33. Love In Challenging Times: How To Create Resilient Relationships

This is a great opportunity for people to rethink and reframe their relationship.

So the way I always look at things that are difficult and challenging and when you can't see an end especially to it is okay,

Right now I need to pause everything.

It's a moment to rethink and reframe the situation.

And of course it starts with relationships because we know those are mirrors for us,

But it's put in front of us to really show us those parts of ourselves that we want to change and not just about ourselves but also how we live day to day.

I would strongly believe that no relationships are going to be the same when the pandemic is over as they were before.

They will either be better or they will be worse.

Take the time to rethink the relationship.

How do you become a better partner?

How does your partner become more supportive of you?

And so on and so forth.

But really take the time.

Spiritually we would say that everything that you want to be receiving,

You better be giving that.

If you want more love,

You need to be more loving.

Welcome to the Spiritually Hungry podcast episode 33.

Yay!

It's funny today I was so very busy and I get to see you a lot.

I was actually excited to be able to spend at least 45 minutes with you this evening.

That's sweet.

It's because you had a lot of me this weekend.

Yes.

Well,

We had snow days.

Yeah,

It was a lot of kids stuff.

Yeah.

That's great.

It's nice to be missed.

So we are going to speak about relationships.

Funnily enough,

When we decided what we were going to talk about,

I hadn't realized that it was Valentine's Day coming up this weekend.

Oh,

Wow.

I know.

I totally forgot.

As you always do.

Yeah,

We don't really celebrate.

Well,

We celebrate the Day of Love,

The Kabbalistic Day of Love,

Our wedding anniversary in August.

But anyway,

Many people out there in the world do celebrate Valentine's Day.

And it got me thinking that I think it's a holiday that some people really don't like,

Especially if they're single.

I think also others feel like it's forced.

You should buy chocolate or candy or gifts to go to restaurants.

And even if they resent the idea of it,

They still do it.

But I do think that it is an opportunity to rethink your love in every area.

A day devoted to love,

Whether you believe it or not,

Is still a day you can think about love.

And in fact,

I want to actually challenge our listeners to think about expanding and growing love every day of their lives,

Not just on Valentine's Day in all areas.

Whether it's self-love,

Which is the first step,

Or even if you are in a romantic relationship,

There is always work to be done,

Especially in this area.

So this is cute too,

I think.

Well,

I do want to say though,

In this time of the pandemic,

We find ourselves,

And I think for single people,

It's had its own added challenges.

A lot of people feel lonely if they're not in a relationship.

You know what's funny is,

I bet you the percentage is about the same.

The people who are upset about being lonely and the people who are upset about being with the person they don't really want to be with.

Right.

I agree with that.

And I think we're going to get into all of that.

I think the statistics are that,

I mean,

There are a lot of people who are planning on divorce and so on being forced to be in quarantine to some degree with their husband,

Spouse.

Well,

It's interesting.

I came up with a theory actually like 10 minutes ago.

Those are always the best ones.

Because I had a lot of- Non-proven and non-scientific.

I had a lot of.

.

.

Are you being sarcastic?

Well,

That's how theories are formed.

Yes.

Or opinions anyway,

If you want to call it that.

No,

But the thing is,

Again,

Just to clean up that statement that I made.

Yeah.

Go ahead.

Try to dig yourself out of that one.

Yeah,

Here we go.

That we know that the idea,

Right,

And Seth Godin,

Not Seth Godin,

The author we both like,

I forgot his name,

David Berzgoliah.

David Sedaris?

No.

I'm not even following where you're going,

Actually.

I'll tell you.

Give me a second.

Give me a second.

You've said like a lot of things in the last few minutes.

Malcolm Gladwell.

The idea that our intuition is often based on years of both wisdom and understanding.

So for you,

What I would say is that a theory on relationships would be based on all that wisdom that you have on relationships.

So certainly more than- So you're digging yourself out of the hole.

Yes,

Exactly.

You could have just not said the first thing and just said this part.

I would have been happier.

It would not have been as entertaining.

For who?

For us.

For everybody else.

Anyway,

As I was trying to say,

I had a bunch of phone calls today with people and they were talking about their personal lives,

Which honestly are the calls I like the most when people are authentic and vulnerable.

So this one person I spoke to,

He's been married for a few decades and he finds himself in a new space and a lot of epiphanies about what he wants going forward and where he wants to be.

And I realized with the pandemic,

I think usually,

Because you see this in couples,

They've been married 30,

40 years.

And then why do they sit in late divorce?

And usually they say,

You know,

When the kids were out of the house,

Then we saw our relationship in a big light because we weren't just parenting.

It wasn't always about the kids now and being busy with life.

Distractions are no longer there.

Exactly.

So what quarantine has done is exactly that,

Right?

It spread out that process.

For everybody in ways they never had to face.

Right now,

The kids are not only out of the house.

They're stuck in the house,

These two people,

Right,

With each other,

Having to look at their issues and their problems.

And so that process that people usually go to or they look at and they start to analyze their relationship and their life and really say,

OK,

This is what it's all about.

