Build Your Self-Image With Style With Jessica Papineau

Welcome to the Michelle Chalfant Show,

The next evolution of the Adult Share Podcast.

I am Michelle Chalfant,

And my goal is to help you to awaken to your true self.

Together,

We will break through your barriers so you can find your purpose and live a soul aligned life.

Each week,

I'll bring you powerful conversations with thought leaders,

Spiritual teachers,

Healers,

And change makers,

Along with actionable insights to help you to transform your life from the inside out.

Welcome to the Michelle Chalfant Show.

Hello,

Everybody,

And welcome to the Michelle Chalfant Show.

I am excited to be here with you today.

We have a wonderful guest,

Jessica Papineau,

Who's on the show with us today,

And she is taking a look at how we build self-worth by going at it in a very different way.

Her story is very interesting.

She gets into her story on the show today.

I think you're going to really like it.

I just want to say up front,

This show,

Although she works exclusively with women,

You men that are listening,

I don't want you to feel excluded because by listening to the show,

You're going to understand us a little bit more by listening today.

I think that you will absolutely have takeaways from the show,

So don't feel like you can't listen.

We talk,

Again,

We get into a lot about self-worth,

Self-image,

Self-esteem,

And she goes about it in a very unique way.

Let me tell you a little bit about her,

And then we're going to jump right in.

Jessica Papineau,

She's the founder of CSJ,

A leading styling company for high-performing female entrepreneurs and other women who simply want to look and feel their best.

Jessica has spent over 25 years in the fashion industry teaching women how to use fashion to serve their purpose,

Boost their confidence,

And elevate their self-image.

With a goal of helping women imagine more for themselves,

Break free from what's holding them back,

And show the world who they truly are,

Jessica is committed to empowering women to elevate their style and transform their careers,

Their relationships,

And their lives.

Here we go with Jessica Papineau.

So welcome to the Michelle Chalfant Show,

Jessica Papineau.

I feel like I want to like,

Woo!

Hello,

Friend.

Good to see you.

Hi.

It's so wonderful to see you.

My day just got better.

It was good.

Now it's great.

Thank you.

I feel the same.

So I want to start out by saying I'm really excited about this.

We're going to talk a lot about living your soul,

Your soul's purpose.

We're going to talk about,

Gosh,

I mean,

We've got a lot to talk about today,

Right?

I mean,

Your story is really,

Really incredible.

But I want to say this upfront.

You typically work with women.

So we are going to talk about women today.

However,

You brought up a great example earlier with me when we were chit-chatting,

That if you are in a relationship with a woman,

Whether it be if you have a sister,

A friend,

A girlfriend,

A wife,

A mother,

Whomever,

You want to understand better,

More deeply,

Et cetera,

This is the show for you to listen to.

And also you might have some aha moments when we get into the living soul's purpose.

But it's going to be a lot today.

We're talking a lot about women.

So I don't want to let any male man feel like they're excluded.

We are not doing that.

We want to invite you into the conversation today.

So where do we begin?

We started talking about living your soul's purpose,

And that's something that,

Gosh,

You and I talk about this,

Like I know that's where I am,

And you talked about your story.

This is where you are.

So how about we talk about you?

And how did you get to where you are today?

Because you are living on your soul's purpose or aligned with your soul's purpose.

And I want to really invite other people to reach for that.

And let's help people understand maybe how do they live on purpose,

Like aligned with their soul's purpose.

Let's start there.

Well,

I think what's really interesting is that it took me until,

Gosh,

I was about 40 to realize that there was this through line between the gift that I had of styling women and what that really represented and how that really was transforming women's lives in such a way that they were able to then live out their soul's purpose.

And I get it now.

I mean,

I grew up,

I actually grew up thinking that what I loved was superficial because it's exterior.

And so why don't I just start there?

Yeah,

Yeah,

Yeah.

Like how I grew up,

Because you would never imagine a fashion stylist that has worked with thousands and thousands of women on,

You know,

Styling them,

That I came from this really rural town in the backwoods of Maine.

My parents were hippies.

We lived off the grid,

Literally lived off the land.

Our food source was from the fruits and vegetables that we harvested in the fall.

We had an outhouse.

We had one wood-burning stove to heat,

Called the home,

But it was,

It did start out as a shack.

Actually,

It started out as a summer kitchen that was not insulated.

The story is I did start out in a home and then we moved to this summer kitchen.

We didn't have all the amenities to begin with,

But when we moved to the summer kitchen,

There was really no amenities.

So we had kerosene lantern.

We had a pee potty that we peed in all night and an outhouse.

And it was,

It was cold.

It was very cold.

And from the age of about age eight,

My job was to take a pee potty out to an outhouse and dump it in the outhouse every day.

And so,

I mean,

I'm sharing this story because I just want to kind of set the table because it's,

It's a,

I'm so not in that place anymore.

