An Interview With Ian Tucker: His Journey With InsightTimer

I've got Ian Tucker from Insight Timer.

How are you,

Ian?

Good morning,

Steve,

Doing well?

Or good afternoon,

Good evening,

Whatever you are.

Evening in Australia,

Morning for where you are.

It is.

It's 10 o'clock,

Yeah.

I've noticed you're live streaming frequently on Insight Timer as well,

Which is pretty good.

How did you come across Insight Timer?

What's been your story?

Well,

Two or three years ago,

So really just before the world changed with this COVID thing,

I was doing a lot of talks,

Workshops around the UK and sometimes across Europe.

And we all had to have a bit of a rethink and a plan B.

So I'd still got the message.

I'd still got the content.

And I just happened to read in an article about this upcoming app called Insight Timer.

I've got some recorded material.

Put it on there and was just really pleasantly amazed at the take up of it,

Really.

I'm in this global audience overnight and suddenly your material that you're used to delivering in a room with so many people can be anywhere in the world at any time.

So it's a great platform.

So I remember Insight Timer back in 2018.

It was about $5 a month.

And there was a few teachers.

So I came across it very early.

And I kind of knew they had a good thing going towards it.

And look how far it's come.

Live streaming now.

Got courses.

I pay a yearly subscription,

Which is nice as well.

Yeah,

Good plan.

Yeah.

I think it's a really interesting bolt on the live that you talk about because it's growing.

I mean,

I think they're up to something like 10,

500 teachers now and 15 million users.

I mean,

The mind boggles really with those sort of numbers.

And the live aspect just brings a little bit of personal interaction back to it,

In my view.

Although I'm only looking at an iPhone,

Everybody else is behind it.

It just brings that connection back rather than it become this big sort of churning out machine of material.

So I've really taken it.

Is that where you and I first passed crossed on a live session?

Is that how you call it?

Yeah,

One of the lives.

Usually,

Which is good,

It's 5 PM Sydney time.

So I came across it.

And I think you were teaching a basic,

Was it a basic Buddhist meditation by the sounds of it?

Yeah,

So my,

No hard sell here,

Brahman author,

My book,

Your Simple Path is based around simplicity,

Around no real sort of new ideas here,

Thousands of years old,

Just you and I in this moment now is all that exists.

And if that's your start for 10 in life,

That the more I can just be with you on this call now,

That the more my life will flow,

Then that's really what I teach.

It all defaults back to what about just having a go at this moment?

We've all got stuff.

We've all got a story before this moment.

We've all got uncertainty after this moment.

But why wouldn't we just give ourselves this moment,

Just a few minutes.

And I'd started a small live stream called Find Calm in a Crazy World.

15 minutes every morning.

And it's just taken off.

It just seems to have found an audience and receiving some lovely personal messages and emails via the website.

So yeah,

It's all good.

But yeah,

About this moment would be the summary.

Have you been a meditation teacher,

Full-time meditation teacher your whole life,

Ian?

Or have you had different careers?

No,

So for 25 years,

I was in lighting,

Lighting design.

I was sales and marketing director of the UK's largest lighting company and had a bit of an epiphany.

We just closed down our,

About 10 years ago,

We just closed down the financial year.

It was Christmas Eve,

Had a great result.

European president called to say,

Well done,

I'm delivering that.

And within an hour,

I knew I was gonna walk away from it.

It came in a flash.

It just,

It went from being quite terrifying to quite exciting and just a knowing that it was all gonna be okay.

I was on a six month contract.

So I literally gave them my notice in the January and then worked the six months and then looked at what life was about really,

Stephen.

You know,

If it wasn't about the career and it wasn't about that journey towards all of that,

It leaves a bit of a void.

And what did I fill that with?

And that's where the book came from.

I started to look at Buddhist principles.

I started to look at meditation.

I had a look at religion.

I had a look at philosophy and all of it really started to bubble to the surface in the book and subsequent teachings.

I'd always taught,

I'd lectured in lighting and in the corporate world.

So teaching was quite natural to me.

And I think if I've got one string to my bow,

It's been able to take quite a complex sort of thing and simplify it for a larger audience who might only want to dip in for an hour or a week or a month of their life.

And that's really where the meditation come from.

So I looked at meditation and there was just something there.

It creeps up on you,

This meditation stuff.

You sit and it's difficult at first.

