Hi everybody and welcome to Two Eyes Women Talking.
My name is Shira Khan.
Hi everyone,
This is Diana Zahir.
I'm so happy to be here with you and with Shira.
We've been together for 30 years as friends and students and teachers.
We're so excited to talk about the mystery and the path and this present moment.
So let's get started.
Welcome to the very first episode of our podcast,
Two Eyes Women Talking.
We are so glad to have you here with us.
And before we begin the conversation today,
I'd like to invite all of us to take a few breaths.
Slow ourselves down and settle into this present moment.
There's so much warmth in each one of our hearts.
And we share that warmth so freely with the people and the creatures in our lives.
Right now I want to invite us all to turn that warmth toward ourselves.
This is a big part of what we'll be sharing in the podcast,
In all of our episodes.
The different ways we can be kind to ourselves.
The different ways we can arrive and be gentle and remember who we really are inside.
So I invite you to feel your body against the bed or against the chair.
If you notice the sound that's in the room,
Temperature.
Maybe adjust your body,
Get a little bit more comfortable.
And just let yourself sink in a bit.
As I acknowledge a few more things about our intention and the goodness within all of us.
It has been a very difficult time on the planet during the last few years.
There have been challenges in our personal lives,
In our families,
In our communities.
Maybe in the state where you live or the country where you live.
And we want you to know that whatever you're facing right now,
Your feelings about yourself or your environment or anything happening in the world has to do with illness or disharmony or violence.
We want you to know that you're safe here and you're welcome.
And we are really excited to teach you tools to bring you peace and groundedness and a feeling of comfort inside.
And the more we feel that directly and somatically,
That can be a part of all of our relationships.
So a few more breaths right now.
See where your breath might want to go.
See what part of you might want to settle a little bit more.
You'll feel a little bit safer,
A little more held.
And as we begin our conversation,
Feel free to stay in this kind of gentle space with yourself.
Knowing that for these few minutes,
All is well.
Thank you for bringing us back,
Diana.
Just coming into the body is a relief.
And it's something that you remind us of.
It's there all the time.
So I want to acknowledge that all may not be well on the outside.
For some people who are listening and that coming to the body,
It may include feeling scared.
Or angry.
Or any any number of feelings.
What I appreciate about the meditation,
Diana,
When you said that,
See if there's a part that needs more holding.
And needs something in this space.
That if you if you have a part that's scared or angry.
We welcome that in also.
Into this holding field.
This really is a holding field.
I think that's part of what our podcast offers.
And it's come out of such a natural sharing from our friendship.
It's what you and I do together and have always done together.
To have a safe place to talk about how challenging it is to be a human being sometimes.
And that all the feelings are welcome and there's tremendous learning that can happen when we realize these other possibilities,
Realize this potential of what it means to have a human life.
Even under the worst of circumstances.
And that we want to offer that to people.
And that you can come and be with us and bring whatever is happening,
And we want to share teachings and tools.
So we can all feel moments that all is well inside,
Even if all is not well outside.
And we may not have grown up knowing how to do that,
But we can learn and even are so fortunate that we've received these teachings and these gifts and that there's an embodiment of some development.
I don't know the world's going to get easier anytime soon.
We're all going to have beautiful moments but it's a challenging planet.
But it doesn't mean that it has to feel the same inside that it does outside.
Right.
So,
In the wisdom teachings that suggested to feel peaceful inside even in the worst of times,
Viktor Frankl's Man in Search of Meaning comes to mind.
Before reading the book,
I felt annoyed actually.
It rankled me to think of somebody saying that you should try and be peaceful when you're being terribly mistreated.
I realize,
After reading the book I understand it better.
But I realized that part of my feeling rankled was thinking that I wouldn't be able to learn that.
But with our wisdom teachers,
Diana,
That we both learned from and then from what we've developed as healers,
We have a way of being with what is that can bring comfort,
Even in the worst of times.
And capacity,
Right,
Those two words go together.
And that's what we are sharing on this podcast.
That's been the wellspring of our friendship,
Really just being with what was emanating from in our souls and learning from that.
And we helped each other learn by our conversations,
And we want to open this up to whoever would benefit from that.
And the whole surrounding atmosphere of the holding field is inclusiveness,
Inclusive of any feeling that's here,
Inclusive of any misunderstanding that's here.
Every single part is welcome.
And we can't wait to share everything we know to help harmony be in here for all of us.
The lines,
The presence that comes to us when we turn toward our bodies.
It's such a gift and it's so enjoyable.
Sometimes we forget about it.
Even though I'm a teacher of this I sometimes forget about it.
I'm so grateful when I remember and I feel contact with the presence just comes in.
So grateful for it.
