Leadership is not a choice,
Meaning our listeners do not have a choice whether they will or won't be a leader.
You want to be happy?
You want to be fulfilled?
You want to actually achieve your soul's purpose?
Then you must step up to leadership.
Being of service in that way is actually at the core of what we came to this world to be and to do.
Welcome to the Spiritually Hungry Podcast,
Episode 75.
It's going to be a good one.
It's going to be an amazing one.
So listen,
The year of the podcast,
All of the above,
All of you friends,
We have thought about this topic and we felt that it was appropriate,
Especially after just entering the new year and being in a seemingly uncertain time as the world is locking down a bit again and dealing with the new variant that we really are right now relying on our leaders to hopefully make good choices for us and lead us as a nation.
So the big question of the hour is what makes a good leader?
Not a good leader,
What makes a great leader?
So we're going to talk about leaders and leadership.
Merriam Webster,
You know,
I love to quote the dictionary,
I guess it would be,
Defines leadership as the power or ability to lead other people.
It's a heady goal for people moving up the chain in their career paths,
Striving for the next promotion or seeking that next title on the path to their dream job.
It's one that especially resonates with younger people just entering the workforce.
We know that because our eldest is very attracted to this idea altogether.
They dream one day of being the boss or being your own boss,
Having the power and power is right there in the definition.
If I were in charge,
They might say,
And that usually means they think they would make improvements on how things get done,
Be more efficient and effective and maybe even be nicer or require fewer working hours and give people raises.
Of course,
The idea is very different when when you're not the boss and then when you become the boss or a leader,
You are met with struggles,
Stress,
Pressure that you can't even imagine.
I'm sorry,
There's a famous Israeli quote where people always say what you see from here,
You don't see from there.
Yeah,
That's true.
I might have said it a little bit.
But in this daydream of how awesome it would be to be the boss or the team leader or whatever leadership role they envision,
Their daydreams are missing the point almost completely because to be a good leader,
You have to be a can you fill in the blank?
I could be many things a good word and word follower.
What?
I don't agree with that.
Just say what?
That was really an epic fail of an answer.
You have to be a servant.
Let's be honest,
Being of service doesn't sound as sexy to most people as being the boss,
CEO or director.
Good leadership is about taking responsibility and not just for your own actions and impact but responsibility for the outcomes and to a great extent for the actions and impact of your team.
It is power,
But it's not the kind of power that most envision.
That's why I really like this topic we're talking about today.
Effective leaders show up for their teams to give,
Lead,
Support and encourage even when they're busy,
Tired,
Down or even just uninspired.
That's a big shift for a lot of people who dream of being leaders.
You're in charge,
But in the largest part of leaders,
A job isn't strategy or issuing orders.
It's being of service,
Working as hard if not harder than your team and taking responsibility no matter what.
Michael,
When you first started in a leadership role,
What did you think your criteria were for being a successful leader?
I can already knock a few off.
I don't think,
But maybe I'm wrong.
You're answering the question.
No,
I'm just going to for our listeners here.
I don't think it was about launching a product.
I don't think it was if you had a well-received campaign or idea or making sure people did what you asked them to.
Well,
So what was it?
Well,
It's definitely I'm not going to answer any of those.
I think for me it always begins with the individual,
Which means I've always had an aversion to people,
And I want to say this carefully because nobody's meant to be perfect.
And even certainly I'm not perfect,
You're not perfect.
No leader that I know,
I don't believe,
Is ever perfect,
Right?
But it's in the striving at least to be and live up to whatever it is we ask others to do so that if we're leading,
Whether we're leading ourselves,
Our family,
Or anybody else,
Certainly larger organizations,
If you're requiring,
Requesting,
Or directing people towards a certain goal,
At the minimum,
I think,
Not that you're perfect in that area or in those things,
But at least you have a strong and true desire and you're working on yourself towards those goals as well.
So let me ask you,
Is this the idea you had before you started in leadership role or was there an aha moment where it shifted the way you saw it?
I think again,
Because it's always easy to judge people in leadership positions and I've had.
.
.
It's especially easy to judge people in leadership positions.
Right.
Well,
Unfortunately in our world it's easy to judge anybody all the time,
But just look on Instagram.
But I think it's certainly people who have a higher profile,
Who are in leadership positions,
And I've been blessed throughout my life,
Even in younger ages,
To really meet leaders,
Be with leaders.
And I know that for me,
And again,
I think it starts with being idealistic at younger ages,
But it is based on the truth that there's a phrase also in ancient Hebrew,
Never to be one in the mouth and one in the heart,
Which means the heart and the mouth that need to be aligned.
