Little Women Podcast: Vanity Fair Part 2

Hello friends!

This is Niina from The Little Woman podcast.

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Part two.

And I think the section where Meg is kind of like,

Oh well,

I saw things in a certain way and all of a sudden,

Like,

You know,

These people's,

You know,

Ultimately meaningless perceptions come in and kind of ruin how you see a situation and you just kind of repeat those particular phrases to yourself.

It's deeply relatable.

She's just like,

You know,

Oh my family is,

You know,

We have a certain people,

Things are a certain way in our family and we have this friendship and now other people's just,

You know,

Points of view they're projecting on us and it's just,

It's just kind of ruined everything and I can see that.

It would be a nightmare for me to live in this kind of community where your actions are always sort of part of town gossip.

I was thinking about this part where Meg hears this gossip about her mother and I don't get this sense that she has known Annie and these Moffats for,

I don't know how good friends they are.

They are friends but they're not actual friends.

Yeah,

Or it could be a situation where she's friends with the girls,

Maybe superficially but she's never really had to interact with the family on a very intimate basis.

I mean it's implied that Mr.

Moffat has known their family for a bit,

Has known their father for a bit and it's kind of like a family friend situation where you're friends because you kind of know each other and you are the same age and your parents have chatted but then you haven't really got to know each other's value systems and of course she's getting to the age where you start to pay attention to adult value systems and she's probably never had to really think about those before and I've noticed this with you know my family's interactions with friends that I've known my entire life like maybe my relationship with their kids is good but then I start to also observe the parents and sometimes you know just because you're friends with the kids doesn't mean you know the parents very well but then you kind of get to a point where the what the parents do actually matters so I think it's that kind of situation.

When she hears this gossip I get this feeling that she has been trusting to these people and they betray her trust even though she's not that very familiar with them but it's almost like childish trust that you have for other people that we all have at some point that is broken after this.

Yeah you have a sense that she's like oh they've taken care of me they're they're so nice and they've taken care of me and and I think Siz Moffat is described as this very plump and you know kind person and then of course I think it's even like a shock for us to hear her talking about her mommy this way well in this kind of not malicious but but frankly quite insulting way.

Yeah and I think the voice of the novel and also Meg they're there I think they're doing they're being quite charitable with describing them as being nice maybe they are I don't know if Jo would really see it the same way.

Where were we?

We were at Mrs Moffat lumbering in like an elephant in silken lace.

I love that description.

I'm going out to get some little matters for my girls.

Can I do anything for you young ladies?

Asked Mrs Moffat lumbering in like an elephant in silken lace.

No thank you ma'am replied Sally.

I've got my new pink silk for Thursday and I don't want the thing.

No I began Meg but stopped because it cured her that she did once several things and could not have them.

What shall you wear?

Asked Sally.

My old white one again if I can mend it fit to be seen.

It got sadly torn last night said Meg trying to speak quite easily but feeling very uncomfortable.

Why don't you send home for another?

Said Sally who was not an observing young lady.

I haven't got any other.

It caused Meg an effort to say that but Sally did not see it and exclaimed in amiable surprise.

Only that how funny.

She did not finish her speech for Belle shook her head at her and broke in saying kindly not at all.

Where is the use of having a lot of dresses when she isn't out?

There is no need of sending home Daisy even if you had a dozen for I've got a sweet blue silk laid away which I've outgrown and you shall wear it to please me won't you dear?

You are very kind but I don't mind my old dress if you don't It does well enough for a little girl like me said Meg.

Now do let me please myself by dressing you up in style I admire to do it and you'd be a regular little beauty with a touch here and there.

I shan't let anyone see you till you are done and then we'll burst upon them like Cinderella and her godmother going to the ball said Belle in her persuasive tone.

Meg couldn't refuse the offer so kindly made for a desire to see if she would be a little beauty after touching up caused her to accept and forget all her former uncomfortable feelings towards the Muffets.

On the Thursday evening Belle shut herself up with her mate and between them they turned Meg into a fine lady.

They crumpled and curled her hair they polished her neck and arms with some fragrant powder touched her lips with coral insolve to make them redder and Hortense would have added a soup cone of rouge if Meg had not rebelled.

