73. How Love Can Grow: Tips for A Healthier, Happier Relationship Part 2

It takes two to tango no matter what.

Even if one person acted in a way that was not okay,

There's still two people in a relationship.

So go back to that place where you were friends.

What does that look like?

How do you communicate?

But you really have to leave the past in the past and really come from a place of wanting to hear your partner,

Have them hear you create new lines of communication.

And only from that place can you start to rebuild trust.

Welcome to Spiritually Hungry,

Episode 73.

Yay.

I love talking about relationships.

Yes,

We didn't get to all of the questions,

So we'll continue.

I think we got to like one and a half in the last episode for those who are joining just now.

So I don't think people can see it,

But you literally have an empty.

.

.

Oh,

If you're watching this on YouTube or Facebook,

There.

It's all here and there.

I'm your muse,

I know.

You are,

Exactly.

Inspire me.

So I didn't get to the second part of the question you had asked me last week.

Let's remind some of our listeners might be joining just for this one.

Well,

Obviously.

So we are answering questions that have come to us in the past months.

And that's why I continue to send your questions to Monica and Michael at kabala.

Com.

I think you just interrupted me.

I'm sorry.

That are.

.

.

Nobody notices.

That are about relationships.

So the question that we left off with last week that we didn't get to is how do you get past a fear of settling or a nagging belief that there's always potentially someone better out there?

Where does this belief come from and how do we transform it?

So I think that it's a mindset.

I don't think that people just have a nagging feeling that there's somebody else out there in terms of relationships.

But I think often people adopt the mindset that everything is better somewhere else.

Right.

It's like the grass is greener.

Or if I lived in a warmer climate or somewhere that wasn't stressed,

I wouldn't have any stress.

And I think that really,

You know,

I mean,

There might be somebody else out there and you might have this intuitive feeling.

But to even be able to get there,

Perhaps,

Is to start with,

You know,

How do you view the entirety of your life and what is in your power to change in the here and now?

Well,

I would say that it's interesting.

I unfortunately have had many experiences where I'll give you two examples.

This goes back quite a number of years.

There was a person that I knew and he was getting married probably a week from the time he had this conversation.

And it's crazy.

He says to me,

Are you sure there's nobody else?

Oh,

Gosh.

Yes.

That's one.

Wait,

I would love to hear your answer.

I don't even know.

I think I was so shocked.

This is like 30 years ago.

I must have said something like,

You know.

Do you still know them?

Yes.

Are they still married?

They're still married.

I don't know if they're happily married.

I don't know.

We could talk about this offline.

You will.

A second,

Relatively recently,

In the past seven or so years,

I remember I was talking to somebody who's married with kids.

And in the middle of the conversation with his argument,

I would say argument with his wife,

He says in a language that she didn't understand,

He said,

You know,

I can get somebody in a second,

Somebody prettier,

Somebody smarter.

And I was like,

Again,

Taken aback.

I know who you're talking about there.

I think that that.

.

.

I think he even gave some examples.

I think you're right.

But the point is that I think this is either an overt thought that a lot of men,

Unhappily married men,

Which of course we know is the majority,

Or even unhappily relationship men,

Maybe women,

Probably,

I'm not sure,

For whatever reason,

I could be wrong.

I feel men maybe feel this more than women,

But I could be wrong.

And I think my point is,

I think it is either it's overt or sort of an underlying thought that they have.

Why do I have to deal with this?

I mean,

We even,

We spoke yesterday about somebody.

.

.

That's interesting.

You think men feel that more?

What do you mean deal with this?

What does that mean?

You remember we were talking about somebody yesterday and their husband,

Successful,

Older,

And he doesn't want to work on the relationship.

And in his mind,

Well,

There's somebody,

I can have any number of women or girl,

Whatever age he's looking for.

And I think.

.

.

That's specific to his age.

He's a lot older.

I think he's having a late midlife crisis.

Sure,

Sure,

Sure.

I think maybe you have a point in that women,

I think,

Are more innately drawn to creating a home and caretaking of children and family and nurturing,

And therefore they're more invested in creating that stable environment.

So the work is kind of more natural to them.

But I don't think that's.

.

.

I don't think it has to do with.

.

.

I don't know.

I think times are changing so much.

For the purpose of the podcast,

It doesn't even matter what the percentages are and who's more or less.

But I do think,

Again,

It is something that I think we might've spoken about before,

The fact that I do think,

If you can generalize,

Which you shouldn't,

But if you could,

I would say probably women are more open to working on themselves and on the relationship.

Whereas men,

For other reasons,

Are not as open.

Sometimes it takes either a relationship they really care about or something dramatic to make many men open.

Again,

Of course,

There are spiritual men.

But you were saying,

Kabbalistically,

Women are naturally more spiritual than women.

Exactly.

That's true.

