah,

Wow.

I really should look into some of these.

That's fascinating.

It's so interesting.

I am very curious now.

Yes,

I found this article some years ago.

It was called Jo and Mary's Goethe.

Just like,

Really how Friedrich's character is also based on Goethe and how we can trace Goethe's stories in Little Woman.

It's really interesting.

I can send you some of these articles if you want.

Yeah,

Please do.

Have a bunch of them.

That would be great.

Yeah,

I have a bunch of really Laurie-related origin stories.

They're really fascinating.

It's like,

The more I read those stuff,

It's more like,

Yeah,

She planned all these marriages.

It wasn't just like,

Oh,

I'm just going to marry Jo to this guy.

No,

We can trace that to all these books that she read and possibly life experiences.

It's fascinating.

Well,

You have your cooking.

I have my Friedrich and Laurie research.

We all have a special interest.

Yeah,

You have to write a book someday.

Oh,

I'm planning to turn this podcast into a book.

I'm working on it.

Cool.

Yeah,

Exciting.

John was a mild man,

But he was human.

And after a long day's work to come home tired,

Hungry and hopeful to find a chaotic house,

An empty table,

And a crosswise was not exactly conducive to repose of mind or manner.

He restrained himself,

However,

And the little squall would have blown over,

But for one unlucky word.

It's a scrape,

I acknowledge,

But if you will lend a hand,

We'll pull through and have a good time yet.

Don't cry,

Dear,

But just exert yourself a bit and knock us up something to eat.

We're both as hungry as hunters,

So we shan't mind what it is.

Give us the cold meat and bread and cheese.

We won't ask for jelly.

He's like touching the beehive here.

Yeah,

Right.

He meant it for a good natured joke,

But that one word sealed his fate.

Meg thought it was too cruel to hint about her sad failure.

At the last atom of patience vanished as she spoke.

You must get yourself out of the scrape as you can.

I am too used up to exert myself for anyone.

It's like a man to propose a bone and vulgar bread and cheese for company.

I won't have anything of the sort in my house.

Take that scot up to Mothers and tell him I'm away,

Sick,

Dead,

Anything.

I won't see him.

And you two can laugh at me and my jelly as much as you like.

You won't have anything else here.

And having delivered her defiance all in one breath,

Meg cast away her pinafore.

And precipitously left the field to be among herself in her own room.

What those two creatures did in her absence,

She never knew,

But Mr.

Scot was not taken up to Mothers.

And when Meg descended after they had strolled away together,

She found traces of promiscuous lunch,

Which filled her with horror.

Horror?

Lottie reported that they had eaten a much and greatly laughed,

And the master bid her throw away all the sweet stuff and hide the pots.

Meg longed to go and tell Mother,

But a sense of shame at her own shortcomings,

Of loyalty to John,

Who might be cruel but nobody should know it,

Restrained her,

And after a summary,

Clearing up,

She dressed herself prettily and sat down to wait for John to come and be forgiven.

And I don't think we are really used to seeing Meg angry.

Like,

We can think about Joe getting angry or Amy,

But not really Meg or Beth.

They are the more calm sisters.

This occasion,

Then we see,

Like,

Meg lashing out.

Yeah,

Because she,

You know,

She feels guilty and her feelings are hurt.

And then,

You know,

I definitely feel the same.

If I feel like somebody is laughing at me,

That's the thing.

I can't,

I can't stand it.

Poor Meg.

Right,

So you are.

.

.

Unfortunately,

John didn't come,

Not seeing the matter in that light.

He had carried it off as a good joke with Scott,

Excused his little wife as well as he could,

And played the host so hospitably that his friend enjoyed the impromptu dinner and promised to come again.

But John was angry,

Though he did not show it.

He felt that Meg had got him into a scrape and then deserted him in his hour of need.

Wasn't fair to tell a man to bring folks home anytime with perfect freedom and then when he took you at his word,

At your word,

To flare up and blame him and leave him in the lurch to be laughed at or pitied.

No,

By George,

It wasn't.

Meg must know it.

He had fumed inwardly during the feast,

But when the flurry was over,

He strolled home after seeing Scott off,

A milder moon came over him.

Poor little thing.

It was hard upon her when she tried so heartily to please me.

She was wrong,

Of course,

But then she was young.

I must be patient and teach her.

He hoped she had not gone home.

