093: How I Beat Cancer Twice And The Lessons I Uncovered - George P. Kansas

Welcome to Noble Warrior.

This is a place where entrepreneurs talks about what it takes to create a purpose driven life.

We're going to talk about mindset,

Mental models,

Actionable tactics,

Such that you can go out and create your own purpose driven life.

My name is CK Lin,

Former PhD researcher from UCLA.

I've been a director of a University of California.

I've been a startup executive.

I've been an executive coach.

I'm on a quest to create a life of purpose and meaning and joy and fulfillment.

My next guest is a leukemia survivor.

He's an author.

He's a coach.

Just being through the,

The,

The ups and downs of life.

And I'm so pleased to have George Kansas with us.

Thank you so much for being here,

George.

Thank you,

CK.

It's great to be here.

Really enjoying,

I'm enjoying this.

Yeah,

Thank you.

So why don't we actually jump right into it?

Being a leukemia survivor,

You being speaking to groups of cancer survivors everywhere.

Your role is to help them find new meanings and new purpose in your light,

Having gone through,

Or having faced rather death or the possibility of death.

So I'm curious to know there's probably a parallel lessons that you can share with us,

Giving the COVID situation is going on.

People are looking at their businesses,

Need to reinventing themselves,

Need to watch out for their physical safety.

Need to look at relief safety,

Right?

Giving them social distancing and staying at home.

I'm curious to know if you can tell us what have you learned having gone through leukemia twice,

What you can share with them?

Great question.

Thank you,

CK.

What's important,

I would say,

As a context was that some of the things that I learned as a result of the healing experiences were as much affirmations of ways I had approached life long before any diagnosis of illness.

And why that's important is because I had worked with athletes and C level executives before I ever was sick and essentially teaching them the same thing,

The same things.

And what was really potent for me is the healing experiences affirmed for me that these philosophies,

These ways of being,

These axiom that I was living by were on the right track.

And while I probably,

I may have preferred not to have such dramatic affirmations,

They were potent nonetheless.

And how they're relevant to right now,

For instance,

One of the things I always lived by was the universe always puts me exactly where I need to be.

That's just something I always used to say,

Meaning that would force me no matter what it felt or looked like.

That belief,

That philosophy always forced me to look at whatever situation I was in as an opportunity to find more of me.

So even if it felt like this is horrible,

But if I know that the universe puts me exactly where I need to be,

Then I know that my purpose is meant to be served here somehow.

Just as an example,

With the hospital example,

I was diagnosed with leukemia.

I was diagnosed at a stage of the disease where the entirety of my bone marrow had been consumed by cancer.

So literally I had no bone marrow where bone marrow is supposed to be.

And I remember my sister at the time,

I was about five days into the hospital,

Five out of 28 day stay where my sister was like,

Why is this happening to you?

You just started a charity.

You're doing all this good work.

You're working with really important people,

Blah,

Blah,

Blah,

Blah.

And really sad for me and not understanding why this was.

And I reached into that belief,

That knowing of mine,

That if the universe puts me exactly where I need to be,

Why am I here?

And I,

Without even hesitating,

I said to her,

Because I can give this experience a voice.

I've been speaking professionally,

I've been traveling around the world,

I've been writing books.

I can create something from this experience that actually helps people.

And that sense of purpose,

Just from that place,

I brought a different version of myself,

Like a really purposeful version of myself to my healing.

I brought my meditation into the hospital.

I set up an altar.

I did all of my practices right there.

I brought every resource of my conscious,

My spiritual,

My physical,

Every resources I could bring to bear on that purpose.

And knowing and having a knowing in me that I would tell this story someday made a huge difference.

I remember one time,

Three o'clock,

I was all immunocompromised.

I had no immune system.

I had no healthy white blood cells in my system.

So I couldn't touch anybody.

I couldn't come into contact with anybody.

What's going on now?

But one night,

Three o'clock in the morning,

I'm wheeling myself through the hospital corridors,

Masks,

Gloves,

Whole PPE outfit,

My chemotherapy pole in one hand and my blood transfusion pole in the other,

Wheeling through the hospital.

I rounded a corner and I almost collided with one of the interns charged with my care.

And she's like,

Mr.

Kansas,

What are you doing out of your room?

I said,

I was going stir crazy in my room.

I had to get out and get some exercise.

See the parallels to what's going on now.

And she says,

I have to tell you,

You are one of the healthiest people in this hospital.

Now,

Mind you,

I had no bone marrow.

I was really in trouble.

My whole body's consumed with cancer,

But she could tell underneath my mask that I was smiling.

And she said,

Why are you always so happy?

And I said,

Now,

Why,

But how?

Yeah,

Right.

How,

Right.

I said,

This is going to make a great speech someday.

And she was just blown away.

That was my perspective.

And that was authentic.

Like I really was.

I see Kate,

Did you ever read the book by Victor Frankel,

Man's Search for Meaning?

Yeah.

Beautiful book.

Yeah.