They laced her into a sky blue dress which was so tight she could hardly breathe and so low in the neck that modest Meg blushed at herself in the mirror a set of silver filigree was added,

Bracelets,

Necklace,

Brooch and even earrings for Hortense tied them on with a bit of pink silk which did not show.

A cluster of t-rose buds at the bosom and a rouge reconciled Meg to the display of her pretty white shoulders and a pair of high-heeled blue silk boots satisfied the last wish of her heart.

A laced handkerchief,

A plummy fan and a bouquet in a silver holder finished her off and Miss Belle surveyed her with the satisfaction of a little girl with a newly dressed doll.

Mommacelle is charmante,

Chez Jolie is she not?

Cried Hortense,

Clasping her hands in an effected rapture.

Come and show yourself said Miss Belle leading the way to the room where the others were waiting as Meg went rustling after with her long skirts trailing her earrings,

Tinkling her curls waving and her heart beating.

She felt as if her fun had really began at last while the mirror had plainly told her that she was a little beauty.

Her friends repeated the pleasing phrase enthusiastically and for several minutes she stood like the jackdaw in the table enjoying her borrowed plumes while the rest chattered like a party of magpies.

Yeah,

Yeah.

I mean I must say I know that we're not supposed to really love that Meg is made up.

This is not supposed to be the constant state of affairs but I do like this description of this scene.

Like I said before but it's like you can just see the outfit.

When I have read this chapter to me this has always been about Meg feeling very conflicted about things because on one hand she sees that this is all like a big show like it's not really how how would I say it it's almost like people showing off themselves trying to be more important than they are but then there's a part of her that likes it the attention that she gets.

She likes the other people praising her and she she really does enjoy it and I mean it just kind of makes me think of when you go to birthday parties and they kind of do up your hair and in different ways and you just you just really want to see how how it would look and I mean later on she's ashamed of it but frankly I'm just kind of like I don't know just try it just try it out as you know just to see it.

I think it's a good experience for her frankly.

She's not used to say showing off her shoulders which was the fashion at the time because you were almost expected to in the these evening gowns in the 1860s and and she kind of has to do these little things like you know put these flowers on to just be like okay I don't feel as you know self-conscious about that.

The book has a very I think has its own value judgment on this whole on this scene you know this fable like the jackdaw in the fable which I I just looked up and it's this bird that I think is is vain has found some feathers from a peacock and it's like a jackdaw that dresses himself up in some peacock feathers and then and then of course then the peacocks are like well what are you doing you're not one of us even if you put on the feathers and which is just a very you know interesting parallel to this situation with Meg who wants to fit in with these with these very glamorous rich people glamorous looking rich people so it feels a little bit damning almost unnecessarily.