He hated gossip and interference.

For a minute he was ruffled again at the mere thought of it,

And then the fear that Meg would cry herself sick softened his heart and sent him on a quicker pace,

Resolving to be calm and kind,

But firm,

Quite firm,

And to show her where she had failed in her duty to her spouse.

Oh dear.

That's interesting how he's fuming inwardly.

This may be the worst type of anger that person can have.

We sort of think of John as this mild,

Calm person,

But when he gets angry,

He doesn't really show it.

He doesn't slash out like some other characters,

Like Laurie,

For example.

Yeah,

And it is a difficult kind of anger to deal with when somebody is like this.

And,

Of course,

His sort of thinking about,

Oh,

Well,

You know,

I need to teach her the correct way,

You know,

And be firm and calm,

You know?

And this is his,

You know,

Thinking of how,

You know,

How he's supposed to be a husband,

And,

You know,

Feels a little icky from this perspective.

But also,

I don't think that she's saying that this is actually the correct way to behave,

You know?

I think she's pointing out that there is a communication problem here.

He needs to grow up a little.

He thinks he's being very adult,

But he's really not.

Which happens to each one of us sometimes.

Yep,

Absolutely.

Meg likewise resolved to be calm and kind,

But firm and show him his duty.

She longed to run to meet him and beg pardon and be kissed and comforted.

But she was sure of being,

But of course,

She did nothing of the sort.

And when she saw John coming,

Began to hum quite naturally,

As she rocked and soothed like a lady of leisure in her best collar.

John was a little disappointed not to find a tender nearby,

But feeling that his dignity demanded the first apology,

He made none.

Only came leisurely in and laid himself upon the sofa with the singularly relevant remark.

We are going to have a new moon,

My dear.

I have no objection,

Was Meg's equally soothing remark.

A few other topics of general.

.

.

She said,

We're gonna have a new moon.

Well,

I have no problem with that.

A few other topics of general interest were introduced by Mr.

Brooke and read blanked by Mrs.

Brooke and conversation languished.

John went to one window,

Unfolded his paper and wrapped himself in it.

Figuratively speaking,

Meg went to the other window and sued as if neural sets for her slippers were among necessaries of life.

Neither spoke,

Both looked quite calm and firm and both felt desperately uncomfortable.

Oh dear,

Thought Meg,

Married life is very trying and does need infinite patience as well as long,

As mother says.

The word mother suggested other maternal counsels given long ago and received with unbelieving protests.

John's a good man,

But he has his faults and you must learn to see and bear with them.

Remembering your own,

He's very decided,

But never will be obstinate.

If you reason kindly,

Not oppose impatiently,

He's very accurate and particular about the truth.

A good trait,

Though you call him fussy,

Never deceive him by look or word,

Meg,

And he will give you the confidence you deserve.

Support you need?

He has a temper.

Not like ours,

One flash and then all over,

But the white,

Still anger that is seldom stirred,

But once kindled is hard to quench.

Be careful,

Very careful not to wake his anger against yourself,

For peace and happiness depend on keeping his respect.

Watch yourself.

Be the first to ask pardon if you both are,

And guard against the little picks,

Misunderstandings and hasty words that often pave the way for bitter sorrow and regret.

Mommy is such a wise lady.

She is,

And very perceptive about peace.

Yeah,

This makes me think of my own family.

I think my dad and I have the flash and it's all over temper,

And my mom and my brother have more of the white,

Still anger,

And yeah,

I definitely remember various conflicts between those two styles,

But yeah,

It's good advice.

And again,

You know,

Yes,

She should be the first to ask pardon,

But so should everyone in a relationship should be the first to ask pardon,

Right?

Yes.

This isn't just because she's the woman,

But because,

You know,

In having a good relationship,

You should always try to,

You know,

Be the better person if you can.

That is true.

Oh,

I read that Niobe is from Greek mythology.

I'm actually looking at the annotated version right now,

And it says that he boasted about her 14 children and to Zeus's wife Leto,

Who only has two,

Apollo and Artemis,

And in vengeance,

Apollo and Artemis slaughtered Niobe's children,

And she flees to Mount Sipolis and turns to stone,

But despite her transformation,

Continues to cry without thief.

So basically,

Any time in literature,

People refer to Niobe,

It usually has to do with tears,

Lots of crying.