And I remember hearing a mentor of mine,

Just a beautiful human being,

A Zig Ziglar told the story of how Victor Frankel,

When he was giving a graduation speech,

Said to the graduates,

I have,

You and I have never met,

But I've stood before you and delivered this speech 10,

000 times.

And Victor Frankel reflected later on that vision,

That image of him sharing this wisdom while he was in the concentration camps of Auschwitz,

Nazi Germany.

He said that the vision of him teaching what he was learning from that experience was his purpose.

And I remember that so vividly.

And I remember remembering that in the hospital and thinking,

Why else would this be happening to me of the people whose ear I have,

The leaders who I coach and the thought leaders and the conversation leaders that I influence.

That's why this is happening to me.

And yeah,

I just believe that.

Yeah,

What a beautiful story.

Thank you.

It's easy to teach theories and wisdom while everything's going great.

Everything's sunny and there's waiters giving you Mai Tais,

Whatever drink that you love with your significant other on the sandy beach.

It's really easy to preach about resilience and adversity and grit,

But when you're in the middle of the hurricane,

As you did,

You literally were facing compromised immune system.

It's probably very painful.

Every step of the way you had to rule yourself into taking the next step.

That's the true testament of your faith,

Right?

So you had an image in your mind that,

Hey,

Everything I'm doing going through right now is for a reason and I'm going to make a speech one day.

So that's a concrete vision that you had.

Nonetheless,

How do you deal with the doubt?

The,

What if I don't make it the,

Oh my God,

This is so painful.

Please just let it end.

Just whatever the neurotic thoughts is going on your mind.

And then ask this question,

Not specifically to you,

But for the people who are listening or watching this right now,

Who may be thinking like,

Oh my God,

So painful.

My spouse and I were fighting at home because we didn't see anyone else.

My business is whatever my 40% of my revenue is gone because of COVID or my physical safety.

I'm concerned for my parents are old and they,

They're also getting stir crazy as well.

During those moments of tests,

How were you able to quam the internal chaos and you continue to see that vision that,

You know,

That you,

You wanted to turn into a speech that inspires people,

Give them hope.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

I love the question.

CK,

The,

This is so important,

This question,

Because a lot of,

There may have been a time when a younger version of me would have said something like,

Just hold on to that picture of that good picture,

That picture of the future that you're holding and just hold onto it,

No matter what thought comes up.

And just that you may have heard the expression,

Fake it till you make it.

And there may have been a time when I would have said yes and fake it till you make it,

Just hold on and plow through.

And what I've learned is what my wife and I,

Tracy,

We worked together and in our work,

We say,

Don't fake it till you make it,

Feel it to reveal it.

And why we say that is because pretending that those feelings,

That fear,

That doubt,

That disillusionment,

That frustration,

That anger,

Pretending that those emotions aren't there in my belief is that actually doesn't help,

That it actually holds us back.

There's great freedom in recognizing the doubt,

Not in the sense that we're not in the not indulging it,

Not going down the rabbit hole,

But just recognizing that doubt.

And if I just take a breath and really drop in and immediately I can go to that place and feel in my body,

The fear or the anxiety or the doubt.

And what if it doesn't turn out?

What if COVID lasts another 18 months?

And what if?

And of course,

We could totally go down that rabbit hole,

Get so depressed and hide under the bed.

We can do that.

But what I think just recognizing that the fear or the doubt or whatever is there without pretending that it's not allows us then to say,

Okay,

I know that's there.

What can I do?

And when we focus,

Even if it's a tiny little bit on what we can do,

Even if it's just,

Oh,

Okay.

And the worst case scenario was I might die.

And for a couple of weeks there,

I pretty much went to bed every night certain I wasn't going to wake up the next morning.

And so what I would do is,

Okay,

I'm going to take an hour and just do everything I could do in that hour,

As long as I could stay awake or keep my focus or the energy on it and prepare for that eventuality.

I had already created a will.

I had already,

The arrangements had already been made for my children.

I wasn't anxious about that,

But that often I've talked to tens of thousands of cancer patients.

That's often a big anxiety for them,

But it's really an anxiety for everybody.

What do we do in the worst case scenario?

Do you have those things in place?

And if you don't,

That will draw emotional energy on you,

Even if you're not paying attention to it.

It'll nudge in the background of your mind.

So what I started to do in the hospital,

What I could do was I could start writing that next book.

And I started writing a book about death and cancer and survivorship and hope.

And I started writing about bridging the gap between fear and hope and meditating,

Putting conditions into place that support that highest vision.

And so if I only had 15 minutes where I could stay awake with enough energy,

I would focus that on writing.

I would take myself through the same process that I probably taken thousands of people through before I call it emotional archeology.

It's basically a step-by-step process to get to really dial in on the most important stuff.

And what I think is relevant to people now in our situation is we might be limited to what we actually can do.

For instance,

My wife and I ordinarily will host live events.

We can't host live events in a hotel ballroom anymore,

But we can do virtual gatherings on whatever platform lets us look at each other.

