Little Women Podcast: Jo´s Desire To Become A Mother

Hi,

My name is Nina.

This episode originally appeared in the Little Woman podcast,

Which is a podcast that I host.

I am joined by Christina Scott,

Who is a fellow Little Woman fan and a blogger.

I hope you enjoy our discussions.

Hello Little Woman fans,

I am very excited about today's episode.

When I have read Louisa Mayagel's diaries,

I can say she really loved children.

I was reading a letter she wrote to a publisher and she is like,

My nephews are asking my attention.

If you excuse me,

I need to leave this letter short.

Showing Little Woman adores children,

Especially boys.

And when Little Woman became very successful,

Louisa donated lots of money to different childcare organizations and orphan houses.

And there is a mention in her journals from the time when she was in her 20s that she would like to start a school for boys someday.

She didn't do that in real life,

But gave the dream to Joe,

Who's a sister Anna,

Who was the real life McMarge.

She and her husband John had two sons and Louis adored her nephews.

In Little Woman,

Joe worships her niece and her nephew.

And she's over the moon because Fridic has two nephews that he's raising.

And it's mentioned in the books that Joe was particularly close with Fridic's older nephew,

France.

France is written to be a very calm and academic young man.

The younger nephew Emil,

He's more wilder,

But I always thought that Joe liked France more because he was different to her.

And Emil is more like Joe herself.

I remember reading that Louisa was closer with her oldest nephew,

And maybe that is where it came from.

One of the saddest things in Louisa's letters and journals are her quotes about her next life.

Louisa believed in reincarnation,

And she writes that in her next life she gets her quote,

Reward.

Then she gets love and family because she has worked so hard in her current life and made so many sacrifices that she deserves them.

If you ever want to find the sources I've used for this podcast,

They can be found from the episode transcript.

Some of you must have heard someone saying that Louisa Mary chose her father.

Every time when I hear that,

I wonder,

Have these people actually read Little Woman?

Because more than anything,

Friedrich and then John Brooke,

They are written to be anti-Bronston Alcott.

Joe's father in the novel is actually pretty different to Bronston.

They are both pastors,

But the work ethics are different.

One of the book blockers I came across said that Bronston Alcott was actually more similar to Laurie.

This is a quote from this blogger,

Galey Road.

As a German immigrant,

Professor Bear understands and experiences hard work and struggle.

He bears in mind the responsibility he has in caring for a woman if he is to marry.

He is more grounded and stable than Laurie,

Whose idealized hopes of marriage remind me of Louisa's own description of her imprudent father.

Quote,

He was a man in a balloon with his family holding the ropes,

Trying to hold him down to earth.

End quote.

I have quite mixed feelings about Bronston Alcott.

I quite like some of his teaching methods.

They were very progressive,

But there were times when he would go on these long lecture tours and leave his family to struggle financially.

And he had all these great ideas,

But then he always left things halfway.

Laurie in Little Woman,

He likes to procrastinate a lot.

He says how he likes to do things,

And then he doesn't do them.

In the book there is a chapter called Lazy Laurie,

But that to me is also what makes Amy and Laurie so special because she says to him,

If you want Jo to love you or at least respect you,

She's not going to do that because Jo hates lazy people.

And Laurie has such a great regard for Amy that he actually listens to her.

I do believe that Louisa and her sister May,

The real life Amy,

Both loved their father,

But they are very critical about him in their letters.

And the same goes with the real life Laurie's that they knew.

Jo and Fritz in Little Woman are really not like Louisa's father.

They are hardworking men who would never abandon their families,

And Laurie gets better after he decides that it's time to be productive.

But like we have said many times in this podcast,

The filmmakers seem to have a collective agreement to ignore Laurie's character arc.

This episode is sponsored by Skillshare.

If you don't want to procrastinate,

They have all amazing courses to you from creative writing to music composing.

And you can get one free month with the link in the description.

This is Molly of the Brain,

Little Woman podcast.

Just desire to become a mother.

The story about Laddie,

You know,

I think one of the reasons why I always like to hang out with him,

It's almost like she always wanted to have somebody there that she could take care of was in her sister.

Or when she worked in the war as a nurse,

And then there was Laddie and she took care of him because he had tuberculosis.