If you're saying something,
It means it must be something coming from a truest part of you.
When you say one in the mouth,
Meaning something you're offering from the mouth,
Something you're offering from the heart,
Like head and heart.
Meaning if your heart is saying one thing and your mouth is saying the other,
That's a problem.
So I think for me,
It's not so much that I decided this is the type of leadership that is important to me.
It's just that I,
You know,
Often it's true.
You learn from seeing sometimes things that you don't feel is the best way that you learn for yourself.
And again,
To be really clear,
It's not that I think leaders are perfect or even need to be perfect.
It's not possibility.
But that desire needs to be the same,
Right?
The desire that you're expecting from those with whom you're sharing,
Leading.
And honestly,
I don't even love that word leadership or leader because to my mind,
Nobody sometimes,
Again,
People think that a leader is somebody who's at the pinnacle,
Right?
He's at the top and he's leading others towards the top.
That's never the case.
I don't think.
Except maybe in a few historical anomalies.
For the most part,
A leader is somebody who's in the process as well,
But at least their desires may be stronger.
Maybe their clarity is a little bit stronger than everybody else.
Yeah.
So of course,
Naturally you go positive with it,
Which is your style.
And I agree.
I apologize.
No,
But I do want to just briefly discuss the different leadership approaches.
There are different behaviors that make some leaders,
Right?
There are despots,
Tyrants or dictators.
And of course,
There's different kinds of behaviors that leaders take on.
Some based on how they lead are ineffective and competent or pushovers.
Others are effective,
Inspiring and beloved.
So I thought this was really interesting.
In 1939,
A group of researchers led by psychologist,
Kurt Lewin,
Set out to identify different styles of leadership.
While further research has identified more distinct types of leadership,
This early study was very influential and established three major leadership styles.
So the first was authoritarian,
Which they found works,
But it has drawbacks.
So basically this one was kind of a mediocre style.
It provided clear expectations on what should be done,
How,
When.
Leader functions independently and it takes little influence from followers.
Researchers found decision making was less creative under this style though.
So that's how it was a negative.
And this approach tends to lead to hostile work environments,
Often pitting people against one another to please the leader.
And we've seen,
I think,
Leaders like that.
Then the further characteristics of ineffective authoritarian style leadership is they need to maintain command and control at all times.
They demand respect and submission.
And they're adamant about making the final decision.
So these were mediocre,
Ultimately ineffective.
Then there was laissez faire,
Which is the worst.
And I think you can even,
If you think about these styles,
You can even apply it to parenting,
Right?
Because a lot of people parent this way.
So in this style,
They saw it with children also.
This group also made more demands on the leaders,
Showed little cooperation,
Were unable to work independently.
There were poorly defined roles,
Lack of motivation,
And results in this groups that lack direction and members who blame each other for mistakes,
Refuse to accept personal responsibility,
Make less progress,
And produce less work.
So it's interesting because when you look at leadership and leadership styles,
Ultimately,
I think leaders should be creating other leaders,
Right?
Because you're inspiring people to think,
To be creative,
To not be afraid of making mistakes,
To not feel the need to be perfect.
Then one style that was good were democratic.
Research found this to be the most effective and inspiring followers to perform well.
That fostered healthier work environments,
People felt validated and inspired to give.
And the golden one was transformational leadership,
Which I loved because that sounds pretty spiritual and Kabbalistic.
And this was,
It was first defined during the late 1970s and later expanded upon the research by Bernard M.
Bass.
And transformational leaders are able to motivate and inspire followers and to direct positive changes in the groups.
These leaders were emotionally intelligent,
Energetic,
And passionate.
And there is a great example of this kind of leader.
And I was just recently watching,
It was a CNN special on Princess Diana,
Which is really good if you haven't seen it.
But in 1987,
I'm sure you remember this,
During the height of the AIDS epidemic,
People believed that you could catch the disease simply by touching someone who was infected.
And while this wasn't true,
Sufferers were completely shunned and ostracized,
Making it difficult for them to receive care.
On April 19th of the same year,
Princess Diana,
One of the most famous and beloved heads of states at that time,
Opened the first unit in the UK dedicated to treating patients with HIV and AIDS.
And she didn't stop there.
I get the goosebumps just even thinking about it.
She actually visited the clinic in person and was photographed shaking the hand of a patient doing so without any protection or even gloves.
The small act of compassion forever changed people's perception of the disease.
And that's an example of a transformational leader and a true leader.
And so why does it work?
Why does transformational leadership work?
When we're generally interested in someone,
We learn about them,
We hear them out,
And we're creating a safe space for them.
I think this is what really is part of being a great leader.