Well,
And I think you and I were talking earlier today about how challenging that can be depending on what's going on in our lives.
At any time in our life,
In our childhood,
In our adult life or during the pandemic especially,
Maybe some heavy things happening.
People may be sick,
We may have lost people,
We may be afraid for our own safety.
It can feel very difficult to relax and connect with these other parts of ourselves.
We're doing the very best we can in each moment and that's exactly what's supposed to be happening.
Yeah.
People have been through so much this year.
Yeah,
And might be going through it today while you're listening to us.
We just really want you to know that this is a space of safety and inclusiveness.
Whatever is going on in your life,
If it has to do with your own world or your family or your community or your city,
We want this podcast to be full of resources where you feel safe and held and supported and seen and hopefully your heart can breathe a little bit more while you're with us.
If we've done our jobs,
We'll be sending you out with some tools that you can take with you.
You can have some kind of companionship when you're in those difficult moments of your night or your day.
Yeah,
I really appreciate what you're saying about this.
We're offering meditation,
We're offering presence,
But it's the kind that includes whatever is happening.
It's not distancing from whatever's happening.
It's also celebratory if somebody is going through something really beautiful and expansive right now too.
We want you to have that friendship and that companionship for new openings.
Maybe there's such a depth that's happening for you or you're feeling so close to yourself in a way you haven't felt before.
Or maybe you're experiencing yourself as more than what you normally know yourself to be.
All of those different kinds of connections we want to offer in this space.
Yeah.
What you reminded me of just now is that through being with difficult feelings,
We can expand and become stronger.
And though it may not feel like it while we're in the middle of it,
It can feel like a breakdown or sometimes can feel like a very negative feeling.
But then by going through it,
We develop a strength and capacity that brings us more peace when we're through the crisis or through the difficult experience.
Maybe this is a great spot to talk about relationship and what that means to the two of us as separate creatures on the planet and as friends and why we decided to call this Two Wise Women Talking.
All the transformative nature of relationship,
All those elements that we can know.
Because a relationship moment,
As we're saying,
Might mean a person's in crisis and I'm here and I want to help you find resources to help that physical moment.
Or it might mean you're suffering and my heart is holding you.
Or it might mean you're having a dark night of the soul or you're having this huge arising of presence and you've never had it before and I'm with you and you can anchor in it.
So relationship can be so many things and you and I have been so lucky to have all these relationship moments over the years.
Yeah.
So I'm reminded of how our friendship started and that our bond was always based around exploring together,
Sharing whatever was happening,
And sometimes going into the unknown together.
We were babies.
We were so little and we were so curious and I think we were lucky we ended up in this spiritual school together in Berkeley and we had things we could learn and practice together.
And I think we just loved learning about being a human.
And I loved finding in you a person who wanted to do that journey.
I remember coming back from a weekend and you inviting us to lie on the ground together and sense ourselves.
And the way we would speak to each other on the phone,
It was with such an openness of what's happening now.
And then joining each other in whatever was happening.
That was really the foundation of our friendship.
Those were the terms.
That's cute,
Huh?
Terms of the friendship.
I just feel very open right now and I feel very connected to you.
I wonder if the people listening,
I wonder what's happening.
I invite people to check in with what's happening in your body.
Right.
I think it's curious that there's a lot of space in our relationship with ourselves right now and with each other.
And more and more people want to feel space,
Inner space,
Inner friendship.
But a lot of our connections,
Whether it's family or friends,
They may not have been created out of space,
More out of need or history.
And there's nothing wrong with that.
I mean,
There's so many ways of loving people and having them in our lives.
But to know myself as a growing human,
As somebody who wants to learn and create more well-being inside and then to have connections from that place,
It's a radical shift.
And I think you and I have had that for 30 years and that has been a tremendous blessing.
And it's what the two of us do.
And I think it's why I want to do this podcast as a source of healing.
Healing work is the thing that I love more than anything.
And healing the inner territory first and having that come out and touch all of the relationships in our lives.
That's the transformative element.
So even in this conversation right now that we're talking and there's warmth and we're excited and we have ideas to share,
But there's also space.
So that can feel kind of new for people.
You're here,
I'm here,
There's space in you,
There's space in me.
What's it like to listen to a podcast and feel space in yourself?
What does that even mean to have space?
Thank you for putting that into words.
When I'm with a client,
I am being a friend to the person in a similar way to being a friend to you.
Of hanging out with what is and sometimes putting it into words,
Sometimes just letting it happen.
And then there's movement.
Our teacher used to talk about an optimizing thrust.
There is a force in the universe toward healing,
Toward progress in a way.
I don't think he used that word,
But toward an optimization of who we can be and human life and life,
Period.
So when we're in that space and going into the I don't know what's next part,
Which is I'm in a little bit of that right now.