Can you expand upon that?

It's funny,

This is a conversation we had over here.

No,

It's absolutely true.

I know.

We talked about this literally as we were walking into record today.

And I was like,

I think you should speak about this publicly.

So ta-dah.

There we go.

Just grab the opportunity.

No,

I really do think that there is,

Again,

If I was going to choose a spiritual teacher,

Myself excluded,

I would probably lean more towards a woman than a man because I do think that they have both a level of insight,

Natural desire to work,

Of course,

Not all women,

And a more natural spiritual affinity than men.

Again,

These are all generalizations.

All simply to get to the point,

Which is that I do think it takes often men more,

Of course,

It's possible,

And of course,

We see it all the time,

To work on themselves,

To really grow,

And to really work on the relationship.

But back to the question,

Which is the idea that whether while you're dating,

And again,

I've heard so many times as well,

I know you have,

How do I know this is the one?

There's a lot of reasons why I think this person might be my soulmate,

But I haven't met everybody.

So how can I possibly know out of the,

What is there,

8 billion people in the world,

4 billion men,

4 billion women,

Approximately.

How do I know that out of those 4 billion potentials,

There aren't more,

Or somebody that I would like better?

That's a very logical question.

Because again,

To the point that most people do not properly assess the possibility of a relationship working,

We know that,

And we've spoken about this as well.

So if you're thinking about it logically,

And you're making a decision,

This is going to be the person that I'm choosing for the rest of my life,

To create a life with a partnership and so on,

Of course,

It makes logical sense to ask the question,

Well,

I haven't met 4 billion people yet,

So how do I know that after meeting 20,

50,

100,

500,

I can make a real assessment?

This is the one.

Of course,

There are times where you do feel something really almost otherworldly in a connection with somebody.

But I want to go to one point for me,

Which I think is the foundation of everything.

Because we believe,

We know that there is a force behind the creation of this world.

We call it the creator.

Some people call it God.

But there is an intelligence,

A force that is both behind the creation of this world and that directs our lives that begins to narrow the possibilities,

Which means,

Why did I meet this person?

And this is true about every person you meet,

Whether it's a romantic relationship or not.

Well,

There's a purpose to it.

When you start thinking about your life with the understanding that everything has a purpose,

Every person you meet,

Whether it's a positive encounter or a negative encounter,

Everything that happens to you in your day from the greatest thing to the most minute detail is purposeful,

That begins to shift your perspective.

And again,

I think it's important for our listeners to really ask themselves,

Which group are they in?

Are they in the,

Everything can be coincidental?

Well,

Then,

I'd be worried to make this type of decision because if everything's going to happen,

It just happens to me that these are the 20 dates that I went on and this is the one that I'm feeling the most towards,

But it could have been any number of billions of other possibilities.

But,

And I do,

I know most of the people listening to this podcast,

And I'm sure many people,

Most people in the world,

I truly believe,

Have that intuitive understanding that there is a force behind this world,

Which basically means that there's a purpose to everything.

So- Yeah,

I mean,

I would say that instead of wishing or dreaming about finding somebody else,

Or is there somebody else,

Or is there somebody else,

Why don't you look at the state of your current relationship if you're in one and see,

Really assess it.

Can it be better or is it something that really has never made you happy?

And if you're single,

Right,

Instead of worrying and fretting about,

My God,

There's so many options in the world,

Is this the right one?

It's really to get tapped into what you were saying before to really get to know yourself deeply and to have a connection with the creator so that you have that guidance and that internal compass that gives you the clarity to really choose the best person for yourself.

Right.

And just to complete that thought,

Which I think,

Again,

As I said,

It's important as we think about relationships and every day of our lives,

If you're really constantly living with the thought,

Now,

I think it's coincidental.

Everything that happens in my life has a purpose.

So the fact that I met this person,

And more importantly,

The fact that I'm actually feeling something,

That is not a coincidence.

There's a purpose to it.

So of course,

Like you said,

If it's a stark difference where a person can say,

I never really felt very much with this person,

Whether I'm married or just further along on the dating process,

Then bail.

Or if you're married,

Ask deeper questions.

But I think for many people,

That's not the question.

The question is,

I am feeling something and it does feel special.

But again,

Four billion people out there,

How do I know?

I think in that case,

You say,

Well,

One second,

There is a force that's directing,

A very important,

Powerful force directing me to have met this person.

And that feeling that I am feeling towards them is not just my own emotions.

It's probably something beyond that as well.

And then you can work towards really coming to a conclusion.

But I think that framework is the better one to help you get to the right choice.

But yeah,

My point is also though,

I think that,

And Hollywood is to blame really,

We are raised looking at these fairytale love stories of what is perfection,

Right?

The romance,

The attraction,

The excitement,

And that's how it's supposed to be for the entirety of the marriage,

Which obviously is not realistic.