You can see that Louisa always had this very maternal side that she liked to take care of people and her parents later on.

And then Joe is very much the same.

And we just recently talked about this with some fans on Discord that in the 1994 film,

You can see this maternal side of Joe.

And then in the 1949 film,

And I like that when people add that dimension of her to the films,

Because it's a big part of her that she is this maternal character.

People always complain that,

Oh,

Friedrich is so paternal,

Fatherly figure.

Well,

Joe is very maternal in the book.

Of course,

She would like to be with somebody who is a fatherly character and loves children as much as Joe does.

Yeah.

And it's surprising that people would think that,

I remember someone said,

Even if a person doesn't like kids,

See how they react to them because it tells you so much of their character.

And even if someone who doesn't like kids is still good with kids,

That says a lot.

But if you're someone that is like,

Get away from me,

Kids,

Like that's not a good judge of character.

That's not a good sign.

So it's surprising that someone would say,

Oh,

This character likes being with kids or is a father figure to almost any child that he sees.

That's a horrible thing.

It's like,

Why?

Like,

It shows that they have a really good heart.

And,

You know,

If you were that type of person,

It's like,

I'm looking for someone to settle down with and to start life with,

With a family.

Seeing how they are with other children tells you a lot.

And they,

And these two also,

I think,

Get axed a lot.

I think only in the Masterpiece Theatre,

2017,

One.

Franz's email gets so cut from the story and I feel that it tells a lot of who Friedrich is because the fact that he takes in his nephews and treats them as if they are his own,

Not just like,

I'm their uncle and these are my nephews and I take care of them.

Like,

No,

He treats them almost as if they are his own is so telling of how his character is and the way that he treats Tina,

The sweet little girl.

Like he just is like,

Oh,

Come,

Come,

Come to me,

Come to your old bear,

Treats her as if she's his own is what impresses,

I think,

Joe a lot is just how good he is with kids.

And I think,

Like you said,

That it touches that sort of maternal part of her who loves being with kids,

Love to take care of people,

As we have seen with Beth.

Beth is pretty much,

I feel almost like she was,

If she could,

She would have been like her surrogate mom.

It kind of reminds me their relationship of that one scene in Mermaids with Winona Ryder and Christina Ricci where she says,

When you came home from the hospital,

I tried to get you to call me mom.

I feel like that would have been very much Joe and Beth's relationship.

You got to hate kids that much to be like,

I can't be with someone that is friendly to children.

What's wrong with you?

One of the things that I liked about Fred when he comes to court show,

How he spends time with her niece and nephew.

Then there's the scene with the chocolate.

So sweet in Charles' voice.

I think that's really one of the best ones when you can see how Fridig and Joe react with their sons and their teenagers.

And then there's that scene where the boys,

The other one gets bitten by the dog and then they go to tell their parents and then they're really nervous to tell them.

And they're just like,

Oh,

We love you.

And they comfort them so sweet.

I love Rob and Ted.

And I would like to see that story to be adapted a lot more often in Little Man.

It's also mentioned how France almost became like Joe's son.

He saw her more as a mother figure.

They were very close.

So France was Fridig's oldest nephew.

I mean,

It tells a lot about a character that he comes to this new country to take care of his sister and then adopts her two sons when she dies.

It tells everything about Fridig's care.

When Joe is in New York and she writes that letter to Marmi,

It's all about Fridig.

I think that story about the way he lost his sister and adopted boys,

It was something that really moved Joe.

It's something that feels very attractive to.

One of the many things about him.

It would be nice to see that in the films.

One of my favorite scenes in the 1994 film is the part where Fridig is playing with the children.

And I liked that also in the 2017 series.

And another moment,

And it just kind of hit me and I have my copy of my book right next to me just to double check.

But in some of the other movies,

They sort of switch it to be an adult.

But in the 2017 film and in the book,

The first time Joe sees Professor Bear is when a little servant girl is carrying this bucket of coal.

And he takes it from her like this,

The little back is too young for to have such heaviness.

It doesn't matter whether or not they are a child as a boarder or a servant.

He's a friend to all children.

And like that is like such a sweet little moment and some of the other versions like the Katharine Hepfer one in the Junals and they make it that they're an adult carrying like a load of laundry or something like that.

