The following is a clip from a conversation I recorded with Donald Robertson,
A cognitive behavioral psychotherapist and renowned expert on Stoicism.
Donald specializes in bridging ancient philosophical wisdom with the modern psychology to enhance resilience,
Emotional clarity,
And well-being.
Enjoy.
In my readings of the Stoics,
I've seen a lot of amazing examples of reframing misfortune.
And I think Epictetus talks about,
You know,
Like,
Say you spill something on the floor,
This is a small price to pay for peace of mind.
And I've become,
I think,
Quite skilled at this way of kind of transmuting setbacks,
Obstacles,
Misfortune into,
You know,
It could have been worse.
And,
You know,
Just finding the benefit,
The silver lining in it.
I'm just wondering,
I sometimes wonder if,
If the,
If this could ever go too far,
You know,
Where like every negative thing,
I'm just like feeling okay about it,
Feeling good about it.
And like,
Am I,
Am I actually becoming blind to negative things?
Seneca talks about going even further than that.
He's got,
There's a bit instead,
I mean,
Seneca's a terrible role model,
Right?
The,
The,
Uh,
And so,
You know,
I'm not saying this is what he was actually,
But in the,
The letters to Lysalius,
At one point he kind of makes out that when he gets really into attending lectures of philosophy,
He says he comes out of them and he's wishing for misfortune,
Almost like he's going,
He's kind of going,
Bring it on.
Why?
He's still kind of psyched with stoicism.
He's like,
Yeah,
Like,
You know,
Bring on some catastrophe so I can deal with it,
Which seems a bit weird,
Right?
But you can kind of,
Like,
You totally,
If you read Stoic text and you get really into it,
You can,
You can imagine,
And these guys that,
Like,
Attending lectures where they're,
They're,
They're,
You know,
You imagine if you were attending lectures by Epictetus,
Maybe you would walk out of it and say,
Yeah,
Bring it on,
You know,
And I hope I get played or something like that.
Like,
This is crazy.
But Seneca talks like that at one point.
Um,
I don't know.
Could it go too far?
I don't,
I've never really seen it,
Um,
Become a negative thing,
To be honest.
What you're talking about is similar to what we call in therapy,
Decatastrophizing.
Uh,
It's like,
Uh,
I haven't read it.
This is my reminder on my arm.
I don't know if you can see that.
In Greek,
It says,
Um,
It's a very early Stoic quote.
Uh,
It says,
Um,
Uh,
Which is,
Uh,
Something that Kratos,
The Cynic philosopher said to Zeno,
The founder of Stoicism.
It just means nothing terrible has happened to you.
It's decatastrophizing.
Why Epictetus talks about one of his Stoic heroes,
Uh,
A guy called Agrippinus,
Why he was a Stoic,
Um,
Uh,
Member of the Stoic opposition.
Why he,
He says that this guy used to write letters to himself,
Uh,
Like the Stoic letters of consolation,
But he'd address them to himself where he would what they use as eulogize,
Like he would praise catastrophes.
So if he was sent into exile,
He'd be like,
Oh,
This is a good opportunity to have a picnic in the countryside.
Like,
So he kind of turned everything into,
He'd write a letter,
Like actually put in the hours,
Like took the effort to sit down and write a letter,
Kind of reframing situations to as not as like,
I'm not encouraging positive thinking by the way.
Positive thinking is like a dirty word now in modern psychotherapy because it's,
We,
We know like,
Um,
What people often mean by positive thinking is kind of avoidant,
Um,
Or it's narcissistic.
So generally it's an avoidant or an unhealthy strategy.
There's a difference between positive thinking,
This kind of Pollyannaism,
Like not being realistic and spotting genuine opportunities,
Uh,
And what seems at first like a misfortune.
Someone loses their job,
Right?
But they might think,
Yeah,
It gives me an opportunity to start more in business.
That's not self-deceptive.
Maybe that's true.
Like it's just another perspective on events,
Right?
It's a valid,
Like a more constructive way of looking at the facts.
And I think that's what the Stoics are describing.
So I suppose the safeguard against it would be,
Yeah,
It could go wrong if it lapsed into what therapists call Pollyannaism,
Which would be kind of positive thinking that's unrealistic or irrational.
But if you can stay true to the facts of the situation,
But find opportunity in them,
Then I've never actually seen that go wrong,
Like in 25 years of therapy feeling so far.