So I think people sometimes look at the state of their current relationship,

Even if they love the person,

If you're so busy comparing it to something that you see as perfect,

You're going to find flaws in where you're at.

So I think it's really,

Again,

About looking at where you are in your relationship and how can you make it that kind of relationship that you envision,

Right?

Instead of saying,

Okay,

Well,

This isn't here,

So it must be somewhere out there.

Right.

And I do think that that thought,

Which is,

And again,

We've heard this very often,

By the way,

Sometimes it's true.

My life can be so much simpler.

We're fighting all the time.

This isn't working.

And that can lead to one of two conclusions.

One,

That we're not meant for each other,

Or we are meant for each other and anything that's important takes work and we better start working on it.

And if you don't know which is the right decision,

Start working on it.

And keep really asking for direction,

Really asking for direction.

What should be the conclusion of this?

Where should this be leading me towards?

Well,

This conversation I was having with the woman yesterday mentioning,

And to your point about who does more in terms of putting work into the relationship,

I think for most men,

Of course,

I don't want to generalize,

They hear work as like hard work.

It's going to be painful and arduous.

And I don't want to put all this time in the relationship when I'm stressed about business and I'm working so hard to keep the camp and family afloat or whatever.

This is the kinds of things I hear very often,

Where I think a woman usually understands that the work is just effort.

It's constant and continual.

So I think that just for everybody out there to really think about that,

Investing in the relationship doesn't mean it's going to be hard and painful work,

But it will be constant effort.

Right.

And I would add two things to that.

First,

That work is necessary for you,

And we've said this before,

Whether this is a relationship that will last or not.

Because if there's no coincidence,

Why am I in a relationship that is challenging me?

Only one reason,

I need that challenge.

Regardless of whether this person is the right partner for me,

I need that challenge.

I need to go from it.

I need to change from it.

And only if I'm willing to go through that process will I actually be able to gain clarity about whether this is somebody I should stay with or somebody I should leave,

Number one.

And number two,

Nothing important ever gets accomplished without work.

I know that's a scary word you're saying for many people,

And I agree.

But does anybody ever think if they're building a business that it's going to happen without a significant investment of time and effort?

So I would say time and effort.

I would change the word work because it has a different kind of connotation for people.

Sure.

But to the point that nobody ever thinks they're going to build something without investing that time and effort.

So you want to have the perfect relation,

The perfect is not the right word,

You want to have the right relationship,

Successful,

A thriving relationship.

You have to invest the effort again.

And that's the effort where you are now because you're not there coincidentally so that you'll have clarity about whether this is one you should leave or stay with.

And more importantly,

You will grow in the ways that you need to.

If this is not the right one to be ready for the next one.

How many times have you counted a couple where it was clear to you that there's a lot of work to be done on both sides?

And one of the partners sometimes I know two instances I can remember the wife or the woman says,

No,

I've had enough.

Oh,

And you've told them,

No,

You're making a mistake.

And the mistake is not you're saying you should stay married forever,

But just that there's more work to be done.

Finish the process with this person.

And then I know in two instances years later,

After getting the divorce that they wanted,

They so regretted that decision and were begging to have that relationship back.

So for so many reasons,

Even again,

If it's not the right relationship for you to stay in forever,

You're not there coincidentally.

The work that needs to be done,

You need to do it.

You need to do it.

You need to change from it,

Whether because this is going to become a thriving relationship or because this will change you in the ways that will prepare you for your soulmate relationship.

So I really like this next question.

How do you overcome the belief that if your partner saw the full you,

If they knew every innermost thought,

Everything you deem negative in yourself,

Past or present,

They would leave you?

It is said a woman's heart is full of secrets.

And I'm sure a man's heart is also full of secrets.

How do our secrets limit our relationship?

And how do we get to a place where we feel safe to share all of our secrets?

Are there any secrets we should keep to ourselves?

It's a lot.

I want to hear your insight first.

So there's two parts,

Right?

So how do we get rid of that thought?

And second,

Are there secrets we should keep to ourselves?

Well,

I think if you're having the thought that your partner won't accept you if they see all of you,

Right,

Which is what vulnerability is really about,

Then I think on some level,

You haven't accepted yourself,

Your past choices or how you feel about yourself currently.

The issue here is you can't hide yourself,

Right?

Especially once you're living together or you're married,

They literally become your mirror and they see all of those parts anyway.

So at that point,

It becomes dangerous because you might have acted a certain way and that's who they fell in love with.

And now suddenly you're showing all these other aspects of you and it may come as a surprise.

So there's no upside in hiding yourself and also fearing that they won't love you because I think that if you think about this logically,

You'd want to find a partner that sees you,

All of your flaws,

All of you,

And really loves you.