And we made the shift and started gathering with people online and virtually.

So that's one thing we can do.

We can keep doing the work to keep on top of our game.

That's another thing we can do.

We can continue to network in other ways,

Telephone,

Email,

Social media,

Et cetera.

We can do the work so that we don't let the negatives crawl in there and have fear take over too much of our attention.

And so this idea of dealing with fear,

Part of it is recognizing that it's there.

Another part of it is doing what you can.

Another part of it is I work with clients.

I say,

It's not who you are.

The fear,

The emotion,

The anger,

Whatever it is,

It's not who you are.

It won't last forever.

And you're not alone.

So those three steps always have helped me.

Like,

Okay,

Even if I'm in terror,

I know that the terror won't last forever.

I've been in that moment.

Oh,

My God,

I could die.

I could die.

I could die.

I could die and have that terror possess my body.

But I know it won't last forever.

Even if I stayed in it,

Eventually it would peter out.

Won't last forever.

It won't last forever.

And then that I know that's not me.

It's not who I am.

It's an emotion running through my body.

It's energy running through my nervous system.

My nervous system is doing its job feeling.

We can talk about that later.

And then I'm not alone.

Now,

Ultimately,

I was alone in my hospital room,

But I knew I had family members who loved me.

I had my children who cared about me.

I knew that I had a community that cared about me.

And we got letters and emails and newspaper articles written about it.

I knew that there were a lot of people praying for me and holding the intention of my well-being.

But ultimately,

If none of that was there,

I always knew the truth,

As I have come to understand it,

Of myself as a spiritual being was infinitely connected to every other being in the universe.

And in that regard,

I'm never alone.

And so it won't last forever.

It's not who I am.

And I'm not alone.

Actually,

It feels true for me.

Yeah.

Does that answer your question?

I mean,

That two minutes could be a whole webinar,

Whole book.

It has been.

Right.

So let me recreate what you just said.

So yes,

Hold that vision,

But don't grasp it.

And also,

So feel whatever emotions that comes up,

Let it flow through you.

Because they're real,

But not true.

They're just temporary states that's flowing through you right now.

And from that place,

Focus on your own sphere of influence.

Take micro steps towards it,

Whether it be set up the environment properly,

Whether it be taking micro steps towards realizing that vision,

Which is what you did.

You started writing the book,

Letting that experience wisdom flow through you during that time.

So think when you get out,

Whatever manuscript that you produce could be useful for others.

Yes.

I hear that.

And also the third thing is also remember that you're not by yourself.

This is temporary.

You're not doing this by yourself.

And in the grander scheme of things,

You're here for a reason.

Did I capture the main point?

Yeah,

Absolutely.

Beautifully said.

Yeah,

I really like that.

Taking micro step part because,

And I'll share this with actually two parts I wanted to highlight.

One is during my younger days,

My name literally means strong will in Chinese.

So during my younger days,

I will my way through any internal resistance or external resistance.

And because I thought that's how we're supposed to do it.

Very much intentionality.

I will be true kind of approach to life.

Yeah.

And I would actually suppress any kind of negative thoughts or emotion that comes up.

And after a little while,

I came to realize,

Well,

A few different realizations.

One,

Suppress emotions and thoughts eventually will come up.

They may come up with disease,

They may come up with neurosis,

They may come up with depression,

Or whatever it may be.

It's like trying to push down a beach ball into the ocean.

When I let go,

It's gonna pop back up somewhere somehow.

One,

If I don't deal with it.

The second thing is a more productive way to integrate it,

To resolve it actually is,

As you said,

To feel it completely.

Once it's acknowledged and it disappears,

Just like the waves of the ocean washed over me.

So I'm all about efficacy.

So I was like,

Oh,

Okay,

Suppression doesn't work,

Denial doesn't work.

Integration works a whole lot better.

Let's use that approach.

So that's my new approach to really feeling and integrating all of my thoughts,

Emotion and sensations that's coming up.

I love it.

I love it.

And I love your focus on efficacy.

Because if emotion,

For instance,

Is energy,

And it's really the energy of information,

It may not always be accurate information,

But it's information nonetheless.

It's our bodies or our nervous systems trying to tell our mind something.

And so if it's suppressed,

It's going to find a way to express itself.

In my experience,

If emotion unexpressed will express itself somehow,

And the smart folks figure out a way to express it constructively and intentionally,

Rather than be subject to it.

And there's a piece there about knowing that if I let that information and energy flow through me,

And it's here to teach me something,

If I attend to it,

There could be real gifts in that.

And it could be attending to it could simply mean just acknowledging,

Oh,

I have an itch.

Acknowledging it could just be scratch the itch.

It could be,

Oh,

I didn't file my taxes.

And the attending to it could just mean sending an email to the accountant saying,

Hey,

Are we on track to file my taxes?

The emotion,

The energy is gone.

Once it's out of our body,

Our nervous system has more resources to attend to what's actually present,

Which is actually what we're here for.

Right?

