Self And No-Self In Meditation - Episode 12

Hello,

My name is Michelle and welcome to episode 12 on self and no self in meditation.

So you may be able to hear that I have the flu,

I have a cold and so my voice is somewhat dull and strained.

So let's see if I can get through this teaching that's about understanding our conditioned constructed individual self and also understanding our deeper interconnected collective true nature or called true self in western psychology.

And my hope is that we can learn to understand both concepts so that we can be more able to both accept each and let go of each of them in a non-dualistic middle way.

Let's start with a five minute meditation.

Finding a place to sit comfortably where you won't be disturbed.

Becoming aware of your breathing and don't worry if you lose contact with your awareness of your breathing.

And instead get caught in thinking because that's natural when one is beginning to meditate.

And you need to learn how to relax and still your mind first and then it will just become an automatic habit.

So for now allowing your physical stillness to relax and still your mind.

So we start by making a gentle effort to be present and aware and as we relax the mind naturally settles and becomes more still and clear.

So coming back to the episode feeling a bit more relaxed present and aware.

I'd like to start this teaching by sharing my intention for this episode on self and no self in meditation.

The intention is to offer a balanced and realistic approach to understanding both self and no self in meditation practice.

And my intention for the whole Nature of Meditation podcast is to transmit wholesome peaceful energy and true meditation teachings.

As best I can at the specific time,

Place and condition I find myself in at the time of making an episode.

Just to add I also receive meditation mentoring and supervision from experienced Chan masters and Dharma teachers and their guidance and support are invaluable.

In creating this podcast so to aid clarity and understanding I'm separating this episode into three main sections or parts.

In the first part I'll present the widely accepted academic understanding of the individual self,

The ego I,

Me,

Mine in Buddhist teachings.

In the second part I'll present the widely accepted academic understanding of no self in Buddhist teachings.

And in the third middle way I attempt to bring equanimity and compassion to our understanding of both the individual self and the interconnected collective no self because they are not separate from each other and cannot be separate from each other.

And separating the two understandings is a kind of adversarial unkind act of division.

So I'm presenting the theory of the individual self,

The ego first and then I'm presenting the theory of no self,

The interconnected collective no self in Buddhism,

Referred to as the true self in Western psychology,

In transpersonal psychology,

Which is the technical term for spiritual psychology.

And I'm presenting both theories so as not to get caught in either of them or use either theory as an ego apparatus.

So again,

The intention is to be compassionate and keep the heart and mind open to to what is truly present,

To keep the heart and mind open to reality as it truly is.

So not getting attached to any theory or ideology or dogma because meditation doesn't require anything artificial to be constructed or in play.

So not being bound to any particular doctrine,

Theory or ideology,

Even Buddhist ones.

Being able to experience with openness and the insight of interbeing.

In order to transform dogmatism and violence in ourselves and in our way of thinking.

So turning to the theory of the individual self,

The individual ego,

According to Buddhist teachings,

The individual self is a man-made,

It's also nature-made,

It's a nature man and woman made,

Naturally,

Socially and culturally made,

Conditioned and constructed in a way individual self.

And this individual self believes that it's a separate fixed entity.

We go through our life experiencing through the lens of this individual,

Separate,

Unique self unique self and also at the same time collective.

So again it's both and,

Not either or.

This individual self that is at once unique and has collective identity markers such as ethnicity,

Sexuality,

Ability,

Age,

Gender,

Religion,

Politics,

Etc.

So it's both unique and collective at the same time.

And although it is largely collective,

This,

The individual ego,

Tends to be self-centered,

Self-referential and self-absorbed.

And there's the continuously running soap opera commentary that goes on in one's mind,

In the individual's mind,

The so-called non-stop radio,

Me,

Mine,

I,

Constantly thinking about things referred back to the individual.

To a certain degree it's natural and necessary to be continuously relating things back to oneself.

Because as I've already suggested,

We are created,

Conditioned and co-constructed through our relational,

Psychological,

Social,

Cultural,

And environmental conditioning,

Dynamics and relationships.