When they feel secure,
Respected,
And heard,
They flourish.
They empower their team members to grow as well.
And then ultimately,
This takes us to the highest level,
Which is qualities of spiritual leader,
Which is a being of service.
So I think one of the greatest leaders that we know like that was Moses,
Right?
And what made him a great leader was that all that he wanted to do was serve the creator,
If I'm not mistaken.
He had a stutter.
He wasn't the most obvious choice for the job,
But he had that one quality.
And ultimately,
That was everything.
Right.
I think- They're not going to say,
Oh,
Monique,
You said a lot.
Let me pick up on one point there.
Well,
There was a lot there,
But I think I'll pick up exactly where you ended.
Because I think sometimes when you talk about the concept of leadership,
I think there's a lot of people in the world who will say,
Well,
That doesn't apply to me.
I'm not a leader.
I don't even desire to be a leader.
I don't have the qualities to be a leader,
Perhaps.
Right.
I think the reason why this topic,
This podcast is so important is because on some level,
Every person came into this world to be a leader.
As a matter of fact,
I don't think that we can actually achieve the fulfillment that we desire at our core unless we are taking steps towards and living as a leader.
One of the fundamental Kabbalistic concepts is that when we talk about the creator,
God,
Whatever phrase we use,
The one quality that we know exists within that energy,
Within that force called the creator is,
And one of my favorite Kabbalistic phrases,
Ratzon ha'ashpia,
Desire to share.
What that means is that the one thing we know about the light that we call the creator,
That energy that we call the creator is that it desires to share goodness.
Now we've spoken about this in previous podcasts.
The way to fulfillment is by living in line,
Living in the same way as our cause,
As our creator,
That creator force,
Which very simply means that in order for us to be fulfilled,
We must be living a life of desiring to share and doing actions to share with others.
And that is what leadership is.
That is really all.
Then of course you can build upon that.
Unfortunately,
Of course,
Not all leaders start from this point or have their leadership based on this core principle,
But I am sure that this is the only way towards real leadership and just to bring it back to people.
Whether you are just leading your own life and desire for it to become what it's meant to be,
Which is greater than anything we probably have accomplished so far,
Whether you're leading your family,
Whether you're leading your friends or group,
Whether you're leading a large organization,
This must be the core principle.
I know,
And I'm talking about myself personally,
But hopefully for our listeners,
I know that the only way that I will achieve the fulfillment for which I came into this world that I meant to achieve,
And the only way my soul will achieve its purpose is if I make my mantra,
My goal to be a leader who has a rations de la aspiel,
A desire to share with others.
There's no other path to happiness in this world.
So any of our listeners who might think,
Okay,
Well,
I don't plan on running a company.
I don't plan on being a leader.
Well,
Too bad.
You actually came to this world to be a leader.
It doesn't mean you'll lead millions,
But it does mean you'll lead yourself and or friends,
Family,
And others.
And the foundational core must be this understanding.
And this goes back to what you were mentioning before about the consciousness of serving,
That the understanding is,
Especially if you are a leader to more people,
There's again another ancient Kabbalistic phrase,
You do not become a leader to thousands,
You become a servant to thousands,
Which is the same phrase that you said.
And that really shifts completely,
I think for the most part,
The way people look at being a leader.
I think you mentioned before that,
Especially younger people when they're starting in the workforce,
You know,
I want to become the boss.
I'm going to fix it.
Well,
Not just that desire to be the boss,
What it really must mean for any one of us to be successful in this endeavor of being a leader,
Now that we understand that all of us must be leaders,
Is the constant question,
How do I push myself more to serve?
How do I push myself more to serve?
Because then I'll be the leader that I'm meant to be.
Maybe more importantly,
Then I'll actually achieve fulfillment.
No other path towards leadership will bring a person to the fulfillment for which he or she is created,
Unless it comes from that place that understanding is,
I don't have a choice.
I am a leader,
I need to be a leader,
I need to grow as a leader in order for me to achieve my fulfillment.
And second,
That the core tenant upon which any true leadership can be based must be the desire to be a certain service or a servant towards others.
So that can mean many different things.
I was actually talking to somebody today and he mentioned something which I think is completely true and in line with everything we're saying until now,
That unless you take the things that you don't want to do and you put them on the top of your to-do list,
Then you'll never achieve the success that you desire.
And I think that all in line with this idea.
What are the- Because I mean that speaks to intention,
Right?
Well,
In action,
Right?
So what are.
.
.
It's easy for a person to say,
Well,
I'll be a leader in the way that it's comfortable for me,
Even if it's in service,
But in service in the ways that are comfortable for me,
Still not the right way.
