72. How Love Can Grow: Tips For A Healthier, Happier Relationship

Every relationship,

Certainly our partner,

Our husband,

Our wife,

Is meant to be a relationship that is constantly growing and constantly fulfilling us in greater and greater ways.

In times when you find yourself compromised,

Remember that that isn't the path to any kind of true fulfillment.

There's a time for compromise,

But you should never compromise your beliefs and certainly not sacrifice the love you deserve.

Welcome to the Spiritually Hungry Podcast,

Episode 72 from sunny California.

Foggy,

Sunny California.

Smoggy and sunny.

We just offended all of our California listeners.

So this episode is going to be a little bit different since you never really get to the questions.

I thought we would,

We've collected a bunch on relationships and you and I are going to do a Q&A with each other.

Yes,

I'm very excited to spend some time talking to you about relationships.

I had the thought as we were preparing for this podcast that you do this very well and I wonder how many couples out there do is really talk about the relationship.

And I know there's some people who don't like talking about the relationship,

But it's really important,

Right?

If you don't,

You know,

A person's in business,

He or she knows they always have to be talking about it,

Thinking about it,

Assessing it,

Seeing how it gets better.

Unfortunately,

Too often in relationships,

People close by in the good times and sometimes in the bad times either because they don't want to talk about it,

It's too painful to talk about it,

But nothing gets better unless it's addressed.

I mean,

Full disclosure,

I think with my injury,

You know,

I think there's been a different dynamic in our relationship in terms of my independence,

Right?

And my need for you to help me physically.

And that even that one small difference does affect,

I think,

The whole relationship and people don't.

And,

You know,

For me,

I'm always looking at every area of my life and checking is it still working for me in an exceptional way because I always believe in optimal everything,

Right?

So if I notice something different in my health or I notice something different in my sleep or I notice something different in my relationship or my work ethic or my study habits,

Whatever it is,

I always stop and say,

Okay,

I need to get clarity on why there is a change,

Right?

And sometimes it's not a big deal.

Sometimes it's temporary and sometimes it's actually the beginning of something that could be bigger.

So I think that,

And we're focusing on relationships today,

But I think it's really,

Really important for people to do that in their own lives.

And of course,

It's related to emotional intelligence.

I've been practicing this for decades and I think I had to learn to do that because of the eating disorder I had.

You know,

I had been so shut down from what I thought and what I felt and what I believed or I didn't believe that I didn't even know who I was.

And so for me to really recognize myself and learn to love myself,

I had to be able to practice this.

And it's something that has served me well in every area of my life because I'd be lost without it.

And I think unfortunately people really become good at the one thing.

They become good at this process with the one thing that's natural to them.

So if somebody,

If business comes easy to them,

They'll apply this kind of modality to that.

But then all the other areas in their lives are like,

Oh,

I'm just not good at that.

Or that's the area of my tycoon or my correction or what I need to work on.

When in fact,

We're meant to really look at every part of our lives,

Every relationship we have.

You know,

Children's a great example.

If that relationship changes as it will,

Right?

When children become older,

The role of being needed to take care of,

Being taken care of,

They actually need to start to think in an empathetic way for their parents.

How can I now be of service and do?

And if you're not constantly looking at the little things and the ways and the nuances of things that are changing,

Then you'll settle at some point.

And I think it's a very basic and important question.

Every person in a relationship,

Certainly,

But also anybody thinking of entering into a relationship has to ask themselves,

How good am I?

How good are we in talking about the relationship?

Because again,

Usually these conversations don't come up when everybody feels everything's amazing,

Right?

It's something happened.

It has to be something tremendous.

It could be something.

And really ask yourself that question.

How good are we as a couple talking about things that are not,

That we,

One of us or both of us see not working in the relationship?

And I think it is surprising,

I think that if you think about the,

I know you obviously helped so many couples.

But if you think about them,

How,

What percentage of those couples that you've,

That you've helped,

Would you say have a very good way of speaking between the two of them about their relationship?

And especially in those moments of challenge?

Well,

The first part is that you need to find a communication style that works for both people.

And that's something that needs to be intentional and needs to be decided early in the relationship because you're not going to come together and automatically have the same style.

But what I've realized actually in the last couple of weeks is that I think people give up very quickly on being able to express their point of view for two reasons.

One,

They're not always clear on what they're thinking.

They know what they're feeling.

And of course,

Feelings aren't enough.

You have to then assess your feelings and say,

Okay,

What is this really,

What's behind it?

What's the desire and the want behind my emotion or my needs?

But the other part is when our partner doesn't understand what we're saying or hear us,

We either get frustrated.

We give up.

We resent them.

It can be an array of things.

And when that happens time and time again,

Even if you found a communication style that works,

Right?

Like let's say we've decided that we're not going to be yellers and we're not going to shut down,

But we're going to find,

We found the hour that works for us in a day when we know there aren't other triggers or other stressors.

And even if we are healthy in that area of how to communicate well,

The next part is again,

As things get more difficult in life or as we have more responsibility,

I think that that second part of,

Well,

They just don't hear me.

They don't understand me in this moment,

Right?

That can create problems all over again.

So I think that's the reason that a lot of couples aren't successful in that area besides the style.

So we'll be dancing the question,

What percent did you have the couples that you've worked with?

So few,

I'd say 20% is probably an optimistic number even.

So this is a really,

Right.

I mean,

If I look at the percentage of my first experience,

Right.

It would probably be closer to 10%.

People come to you,

By the way,

When they're in trouble,

Right?

Yes.

So that's the,

But I wonder,

I really wondered,

I'm sure again,

For our listeners,

I think this is a very important question.

By the way,

If you don't have any issues currently in your relationship,

This is probably the best time to have a dinner with your spouse,

Partner and say,

By the way,

How do we resolve?

You know,

What is our,

What is our communication process?

And again,

Because I think so few couples have a healthy way of doing it,

Number one.