You and I can serve our greatest purpose by being present.

If we're worried about tomorrow,

We can't be present to serve our purpose.

If we're guilty about or resentful about yesterday,

We can't be present to serve our purpose.

And tending to these emotions,

I really believe that when they teach us and we're willing to take note of what they're here to teach us,

To just attend to them,

Put them on a list or actually get it done and out of the way,

And then huge amounts of energy are freed up to be more present,

To be more of service,

To speak our truth,

To serve our purpose,

To speak our message,

Whatever the case may be.

Yeah.

So we can look at what we're talking about here.

By the way,

Guys,

If you're watching this,

You can look at it from a psychospecial point of view,

Which is how we're talking about it right now.

But you can also look at it from just pure functionality point of view.

If you think about your creativity,

Your physical energy,

Your emotionality as fuel tanks,

Right?

My friend,

Nick Sullivan,

One of the previous guests,

Calls it the boosters of your rocket.

If you think about how can you utilize the most fuel in your rocket,

Then you say,

All right,

So the anxious,

Anger,

Resentment,

All those are taking away from actually you having the full usage of the fuel in your booster.

So if you look at it from that point of view,

That's still very useful.

If you want to have the most utility of everything that you've got,

Your mind,

The body,

The heart,

And spirit,

What we're talking about here is a couple of things.

One is to have a clean,

Shall we say,

Container,

Right,

Of your emotionality,

Physicality,

Mentality and spirituality,

So you can have full usage of it.

And how can you be present in this moment so you can actually see the reality,

Subjective and objective reality,

So you can actually see all the chess pieces on the board.

And so you can be the most utilitarian based or whatever it is that you want.

Absolutely.

And just a real practical example of that,

Back in the day,

We worked with the NFL and the NFL Players Association,

Was working with this one professional football player who,

To look at these athletes,

These brilliant specimens of physicality and athletic performance,

You would just assume the invulnerability that they present on the field.

And I had the great honor to really get inside with these guys and to see how the oddest little thing would affect their physical performance.

For instance,

If a linebacker was concerned about pain in his knee and he indulged that concern even the tiniest bit,

Not ignore that it was there,

But rather tend to it like,

Okay,

Get checked out.

If the doctor says it's okay,

The X-rays,

All this,

Then we have to address the thing that has you anxious about that,

Because if you don't,

It will absolutely impact your performance on game day.

And so that's a sort of an obvious example.

Like,

Tend to the physical need,

Do some extra PT or make sure you do what you need to do to resolve that anxiety in your mind.

The other examples of what about if I get hurt and I want my family taken care of?

Totally different thing.

The doctor's not going to take care of that for you.

So it's sit down and make sure that those things got addressed.

Make sure the trust fund is set up and that money gets swept into that account on a regular basis so that when you step foot on the field,

You're not thinking about your family.

You're thinking about your purpose of being on that field.

And the difference between an athlete who you look at and say,

That guy could run right through that brick wall and leave a football player shape and a hole in the wall.

But if he's anxious about his family,

His performance is going to be diminished,

Even if it's a tiny bit.

And in a football game,

An inch could mean losing the game or winning the game.

And really tending to those things.

That's why I say this emotion is information.

And if we take that information and act on it,

Then we often take huge steps to reduce the impact of that emotion.

And so acting on it could look like getting checked out,

Acting on it could look like talking to your lawyer and putting things in motion.

Acting on it could be getting that project done.

For instance,

How many people do you know whose garage is a mess,

For instance,

And they can't park their car in a garage?

And in a way,

Every day they get in their car subconsciously,

They might be saying,

Boy,

I wish I could park my car in the garage.

And as long as that mess exists in the garage,

Their subconscious mind is using energy to address that somehow.

But if you clean out the garage,

It's gone.

Yeah,

Yeah,

Completely.

One of my favorite books is Marie Kondo's The Magic of Piding Up.

Yes.

And it's very deceptive in a way that it's talking about decluttering,

But really is teaching beautiful wisdom principles.

Yes.

On the substance part.

And I really love it because it actually gave me methodologies to,

I thought I was a minimalist until I read that book.

Oh,

Shoes are minimalist.

Wow.

I'm a moderate minimalist.

Yeah,

For sure.

So,

But the same,

But what you just described is actually perfect because we all have different clutters in the mind,

The body,

The heart,

And spirit.

And then if we can,

The more we can clear up the clutter,

The more space,

The more resource,

The more room we'll get to create in the mind,

Body,

And the heart and spirit.

Doesn't that explain the wild popularity of those shows that show us how.

.

.

Haters.

Yeah.

For one,

People do derive some sense of satisfaction to know that,

Well,

Their situation isn't as bad as it could be,

But there's also this compelling draw toward the hope of hope that we could change it.

Yeah.

So I'm curious,

As a facilitator,

How are you able to get the athletes to share with you their own internal garage?

Because they may share,

Hey,

My knee hurts,

But how did you get even deeper than that?