Am I living the life I want or the relationship,

The romance that I want now?

It's like it's all in front of them and they're forced.

And I think that's a lot of what's coming up.

So,

Yes,

That was my theory.

But I do think for single people,

I want to touch for both audiences,

Right?

I think that dealing with fear and insecurity now and the unknown,

Doing that alone,

I think is very difficult.

And sure,

As you said,

You can feel lonely even if you're in a relationship.

But I think there's that added aspect of not having touch,

Right?

Or just a person around you,

Right?

That I think we take for granted because we need that to thrive.

Absolutely.

Interesting.

I was going to say that it was interesting that they say there's eight types of connection that people with intellectual,

There's romantic,

There's also,

Of course,

Like you said,

Touch.

And I think for many people,

There's some things you can make up through Zoom and phone calls.

But obviously,

There's so much that you can't.

Yeah,

I read somewhere that this man was saying like the closest human contact he's had was when he touched hands with the cashier.

And then when he realized that,

He realized how starving he was just to simply have that,

Right?

And I do want to just,

I want to share this cute story because I think it's going to open,

I hope everybody's consciousness just to change whatever you think about this time you find yourself in.

Whether again,

All the examples we just gave,

Being single or married,

Feeling lonely,

And to really approach this place we're in,

Right?

To find that silver lining with really curiosity and openness.

So Abigail,

Our daughter,

She reminded me of this not that long ago.

And of course,

It wasn't about dating per se because she's only eight.

But anyway,

So she comes home from school and she's a smartwatch,

Right?

Because we live in New York City and we want to make sure that she can reach us if she needs to at any moment.

I'm an overprotective parent.

You are.

That's an understatement.

You are.

What's more than overprotective?

Crazy.

No,

I'll think of it later.

So she has a smartwatch and she comes from school and she says to me,

Mom,

You know,

I got a call from Sam likely and I'm and she's so excited.

And with her excitement,

I'm actually really like cautious,

Like,

Well,

Sam,

Who's Sam Sam,

A boy,

A girl who's Sam.

Do we know somebody named Mr.

Likely in our family?

And I realized that it was saying spam likely scam,

Scam likely scammers.

But I don't know my phone anyway.

Either one.

Right.

So she missed a letter and and I thought it was adorable.

But then I got me thinking that that that excitement she had that like who was trying to reach her and she wanted to discover who this person was and what they had to offer.

I mean,

Imagine if we approached every situation like that,

Especially even now.

You know,

I think that a lot of people,

Especially they're single,

They're opposed to online dating.

Like somehow it should be the old fashioned way where you meet somebody.

And certainly I'm not an expert.

I never had to date online.

We did meet each other in,

I guess,

An old fashioned kind of way.

But that's not necessarily the right way or the only way.

I think people have a lot of like sometimes I ask people,

How did you meet?

And they they're saying,

I'm going to tell you the truth.

But we tell everybody else a different story because they they're embarrassed about it.

When,

In fact,

I think we put ourselves out there even when we discover the relationship with ourselves,

With that,

Again,

That excitement that Abigail was like,

Who is Sam Likely?

You know that I think will really shift how we approach all things that all connections we want to create.

Yeah.

And so it's interesting because as I was thinking about this topic and obviously there is quite a lot of both written and beginning to be researched about the way people are handling relationships during this time of Corona.

And it's interesting because what you said about your theory,

There is a lot of right science around what happens when relationships go through stress.

And that's I think what's really happened,

Like you said,

Is that it's really been quickening the process often of of seeds that are already there.

But now being stuck in the home,

In the house with your spouse,

Your partner.

You're balling chain.

Exactly.

So,

So this actually is a really interesting book,

Which I do recommend.

Second my favorite book and relationship,

Of course,

Is Rethink Love.

And if any one of our listeners has not yet both read and purchased and already read completely,

Rethink Love,

I strongly recommend you stop the podcast right now.

Go to Amazon and order the book.

Well,

You've read it cover to cover.

Absolutely.

I lived it,

Too.

Some of it.

Most of it.

Yes,

The good parts.

So did I write the book or did you?

You wrote it.

So there's a book called Getting Relationships Right by Dr.

Melanie Joy.

And she speaks about the relationship as an organism,

As a,

For instance,

The human body.

So I'll quote here a little bit lengthy,

But I think it's really important because really we need to be thinking about our relationships like about in this way all the time,

But certainly during this time.

Healthy relationships are like healthy bodies.

They thrive when their immune system is stronger than the germs they are exposed to.

Creating a healthy relationship,

Therefore,

Requires keeping the relationships immune system strong,

Which includes knowing how to identify and treat the germs or external stressors that challenge it.

A strong relational immune system.

I like that phrase,

But I think for all of us really think about even when COVID hopefully soon is over and the vaccination becomes prevalent,

That this view of our relationship is needing an immune system and a healthy immune system.

I think it's a very important way to view it.

A strong relational immune system is resilient.

Resilience is the ability to withstand and bounce back from stress.