The narrator does said says that even Belle herself sees Meg as a doll that she can dress up and play dress-up games with her and yeah they're not really her friends they're not her enemies but they are not friends because they objectify her they sort of belittle her they kind of make mock of the fact that she doesn't have money and that she only has one dress they kind of make fun of that Laurie's her friend and they sort of joke that he's his he's her suitor yeah anyone who would feel conflicted by that because I think it's she's much more relaxed and much more herself when when her sisters are dressing her up but when she's dressed up by Belle Gardner it's mentioned that she feels quite uncomfortable by that at times is this okay to be dressed up by this person is this okay if I like I think that I look pretty yeah yeah because I think this this book has several scenes of people dressing other people right whenever the sisters dress each other they're always kind of looking out for each other's best assets right I think they're always having they always have this sense of like okay maybe this isn't super flashy but it has good taste good on you this way and there's not really a sense of that thoughtfulness when Belle dresses Meg right I would say Belle is the most tactful one of all of the other girls here right because you know you're Sally like oh why don't you just like you know send her another dress and it's just um and Belle is the one who's just like be quiet and you in in this very subtle moment and then finds a way to really convince Meg to put on the dress it's just like yeah I I just can't I've just outgrown it and it just would you know really be good for me if you did this it would just make me really happy she's really good at persuading Meg and she and she knows just how to smooth things over within what little we know of of Belle but of course we we can see that that discomfort that you talked about where she the dress is too tight it is very tight and we know that if her sisters were dressing her they would have made those kinds of considerations and it's very much people doing these things to her and not really being like oh well Meg has these features that we should really um accentuate Meg has this kind of natural beauty that we should you know that we should emphasize we've talked so much about we've we've read so many chapters with people preparing each other and dressing each other and that's an interesting contrast a lot of this really reminds me of Emma and Harriet from Jane Austen's Emma oh yeah yes actually yes Emma she's very complicated character but her biggest flaw might be that she wants to sort of highlight her own importance by being charitable and I feel like the Moffat's and the Gardner's are quite in the same same space yeah that's why I'm less willing to be like oh they're being kind they meant well because I mean I feel like they're just being like oh we are just so nice to give our things to this person who is so poor and clearly is really hard done on we'll just feel really good about ourselves and we'll have played with this person and like because Meg is clearly for their pleasure they don't actually really care about her as a person yes and a very good scene in the 1994 film because you can really see that she feels quite uncomfortable in the way they are dressing her up I love that scene I think it's my favorite scene in the 1994 film yeah yeah no it's a it's a very good scene it's better with the opera smooching but you know that's a whole nother level but like my favorite Meg scene maybe of all adaptations I love that the way they interact in that scene it's so true to the book I love it I mean this chapter is actually quite long and there's a lot of very subtle interaction here and they kind of really put it into one scene one very small scene what really stands out to me especially in the early chapters is how much fairy tale reference there is into other stories a Cinderella and her godmother going to the jackdaw from the fable the fable of the jackdaw that reference is just the very much a sense of yeah Meg's trying to fit in with these people who are never going to actually accept her and it's very silly it's the marches they used to be you know more well off Louisa grew up very poor she grew up in poverty and it took a very very long time for her to even make decent amount of money to herself this kind of thing would be very exotic for her yeah no I mean just it's kind of like going into another world and in the sense it's kind of like Meg's experience of being able to go into another world for a time and I don't know that it's even really an escape for her it just kind of looks really nice but then has all these aspects to it that do make her quite uncomfortable and do trouble her quite a bit I mean it makes sense she based on her own education but her own you know desires and envies that you know she would have a lot of complicated feelings around this experience I will say though that like I would love to have a night in a really nice dress like that it does sound like a really nice dress and a nice outfit yes I would in general like to go to a ball of like in the 19th century I think Jane Austen Festival does reenactments I think here and there there are balls that you can go to in historical recreations I think you know those sorts of things exist like I know like some Victorian cosplayers and costume costumers I think they I see these things on Instagram a lot so I think I think they do exist I'm sure it's not cheap though probably not yeah because then you'd have to kind of either make or buy the outfit and then you'd have to actually you know go so but yeah no it does it does exist though nice while I dress do you drill her Nan in the management of her skirt and those French heels or she will trip herself take your silver butterfly and catch up that long curl on the left side of her head Clara and don't any of you disturb the charming work of my hands said Belle as she hurried away looking well pleased with her success you don't look a bit like yourself but you are very nice I'm nowhere beside you for Belle has heaps of taste and you're quite French I assure you let your flowers hang so don't be so careful of them and be sure you don't trip returned Sally trying not to care that Meg was prettier than herself keeping that warning carefully in mind Margaret got safely downstairs and sailed into the drawing rooms where the Moffat's and a few early guests were assembled she very soon discovered that there is a charm about fine clothes which attracts a certain class of people and secures their respect several young ladies who had taken no notice of her before were very affectionate all of a sudden several young gentlemen who had only stared at her at the other party now not only stared but asked to be introduced and said all manner of foolish but agreeable things to her and several old ladies who sat on the sofas and criticized the rest of the party inquired who she was with an air of interest she heard Mrs.

Moffat reply to one of them Daisy March father a colonel in the army one of our first families but reverses of fortune you know intimate friends of the Lawrence's sweet creature I assure you my net is quite wild about her dear me said the old lady putting up her glass for another observation of Meg who tried to look as if she had not heard and been rather shocked at Mrs.