That makes sense in this chapter.

He's like,

Oh,

She's going to be crying herself sick.

I'll just go and comfort her,

And it'll be so beautiful.

And that was not what she found.

Yeah,

I love their little conversation there where he was like trying to say something just random,

And she's like,

Nope.

I was just thinking about like arguing,

Sort of different ways of argument,

Arguments.

Like one of my guests here on the podcast,

We talked about earlier about Jo's and Fredrik's relationship,

And my friend said that she thinks they are the couple in Little Women who has the best communication that we think.

Amy and Laurie,

There are some troubles,

And with Meg and John,

Obviously.

Then with Jo and Fredrik,

They sort of communicate more with the flow,

More easiness.

And I actually think it makes sense because they have very different tempers with Jo and Fredrik.

But I think with Amy and Laurie,

It's more similar than with Meg and John.

I don't know,

This is just my theory about it.

Yeah,

You know,

Jo and Fredrik are older when they get together,

Which I think makes a difference.

That's a good point,

Yeah.

I also think it's one of those things I don't think people really think about when they think that Jo and Laurie should be together.

Because Louisa May Alcott,

She mentions a lot how they argue all the time,

And we don't see that in the movies,

Which frustrates me to no end.

Like I often think about my grandparents because they argued all the time,

It was straining.

And it was weird because I don't think they were that necessary arguments too when they were with other people.

When they were together,

They were always arguing.

And when I was 14,

I decided that I'm not going to see them again because I couldn't stand their arguing.

And it was a very unhappy marriage.

That is also one of those things that if Jo and Laurie would get together,

I just imagine that that would be their relationship.

Because in a way,

You can have a friend like that,

That you sort of argue with or bicker with,

And it doesn't affect you as deeply in a way.

You know,

From them that you have to live with all of the time.

You know,

They love each other and have a great friendship.

And the bickering is sort of part of their friendship.

But also,

You know,

Especially at this time,

You know,

A marriage has a bit more of a power dynamic,

You know?

And so when you're.

.

.

And also you're stuck together,

Right?

You can't get to Borges for her to see that,

You know,

Laurie is awesome to hang out with and,

You know,

We enjoy our little stats and whatnot,

And it's fine.

But if I'm stuck here every day,

All day long with him,

That's not going to work out,

You know?

And I don't think she would want to feel subordinate to him.

Even if you can have somewhat of an equal marriage at that time,

You know,

That's kind of,

You know,

Like what these relationships are about in a certain way.

But there is still that feeling of like.

.

.

And I don't think that she could sort of admire Laurie in the same way that she admires Friedrich,

You know?

In a relationship,

You should always think,

Like both people should think that the other person is better than them in a way,

You know,

You should really be able to admire your partner.

And if you can't admire them,

Then I just don't think it's ever really going to work out.

Yeah,

That's a good way to put it.

I always thought it was really sad,

You know,

The way my grandparents behaved.

I don't think they ever saw divorce as an option.

Right.

I don't know,

Social stigmas,

Whatever reasons.

Yeah.

I did see that it affected my mother in a very bad way,

Because she had lots of problems with anger and didn't always know how to communicate the best way.

And it came from my grandparents,

So.

.

.

Exactly.

Yeah,

It's just a really hard situation to grow up in.

Yeah.

And I think about that a lot when I think about Jo and Laurie,

Because then it would end up into that kind of relationship where you just,

You know,

Become vile against the other person.

Frame of mind,

It's hard to get out of it,

You know?

Yes.

Yeah.

And I just think about sometimes these moments between Jo and Laurie that are not adapted.

Like,

There's the moment around when they are in their 20s.

I think Laurie has bought,

Like,

Gloves or something,

And then Jo complains about him spending money.

Little things like that.

And then Laurie doesn't really care about,

You know,

Spending money.

He is rich,

You know.

Yeah.

I don't know if he needs to care.

And then,

You know,

When Laurie's in college,

Jo complains that he smokes cigars,

Plays billiards.

And it's funny,

Because I was reading Little Men again,

And there's a mention that Fredrik had stopped smoking.

And I was like,

Was that because of Jo's influence?

But.

.

.

Probably.

It says in the book that he did it to be a role model for the boys.

It's like,

No,

That is because of Jo.

Exactly.

Yeah,

So Jo,

You know,

And she,

I think,

Feels in a very sort of older sister way to Laurie as well.