But that really is kind of the start of everything.

And you know,

I realized at a very,

Very young age that I had this gift and it must have been given to me by source,

By God,

By,

You know,

Whatever word you want to use.

Because I mean,

Obviously my family was not into fashion.

I was just going to say that like,

Whoa,

Like it's not like this was sprinkled in your awareness when you were growing up.

Okay.

No,

I didn't even have a television to like see what was happening in the outside world in cities and stuff.

Like I had no idea.

But what I did know was that I loved playing with the clothes that I had in my closet.

And these clothes are from Salvation Army.

Like my parents were not buying me new clothes.

The clothes were just to like keep warmth,

You know,

It was not,

That's the only purpose of it.

So take these articles of clothing out of the closet.

I would do this every single day.

I was an only child until my parents divorced and,

And my mom remarried and we became a blended family.

But up until age 11,

It was just me.

And I remember so vividly at the age of four,

Going in,

Extracting these pieces of clothes every day,

Putting on the outfits,

Creating all kinds of fun outfits,

Looking in the mirror and pretending that I was anywhere but where I was.

And it was the beautiful,

Magical space because obviously I didn't have a TV.

My,

That became like my superpower was my imagination because I,

I needed this special world to play in.

And so I would,

I felt beautiful.

It felt so inclusive in this really beautiful space.

I saw people in the mirror.

I mean,

That's how imaginative I was.

And,

But I will never forget the day,

My parents didn't approve of this.

Um,

And,

And I'll never forget the day when my dad,

Cause I would leave a mess of clothes in that closet and just pile them up in there at the end of the day.

And he came in with a padlock and he said,

You know,

You've been told that you shouldn't be doing this.

You need to be outside in the garden,

Play outside.

You,

You should not be in your closet making outfits.

And so he went to put the padlock on there and I threw myself on the ground.

I mean,

It was so vivid,

This memory that I have,

Because it really was something that shifted in me when this happened,

Um,

That I realized that my parents really didn't approve of what I was doing.

And it became in that moment,

Shameful,

What I love.

Wow.

Wow.

Wow.

It's fascinating to think about now that you are the stylist and I'm just,

My mind is blown cause I know you as an adult.

And I'm thinking,

Was this back in the 1800s with an outhouse?

Like what the heck?

Like when was this in the seventies,

Eighties?

Seventy well,

Seventies.

Yeah.

I was born in 1976.

Oh my gosh.

Okay.

So then fast forward,

Keep going.

Such a fascinating story.

Such a story.

1993,

My parents had divorced when I was five,

My,

My dad had moved back to Canada.

He was a Canadian.

Um,

He was not,

Uh,

How do I say this without sounding mean?

It's okay.

I don't care if he hears me.

My dad was a bit of a deadbeat.

Like he just was not a go-getter.

He just couldn't get his life together.

Um,

He went back to Winnipeg,

Manitoba and moved in with his mom.

And not that I had a close relationship with my dad,

But I saw this as an opportunity to live a different life because I knew in Winnipeg,

There was electricity.

It was a city.

There was a mall there,

All kinds of stuff.

So I'm 16 years old.

It's 1993.

And,

You know,

I get on that plane and I'm just like,

My life is about to change.

Like it's scary because I'm going to a new country.

I'm leaving all my friends,

But I wanted out of this small town so bad.

I just wanted to work in a mall.

I had been dressing myself for all these years.

And I would even like in Buckfield,

Maine,

Go to the library and rip out pages from teen magazine that were,

They were old pictures and like recreate outfits.

I wanted to dress other women.

So I get to Winnipeg,

Manitoba.

I'm over the moon,

Excited.

Type up a resume.

I'm an old typewriter,

Put on my nylons and skirt suit and heels.

And I mean,

I was gritty.

Like I was used to taking out a pee potty.

This was a walk in the park.

I was going to take two buses to get to this big mall.

And I go and I made it to the mall and I hand my resume out to all these stores.

And I am like excited.

And I'm not understanding that I don't have experience dressing women.

And so I go through each store and the managers were like,

Yeah,

Fine.

And they're kind of putting my resume to the side.

And I get to the furthest store in this mall and on the top floor and it was kind of tucked away a little bit.

And I just mustered up all my energy.

I mean,

I had been walking around this mall all day and my feet are hurting and I'm sweating and I'm like,

And I'm like,

Wipe my brow.

And I walk in with just as much enthusiasm as I had with the first store.

Walk up to the manager and I said,

You know,

I want to work here.

Like I love fashion.

I love style.

And I know I don't have the experience on my resume,

But you need to give me a try.

I would love to be here.

And she said,

All right,

Let's go.

And so that was the start.

That was the start of it all.

And,

You know,

I'll never forget.

I go in for my first day and unbeknownst to me,

I had just been hired at a woman's plus size clothing store and I'm skinny and scrawny and lanky.