It must be that I am in service and I especially find the uncomfortable ways to be of service.
That's true leadership.
That's true leadership.
And that's a question I often ask myself,
Right?
It's not so much nice to be,
You know,
Beautiful and inspiring,
You know,
Even personally to do things,
To share,
To teach and to lead.
But the proper question for the growth of the individual and his or her leadership is,
How am I pushing myself to be of service more?
To be more of service.
And I just add,
There's a lot,
Of course,
A lot to be said on this topic.
You mentioned before Moses and in my mind,
Of course,
Moses being one of the great historical leaders,
I think the reticent leader is probably the best leader,
Meaning the person who does not have a desire or I'll use another word,
The ego,
To say,
I want people to respect me.
I want people to look up to me.
Those are usually,
Again,
I'm sure there's probably,
You know,
Many,
Many leaders that are relatively successful in that path.
And often they didn't set out for it.
It kind of found them.
Exactly.
The ones who actually fought it as Moses,
As another great leader,
Jeremiah did that.
Jeremiah was,
You can't say that name without me singing.
Well I can,
But you can't.
Was it good if my kids were here with us,
They would be joining in?
I think one of the reasons is because then the ego is not involved.
And probably one of the greatest killers of great and true leadership,
Which now we know the same way we all need,
Is to the degree that the ego is involved.
And by the way,
Some people even start out there,
Right,
With the right intentions.
And then the ego gets a hold of somewhere along that process.
And then,
You know,
They're kind of lost in it.
So I want to be super clear.
The first quality of a spiritual leader is they understand leadership is an act of service,
Right?
The second is they invest in learning.
By this I mean they understand that there's always more to learn and are willing to hear everyone's perspective or ideas.
And an example of this also is Yitro,
Right?
He came to Moses with ideas about his leadership style and Moses actually listened despite how negative Yitro was.
And Moses had a desire to learn,
Right?
Maybe he could be better,
He could improve.
Yeah,
I think again,
That's such an important,
It goes back to what we were saying a little bit before.
Especially from somebody who is criticizing you ultimately,
Right?
Maybe not from the right place.
Maybe,
Maybe not.
But the idea,
I think,
We talked about leadership,
Probably the greatest killer of true leadership is the ego.
Again,
I remember,
I've mentioned this in previous podcasts,
But probably one of the worst parts of ego is that it blinds us.
It blinds us to truths,
To things that we need to be seeing.
One of my greatest takeaways from the Ken Burns relatively lengthy series,
Documentary series on the Vietnam War was the fact that you had,
As they were called,
The best and the brightest,
The smartest people from the smartest schools who were leading the Defense Department,
Were leading the military,
Were leading the government.
And deep down inside,
They all knew that people were dying needlessly,
Thousands upon thousands upon thousands upon thousands.
But the ego did not either allow them to see it or more importantly,
To admit and make a big change.
When you think about that,
And again,
Maybe many of us don't go wake up every morning and literally have life and death decisions in our hand,
Although many people do.
If we understand that allowing our ego to be involved in our leadership literally blinds us to truth,
To the best decisions to be made,
The best direction to be taken,
To the biggest changes that need to be made,
Then hopefully it will cause some sort of fear against that.
Because there have been great leaders throughout history who've made terrible,
Terrible decisions and led in terrible ways,
And not consciously,
Their desire,
Their intention was right,
Maybe even pure,
Whatever that word means.
But the ego blinds.
They weren't open to learning.
Well,
The ego makes them not open,
Right?
Ego in some degree is the person saying,
I know more than a lot of other people.
There's actually,
If I can share a story,
A parable that my father would often share,
And I actually have a very clear memory,
In the,
I think it was mid-90s.
Where were you?
How old were you?
Yes.
Well,
In the mid-90s,
I must have been in my 20s,
And I was with my father in Jerusalem,
And it was the festival of Sukkot,
And it was in October.
And we bumped into somebody that Rav knew,
Who was,
Is seen as a great sage leader,
Whatever words you want to use.
And the Rav,
My father,
Was sharing with me why,
About this person,
Again,
It's not important who it was,
But that the worst part of somebody being blinded by their ego,
Especially if they're a leader,
Is that they'll never learn.
So he uses a parable that he heard from his teacher about this man who was a simple man who was working at,
You know,
This is hundreds of years ago,
Working at a palace of some local noblemen.
And the nobleman goes away for a week,
And the people in the palace decide,
Let's make a joke of this guy,
His name is Moshe,
Let's make fun,
Let's have some fun with him.
So one night they get him really,
Really,
Really drunk.