In relationships,

Resilience is made up of two main features.

And again,

Two things which maybe we should talk about more,

But I think very important for all of our listeners to really take the time to think about.

But what we know to some extent,

What enables a healthy immune system for the body?

What are the two key components for a healthy immune system for our relationships?

Security and connection.

Security and connection.

The more secure and connected a relationship is- I'm curious how she defines security though,

Because that means different things to different people.

Did she go into that?

Well,

Actually she does.

Yes.

The more secure and connected a relationship is,

The stronger or more resilient it is.

When a relationship is resilient,

It's better able to resist the relational germs it's exposed to.

Just as a resilient body is less likely to get sick when it's exposed to a physical germ.

If we're exposed to a germ,

Physical or relational,

That's strong enough our immune system can become depleted trying to fight it.

We can end up weakened or sick and we or our relationship may even die.

I think that's a very important place to really start this conversation around relationships in COVID.

Because what has happened is that there's been a global- Attack.

Stressor- Yeah.

On not coincidentally the human body as well,

But also on the human relationships that we have.

One of the things we need to think about,

Yes now,

But really always in our relationships,

That relationships must be or the immune system of the relationship must be strengthened all the time.

And the two foundations are causing each other to feel secure in it and of course connection.

When that happens,

Then yes,

When the stressors come or the germs come,

You will have the strength to fight them.

What has happened again now is that there's been this strong attack on our both physical immune systems and our relational immune systems.

Knowing that,

I think it's also important not to be overwhelmed because this is not for most of us the normal way we have lived our lives,

Nor hopefully the way we will be living our lives.

So it's important to also not overestimate the challenges that one might be experiencing in their relationship.

Because we often say this,

But we all certainly,

Monica and myself,

And I'm sure our listeners,

Always try or strive to live a life that is the best version of ourselves.

But the reality is that we can pick a moment in any one of our days and we definitely don't look like the best version of ourselves.

So writ large,

That's really what's happening now in relationships is that people are experiencing the bad 10% in a very significant way.

But if you take a step back and say,

This is not really,

Again,

Hopefully,

Even if it's in a stressful state,

This is not really what the relationship is.

This is the 10% of the relationship and you could take a slice even in long positive relationships that look really bad.

It happens to be that it's very much condensed now.

So I think there's two things that I'd like to awaken our consciousness about.

First,

That we have to be aware of our relationship's immune system.

Again,

Certainly now when it's probably under attack for so many of us,

But really always.

And second,

To cut ourselves and our relationship if it needs some slack,

That we are in a stressful situation,

Homeschooling,

Et cetera,

Et cetera.

Money also,

Money issues.

Of course.

So when you take a step back and say,

This is not the way the relationship will be forever and maybe wasn't before,

But it does mean that we do want to invest more time and effort to create a more secure and connected relationship.

But I do think it's important to not make the mistake of thinking that this stressful situation that the relationship is experiencing is the all- The new norm.

Yes.

The thing is also,

I think that this is a great opportunity for people to rethink and reframe their relationship.

So the way I always look at things that are difficult and challenging and when you can't see an end especially to it,

Is okay,

Right now I need to pause everything.

It's a moment to rethink and reframe the situation.

So I think that unless you've trained yourself to look at life in those terms,

Fortunately we do that,

Right?

That's the spiritual work.

But if you haven't,

I can see how this could feel overwhelming and never ending.

So pause,

Take a breath,

Realize that this is just a moment in time.

And actually what a great opportunity that wherever you find yourself right now in life,

Why wait until you're 40 years into a relationship or 30 years and there's this big,

Like we say,

Life quake,

This big change that's happened where the kids move out or now you're retired or whatever it is to say,

Okay,

Well,

I'm going to reevaluate my life now.

This is the perfect time.

And of course it starts with relationships because we know those are mirrors for us,

Right?

It's put in front of us to really show us those parts of ourselves that we want to change and not just about ourselves,

But also how we live day to day.

I think it's a very important point that regardless of what the state of your relationship is right now,

Be it great or as so many people are experiencing stressful and challenging,

What you're saying is that nothing happens by coincidence,

That there's actually something positive you can take and actually rethink the relationship.

I would take that a step further and say,

Probably rethink all of your relationships,

Right?

Whether it's a father to your parent or a child,

Certainly as a relationship to your spouse or partner and your relationship to your family members.

And to yourself.

And to yourself.

And to yourself.

I think too often in life,

Even when we have the time,

We don't always realize that unless,

Because the worst thing,

And this is true,

Whenever we go through something significant in life,

You either grow from it or wane from it.

There is no in the middle.

I would strongly believe that no relationships are going to be the same when the pandemic is over as they were before.

They will either be better or they will be worse.

And I think what you're saying,

Which I think is so important,

I ask all of our listeners to really take that step back.

And even again,

If everything is great,

Still,

If everything is stressful and difficult,

Absolutely take the time to rethink the relationship.

How do you become a better partner?

How does your partner become more supportive of you?

And so on and so forth.

Really take the time.

It's interesting.