But again,

It's one of those telling moments that he sees that this little girl who is a servant and like,

Like,

I mean,

We can talk about like child laws,

Labor laws as much as we want someone who is supposed to be working and he sees that they're struggling.

And it's like,

No,

Little one,

You're that's not supposed to be what you're supposed to do.

Like,

No,

Even though other people would have been like,

That's her job.

So what if she's 10?

She's supposed to carry that bucket of coal.

Like he is just like,

But she's 10.

She shouldn't be carrying a bucket.

Again,

That's a very telling just like how not only how good he is with children,

But just the fact that he recognizes that I don't care if it's your job,

Like you as a person should not be carrying that that's not supposed to be your job.

An adult should be really doing your job,

Honestly,

But as far as I can recall,

The masterpiece theater one,

The 2017 adaptation was faithful to the book in that regard.

I really wish they would have developed a lot more in that series because they were doing a really good job with that little time that they had,

Except the part of him shouting at the writing.

It was pretty decent.

Yeah,

Yeah.

There it goes.

Yeah,

I think the closest we get to the proper approach of the sort of daily volcano is,

And it's weird for me to say it,

Even though I know that this is supposed to be a sort of remake of the earlier version,

But really,

I think the June Allison one does it best because it comes across more of instead of Friedrich being disappointed,

He's more questioning like,

I'm surprised because you don't seem to be the type of person to write those kinds of characters.

And Joe admitting like,

I know they're not the greatest,

But they help get money in and I've been having a hard time with publishing what it is that I want to publish.

And it's becoming more of a discussion of,

You are a good writer,

I know you are,

But stick with what makes you feel good about writing rather than trying to kowtow to what these people want.

And I wish that,

Again,

If it was if I had my version,

I would make that a very clear distinction of the difference that Friedrich has of sensationalism versus Joe writing for it because they're like,

He knows that she is writing it,

But for the sake of money and,

And he's like,

I,

I totally get where you're coming from,

Because I know that you are doing it in the same way as I would for money,

But most versions will play it like,

Oh,

I thought you were better than that.

And this makes me think less of you or whatever.

And like Joe taking it as like a hard blow,

But like,

She seeks out his advice in writing.

And he gives it it's not the daily volcano stuff that she hands him,

Because she's not proud of that work,

Really.

But in general,

Her regular writing,

He likes and he gives constructive criticism,

But he's never mean to her about it.

He's more upset of what the daily volcano represents sort of almost the equivalent of like,

Why are you showing a R rated movie at 12 o'clock in the afternoon when kids are home on a channel that is accessible to children?

Like that's sort of how I would equate it in a modern day sense,

Like that sort of feeling of like,

Why is that out there?

How is that this accessible to children?

You know,

Why is it that they can flip a channel going from Disney to this channel,

And all of a sudden,

If they do,

They'll see someone hacking a person to death and boobies and,

And a crazy amount of square words that just fly out of the mouth.

Like,

I think people don't see it that way.

But but that's how I always sort of interpreted that it was not not at all a criticism criticism against Joe,

But just what the daily volcano stood for.

And I think at most adaptations somehow blend the two and it makes Friedrich not look the greatest when it's such a shame.

It's really sad because I think a lot of people use that against him,

But then it's not in the book.

And it's so annoying.

I get this a lot from Joe and Laurie fans.

Well,

Friedrich hated Joe's writing.

It doesn't happen in the book.

And then in the book,

It's actually Laurie who doesn't really,

It's not that he's against Joe writing,

But he when he proposes he expects that Joe is going to stop writing and be sort of this mother figure wife for him.

That's,

That's no good.

And in the 1949 film,

I think it's,

It's very subtle.

There is a scene where Laurie sort of doesn't understand why Joe wants to work.

So it's a nice comparison that Joe and Friedrich see.

Not only does it give him the feedback,

But also inspires her to become a better writer.

In the 49 version,

Like you said,

She's like,

Oh,

I need it for the money.

He's like,

Well,

I've got plenty of that.

So like,

And he's still so confused.

And it's like,

It's not just the money,

It helps.

But it's her creative outlet.

And like you said,

It's very subtle,

But like it does point out that he doesn't get it that just because it doesn't offer something that can't already be had.

To him,

He thinks,

Well,

I can give you the money so you don't have to worry about writing like he doesn't realize that that's like a passion.