And number two,

It's difficult.

I mean,

I can tell you what are related,

You know,

We're blessed,

We're married 24 years and we,

For the most part,

Have a very positive communication strategy.

We work,

You certainly always make sure that we talk about the smallest things and the biggest things.

But I think the one thing you said,

Which is so important,

That perseverance.

It most likely will not go well if it's an important conversation the first time.

And if it's an important conversation,

It most likely won't go well the second time.

And the question is,

What is the commit?

I think,

You know,

Unfortunately sometimes people aren't just that committed in a deep emotional way.

So they,

It's not even worth their effort and the emotional strain of trying once,

Twice,

Three times,

Four times to get that conversation right.

The only thing I'd add to that,

And I think that this is also what people expect their partner to do for them.

So they,

Everybody wants to be heard,

Right?

But if you,

They're not able to hear you from many different,

It could be ego,

But also it could be that you just don't see your point of view.

They might be stressed,

They might not have time,

Right?

It might be other things going on.

Right.

But I think the,

The,

The importance here has to be that you as an individual,

If you have something that you're really feeling that you feel you want to say and you want to share and bring your partner in on,

Go back to yourself and say,

Okay,

How can I say this in a different way?

How can I get clear about what's going on in my mind,

In my soul,

In my heart to be able to better express it?

Because I think often we expect our partner to help us get clear or we expect them to just hear us automatically.

And if you're not successful,

Like you said,

Don't shut down,

Don't give up,

But really go back within and say,

Okay,

Where's,

Am I really clear?

Right?

And once you get really clear,

I feel that you'll be able to better articulate what it is that you desire in the relationship.

I think that a lot of it also is people of course may love each other,

But they might feel lonely in the relationship.

There are an array of reasons,

Maybe there's another child that's coming to the mix or there's a more responsibility in the office or,

And it's not that the partner wants necessarily to give less time or energy,

But that's just what happens.

So if the other can say,

Okay,

I'm really clear about how I feel.

Right?

And so what are some ways we can find a solution to this without the blame of,

You know,

It's your fault that,

You know,

We're in this situation.

I wanted to add really three points to what you said.

One is that.

We're going to get to the questions.

One is that,

But this is really,

I really think this is so important.

You know,

Having witnessed you working with so many couples,

This is,

This is maybe one of the most important foundations of a relationship that has the chance of really continuing to thrive.

One that you,

Before you go into this conversation,

Be,

Try to take the time really,

Because usually we're reactive.

He or she just did something that upset me,

I'm going to talk about it.

That is probably the worst time and the worst way.

So to really take the time,

Because it's really important for the individual bringing up the conversation who probably is experiencing some sort of hiccup in the relationship to be really clear,

Why am I feeling this?

Where is this coming from?

Really,

Really important to really take the time.

That would say that's number one.

And the second thing you said,

Which is so important is how you do it,

How you do it,

How do you do it in a way that they will hear you.

And I'll give an example where just this morning,

I don't think our kids mind anymore that we mentioned their names.

So we can,

We can guess that they're not listening to every single episode.

Well,

Hopefully they are and hopefully they're not.

So our oldest daughter did something in relation to our youngest sort of that I didn't think was the right way to behave towards her.

And I raised my voice and I told her,

And then afterwards she had,

She got really upset about it.

Okay.

And I spoke and I said to you,

And I was,

I have to say,

I want to pat myself on the back.

I'm very happy that at least in this regard,

I come to you and really,

I really want to hear,

You know,

Did I do it in the,

Did I do the right thing?

Did I say the right,

Was it the right thing to say?

We both do that with each other.

And it's really amazing that we can check ourselves about our parenting skills and our relationship with our children.

And,

And we can be objective,

I think,

In giving the advice or the response.

Right.

So you said two things.

You said,

Yeah,

It was the right thing to say,

Right?

Because this is a pattern that we're seeing that we really need to address,

But probably the way that it was delivered was probably not the best way.

And hopefully later this afternoon,

I'll correct that.

And that you needed more context to your response.

It wasn't just about this moment,

It was about other things that you're seeing as a theme in your behavior.

Exactly.

But I think that that second part,

Right,

Those two are so important.

Really take the time to understand what it really am I feeling?

Where's it stemming from?

How much of it also,

By the way,

Is something I'm going through that is,

That is separate from my partner.

How much of it is affected by them?

Really,

To really take the time.

Don't just rush into a conversation.

And not just don't rush,

But really take a lot of time to really come to clarity for yourself.

The second thing,

Which is how,

And that is,

Again,

Almost as important,

Because if you're delivering the right message in the wrong way or delivering the wrong message in the right way,

Both of those won't work and certainly won't help the relationship thrive.

The third idea,

And this is the third idea,

That most likely we are all humans,

We all have ego,

We don't like to be told that we're doing something wrong,

Even if in some deep way we know,

Or even in some obvious ways we know.

The likelihood of the first conversation going well is very,

Very minimal.

Very,

Very minimal.

Well,

Because the person's probably still hurt by something.

There's emotion,

Right?

Well,

The receiver,

I'm talking about the receiver as well,

Right?

Yes.

So,

Who might not even be aware that you're feeling this?

Right.

And to add another complicating element is that often in that first conversation,

Something new will be said that will trigger another thing that also has to be handled sort of on the side.

Well,

The partner usually will be defensive,

Right?

And so what happens is the brain's like,

Wait a second,

You have a grievance with me?

Well,

You know,

I have my own list.

Let me think.

Oh yeah,

That thing you did yesterday,

Let's talk about that.

I wasn't going to bring it up,

But now that you're bringing this up,

I mean,

That's really how the beginning of the argument escalates when people come together.

And back to what you're saying before,

If we don't have perseverance in our relationships to go through not only the difficulty,

It would be great if it was one difficult conversation.

No,

It's a difficult conversation that most likely gets more difficult when you do it.