And I didn't know that other women,

Powerful women had issues with their body or didn't,

You know,

Felt shameful about their body parts.

I had no idea.

I thought I was the only one as a teenage girl feeling awkward and lanky.

And so the first month that I was there,

Women didn't want my help.

They would literally put their hand up and say,

No,

I'm fine.

And so I remember I'd been there for about a month and I'm taking the bus to work this one day.

And I thought to myself,

I am going to have to change my approach because what I'm doing isn't working and I'm dying here.

Like this is what I dreamed of and no one wants me.

I felt so isolated and lonely.

So this woman walks in and I asked her,

How can I help?

And I'll never,

Her name is Kathy.

I'll never forget her name.

And she walks around the store and she pulls out all these clothes and frantically and brings them in the fitting room and comes out,

Leaves the pile of clothes in there.

She had come out of the fitting room a couple of times and looked in the mirror.

And I did see that she saw parts of her body maybe she didn't like,

And she covered up with a sweater and she looked defeated.

She didn't look like the woman,

The powerful woman that I saw walking in.

I mean,

This was a woman's like there was suiting 1993.

It was like women that were in these powerful positions,

Inserting themselves into this man's world.

And she came in,

She's trying on this suiting,

But she looked so defeated.

She left all that stuff in the fitting room and she went to leave.

And I said,

Excuse me.

And she turns around and I said,

I know you said you didn't want my help,

But you came all the way to this store,

The furthest store in the mall,

And you must've had a purpose,

But clearly it didn't work out for you.

Why don't you give me a try?

And she said,

All right,

Kid,

I guess so.

What do I have to lose?

And just like I had been doing for the last month of envisioning what I was going to put the articles of clothing,

I was going to put on these women.

I thought this is my chance.

And I pull all the pieces that I had imagined her wearing and I brought them in the fitting room.

And she goes,

I don't know about this,

But I'm going to give this a shot.

And Kathy goes in the fitting room,

She puts on the first outfit.

It was like these fitted navy blue trousers and this navy blue.

So it was like this monochromatic thing where it was like a shell and she comes out and I see her,

She looks in the mirror.

She does the same thing and she's like looking uncomfortable.

And I said,

No,

No,

No,

Wait,

Wait.

And I take her top and I tuck it in and I take a belt and I put her belt on.

And then I take this,

It was a long duster sweater and I put it on her and I take a necklace and I put the long necklace on.

And then I take a scarf and I lay the scarf along the side,

Put on her shoes and I step away.

I'm in front of her.

She's in front of the mirror.

I step away,

I peer in and I watch her look in the mirror.

And this shift happened.

She wasn't looking at what she didn't like.

She wasn't focusing in on her tummy and her hips.

She was looking at herself in all her beauty and her eyes,

Her eyes went from the tip of her toes to the top of her head.

I watched them and then she locked in with her own eyes and they filled with tears.

And she turned towards me and she said,

I feel pretty.

I never even knew that this was possible.

Like I just didn't know.

And she said,

Wow,

Kid,

You've got a gift.

You've got something.

You skinny scrawny little kid,

You've got something.

I feel amazing.

And that literally was,

You know,

I believe transformations happen in moments.

And that moment for me was,

Okay,

What I know,

What I thought I knew at age,

You know,

Four,

Five,

Six.

It's true that it really is my gift.

And so that really was the start of it all.

My life was very,

I lived a hard life.

My dad,

I didn't realize,

But I,

My mom had,

She didn't intentionally want to hurt me,

But she had sent me to her abuser.

So I was abused starting at that age.

I was treated the same way that my mom had been treated by my dad.

And really the,

My ability to have this imagination and use clothing and look in the mirror and pretend even at 16,

17 years old,

That my,

That I was in a better life and I could see it and I could disassociate from what I was experiencing.

Wow.

Thank you for that.

What a story.

You know,

We started out talking about,

Again,

The sole purpose.

Just fascinating that at such a young age,

You were able to tap into that.

You're aware of that.

You feel like everybody has that.

I would say that we get nudges or ideas about,

Gee,

Maybe I'm here to do this.

Or maybe I'm here.

Like you've met a lot of people and through your career,

Like,

What do you think that's true?

Um,

I think that there's a lot of women walking around,

Um,

Not a week to it.

I was recently at a conference.

Um,

And one of the things I was on a founder's panel and one of the questions was about,

You know,

Opportunity.

And the question was something like,

Um,

What do you say to those that are like,

You know,

I put in the work,

I do everything I can.

I grind,

I hustle,

You know,

But I don't get the opportunities that other people get.

And so this is like people,

It's human nature to kind of look outside ourselves and see what other people are doing and then compare.

Um,

But I thought that was a really interesting question and how I answered it was it opportunity.

Everyone has opportunity.

Opportunities are everywhere.