Let's not try and cut it any other way.

Your mind says,

We don't want this.

I'll take it from here.

Don't,

You know,

No more silence.

But then after a few weeks,

I realized actually I'd started to round the edges of things that bothered me.

Things seemed to pass me by a little bit more and didn't stick.

And that was where it all started really.

So I've looked at meditation,

Wellbeing.

I've taught a holistic therapy called Reiki.

I'm a teacher with the UK Reiki Federation for 10 years,

Over 10 years.

So yeah,

It's all in one really.

Yeah,

Look,

What an amazing way to earn a living being a meditation teacher and teaching meditation.

Probably one of the best ways,

Best job you could ever have,

You know.

Always think of a life of a Buddhist in a temple Ian is well,

They got nothing to lose.

No stress in life.

I saw there was a Buddhist on YouTube was a real estate in Los Angeles earning huge amount of money,

But never enjoyed it.

Something just didn't feel right and just left it.

Became a Buddhist full time.

Yeah,

Yeah.

I think what you've got,

The key,

Certainly in the Western world,

And I think this is probably a global message is we've still got a life to live.

And there seems to be this connotation about meditation that you need to be on top of a mountain or you need to be in a temple or in the middle of a forest and you can't,

But it's taking the essence of what that gives you and then using it in everyday life.

I think that's the balance we have to find now in the modern world.

So taking these age old sort of teachings and just building them into our everyday lives.

And that's a lot of what my teaching is really.

I've looked at some of Dr.

Joe Dispenza's stuff too as well.

And that's helped a lot.

Yeah.

That's really interesting about,

I mean,

Joe's work is a lot of it now is about the scientific aspect of manifesting and creating things in your life rather than leaving it to chance or the universe.

There's some really interesting work going on there,

Isn't there?

Yeah.

I wonder where we'll be in 10 years time with all of this stuff unfolding about,

You know,

It's gone from can we manifest to we can and the story of the secret was about,

If you see you can have it.

And Joe's now sort of bolting on the scientific proof that actually there's parts of the brain that really do light up when you connect with something that you haven't got and bring it towards you.

And so that's really interesting work.

Have you practiced the law of attraction meditation in your journey?

Yeah.

No,

I have.

I mean,

Like a lot of people,

It sort of exploded onto the scene and I thought,

Right,

I'll live my life by it and I'll just sit and wait.

And I think any time I look at anything in life,

Stephen,

Balance seems to be the answer.

So I think even with the law of attraction,

There was an emphasis in the early days of that principle about think it,

Feel it,

And then just wait.

And of course,

If it didn't appear on the timeline that you wanted,

You got frustrated,

You got,

You know,

So,

And then the very principle of it,

It moves away from you if you become frustrated and disconnect with the emotional aspect.

So what I found there,

A good mix really is,

I set an intent on something,

An absolute intent.

I develop a belief I can have it,

But then I move towards it.

And that's,

I think that's the final third step of three.

You must build something into your life that moves you towards what it is you want to bring into your life.

And I think quite a bit of the law of attraction work stops at step two and says,

Okay,

Now sit and wait.

Now it may come along,

But if we get frustrated and disconnect from the feeling of it,

Then it tends to drift.

So,

But yeah,

No,

I've had some amazing,

In fact,

My book,

Just very quick story on that,

Stephen.

I had a couple of offers in the early days for publishing and I said,

No,

Thank you,

They were good,

But I just had a few.

So I self-published and it really took off on Amazon,

A few thousand copies sold in the first few months.

So I was sitting in meditation one day and I just had this overwhelming feeling to email one of the publishers who'd offered me a contract 12 months previous.

And so I lifted the lid on my laptop and sent a quick email to O Books as it was,

Who publishes the book now,

To the publicist there and said,

Would you like to revisit this?

And as I pressed send,

I got an email coming in from the publicist saying,

We'd like to revisit your book.

So I think there's the certain,

I mean,

The mathematical chances of two emails on the same subject a year later,

Crossing like that are pretty remote.

So for whatever reason,

We both had the same idea at the same time.

And so I think,

Yeah,

I think if you,

There are certain things that you can use to your advantage and remaining open,

Setting an intent and being positive,

I think will certainly open doors.

Yeah,

That's amazing that's happened,

Ian.

I was talking to Jason Stevenson on the podcast about law of attraction and having patience as well.