And then the second conversation probably is more,

Maybe by the third thing start calming down a little bit and maybe by the fourth.

But that perseverance,

Again,

Unfortunately,

If you let it go,

Which is probably the easiest short-term solution,

Relationship cannot thrive if you're not able to really consistently both address in the right way and with perseverance the issues that come up.

And I think,

Again,

This is such an important,

Important element of a thriving relationship.

And unfortunately,

One that I know you've seen through you,

I've seen most,

I would say,

We can definitely see most couples,

Maybe the same majority of couples do not have a healthy resolution process in their relationship.

The thing is that I really,

This is it,

So don't count her necessarily.

So I want to get to the questions.

I think the other big thing I see in relationships that are starting to decline is that they don't realize how urgent and immediate and necessary it is for them to get on board and have a plan to elevate their relationship.

And I say,

It's not unbearable now.

And I even promised them,

Which I don't like to do,

I'm like,

If you continue in this vein,

I can tell you this is what it's going to look like in a year from now.

Not because I even,

I've just seen this pattern.

And you're almost always right.

And also science backs it up,

Psychology backs it up.

There are facts of like,

When certain behaviors start to show themselves in the relationship,

It's because so much damage has happened and it's time to get on board.

So before you take this opportunity to thank you for being in our relationship,

That partner that pushes always for the conversation,

Not just the first conversation,

The second,

The third,

The fourth,

Et cetera.

Thanks,

Faye.

You're welcome.

Yeah.

I don't know if I should give a little background.

No,

Go ahead.

No,

I don't care.

No,

I was just thinking because like I said,

I've been,

I've had this injury,

I've been in recovery and healing now for eight weeks and I did not have clarity about certain things that I was noticing until a week and a half ago.

Right.

And I tried to have those conversations before they weren't so successful.

You wanted to receive them,

But it just,

It wasn't happening.

And then when I had the clarity,

Right,

Because I kept going back to myself,

That advice I just gave to our listeners,

Okay,

He didn't hear me.

I know he wanted to hear me,

But he didn't hear me and I don't feel heard.

So what is it?

And then I kept asking the question,

I finally got the clarity and then I came back and we had that conversation.

It was a beautiful conversation.

You did hear me.

I felt heard and we felt even closer and it took our relationship to the next level.

And by the way,

When I say next level,

Like this is what we do all the time with each other,

Right?

Next level,

Next level,

Next level.

And that's how you have an amazingly strong relationship.

So I'll just add one more thing before you hit the question.

Is that like,

You just said that I don't want it,

Don't want it to be missed.

That the closeness you then feel having gone through that roller coaster of conferences and didn't go as well as it should have or whatever.

I mean,

Maybe it shouldn't have,

Right?

That roller coaster.

And then at the end,

If you do,

If you are successful and you will be successful if you persevere and you both care about the relationship is a beautiful,

Beautiful moment.

Yeah.

It's kind of like you're surprised again about,

Wow,

A renewed closeness on a level of like the ultimate intimacy.

And I think it's the formula really for a successful relationship.

Okay.

Let's get to the first question.

So this one,

I think is an important one.

It's I mean,

They all are,

But this is related to how COVID has affected our relationships.

So it's a two part question and they're on the opposite spectrum.

I think the latter question is probably more urgent,

But I'll read both.

It said during the COVID-19 pandemic,

Single people who were really challenged on the dating front.

So imagine my first date would take place somewhere outside the home,

But this wasn't exactly an option.

And zoom first dates don't really allow you to fully feel a person you're trying to get to know after so much time in isolation out of practice,

It can feel daunting to get back out there to actually leave the house and go on a date.

It can feel like we're incapable and fear of the unknown can be crippling.

How do we get past this resistance and find our dating group again?

So that's for single people.

The second one is during the COVID-19 pandemic couples living together,

Married or not have spent more time together than ever before.

Some people discovered they can't stand the person they live with or they feel a subtle suffocation that leaves them feeling guilty and confused.

Others discovered spending time with their partner at home is more than enough to make them happy.

In fact,

It may be the only thing they want to do for the latter.

When is it too much time together?

When is too much time together an issue?

How much time should couples spend independently and what is a healthy amount of time to spend pursuing things outside the house?

Okay,

That's a lot.

So I guess we'll go in order.

The first question about dating,

I'd like to hear your input first.

Oh yeah.

I've never dated in my life.

I don't feel,

I don't feel,

What's the word qualified.

I think for dating,

You know,

We never,

We never even went on an official date.

No we went rollerblading a lot earlier in the day.

Yeah,

You can call those dates I guess.

I think that the,

The fear of putting yourself out there.

It's funny.

I mean,

We went rollerblading a lot.

I know.

I think that was like the main thing you were doing in LA in the nineties,

Right?

Yes,

Santa Monica beach,

Venice beach.

I think that feeling of fear anyway.

You probably could.

I'm not sure I could.

I could once my angle is better,

God willing.

Okay.

I think that that fear and that feeling is always present for people,

Whether they admit it or not.

Now you may just feel a little bit rusty in going out there and having a conversation in person with somebody.

So I think that it's just too,

I think that the opportunity actually,

And I hope that this is what COVID and this experience and this in relation to relationships has done is that don't waste time with just,

You know,

The idea of like the physicality of the date,

Right?

A restaurant or,

You know,

Being physical or intimate together.

I think it's just the fact that that wasn't an option for so long.

And I think people are still really weird terms right now,

Really take the time to get to know somebody as a friend.

And that's always my advice anyway,

Whether this question came up in this,

In this kind of idea of things changing.

But if you really,

When you go on a date and you're,

You're not thinking,

Right,

Cause we have our list of,

Is this person,

Does it match my list?

Right?

Are they successful?

Are they good looking?

Do we have things in common?

Which I do think that's important and all of these things are important to some extent,

But instead I think the question should be,

How am I feeling right now sitting with this person?

