52:27

Saint Kabir Session 7 - Mat kar Maya Ko Ahankaar

by Ekta Bathija

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talks
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Meditation
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Listen to Ektaji talk about Saint Kabir's teachings on non-duality. These teachings are aimed at the experiential understanding of the true nature of the self and are focused on the idea of the oneness of everything.

Saint KabirMayaAhankaarNon DualitySelfOnenessEgoAttachmentImpermanenceConsciousnessSelf InquiryDetachmentBhaktiKarmaMindPeaceConditioningEgo DissolutionWitness ConsciousnessKarma PhalaMind TamingInner PeaceInner GuruBody AttachmentsGurusMaya Illusions

Transcript

Salaam.

Salaam.

Salaam.

Salaam.

So this song by Kabir is titled,

Matkar Mayako Ahukas.

Kaya ghar se kaachir ejse usiram uti chum ka pavane ka lagajay jap ka pavane ka lagajay kaya dhul hujaap se.

So here Kabir is singing for the people who are very Abhimanyi or who have a lot of ego,

A lot of ahaankar about this body.

We all are attached to the body.

So he is helping us recognise our own attachment to our body.

So it is Matkar Mayako Ahankar,

Matkar Kaya Ko Abhimanyi,

Kaya Ghar Se Kaachir.

Ghar Se Kaachir means it's even more fragile than a clay pot.

A pot of clay is so fragile we need to take care of that fragility and we are so careful when moving a pot from here to there.

So he is saying your body is more fragile than even a pot made of clay.

So he says Kaya Ghar Se Kaachir ejse usiram uti.

Us is a dew drop.

A dew drop sitting on a leaf is so fragile that one little wind,

A gust of wind can destroy this dew drop.

So Kabir is trying to bring this reality ahead.

He is trying to make us understand this truth that really our body,

Do we think that you know I live in this body,

I am so strong,

I can be with this body or I am something.

The big I has identified with body and that identification itself is false.

And when this body dies,

That identification of us shudders.

It's an actual truth that when you drop the body,

There is a fear that comes up,

An enormous kind of feeling,

An overwhelming feeling of oh I am not this body.

And I,

The big I that identifies with this physical body,

It suddenly finds itself separate.

So he says that you are going to be majorly shocked,

Astonished,

Surprised.

Instead of getting shocked later on,

Right now start recognising that I am not this fake I.

This fake I is nothing but the body,

The mind,

The intellect,

The memory and the ego.

I am different from it and that is that witness consciousness.

That witness is witnessing even right now.

That witness is observing that you are listening.

Your mind is probably repeating something,

It is agreeing with something or disagreeing.

The witness,

The background is right there.

It knows you.

So he is saying before the body kicks you out,

Before that day,

Right now you start recognising how fragile is this body.

And if this body is so fragile,

What am I so attached to?

What is it that I am so attached to?

So we look at that again.

Matakaramayaku akhara Matakaram kayaku abhivanaya gara se kachi kaya gara se kachi ujye se usramuti chhoka bhavane ka lakichai cha tukka bhavane ka lakichai kaya dhuliho cha se One gust of wind and this body will turn to dust.

It will die,

It will drop,

It will be the end of this body.

So Kabir is helping us recognise that it is impermanent.

To not be attached to it,

It is impermanent,

It is temporary.

But you are not temporary.

You are not impermanent.

You need to find out who you truly are.

You are not this body.

The second paragraph.

E sa satttha maha raja jin ke moolukumiraj jinigar joolita hathi There was such a stern king.

That king was popular in many many many many places,

In many kingdoms.

He ruled many kingdoms and he was so rich that he had an elephant dancing at his door.

You have to realise that this is the 15th century period in India.

India was very very affluent,

Very rich.

And the sign of affluence in 15th century India was owning elephants.

And they were pretty expensive.

It would be equivalent to today's Mercedes or Porsche.

Maybe more,

I don't know.

So that king had everything that he wanted.

He had so many riches is what is said in the second paragraph.

Jinigar joolita hathi rije seyo sera mohti Means,

Even all your riches,

All your money,

All your elephants or Porsches or Mercedes,

All of them are temporary,

Impermanent.

They will just get one gust of wind and they will turn to dust.

They will just fly away.

You will recognise the impermanence that day.