So our experience of others in the world does create us to a certain extent,

Through images,

Patterns,

Norms,

Codes,

Scripts,

Theories,

Beliefs and doctrines.

That flow through cultures,

Religions,

Politics,

Through hearts and minds,

In society,

In communities,

Continually co-creating and recreating themselves and other things.

The nature of these cultural and social and theoretical patterns or streams,

Also spiritual patterns,

Karmic patterns,

Ancestral patterns of collective consciousness,

That continuously imprint and reprint and repeat themselves.

Their true nature is to continue,

So that for an English person,

You use the same language and the same cultural and social norms and codes and patterns,

And forms,

And attitudes and behaviours and mindsets that other English people use,

That are different from,

Say,

Spanish language patterns,

Humour,

Attitudes,

Mindsets.

So we condition ourselves and each other to perceive and experience the world in specific ways,

According to the causes and conditions,

And place and time we are,

We're at.

So,

For example,

Experiencing life as a Christian,

Buddhist,

Russian,

African,

Etc.

So when our belief in our individual self becomes too rigid and becomes fixed,

This can have a detrimental impact on our mental health.

And it's for this reason that the individual separate self is seen as the root cause of suffering in Buddhism.

This constant referring everything back to the individual self,

The I,

Me,

Mine.

And the individual self,

The individual ego,

According to Buddhist theory,

Is not a separate,

Fixed,

Permanent and unchanging entity,

But rather an ever-changing,

Highly-conditioned entity.

Paradoxically,

Ever-continuing and ever-changing.

Now,

There is often a misconception in Buddhism and in meditation,

Teaching and practice that meditation is about seeing through this individual self and letting go of it.

Becoming less caught up in oneself and experiencing a more natural and holy self that is more open and connected.

Experiencing the so-called nirvana,

The no-self.

So now I will talk about the Buddhist theory on no-self.

No-self is often privileged in the Buddhist community over and above the idea of the individual self.

But it's a mistake to privilege the theory of no-self over self,

Because those are both theories coming from the mind,

The cognitive mind,

Not from nature.

And this just sets up a cognitive-cerebral duality that tends to be adversarial,

Antagonistic,

And it's unhelpful and unkind.

So turning to the theory of no-self,

Buddhist no-self theory teaches that there's no permanent,

Unchanging,

Separate self.

The individual is seen as a temporary collection of changing aggregates,

Form,

Feelings,

Perceptions,

Mental formations,

And consciousness,

And highly dependent on and attached to generational,

Social,

Cultural,

And environmental causes and conditions.

Recognizing this impermanence helps the individual detach from their self-centeredness,

And it can foster compassion,

Leading to liberation,

Through experiencing the collective interconnectedness of true reality.

But not through denying individual existence.

So yes,

Developing the capacity to be selfless and experience inter-being,

Experience interconnected oneness,

That is true nature.

But not doing that through needing or having to cut anything out of the experience.

It's just that in the experience of no-self,

One does not refer back to the individual.

There is no inclination,

Need,

Intention,

There is no mental or emotional action of turning one's attention,

One's focus,

One's energy onto one individual self.

That's not part of the experience of no-self.

And yet to get to that experience of no-self,

We cannot get there through any violent act at all,

Including violence against the individual.

The individual consciousness just naturally recedes,

Dissipates,

And disappears for a few moments,

And then it's gone.

It's gone for a few moments,

A few minutes,

Even a few hours,

Depending on the level of experience of the practitioner.

So the theory of no-self in Buddhism is based on the fact that the individual is made of other individuals,

Many others,

Mother,

Father,

Grandmother,

Grandfather,

Other ancestors,

Cultures,

Societies,

Elements,

Other causes and conditions.

Within the one,

The individual,

We can easily find the interconnected,

Collective,

Non-separate all.

All is in the one,

And the one is in the all.

So you could say that in this episode,

I'm arguing that we cannot take the one out of the all.

And demonizing the separate individual is a futile activity that cannot lead to connection and the experience of true nature or nirvana.