He drinks,
He drinks,
He drinks,
He gets drunk,
And they dress him up in the nobleman's,
In the master's sleeping gown,
And they put him to sleep in the nobleman's bed.
He wakes up in the morning,
And the servants come in,
Everybody's in on the joke,
They dress him up in the nobleman's clothes,
And he's looking around,
He says,
Wow,
One second,
I'm sleeping in the nobleman's bed,
I'm wearing his clothes,
All these people,
All the servants are serving me,
I must be the master.
Takes,
You know,
He's going back and forth because he knows that he wasn't the master,
Doesn't remember being the master last night,
But who knows,
You know,
Everybody else seems to think so.
So the day goes on like that,
Everybody keeps serving him,
They're having a laugh as they leave the room because this idiot actually thinks he's the master,
But he,
You know,
He goes along because,
You know,
Who doesn't want to be the master?
This goes on throughout the day.
Towards the end of the day,
He points to one of the rooms because the master,
The nobleman,
Was very learned,
He read many books,
He was very wise.
He said,
What's that room over there?
He says,
Oh,
This is your library,
Sir.
This is where you go to get all of your wisdom,
This is where you go to read,
And so on.
He enters into the room,
He looks around,
This guy never read,
Doesn't know how to read,
Doesn't know how to read or write.
He looks around the room,
He sees all these books,
Takes one out,
Opens it,
Can't tell what's up or down,
Can't read a sentence,
Can't read a word.
Stanley says to himself,
He says,
I'm the master here,
And I can't read any of these books.
So if I'm the top at the top,
And I can't read any of the books,
There probably isn't anybody in the world who can read any of the books.
Nobody has more wisdom than I,
So nobody could read these books.
So he decided that not only can he not learn anymore,
But that nobody can teach him,
Because if he's at the top,
He must know the most.
And my father was using this example about this person that we met,
That he was seen as a very big leader,
But unfortunately,
His ego got into such a place where he thought because he's at the top,
And the worst part of that blindness is that he will never learn.
And I think this is- Wait,
Wait,
You can't leave us hanging here.
It's just like Alison's still lost in the woods.
Why?
It's what happened to this guy.
He went on to be a leader.
Really?
Yeah,
Yeah,
Yeah.
No,
Not that guy.
The guy,
The dum-dum in the parable.
Oh,
Whatever.
But you've got to make an ending,
Honey.
Well,
Maybe you can make one.
You're much better writer than I.
Alison and him met in the wilderness.
Yes.
He started a family.
Yes,
Exactly.
But the point,
Of course,
Being,
And I think it's important not to think about it as a faraway parable,
But every one of us,
As a certain part of our lives within which we see ourselves as the master,
And the worst part of that ego is that it blinds us from new information,
Learning,
And growth.
And I just want to dovetail back to what you were saying before is that the real purpose of any leader must be change.
Change for the individual,
Change for those who are looking to him or her for leadership.
I would just add positive change though.
Of course.
Just saying.
Yes.
Okay.
So the third one,
Which leads to what you're saying is they're visionaries.
They see the big picture and what can be,
Especially in the midst of chaos,
They see potential where others see disaster.
They look forward and only look back for the sake of learning.
I think that's another great quality of a leader.
Another just chime in whenever you want.
They believe in the people that they're leading.
They see the greatness in others,
Which is a huge thing.
I think often when the ego is involved and a person's a leader,
If they're leading in the wrong way,
They knock other people down so they feel safe,
Secure,
Strong,
Powerful.
And I really believe the strongest way to see if a person is a great leader is if they see the greatness in those around them,
That they support them and that they protect them.
Believing in your people means there's no room or desire to micromanage,
Which will lead to the next part,
But I want to hear what you have to say about that.
Well,
I was going to just add two ideas to what you were saying.
You spoke about the fact that they have a vision,
Right?
Leaders are often seen as visionary.
And there's a beautiful teaching from a great Kabbalists who said that when we take upon ourselves leadership,
Which as we said before,
Is when we take upon ourselves the desire to be of service to others,
Really of service to others,
Then we're actually given wisdom,
Direction,
Vision that isn't even something we deserve,
But those that we are leading need and therefore it's given to us or through us.
There's Kodesh,
The great Kabbalists.
He said that one of the great benefits of desiring or deciding I'm going to help or lead one other person to 10 other people is the fact that now,
Regardless of whether you actually deserve whatever that word means,
More wisdom,
More direction,
More clarity,
You must be given it for the sake of those whom you're leading.
So you will get wisdom that you might not deserve.
You will get direction and inspiration.
And I think if you realize it's a very exciting idea that if you're able to attach your desire to lead,
But really to serve others,
You will be blessed way beyond even anything that you deserve.