Absolutely.

You know,

She wants him to grow up to be a better man kind of thing.

Yeah.

And also,

When you look at somebody in that perspective,

It is also hard to feel romantic about them.

Yeah.

And I do think when Amy and Laurie meet in Malrosa,

She does express that she is disappointed with him.

It's not so much about,

You know,

Him smoking and being flirty with the girls or anything.

It's that he's not focused on his work or music.

Like,

He doesn't have a direction.

His potential that he should,

You know,

Be doing.

Like,

I don't see Amy scolding Laurie about spending money or,

You know,

Stuff like that.

No,

Not at all.

Yeah.

I feel like she would be pretty in favor of that,

To be honest.

She's like,

Oh,

Got new gloves?

Give me some too.

Buy me a new pair of gloves as well.

Not just yourself.

Yes.

This is something that I would like to make an episode at some point,

Because I think Laurie is a metrosexual in the 19th century.

Right.

He likes to take care of himself.

Yeah.

I think it's totally fine for a man.

Oh,

Yeah.

And maybe more men should do that.

I think that's something that Amy actually likes about him.

And it's something that Joe doesn't like about him.

Right.

Yeah,

It makes Joe feel inadequate and weird.

You know,

She doesn't want to do that herself,

But she also is aware of how they kind of don't match in that regard.

Whereas Amy wants somebody,

You know,

She,

You know,

Takes a lot of pride in her appearance and enjoys that.

And she wants somebody that can come up to her level.

It's like,

You know,

You sometimes see these couples around,

I don't know if it's the same over there,

But where there's like this girl who's all dressed to the nines and looks fabulous.

And then her boyfriend is like in his like cargo shorts.

And,

You know,

I'm always looking at them and thinking like,

Dude,

Kind of,

You know,

Like make an effort here.

Like,

Do you see what your girlfriend is doing?

Let's try to bring it up to the level.

You know,

And I think Amy would not tolerate a cargo shorts man in her life.

Yeah.

Joe does feel attraction to Freddie,

Which we can see in the New York chapters.

But like,

She's not really,

She doesn't really care if he's,

He wears like fancy clothes or something like that.

Like someone who takes care of themselves.

Yeah.

Like she doesn't care about like someone who was an Andy or the flash off.

Yeah.

It's funny because sometimes when I read Louisa May Alcott's quotes on men,

She's like,

They were too dandy or they were too flashy.

Right.

Yeah.

There's a connotation there.

Yeah.

Yeah,

For sure.

Well,

Yeah,

I actually just turned over the page to where I had a bookmark and it's a chapter about Friedrich and where it says he was,

He was as attractive as the genial fire.

I love that quote.

Right.

Isn't that a great phrase?

And I was like,

Oh yes,

I definitely said that.

That's the kind of guy that I'm attracted to as well,

I would say.

And so I like that people seem to gather about him as naturally as about a worm hearth.

Oh,

That's a,

There's a literal connotation to that,

That I found.

There's this,

There was this German immigrant called Charles Vollen,

Was a professor.

He came from Germany as an immigrant because he was like,

So like a political activist in Germany.

Then he moved to US and he was friends with Louisa May Alcott's uncle.

And Louisa met him,

Met him when she was like maybe nine years old.

And he was a very kind man.

Loved being with kids,

Spoke with the German accent and very pleasant type of man.

Sounds like someone we know.

Like someone we know.

And then I read that he later on married an American woman called Eliza.

I think,

I think her name was Eliza.

Eliza was a writer,

A female writer.

Eliza wrote a book about her husband after he passed away.

And Louisa May Alcott read that book when she was like 13 years old.

And there's a quote in the book where it says that Charles was like a genie of fire.

All scene is from the biography.

So that's what I mean when I say Louisa May Alcott planned these marriages when she was a little girl.

Teenager at least.

That blew my mind when I read it.

Yeah,

Right.

That was insane because German immigrant,

Teacher of university in America,

Marries a,

An American female writer.

Yes.

Wow.

That's amazing.

You're just like.

And he was a transcendentalist.

He was friends with Louisa's uncle who was also a transcendentalist.

Amazing.

So I think we shouldn't have the whole team there,

Team Lori thing when we know this.

It's all true.

So true.

Yeah,

I've been meaning to make a,

Make an episode about him.