Individuals inter-exist with everything else.

In others exists the self,

And in the self exists others.

And many religions and esoteric and psychological teachings about the individual have understood this,

That they inter-exist with everything else.

And it's a common ancient wisdom across religions and traditions,

Across space and time.

So Buddhist theory on no-self recognizes that we are inherently free of a separate individual self.

And therefore in meditation practice,

We're already free of self-referentiality,

Self-centeredness,

Self-attachment,

Self-concern,

Self-preoccupation.

We're already free of those things,

Even if the individual self hasn't yet experienced the interconnected freedom of nature as it truly is.

And that is always there.

So now in this third section,

I'd like to speak about the middle way.

So in the Buddhist context,

The separate individual self,

The ego,

Usually has a negative connotation.

And the collective interconnected true non-self is seen as more holistic.

More holy and superior,

Creating a kind of good cop,

Bad cop soap opera.

With the individual ego being the unholy villain,

And the interconnected true no-self being sacred.

But Buddhist theory on no-self is not saying that originally we were connected with everything and there is no-self.

And then the ego comes along into being.

It's not saying that.

And it's not saying that as a good Buddhist or a good meditation practitioner,

We're not connected to everything.

We need to dismantle and let go of the individual separate self,

The ego.

It's not saying that either.

Nor is Buddhist theory on no-self saying that the collective interconnected no-self has always existed as if the no-self is something real.

And the separate individual is something false.

So it's not setting up no-self as something real and individual as something false.

And it's not saying that we need to realize that the interconnected no-self doesn't exist as well as the individual.

It's not saying absolutely nothing exists.

Earlier on this podcast,

I did speak about nothingness.

So one way of looking is to say that nothing is real,

Nothing exists.

But nothing is more or less real than anything else,

Including nothing itself.

Nothing itself is no more real or false than anything else.

So we're not privileging nothing as better or worse than anything else.

So the individual separate self and the interconnected no-self,

Called true self in Western transpersonal psychology.

Neither of those things are things that we ourselves can either create or get rid of.

We cannot get rid of the individual or create it.

We cannot get rid of nothing or create nothing.

We cannot get rid of our individual separate self and we cannot get rid of our collective interconnected no-self true nature.

That is not possible.

So the mistaken assumption that's an idea,

A theory,

A mental activity or a psychological delusion,

That we can get rid of the individual ego,

Even having that idea of becoming less egoistic,

Is itself means that we recognize that we have an individual separate self as something that exists.

So it's just an idea of the no-self.

Or put another way,

The idea of no-self or of the idea of self are both ideas.

But in the experience of no-self,

We are not using our cognitive mind,

We're not thinking.

So there are no ideas,

There are no ideas of the individual at all and there are no ideas of the collective no-self at all.

We are merely in pure perception and pure experience without any thoughts at all.

So the reason why there's no individual is not because we're not referring things back to ourselves as an individual,

It's because we're not thinking at all about anything.

So it's not that thinking about the individual is the only thing to stop.

All thinking stops,

All thoughts,

Doctrines,

Dogma,

Is not part of the experience of true nature.

So the correct Buddhist theory on no-self then is that there already and always is an natural,

Innate,

Inborn,

Interconnected,

Ancestors given,

If you're religious you could say god and goddess given,

Open and free,

Interconnected,

True nature,

But is always there.

Even there in the midst of individual discriminating,

Selfing,

Grasping,

Rejecting.

So our true nature is always there as is argued in transpersonal psychology.

Our true nature is always there,

It's our foundation,

It's our true self.

Even if and even when our individual mind is working over time thinking about itself.

But of course there's more to oneself than just thinking about oneself.

So thinking about oneself all the time doesn't mean one is not a much bigger,

Connected,

More holy being that is interbeing with other things.

So in the midst of the individual separate self there is the interconnected true nature,

The no-self,

Given to us by nature,

By our ancestors,

By generations,

Cultures,

Societies,

By the causes and conditions of our environment.