It's kind of like if you put yourself,
It's in those films that are whimsical and cartoons and like I just saw Sing Too with Abigail.
When you put yourself in a position to lead,
Right,
Even especially when the outcome is unknown,
It's scary and you're not the obvious choice,
You get that kind of divine intervention or sight,
The gift of sight to lead because you've put yourself in the position to do so.
Is that what you're saying?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so much more.
But yes.
And the other thing which you said,
Which I think is so important,
Is the fact that a leader sees the greatness in others.
And I think that's so important for all of us parents,
Friends,
Certainly leaders in any capacity.
That probably is the most important part of what we do.
If a person looks at their child and does not see greatness and tries to help them grow,
They're going to miss a great opportunity.
If you're looking at your employees,
If you're looking at your friends,
Whoever again falls into the category of leadership and you don't see greatness,
Then get out of the game.
Because I think maybe the most important role of a leader is to see the greatness in others that they do not yet see within themselves.
And that is certainly true about children,
That is certainly true about friends.
Again,
The most important task of a leader is to help others discover the greatness within them that they might not see it.
And again,
It's interesting.
I was having a conversation today with somebody when he was talking about 2022 and goals and aspirations.
And I said,
And I strongly believe this,
I believe this about myself and I strongly believe this about all those who I have the opportunity to share with,
That our greatest lack of understanding is about how great we are.
And the question isn't,
How have I achieved whatever it is that I have achieved?
The only question really is why haven't I achieved so much more?
Because if I really understood who I was,
Whatever achievements,
And even if I have achievements and success,
I realize they pale in comparison to my true and great potential.
And I think that is such an important point that leaders,
Maybe their most important task is to,
And again,
As I said,
This is true of a parent,
This is true of anybody who's of service to another person.
It must be that they see and bring their friend,
Their child,
Their employees to seek greatness within themselves.
That certainly is there,
But that they have not yet found or believed it.
1,
000%.
And I think that what people do instead of really believing that they're great is they attach themselves to other people or things or opportunities.
And then if that doesn't work for whatever reason,
They're crushed and then they find themselves lost again.
And I know that that really works because that's,
You know,
Your parents were my mentors and they saw something in me I didn't see in myself.
And I could say the same about you when we started,
When we found each other,
It was the same thing.
And I think that sometimes when,
Again,
Somebody who is a true leader,
They look at you and they see your greatness,
They don't build you up,
But they recognize something in you and they give you enough attention or even just show you that you're that.
It can change everything.
But I do want to go into the micromanaging,
Which is the absolute worst kind of way to lead,
Actually.
You know,
And that's somebody who really is worried that you're working nine to five instead of,
You know,
If the person is a night owl and they'll be much more effective working from 11 to seven,
For instance.
But there was somebody who worked for me once and I'm going to call her Chicken Little because she ran around all the time saying,
Like,
The sky is falling,
Like everything was urgent,
Immediate and it was it was the end of the world.
So that was her name.
But she could really,
That's what I called her.
She controlled every aspect of the people that worked under her,
Their work hours,
The environment and projects.
She made a note of and this is literally I mean,
She was very ineffective,
Made a note of anyone who was even five minutes late.
One of the employees that struggles with the mornings,
He he just couldn't be there at that exact time.
So his talent,
His potential,
His dedication wasn't showing in the office because it was all about,
You know,
Was he there or not?
She monitored the time they took for lunch,
Caught.
She was even caught eavesdropping on staff.
It's private conversations.
Somebody worked for you?
Yes,
Unfortunately.
And she dismissed.
So they're no longer.
She no longer did.
She dismissed out of hand requests for salary increases on the premise.
People don't work here for the money.
So she didn't even like she never saw them.
So over three years,
The productivity of the team plummeted.
Work satisfaction was at an all time low.
But on paper,
Her weekly reports were six pages long,
Literally.
That's why it took me a minute to catch on to her.
And she gave the illusion of productivity because the effort was spent on ensuring that the appearance was stellar and not the work itself.
So of course,
I let her go.
The new manager reassessed the projects.
They were all on a different time schedule.
We trusted them to do the work and everything changed.
So that that never works.
But I think one of the ones that I was really excited about is that a true leader allows themselves and others to be imperfect.
And for me,
That really was a big one.
And I still do.
Like I always say to people,
You know,
I will make mistakes or I did make a mistake or I didn't see that.
Thank you for pointing it out.
I do that as a parent as well.
We do that in our relationship.
I think it's really important to own your stuff that makes you really strong,
That makes you seen,
That makes you be able to see other people.