It's whether or not we make the choice to connect to self every day to actually connect with that,

That child that are that child that is still within us to tap into her or him and be curious about what she loves,

What she wants,

What she desires and what her gifts are to tap into that every day.

And then with that curiosity,

Pay attention to those opportunities.

When you say that,

I think about so many of us humans in general,

But especially,

You know,

Moms,

Because so many moms now are,

We're working and we're managing children and for this,

And we're making meals.

It's like,

We don't take time.

We don't have,

We think we don't have the time.

Right.

And I love that.

Just getting curious.

What would be some questions that,

That,

That we can ask ourselves in order to tap into that gift?

We all have gifts.

I don't think there's a human born here that does not have gifts.

We all have a uniqueness to who we are and what we have brought into or onto this world.

It's about taking that time to tap in and start.

I love that.

Get curious.

So what would be some questions we can ask ourselves to,

You know,

Kind of open that up?

Before I go there,

I just want to,

I want to kind of explain that,

That woman that you're talking about,

Because that's the woman that I'm,

That I serve,

That I serve in the deepest way.

She is that high performer.

She is either,

You know,

An executive woman perhaps,

Or she's working in some capacity.

Maybe she's an entrepreneur,

But she also has a family.

And she's really striving to be the best version of herself in every area.

She's of that mindset that,

You know,

She wants to be fully present when she's with her family.

She wants to hold the space with her children and really be a part of their,

Their growth in their journey too.

And,

But in work,

She wants to continuously elevate and,

And,

You know,

Reinvent herself.

But she's also the woman that like you said,

Michelle,

She hasn't paused.

So before even asking yourself a question,

I think it's just about getting quiet and pausing.

And there's an exercise that I do that I've done that really got me in alignment with my soul's purpose.

And it's something I still do to this day.

Um,

I believe if you take,

So there's a period of time from the time you first wake up in the morning,

There's this 20 minute window.

So if you,

When you first wake up,

If you don't try to wake up,

Like you go,

Yes,

Get up and go to the bathroom,

But get back in your bed and pause and be curious and sit in your unconscious,

Because you're still not quite awake during that period of time.

And this is not,

This exercise isn't something that's going to necessarily bring all kinds of clarity right away.

That's not the purpose of it.

The purpose of it is to start getting this stream of consciousness going and then writing.

I actually talk into my phone.

I know that writing and actually doing that is probably the better way to go about it,

But it wakes me up to do that.

And I can close my eyes and talk into my phone.

I did this exercise over the course of a 10 month period of time.

It was a habit.

I did it every single day.

And my experience was,

Cause it's more than asking questions.

It's just really getting quiet and getting like,

Cause into yourself,

Like,

Like really tapping in and tuning in.

And I don't think it's about questions.

It's about allowing whatever comes up to be written on the page.

And what happens is when you start doing this exercise,

Maybe the first couple mornings,

It's like,

You know,

You just write something down and then you read it back and you go,

Well,

That's gibberish.

Like what,

This is not working.

Right.

But,

You know,

Some of,

You know,

You're doing it for like a week or,

You know,

Days go by and just,

There's more and more on the page.

My suggestion is don't read it.

Don't read it.

But what will start to happen once you start tapping into it,

You'll start waking up even in the middle of the night and it'll come to you and you'll put it down.

It'll start to become so automatic because you're flexing this really cool muscle that you haven't flexed before.

And you start tapping into your soul and tapping in to the knowing of who you are.

And you're designed to be.

And so I did this for over the course of 10 months.

Once I had the knowing that I needed to start my own company,

I knew that I had to create deeper impact for women that I was serving in a boutique.

And I knew that I had to create something that was special just for them and that I could create it in my mind and I could make it happen.

And so I wrote Stream of Consciousness.

I'd wake up at two in the morning talking to my phone.

I wouldn't read it back.

After 10 months,

I read it back.

Wow.

And it was my business plan for my life.

Wow.

Wow.

I love this.

And this again,

I'm thinking through what you're saying.

Like it could be,

I don't care what gender you are.

This is for anybody.

I don't care what line of work you're in.

Anybody can do that.

And if you say,

I don't have time,

Then get up 20 minutes earlier.

This is about putting yourself first to really tap in.

It is a magical time because we're not fully conscious yet.

We're not in that day yet.

Like you said,

We haven't gone downstairs and made the coffee or the tea and gotten the kids out and all that.

It's like,

Ooh,

It's so quiet and it's your time.

And the thing is your soul's waiting,

Waiting and wanting to connect with you.

If we give our souls that time,

Then that's where the magic happens.

Isn't it ironic?

This is the irony of the whole thing is that when you're in this subconscious state,

You're not fully awake.

However,

If you spend time in the unconscious,

In that unconscious space,

Your soul wakes up.

Mmm.

Ooh,

Good stuff.

I love it.

I know.