Are there other clutters around the pain in the knee so that you can really help them like,

Oh,

Okay,

Clean that up,

Address the will or the trust and these type of things normal people don't tell others about?

I love the question because what I love about the question is whether it's a football player or a hockey player or a rock musician or a C-level executive or a healer in transition from one business to another or whatever,

The issues are very similar.

And that is around vulnerability because once a person is shown,

And this is I've committed three decades of my life to really how it is to create a safe space for someone who is desiring change to actually submit,

If you will,

To the process of change.

And that first step is for them,

Anybody desiring change is to render themselves open to the process of changing.

And most people right off the street would be uncomfortable and not really feel safe to do that.

And so one of.

.

.

Even before that is first recognizing they have a problem.

Yeah,

Absolutely.

And so I'm assuming so great.

That's such a brilliant point.

The problem for the athlete,

For instance,

It's pretty clear.

The problem is evident by a diminishment in performance.

And if an athlete's revenue is incumbent upon maximum performance,

They're generally going to be pretty clear about,

I need to change this.

I need to change this because I'm afraid.

I need to change this because if I get hurt,

I'm toast.

I need to change this because I'm a starter and I want to stay a starter because it means the difference on a number of zeros on my paycheck.

And so I've assumed if they come into my field,

There's an opening to change.

Now that's partly me just being the stand I am in the world for people to be there full of selves.

And partly,

Hey,

If you're in my field,

Metaphysically or spiritually,

If you're in my field,

I know that somewhere inside you is a version of you committed to making these changes.

And so I'm going to presume that and work with you.

And especially if they come to an event or they've been referred as a client,

For instance,

Then I presume that.

But we'll flesh that out in an introductory conversation with a very direct question.

How committed are you to making these changes?

And if they are,

Then the key is help them recognize that I'm on their team.

I'm in their corner and there are different conversations we'll have to set that stage with Tracy and I call our container.

And we create a container of confidentiality,

For instance.

Nobody on the planet in the history of my life knows who my other clients are unless my clients have told them.

They'll never hear it from me unless I have explicit permission to say this person said that.

And that comes from my experience 20 years as a corporate lawyer,

I keep secrets for a living.

I do that pretty well.

So that right there is a big step toward creating that safety.

Like I know just a doctor or a therapist or making a confession to a priest or something where you do that because you trust it will stay there.

And so once a person wants to change,

Trusts that their process is safe with me,

Meaning anything they reveal,

Anything they share won't be used to embarrass them or anything.

And that the more I know,

The more I actually can help them.

And that often we're usually able to establish that type of rapport and that level of rapport with someone very quickly.

Again,

Mostly because all of our clients have come to us from other clients or from interviews like this where they get a sense,

Hey,

I'm here.

I actually care.

I do this because it's my purpose.

And so they come with a degree of openness and a willingness to see,

Hey,

Once they're open to the idea that I could help them or that we could help them,

Then it's a question of is the chemistry right?

Is this the right thing?

Is our rapport the right fit for the kind of change they want to make?

Yeah,

I like that.

Thank you for that.

Yeah,

No,

It's really beautiful.

So I was Googling around as a way to do research for our conversation.

And within just a few minutes,

Just watching any of your content,

I felt right away that you care for whoever that's standing in front of you,

That you're here to inject a love,

That compassion,

That empathy as a way to support them,

Anyone to fulfill their goals.

So was that always there or is that cultivated over time?

Were you like this way when you were a lawyer?

Let me put it that way.

That's a great question.

That's a good question.

I would like to say that I was that way as a lawyer.

I know that,

For instance,

When I was a young right out of law school and started off in a boutique corporate firm doing big bank,

Like one bank would buy another bank and I was part of the team of lawyers that would facilitate that transaction,

Which in and of itself is pretty cut and dry,

Pretty straightforward.

But I would like to believe that from day one,

I always brought heart to a transaction.

I remember as a young lawyer,

I would do a real estate closing after real estate closing representing lenders.

And in those experiences,

A new home buyer,

For instance,

Might be looking at a stack of papers that thick written by the bank and the bank's lawyers,

Me and my team of guys,

A team of lawyers,

Men and women whose only purpose is to protect the bank.

So these documents are definitely in the bank's favor.

Right.

And I would be with these young new homeowners who would be terrified of the process.

So I like to think that I developed a rapport with them to help them understand that they have a lawyer there,

Their interests are covered and to facilitate your transaction and brought that to everything I did.

I like to think I did anyway.

And I had a pretty successful practice.

So I was being facetious when I asked that.

No,

The question is,

Is this compassion cultivated over time?

Yeah,

No,

I appreciate the question.

I would say that,

Yes,

For sure.

And I so as a child,

For instance,

I remember being very sensitive to the feelings of other people.

I remember being,

Of course,

Learn come to learn that people describe that as empathy.

And I always just,

I always experienced that a little bit more than empathy.

If a friend of mine was sad,

I remember feeling their sadness often before they felt the sadness.

And I remember being really concerned about that.