Do I actually want to get to know them as a friend?

If this wasn't anything that had any romantic connotation,

Would I actually want to befriend this person and start it with that?

So I mean,

That would be my advice.

It's interesting.

The only have you qualified to address in your answer is the idea,

Which again,

I don't know if we've ever spoken about before,

Right,

The idea of how soon do you,

Do you become intimate in any way,

Right?

The physical aspect of a relationship.

And I,

This I can say for sure,

And I've seen this,

It's assuming you're dating for the purpose of a real relationship,

Not just,

You know,

For random,

Who knows what,

But if you're really dating for the purpose of a relationship,

The more you can stretch out the time until anything becomes physical,

The better it is for the possible long-term health of the relationship.

Because whenever the relation becomes physical,

It's in a different realm.

Again,

We of course know that intimacy and sex are very important elements of a thriving relationship,

But our process towards figuring out whether this person,

This partner is the right partner for me is very much helped when the only thing we're focusing on is everything you said,

Friendship,

How do I feel being around them,

The conversations.

And when you too soon bring in the element of the physical relationship,

That skews it to it and brings it to a completely different place.

So I would,

I think maybe one of the benefits of COVID is that people are maybe a little bit more wary about physical interactions.

And therefore,

If we can focus our dates or the times that we meet somebody new on those areas that are,

Call them spiritual,

Important,

Social rather than the physical,

The more potential there is for this relationship to really thrive.

And sorry,

And if you'd have clarity,

But whether this is or not the right,

I've seen so many couples where the physical infatuation was so strong,

It glossed over all the other glaring issues in their actual relationship.

And then at some point that wanes and then the entire relationship breaks down.

So I feel very strongly,

This is true pre-COVID,

Post-COVID,

But maybe now we,

People are a little bit more open to this,

To really take the time to push off the physical element of the relationship and really focus on what I would call the spiritual or the emotional or the friend,

The friendship part of the relationship.

Yeah.

And I think that it can confuse and complicate things.

We think we're in love with somebody because we're in infatuation or sexually it's pleasurable or pleasing.

And actually in my book,

Rethink Love,

I think this is important,

Even though it's talking about teens and sex,

I think it's an important understanding to have.

So I wrote that many partners bring baggage from past sexual relationships into present.

It's not surprising when the average age in the U S to have sex for the first time is 17,

By the way,

It's probably younger now.

Oh,

I'm sure it's younger.

More shocking to me at least is that 25% of teens have sex at age 15.

Grationally,

Most would agree that a 15 year old is nowhere near mature enough to emotionally or cognitively make healthy decisions regarding sexual partners,

Which is why years later,

When we look back on our youthful choices,

We wonder what was I thinking usually followed by feelings of regret.

Sadly,

There are very real repercussions to having sexual relationships at too young an age.

Studies report that people who lose their virginity earlier in life have lower expectations for them or their sexual partners.

Those who have sex after they turn 20 are more likely to have healthy relationships.

Often people have sex in their teens end up settling in later relationships.

It's not always true,

But for many sex is confused with the emotional intimacy that they're craving.

Often this leads to an unhealthy relationship with sex and people who wait to have sex tend to have a greater self-worth and higher expectations for their life partner.

So I think that that's the case even in dating,

You know,

I mean,

Right,

I just want to ask you to address,

Right,

We're talking to an audience of people from all age ranges and past history.

So I want to make sure to be very clear,

We're not,

Nobody should feel bad about any choices we've made by you.

You're very,

Very,

No,

I'm trying to give actually,

That's why I'm giving the information.

You should never regret anything you've done or any part of you.

I think that it's just to be informed about Moving forward.

Yeah,

And about how that has maybe affected us in ways we're not even aware of.

And so that from that space we can make different choices for ourselves.

Right.

And clearly whether you're 15 or 35 or 55 Or 72.

72.

You know,

A lot of people are starting relationships again after they've lost a partner or,

You know,

They've been divorced a long time or whatever it is.

And I think that especially when we're lonely and we crave to be loved and we crave intimacy so much,

We might,

We might give ourselves before we're even ready with that person or there's even that trust or that vulnerability.

And unfortunately we've seen,

Again,

Many people who've given of themselves in many ways because they crave something and it's clear this partner won't give it,

But they crave it so badly.

They give it to somebody too soon and it doesn't have to be sex.

It could be,

It could be an emotional connection.

It could be any type of giving of oneself.

Even your power.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So remind me.

So when is too much time together an issue?

How much time should couples spend independently?

Well,

That was the third if I'm not mistaken,

Right?

That's the second question.

What was the third?

I thought the third was about,

They find that they,

That,

That they're,

They enjoy spending.

Do you want me to read the question?

Yes,

Please.

During the COVID-19 pandemic,

Couples living together,

Married or not,

Have spent more time together than ever before.

Some people discovered they can't stay on the person they live with or they feel a subtle suffocation like that,

That leaves them feeling guilty and confused.

Maybe it's the pillow over their head.

Others discovered spending time with their partner at home is more than enough to make them happy.

In fact,

And maybe the only thing they want to do.

For the latter,

When is too much time together an issue?

How much time should couples spend independently and what is a healthy amount of time to spend pursuing things outside the house?

Okay,

So we'll,

So we'll make two parts of that.

One,

One,

What do you do if you find yourself through COVID like,

Oh my God,

I don't really like spending too much time with this person.

It's funny.

I think I might've shared this in a previous episode.

It was a long time ago,

So I'm not sure anybody remembers.

We have one of our friends was talking about their parents and they're married for a long time.

I said,

How is their relationship?

He said,

It's great.

You know,

One of them lives in New York.

When I lived in Florida,

They have an amazing relationship.

And right then of course,

COVID brought right very clearly to a stark relief what it means to be with this person.