Monica and I often on our date nights,

There's different,

Like these cards that are different.

I haven't yet found great ones,

So I don't want to recommend any.

I don't know if that's fair.

I think that we know each other so well that it's boring for us.

Maybe we'll create cards.

Yes.

But I don't feel strong enough in any of them to recommend them.

But to really maybe take the time to go deeper in both our understanding of each other and in our connection.

And I strongly,

Strongly recommend that each one of our listeners take this opportunity and might not feel like an opportunity if it's going through stress,

But take this opportunity to rethink your relationship because your relationship will not be the same post pandemic as it was before.

It will either be better because you're taking the step to rethink your relationship and really going deeper into it.

Or if you haven't done that,

If you're not going to,

If a person doesn't do that,

Then they're going to realize after the pandemic that their relationship has actually gotten taken a step back.

And I think a really great question,

Again,

Back to that call I had today.

I think it's to go back in time and look at the person you were when you chose the relationship because we talk about change a lot.

And again,

With all this new time we have.

I mean,

Of course,

We're still working in this and that.

But we don't have the luxury of the distractions,

Right?

We can't go out to the gym per se or out to a restaurant or to a bar or to a friend's house or you know,

So you're limited now in that way.

But actually,

You can take all of that time that you would use and say,

OK,

Who was I five years ago,

10 years ago in relation to this relationship?

Why did I choose this for myself?

Am I living in the almost where I'm just settling on some level?

Am I being half of who I am to be a couple?

Ask yourself these important questions.

Don't be afraid to hear the answer.

And then from that space,

You might still find that the person you chose is still somebody you find worthwhile.

But the way you are in the relationship might be different.

And that could be what's coming to the forefront for you.

Absolutely.

And one thing I would add,

It's interesting.

There's a book written quite some time ago,

The Road Less Traveled by M.

Scott Peck,

A really interesting book on many levels.

It speaks about love.

And one of my favorite teachings or statements from that book is that love is an action.

Most people think,

Or if we think about what love is,

It's a feeling that we have towards a person.

But in reality,

Unless you're acting upon love,

You're not really living love.

And therefore,

What I would say to others as well,

You have the opportunity to act with love.

What does act with love?

Sharing towards your spouse.

I think too often,

And I do,

Although of course it is important to take the time to think about what our relationship,

For most people what that means,

What am I getting from my spouse,

My partner?

As important,

I would say spiritually,

51% of your thoughts should be,

How am I going to give more to my partner?

Because love is not an emotion or a feeling,

Love is an action.

And the way to grow love is by acting more with love.

So while it is important to take the time to think,

I would hope that we are not exclusively thinking,

Am I getting what I want?

Am I getting everything that I need from this relationship?

All important questions,

But as important,

If not slightly more in order to make your relationship grow is,

Am I acting with love?

Am I giving?

As I've said before,

I have the opportunity to do many weddings.

And one of the- We're now in the 500 number,

500,

Probably 30,

That's fine,

50.

One of the teachings that I like to speak about in almost every wedding that I am at is the idea that in order for the relationship to truly grow,

Because we know that a relationship is meant and can be endlessly growing and fulfilling,

The thought has to change.

Whereas when you're dating,

When you're living your life,

Or maybe even in your relationships with almost everybody else,

You desire to receive more from that relationship than you desire to share to that person.

It's almost always like that.

You're happier in a relationship if at least,

I would say for many people,

You're getting 90%,

You're giving 10%,

You're getting 80% of giving,

But at least I'm getting more than I'm giving.

In a powerful relationship,

Meaning in a thriving relationship,

Your desire,

And not just desire,

But action is at least 51% of the time giving to the person that you believe that you love.

And so therefore,

As we take the time to take a step back from our relationships,

Whether,

As I said,

We're going through a stressful time or not,

Don't just think about,

Am I getting everything that I want out of this relationship?

Think am I giving as much as I need to be giving,

To my mind,

At least 51% of the interactions in order for this relationship,

For this marriage to be powerful,

To be thriving,

To be ultimately fulfilling for both of us.

I think as I wrote in the book,

One is ego-based love.

What are you giving me?

How do you make me feel?

Do you make me happy?

Do you meet my expectations?

And the other one is unconditional love.

That's the other side of it,

Where you simply love somebody because they exist.

And in that,

If that's how you view the relationship,

Then of course,

Naturally the inclination is going to be to find ways to show affection,

Show ways of love,

Just as we do with our children.

When we have children,

For those of us who do,

When your child comes into the world,

You're not asking,

What are they going to do for me today?

Even when they get a little older and they can be a little bit more independent,

It's just not the way it's set up.

Instead,

You're saying,

Wow,

I love this being so much.

What are ways that I can show?

And unfortunately,

In romantic relationships,

And it goes back to this ideal that we have,

Things we've seen in movies and the way we grow in this culture,

That relationships are meant to give you something.

They're supposed to provide something for you that you don't currently have.

And that,

In the inception of it,

Is the problem,

Right?

Because we're setting ourselves up for failure somewhere down the line,

When the euphoria of a new budding relationship wears off.