Moffat's fibs the queer feeling did not pass away but she imagined herself acting the new part of fine lady and so got on pretty well though the tight dress gave her a side ache the train kept getting under her feet and she was in constant fear lest her earrings should fly off and get lost or broken she was flirting her fan and laughing at feeble jokes of a young gentleman who tried to be witty and when she suddenly stopped laughing and looked confused for just opposite she saw Laurie he was staring at her with undisguised surprised and disapproval also she thought for though he bowed and smiled yet something in his honest eyes made her blush and wish she had her old dress on to complete her confusion she saw bell nudge Annie and both glanced from her to Laurie who she was happy to see looked unusually boyish and shy silly creatures to put such thoughts into my head I won't care for it or let change me a bit thought Meg and rustled across the room to shake hands with her friend yeah no I think we kind of follow along with from bell feeling pleased with her success showing off her own taste and then I thought it was interesting this turn of phrase you're quite french yeah again this this um you know french taste showing up um or reference to french fashion and taste coming up in um in this story I feel like it made me think of how a lot of things just kind of stay the same because I don't know if you remember that there was all a rage in sort of a blogging world where everyone wanted to be parisian at some point and dress like french girls and eat like french girls dress and eat and live like french girls I don't know if you saw a kind of caught some of that people are still aspiring to be like like the french it's uh it's interesting and also like mrs muffet doesn't even refer to her by her own name which is just wild and just telling her businesses and also her father is not a colonel even she he's a he's a he's a chaplain if from what I understand in the army doesn't even really engage much in combat what we understand so and I made up a story of her of her background yeah of her first families but reverses the fortune oh my god I wanted to kind of talk a bit about this particular passage of people reacting to her because I think it's an interesting gendered response to her I feel like which I find very interesting because it seems that a lot of men had already taken interest in her right but then the women also had seemed to have not really paid attention to her before but then now pay attention to her because of her clothing and it seems like it is a very slight difference in in how the men versus the women react to her her costume change which makes me think that the men already liked her but thought that they were just kind of still conscious enough of class that they thought maybe not but now they just want um they're like oh well she looks like more like the sort of person that we're expected to interact with and now then they talk to her and then also with the women they just kind of seem to have dismissed her outright because of her clothing and now they pay attention to her again which makes me think a lot about the reasons that we even dress well in the first place because half the time I think we're not even dressing to attract partners we're attracting to just impress other people our peers I thought that was an interesting detail it's interesting Sally is just is like oh Meg's prettier than me and I thought that was interesting I thought that was funny but of course in in the novel we're not you know being making these people feel envious is not supposed to be the goal necessarily and we know that yes I mean Meg is always described to be the most prettiest of the March sisters but then you never really think that all these rich girls would envy her because she's pretty when they pay attention to her when she has like you know her original clothing on they're like oh well she's like you know this cute cute pretty but poor person but then you put a dress on her they're like oh my god I wish I was this person which I think is Marmee would kind of consider that value judgment very superficial the queer feeling did not pass away but she imagined herself acting new part of a fine lady I think this is something that would alarm Marmee as well mm-hmm yeah she does continue to do a lot of that for her for the rest of the evening even after interacting with Laurie I mean she's kind of cosplaying a little bit you know as a different person I like that she she wants to kind of fancy herself playing a different character but she's also constantly uncomfortable right I mean the dress is making is hurting her she's tripping over her dress she's and she has these earrings which I want to understand how they've attached them to her ears because they they say they've attached them with silk which I kind of want to understand how that works okay so they've attached them with silk and which implies that she they've not they don't have like holes to to go through her earlobes that's that's just a detail and then and laughing at the feeble jokes who tried to of a person who tried to be witty like yeah I think it's an interesting character moment I I love that in 94 they they put in this detail where she's just like I've been tripping on this dress the whole night it's it's it's terrible and then she has this makeup that she's trying to that she tries to to wipe off herself I don't know how they really related to makeup in the 19th century in during this time in some religious context it was not seen as a you know very proper thing yeah you know I remember there's this moment in the 1994 film when Maggie's like she's sitting in a corner