Because if not,

You're always going to feel like you tricked the person in some way and you're going to be hiding things and you're going to be keeping secrets and you're going to be creating more secrets.

And before you know it,

You can't even keep track of what is truth and what is a lie.

As you say,

I want to challenge you.

Challenge me away.

I think that the first question has to be,

What type of relationship do you have?

And I think we can safely assume- You have to rewind that though.

I mean,

This is also.

.

.

How did you start the relationship?

My point is current state of the relationship,

I think it's safe to assume that many relationships are not in that open,

Complete transparency state.

I would say most.

.

.

I know many.

.

.

I'm trying to think of any of the relationships that I know about,

Whether there's complete transparency.

I think it's a matter of degrees,

But I think that there are many relationships that are really on the other extreme.

But my point is because it started that way.

I think because people are often scared to reveal themselves completely.

Because?

No,

Just because they think that there's something wrong.

If I told them.

.

.

I mean,

How many times have we had relationships where one partner told the other partner about their previous partners?

Yes,

But that was.

.

.

And I can tell you about that case.

That was seven years after they were married.

And I am telling you,

In that honeymoon phase,

When the person is falling in love with you or not,

Usually one is so afraid of losing that one that they found that they will hide a lot of things from them.

And then eventually it comes out and then what happens?

They feel duped.

They feel like they were lied and tricked.

And why?

Why didn't you trust me?

Why don't.

.

.

Because that person never accepted in the Southernist first place.

I actually stand completely behind what I said a few minutes ago because honestly.

.

.

No,

But.

.

.

Yeah.

No.

Why did I bother that person so much?

Because he was very surprised and it was seven years into their marriage and it was something that she had hidden or diverted from answering for years.

So then when he found out,

He had a different opinion of her,

Which was not right,

A.

And B.

She obviously didn't feel comfortable with all of her choices.

But there are certainly many relationships that it can handle in the state that they are currently in,

A complete revelation of everything about the individual.

It's not just about partners from the past.

It's just about their vulnerabilities.

So this is my question to you.

I'm not saying it's.

.

.

I agree with you.

Okay.

If in that scenario,

Right,

In the dating phase,

When they're very serious and they say,

Okay,

I know I'm going to be with this person or I hope to do this for the rest of my life,

They decide to divulge that information then.

But the point is this,

Let's talk about our relationship.

We were married for a number of years and we didn't lie to each other in any way,

But we certainly weren't in a state where we were revealing the innermost feelings and emotions,

The most vulnerable things about each other,

Right?

Yes.

But the question is,

And this is the key here,

Is if they knew every innermost thought,

Okay,

I understand that part,

You need to earn that.

Everything you deem negative in yourself past or present,

They would leave you.

Think about our relationship.

Did we.

.

.

And again,

It wasn't that we were trying to hide anything from each other.

We were not as vulnerable and therefore as open about every single thing that we.

.

.

That's something you have to work towards.

Exactly.

That's my point.

My point is I think it's a mistake for a relationship that's not ready for it,

For one of the partners or both of them to just spill everything out because they're not ready for it.

They're not ready for it.

And as a matter of fact,

How many times have we seen relationships where somebody revealed so much that the other partner was overwhelmed by it?

I think we have to honestly assess,

And this is the individual in their relationships,

Where are we at?

How many times have we seen somebody reveal something about themselves and because their relationship wasn't as strong as it should be,

Can be,

The other person actually used that information to harm and hurt their partner.

True,

But the problem I have with what you're saying is it doesn't.

.

.

This has to happen in a relationship.

One second,

In order for it to be successful.

And in our relationship,

We wouldn't have gotten to that stage unless we had.

.

.

When Josh was born,

That changed everything in our perception of relationships and parenting in life.

That forced us.

Oh,

Honestly,

It forced us into it.

Exactly.

And I don't think that people have to have that external thing situation happen for them to do that.

But I think that when.

.

.

And I really stand behind this when people are dating to really have that conversation of.

.

.

So when do you start to be vulnerable?

No,

No,

No.

Of course you.

.

.

All I'm saying is that,

And I think you will agree with this.

I might.

Many relationships are not in a state where it would be the right thing for both partners to put everything on the table.

I'm not saying that.

You agree.

My point is you agree.

Put one thing on the table and start at the very beginning of the relationship.

So we're agreeing,

Not disagreeing.

Maybe.

I just think that that first.

.

.

That what I'm saying,

This is really necessary to happen in the earliest stages of the relationship,

Even before marriage.

Of course you want to start this process as soon as you can.

My point is it's a process.

It might take five years.

That's all you had to say,

That Monica,

You're right,

But it's a process.

No,

We're shaking hands.

But I think it's really important.

Again,

Because I do think.

.

.

Because most people,

I'm telling you,

They guard it with their lives.

Okay.

And then it's too late.

We've already been married a year.