I've noticed it started working for me in little,

In smaller things as well.

My podcast,

Talking to my teachers from Insight Timer,

You know,

Five,

Six years ago,

If you said to me,

Stevie,

You've got to do a podcast and you're going to do that,

I would have thought you're crazy,

But it's just happened,

You know?

Yeah.

It's been an interesting journey too.

I think there's a term,

Maybe Buddhism,

But certainly Eastern philosophy,

That 10 small steps equal one giant leap.

And everybody tries the giant leap and can't quite get there,

So they stop.

So it sounds to me what you've done is just broken it down into bite-sized chunks and made it practical.

And just what I've talked about,

You've moved towards your intent and moved towards your dream in a very common sense way.

So good for you.

Back,

Because I studied classical music,

Ian,

I was a clarinetist.

I wanted to play in the symphony orchestra.

And you know,

The chances to be even second clarinet,

First clarinet in any symphony is what?

Very difficult,

Anyone.

So I wanted to go there.

I had high expectations,

But doing the undergraduate degree,

I was getting depression,

Mild depression,

Really caught to me in 2018.

I finished what I did,

You know,

And maybe universe didn't want me to go down that path.

You know?

Yeah,

Yeah.

I think intuition and gut instinct is so important.

You know,

The old adage about don't push water uphill.

And we have this sort of closed nature about how it should be.

And this is what I really want.

And ultimately letting go and,

You know,

Is the best.

Anything now that doesn't feel right to me,

I simply don't pursue.

That might sound quite elitist or clinical,

But you know,

You were very,

Very kind to offer me a chance for us to talk.

I had a good feeling,

But I did look at the podcast.

It aligned with my message and the work I like.

So I've moved in the direction of you and this podcast.

And I think that's what I mean by steps towards what you want to create.

If something doesn't feel right,

Or it certainly starts to affect your wellbeing,

There's a really strong message there.

And so maybe you haven't got a clarinet in your hand,

But look at the change you're making in the world now.

Look at the people you're touching with your work.

And,

You know,

This will grow and maybe it will change,

But it sounds to me like you followed your heart and your intuition.

I can tell you another story.

I was a casual employee.

I was doing a sales job,

Getting $26 an hour.

And sometimes I'd get 30 on a weekend,

But the commuting an hour and a half to the city,

Something deep down there,

And I just didn't feel right.

Yet I was earning good money.

It was weird.

Yeah.

You know,

Coming home,

Not sleeping properly,

Blood pressure going up because I thought,

Stuff something up at work and I'm getting in trouble.

Yeah.

You know?

I think one of the things that I've come to know,

I think it's a universal truth,

Which means it always has been,

It is now,

And it always will be the truth.

And I think a true measure of success is how peaceful you feel.

So a true measure of success is how calm your mind is,

How open your heart is.

And the world is full of messages day and night that tell us we need more,

That tell us we have to achieve,

That tell us we need the promotion.

And with that comes struggling.

With that comes suffering.

In Buddhist terms,

Suffering is the inability to simply live with an open heart and a calm mind.

And so when we look back towards the end of our lives,

And we all will,

Let's face it,

I'm pretty certain it won't be about what we've got.

It will be about how we've been.

And sometimes it's too late to realize that.

So again,

Good for you.

You know,

You've,

My commute now,

You probably see behind me,

My inside timer circles live and interview space is five paces from my bed.

I make no apologies about that.

That's the sort of commute I'd like.

Maybe not forever,

But for now it really works.

And so let's don't create stress that doesn't need to be there,

You know?

And quite often you've talked about the hourly rate there.

We tend,

You know,

Most of the time our stress is associated with earning because other people are earning it because we think we need it.

But if you've been on one of my morning sessions,

Every day I deliver a message.

The simplest things deliver our deepest needs.

The simplest things deliver our deepest needs.

So in my workshops,

I do a very simple,

But profound exercise where I ask people just to take a piece of paper,

Draw a heart in the middle of it,

And write down something that they're truly grateful for to remind them of what they have right now,

Rather than what they need to go and chase.

Because we forget,

You know,

We're chasing the dream.

We're off to the next big hit.

And our life and our world is full of things right now to be grateful for.

And I would say in 10 years and thousands of people doing the workshop,

Whatever people have placed in that heart on that piece of paper has never had a monetary value.