and she's wiping off her lipstick yeah yeah I think around this time at least in over in the UK you were either a prostitute or in the theater if you had a lot of obvious makeup on I mean it didn't mean that you didn't wear makeup everyone still did wear makeup it just was very very understated because there was such an emphasis on the natural beauty of the person and and as someone writing in this time I think and I feel like the transcendentalist maybe not so toxic I don't know they would probably think that the natural beauty of the person should be what is emphasized right and so we can kind of I feel like we can see a hint of that with Marmee being like oh well a young girl should have flowers rather than pearls I know the Victorians in general believed in no makeup makeup and we can see that she kind of resists the root Sussan of Rouge we see earlier in the chapter she had something going on between Ned Moffat but it was very one-sided if I remember correctly Ned Moffat I barely even remember Ned Moffat yeah I don't feel like it features very much for her it doesn't really register for her I like that these guys are like making themselves stupid in front of her Louisa doesn't like any of these people awkward flirting I mean it's just kind of like people at parties just trying to like just act smart towards you and and of course she just is like playing this role and just kind of pretending to find all of this stuff really really funny I thought that was funny all right shall we move into Meg and Laurie's interaction yes when I find it I'm glad you came for I was afraid you wouldn't she said with her most grown-up air Jo wanted me to come and tell her how you looked so I did answered Laurie without turning his eyes upon her though he half smiled at her maternal tone what shall you tell her asked Meg full of curiosity to know his opinion of her yet feeling ill at ease with him for the first time I shall say I didn't know you for you look so grown up and unlike yourself I am afraid of you he said fumbling at his glow button how absurd of you the girls dressed me up for fun and I rather like it wouldn't chose there if she saw me said Meg bent on making him say whether he thought her improved or not yes I think she would return Laurie gravely don't you like me so asked Meg no I don't was the blunt reply why not in an anxious tone he glanced at her frizzled head bare shoulders and fantastically trim dress with an expression that abashed her more than his answer which had not a particle of his usual politeness about it I don't like fuss and feathers that was altogether too much from a lad younger than herself and Meg walked away saying petulantly you are the rudest boy I ever saw feeling very much ruffled she went and stood at a quiet window to cool her cheeks for the tight dress gave her an uncomfortable brilliant color as she stood there Major Lincoln passed by and a minute later she heard him saying to his mother they are making a fool of that little girl I wanted to see her but they have spoilt her entirely she's nothing but a doll tonight oh dear sight Meg I wish I'd been sensible and worn my own things then I should not have disgusted other people or felt so uncomfortable and ashamed myself she leaned her forehead on the cool pan and stood half hidden by the curtains never minding that her favorite waltz had begun till someone touched her and turning she saw Laurie looking penitent as he said with his very best bow and his head out please forgive my rudeness and come and dance with me I am afraid it will be too disagreeable to you said Meg trying to look offended and failing entirely not a bit of it I am dying to do it come I'll be good I don't like your gown but I think you are just splendid and he waved his hands as if words failed to express his admiration Meg smiled and relented and whispered as they stood waiting to catch the time take care my skirt don't trip you up it is the plague of my life and I was a goose to wear it pin it around your neck then it will be useful said Laurie looking down at the little blue boots which he evidently approved of away they went fleetly and gracefully for having practiced at home they were well matched and the bright young couple were a pleasant sight to see as they twirled merrily round and round feeling more friendly than ever after their small tiff we can see that people who kind of appreciated her sort of inner authenticity they just didn't really like her being dressed up and trying to be a person that she's not even if she gets a lot of attention on the whole I mean she kind of knows in herself that she's not being herself and then the people who care about her the most won't like it yes but it's interesting that Laurie is not unused to wealth I mean he probably interacts with people like the Moffat's all the time but what he appreciates about the March family is that they're not like that and it's probably a bit jarring for him for one of them to just suddenly be to look so different one of the things about Laurie which is sort of a contention in the fandom his obsession with the March family because maybe he wants to be part of the family then he marries Amy and all that but then there are these moments when he doesn't really understand the privilege that he has because around the time when Laurie is in his early 20s 19 when he's in the in college there are these moments when he buys you know nice clothes to himself and then Joe is sort of saying oh you spent your money on that kind of stuff yeah yes he's described to be very vain I don't think that's the right word he was 19th century metrosexual because oh yeah he's a young man who likes to take care of himself he likes to have