Again and again he is waking you up.

Don't wait for that day.

Now is the time.

Now when I am in this human body,

Now when I have this intelligence,

Now when I have recognised that people,

Situations,

Things,

Life,

Money,

Sex,

Children,

House,

Career,

Job,

All this is at the periphery.

There has to be something more to life.

When you start recognising that there has to be something more to life,

When you start recognising there has to be something more important in life,

Then only do you see that everything is impermanent.

And when everything is impermanent,

What does the sensible person do?

He recognises that I should not be attached to all this.

Kaya garu se kachi rije se usra muthi.

The third paragraph.

Briya sin darami teel jaanobh raju hai sadh keel jal rahi diya ki bhati.

Jal rahi diya ki bhati rije se usra muthi.

Joo ka klavanika lage jay,

Jap tuk ka klavanika lage jay,

Kaya tu lago jay se.

So,

Is he seeing?

There is a clay filled deer,

We call it in India,

A little lamp made of clay has oil in it.

In that,

A little flame is burning.

That flame is the eye inside.

What have I done?

I have forgotten myself.

I have forgotten that I am the flame and I have identified with this little clay body that I have.

I think I am this dia.

I think that I am going to live only as long as this little dia made of clay,

A little pot made of clay which has oil and has a wick which is on fire.

I feel that I am only going to live,

Only going to survive till the time this little clay pot is surviving.

This is a wrong understanding.

This is a very narrow understanding.

Kabir is saying,

Wake up,

Wake up,

Wake up.

The whole khel,

Khel means a play.

This play of everything is born out of I.

The real I forgot itself.

It forgot its reality.

The witness consciousness forgot that it is the witness and with its own veiling power of maya became the ego,

The mind,

The intellect,

The memory.

And this manufactured its own physical body and that unit of physical body and the mind manufactured its own samsara.

So Kabir is saying,

This is only a dream.

It is not real.

It is an apparent reality.

It is not true.

Advaita takes this one step forward and helps us realize that anything that I see,

Anything that I hear,

Anything that I touch,

Anything that I taste,

Anything that I smell,

All of these faculties that I have,

They are nothing but the mind.

Their experience is also nothing but the mind.

There is no experience of matter there.

The experience of matter is an assumption.

For example,

This is an iPad.

Okay?

I am touching this iPad.

Yes?

I feel that I am touching matter.

When I was a little baby in the cradle and if my mother,

She didn't have an iPad then,

But if she did and she showed it to me,

I would not understand anything.

I would not know what is matter.

If I would touch it,

I would still not understand this is matter.

I am a baby in the cradle.

Remember?

No conditioning,

No teaching,

Nothing has started.

I am a baby in the cradle.

So all I know is my sensation that I feel on this touch,

The little tingly feeling that comes in my body and creates a happy feeling in the mind which is called the emotion.

As a little baby,

I don't even have thoughts about it.

But if I have thoughts,

It makes me happy.

That's it.

All I know is my thoughts,

My emotions,

My perception of touch of the iPad and the sensation that it created in the body.

As a little baby,

I do not know beyond this.

As I grew up a little bit,

The conditioning of the world starts.

The world starts teaching me.

This is A for Apple.

This is B for Boy.

The world starts teaching me.

This is matter.

These are all borrowed jnana or borrowed knowledge.

It is not my own anubhav,

Not my own experience.

You see the difference where I am going with this?

Till today,

Whatever I have learnt is just my conditioning.

In my real experience,

Till today,

I have no proof that there is matter that exists out there.

That is just an assumption.

That is something that the others have taught me and somebody else has taught them and somebody else has taught them.

So it is just an assumption that has come down that this is matter.

In my pure experiencing,

There is nothing else other than my perception.

Perception is perception of sight or perception of touch here in the case of this iPad.

Perception of taste in the case of food.

Perception of sound in the case of hearing and if you're smelling something,

Perception of smell.

That is the meaning of perception.

Perception is a mind phenomenon.

It is happening in my mind.

Whatever I see,

Touch,

Taste,

Smell outside,

Advaita says it is a mind phenomenon.

Your experience of the world is also happening only because of your mind.

For example,

I leave this iPad in this room,

I walk out and I go to the other room.

The iPad is not anymore in the field of my perception.