I don't know exactly what we're going to say next,
But then this movement happens that I really trust that movement.
I trust that what happens between us when we sit in this space is good.
And will lead us to whatever's needed.
I'm happy that's coming through right now,
Because at the time that we're recording this,
There's a lot of suffering on the planet.
So to remember again that the answer that's there when you drop in is an answer toward what's good.
I'm finding that very comforting.
And I don't mean to say pie in the sky,
Like everything's fine.
Oh,
You shouldn't feel suffering or fear.
I'm not saying anything like that.
I'm just I'm just saying that there is a response that the universe has.
That we can feel when we drop in and when we're together and yes,
Includes whatever's happening.
I feel that in the center of my body right now.
I'm really grateful that we're bringing these two possibilities together.
For all the reasons you just said,
But because I think this is part of how we can evolve in relationship.
That I am here in relationship with myself.
There are growing capacities in me of inner space and a quieter critical voice,
Which we're going to talk a lot more about in these podcasts,
Where I know what to do with my feelings and my thoughts and my experiences,
So I don't go into automatic reactions.
What's going on in here gets infused by inner space.
I learn what that is in very practical ways.
Then I can relate to you from a much more alive and maturing place.
I don't need to be old to do that.
We talk about becoming a true human being,
Which can sound kind of superior.
That's not it at all.
It's like the evolution of my life,
The evolution of what I want to do in relationship with myself.
That informs what I'm capable of doing with you,
Whoever you are,
Whether you're my parent or my child or my friend or my partner or my client or my student.
That this ground is what I have access to because I have a body,
Because I've been given this gift.
This is my science laboratory.
This is where I can know myself as connected to something bigger than who I am.
But I can also know myself as a person.
The two aren't separate.
However I learned to travel in there as an inner work student,
As an inner traveler,
As a prayerful person,
Whatever that feels like,
That affects relationships so much.
It's a relational planet,
So we want to learn how to do that.
We want to learn to be the most complete version of me,
The highest version of me,
The most awake version of me.
Not because it's a good idea spiritually,
And it is,
But because it's practical and it brings more harmony into life.
I feel more pleasure in my day.
It feels good to be the same thing on the inside and on the outside.
I feel so relaxed hearing you speak,
And there's a part of me that hears your words as an answer to a prayer or a wish that I had as a human being growing up without groundedness around me,
Without spaciousness,
But wanting to relate and feel connected.
So to hear you put it like this,
It's an articulation of something I've been wanting to hear a long time.
It's education,
Isn't it?
We talk about how what happens from generation to generation is full of love,
And it is so full of wanting the best for the next generation.
My intentions are so alive.
That's true.
Every single person loves their child.
If we go under all those layers or under anything that happens that is not okay,
And there are a lot of things that happen that aren't okay,
But at that very deep level of energetic reality,
There is love.
But there may not be understanding yet.
There may not be clarity.
There may not be an alive living of a truth.
What comes down through the generation,
Along with all those good intentions,
Are patterns,
Patterns that are full of distortions that happened the generations before.
We keep creating an expression of humanness that has these patterns.
When we have more education,
How wonderful there are so many teachings on the planet right now.
We are truly blessed with that part of human life.
There are many things that can feel challenging and horrific,
But we have this great opportunity to encounter teachings.
One teaching may serve us for a season,
But there is an abundance of teachings about how to melt patterns,
How to keep coming back to ourselves and directly,
Somatically know who I really am inside.
Not only does that help this generation,
But it is so hopeful for the future generations,
Because that means the next group of humans will know themselves more directly as space and who they really are inside.
It also means these patterns,
This grid,
Which has been informed by survival,
Is not the main grid of what humans are doing with each other.
We're learning to be present.
We're learning to let love hold us instead of survival energy.
So much is happening right now with the pandemic.
It's putting pressure on us and it's changing form.
I think this is a very big part of what we can potentially do here as a species.
We don't have to root our lives in survival.
We need to take care of survival moments,
Absolutely,
100%.
But how I know myself to exist in this body when I am alone with me doesn't have to be about survival anymore.
I love what you're saying,
And I feel what you're saying.
I'm wondering if the listeners can feel it.
I'm feeling it as a gentle presence,
As a bubble kind of around my center.
So it reminds me of something that I'll share.
When I was in college,
I experimented with some hallucinogenic drugs.
The first time I took MDMA,
And by the way,
I'm not telling anybody to go take it.
But when I did it,
Now looking back,
I realized my heart chakra opened and I felt my presence consciously for the first time.
Of course it had been there,
But I was not aware of it.
And I had a professor who was actually my religion professor,
So I thought he would be open to spiritual experiences.