Right.

And it's interesting,

Again,

In the book,

The Road Less Traveled,

And Scott Peck says,

Who he spent a lot of his life as a psychiatrist seeing patients,

He said,

One of the most.

.

.

The biggest misconceptions that he had to get his patients through was that most of them did not even understand what love is.

For use as an example,

Which is a proposal that we said earlier,

Not to make myself look so bad,

But he said that one of his patients came to him and said,

My mother loved me so much she didn't let me use the bus until after I was 18 years old.

And he said to him,

He explained to him that that wasn't really love,

Right?

It wasn't the love that she felt for him.

It was other things.

And he goes into that.

And that understanding that if we're going to be thinking about our relationships,

Let's also try to begin to shift how we understand love.

And again,

His interpretation,

Certainly the spiritual interpretation is the desire to share with another person.

And the reality is,

Again,

There's some people who are born with a more loving nature,

Those who are born with less,

Some be more emotional,

Some people less.

And it's actually something I spoke about last week that we need to grow in our capacity to love.

No matter how loving you think you are in your relationship,

No matter how loving I think I am in our relationship,

For example.

I know that if in order for our relationship to be powerful 20 years from now,

I need to grow in my capacity to love.

And I think for many people that might be a brand new idea,

Right?

I am who I am.

I love how I love.

I can.

.

.

This is the.

.

.

Or I show love the way I know how to show it.

And I am limited.

If I am or I'm not,

This is my capacity to love.

When in reality,

There is actually a way to grow my capacity to love.

And by the way,

The most fulfilling thing about growing your capacity to love is that you will be more fulfilled.

Well,

How do you suggest people grow their capacity to love?

Well,

There's many ways,

But I would go back to what I said before.

Act love.

Act love.

I mean,

You don't feel it so completely.

That practice of love,

By the way,

Not just to your spouse,

It could be to a friend,

It could be to somebody who we don't even know,

A stranger.

That awakening of actions of love for the purpose of growing your capacity to love will have a great influence on all of your relationships and certainly on your most important relationship with your spouse or partner.

But it begins with this understanding,

Which I think,

Again,

Our listeners might or might not accept,

Whoever you are today and whatever your capacity to love is limited.

And don't you want to live a life,

Isn't it exciting?

I know for me it is,

To know that I can not only give hopefully more love,

That's always true,

But that I can actually grow my capacity to love.

And one of the most powerful ways to grow my capacity for love is to act with love.

And that's simply the actions of sharing,

Whether it's to my spouse,

Whether it's to my friend,

Or whether it's to somebody I don't even know,

Unless I train myself,

Unless I push myself to grow actions of love,

My capacity to love will not be able to grow.

Well,

It goes back to that example I always give with working out.

If you use your muscles every day,

You act with strength and you take these steps,

Then eventually you are going to be that which you want to be.

And it's the same thing with love.

And I don't think people actually ever think about love in that way.

They think they come into the world with a certain amount,

Or maybe it's tainted from how they received love when they were a child.

I mean,

We're so complicated as humans,

When in fact,

This doesn't have to be that complicated.

If you want more love,

You need to be more loving.

If you want- In action,

Right?

Right,

That's what I'm saying.

And if you want to invite more love in,

You need to actually act on it.

It's interesting too,

Because I think sometimes people,

As much as love is in our heart,

They're very cerebral about it.

It's very much in their mind and complicated about it when it really just doesn't have to be that way.

There's actually five points,

I think,

That are rules if you want.

I don't like the word rules,

But that you can start to apply it to reframe and rethink and then of course act on loving more.

So the first is fall in love with yourself.

And nobody really talks about that.

And they say,

Accept yourself,

Love yourself fully.

But to fall in love with yourself,

I think often people focus on finding somebody outside of themselves to really feel that kind of in love emotion.

So this is a great time to reconnect with who you are and not the version of yourself that maybe you find where you are today,

But that part of you.

And I always say,

Go back to,

And I don't want to say your inner child,

But go back to the version of you before we became complicated.

Just really simply being curious,

Saying what you mean,

Giving love in the most authentic way.

That's how children do it.

Right?

Yeah.

I was thinking about that.

And it's true because our love becomes corrupted as we grow.

It becomes more ego-based as we grow older.

Whereas when you see children giving love or showing love,

It's so clearly pure.

So if that formula just followed that,

Right?

That's step one.

So fall in love with yourself.

The second is be the one.

So fall in love with life.

I think this is a great time to learn new things that you wanted to learn or we've taken up cooking just in our own house.

Like we haven't gone out,

But we'll look something up.

I'm quite a very good chef.

You're good at the protein parts.

I get veggies.

Or learn a new instrument.

I mean,

The point is like make the most of your life in action,

Right?

Fall in love with life.

The third one is work on emotional connection.

And that goes back to what we were saying earlier to really look at where you are in the relationship and see where you can give more.

And from that space,

Work on emotional connection.

And I think,

Again,

This is where people get stuck in what am I receiving?

Not what am I giving?