So I think,

You know,

These are important questions because really,

And it really goes back to where we started with the idea of,

You know,

People can be married one year,

Five years,

20 years,

Not really ever having a relate with,

I would call a real relationship,

Right?

There could be a partnership.

It could be the,

They have kids or they have a business together.

It could be many,

Many aspects of what you can call,

You can call a business partnership and call a partnership.

It's not an intimate relationship.

And if that has not been the reality,

Meaning that they have for a long time been intimate in their emotional relationship,

Then yeah,

Very likely that spending more time with somebody who you're not really that close with,

Even though you can,

You've built a whole life with them and so on and so forth is not going to be pleasurable.

So it's an,

I think it's important inflection point.

So ask yourself the question,

Not the,

You know,

Of course not advocating divorce,

But okay,

So what does my life look like for them?

What does my relationship look like 20 years from now?

Do I want to work on this?

Meaning like you said,

Which you say,

I know it's in so many couples.

If you don't fix this now,

It doesn't get better in five years.

It gets a lot,

A lot worse and you can ignore it.

COVID just simply didn't allow us to ignore it.

So I think we take,

Nothing happens by coincidence.

If our relationships came to a point of,

Oh my God,

I can't believe what am I doing with this person?

I can't stand it anymore.

That doesn't mean you get divorced.

It does mean that you do not continue in that way.

Really taking the time to think.

Well,

It's a,

Something needs to change.

Exactly.

Now.

Exactly.

But that change isn't just one of us making a decision.

It has to be a mutual,

Continuous conversation and everything.

And by the way,

Before I forget,

If you have not yet read Monica's book,

Rethink love,

Stop the podcast right now,

Go to amazon.

Com and order your 10 copies of rethink love for yourself,

Your partner and anybody that you love.

But again,

I say that a little bit jokingly,

But also importantly,

Because I think it's a really,

Really great blueprint for couples that are in a place after COVID,

But they,

Oh my God,

What are we doing together?

Read,

Rethink love and work through it together.

But again,

The one clear direction that I could give is make sure you don't move on.

Okay.

The world is opening up a little bit more.

My husband can go back to work.

My wife can go back to work.

We can wind up spending an hour of dinner and a movie every night.

Yeah.

It's like the pressure cooker's off.

And so let's go back.

Never don't do that because again,

It might not be COVID next time,

But this relationship,

If it's in that state now is not getting better by ignoring it for another five years.

And again,

It doesn't mean you have a blow up conversation like we spoke about in the beginning,

But it does mean that you make a commitment that this relationship does not stay in this way anymore.

And how long it takes.

It might take a year.

It might take 20 years.

It doesn't matter,

But cannot be the same because as you've always say,

And we strongly believe every relationship,

Certainly our partner,

Our husband,

Our wife is meant to be a relationship that is constantly growing and constantly fulfilling us in greater and greater ways.

And if you're not addressing these issues right away,

And again,

Of course it's going to be a process.

It will not get better just because maybe the pressure is slightly diminished now as the world opens up and we have the ability to separate from ourselves.

So the third part of that question is how much time should couples spend independently and what is a healthy amount of time to spend pursuing things outside the house?

That's a very good question,

Right?

So let's talk about our relationship then,

Or as we say,

We really like spending time together.

And I do think,

By the way,

Maybe this is the right time to bring this up.

We're not spending enough time together because we're so busy with so many important things.

We also like spending time alone doing things that feed us independently,

Right?

Which is really important also.

Right.

But we also don't do enough of that,

But that's a whole other conversation.

But so we,

I know that we,

Again,

Probably not where our relationship is now with all the new responsibilities that we have and a lot going on,

Very positive things,

But there was a time in our relationship where it was very easy for us to say,

Well,

We don't have to see anybody else.

We really enjoy each other's company.

We really enjoy spending time together.

But of course,

We know that in life,

We did not come to this world just to enjoy each other's company and just to enjoy this relationship.

This relationship is meant to be a powerful source that then feeds us and enables us to share with other people,

To spend time with other people.

So I think it's that balance,

Right?

If you're blessed,

As I hope all of our listeners are and all those,

Of course,

Who will rethink,

Love and implement its wisdom,

That you're blessed to really enjoy the time with your partner.

Make sure you're doing enough of that because you definitely don't want to steal from yourself those moments.

But also be careful.

I know a few couples that say,

Okay,

You know,

At a certain point in their lives,

You know,

They want to move somewhere else and just spend days by themselves or with their partner.

I strongly believe that that's the wrong thing to do because that's not why you have a thriving relationship.

The purpose why we're blessed with a thriving relationship is so then we have the strong foundation to be able to do something positive,

Have a positive impact on the world.

And I do also believe,

By the way,

That a relationship can thrive unless that's a consistent part of your relationship.

So what I would say again,

If you are blessed to have a relationship where you do enjoy spending a tremendous amount of time with your partner,

Of course,

Don't make sure you're doing that,

But also make sure you don't wind up to being too selfish in your relationship because the purpose of a relationship and really one of the key elements to allow it to thrive is what are you doing now with that great love or that great relationship for the world?

And it could be just two couples that you help or one friend that you help,

But that has to be a constant part of your relationship goals.

So you have a question for me?

I actually have a two-parter for you.

How did you know?

What is the difference between healthy compromises and settling for less?

So what's the difference?

In a relationship we know there have to be compromises,

But how do you make sure that you're not in that compromises in some way?

Giving more than you should or settling for less.

I never think of that phrase settling for less without,

And again,

If you haven't seen it,

I've mentioned it in one of our podcasts,

Many years ago SNL had a part where it's called lowered expectations,

Where you see these two people who clearly have sort of given up on a great relationship and wound up with each other.

So you never want to settle for less.

And the second part of the question is how do you get past a fear of settling and or the nagging belief that there is always potentially someone better out there?

Where does this belief come from and how do we transform it?

That's a very important one and a very complicated one.

So I want to,

Again,

I'm going to pull from Rethink Love for a sec.

