Episode Twelve: The Interview - Eddie Nunns

Was there a sense at that time that it was primarily affecting the gay population?

Oh absolutely,

It was called the gay cancer.

From the very beginning it was like the gay cancer.

And that's one of the reasons why it didn't get a lot of support or funding or anything because it's sort of like,

Who cares?

Who cares if these people die?

I was an executive,

Had a career in the creative world,

Fashion and creative world.

It sort of just happened like it was fate.

After school I went to Dallas and I gave myself a week to find a job and I got a job on the fifth day I was there.

And I came back to San Antonio where I was born and raised,

Where I grew up,

And packed my little apartment up and drove to Dallas and spent 34 years career doing that.

It was a great career,

A lot of fun,

Traveled the world.

You know I was this green kid from South Central Texas and I had been exposed to probably more than most kids,

But not to the degree that I got when I got this job and spent all those years doing it.

I think when I kind of look back on my life,

I had an astrologist one time tell me,

She said,

You know you have four planets in Leo,

Like just be really grateful that your rising sign is Capricorn because if you didn't have that earth sign to ground you,

You would have been a mess,

A total mess.

And she said it's clear that your Capricorn rising took over because you were so good in your job and your career and all that kind of stuff.

And so I think about that,

But I think about the passionate side that Leo brings into my life and how it has been a bit of a mess and a bit chaotic,

But all in all I have lived an incredibly fortunate life and so I can't complain.

I came from a blended family.

Both my father and my mother were married before.

My dad lost his wife.

She sort of died quite subtly after surgery and left him with three young girls.

My mom was married and she had an infant and a toddler and her husband left her.

They both moved to San Antonio and they both met each other.

They both were working at the same newspaper.

My mother was a fashion illustrator and my dad worked in the photo engraving.

He was superintendent of the photo engraving department and that's how they kind of met.

They also went to the same church.

So everybody was trying to fix them up.

And so they got married and then they had me.

So I came from the splendid family and we did have a significant church life.

We went to a Presbyterian church,

Which was very moderate and perfect for me personally.

There wasn't a lot of Helen Brimstone or guilt or any of that kind of stuff that some religions try to inflict on you.

I remember that church family very fondly.

I didn't walk away from it with a lot of dogma hammered into me.

It was pretty much the basics,

You know,

Love one another,

Do unto others as you would have done to you,

You know,

All that sort of basic stuff.

So I think it provided a really nice foundation for me growing up.

And then eventually I sort of steered away from organized religion.

When I moved to Dallas,

I joined a men's chorus that was pretty well known in Dallas.

It was a large group,

A great community of guys.

You know,

We met weekly for rehearsals and we had retreats that we would go on and we would have these performances and concerts.

It was such a great experience for me.

And when I was in San Antonio,

I was with a symphony chorus.

So it was sort of the next progression for me going from symphony chorus to more of a pop kind of men's chorus.

And every year they had a auction to raise money for the general fund.

This was in March of 1985.

And I volunteered to be a waiter at the event.

And I was basically just going and taking drink orders and providing drinks for people who were shopping the silent auction tables.

And so I very distinctly remember I saw my good friend John Thomas,

And he was standing next to a guy that I'd never seen before.

He was a blonde guy.

And I walked up to them.

They were talking.

And John gave me a hug.

And then he said,

I want you to meet Mike.

And so I said,

Very nice to meet you.

And then I turned to him and I said,

What can I get you?

And he said,

You can get me a gin and tonic to start with and we'll talk about the rest later.

And so I turned around and walked around and I was like,

Oh,

Big flirt here,

Big super flirt here.

And so the next day was a Monday and I happened to be scheduled to be working at a photo studio,

A large photo studio doing some art direction.

And I'll never forget this.

They had an intercom system that they would page people when a telephone call came in for them.

And suddenly I hear my name paged and it says,

You know,

Eddie Nunn's line two,

Eddie Nunn's line two.

And before I pick up the phone,

I'm like,

This is going to be my car.

And I picked up the phone and it was my car.

You know,

When I think back on it,

It was a really interesting dynamic because maybe I was just sort of young and too stupid to know it.

But I have a lot of self-confidence professionally.

I didn't always have a lot of self-confidence personally.

And he was such a big name and like such a catch that I never felt insecure about that.

It was really interesting.

Like I could always stand my own with him.

He was quite a smart ass.