My close friends and the people I cared about,

And I've come to learn,

I don't know if you're familiar with the human design at all.

It's a fascinating way of assessing or understanding the way you tick.

And as a human design,

I'm a reflector,

Which means that I'm basically means that I am sensitive to what other people,

The other energies people are susceptible to often before they are.

And it's not a,

I don't call it psychic ability or anything like that.

It's just a really profound sensitivity.

And I've learned that working with people in leadership positions who might not be readily open to that vulnerability,

I've learned to feel to recognize that what I feel is often what they may be feeling,

But not have words for it.

Not that they are hesitant to share it.

They just might not be aware that's what they're experiencing.

And so what I'll say is I'm feeling sadness in the space.

Does that feel true for you?

And they'll drop in and be like,

Yeah,

I guess I wasn't really aware of that,

But that's what I'm feeling.

And say,

As a kid,

I was super,

I probably would have,

Would be called hypersensitive or super sensitive,

But I've really come to appreciate that that was my superpower.

And because I could get people,

Like when I was a kid,

Teachers loved me and I would get away with shit that I would get away with stuff that none of the other kids could get away with because the teachers loved me to pieces.

It wasn't manipulation.

It wasn't trying to get away with stuff.

It was just,

I related to them and they related to me and other students,

Other kids would always come to me and they would trust me.

And so I've learned pretty quickly that sensitivity,

Although I did feel judged and get made fun of a little bit along the way,

I learned pretty quickly to appreciate that about myself and,

Which is a real,

Was a real gift.

And so yes,

In many ways,

I would say it's not so much the empathy that has developed over time,

But understanding it and not judging it has developed over time,

Like really celebrating it as a superpower rather than a weakness that has developed over time.

Does that make sense?

Yeah,

For sure.

Thank you for sharing that.

So one of the things that we say on the podcast a lot is our biggest superpowers usually comes from our biggest wounds.

And say that your ability to sense both yourself and others as one of your superpowers.

Yes,

I absolutely would.

And I love even acknowledging as that it's easy to perceive it as a weakness because especially in our social construct where we tend to value that confident leadership that is so certain and driven.

And yet at the same time,

We suffer from the consequences of that confidence when it's a false confidence,

Right?

We see examples on every newsfeed of the results of somebody following that.

I'm certain of this.

And then not being willing to see the 10,

000 other perspectives that might've adjusted that leadership just a little bit.

And it can be a weakness if I allow it to overtake me,

For instance,

Sometimes I'll feel somebody's sadness and it will just overwhelm me.

And then my wife will just nudge me and say,

That might not be yours.

She's like in my corner,

That might not be your sadness.

And then I'll check in.

Oh,

Yeah.

Yeah.

I love that.

Was there a turning point for you to recognize,

Hey,

This is not a weakness.

This is actually an asset for you to recognize that.

So I will say,

I love that question.

I will say that it may not be a moment,

But it's a period of my life where my spiritual exploration took on an entirely new level.

For instance,

I've always been aware of my spiritual journey since I was about 10 years old,

But the real juice kicked in maybe 15 years ago when I really started exploring,

Not just comparative theology and stuff like that.

Cause I started that path in college,

But when I really started exploring,

Like going deep with shaman and plant medicine exploration and things like that,

Where,

Where real,

Really critical look and deep exploration of consciousness.

When I saw,

Oh,

You know what?

This thing,

The sensitivity that I've kept in its place for building relationship or developing trust or whatever is actually a huge part of who I'm here to be.

And which can only come from that sort of higher perspective that spiritual exploration and can give you.

And so I would say,

Yeah,

That sort of that moment,

If I,

If you will,

That I decided to step in to the spiritual exploration and say,

You know what?

I'm not going to turn away a single voice.

I'm going to explore every piece of wisdom I can.

I'm going to work with every shaman who will sit down with me.

I'll climb to every mountain top that I can have time and availability for to find out and to explore more about that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm actually very curious about the different encounters that you have,

But I'll pause for a moment.

So don't let me forget to ask you about those encounters,

But I'll echo what you just said earlier about,

It's not a singular moment per se.

I've always been curious,

But when I was younger,

My curiosity will be shunned by others because it was too intense for most of them.

And also it comes,

It tests their ego quite a lot because they'll be asking teachers questions after questions and they don't have answers for obvious have reached the extent of their knowledge and they're too prideful to tell me like,

Hey,

I don't know.

So they would just say,

Shut up,

Shut it down.

Same thing with other parental figures in my life.

And it wasn't until I started to explore my own spiritual journey.

As you said,

My definition of spirituality is my relationship to the greater whole,

Not necessarily certain curiosity per se,

But my place in the world.

So I agree with that a hundred percent.

Where do I stand?

And then from that place,

And also look at the different constructs that I have in my mind,

And then start to examine one by one,

Oh,

Did I believe this because I believe it,

Or is it inherited?

Is it,

I got it somewhere from the society or from the Chinese culture or for some books or some way or every single one of them.