His name is Charles Follen and wife was Eliza Follen.

And here's one more thing.

His full name was Carl Friedrich Christian Theodor Follen.

Friedrich and Theodor.

Amazing.

Isn't it?

That's so cool.

That's the craziest thing in the,

In the universe.

Yeah,

Right.

Oh my gosh.

It will be in my book.

Absolutely.

Yay.

Oh,

Good.

I can't wait.

I never have anything against Lori.

I like Lori together with Amy,

But I was never like,

Sure Lori are not a good match.

No,

It's true.

Yeah,

I agree.

So these words came back to Meg as she sat sewing in the sunset,

Especially the last.

This was the first serious disagreement.

Her own hasty speeches sounded both silly and unkind as she recalled them.

Her own anger was childish now and thoughts of poor John coming home to such a scene quite melted her heart.

She glanced at him with tears in her eyes,

But he did not see them.

She put down her work and got up thinking I will be the first to say,

Forgive me.

But he did not seem to hear her.

She went very slowly across the room for pride was hard to swallow and stood by him,

But he did not turn his head for a minute.

She felt as if she really couldn't do it.

And then came the thought.

This is the beginning.

I'll do my part and I have nothing to reproach myself with.

And stooping down,

She softly kissed her husband on the forehead.

Of course,

That settled it.

And the penitent kiss was better than a world of words.

And John had her on his knee in a minute saying tenderly.

It was too bad to laugh at the poor little jelly pots.

Forgive me,

Dear.

I never will again.

But he did.

Oh,

Bless you.

Yes.

Hundreds of times.

And so did Meg,

Both declaring that it was the sweetest jelly they ever made for family peace was preserved in that little family jar.

After this,

Meg had Mr.

Scott to dinner by special invitation and served him up a pleasant feast without a cooked wife for the first course,

On which occasion she was so gay and gracious and made everything go off so charmingly that Mr.

Scott told John he was a happy fellow and shook his head over the hardships of bachelorhood all the way home.

They made it work finally.

It was their first quarrel.

Yeah,

Right.

And,

You know,

They did.

They did pretty well.

They got there.

You know where she says,

I will be the first to say and I won't have anything to reproach myself with.

You know,

And that's such a that's such a difficult thing to do in an argument.

Right.

Oh,

Yeah.

I OK,

I'm just going to I'm going to give in.

I'm going to be the bigger person and I'm going to make that first step to forgiveness.

You know,

And it's such a vulnerable place to put yourself in.

It's funny how Mr.

Scott now thinks it's hard to be a bachelor.

Right.

So funny.

Oh,

So this next section.

Oh,

This is such a oh,

It's such a cringey part.

Oh,

Yeah,

That's that's the infamous silk.

In the autumn,

New trials and experiences came to make.

Sally Muffet renewed her friendship,

Was always running out parties of gossip at the little house or inviting that poor deer to come in and spend the day at the big house.

It was pleasant for in dull weather,

Meg often felt lonely or were busy at home,

John absent till night and nothing to do but sew or read or putter about.

So it naturally fell out that Meg got into the way of gadding and gossiping with her friend.

Seeing Sally's pretty things made her long for such and pity herself because she had not got them.

Sally was very kind and often offered her the coveted trifles,

But Meg declined them,

Knowing that John wouldn't like it.

And then this foolish little woman went and did what John disliked infinitely worse.

She knew her husband's income and she loved to feel that he trusted her,

Not only with his happiness,

But what some men seemed to value more.

His money.

She knew where it was,

Was free to take what she liked.

All he asked was that she should keep a count of every penny,

Pay bills once a month,

And remember that she was a poor man's wife.

Till now she had done well,

Been prudent and exact,

Kept her little account books neatly and showed them to him monthly without fear.

But that autumn the serpent got into Meg's paradise and tempted her.

Like many a modern eve,

Not with apples,

But with dress.

Meg didn't like to be pitied and made to feel poor.

It irritated her,

But she was ashamed to confess it.

And now and then she tried to console herself by buying something pretty,

So that Sally didn't need to think she had to scrimp.

She always felt wicked after it,

For the pretty things were seldom necessary.

But then they cost so little it wasn't worth worrying about,

So the trifles increased unconsciously,

And in the shopping excursions she was no longer a passive looker-on.

One of my latest guests,

We talked about the chapter on the shelf.