And you create an environment where mistakes are not punished and people are then willing to take risks because they're not afraid of being attacked or corrected.
And the one really also one more,
They don't mind being unpopular,
Criticized.
They don't mind that people are against them and they don't hold grudges.
So I can say for me,
Being in in this leadership role now,
I think that the 20 years before where I was criticized,
I was very unpopular in certain situations and.
And I was attacked.
I mean,
I think that's really exactly what I needed to be able to step into these shoes now,
Because if not,
Who knows what kind of leader I would have become.
Right.
So I would add or underscore this idea that neither leader nor those who are being led are meant to be perfect.
As a matter of fact,
I think the greatest leaders are certainly the not only the imperfect ones because we're all imperfect,
But the imperfect ones who know that they're imperfect.
You know,
Moses,
Who I think is such a historical figure,
Certainly biblically,
When he was being chosen to be a leader,
His first reaction was,
No,
Not possible,
Because again,
He says,
I'm not a man of words.
I'm not somebody who knows how to orate.
I'm not somebody.
But again,
He had a lisp.
And I think.
A lisp or a stutter?
A lisp.
And when he was being chosen,
The creator actually said to him,
Those aspects of yourself that are not right,
That are not perfect,
Are not disqualifiers.
Rather they are the reason why you're the perfect person for the job.
And the Israelites criticized him.
Right.
And they didn't want to accept him as a leader.
And throughout his leadership in the 40 years,
He was very much attacked.
I mean,
That's part and parcel of being a leader.
But my point is that every one of our listeners,
As we said before,
Is a leader,
Is meant to be a leader,
Is meant to be a great leader.
And when you make that list of the reasons why,
Whether you do it consciously or unconsciously,
I can't be the leader because A,
B,
Or C,
Or whole of the above.
No,
Actually that's the reason.
Because especially if you have these disqualifiers,
Especially if you're aware of them,
It is actually from that place of vulnerability and imperfection that you are chosen to be a leader.
And I think it's again so important,
Again,
Whether as a parent or whether as a leader in any capacity,
Knowing that those list of reasons,
I'm this,
This,
And the other thing,
I don't have this,
That,
Or the other thing,
Those are the reasons why you will be a great leader.
By the way,
I think it's so important.
We've thrown around parenting a lot,
But I just think for all the parents out there just to stop for a second,
Especially if you're desiring to be really big in other parts of your life,
Right?
Like being a leader of an organization or a CEO,
Whatever it is,
You are impacting the most important lives of your life,
Right?
And don't underestimate your power.
They're looking to you for everything and you are creating,
You have the opportunity to be the greatest leader,
Right?
It doesn't matter if it's recognized or not or has a title that's sexier than being a parent.
I think often parents don't realize that.
I think that we have these conversations so often.
I'm always,
Even with having four now,
I treat each child,
They all teach me differently.
It's always a learning.
I'm always open to new styles,
Even though I think we were successful and still are with our older three.
Like Abigail gives us new opportunities to constantly be checking ourselves.
Could this be done differently?
Because they have different needs,
Right?
So I think that actually being a parent helps me be a better leader in my other roles,
Not the other way around.
Absolutely.
And I think that which we're saying that from the imperfections arise the greatest forces of leadership.
There's actually a phrase,
Again,
An ancient Kabbalistic phrase that says that a leader can never be a leader unless he or she has failed.
That failure or failings are actually the foundation upon which true leadership can be based.
And going back,
And this is related to what we were saying earlier,
The fact that when the individual has desire to be of service to others,
That by and within itself makes them a leader.
All of the qualities will follow.
Vision,
Inspiration,
And so on.
And I'll just,
I think,
End with something that I know I wrote to you in one of our other birthday cards.
It was an anniversary.
I think it was our 20th anniversary because,
What do you mean I remembered?
If you had read my book,
Rethink Love,
It's actually in there.
Of course I read your book.
It was one of those beautiful things you ever said to me.
Oh,
So share it.
No,
I want to see if you remember it.
The fact that,
Again,
I probably won't quote it exactly.
It's not in your failings or your faults,
That one?
No.
You should read the book again.
Okay.
No,
That I said that it's not that you are perfect as a mother,
As a wife,
As a person.
It's that you desire to become better at all of them all the time.
That was the second most beautiful thing you said to me.
Ah,
See,
I got you.
Well,
The one that I was saying was,
In your failings and your faults is when the most beautiful parts of yourself are revealed.
Nice.
Which,
By the way,
Does go to the.
.
.
Good writing,
Michael Bird.
Yeah,
Not too bad.
Maybe you should write another book.
But yes,
I do love that.
But I do want to underscore that because it is so important.