And to come to trust more and more my subjective reality of this feels right for me,

Right?

This is my truth versus I'm trying out something,

Some ideas,

Some beliefs,

Some constructs,

And I'm going to believe it because I had believed it for the last three decades,

Or I'm going to believe it because it's part of my culture per se.

So thank you for sharing that.

Now it's really beautiful.

Thank you.

I love the way you described that very eloquently as well.

That this idea of it's my truth as I've come to understand it,

As I've asked into it.

And there's always going to be a certain degree of stuff we take on faith until we do our own exploration,

Especially as young children and young adults,

We take on what our parents teach us and what our teachers teach us,

Et cetera.

And I think at some point,

The really fortunate among us have the space to ask our own questions.

You know?

Yes,

For sure.

We don't have to worry about food,

Shelter,

Social connection,

Or self-action.

We can ask more of these types of questions I'll place in the universe,

Self-transcendence of actualization.

Yeah.

The upper levels of Maslow's pyramid are definitely luxurious.

Yes.

So you've explored this for 15 years.

You've talked to different traumas and tell us maybe one or two or three of your encounters that really have you reevaluate your own value system internally.

If you want to go there.

Yeah.

That's such a big,

Giant question,

A beautiful question.

And what's funny is,

So there's this part of me is like,

Oh my God,

I want to tell you about everything.

And some of which aren't legal and some of which are very controversial,

Et cetera.

But I will say that maybe I'm perfectly happy.

I just not going to give you names and dates and locations.

No,

No,

No names,

No locations.

Share with us your experience and the lesson you took from it.

Yeah.

So one of the,

There's so many to pick from it.

There are two in particular that I'd love to share.

One of which really relates to even the name of your podcast,

Noble Warrior,

That I'd love to address.

The first one is a moment that I had during with a shaman who I'd grown to trust.

It had many deep experiences with using psilocybin mushrooms among many other things,

But including ayahuasca,

Which if you're not familiar is a tea made,

I'm sure you are,

But others may not be that it was a tea made from the vine of two vines that grow perdiciously,

Prodigiously in the rainforest.

And that over time,

The brewing of these two vines emit a substance that DMT and other things that have psychoactive effects.

And during one of these experiences,

I remember having,

Being aware of my attachment to my life,

My ego,

My consciousness,

And my fear of letting go of that.

And the shaman was encouraging me to let go.

And I was quite afraid to let go.

And why are you afraid?

And I remember saying,

Because I'm afraid I'll disappear.

Literally my ego was holding on against the risk of obliteration,

Which in many ways on the spiritual path is yes,

Obliterate the ego and let that happen.

But in the moment I was terrified because literally in my altered state,

I also,

I actually thought that I might disappear,

Like literally disappear.

And there was nothing the shaman could do other than hold me and encourage me.

And I remember having this moment where I was deep in this space and conscious of my body curled up in a ball and having a dialogue with creation itself,

Saying,

If I let go,

I might,

My body might soil itself.

I might throw up.

I might poop myself and blah,

But on a higher level,

If I let go,

I might disappear.

And I just was rocking back and forth and rocking back and forth.

And I'm having this dialogue and I'm sweating and I'm shivering and I want to,

I have to evacuate my bowels at the same time.

I have to purge my gut.

And I was just rocking back and forth.

I'm rocking back and forth.

And I heard,

I hear this,

The sweetest voice I can't even,

I can't even approximate it.

It was so sweet and heavenly and sublime.

I heard the words,

Trust mother.

And then my whole body relaxed.

I heard this voice and it was medicine to me that can't even,

It was otherworldly.

And that moment was not just trust mother in this moment.

It was not just released to to whatever your body might do.

It was such a overarching admonishment to trust mother.

Now,

What I interpreted that instantaneously as a knowing in my body was to trust creation,

Trust the universe,

Trust mother nature,

Trust mother.

The energy that holds me to deliver me to my highest expression,

Not try so hard,

Not try to force things,

Which is often the masculine.

I'm clear on my objective.

I'm going to make this happen.

Strong will,

Strong will.

Strong will,

Which is beautiful.

And is it serving us right?

So that for me,

I don't know if I've conveyed the profound nature of that experience,

But really those words come back to me often when I'm,

When I become aware that I'm trying to push something.

When I'm forcing an agenda or trying to make something happen.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

These types of spiritual awakening moments is the Alpha and the Omega in that moment.

So we're going to describe it words,

Those do not do it justice and the profound nature of this particular message.

But I hope the viewers get an idea of what it could be,

What it did for George.

And it continued to be an anchor,

A mantra for you to navigate your internal states as you're facing new challenges in life.

Yes.

Oh my gosh.

Always.

Absolutely.

And because again,

When I'm trying to force something,

When some things there's definitely hard work involved in success.

There's definitely times when things are going to be hard.

And at the same time,

There are occasions when it just doesn't always need to be that hard and distinguishing between the two is important is a skill,

Is a life skill at the same time,

Surrendering to it.