It was a really interesting dynamic for me because I remember all of his friends kind of saying when they met me and they could see how I could handle myself.

They were all sort of like,

Oh,

You know,

He's finally found his match.

It was very passionate,

Which means that it was incredible highs at times and then also some pretty good fights.

I wouldn't say the fighting happened that much.

It happened a little more towards the towards the end.

But I never I have never felt more protected in any relationship.

He was also big kidder,

Like some what not particularly nice.

I'm not kidding.

One time we were at a restaurant and we were with a group of friends and I got the hives and he called me spot at the table in front of everybody.

And then I had this chipped tooth that had happened when I was front tooth that had happened when I was a kid.

And he used to call me snaggle tooth.

And I used to get really mad and I said,

I'm going to go have it repaired.

I'm going to have it fixed.

He says,

Don't ever have it fixed.

It's what gives you character.

So he was a pretty hard teaser.

And but he had such a charismatic personality.

It was hard to be,

You know.

Too angry at him for too long.

No one in our course,

Close circle had ever been diagnosed with AIDS.

So it wasn't it was still sort of far off.

But I do remember this is kind of morbidly funny,

But we would get little bits of news out about it.

And in one at one point they said,

Oh,

It was poppers.

It was a nitrate that was causing it or whatever.

And so everybody says,

Oh,

You can't do poppers.

Or then the word would come out.

Oh,

People who have AIDS have a coded tongue.

And I can remember driving to a chorale event and we were caravanning.

And a friend of mine,

I can remember looking in the rearview mirror and seeing him sticking his tongue out in the mirror to check his tongue to see if he had a coded tongue.

I mean,

Like people were just,

You know,

You just kind of like,

OK,

Well,

Do I have it or,

You know,

What's going on?

So it was definitely something that was in the back of our mind.

But you didn't really live.

I mean,

You know,

You just kind of went on about your life.

Was there a sense at that time that it was primarily affecting the gay population?

Oh,

Absolutely.

It was called the gay cancer from the very beginning.

It was like the gay cancer.

And that's one of the reasons why it didn't get a lot of support or funding or anything,

Because it's sort of like,

Who cares?

Who cares if these people die?

Mike was a little bit of a hypochondriac,

And so occasionally he would say,

Oh,

I don't feel well or whatever.

But there were a couple of times I can remember laying in bed and him being asleep and like he would have night sweats.

And I don't know where I came up with this,

But I would start laying my hands on him at night while he was asleep and trying to heal him.

And I don't like I said,

I don't know where that came from.

I've never been never read anything about it.

I've never you know,

It just wasn't on my radar,

But it just came kind of naturally.

And he would get better for a little bit and then he would start saying,

Oh,

I don't feel well.

But the really strange thing was in November,

We went to Acapulco with a couple of friends and we partied and played and swam and just had a great time.

And he never,

Never appeared to feel unwell at all the entire time.

So I couldn't quite get a grasp on what was going on.

And then in December,

I had a job that took me to Rio de Janeiro for a fashion shoot.

Distinctly remember him sitting in front of my fireplace wrapped in a blanket.

And he says,

I hate the cold.

I hate winter.

I hate the cold.

And he was a sun god.

I mean,

He loved being in the sun.

Always had a perpetual tan.

He did not like the idea that I was leaving,

But it was my job and I had to do it.

And so,

You know,

I said goodbye to him and got on the plane the next morning and flew off and started doing my job.

And once again,

This was before cell phone.

So you couldn't access people really well.

And I had to use the hotel phone to be able to call him.

I tried calling him a couple of times and couldn't get in.

And then finally I called his business and I said,

I'm trying to reach Mike.

It's Eddie.

And they're like,

Oh,

He hasn't been all week.

He's been sick.

I kept calling him,

Calling him,

Calling him.

And he finally answered the phone and I said,

What's wrong?

And he sounded really bad.

And something inside of me just sort of said,

This is more serious than a cold.

I told him before that I told him,

I said,

I'm going to call John Thomas because I knew John Thomas had a key to his apartment.

John called one of our other mutual good friends and the two of them went over to his apartment,

Let them in,

Let himself let themselves in.

And he was blue from lack of oxygen.

And so they called an ambulance.

They rushed him off to the hospital.

He actually had the pneumocystis,

Which is the pneumonia that people with AIDS get.

Anyway,

I didn't know any of this.

They check him into the hospital.

I guess it was maybe a day or so later.