We've been married five years,

Married seven.

.

.

I can't do it now.

And so what happens is you become less and less vulnerable.

Let me ask you a question.

You get to hold more and more in.

That relationship that you spoke about,

Where in seven years into the marriage,

One of the partners finally tells the other partner a number of partners that they had before.

Had they told that on the first day of their dating?

Did I say the first day?

No.

The first year of their marriage.

Was their marriage in the state where it could handle that?

Probably not.

All I'm saying is that I'm saying two things,

Which I think we're basically in agreement of.

Absolutely opening ourselves up and being vulnerable.

If somebody should start from day one and continue as a process.

I do think that it can be detrimental to a relationship if you open too much too soon and you don't do it in a proper process.

I think that relationship was fragile from day one.

Of course it was.

No,

So I'm saying if you take to other people who were more stable and more open and maybe less ego and they started to share bits and pieces early on,

That would not have been such a shocker seven years in.

Exactly.

So I think we're saying the same thing.

And again,

In a process,

I think again,

Because I want to be very careful here,

Because again,

I strongly believe that and I know I can think of a number of relationships that we know about if they sat down one night and they said,

Listen,

I want to tell you these 30 things about me.

The next day,

They're seeing the divorce lawyers.

I mean,

Of course,

You have to choose well for your partner,

For your friends.

Maybe I'm just gone too far to the other side.

Very often,

I'll say,

I really like that person.

I'll meet with a student and be like,

Really?

Because it's a person that maybe I don't have anything in common.

And I always say to you,

The reason I really liked meeting with that student is because they were really open,

Really vulnerable.

And we didn't waste any time with all this.

Were you married to them?

No,

But my point is,

It's a connection.

Yes.

Right.

And even with friendships,

The only friends that I really have around me are the ones that that dynamic exists.

I'm not interested in wasting time and feeling like I was lied to later and spending years trying to unpack and peel away.

They really get to know the core of somebody.

Doesn't interest me at all.

So I think maybe I am way far on the other spectrum at this point in my life.

But I'm saying now being on this side,

It's the only way to live,

Really.

Of course.

It's a freedom that you will never know otherwise.

And so I just don't want you to discourage our listeners from understanding that this is a really important thing to do early on.

Of course,

You start small.

And if the person responds well,

Then you offer more and more.

If the person doesn't,

Then they're not worthy of knowing that.

I agree with that.

But I don't I think that the way you're kind of explaining it is that it's not a real importance in relationship.

No,

Not at all.

Necessity.

And it's the one thing that creates true closeness.

If I came across as that,

I apologize.

You did a little.

But my point is,

So again,

As I said,

I think we're saying the same thing.

I would add that it's also a process that continues forever.

We can talk about things that we shared with each other,

Emotions that we were feeling just last week that we didn't know the week before.

So it's necessary.

It needs to be well thought out.

And it's a process that continues forever.

OK,

And then what about the second part of the question?

What was the second part?

That women and men's hearts are full of secrets.

How do our secrets limit our relationships and how do we get to a place where we feel safe to share all of our secrets?

Are there any secrets we should keep to ourselves?

So I think we've answered everything except that last question.

Are there any secrets we should keep to ourselves?

That's a that's a fraught question.

I want to hear what your opinion.

We've had this conversation once in a while.

I don't like the word secrets.

I think that.

I think that the most important relationship a person will ever have in their lives is with the creator,

But with themselves,

It's the longest one they'll ever have.

And it's it's right.

So I think that it's OK that there's certain things that you enjoy just for you or that is something you only experience.

But I do feel like if you're in a healthy relationship,

You wouldn't really want that to be a secret.

You want to share it with your partner because you're so intertwined with them and you love them so much.

But it can still be yours.

But I think you'd be inclined to share it.

You know,

I'm slightly ambivalent about this one and maybe I'll explain it a little bit that.

There are I think I know where you're going to go.

Well,

There are there are secrets that are nothing to do with the other partner.

Right.

You know,

A person can say when they grew up,

Their their father abused them,

Let's say,

Right.

That's that's a secret that has no should have no bearing on their their partner.

Right.

So those secrets,

I think you want to strive to get to a place where you can share every bit of your life,

Even the painful parts with your partner.

That's a real partnership where you get to a place where where where I think it's slightly ambivalent.

Let's assume you had you know,

It's funny,

I was just watching a TV show with this.

Bob Newhart.

Exactly.

The one show is the one show.

That's exactly where that question is.

OK,

They were dating somebody when they after they proposed,

They still had not broken up with their first girlfriend.

Right.

And then,

Of course,

They never cheated with them,

But they they only broke up like a week before the wedding.

Right.

How much pain will it cause their partner?

Will it or won't it?

It might.

Why share something the week before the wedding with the first girlfriend?

Yeah,

It's a TV show.