Does this mean the iPad does not exist?

I don't know.

It's an assumption that I have that it does exist in the other room.

In reality,

I don't know.

Have you seen the difference between assumed reality and actual reality?

Yes.

Actual reality is purely what I can experience.

Assumed reality is that which comes from conditioning,

That which comes from being borrowed from others' knowledge outside.

This was said in the Advaita Vedantic texts.

Adi Shankaracharya has written this.

And this obviously is phenomenal today.

Even scientists are arguing amongst themselves whether matter exists or not.

Whether matter is really solid or is it just a wave?

Is it really a particle or is it just a vibration?

So it's amazing to see that all this already exists in our Vedantic texts.

Those who think that Kabir is only the path of pratik,

They are missing a little additional information.

The additional information is that Kabira's path was also a mixture of Vishishta Advaita Vedanta.

In Vishishta Advaita Vedanta,

Bhakti is taken as the fake I which is body,

Mind,

Intellect,

Ego and memory together are called the fake I.

F A K E.

Fake I.

The real I is the witness,

The one that is witnessing the mind,

The one that is witnessing the body.

That real I is always there.

That I is not manufactured.

It is really who I am.

And this fake I,

Bowing down to that real I,

Is basically you are withdrawing from the mind's likes and dislikes and anger and hatred and just relaxing in that real I,

The witnessing consciousness.

That is the Bhakti on the path of Vishishta Advaita Vedanta.

So Kabira's path is really the path of Vishishta Advaita Vedanta in which Bhakti is just one little path.

So here in this song,

He is reminding us again and again,

Come to that witness consciousness.

Stay there.

Be steady there because that is who you are.

If you don't learn this lesson now,

You're going to be in a major shock at death when you see your own dead body on the floor.

Kaya garuse kachirajase o seramuti.

This body is as fragile as clay and it will evaporate as quickly as a dew drop evaporates from the leaf.

The next paragraph is Kaya doo leho jah se.

So in this next paragraph he says,

At death what will happen?

This little clay pot which you think is I,

This body that I think I am,

Its oil will get exhausted and that flame will die out.

Just like a dew drop evaporates,

Your complete identity will evaporate from this planet.

Your name,

Your fame,

Your relationships,

The money you made.

Whatever you think is I,

Mine,

All this mineness will drop,

This I,

I,

I,

The holding onto I,

All this will drop,

All this will end.

Recognise this truth.

Kabir is working to just help us wake up,

Wake up he says.

Recognise that I am the witness.

Right now you are watching Ekta on your computer screen or on your phone.

Your eyes are looking at Ekta.

There are thoughts going on in your mind.

Behind that there is a witness.

Do you recognise that witness?

That witness is the one who is seeing the mind's thoughts.

It is behind the mind.

He says,

That is who you are.

You are that,

That witness.

Now just be there,

Be there,

Be there.

Laal mikaa laal teera kaun kea haa baal jine kujaa malaijaan sein jine kujaa malaijaa seerai jese ho se rahamoti He says,

What will you do when death takes you away and takes your so called attachment,

This body is something I am very attached to.

It takes it away.

When you really meet Mr.

Death,

At that point it is literally like seeing your body on the floor and you are right there.

So that you are not shocked Kabira says,

Now is the time.

Recognise I am that witness.

Again and again be there.

Because of Maya,

Because of your previous patterns you will get pulled into the mind.

The mind will take you into its likes and dislikes.

The mind will not care about the witness.

It doesn't like it there because that's where the mind becomes no mind in the witness.

The witness is blank.

It is like emptiness.

The mind does not like being empty.

It says,

Okay come on,

Come on,

Next,

Let's do something.

Again and again in this song Kabira is reminding us,

Wake up,

Wake up,

You are not the body,

You are not the mind,

You are not the intellect,

You are not the memory,

You are not the ego.

You are that witness,

That witnessing consciousness,

That emptiness behind.

Right now if you can be there again and again and again and again.

Then you have reached home.

There is nowhere to go.

There is nothing else to do.

Kabira says,

You are home then.

Then the journey within that emptiness begins.

And that is the little bit of tougher part for you because the mind is so used to noise.

It doesn't like emptiness.

It doesn't like quietness.

It says,

Okay,

This is very weird.

Slowly you tame the mind.