I get so deep on the,

On the,

The internal because I'm really going from the outside in.

Yeah.

And,

And so I found this connection.

Once I discovered the connection between how we physically show up in our bodies and the connection to our soul.

What,

What,

What is that?

It's an embodiment.

So it's much like when I saw Kathy in the mirror,

What she did was she wasn't connecting to her soul.

She wasn't connecting to her inner gift,

Her inner self.

She was stuck in self in a different way.

She was stuck in seeing what she didn't love about herself,

What she didn't love about her body.

And therefore,

You know,

When we focus on what we don't like just been ruminating it,

It just becomes bigger.

Which is exactly what we do though,

As women though,

Is we,

I mean,

Men do it too.

I know men that do the same thing,

But we,

Um,

We look in the mirror and we're looking for what's wrong.

We look in the mirror and we look at what's wrong.

This is too big.

This is too small.

This is too that.

This is too,

Whatever.

It's like,

We,

We look in the mirror with the lens of judgment,

Right?

When we look in the mirror.

So my gift that I have,

How I've learned that I can support,

Well,

I know I'm not really working with men,

But how I can support women in,

In having that mind shift happen is I do it with clothing.

And how I do it is I show women with fit and fabric of clothing,

How they can highlight the best parts of themselves,

How they can highlight the,

The little curvature of the waist and the,

Um,

You know,

Their,

Their bust and how they can make a top kind of lie in a little bit more so they could,

You can see these beautiful shapes.

Instead of seeing a lot of people or a lot of women,

What I see them do is they focus on one area they don't like,

And then that area magnifies and they don't see their whole body.

So they're just like focus there.

So when I can show them how to highlight and dress them in such a way that they can look like Kathy did at their whole body and go,

Oh,

There it is.

I'm not just a stomach.

I have a head.

I have arms.

I have this beautiful waist.

I have,

You know,

These great legs and they can see their whole self and feel beautiful when they feel that beautiful energy and their confidence and frequency rises,

It can lock in with their own eyes and connect.

And,

And that's what it's all about because when she can do that,

She is able to claim those gifts.

She's able to then embody it so that she can look in the mirror and go,

Oh my gosh,

I look amazing and walk out the door and fully allow her gifts to flow through her.

And that frequency is rivet risen to a point of this attraction,

How the people that she's designed to serve with her gifts,

Because her frequency is so high,

They attract.

Ooh,

There's a lot right there.

Let me see.

That's such good stuff.

I love this because it's not about our size.

It doesn't,

You're not,

You're not advocating that anybody needs to change their size whatsoever,

Which I love,

But it is about dressing to impress yourself.

It's about you.

It's not even about anybody else.

And you,

And you've said this,

Cause I've seen you speak before and you're like,

I don't care if you're sitting home all day.

Like we were talking,

I might've been talking,

You might've been talking to me.

I don't remember.

We were in a live event and I'm like,

Well,

I'm just on zoom.

So I wear yoga pants during the day.

That'll change my top.

You're like,

No,

You need to be dressing head to toe,

Put the jewelry out.

I'm like,

But who's going to see me?

And you're like,

You do.

And I have to say,

Since,

Since I heard you say that,

I was like,

She's right.

Because if I don't have anything going on,

I will with the outside world versus just engaging with my team during the day.

There is a level of confidence that happens when we are dressed up a little bit more,

When I'm have a tiny bit,

It's not to say you're advocating again,

All this makeup and hair and all this,

But when I look good for Michelle,

And again,

It's not for anybody else,

But myself,

There is a level of confidence and that does elevate some.

And I realized that then what I put out in the world is a little different than if I'm just sitting around in yoga pants,

No nothing else going on,

Like no hair,

No makeup done.

So talk a little bit about that.

Well,

I mean,

I,

I just have worked with so many women,

And I asked them a lot of questions around this.

And like,

And I'm very analytical,

And I asked them a question,

Question,

Why?

Like,

Why are you not doing it?

I just,

I've always been very curious.

And it's really interesting because the high performing woman invests in herself in certain ways.

You know,

We're all,

We've all been really educated as,

You know,

Women that are high performers and growth mindset.

We know that when we get up in the morning,

That it's very healthy to prime our days with journaling,

With working out.

I mean,

I jump in a cold plunge every morning to like,

Get myself shocked and ready for the day.

You know,

All these things get our bodies moving and our minds in the right place,

Listening to podcasts and all these things.

And so there's a lot of intentionality there.

I know so many women that do this.

But then they haven't given themselves enough time for the next phase of that intentionality,

Which is how they're physically showing up.

And so if you take what magnifies that internal priming your day is when you take that next step.

And I call it getting up,

Suiting up and showing up.

So when you,

You know,

Once you're done your workout and you go in the shower and put the intention into washing your hair,

Like care for your temple,

Your body,

You know,

Your deserving of that.

And what I hear women saying is I don't have time.