Right.

I mean,

By the way,

I'm sure this happens all the time.

And I think that's problematic.

Of course,

It's problematic.

Question is whether it is or is not problematic with it was the right was not the right choice.

The question is,

If the revelation of that information will hurt the partner when in reality right now where their relationship is,

It does not affect the relationship.

I'm slightly ambivalent.

I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other.

But let me ask you another question.

Sure.

Let's say that a husband or a wife cheated.

That's a whole so this is a whole big conversation.

I know.

It's just interesting when I hear your opinion.

And I'm not finished with the question.

Yeah.

And they and it went on for,

Let's say,

Two years and.

Their own marriage was going through a really rough patch.

Now it's better they realize that it was a mistake and that they'll never do it again.

And let's say that's true because,

You know,

That's I don't want to go into that.

People cheat for all kinds of reasons.

Do you think that that's a secret?

That's a tough,

Tough,

Tough question that I don't feel I can give strong advice one way or the other because we know many,

Unfortunately,

People are people.

People who've cheated and shared,

People who cheated and didn't share,

People who cheated and continued to cheat.

I think that the goal has to be we want to be completely transparent with each other.

Like I was saying all the way in the previous conversation.

Is this going to ruin the relationship if I share it,

The person shares it today,

Or will it not?

Or if I share it a year from now?

I think it's the one thing.

Yeah,

I think I think the one thing that is clear is that you want to have the goal of complete transparency about good things and bad things and terrible things.

I do think you want to if you want to make this relationship or marriage work,

Is sharing it today going to ruin the possibility of that or enhance it?

Or enhance it?

And I don't know that there's clear guidance that I can give neither from spiritual practical point of view.

The only thing I could say is that the goal should be complete transparency,

But that might take a day,

A week,

A month,

A year,

Five years.

I don't think that a relationship can be at its maximum unless there is a desire at least to get to a place of complete transparency,

But I do think that there are times where a revelation at a certain moment can destroy something and cause great pain when maybe doing it another time will have less of an attack.

Right,

Could destroy something that has the ability to live and grow and be strong.

Yeah,

It's such a difficult,

You know,

We've been in situations where people ask us this question and it's just so first of all,

It's very obviously a very personal decision.

Only the individual with individuals involved can make this decision,

But I don't know that it's ever clear one way or the other,

Neither spiritually or practically.

I have a feeling many of our listeners are going to have strong opinions one way or the other.

And write to us,

I really want to hear about.

Yeah,

And by the way,

And I can't say it's wrong to have,

By the way,

Everybody because of their life experiences,

I'm sure if somebody had a parent that cheated,

They can have very extreme,

Maybe certainly right for them opinions about this.

I like to say is that in all honesty,

I cannot,

I don't feel that it's right to say one way is absolutely the right way or the wrong way.

The only thing that I can say for sure is that,

You know,

You want to make sure that the goal,

Your goal in your relationship is to get to complete transparency,

But it might be when you're 70 years old.

But again,

I think this is a very personal decision that has to be weighed very,

Very,

Very,

Very heavily and carefully.

So I think this is actually about are there secrets we should keep to ourselves?

No,

I said,

I told you.

Well,

Yeah.

No,

But I think I think the cheating thing.

Yeah,

That's,

That's,

Yeah.

Yeah.

I do think it depends where the person is at really at that stage.

And I think that if it's a relationship that really is beautiful and a person just made a mistake,

I think that it's okay to wait.

I think eventually you do want to get to a place where you are fully transparent,

But there's a lot to consider if there's children in the mix.

You know,

There's a lot to consider.

Right.

Right.

And we'd like to hear from our listeners on this topic.

I just never believe that it's all or nothing black or white.

So that's why it's not an answer that I can give.

Just,

You know,

It would be specific to each situation.

Right.

But I think it leads into the next question we have.

Someone asked,

How do you repair broken trust?

Do you wipe the slate clean?

And if so,

How many times should you be open to this type of fresh start?

When is wiping the slate clean just code for turning a blind eye?

So I do really like this question and and I get this a lot.

Right.

And I think that often when people have decided to forgive somebody for whatever,

That's even infidelity,

They have accepted it's happened.

They want to continue the relationship,

But they really haven't forgiven them.

So there's a lot of judgment in the conversations.

There's resentment.

It's always the elephant in the room.

And if you decide to actually wipe the slate clean,

That means you wipe the slate clean and you go back to being friends again.

I think often in relationships,

When you get to this place where something has happened that has broken trust and has been really hurtful,

They never really go to that place of just starting again.

And I say,

You know,

It takes two to tango no matter what,

Even if one person acted in a way that was not OK,

There's still two people in a relationship.

So go back to that place where you were friends.

You know,

What does that look like?

How does how do you communicate?