You know,

I think you and I work really hard at this to continuously every day check in with one another to make sure we connect to talk about how we assessed our day,

How we felt in it,

What came from it,

What we want tomorrow to be like.

I think that's a really important point.

And then the other two are for singles.

In-person dating isn't completely off the table.

You can go for a jog.

You can meet,

Go hiking.

You can join a running club.

There's other ways to connect.

And online dating isn't the only game in town.

Again,

Do something outside of what you normally would do.

The point is take action in every area of your life in many,

Many different ways.

Yes.

It's interesting because that idea,

I think,

Is something we don't think about enough when we think about our relationships,

Right?

That idea that there's a lot of thought or even in our mind or what am I getting out of the relationship?

Turning that around actually is one of the most important ways to give whatever you want,

Right?

In order for a relationship to truly be thriving,

You have to be creating a space all the time that both of you feel secure and feel a connection.

So Dr.

Melanie Joy,

She writes that integrity,

She calls it the North Star of relationship resilience.

And I'd like to quote a little bit.

She says,

Integrity is the North Star of security and connection.

Is the guiding principle underlying all other principles of building a resilient relationship?

And that's really what we're talking about because especially now,

But the reality is this would be a goal throughout our relationship that how do we create and foster and create a growing resiliency into our relationship?

Essentially we feel secure and connected in a relationship when we trust that the other will practice integrity towards us.

I think that's the point.

The point is,

Yes,

It's important to think about what you get in the relationship,

But also the fact that you need to be giving.

And spiritually,

We would say that everything that you want to be receiving,

You better be giving that.

I love these two words though,

Integrity and resilience.

Integrity is a whole different ball game.

And I don't think that most relationships operate on that level.

And that's part of the problem,

Right?

Integrity is really showing up,

Saying what you mean,

Meaning what you say,

And being fully present.

As the best version.

Yeah.

I don't think a lot of relationships operate that way.

And that's why this is such a profoundly amazing time for people to reframe,

Reset,

Rethink the relationships,

Because we're going to get busy with life again.

And you will have this moment again where you wake up and say,

Okay,

Well,

What am I doing?

But now's the time to actually change it.

Absolutely.

And I think it's so important,

Again,

I'll stress this again and again,

Not just to think about what we're getting,

But what are we giving?

That's everything.

So if you do that first,

By the way,

Then you're going to see you're getting everything that you need.

Right.

And I would go so far as to say that to expect to receive out of a relationship,

What you're not giving into the relationship is almost crazy and almost impossible.

So integrity,

As she explained,

Is the integration of our core moral values and our behaviors.

So we practice integrity when we act in alignment with these values.

For example,

When you value justice,

You practice integrity by treating others the way you would want to be treated.

When you treat others unfairly,

You violate your integrity.

Integrity is therefore not something we simply have,

It's something we do.

Integrity is a practice.

It's both a roadmap and the behaviors that result from following that map,

Which then lead to greater security and connection.

And like many other things in life,

Integrity is not an either or phenomenon,

Rather it exists on a spectrum.

The question is simply how much integrity we bring to any given interaction.

Each interaction we have is an opportunity to practice integrity and raise the level of integrity in our relationships and ourselves.

And I think that's something,

If we're asking our listeners to really take the time to assess their relationships,

Don't just think about,

Is my partner acting with integrity towards me?

Is he or she making me feel secure and connected every time we speak?

The first question is how do I make sure that I behave with integrity towards my partner all the time,

Especially during stressful times?

How do we fight?

We spoke about that a little bit in another podcast,

But am I fighting with integrity?

And I think if we're honest with ourselves,

If we're honest with ourselves,

I'd say at least four out of 10 times when we're in an argument,

Really certainly the important ones or the heated ones,

We don't act with integrity.

Well,

How do you expect your partner,

Your spouse to be behaving towards you with integrity if you're not living up to that behavior towards them?

Don't expect to get out of a relationship what you are not giving into that relationship.

And interestingly,

Again,

Something that my father would often mention certainly at weddings is that at least get to the point where even in the worst of times,

You do not behave with less than human dignity towards other person or in Dr.

Joy's words,

With integrity.

And I think if there's something that we work on again,

And of course relationships are always developing and changing,

Work on your integrity in the relationship because the resilience of the relationship,

The connection and security that you want to feel in the relationship,

Which will make it resilient,

Make sure you're putting that in.

And I think every single one of us could point to a few times this week where we did not behave towards our partner with integrity.

Well,

And again,

None of us are perfect.

We're not meant to be perfect,

But it's much easier to point the finger at what I am not getting from my partner rather than saying,

What am I not giving into the relationship?

Completely.

And by the way,

It reminds me of a story of two women I know,

And they got in an argument over the toastiness a piece of toast should be,

How crisp it should be for a teething toddler.

And they were fighting and there was a back and forth and incriminations,

But they're really fighting about toast.

No,

They weren't.

If one of them could have said,

Okay,

We're just having a toast moment and get past it,

That would have happened.

But instead it became,

And they weren't even really fighting about toast.