I don't really think I should put effort there because it's kind of superficial.

They also feel this like it's superficial.

I don't deserve to do that for myself.

I should be putting my time into my kids or whatever it may be.

But taking that time,

If it's day five,

Like shave your legs and wash your hair,

For God's sake.

You know,

Get out of the shower.

Put your intention into the ritual of putting your skincare on,

You know,

Dry your hair like and do it with love and caring for yourself.

Listen to your podcast at the same time if you desire.

That's what I do.

But put that that is a sacred time just for you.

And when it's time to go in your closet and you're choosing your outfit for the day,

Just be thoughtful of what that day is going to bring,

Because really it doesn't matter what that day is going to bring.

If it's a Monday,

Go in there and put on your best dress and start your week.

To me,

Monday is my favorite day of the week because it's like what's ahead,

You know,

And put on your outfit and feel great in it.

Kind of marinate in that in the mirror for give yourself that pause.

Give yourself that moment to see yourself and all your beauty and then start your day because you're showing up not just for the people that need you to be fully present and fully in body embodying,

You know,

And claiming all your gifts,

Showing up like you said,

Michelle,

For yourself.

And,

You know,

When I listen to you,

I hear so much self love,

Self care,

Self compassion,

All of it.

This is again,

I love that it's for no one else.

It's for no one else but us.

But when you say the same thing to someone that is a stay-at-home mom,

Not an executive,

Not,

I mean,

It's everyone,

Correct?

It's everyone because you show up differently.

So as a mom,

Gosh,

I remember those days.

I remember when my kids were young and Ben was,

Gosh,

He was four,

Three and a half or four.

And I had this young,

You know,

I had this newborn baby.

And I remember I used to actually,

This is terrible.

I can't even believe I'm saying this on your podcast.

But because I was trying to maximize every moment,

My kids were terrible sleepers.

I would breastfeed him when I was on the exercise bike.

And then I'm like,

Trying to take the shower,

Right?

And he would,

He was colicky and I'd take my foot and I'd be shaking the hair and I'd be washing my,

I had the door open,

Be washing my hair at the same time,

Brush my,

I mean,

It was a,

It was a dance.

It was,

Nobody talks about these things,

But I wanted to feel great.

But I mean,

I remember sometimes I didn't have time to do all the things.

I remember one,

One day at the end of the day,

My husband coming home from work and I'm making dinner and I do not like to cook and I don't cook anymore.

But at that time I had to,

And he said,

Honey,

Why are you wearing your pants inside out?

And literally they were workout pants.

So the crotch was showing,

I mean,

It was,

It was terrible.

But then,

You know,

As I got older and started to realize,

I mean,

If I would have known then what I know now,

I definitely would have done it differently.

And because what happens is when you give yourself that time and I know what it's like to have kids not sleeping,

But to give yourself that time to get up and get yourself ready in the morning and do all,

Do that whole ritual that I'm talking about.

And maybe it's not that you're doing a full face of makeup.

Um,

You know,

You're going to be home with the kids.

You're going to be running to the store and all these things,

But still put on that skincare,

Still care for yourself.

And there is a way,

And we're actually doing a,

I'm doing a demonstration for my community today on this,

How to like show up for yourself,

Even when you're at home for the day,

Like not working or being home with the kids and all the things,

Because you deserve to put articles of clothing on your body that feel really nice,

That are good quality.

It's,

It's not,

It's like quality over quantity.

Like take that intentional time to put on luxury.

You deserve,

You,

You birth these children.

You should be able to wear a luxury,

Uh,

Athleisure suit.

Okay.

But when you say that,

I'm like,

Well,

Some of that stuff's really expensive.

When you say luxury,

When I say luxury.

So this is what I mean.

So many women,

I remember when those kids were little,

You know,

You go to target and you're going through target.

I'll just get this today.

I'll get this $5 t-shirt.

I'll get this.

Do you know,

When I see people's wardrobes,

When they first start working with me,

All the crap and wasting.

That's so true.

I got a lot of crap.

It's just a bunch of stuff because women make the purchase and they don't necessarily feel like they're deserving of getting the luxury.

So they get a bunch of the crap and really what they're doing is it's filling them up.

Like they say the,

Um,

I think it's like a 15 minute high you get from a purchase and then it's fleeting and then it's gone.

Right.

So my whole thing really is about,

Even if you don't have a huge budget to be spending on clothes,

You're very intentional and strategic about what you bring in to that space.

And it needs to be quality because you deserve that quality.

Now I'm not saying everything has to be designer.

That's not what I mean,

But I do think fabric is very important.

Um,

You know,

The right,

Putting the right fabrics on your body that are,

You know,

Made in such a way that they highlight your best features that they're made well,

You know,

As a mom postpartum,

You put on something that's really cheap and not made well,

And maybe you've washed it twice and it's pilling and the color isn't the same or it's not laying on your body.