But you really have to leave the past in the past and really come from a place of wanting to hear your partner,

Have them hear you create new lines of communication.

And only from that place can you start to rebuild trust.

Right.

Again,

A very difficult question and one that is often very specific to the situation.

I would say that we have seen many relationships where one of the spouses broke the trust through cheating and they found a way to forgive and the relationship thrived.

We've also seen situations where that happened and it deteriorated.

And I think that I will go back to what I said in the beginning,

Which is it's not a coincidence you're with this person.

It doesn't mean you should accept anything that's not unacceptable,

But it does mean that it's not just the question of what do I feel in this moment?

Especially if I've built a family with this person,

If I've built a life with this person.

And in all honesty,

I don't think that I would ever have the wherewithal to,

God's will,

You know,

Listen,

You know,

Be able to continue onward if anything like that,

Experiencing anything like that.

But I do know that there are people who certainly are not coincidentally in that situation.

And that's the spiritual view.

It's not a coincidence I'm in this situation.

Of course,

What they did is wrong,

But why am I in this process?

And the reason why I'm in this process is certainly to grow and to change and maybe,

Maybe to forgive.

So I think when you start off with that view,

Not a coincidence,

It's not just,

I'm not just the victim here.

There's a purpose for me to be in this relationship and in this process.

And it might be that at the end I say the purpose is for me to learn,

Experience that pain and see this is not going to work.

Or it's possible that I'm in this relationship to say,

Okay,

I'm going through this pain.

We're both going to grow from this and it can work.

Yeah.

And I think that you really have to,

Again,

Leave it in the past and not,

You know,

Thinking about it over and over again,

Having to play out over and over again,

Or being jealous,

Imagining there's another person.

It really requires you looking way into your future and asking yourself,

What do you want it to look like?

What do you want your life to be like?

Because there's no point in continuing in a relationship when you really can't fully be there and trust completely and heal.

It will take time.

There needs to be a process of reparation for sure.

Yeah.

And I would say,

Again,

I would say we certainly have seen couples going through this process and winding up over time with a lot of work,

A thriving and happy couple.

So we have time for one more question.

Yay!

Jealousy is one of those topics people are afraid to touch.

People are afraid to admit when they're jealous because there's shame attached to jealousy.

So the people who seem to experience chronic jealousy in relationships,

No matter how much love or trust their partner gives them,

The jealousy is still there.

Why and what is the root of it?

So it's interesting.

There's actually a section in the Zara that always perplexed me when I read it,

Because I think by nature,

I'm not a jealous person.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Yeah,

I don't think you are.

I'm trying to think about that first.

But the Zara says that there cannot be love without a little bit of jealousy.

And I think what that basically means.

.

.

By the way,

Do you think that jealousy is connected to how much a person trusts the other?

Obviously,

There's elements to that.

I think there are people who will naturally be more jealous than others.

And that can come from many,

Many,

Many different reasons.

So nature is a big element here.

But it can also be from indications of lack of trust,

Or at least indications that awaken a lack of trust.

But so the Zara says that.

So what does that mean that if there's no jealousy,

There's no love?

Obviously,

Unfortunately,

We've also seen relations where people almost don't even care.

If you appreciate something and you know that it is something that you desperately need,

Then of course,

You're jealous,

Not in the sense that you're going to yell if they talk to somebody,

But you're very protective.

So for me,

Jealousy is just a higher level of protectiveness around a gift that you believe is both right for you and necessary,

Desperately necessary for you.

Not always.

Sometimes people are jealous because they're just deeply insecure.

Of course,

Of course.

But I'm talking about what I believe the Zara is referring to.

The deeper level.

And I guess jealousy would be a different thing.

Jealousy would be a different way.

It would be a deep desire.

Right.

We use that phrase people use,

Right?

To jealously protect something.

Right.

And I think that is important.

And it goes to everything we've spoken about in this podcast and in previous podcasts where we spoke about relationships.

If you look at your relationship as one,

As,

You know,

Okay,

Take it or leave it,

Or,

You know,

It's a nice thing to have,

Or I'm so happy I have it,

Rather than I desperately need this.

Right.

If you desperately need it,

Then you're jealously protected.

What does that mean?

That means you don't allow cracks to form.

It means that you do invest the effort and time to correct and to grow and to make sure that it continues to thrive.

So I think that element of jealousy,

And by the way,

It might also include saying,

You know,

I'm uncomfortable that you're whatever doing this or that,

Even if,

You know,

Not any negative intentions,

But this is so important to me.

I so desperately need this relationship not only to be,

But to grow and to thrive.

I think all of that is within the realm of positive jealousy.

Of course,

We have seen,

And of course,

There can be in the world,

A tremendous amount of negative jealousy.

So what I would say is.

And not just in relationships,

But really coveting what other people have.

Of course.

But even in some ways trying to overly protect what we have.