Like you tame a wild horse,

Like you tame a new pet that you bring into the house.

You even have to tame some wild children,

Some wild kids when they are growing up.

Just like that,

Very kindly,

Lovingly,

Like a worm,

You tame your mind and create the distance between the real I and the fake I.

The greater this distance,

The easier it will become for you to go through whatever turbulences that life has to bring our way.

People have this wrong understanding that once you get enlightened,

There will be no turbulences in life,

No bad things will happen.

But this is just a mythical,

Magical story told to kids and I think we all need to grow up and see the truth that turbulences are not going away anywhere.

The karma that I created in the past was like seeds that I had thrown in the past.

One day that seed is going to sprout.

Now it is not in my hands what to do about this sprouting seed.

The seed will sprout.

The only thing that I can do is not to add water or manure to the seeds.

That will help end this karma,

Demolish this karma.

And only you can do that for yourself.

Nobody else can help you there.

Not your guru,

Not your teacher,

Not an astrologer,

Not a pandit,

No poojas can take away your sprouting of that future karma.

It is going to come.

Do what you may.

The only thing that can save you is you reacting.

When I react,

What am I doing?

I am creating more suffering inside me.

I will give you an example.

You get angry with somebody at home.

When you are angry with that person,

Before you utter certain words,

Inside your own mind you boil,

You churn in that anger,

You repeat that story to yourself again and again and again and again.

And you generate hatred and anger inside.

That hatred and anger inside is burning me first before I open my mouth and say something to somebody else.

Do you see what I am saying?

Yeah?

So reacting to a sprout that has happened of karma phalam right now is first burning me.

I am creating the suffering.

In the end I will just say one word to the other person.

One sentence to the other person.

But to say that sentence I churn in my own hatred,

In my own anger for one hour,

Two hours,

Sometimes for a day,

Two days.

Right?

So we have to become very clear what is really suffering.

Suffering is not these turbulences coming in my life,

People,

Situations and things that I don't like.

No,

No.

Suffering is the way I react to it and I boil in my head for days on and on.

Do you see that?

At enlightenment this reaction drops.

People will still be there.

Situations will still be there.

Coronavirus has come in your life equally as much as it has come in an enlightened person's life.

He is also affected,

You are also affected.

The situation does not change outside.

The way I react to that situation that is what determines how much I suffer inside or how much I am at peace inside.

So the real meaning of happiness or peace is the peace that I generate here,

Not here.

Get it?

You could be living in hell but you could be happy like a baby.

Or you could be living in heaven.

Everything is wonderful outside but because of your own mind that cribs,

Cribs,

Cribs,

You will find faults in heaven also.

You will suffer in heaven also.

So it's got nothing to do with your external environment.

What does it have something to do with?

Here,

With this place.

This place is very important.

So Kabir is very very clear.

Before death shocks you,

You wake up.

Wake up now.

Now he is going to speak in his revolutionary language.

Jhuti mai taro bhap jhuto sakal parivar Jhuta kutta chhati Jhuta kutta chhati rije se usaramuti He is saying your mother is an illusion.

Your father is an illusion.

Your whole family is an illusion.

And when somebody dies or when you die and the person,

Your loved one is mourning,

That mourning is also an illusion.

Jhuta kutta chhati is a very Hindi kind of phrase in which you know when somebody dies they used to cry loudly beating the chest and wailing away.

So he is bringing the truth in front of you.

And you know one part of you,

Inside you,

Knows this is the truth.

You can see this as the truth.

Very well.

Everything is a lie.

Everything is a lie how?

Because it is a dream.

It is just a dream.

It is manufactured because of the power of Maya and manufactured an apparent reality.

And really I get exactly what I want in this reality.

I get exactly what I want.

Not an ounce more,

Not an ounce less.

You will say no no I did not ask for this disease that I have in my body.

You don't know that.

You don't know that.

You don't know what you asked for when you are cribbing and angry.

You say words through your mouth which you don't mean and then you say later,

Oh I should have not spoken like that.

Don't you do it?

You don't know what kind of words you utter in your previous lives.

Now forget words.

Words happen later before that is thought.

You've had so many times thought,

Oh I don't want to take this exam.

Take your school days.

I don't want to take this exam.

May that fan fall on my teacher's head.