Right.

You start looking in the mirror and shaming yourself.

What,

What do you say to women that when they dress with style,

As you're saying,

Um,

And it's uncomfortable,

They don't like the attention.

Oh my gosh.

Oh,

You listened to me.

We had this conversation before.

Yes.

And this is why,

When I,

When I work with clients,

Um,

We were,

We work together for a,

Um,

An extended period of time,

Because there's a lot of coaching that's involved.

It's the clothes is the vehicle.

That's,

That's only one piece of it.

So,

Oh my gosh,

I'm so happy you're bringing this up.

So what I do find that happens.

So she does the whole thing where she finally sees herself in all her beauty,

But then she has to go out into the world like that.

And be seen.

And that exactly to be seen.

And that's scary.

Sometimes she doesn't even realize that she is going into even like,

You know,

Business meetings and really wanting to blend in.

She says she wants people to take her seriously and she wants them to listen.

But then once she finally shows up in this like incredible outfit and her frequency is different and people start to attract to her,

There's fear.

Right.

Right.

Like,

Like,

Oh my gosh,

I'm being seen.

And now that I'm being seen,

Or am I going to be revealed?

Like,

You know,

We all have this like imposter syndrome thing that comes up when we're professionals,

When we have our own companies and we're like,

It's,

It's really,

It's hard.

It's not easy stuff.

And,

You know,

Also what happens when you start to raise your level of how you're showing up,

Not everybody likes it.

Talk more about that.

You,

You might piss some people off that really liked you the other way.

And it doesn't mean that they're bad people because some of them are family.

Sometimes that happens.

I noticed that happens.

So I always ask women because I get them,

I prepare their outfits and then I,

I plan them per day and I get them to commit to wearing them.

And,

And there's an uncomfortable,

Like I said,

In that.

And then when we do our call,

Our coaching calls together,

Like our strategy calls,

I asked them what it felt like,

Like,

What are,

What's the response that you're getting?

And the people that are the ones in their life that are more of like the energy suckers,

The ones that like to ruminate in their problems,

They start getting really annoyed with you because people that are not at your frequency,

That when you're at a higher level of frequency,

You could irritate them because they can't pull you down with them anymore.

They want to ruminate.

Break down a little bit what that means if you're at a higher frequency.

When you're at a higher frequency,

That means that you are fully in your power and you fully claimed your gift.

And so in doing that,

Not only,

You know,

The,

The exterior and how you're looking,

People are looking at you going,

Oh,

Wow,

She's the expert in her field.

Like she's the real deal.

That's part of it.

But then the other thing that is happening is that you're giving off the energy of I am the expert.

Yes,

I am shown.

I have shown up.

I am here for you.

And it's like a magnet for the people that need it.

So you may shed,

You might shed some people going through this process,

But you what you will gain are the people that really needed to be in your life that they weren't having that opportunity before because they didn't see you or even allowing yourself to be seen.

So much of that,

You know,

It's interesting when I think about what you do,

What you're,

Again,

What your career is,

It's so much,

It's not even as much about the clothes or the style.

It's truly you're doing deep emotional work with these women and really helping them find their power and be okay with themselves and even better than okay.

But,

But eventually through the process,

Like really learn how to love themselves and like themselves first and then love themselves and embrace their power and step into confidence on all the things.

It's such deep emotional work.

It's such an,

It's just a different way of getting there.

Right.

Instead of someone going to coaching or therapy,

It's like,

Wow,

Doing this work,

It's hard,

You know,

Hard for people.

I would imagine some people have a really hard time or they look in the mirror and they cry or they're overwhelmed.

Or I'm imagining a lot of emotion that comes up going through this process.

There is.

And I hold the space.

I have to hold that space with them,

You know,

Because sometimes what happens is,

And this is how I've really realized and honed in on why it was so critical for me to grow up the way I did,

Like why that was actually a gift because I have that ability to hold the space with them.

And when they can't see it for themselves,

I can close my eyes and I can imagine them as they were designed to be.

Like I can see them in color.

Like I can close my eyes,

Michelle,

And I see them.

And so when I can hold that space with them and they feel held and they trust and allow me to guide them there,

That's when they really have that ability to transform.

And I really,

I truly believe that transformation happens in moments.

I've seen it happen.

But,

You know,

There's transformation and then there's what are we going to do with that transformation,

Right?

How are we going to keep that momentum going and not revert back to our old,

Old self,

Our past life?

Right.

What do you advise for people?

I get that question a lot.

What do you say to people?

They don't want to go back.

It's about action.

So it's about having a coach,

Right?

It's about investing in yourself and having someone that can hold that space with you when you're uncomfortable.

They give a place where they have a soft place to land because you go out into the world in the way that I'm describing,

Feeling beautiful,

Having this high frequency,

You're going to get your ass kicked.