And again,
Especially speaking to our listeners,
When that list comes up of,
I'm not good at this,
I'm not perfect at that.
That thought process of I need to get better at this and that and the other,
That is the reason that you are and will be a better leader.
If ever,
By the way,
If ever in our process,
We suddenly feel,
Oh no,
I'm actually the perfect leader.
Oh,
I'm actually the perfect in this and that.
And then it's probably lost.
By the way,
That really did change the way,
How I treated myself as a parent.
I think David,
Our oldest,
Was probably eight at the time.
And I was like,
Oh my God,
He's our first.
Are we really messing up here?
I would add,
And even with the other three at the time,
Constantly you said to me,
The fact that you keep asking the question if you're a good parent means that you are because you're constantly trying to learn more,
Be more,
Be better.
And that really took the pressure off of me.
It helped me stop and say,
Okay,
Wait a second,
I can't be tragically bad.
I'm doing an okay job and I'll do better and better because that's where my head's at.
No,
It really,
Really did help me.
There's always more to say,
But Michael's looking at the time.
No,
Not looking at the time.
Should I add another one?
I was going to say,
I was going to ask you if there's one or two takeaways for our listeners.
Yes,
We mentioned this part,
But I think leading yourself before you can lead others is key.
You have to be able to be that for yourself before you can effectively do that for others.
True leaders,
Like true healers,
Don't create a dynamic of dependency.
I always,
Any one of my students,
I was like,
I hope that you outgrow me at some point.
I want you to learn to do this for yourself.
I'm not the kind.
Of course,
There will always be,
But I want the teacher-student relationship to keep elevating because they're learning and then I can offer more and more,
But in different ways.
It's the opposite of dependency.
True leaders don't need to be anyone's savior or hero or guru.
If they truly care for you,
They'll teach you to lead yourself.
So I think that encompasses kind of everything that we spoke about.
The other thing I do want to leave our listeners with is that I think what often stops people from being a great leader is fear.
Fear to even try,
Right?
Because maybe they're not capable.
Maybe they don't have enough value to add.
Maybe they're not feeling worthy enough to be listened to or respected.
Maybe they don't respect themselves.
They might not meet people's expectations.
So I think anytime you have that voice in your head,
Know that it's just the ego.
It's just the other side and it's a dead end.
So again,
I mean,
I think everything we spoke about is so powerful,
But what I really want the takeaway to be is that it really starts and ends with you,
Right?
You have to be a leader for yourself.
In order to do that,
You have to believe in yourself enough.
And when you do that,
Fear is just erased and removed.
Yeah,
I would just add again as a takeaway that leadership is not a choice,
Meaning our listeners do not have a choice whether they will or won't be a leader.
You want to be happy?
You want to be fulfilled?
You want to actually achieve your soul's purpose?
Then you must step up to leadership.
That doesn't necessarily mean leading millions,
But it does mean leading yourself,
Like you said,
Or your family or your friends or a larger group than that.
Being of service in that way is actually at the core of what we came to this world to be and to do.
And the second part to that is,
Like you said,
Don't look at the things you're not perfect at and say,
That's why I can't be a leader.
That's why I can't lead.
As I said before,
There's a beautiful teaching in the Zohar,
But a great leader's name was Yiftach.
He had a long list of reasons why he should not,
Could not be a leader.
But the Zohar says because he had desire to do good for others,
The verse in the Bible says,
Go with this strength.
You will not be perfect.
None of us are.
You will not be having all the qualities in their perfect state.
A desire to do good to others,
Everything else will flow from that.
Everything else will flow from that.
And maybe the third is whether you're leading yourself,
Whether you're leading others,
The most important job task of a leader is to,
For themselves and for others,
To awaken an understanding and appreciation of how limitless the potential,
Limitless the potential that I have,
That you have,
That every person with whom we have influence has.
What's like the episode we did a few weeks back about lollipop moments and everyday leadership involves those infinite opportunities that are available to us every day.
I mean,
Just not to take that for granted.
And I want to leave you with this quote that I really like from Lao Cha.
And he said,
A leader is best when people barely know he exists.
When his work is done,
His aim fulfilled,
They will say we did it ourselves.
Beautiful.
Beautiful.
Nothing to add to that,
Except continue to support this podcast by subscribing to it,
Whether it's on Apple,
On Spotify,
On YouTube,
On Facebook,
And sharing it with all your friends and family keeps sending us your questions,
Stories,
Inspirations to Monica and Michael at kabbalah.
Com.
And we hope you enjoyed listening to this podcast as much as we enjoyed recording it.
Stay spiritually hungry.
And we'll see you next time.