And I think that for a lot of people now,

Whether it's fighting about sharing the dining room table as an office or the partner's foot tapping on the floor while you're trying to type a letter,

There's a lot of things in small spaces people are living in,

They're together all the time.

And those moments we need to arrive with integrity because you're not going to remember if it's about toast or about the remote control or about foot tapping.

You remember how you handled yourself in those moments and also how you were received.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

You want to say something?

No.

So I think that that is everything.

It's not really,

There's going to be ebbs and flows,

Ups and downs,

Arguments,

And not at the end of the day,

You're going to know that you'll feel proud of yourself and you're going to know that you did the best in the relationship no matter how it turns out.

And especially if you want to keep growing and you want to stay with this person,

If you keep showing up with integrity.

Absolutely.

And I think you touched on something which is so important and I want to really underline what you said because for our listeners,

For ourselves and for our listeners,

And I heard this and it really rung so true to me that in arguments,

And arguments could be slight disagreements of course to- Toast.

Yeah.

Or about more- We think that the content is more important than the process,

Right?

When in reality,

The opposite is absolutely true.

That the process,

How you are arguing is much more important than the content,

What you're arguing about.

Because the reason you are interacting with your spouse,

Husband,

Wife,

Partner,

You want to be heard.

You want to know that they want to hear you.

You want to feel secure with them.

So whether you're talking about toast or whether you're talking about leaving the clothes on the floor- Oh,

I have a story about that.

Great.

I'd love to hear that.

My clothes on the floor?

Okay.

Okay.

But the content is not only secondary,

It's almost completely unimportant because the reality is 10 years from now,

You're not going to remember that the argument was about toast or about leaving your clothes on,

But you will remember that the process or the way the argument went left you feeling hurt or unheard or insecure.

And also it defines who you are.

This is who you become by the way.

So in 10 years from now,

You're not going to like yourself very much if you keep acting with a lack of integrity in those moments.

But I think,

Again,

I'm just again stressing,

I really ask all.

.

.

I know when I heard this,

It made me stop and think.

In your relationships,

Certainly in the disagreements and the arguments,

Always remember that the process is significantly more important,

Meaning how you will talk,

How you will argue,

Than the content.

Because we'd like to think,

No,

All that matters is what's right and what's wrong.

It's wrong for you to toast it for five minutes when we all know that you need to toast it for three.

Who cares?

You're not even going to care about it three years from now,

But you will care about the fact that you did not feel secure or your spouse felt attacked,

Whatever those emotions,

Meaning the process,

The way by which you have these disagreements.

And the reason for that,

Again,

So that I think is,

Again,

If you really understand that and again strive to live with that,

Will change the way you are,

The way you interact,

Realizing that's,

Forget,

The content is not even number two on the list of it,

It's number 50.

The most important thing is the process.

How are you going about it?

If you have an important thing to say,

Realize that whatever you're about to talk about is number 50 on the list.

How you will talk about it,

It will be the real indicator of whether you've now had an interaction with your husband,

Spouse,

Or partner that will make the relationship grow or take a step backwards.

And second and related to that is the fact that if we understand that the foundations of relationship are security and connection,

That needs to be paramount all the time,

All the time.

And when my spouse is talking to me,

What do I care about first?

The content,

Is she accusing me of not caring about making a mess?

Is he accusing me of overtoasting?

Nobody cares about that.

Overtoasting.

Right?

Nobody cares about that.

What I will remember is did you or did I- I responded to each other.

.

.

.

Speak with integrity.

I just think that it's- It's everything.

It really is everything.

And again,

None of us are perfect,

But to our listeners,

If you take this and really think about it and really begin,

Whether you're in a moment in your relationship where you just cannot stand your spouse or if you're in a moment in your relationship when you love each other beyond anything else,

In either situation,

This is a key moving forward.

This is a key to make a relationship.

Remember,

The process is so much more important than the content.

So next time you find yourself in the situation,

Just ask yourself,

You say to yourself,

I'm having a toast moment and really choose the higher road.

Choose the process.

I mean,

Because honestly- Make the process elevated.

If not,

It's going to inform who you become and what your relationship amounts to.

Right?

And then to- And that's why that argument stood out to me that when I heard that,

This was like five years ago.

So I was like,

This cannot be.

I mean,

Really?

In addition to that,

Really,

Is that when the process is right,

You can talk about anything.

The content,

It could be from the biggest thing to the smallest thing.

By the way,

You just made me think about something because the reason I think couples don't have these deep conversations about really important things is because they can't talk about toast.

Right.

Right.

When the process is wrong,

You can't talk about anything.

And how many times it's sad and funny and ridiculous,

You see couples all the time arguing about this silly thing.

But in reality,

Really,

Because at the core of what it is- Undercooked soup.

Exactly.

That was the argument I could tell you about.

I got a lot of them.

That make the process better.

Realize that creating that sense of security and connection in every interaction is so much more important than anything that you're talking about,

Any other content.

It just really,

Really is so,

So important.

Do you want to share a funny story about my clothes?