When it,

When you notice that it doesn't have to be that hard is important.

And that those words,

Trust mother for me,

Remind me to do that.

And what I've found is if I default to trusting mother and surrendering to it,

If it's a moment where I'm supposed to be working a little harder,

That will always present itself.

So the default of trusting and surrendering actually is almost always the best way to go.

Because if it turns out not to be,

There's almost always time to recover.

Does that make sense?

Yeah,

It does.

How do you feel about that?

Yeah,

Yeah,

No,

I'm trying to see what there's a lot of places we can go,

But I'm curious to know about this whole journey of surrendering and I'll share my own experience.

Yeah,

Please.

And to the people who are watching this,

My name literally means strong will.

So meaning masculine,

Carving out,

No,

Just go over it,

Go through it,

Go under it,

Go around it.

It doesn't matter.

Just go through it.

Go under it,

Go around it,

Doesn't matter,

Just fulfill my words.

It has always been my strong suit.

It's in my name.

And as George has beautifully translated,

It's a sword that cuts both ways.

So I can use it to pulverize obstacles in front of me at the same time.

There's a cost of trying to just making things harder than you need to be.

Sometimes,

Like riding a wave,

I don't always have to ride every wave.

Sometimes I can actually just look at all the waves that's in front of me and say,

All right,

This wave is too hard.

It takes too much effort to pedal over there.

Let me ride this other wave and experience something even more magical and more surprising.

That's part of my lesson that I learned.

So I'm curious in the journey of learning the navigation of the different waves,

Right?

Sometimes you use your will to pedal harder.

Sometimes you surrender.

So can you share with us,

And this is a very philosophical question,

Perhaps.

How are you learning to surrender?

I don't know if that's clear enough of a question.

Should I contextualize more?

No,

It's great.

It's clear.

So I promise I will answer this question.

Can I?

Let me ask you a question first.

So we can do this a little bit.

The,

Is,

And I'll tell you why I'm asking the question because I've worked with many war veterans,

Active duty war veterans,

Both cancer survivors,

As well as in the leadership programs and just the word surrender to a combat veteran has a whole dictionary full of definition behind it.

And so I'm curious to you what surrender means for you in this context.

Yeah.

No one's ever asked me that question before.

What does surrender,

Surrender means for me giving up my sovereignty,

Giving up my agency to something,

Yeah,

To something else,

Not me.

So that's awesome.

Wow.

What I had a potent definition,

My,

Literally my,

The hair on my arms is standing up because that piece of surrender and giving up your sovereignty.

Now,

First of all,

As a human who recognizes your sovereignty and your agency in any moment might just be like the only thing you have,

Like the only thing that is certain,

If you will,

Like in a world where impermanence is a natural state,

The idea of surrendering or giving up your sovereignty could be so challenging to your sense of existence,

To your ego.

So my entire ego,

Egoic being,

Correct?

Yeah.

And because in a way sovereignty is part of what defines our ego,

Our sense of self.

And so what,

So I want to get back to the original question now,

The experience of surrender,

How I've embraced the experience of surrender is really related to that last piece of your definition to something else.

And that as a man,

As a leader,

As a teacher,

As a father,

As a partner,

As a friend,

I'm not willing to surrender consciously my agency to any other person.

Now I know,

I recognize that I do that unconsciously.

I do that unconsciously every time I respond to a notification on my phone.

Ah,

I just did it.

I just surrendered my agency now.

And,

But at the same time,

I've consciously taken steps.

Like I never have my notifications on my phone and not just the movie,

That movie,

The recent movie that come out that just,

The social dilemma.

But I had done that before.

Like I'm not willing to surrender my agency to every other person's impulse on Twitter,

For instance.

However,

I am willing in some certain circumstances and pretty much every circumstance to surrender my agency to what I've come to understand to be creation.

And you might,

People might call that God,

Depending on your vocabulary,

Right?

Christ consciousness,

Jesus,

Buddha,

Brahma,

Allah,

Whatever word we use,

Infinite spirit,

Infinite nature,

Creation,

Whatever,

However anyone would relate to that entity,

That field of energy,

That infinite field of possibility,

Whatever that is,

I surrender to that.

I submit to that because I truly believe that my most expressed life as a human being is my humanness,

Surrendering to my spiritual being expressing itself.

So in other words,

If I could let my consciousness and my ego,

This thing that I think defines me sometimes this George-ness,

If I surrender that to my spirit-ness,

That often results in a better outcome for me.

And it can be scary sometimes.

It was scary when I was rocking back and forth with that shaman to trust and to let go.

It's scary sometimes taking the stage in front of 1500 people or whatever.

And will I remember everything I want to teach them?

I remember everything I want to say.

It's scary saying to somebody,

My fee for working with me for the year is $100,

000 and that is payable in full.

And it's scary to look somebody in the eye and say that.

And yet surrendering and a surrender is also includes not attaching to the outcome,

Surrendering in the end of the day,

But surrendering in the end of the day,

Surrendering in the end of the day.