John calls me and he says,

You're going to need to start figuring out how to get home.

This is serious.

Mike is not in good shape.

I flew home and John and William picked me up at the airport.

I got into the car.

I was sitting in the backseat with John and I just said,

What is it?

And he said,

It's AIDS.

And I remember sort of laying down in John's lap and just kind of weeping.

So we got to the hospital and he was an ICU and they allowed me to go in and he was still semi lucid and awake.

So I just held his hand and I said,

I'm here.

I'm back.

His vice president of the company knew his family,

Knew his parents.

And Mike had said when he was still available,

Still able to talk and stuff,

He said,

Do not call my family.

I do not want my family here.

He did not have a close relationship with them.

But this vice president called the family and they immediately came to Dallas.

They were not accepting of me.

They had never met me,

But they knew what my relationship was and they were like,

We're not going to have anything to do with this.

So they completely shunned me.

He continued to decline and his family was taking all the visitation time.

I think it was something like you could get 15 minutes of visitation time,

Maybe three to four times a day.

And they were going in and taking the full 15 minutes up so that I wouldn't have any visitation time with them.

And there was a head nurse at the hospital who was gay and he pulled me aside and he said,

I understand what the situation is.

And he said,

We're going to give you your own visitation time so that you don't have to share it with the family and you can take as long as you want.

And I remember the night that he died.

He died early in the morning,

But I was sleeping on the floor in the waiting room and somebody came in and said,

He's gone.

And they said,

Do you want to go in and see him one last time?

And I said,

No,

I don't.

I don't want to see him.

You know,

I'd rather remember him being alive.

And so then the service services were being planned and my mother and father flew up and my brother was there and we went to the service and the family made sure that I was at least 10 rows away from them.

And it was a really painful thing because I had never I had not lost anyone close to me.

My grandparents were still alive.

I mean,

I'd never lost anyone.

So this was my first significant death to deal with.

And I can remember being at the graveside.

And once again,

I was kind of pushed to the back and my dad had his arm around me and he said,

Come on,

I'm going to take you up front where you belong.

And I said,

No,

Dad,

I'm good where I am with you and mom and Randy.

And I don't need to prove to anybody what my relationship was like.

I don't need to be up there up front.

That's not what this is about.

And then I remember a really,

Incredibly painful moment where they finally closed the coffin up and they were going to lower it into the ground.

And I went over and put my hand on it.

And I was just like,

I could not let go.

It's just like it's time for me to walk away and get into the car,

Into the limo and drive off.

And I was just like,

It was so hard to walk away.

So I was in this really unbelievable state of peace.

I don't know.

I would get up in the mornings and I would go walk,

Take my walks like I did at 6 a.

M.

But shortly after he was buried,

I you know,

This is once again,

This is 19.

Well,

It was 1986 because he died in January.

And this was before cell phones or voicemail.

You had voice recorders that were hooked up to you with your phone.

For those of you who haven't experienced that,

You know,

You would hear your phone ring and then you would hear your recorder switch on and you would run and you would listen to see if it was somebody that you actually wanted to talk to.

And if so,

You would pick up the phone.

Anyway,

I don't know if it was the day after or two days after or when it was,

But I was in a deep sleep and it was between it was around three to three fifteen in the morning.

And I suddenly hear the recorder on the phone click on.

But the phone never rang.

It was just the recorder.

And I sat up and I was like looking at it and I was and then I would turn the volume up and I would listen really carefully to see if there was some message coming through.

And the first time it happened,

I didn't really think too much about it.

But then it started happening every night between three and four in the morning.

I would get woken up hearing this recording and I just said,

This is Mike.

And he's trying to communicate with me.

I mean,

The time between three and four is considered the time in the morning when you were best connect to the other side,

The other world.

And I remember sharing the story with my mom and my mom said,

Oh,

You know,

It's just a power surge.

I'm like,

Oh,

A power surge every night.

OK,

And let's just say it is a power surge.

What's causing that power surge?

What kind of energy is creating that power surge?

Anyway,

It was a very comforting experience for me.

It was nothing that I it was nothing that I was scared of or afraid or thought,

Oh,

This is spooky or anything like that.

It was just something that was very comforting.

And when I would wake up,

I'm like,

Oh,

There's Mike trying to communicate.

Also during this time,

I kept having visions of him,

Which were pretty disturbing for me.