It's a story.

If you haven't bought the book from the last time I pushed it 20 minutes ago,

Stop the podcast right now.

Go to amazon.

Com and buy your copy,

Your 10 copies of Rethink Love and share it with everybody you care about.

Sorry.

Great.

I did not ask him to do that,

By the way.

Thank you.

So it's a story about Jenny and Tom.

They met in high school.

He was four years older.

Mind if I share another funny story?

Sure.

So this Friday night we were sitting with friends and as many of you know,

Monica,

Of course,

With changing of names,

Used a lot of her history in helping couples.

Did she not recognize a Jenny or a Tom in my life?

I don't think we've ever met a Jenny and Tom couple.

I don't know a Jenny and Tom.

So that's what it reminded me.

So we were sitting with a couple that Monica had counseled for many years and then Monica said to the man,

She said,

You know,

You're in my book.

And he had no idea.

So he said,

Where?

And Monica's like,

I'm not telling you because he had clearly had not read the book yet.

You have to read the book.

If I tell you where it is,

You'll just read that chapter.

I want you to read the whole book.

So,

So he spent like a whole day.

I gave him a hint.

I said,

It's about,

Has soup in it.

So he spent a whole day looking for you.

He finally found himself.

Well,

He was guessing,

Funnily enough,

He was guessing the wrong chapters and the one that he was like,

No,

That's definitely not me was the one.

That's very funny.

But by the way,

I'm not sure if he was happy about it or not.

Anyway,

But the names have been changed.

So you can't have,

Don't have the right to be upset.

Well,

No,

Because then he did.

He did actually write to me today asking me to meet with his partner.

Okay.

So Jenny and Tom met in high school.

He was four years older than she,

Popular and very handsome of all the girls he could have picked.

And there were many,

He chose her.

She stayed with him even when she went off to college and he did not.

Tom didn't have high,

High aspirations for himself,

Nor did he expect much from her,

Which represented a huge difference in the family.

She grew up in.

Jenny had felt constant pressure from her successful parents and two high achieving older siblings.

Her husband offered a welcome relief from that intensity.

He gave her the unconditional acceptance and encouragement that she lacked at home.

It didn't matter that he was a functional drug addict.

As the years went by,

Jenny inevitably began to feel a new kind of pressure.

She was now supporting a household,

Which included Tom,

A son and Tom's growing drug problem.

She finally put her foot down about the money he was spending on drugs and cut Tom off.

Desperate,

Tom set up a hidden camera in their bathroom,

Filmed Jenny taking showers and sold the videos online to pay for his drug habit.

The horror she felt upon this discovery finally shook her awake.

It's an extreme example,

But illustrates an important point.

Overlooking obvious problems and settling for less than what we want will have consequences down the line.

So I go into that chapter about why do we settle all the reasons,

But I do want to just go into this other part is that in relationships,

If someone settled,

There's no incentive to desire more.

And as a result,

Stagnation abounds.

You are deep into the almost and to find your way out,

You must recognize what you truly want and then take steps to go after it.

In times when you find yourself compromised,

You remember that that isn't the path to any kind of true fulfillment.

There's a time for compromise,

But you should never compromise your beliefs and certainly not sacrifice the love you deserve.

So I think that this is where compromise and sacrifice and settling where it can be confusing,

Because when you stop going after what you desire,

What you believe for somebody else,

That is sacrifice.

There's no compromising in that.

Compromising looks like this is really important to me and this other thing is really important to you.

And we need to figure out a way of how to navigate that without one person feeling that they're giving more than the other.

And I think a really great example,

And we did this early in our relationship,

The way we would compromise is that if something that we both wanted to do were two different things,

But that one thing happened to be more important to you.

It wasn't the end of the world for me in that situation.

We would do what you wanted and vice versa.

If there was something that really mattered to me that you didn't desire to do and that you found unimportant,

You would still then compromise and say,

Okay,

We're going to do that.

And we would take turns.

And that's really,

I think I remember that moment when we did that for the first time and we both felt good about it and we've continued now.

I think that was like about seven years into our marriage or four years into our marriage,

Something like that.

But that's really what it needs to look and feel like.

That's really important.

Really,

Really important.

And just to repeat what you said,

Just because it's so important that compromise is when you're not giving up something that is fundamentally important to you,

Either a dream,

A desire or purpose.

And certainly when it's clear that one of these things is more important to one of the parties than the other,

Then of course that's the right time to compromise.

Also of course,

When it's not that important,

Right?

Just ego we'll call it,

Right?

So he or she is asking me to do this,

But the only reason I don't want to do it is not because it's something really fundamentally important.

It's just my ego doesn't want me to do it or doesn't want me to let go of it.

But on the other hand,

Of course,

When something is fundamental to you,

Like I know we've had many times where a couple would come to you and they would say,

You know,

One of the parties is not interested in spirituality or pursuing a spiritual life.

One of them is.

And the thing I always say to the other spouses,

Let's assume we talk about golf.

Golf is really important to your husband and he really wants to talk to you about golf.

Now you don't care about golf.

You never want to play golf,

But if you love him and you know he enjoys it so much,

Of course you want to support his golfing.

Of course,

Within reason,

You know,

You can't take away from too much time in your relationship,

But that's I think if you start viewing that way,

I want to support and this should be the consciousness.

I want to support what is really important to you.

I don't want to support if it's not that important to you and if it's if it's impinging on our relationship.

And I think coming to that balance is,

By the way,

I think you're right.

It's not always clear.

Is this a compromise or is this settling a sacrifice or a sacrifice?

The living,

Settling is a whole other thing.

I think settling is when a person doesn't believe they deserve what they really want or they don't deserve the best of a relationship,

The best that life has to offer.

So they settle for at least this person loves me or at least this person like Jenny and Tom,

This person has a pulse is different,

Is different than my parents.

Right.