And in western psychology this is referred to as a true self,

In buddhism it's referred to as no-self.

So my middle way approach then is that not only can we let go of the experience of the separate individual ego,

That is not only can we get over ourselves and stop thinking of ourselves,

Worrying about ourselves,

Concerning ourselves about ourselves,

Expending all our time and energy on ourselves,

We can also get over and let go of the theory of no-self.

Because both existence and non-existence are both true.

So there is something individual and unique,

That is true,

And there is also something interconnected,

Collective,

And not concerned with the individual self,

That is also true.

And I believe that we all have the compassionate capacity to allow for a more kind and realistic understanding and approach that includes both our individual self and our collective true nature,

Our no-self nature.

Because for me this is a more balanced and realistic way of understanding and it's also more true.

No one can be in our no-self true nature all the time,

Even the most advanced meditation practitioners and zen masters are not constantly permanently in their true nature.

That is no one can be empty of a separate self all the time,

That's not possible.

And to imagine hope or wish that you can is itself an ego project coming from your individual mind.

Such an agenda or theory doesn't exist in the state of nirvana,

Where there are no thoughts,

No agendas,

No projects at all.

So let's draw to a close slowly,

Gradually,

With some meditation.

And meditation is fresh discovery of what's in our field of awareness as new experience in the present moment,

Just as it is whatever it is,

Without judgment.

So if I'm planning something about my future,

Or thinking about my future,

Or worrying about my future,

Or thinking about my past,

Then at that moment I can consciously realize that's what I'm doing.

And it's the act of realization that matters here.

It doesn't matter if I'm thinking,

It matters to be honest about what's going on.

And honesty is an important part of meditation practice,

That strangely is undervalued and seems to be disregarded.

But meditation is being fearlessly honest with oneself,

Because we're not afraid of the truth,

We're not afraid of reality,

And we're not afraid of human nature.

So meditation is both disrupting our alignment to individual self-identification,

Activity,

Mental activity,

And also disrupting our alignment to the idea or the concept or the theory of being free and empty and selfless.

Because if you're striving to be free,

Empty and selfless,

Then that itself is an ego project.

One's true nature,

No self,

Doesn't use the cognitive function,

Doesn't use any ideas or theories,

So it doesn't need to be selfless or empty or free,

Because it just naturally is already,

Just as we already are free.

Free to allow space for whatever's in our field of awareness in the moment,

Free to experience our reality of no self,

Our reality of oneself,

Free to experience the wave and the ocean.

So let's move to the end of this episode on self and no self in meditation.

Let's begin by being honest with ourselves in our meditation practice.

At times,

Sometimes,

I'm told sometimes is a good word.

Sometimes we may be experiencing our individual self and we may be caught in that domain,

In that dimension.

And sometimes we may be experiencing our open,

Interconnected,

True nature that is no self,

Not concerned with our individual self in those moments.

Not concerned with our individual self,

Not because there is no self,

But because we are free of it and it's interconnected with everything else,

And we're not concerned with the individual,

Or actively using the individual construct at all in moments of no self.

So let's now just sit,

Say,

For five minutes,

And the invitation is to be aware of what's in your field of awareness in the present moment.

And again,

You may like to use an anchor to help you stay present by focusing on your breathing,

Or it could be your hand.

You could be resting your gaze gently on the floor,

Or on the wall,

Or object in front of you,

Gazing downwards.

And it helps to have an upright spine,

It really does.

That can really help you stay aware,

And alert,

And present.

So enjoying whatever's present for you,

Whether it's thinking about yourself,

Or feeling more open and expansive and free.

Free to not have to perceive anything in particular,

Free to not have to think of anything in particular,

Free to not have to be doing anything right or wrong.

Okay,

Just being now for five minutes.

Coming to a close of this episode,

That I hope you can find some,

Some of it helpful in some way.

Thank you for listening.

And apologies for my very husky,

Subdued,

Strained voice.

I enjoyed creating this episode for you,

And look forward to sharing more with you next month.

Bye-bye.