Do you want me to?

If it makes me look terrible,

Of course.

Now I'll save it for another day.

Thank you.

I'll take that as a gift.

Do you want to share anything else before I get to letters?

I want to hear your letters.

Ah,

Okay.

I see my signature.

Yes.

Yes.

I always wanted to surprise you.

Surprise.

I just,

Again,

Before we actually,

Before I know we're going a little bit over time,

Before I get to let,

I just think it's,

I'm so excited really.

Whenever we do these podcasts,

The hope is that we say something that our listeners hear and integrate into their lives.

From this podcast,

My hope is we actually are in some way able to create more love,

Both in relationships and in our world,

Which our world so sorely needs.

So I'm very excited for the impact,

Hopefully,

That this podcast will have on our listeners,

Especially during this time.

So thank you.

So as we often try to do is to share some email stories that we receive from our listeners.

And I thought this was very apropos today's podcast,

But I thought it was really sweet and really beautiful to receive.

So this is an email from one of our listeners,

Students from Argentina.

Her name is Gloria.

So she says,

Hello,

I always listen to you from Argentina and it seems incredible to me that we all have that privilege.

I want to thank you for so much kindness.

That song,

Gloria,

Gloria.

Ghost,

Keep singing.

That's all that's in a loop in my brain right now until you formulate the next sentence.

I think you got my number,

Gloria.

Is that how you dance?

I have no idea.

You don't know that song?

I know the song.

I know the words.

I've never sang it to myself.

You just don't want to sing along with me.

I literally don't know that song.

The rest of the words.

Keep going though.

I was enjoying that.

I'm going to download it.

Go ahead.

Is it a good song?

I think it was in Flash.

I don't know.

It's something that I like to dance to.

I never saw that movie either.

Really?

Nope.

Saturday night,

Baby.

I don't think it's your cup of tea though.

COVID changed all of us.

I lost my place of work for more than 30 years.

I got divorced and many friends left me in my misfortune.

I want to tell you,

Monica,

That when you were in Argentina for your book,

Fear Is Not An Option,

That's a number of years ago now.

And looking into my eyes in such a special way,

You dedicated it to me and signed it.

Today thanks to my family and now I'll show those of you who are watching on YouTube or Facebook.

You'll see it says,

Gloria,

This is Monica's dedication to her.

My messy penmanship there.

At your core,

You are fearless.

Love Monica.

So she's talking now about the message that you wrote for her in the book.

Today thanks to my family,

A very small group of friends and your book that I have put in a very special place so that it is the first thing I see when I get up.

Thanks to all this,

I have hope and joy to know that this will happen.

We will learn a lot and the best will come.

I know that there are,

There's a lot of work ahead.

I wanted to say thank you because the conversations between you two are magical and healing.

Thank you very much,

Gloria.

Oh,

That's so beautiful.

So thank you,

Gloria,

For sharing.

Thank you to all of our listeners who share as we always remind our listeners.

We do this because of the inspiration that it brings and hopefully some wisdom that it brings to our listeners.

Please do everything that if you.

.

.

Can I ask you one question?

Go for it.

Gloria.

I think you know the answer.

I wonder if you can remember it.

Oh,

I didn't get to my question.

Wait,

I have a question for you.

What was the hardest part of living in quarantine with me?

There haven't been any hard parts.

There have,

I'll remind you.

I have a little something.

Let me think.

Let me think.

Hard part.

Okay,

Remind me.

I really do.

Monica,

Monica,

Where did you put my.

.

.

But that's always.

No,

But now it's heightened because now you're just like,

You walk like the stuff everywhere.

And so I'm constantly like organizing.

Would that be accurate?

Oh,

That's true.

That's true.

But I wouldn't put that on quarantine.

I think that's something that happens all the time.

You're putting my stuff away in different places.

Yes.

So if you receive anything from this podcast,

Please make sure to share it with your friends and family.

Make sure to go to Apple Podcasts and write reviews,

Five star reviews,

Spotify,

Wherever you get the podcast,

YouTube,

Facebook,

So we can reach more and more people and hopefully inspire and give some wisdom to more and new listeners.

If you have any questions,

Any stories that you want to share,

Any anecdotes,

Anything that you received from this podcast,

Please email Monica and Michael,

And Michael at Kabbalah.

Com.

Monica and Michael at Kabbalah.

Com.

We'd love to hear from you.

Even the stories,

Again,

We don't get to share all the emails or all the stories.

We love receiving them and they continue to inspire us.

So please make sure to not be shy and send us everything,

Every story,

Every piece of inspiration to any questions that you have for future podcasts,

Monica and Michael at Kabbalah.

Com.

And as always,

I hope,

As I told Monica before,

I've liked all of you before,

And I was looking forward to spending at least these,

Well,

Now an hour with Monica tonight.

I hope you enjoyed listening to this podcast as much as we enjoyed recording it.

And I would add that hopefully this podcast finds a way to bring a little bit more love into your life.

And if you find yourself having a toast moment,

Add some jam.

Bye.

Bye.