It's a welcome relief.

And that might be the case,

But it doesn't mean that you go all the way into a lifelong commitment with that person.

Right.

So so there are three really different things.

I want to some people complain about interrupting you.

I want to make clear I'm not interrupting you,

But I think what you said is so important.

I don't want I think sometimes when you see something quickly,

People hear it and it goes past three things.

Right.

So compromise,

Sacrifice and settling.

So compromise and they do strongly recommend every one of our.

By the way,

If you're in a relationship,

If you're married,

Sit down with you.

Next time you have a date,

Sit down and go over these three.

Where do we compromise?

Where should we compromise more?

Meaning what are the things that are either just ego or not that important that we can in some way give up for each other?

What are the sacrifices?

Meaning what are the things that I,

You or I or in the relationship is so fundamentally important and by the way,

It's important to know because some people might not know that golf is that important to them or that spirituality is that important to them as well.

You enjoy,

You know,

You know,

Going for a walk in the mall.

So and I tell you not to do it because I want this time with me.

I just want to clarify one thing though,

The onus is on the person that loves the golf or loves whatever the thing is because what happens is they end up saying,

Okay,

This person doesn't understand I'll give it up or the person's asking them to give it up and they decide to because they don't want to rock the boat.

I hear that so many times in relationships,

You know,

Happy wife,

Happy life.

I'm sure there's one for men too.

By the way,

I hate when people say that.

I hate it.

Because it's usually an indication of another great relationship.

Men are miserable by the way.

Yeah,

You know,

Usually that means like,

You know,

We really have a terrible relationship,

But I keep thinking that I'm,

Yeah,

Exactly.

To be honest with you.

And I think that,

By the way,

I'm sure there's a few people who say it over.

They have a great relationship.

You're just covering yourself here,

But you were saying that the person needs to decide that this thing is so important to me that no matter what,

I'm not going to give it up.

Like if you had asked me to stop exercising as much as I do on a daily basis because it sometimes the schedule is annoying or whatever that that would be.

And I gave into that.

I would have,

I would have really resented myself and you,

By the way.

Neither one of us would have been happy,

But that would be my responsibility if I allowed you to take that from me.

Right.

Because you didn't see the value in it.

I see this a lot with people who have their spirituality and their partner just doesn't understand it.

They're like,

Well,

They really want me to do this thing on a Friday night,

But that's when they really have that time where they're connecting to something higher than themselves.

And I say,

Well,

The issue here really is not your partner or what they're asking for you to do or not to do.

It's that what's your conviction?

How much do you really know what you love and what you really want and why are you so willing to give that up so quickly?

And you can't blame anybody else for that.

Unfortunately,

People do that.

That's the first thing they do in relationships.

But that's,

It's really a point here where I think all of us have to say,

Okay,

What are the things that are absolute for me?

Doesn't mean I won't be flexible in it,

Right?

Maybe I'll still have my practice on a Friday night,

But it doesn't have to be at my house at a seven o'clock.

Maybe you'll go somewhere else and you'll do it at five o'clock,

Right?

I mean,

There will be flexibility in it,

But you have to know what,

What you believe in and be able to honor that and respect that.

Again,

A very important point that you made is unfortunately too often we're not really clear even within ourselves,

What are my fundamental needs and what are the things that I can,

That I can do that compromise around?

And unless you have clarity about that,

Everything becomes important or everything becomes unimportant.

And both of those will be a problem in the long term,

Whether you give up too easily on the fundamental things that you're not clear about or you never budge on the non-important things that you should be able to compromise on.

And that conversation,

That internal conversation should proceed or should be constant really and proceed the related,

The conversation we didn't have with our spouse about whether this is something that I can or cannot compromise,

Do or do not want to compromise.

Because you said again,

Something really important.

Unfortunately we've seen this as well.

People who compromise on what is fundamental to them build up resentment and that is going to ruin the relationship if not tomorrow,

Next year,

Five years from now.

And then you know what's going to happen?

You're going to end up doing what you wanted to do in the first place.

All of that was for nothing.

There is a great parable from a long time ago that explains again the consequences of settling,

Right?

Not having enough belief that you're deserving of good things.

So I'll just read that quickly with your permission.

I know you're looking at the clock.

It's a little bit long.

Not quickly.

Take your time.

Okay,

Well.

Hundreds of years ago,

Somewhere in Eastern Europe,

There lived an impoverished couple,

Joseph and Rebecca.

Their home was a little more than a shack and their only possession was a scrawny cow from whose milk they fed themselves and earned a meager living.

One afternoon Joseph heard a knock on the door and when he opened it,

Standing before him was a man widely recognized as the great Kabbalist,

The Baal Shem Tov.

He was accompanied by several of the students who stood respectfully behind him.

We've been traveling all day.

May we join you for dinner?

Asked the Baal Shem Tov.

Of course,

Said Joseph,

Showing the men.

Rebecca was astonished,

Even a bit intimidated by the sudden appearance of the great Kabbalist and his students.

Very well then,

Said the Baal Shem Tov,

Glancing around.

But I have to tell you that my students and I are starving after our travels.

We'd like to come in and we want some fine cuts of meat,

Some fresh vegetables,

And of course,

Some good wine.

Can you accommodate us?

Joseph hesitated before nodding enthusiastically.

Oh,

Yes,

He said,

This is a great honor for us.

Let me just speak to my wife for a moment.

He and Rebecca retired to the corner of the room.

What are we going to do?

Rebecca asked anxiously.

How are we going to feed them?

We have no meat or fresh vegetables and the wine we drink isn't at all worthy of the Baal Shem Tov.

Joseph thought for a moment and then he said,

There's only one thing to do.

I'll have to sell the cow to buy the food and there's no time to waste.

Within an hour,

Joseph returned with ingredients from the meal for the Baal Shem Tov and Rebecca hurried to prepare it.