So when we strip it away,

The simplest things are what really serve us.

So this is what's weird,

Ian.

You get high sportsmen earning these million,

$2 million a year contracts.

I know this is going on in the NFL.

Two years,

They're filing bankruptcy.

Yeah.

That's a lot of money.

Mental health issues.

I mean,

Before we even start on the financial aspect,

Let's talk about the cost to their health.

You know,

They're driven athletes.

They have worked hard physically.

There's a high dependency and expectancy on success.

So we see the bit on social media where they have the millions of hits an hour and the earnings and all of that.

But I think when they close the door on all of the noise,

And I don't think the money means anything to them at all.

In fact,

I'm pretty certain it doesn't.

I think,

I mean,

In fact,

I've known one or two athletes who I won't mention who have,

Football or soccer players,

As this might,

As it's a global message,

And they've earned fantastic money and just fell out of the game,

Fell out of love with the sport,

Fell out of love with themselves,

Didn't know who they were because they were in the public eye all the time.

Now,

I'm not saying it can't be an unbelievable existence,

And I'm sure it is.

People screaming your name,

You know,

Each week,

But balance,

We're back to balance again,

That word,

Finding balance in life.

Exactly,

You know what I mean?

It's,

Yeah,

It's,

And you know,

When that contract runs out,

That's it.

Yeah,

People stop singing your name.

You know,

You've had 15,

18,

20 years of people screaming and shouting and wanting autographs,

And then suddenly somebody else's name is being sang,

And who are you?

You know,

The author Wayne Dyer used to say,

Don't become the name on your business card,

The title on your business card.

Don't become the title on your email signature because if that title disappears and we can't control anything in life,

Who are you?

So work on you,

Not on the title.

The titles can follow,

But build a foundation around you as a person.

Really know yourself.

Yeah,

Wayne,

Is it Wayne Dwyer or Wayne Dyer,

Is it?

Wayne Dyer.

Yeah.

He's unfortunately no longer with us.

He's been a massive influence on my life and career.

Oh yeah,

He's a very interesting man.

I've got some of his stuff on Audible as well.

I've got to re-listen to it.

Yeah.

It's interesting how he explains spirituality as well.

Yes.

You know?

Yeah.

So he takes a religious stigma out of it,

Really,

And he said,

There's just something bigger than us.

Think of it that way,

You know?

Spirituality,

The word spiritual literally means,

You know,

Contemplating something bigger than you.

So over the years,

Somebody's put the word God to it,

And depending on where you are in the world,

A man with a long gray beard or Ten Commandments or,

You know,

A turban or whatever.

But spirituality is simply the contemplation of something bigger than you.

And that can be nature,

It can be the sky,

It can be universe.

In Japan,

I think it's called Shinzu.

They have a religion,

The main religion in Japan,

Where they recognize spirituality as everything.

You know,

An insect,

A leaf.

And I really like that concept.

So yeah,

And Wayne Dyer,

One of my default lines from him is when you change the way you look at things,

The things you look at change.

So quite often,

Just because of where we are in life,

The journey we're on,

The point we are in our life,

We tend to look through certain glasses at certain things,

And we project how we are onto that thing.

But when we work on ourselves and we change ourselves,

The things we look at seem to change as well,

And always for the better.

Yeah,

It's not an overnight thing,

Change happens.

It takes time and practice as well,

You know?

It's been a journey for me.

Law of attraction.

I wanted to mention that there are some teachers like Bob Proctor,

Tony Robbins,

Who I think,

In my opinion,

Have bastardized it and charging ridiculous amount of money to study from them.

Yet my teachers on Insight Timer can explain it much better.

I think you're absolutely right.

I think right moment,

Right time,

20 years ago,

When the world was becoming open to personal development,

About the fact that you could change yourself in some way,

There wouldn't have been 10,

500 teachers on Insight Timer then,

Maybe 10,

Who embraced it and started to teach it.

And I think the two gentlemen that you've mentioned have certainly made a career out of it.

I don't connect with their style or their message,

Each to their own,

And I'm sure they have helped thousands,

If not millions of people over the years.

But yeah,

I think that the genre of personal development and personal growth has changed now.

And if you look at Tony Robbins over the years,

Stephen,

He's developed more of a spiritual aspect to his work as well.