How many of you had such evil thoughts?

I saw this in an ad.

So,

Recognise that there is this negative side of the mind that keeps throwing out messages to the universe.

The universe does not understand your English or Hindi or Marathi or Kabir s Abdi.

The universe understands my energy of attraction or repulsion.

Yes,

Just like a magnet only understands the force that the ion carries.

There is either an attraction if it's the correct pole or there is a repulsion if there is a negative pole.

It only understands attraction and repulsion.

The universe understands only that language.

And that language you speak through your ragas and dveshas either through speech or through thought.

And those who can see it have done certain Buddha meditations and have started observing sensations and recognise subtle sensations.

Even to sensations you say,

I like this and I hate this.

It's not in words.

It's a sensation of like to another sensation,

Pleasant sensation or there's a sensation of dislike to another unpleasant sensation.

We speak through sensations,

We speak through emotions,

We speak through thoughts and the universe hears that language.

That's how you create your karma.

And when you create karma that way,

You may say that,

Oh,

I don't invite negativity into my life.

But you do not understand that by certain actions or certain ways that you behave with people in life are not the only deterministic factor.

There is a hidden determination happening and that is happening at your subconscious and unconscious level of the mind.

That counts higher and that brings disease,

That brings turbulences in life,

That brings shocks in life,

Surprises in life.

That brings all kinds of situations that you had no idea about.

Most of our diseases are nothing but karma phalaam,

Our own karma phalaam.

So if right now you are suffering from something,

Be kind to yourself,

Be compassionate,

Be loving.

How?

I should not start boiling inside in the hatred of this disease,

In the hatred of this situation because what am I doing?

I am lighting my own inner environment on fire by doing so.

Be kind to yourself and go through whatever has come in life.

Recognise this body is temporary.

It is impermanent.

One day,

And the day might not be too far away,

One day it will evaporate like the dew drop.

One little gust of wind and this body can become dust.

Kabir reminds us to be aware of this trip all the time,

Again and again and again.

Now why did he say my mother is a lie,

My father is a lie,

My family members are a lie?

For the same reason he is saying why is it a lie or an illusion?

He is not saying that they do not exist.

Of course they are there and they are your parents.

The way I see them,

There is a part of me that wants to believe this is permanent.

My relationship with my mother is going to always be like this.

My relationship with my father is always going to be like this.

Whether it is good or bad,

It doesn't matter.

Your mind has a way of making it an eternal state.

It is an illusion.

He says it is constantly changing and that which is constantly changing,

How can that be real?

That which is un-active cannot be sub-active.

That which is constantly changing cannot be the truth.

That which is nitya,

That is satya.

That which is unchanging,

That is the truth.

So now how do I find the unchanging?

By again and again coming to that witness consciousness.

Again and again recognise the one listening to Ekta right now,

There is a mind behind that which is talking or saying no I am not having thoughts.

But who knows that the mind is talking or not talking.

That is the witness consciousness.

Stay there.

I am that.

I am that.

This body is changing.

The mind is changing.

That which changes cannot be real,

Cannot be the truth.

That is all your leader is saying.

He is not saying that your mother and father don't recognise that.

So we sing that the guru,

Now recognise in Kabir's tradition he never was a proponent of having too many external gurus going to temples,

Going to masjid,

Going to churches,

Bowing down outside.

No he said that is good to begin with at least from an ignorant state you came to a state where you want to find some meaning in life,

Something more.

But don't stop there.

Go beyond.

The external guru is just a GPS and his job is to show you the guru inside.

And who is the guru inside?

The witness consciousness.

That witness inside is the guru.

The moment you recognise that witness,

Job is done.

You have completed the first part of the journey towards yourself.

Now the journey within yourself begins.

Don't think you are enlightened yet.

But you are not far away.

In fact Advaita says you are already that.

You have just forgotten and you are going to remember.

Like somebody who has got amnesia but now starts remembering everything.

That is all that has happened to you.

You are that already.

So you start recognising oh I am the witness,

I am the witness,

I am the witness consciousness.

That witness consciousness itself is the guru.

That witness consciousness itself is blessing the fake I.

And what is the fake I?

Body,

Mind,

Intellect,

Memory and the ego.

These five together form the fake I.

F A K E.

Fake I.

Jhuta Me.