I think that's also reflected to the way Laurie views his music,

Because he speaks about how he's going to compose this great opera,

But then he doesn't really do the work.

Yeah.

And again,

I think people don't realize that,

Like when they read the first book,

They just kind of go like,

Oh,

So that's it.

She just,

Quote unquote,

Gave up and never wrote again.

It's like,

Well,

No,

She does manage to write.

And I think that they try to sort of give you that feeling when you see in the adaptations him helping her to publish a story,

Whether it's the sort of Little Women itself or,

Or as I kind of like in the 1949 version where it's the My Beth story.

I totally understand when people do that because her writing Little Women because it's supposed to be like,

Like we all I get we all know that the marches are the fictional version of the Alconts,

But I feel like when you go a little too far,

You're sort of blending,

You're blending what is real and what's fiction,

Almost crossing the streams,

As they say in Ghostbusters,

Which is something that really happened in Gerwig's version,

Which confused the Hal-Is.

Particularly with the does she does,

Doesn't she end up with Friedrich kind of ending,

Which I did not think was a great end.

But I like that the idea that he follows her work.

And I think if he was going to publish anything,

It'd be the My Beth sort of story or poems,

However it is.

And I think it's only in the 2017 version,

The masterpiece one where we see,

Well,

I don't think we actually see it,

But I feel like we get hints of it in the 1978 version that we see Friedrich kind of following Joe's writings after New York.

And that tells a lot that he genuinely is watching how she progresses and is very proud of her to the point of cutting it out and putting it on his fireplace as like almost as if like,

You know,

Look,

Look at what the woman that I'm in love with just did.

Isn't that like amazing?

Like for everyone to see if they ever came into his room,

Like look at this.

I really,

Really hate it when they portray Joe and Friedrich,

Like they argue and then she returns back to Concord.

And I hate it when that happens.

And it's in the 1994 film and 2019 film.

As much as I don't like that comparing the two,

The 1994 version did it better where it felt more like,

Like,

Oh,

These two are just like friends and they got like into an argument whereas the 2019 version,

It's like,

Yeah,

I sat there just like after that argument,

I was like,

For the first time ever,

I was like,

I hate Joe.

And I never said that we had to take a moment between because we were we had to do something in the middle and we were kind of discussing I was like,

I've never said this,

But I hate Joe.

And it was amazing to me how again,

Girl we just,

I don't know,

Was so confusing.

She almost made past Joe be seen almost more mature than current storyline Joe because I was I like look at the screen like you did not just say that like when Friedrich is trying to tell her like his criticism.

And like for her to full blown out and say like,

You know,

Quite literally,

I may be paraphrasing it,

But it's the same feeling of your mean and and I don't like you and I don't want to be your friend.

Like,

That sounds like a like a what a five year old would say like,

That doesn't sound very mature.

You are trying to sort of,

Again,

I can go on about the sort of split ending how in neither way will Joe be happy.

But if you're trying to make me believe that in the Joe gets with Friedrich storyline that it's going to be a happy ending.

It's not because we barely see any real interactions with them for most of the time she seems to be ignoring him probably only at the dance.

That's probably like their one time where we actually see them have any sort of like,

Oh,

They like each other.

But other than that,

It's like she ignores him or she's yelling at him and like,

Then I'm supposed to believe that she's in love with him and that we got to go chase him down,

Which I didn't like Megan Amy following her to the train station.

But yeah,

I just sat there going like,

It's not a happy ending,

Even if I tried to make myself believe that,

That Joe ends up with Friedrich part,

Because it doesn't seem like to that end that she was really all into him.

And almost seemed forced to it,

Like,

I don't know,

Like,

Maybe that's maybe that's just me.

But that was what I took from it was just that either the one story line of she gets her novel published,

But is lonely.

After that whole big speech and her writing the letter to Lori,

Which never happens in the book of saying I will marry you.

And then to find out that Lori is with Amy,

She is still even though she has her book published,

She is still very lonely.

Or you go with the timeline of her with Friedrich,

There's no proper development to make me think,

First of all,

What does Friedrich see in this Joe because this Joe seems totally disinterested and even mean towards you,

Unless you're a glutton for that kind of thing.