But I think,

Again,

Just to the point that I think that being protectively jealous is an effect,

Should be an effect,

A manifestation of our appreciation for our relationship,

Our understanding of the desperate need that we have for this relationship.

Again,

Not only to exist,

But to thrive in all those ways.

And if it's coming from that place,

I think it actually is very positive.

And the way to know is,

Is it pushing me to share more,

To invest more,

To be very protective of this relationship and making sure that it's growing?

Not just like,

You know,

How not just,

Oh,

I have it,

But what am I doing with it?

What am I doing to make it grow?

Not like it's a possession or that you own it,

But how you nurture it.

It's a gift that I want me to nurture.

Exactly.

So let me just touch on the negative for a second.

This is from my book,

Rethink Love.

Again,

If you have not yet bought Rethink Love,

Stop or bought it for all of your friends and family,

Especially during the season,

Pause the podcast,

Go to Amazon.

Com and order your 10 copies for your friends and family of Rethink Love by Monica Bird.

The most,

It's interesting.

I'll share it if you don't mind.

I hear you,

I'm interrupting you,

But I think it's worthwhile.

Somebody who's getting married soon texted me,

He said,

You know,

Can you recommend any spiritual books about relationships?

I said that in truth.

And I really,

Unfortunately,

Again,

I ask all of our listeners,

If you do know of amazing books,

Certainly the best one that I know is Rethink Love.

So I'm not just promoting it because I love you and you're my wife,

But I do think that it is the most powerful relationship book for people.

Pre-relationships,

In relationships,

And in certainly in relationships that are experiencing difficulties,

Let's say.

Thanks.

Sorry for interrupting.

So,

Okay,

This is what I had written.

I work out with a woman who is a self-described jealous person.

After being single for a while,

She entered into a relationship.

She was often enraged with her boyfriend because she was convinced he was going to leave her.

Although he wasn't flirting with other women and showed no desire to end the relationship,

The only thing that could drive them apart,

He told her,

Was her jealousy.

So I gave her an exercise.

And I want all of our listeners to pause and think,

Are there areas in your life or people that you feel jealousy towards?

The first step was to bring awareness to the emotion.

Every time she felt jealous,

I asked her to observe the emotion instead of reacting to it to get to the root of the cause.

Eventually,

She realized that her jealousy developed because she believed she wasn't good enough for him.

Now she had figured that out,

She realized she could direct her focus on her feelings and her focus towards herself and away from her boyfriend.

When painful emotions arise like anger and jealousy,

We have the option to keep them to ourselves or to communicate what we're feeling.

With our partners,

The latter approach can be very effective.

Reacting looks like this.

I know you're flirting with other women,

So you might as well just leave me now.

Get out.

People do that.

I'm sure they do.

Communicating looks like this.

At this moment,

I'm feeling jealous because when you say,

Do,

Behave in this way,

It makes me feel insecure.

Communicating through emotion supports connection.

Reacting drives disconnection.

I asked my friend to make a list of the things she does to make her feel good about herself.

Then I asked her to identify what emotions lie behind those things.

She came up with words like empowered,

Creative,

And strong.

Behind her good feelings lie qualities that are fundamental part of who she is.

Those qualities are not going to change,

Although sometimes she may lose sight of them.

I asked her to think about this list whenever her self-esteem felt a little shaky.

Observing our emotions closely is imperative if we're going to understand how they affect our lives and those people we love.

Beautiful.

There's literally nothing I can add to that.

Wow.

Fucker.

So I think it's not a coincidence these past two episodes of the podcast have been about relationships because it's probably the most important amongst the more important areas of our lives that we should focus on.

So I do recommend,

By the way,

For our listeners,

Certainly if you're in a relationship,

Listen to this podcast with your partner.

And maybe talk even between the two of you about the issues that we spoke here.

Because the one thing that is always true about relationships is that you need to be talking about them.

You need to be investing in them because even,

We'll talk about our relationship as it is today,

I'm very happy with where it is.

We know that where it needs to be tomorrow,

Where it can be tomorrow,

Is something even more powerful,

Something even more fulfilling.

And you have to be driving and striving for that all the time.

Like I always say,

The relationships that work are the ones you work on.

Beautiful.

So I hope you enjoyed listening to this podcast as much as we enjoyed recording and personally listening to it as well.

And please continue to send all of your questions,

Comments,

Stories to Monica and Michael at kabala.

Com.

Make sure to support this podcast by sharing it with all your friends and family,

Posting on your social media,

Going to Apple podcasts,

Writing five star reviews,

And again,

Sharing it with as many people as you can because I know that it inspires so many of our listeners.

And we just hope that it continues spreading to more and more people.

And in this regard,

Elevating all of our relationships to higher and higher levels.

And most importantly,

Stay spiritually hungry.

Bye.