nice looking clothes he likes men's fashion and he has you know perfumes I don't know men's skincare products from the 19th century yeah this really frustrates me people really judged Meg because of this chapter you know some people say that she's very vain and all of that it's not true but then nobody complains about Laurie being a 19th century metrosexual yeah no because I mean I think Laurie doesn't behave very much differently from her in later chapters right you know later on I Amy I think would really love this experience I think Amy would love getting dressed up I think Amy would get have the gown but then want to trim it in her own way and just like fashion her style herself in her own way I think and I think she would just not really care what people thought yeah I can see her kind of consenting to the experience but maybe dealing with it a bit differently I kind of understand what Laurie is thinking at this point in time and that you know she's they're just like oh it's just spoiling that these people that I like and I know on the other hand I think it's a bit unnecessary for him to to just say oh I don't I don't like your your outfit like that it's true that he doesn't quite understand the nuances of why Meg would want a night like this and why she would why she would want to try out wearing an outfit like this no I think he really needed an Amy to kind of smooth out these rough edges of him they're good friends but I feel like Laurie is not good to Meg in a lot of this book I think it's a little unfair to her in this chapter I think in general he's not good to her I think she also needed a bit of the the wake up to the fact that you know this is not a world world where she belongs right so I can kind of see it a little both ways Laurie was not good to her and I think continues to not be very good to her in other chapters but I think Meg does need this experience to understand who she is and what she values and and who her friends really are yes yeah and they even adapted this little bit of dialogue pin it around your neck yes I remember that in 94 well he likes her shoes that's nice I think when I was younger I read I read that she had these blue boots and I was very confused because I didn't know how typically Victorian shoes would look so I was just like why why is she wearing boots with a nice with a with a gown because I didn't realize people don't wear like high heels the way they look now they were nice shoes but they were still boots and you know they would have been laced with I don't know ribbon or something like that can't help feel I'm thinking about how Amy would deal with this experience later on we've talked about Amy right but because Amy is all has has always had this sense of to taste but I think she would have dressed Meg very differently in this situation I think she would have kept Meg very beautiful but even more modest yeah giving her a dress that fits oh yeah right right yeah of course of course the sisters always prioritize each other's beauty and comfort we talked about the chapter course where Amy dresses up Jo and with a shawl and makes her very presentable like you know if Amy would be living in today's world she could be like a fashion designer yeah yeah yeah I think we already know Amy is very artistic and has a very good sense of aesthetics and and when she dresses herself she never really experiences Meg's sense of self-consciousness about herself right I think Amy as far as I can remember like yes she envies a wealth and nice things but when she gets to dress herself she's just like okay this is what I've got to work with and I will get it get this outfit to the point where I feel okay in it I remember she when she dresses herself when she's like in in Europe and she has to go to different events she's just like well ideally I would choose this fabric but that was too expensive so I trimmed it this way and this way and now this feels good I mean I really respected Amy reading those chapters because she knows how to work with what she's given she never really even compares herself that much now mind you she's with at March at that point as far as I can remember I mean she never experiences this sort of like oh I wish I had you know these other things like like you guys not quite in the same way as as Meg what you said about Meg having a money complex I think that might be one of those reasons we know that Amy wants to marry a rich man but I don't think she really has that kind of money complex because he really works around things I don't remember the chapter but I think she was trying to paint something and then she ran out of paper or something and then she just tried to figure out how to how to make things better with some other materials that she had took another angle the things so that's really nice about it Amy I think she's very resourceful mind you she's had some time to grow up because I mean we still have a limes incident to go through we still have the book burning stuff and yeah she yeah she's a very interesting character and I think when she kind of gets the idea like okay I need to rely on what I have and I'm going to make the best of of the situation and once she kind of gets that idea then she's ready to go I admire that it's a really good good feature to have I don't want to say that Meg is a bit of a people pleaser I think the problem with Meg at this point is that she has hard time to say no yes absolutely a lot of people have that I have had that same especially if you are being sort of almost pressured or being manipulated by other people then you just say yes to things as you want to please them yeah I think that's one of her struggles that she tries to overcome