As the great Kabbalists began to eat,

Joseph and Rebecca were amazed by his capacity for food and drink.

As soon as he finished one plate,

He immediately called for more.

He was a bottomless pit.

Even his students were shocked for they had never seen the Baal Shem Tov eat this way.

Usually he ate modestly and made sure that those around him were taken care of first.

It was as if the Baal Shem Tov was trying to eat this poor couple out of house and home.

After downing the last morsel,

The great man pushed his chair back from the table and rose to his feet.

That was delicious.

Thank you very much.

Now we have renewed energy for the road and so we'll be on our way.

When the door had closed behind the departing visitors,

Rebecca said,

Now what are we going to do?

We really have nothing,

Not even the scrawny cow.

What are we going to do,

Joseph?

We're going to starve.

Unable to bear the sight of his weeping wife and with no idea what to do,

Joseph opened the door and stepped out into the cold night air.

Soon he found himself wandering through the forest.

How was he going to solve this terrible problem?

He fell to his knees and began to pray.

From the bottom of his heart,

He asked for all the things he never had,

Not just for himself but for his long suffering wife who had sacrificed so much through the years.

Just then,

Joseph heard a rustling in the branches behind him and as he opened his eyes,

He saw someone stagger towards them.

It was an old man,

Well dressed but disheveled,

Who had obviously been drinking.

When their eyes met,

The old man shone with happiness.

I'm so glad there's someone here,

He said,

Slurring his words.

I don't want to die alone.

Well,

If you were reading the story,

You would do the impersonation.

I'm not going to do that.

Die,

Said Joseph,

Getting to his feet.

You're not going to die.

You've just had a bit too much to drink.

But as Joseph reached out to study the newcomer,

The old man slumped to the ground.

As Joseph knelt beside him,

The man told a painful,

Sad story.

He was very wealthy but he had no family and no friends with whom to share his good fortune.

I'm sorry if you're a troubled friend,

Joseph responded,

But it's cold out here and you need a warm place to rest.

Come home with me and my wife and I'll take care of you.

The old man just shook his head.

It's too late for that,

He said.

But you've been so kind to me while seeking nothing in return.

I can't remember the last time that happened and I'd like to repay your kindness.

Here,

Take this.

But as he reached into his pocket of his coat,

He began coughing and then his face darkened,

His eyes rolled up into his head and he emitted a long rattling sigh.

Joseph quickly bent over to help him,

But sure enough,

The man was dead.

Curious about what the man was trying to give him,

Joseph gently reached into his pocket and found a map.

When he returned the next day,

He followed it deep into the forest where he discovered a buried treasure beyond anything he could have imagined.

Five years later to the day,

The Baal Shem Tov and his students were traveling along the road when a fine carriage passed them headed in the other direction.

As the students glanced in its window,

They were amazed to see Joseph,

The poor man who had struggled to provide them with dinner years before,

Sitting beside him was his wife and they both looked not just prosperous but happy.

When the students turned to the Baal Shem Tov for some explanation,

He only smiled calmly and said,

All along it was Joseph's destiny to be joyful and fulfilled,

But he never thought to ask anything more than what he had had.

He would have been content to spend the rest of his life living from this one scrawny cow.

That's why I had to help him get rid of it,

To receive all the blessings that are destined for us.

We need to believe we're deserving and not settling for anything less.

When we settle,

We stop asking what do I want?

We aren't meant to stay in a place no matter how good or not good it is.

To correlate this to our lives today,

The cow would be a mediocre relationship.

So I just want to ask our listeners,

Ask yourself how you might be stuck in the almost in some area in your life,

Whether it's your relationship or work or family.

Look for the places where things are not great but not terrible either,

Areas that are close enough.

What can you do to make yourself uncomfortable,

Not for its own sake,

But in order to create the relationship you desire?

Beautiful.

I don't have anything to add to that.

But by the way,

I've told this story,

I've heard this story many times.

I've never heard it read or written so.

I modernized it slightly,

I'd say.

So I think really that's where we want to leave our listeners today,

Knowing that certainly your relationship,

But also so many other areas of our lives are meant to be tremendous sources of fulfillment.

And if they're not,

Which they often are not,

Listen to this podcast with your partner,

Listen to this podcast with your kids,

And make sure that you use some of what we spoke about to begin the process of taking your relationship from wherever it is to even greater.

Or even if you're not in a relationship,

Listen to the podcast with the intention of finding a partner that will meet you where you deserve to be meted or you desire to be meted.

You know,

If you don't have kids,

I mean,

Just any,

Any relationship.

And it's,

It's,

It's not only for romance.

I am aware that I didn't get to part two of the settling question,

But my husband won't allow it.

So we'll have to do more hate mail.

I'm getting a hate mail.

You're getting a suggestion.

So we will do another,

We have so many more questions.

I think we're really,

Really good.

So maybe next episode or the one after during this holiday season,

You'll have time to kind of,

You know,

Listen to this,

But also put energy towards improving things.

Yeah.

It's probably that part of time because again,

There are going to be couples or relationships that are going to be spending more time than usual,

Hopefully over the next few weeks that people have the opportunity to really take the time to mindfully,

But seriously elevate because every relationship can be elevated to a greater degree.

So we hope you enjoy listening to this podcast as much as we enjoyed recording.

I have to say,

I really enjoyed listening to this podcast.

You participated.

Yeah,

You know,

But the parts that I listened to.

Please continue to send,

As you see,

We do get to the questions,

But please continue to send your stories,

Questions,

Comments to Monica and Michael at kabala.

Com.

Go to Apple podcasts and if five star reviews,

Write reviews,

Share this podcast with all of your friends and family.

Certainly this one with all people,

You know,

Who are in a relationship desiring to be in relationship because I strongly believe that this can be at least a spark to elevate all of our relationships.

So if you enjoyed listening to this podcast as much as I enjoyed listening and recording it.

Thank you.

Bye!