You're going to experience joy,

But you're also going to get your ass kicked because there are the naysayers and the haters out there that want to bring you back down with them.

And so what I say is invest in yourself to have that coach or have your person that holds that space with you,

But also continuously take the steps every single day,

Even if you don't feel like showing up,

Even if you don't want to be seen,

Because the only way is through.

You can't go around it.

So true.

You know,

You and I have had many conversations around claiming.

Is there anything you want to add?

Talk about the importance of claiming who you are.

This is something that when you brought it up,

So can I share the story?

Yeah.

I don't know what you're sharing,

But go ahead.

You really affected me.

It's so interesting how sometimes we tell people these things and we don't even remember saying them,

But it impacted their life.

It impacted my life when you told me this story about you and someone was complimenting you on,

I don't know if it was your podcast or how you delivered a speech.

I can't remember the exact thing,

But what I remember you saying is that you caught yourself saying,

Oh,

It wasn't that good.

Oh,

It was fine.

No,

I just.

And then you caught yourself and you went,

Wait a second.

I am.

I am incredible at this.

I am doing this work because,

You know,

And how you started out too is so cool.

Like,

Was it 20 years you were doing psychotherapy?

Was that 25 years ago?

Individual sessions.

Yeah.

And then you knew you had the knowing that you could incorporate this other piece and you created the adult chair and like,

You know,

And it's so magical.

It's so special and unique and nobody else has this gift that you only you have.

They have their own stuff,

But only you have this and you realize like you you're like,

Yes,

That is mine.

And you claimed it in that moment.

And I think,

You know,

We can be,

You know,

We can have our days that we're a rock star and we fully believe it and we've stepped into it.

But we have our moments too,

Where we're like,

I'm not that good.

But to have that awareness,

It deepens the work that you can do because when you fully claim it,

It's a very unselfish thing because it allows those that really need what you have to offer to be attracted to you.

Because when you claim it,

You share it and you shout it from the rooftops.

I was just talking with a woman at this event that I went to about claiming and I was talking and when I said claiming,

She was more talking about marketing herself.

And I said,

Marketing yourself is claiming what you do and shouting it from the rooftops.

Right,

Right.

Love it.

Yeah,

I can't remember.

I do.

I do remember you saying,

Oh,

My God,

That claiming is powerful.

I thought,

Yeah,

You know,

I just find that,

You know,

Let's let's take clothes,

For example,

When someone says,

Oh,

I love your place.

You look so nice.

Oh,

This whole thing.

Yeah,

But,

You know,

We're very,

We don't allow compliments to land,

Praise to land,

You know,

Sometimes we'll say,

Oh,

Thank you.

But do you feel it?

Claiming is the next level of that.

And yeah,

And when we do that,

It does,

It changes us inside out.

It's an inside out process that happens when we start saying,

You know what,

I am great at that.

I am.

Yeah,

Like I am great at baking.

I make amazing and I'm not not me.

I'm thinking of my sister and one of my coaches like I make amazing baked goods.

I make amazing sourdough bread.

Let's just say I'm great at it.

And what I don't hear in our world is typically that women specifically own it.

We don't own it.

And that's claiming like I am great at that.

And start owning it,

Start claiming that for yourselves,

Because that's where the shift starts to happen big time internally.

Because when you start doing that,

Everything on the outside starts to change as well.

You want to add to that at all?

Yeah,

I think,

You know,

I think we should talk a little bit more about women specifically.

I think,

You know,

We're brought up to,

You know,

Like,

Let's play a little smaller so we can allow her to speak bigger.

Right.

It's like this people pleasing thing.

We think we're doing the right thing and playing small.

Or maybe we're sitting with our girlfriends and we've had a super success in something that day and we decide we don't want to share it because we don't want to boast and we don't want them to.

Yeah.

To reframe that a little bit,

What happens when you do claim it and you do share it and other women see you doing it?

Some of them will say she's boasting.

She likes herself.

She whatever.

Those aren't your people.

Hold on.

That's big.

Those aren't your people.

Someone is jealous if someone says,

Oh,

My gosh,

I can't believe she said that.

They're not your people.

And that goes back to frequency.

Keep going.

That was so good.

I wanted to I want to make sure people hear that.

They're not your people.

Stop trying to fit in with everybody.

Stop it.

We've got to step into who we are here to become.

Step into your gifts.

Claim your gifts.

And when it when they are your people,

When your audience is is the type of woman that is also in,

You know,

Has that inner turmoil and is working on stepping into her power.

When she hears you claim it,

You've gifted her with something.

You've inspired her to know that she can claim it,

Too.

Exactly.

It's contagious.

It gives that other person permission to also claim their gifts.

So you're helping others when you step into and claim your own.

Oh,

That's that's a beautiful day with you.

Like,

This is amazing.

I love it.

I love you so much.

Thank you.