I would be like in the grocery store and I'd be walking down the main aisle and I would just happen to glance down one of the other aisles and I would see him walking with his back turned to me.

And I would like stop and my heart would beat out of my chest and I would run down the aisle and I would look for him and I couldn't find him.

Or I would be driving in my car close to his house and I would see him walking his dog and I would like slam on the brake and turn around and drive around the corner and look for him.

And I couldn't find him.

And I just kept having these visions.

Then I do remember a very significant dream with him where I literally felt like I had spent two or three hours with him.

And it was a very loving dream.

He was,

I mean,

Like we were holding each other and I was saying,

You know,

I really miss you.

And he said,

I miss you too,

But you need to know I'm OK and you need to go on about your life.

And I remember waking up the next morning and feeling really melancholy.

And it was like it was beautiful because I felt like I had been with him again.

But it was sad because the reality was I knew he wasn't physically here.

All of that was kind of going on for the first year.

And I was traveling once again and I just kind of threw myself into work.

And I was in New York at one point working with a photographer who was very spiritual.

And she said,

You know,

I want you to meet this clairvoyant that is a friend of mine that I go to.

And he's like,

Amazing.

So I made an appointment with this clairvoyant.

I was on my way there the afternoon before I was to leave to go fly back to Dallas and I got stuck in horrible traffic.

And once again,

No cell phone.

I couldn't call him.

I had to wait.

It was got way past the appointment time.

I finally told the driver,

I said,

Just take me back to the hotel.

And I was devastated.

I so wanted to have this appointment.

So I got back to the hotel.

I called this clairvoyant and I said,

I'm so sorry I missed the appointment.

I got stuck in traffic and I'm leaving tomorrow to go back to Dallas.

He said,

Not a problem.

You just you get back to Dallas.

I'm going to give you my address.

I want you to just sign your name so I have something tactile to hold on to.

And we can have this session long distance on the phone.

And he immediately starts talking about this giant tree in my yard and you have such a beautiful house.

Why would you think about selling it?

I was thinking about selling my house.

And I did have this like 200 year old charter oak in my backyard.

So he started it off by immediately making me feel like he knew what he was doing.

And then he said,

There is someone that you've lost,

Really significant person that you've lost.

And it's like feels like your brother or and you're like alter egos.

And that's the first thing that sort of set chills up and down my spine because Mike,

When we were out at social events,

Would always introduce me as his alter ego.

This is my alter ego.

So I said to him,

I said,

Well,

That's my partner who passed.

His name is Mike.

And he said,

Do you want to talk to Mike?

And I sort of got freaked out a little bit.

And I just said,

Oh,

I don't know if I'm ready for this.

He was silent on the phone and then he started laughing.

So Mike didn't want to have anything to do with this.

He will talk to me a little bit,

But he he's not wanting to have anything to do with this.

So anyway,

He's he's kind of laughing a couple of times.

He says,

Mike wants me to tell you that you're he thinks you're doing a great job with going on about your life.

And those couple of guys that you dated are OK,

But they'll never compare with him.

And I started laughing because I thought,

Oh,

My,

That is so his personality.

And then as we're talking,

This guy says,

Mike is tapping on his front tooth,

Something about a front tooth,

Something about like a chip front tooth.

And that's when I lost it.

Oh,

My God.

He's really he's really talking to Mike.

I think it was the first time in my life that I finally sort of had to accept that there is very little distance between.

Us in the three dimensional world and what we call the other side,

For lack of better terms,

I think it was those things that finally I had to accept the fact that we as humans living on this planet,

We are not alone and that we have a host of angels or spirits that surround us and are looking after us,

Which is a very comforting thought to have.

This has been episode 12 of Bite Sized Blessings,

The podcast all about the magic and spirit that surrounds us.

If only we open our eyes to it.

And whether you choose to listen to our bite sized offerings for that five minutes of freedom in your day or the longer interviews,

We're grateful you're here.

I'd like to thank Eddie Nuns for sharing his story today,

As well as the creators of the music used by Low Sound,

Kevin MacLeod,

Music,

Elle Files and Sasha End.

For complete attribution,

Please see the Bite Sized Blessings Web site at Bite Sized Blessings Dotcom.

And remember,

That's bite spelled B Y T E on the Web site.

You'll find links to other episodes as well as to books,

Music and change makers.

I think we'll lift and inspire you.

Thank you for listening.

And here's my one request.

Be like Eddie and never give up on love.

So.