She mentioned that,

You know,

People sort of sometimes see John and Meg as unequal,

Which is not really true,

Because actually they do share their money,

And this is not usual for the 19th century.

Yeah,

And yeah,

She's keeping the accounts,

She has access to the money.

And this goes back to the earlier chapter where she goes to stay with Sally Moffat for the weekend and again get sort of tempted by the good life,

Wears makeup and drinks champagne.

Yeah,

Vanity Fair.

Yes,

Yes,

The Vanity Fair.

So,

And Meg is always tempted by Vanity Fair,

And you know,

She likes nice things,

And she,

Like we talked about,

She doesn't like anyone to see her shortcomings were real or imagined,

Right?

And she wants to keep up appearances all of the time,

And so it's difficult to have a wealthy friend that you can't keep up with,

And it's a delicate sort of balance that Sally Moffat I don't think is quite delicate enough to handle,

Handle in a way that can make Meg feel a thing about it,

Right?

So it's a hard situation to be in.

I think,

You know,

We've also all been there at some point.

Yeah,

I think my guest said that Sally and Meg are friends,

But they're not friends.

Mm-hmm.

I always feel really bad when I read Meg and Sally,

Their relationship,

Because it feels like Sally tries to make,

Feel Meg feel,

You know,

Less valid,

And I don't know if she means to do it or if she's just ignorant to that.

I don't know.

It doesn't feel very balanced friendship.

No,

It doesn't.

Yeah,

And Sally does really,

You know,

Encourages her,

I think,

In a way that she should be a little bit more aware of,

You know,

Meg's actual situation.

You know,

It's one thing to,

You know,

Encourage your friend,

Oh yeah,

Buy that nice dress,

Treat yourself,

If you know they can afford it,

But she knows that Meg can't afford it.

And that's the thing.

Yeah,

You know,

She,

I mean,

She,

I think she really deliberately,

I mean,

I don't think she's trying to make Meg's life worse,

You know?

She just wants Meg to have what she wants,

Right?

But she also should know better than to be encouraging her,

As opposed to thinking of a way to make the situation easier on Meg.

She'd just not do that.

And so trifles is one thing.

But now we get into something a little bit more serious in the next section here.

Alright,

Everyone just brace up,

We're gonna get through it.

But the trifles cost more than one would imagine,

And when she cast up her accounts at the end of the month,

The sum total rather scared her.

John was dizzy that month and left the bills to her.

The next month he was absent,

But the third,

He had a grand quarterly settling up and Meg never forgot it.

A few days before,

She had done a dreadful thing and it weighed upon her conscience.

Sally had been buying silks and Meg ached for a new one,

Just a handsome light one for parties.

Her black silk was so common and thin things for evening wear were only proper for girls.

Aunt March usually gave the sisters a present of $25 a piece at New Year.

That was only a month to wait,

And here was a lovely violet silk going at a bargain,

And she had the money if she only dared to take it.

John always said what was his was hers,

But would he think it right to spend not only the prospective $5.

20,

But another $5.

20 out of the household fund?

That was the question.

Sally had urged sure to do it,

Had offered to loan the money,

And with the best intentions in life had tempted Meg beyond her strength.

In evil moment,

The shopman held up the lovely shimmering folds and said,

A bargain,

I assure you,

Ma'am.

I'll take it.

And it was cut off and paid for,

And Sally had exulted,

And she had laughed as if it was a thing of no consequence,

And driven away feeling as if she had stolen something and the police were after her.

When she got home she tried to assuage the pangs of remorse by spreading forth the lovely silk,

But it looked less silvery now,

Didn't become her after all,

And the words $50 seemed stamped like a pattern down each breadth.

She put it away,

But it haunted her,

Not delightfully,

As new dress should,

But dreadfully,

Like the ghost of a folly that was not easily laid.

When John got out his books that night,

Meg's heart sank,

And for the first time in her married life she was afraid of her husband.

The kind brown eyes looked as if they could be stern,

And though he was unusually merry,

She fancied he had found her out,

But didn't mean to let her know it.

The house bills were all paid,

The books all in order.

John had praised her and was undoing the old pocketbook which they called the bank,

When Meg,

Knowing that it was quite empty,

Stopped his hand saying nervously,

You haven't seen my private expense book yet.

Oh my goodness,

This is so much money.