In the early days,

If you look at his recordings on pre-Oprah or some info commercials,

It was all about chasing the dollar,

Becoming a millionaire,

And there's an aspect of that now.

But it seems to,

Even Tony Robbins has softened his message to one of being in service,

To recognizing something that's bigger than him,

And he's quite big,

So it must be quite big.

But you're right,

Yeah.

I think they have an audience,

But certainly different to the style that me and many teachers who have come after have.

Like he ended up making a million dollars on the stock market and was still depressed,

Going through a divorce with his wife as well.

Yeah,

Well,

Back to the sports stars.

It means nothing.

Just keep adding zeros on that pay,

On the balance of that bank account.

If you're not,

You can't look at yourself and be comfortable in the mirror.

They actually add to the pressure,

Not take it away.

Yeah,

It's weird,

Isn't it,

Ian?

It is.

It's all about balance.

All about balance.

And education,

Too.

Have you gone to university,

Or what have you done?

No,

No,

I'm of a generation,

Certainly in the UK,

I mean,

I'm 55 now,

Where it was probably,

When I left school in the mid-80s,

It was less than 3%,

4% that went on to university.

So I have a high school education,

I started work quite quickly,

Built my way up to what was that sales and marketing role for the last few years of my life.

So yeah,

Come up through the,

On the tools,

As they say,

In the UK,

As opposed to a formal sort of education system.

So,

Which was quite a surprise when I wrote the book.

If somebody had told me 25 years ago that I'd be a published author,

I'd have probably told them they've got the wrong Ian Tucker.

So it's amazing how life can change.

Because we're all taught in school that we've got to get a nine-to-five job.

My careers advisor taught that.

And they always glamorised military life,

Always put a glamorous photo of a soldier,

But never talk about,

Never really taught me the real world and what's going on until you step out there,

Ian.

Yeah.

And I think the world has changed,

Hasn't it?

Even before COVID and the last 18,

20 months,

Which has moved us all to think differently.

I do think that the electronic age,

And by that I mean the internet,

You know,

The World Wide Web,

Has just enabled people to work,

To deliver,

To earn,

In a completely different way.

We don't need to get in that car or do that commute that you talked about earlier,

Or clock in at nine and clock out at 5.

30 anymore.

It can still be a viable means of earning.

But this thing that you and I are using now,

We're looking at,

We're on opposite sides of the world,

Looking at each other,

Chatting and creating.

So I think the world has changed forever,

Actually.

So yeah,

Reiki's interesting.

I've done some Reiki teaching on Insight Timer as well.

Okay.

With some teachers.

It's an interesting technique.

Yeah,

It's very,

I mean,

It's profound.

It's simple,

But profound.

So I do it every Sunday night at 8 p.

M.

I do Reiki Sunday,

Where it's a Reiki self-healing session.

If you want to jump in this Sunday,

I'll be there at 8 p.

M.

Mind you,

God knows what time that is where you are,

But it's eight o'clock UK time.

So 11 hours after this.

So it's,

But Reiki's amazing.

I mean,

It calls,

Again,

It just calls on us accepting that on some level that there's something bigger than us and energy.

Nature gets it.

You know,

If you look at trees,

If you look at water,

Energy flows through everything that works in nature.

If you stop water flowing,

It becomes stagnant.

If the energy and water flows,

It's healthy.

And we're exactly the same,

You know,

Energetic base.

We're the same as a leaf.

We're the same as a molecule of water,

As an insect.

So nature understands it has to keep moving.

We tend to think we can do it all on our own and we don't need help from outside.

And so Reiki simply taps into a universal energy.

And if we then work on seven energy centers called chakras on the body,

That is real to you and I as our physical form.

Each one has a very specific job to do,

Heart chakra,

Sacral chakra.

And we just ask that Reiki flows to that energy center to re-energize,

To unblock.

So just like that flowing stream,

Stephen,

Energy can flow through us as well.

And it's just had an unbelievable effect on my life.

And the change I've seen it make to,

I mean,

I don't call it teaching Reiki because it's universal energy,

It's yours anyway.

But I've probably passed Reiki on to 2000 people in 12,

13 years.

And it's been life changing,

A real game changer for a lot of them.

So whether it's yourself or anybody else listening,

I would really encourage them to perhaps have a look at Reiki.

Yeah,

Look,

Great show with you Ian today.

It's always great having you on the podcast as well.