And where in the hell did that whole,

You know,

I love you sequence come it felt more like it's sort of desperation to have someone in her life,

Which is why neither one of these endings I feel is a happy ending because it doesn't feel honest,

It doesn't feel true to either one.

And I and it's one why would you do a split ending like that?

I'm assuming to try to pander to those who are pro Friedrich versus anti Friedrich,

But either way,

No matter who you are,

It's not a happy ending for Joe either way.

Yeah,

I remember Jimena from the other art law,

She said that that whole scene of Joe shouting at him made her feel very uncomfortable.

And then she read the book and it was completely different.

And she was really shocked by it.

I talked to our school,

She's in baby.

And I remember that she told me that she felt that Gary's film was all about money.

Well,

If you think about it,

It tries to appeal to asexuals,

LGBTQ community,

Joe and Laurie shippers,

Those who want to be a spinner and those who want to go to be with him.

And none of the characters doesn't have any kind of storyline because of this open ending.

So it's all about the money and hate speech.

Because if you think about it,

He made a hate speech complaining about Felix's accent and him being German.

When I read the 2019 film guide,

Gary also said that she felt really sad how Louisa May Alcott rewrote her life to her books.

So I got this feeling that Gary must have had some kind of feeling that,

Well,

Little Woman was a wish fulfillment,

And that she was very lonely.

And that's why she wrote this happy endings to her characters.

And yet,

Gary decided to go with this open ending and to make fun of the novel.

Yeah,

I think the 2019 film is all about money.

I personally don't believe anything that Gary has said because they don't match with anything that Louisa May Alcott has written or said,

Especially when you know the context about her love life.

I actually find the film very problematic when it comes to Little Woman research and Louisa May Alcott research because I get so many people asking me things to clarify things that happened in the 2019 film and then don't happen in the book.

I read this blog post on Tumblr from someone who had seen the 2019 film and then they were trying to explain what it was like to be Laurie.

And they said,

Oh,

It's because Jo just wanted to live happily free in New York or that she wanted to travel the world.

And I'm like,

Well,

I've read the book.

Jo is not very happy when she's in New York.

And somebody also commented that when people think about Jo being alone in New York and happy,

They are thinking Sex and the City or some other modern TV series.

Because when the book Jo is in New York,

She's actually 90% of the time with Fritz and then 10% of the time she's with kids or then she's writing about her writing.

But honestly,

Most of the time she's somehow with Freilich in different situations.

When she writes to home,

It's all about Freilich in her letters.

And she spent a year in New York,

A very long time when you are trying to get to know someone.

When I think about Jo and Freilich in New York,

Neither one of them actually really has to be there that much.

Freilich has this dream that he could have a family and maybe live somewhere in the countryside or have more of a closer connection with nature or establish himself as a teacher again.

And then Jo has this wish that she could live close to her family and have her own family there as well.

And again,

That's why it makes me feel like most versions timing of Jo going to New York being seen as almost being like,

Gotta get away.

And on one hand,

You know,

I think for Jo,

It's kind of like,

You know,

I was promised to go to Europe and I'm itching to just kind of go somewhere,

But not forever.

I will want to come back.

I just need to see something and maybe it will be good for the writing.

But like you said,

She doesn't want to leave home really.

And it's not until that she makes a friend with Freilich that she kind of feel more comfortable to be in New York because I think if she didn't,

She would not have been there for as long as she was.

I think she probably would have been there for like a few months and been like,

Okay,

I'm really missing home.

Like there's not much here for me.

I'll just go back.

But Freilich is what helps her feel much more comfortable being in New York.

And it's almost a sense of with them a home away from home that they both understand each other and they both have that same sort of familiarity that makes homesickness feel better.

But yeah,

I think if there was no Friedrich there,

She would not have stayed as long.

Yeah,

I agree.

It's like they are both having the same goal of wanting to have a shared home.

And I think with Freilich,

Especially because he's an immigrant,

It really affects that idea.

I think in Germany they even have a name for it.

It's called Heinwerknachtenfende,

The idea of a romanticized home.

It means that there is a sort of familiarity within a person or a place.

So I think both Schoenfreilich had that similar idea what a home meant for them.

And then they saw that in each other.

That was our chat today.

Christina and I will continue our discussion next week.

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Thank you so much for listening.

Take care and make good choices.

Bye.