The real I is the witness.

The witness consciousness in me that does not speak,

That does not see anything.

That is just there.

Just there.

That is the guru.

That is the real guru.

That is what is the meaning of guru-tattva in the Upanishads.

The Upanishads are very clear that the external guru is meant to just be a symbol.

The one who points to the moon and you are supposed to then move on towards the moon and enjoy its beauty.

Rest in that beauty.

You can't hold on to the finger of the guru and say oh my guru,

My guru,

My guru.

That is not guruji's blessing,

Not at all.

No,

Then you are stuck.

Then you are stuck on the path.

Going to that witness consciousness and resting there is being in the guru-tattva.

When you rest there,

You will also have to give up the external guru because you are giving up the mind,

The intellect,

The ego,

The memory.

All these are holding on to the external guru.

When you have to give up these,

You have to give up the external guru and rest in the internal guru-tattva.

Rest there.

That is who you are.

You already are that.

Madhkar maya ko aha kar.

Madhkar kaya ko abhiman kaya kar se kar chi.

Your body-mind complex is as brittle,

As fragile as a clay pot.

Recognise this truth.

Wake up to this truth.

The day you wake up,

You are enlightened.

Enlightenment is not something out there,

Very difficult to attain,

Reserved only for the Brahmin caste.

In Kabir's time,

There was a lot of caste,

Casteism and he was obviously born and brought up in a Muslim household.

So the Brahmins told him that,

Oh you are not allowed to enter the ashram of the guru,

Oh you are not allowed to get initiated in all this knowledge.

Kabir worked on himself and reached there on his own and he just went and met Ramanand when Ramanand was not even ready to talk to Kabir because he was of a different religion.

And only Brahmins were the ones who could hold on to the scriptures,

Who could talk about God,

Who could preach about God,

Who could learn about God.

And Kabir said why?

That God does not distinguish,

That God has made this Ghat and that Ghat equally.

Ghat is a pot.

Because see Kabir is a very poor,

Uneducated,

Very simple person.

A daily wage earner.

If today he managed to weave a piece of cloth,

He could go to the market,

Sell it and get food for the day.

That poor,

Simple person.

How does such a simple person come to the highest truth?

No books,

No scriptures,

No guru,

No teacher,

Nothing.

Nobody was giving him that knowledge.

He came there just by his true or his thirst to know who am I.

Who am I?

Who am I really?

Am I really this body?

Am I this mind?

Am I this intellect that goes on?

Am I this ego that says I am somebody?

He did his own internal research.

Kabir got there through his own thirst.

And then the most wonderful thing that when he went to Guru Ramananda and he started talking with Guru Ramananda at that level.

In fact Guru Ramananda was worshipping idols and Kabir said,

What is the point of worshipping the idols?

We have found the love within,

We have found God within,

We have found the highest truth within.

And Ramananda,

It's amazing how he dropped idol worship and in his ashram everybody was educated on dropping idol worship and in fact finding the witness consciousness,

The awareness within.

Kabir challenged that how will you reach this witness consciousness through the conditioning that you have coloured yourself with.

What is conditioning?

Conditioning is anything that is not my experience and that which is not my experience,

How can it lead me to enlightenment?

So,

Who hope for you for this week?

What is conditioning?

What what have you taken on from this world,

From people,

From situations,

From things that is moving,

From things that are not moving?

So,

Who hope for you for this week?

What is conditioning?

What what have you taken on from this world,

From people,

From situations,

From things that is not your real experience but is just a belief or it is just borrowed knowledge,

It is just some concept,

Some idea.

That is because a billion people say so,

So I believe it.

Experience means I really know it.

Kabir draws a very strong border,

A very strong boundary between anubhav,

That which I really experience and that which is belief,

That which is not my experience.

Conditioning.

So,

Take this homework down for this week.

Write down all the things that you believe,

That you see around you,

That you think,

All your concepts and ideas that you feel are not really my experience but are just my conditioning.

So,

That is the homework for this week and I will see you again next week.

Thank you.

Meet your Teacher

Ekta BathijaSt. George, USA

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© 2026 Ekta Bathija. All rights reserved. All copyright in this work remains with the original creator. No part of this material may be reproduced, distributed, or transmitted in any form or by any means, without the prior written permission of the copyright owner.

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