So a couple of days after the drug wore off,
I went to the office and I told him that I felt this presence in my heart.
And he was nice about it.
I mean,
I don't know what he really thought,
But it was a huge opening for me.
And I thank the spirit of MDMA for bringing that experience to me.
I'm feeling something very similar to that right now.
It's a little different from a deep,
Profound spiritual state that we sometimes get in on these podcasts.
It's like my little human presence is coming out and it's super precious.
And it's personal.
And it's unique to me.
And it's also connected to the beyond.
And it's delicious.
It has a little blue,
A little yellow,
Some brightness.
I want to invite our listeners to just see if your presence is showing up for you right now.
See if you get a color for it or a metaphor or sensation of it.
See if you can get the quality of it.
And if there's something else that's there for you,
Then by your loving attention,
You make in contact with that.
Then you've also made a friend.
You've also had some connection.
So that's the tricky thing.
I happen to be having this experience of presence and I'm talking about it,
But I don't want to hold it up that that's what you should be having.
And I've done a lot of times of having to be with things that were really uncomfortable.
But in the times when I don't fight that,
I eventually feel better.
When I fight it,
It can become more of an inner conflict that can sometimes bring more suffering.
So nice.
I really appreciate you sharing that.
And I think that's part of what we want to do with this podcast is give a reference point for all different kinds of experiences that can happen inside of us.
And that's a beautiful one.
Maybe we could finish today talking about a general way of holding this because we're all such unique humans.
We're all such individual expressions of the life force.
There's no one exactly like you or me or any of the listeners here with us.
Each one of us is like a snowflake.
I mean,
No snowflakes are the same.
When you really think about that,
That's phenomenal,
Especially for me because I'm in the snow all the time.
There are a lot of snowflakes that I see.
Wow.
Yeah.
But we've been given this life.
What a phenomenal gift and some days it doesn't feel like a gift.
But it truly is the fact that I'm in a body and you're in a body and we don't completely understand in this way of not the mental idea,
But wow,
I'm here.
I get to be here again.
The Dalai Lama wakes up every day apparently and says,
Woohoo,
I got another one.
Right?
Another day to be here.
The gift of a human life is so precious and we have people we love and they're imperfect and they matter so much to us and we're doing the best we can.
That's all exactly as it's supposed to be.
But there is a mystery here.
That mystery might show up in our lives as a moment of grace or an answer to a prayer or we see a miracle or we feel this problem that won't go away.
Being a human is so many things and we want to learn about that together in this podcast.
We want to give you ways of exploring that safely for yourself where you can know your physical human life and it can be a source of support and happiness for you.
You can get more of what you need,
Whether it's safety or connection or learning.
But we also want to bring in this possibility that we can just keep learning here about who we really are inside because it is this ever-changing arising of the mystery.
There is goodness here.
There is wholesomeness here.
It's like a river running through us.
We're not in charge of it.
It's benevolent.
It has some direction,
Like you were saying,
Optimizing thrust.
Part of this is we may feel very much like a human with a life and it's solid and it's real.
That's part of being here on this planet.
But there may also be these formless moments where life is showing us things we feel in relationship,
In partnership with the life force.
All of that is true if we want to explore that.
If we don't want to,
That's wonderful as well.
Being a person and becoming the most alive,
Functional person you can be,
That's a great way to honor this gift of life.
But Shira,
I think for you and me,
We've always been these deep questioners and these wanderers and these little spots on the planet that are enchanted by what else is true and what's here now and what's arising in this moment,
This love affair with the mystery.
I'm really grateful we have a place to talk about it together and to share our journey in the present moment and things that have happened to us,
Things that we have learned.
That's my excitement to share everything I know.
I just want to download and see where it's supposed to go.
If something resonates for you listening to us,
I'm so glad.
If there's a little part earlier in the conversation that resonated more,
Take that away.
Honor what's happening in you.
We can each do that with ourselves.
What's true for me right now is dot,
Dot,
Dot.
What felt good for me right then was dot,
Dot,
Dot.
What makes me feel safe right now is dot,
Dot,
Dot.
Have those little prompts for yourself.
How about for you?
How does that feel as a closing today?
Yeah,
That feels like a great place to close.
I also want to say nice to meet you,
To the people who are listening,
And to name that we're meeting in a deep place.
We're meeting in a place of your listening,
And Diana and I are listening to ourselves in a deep place while we're talking.
And that's not always where people meet,
But it's a beautiful place to meet.
So I feel the preciousness of that.
And we'll see you next time.
So Shira,
More to come on this topic and many others.
I'm so glad we got to do this today.
Yes,
And I want to thank all of the listeners for engaging with us,
And with this material.
Have a beautiful day and a beautiful night,
Everybody.
And be sure to enjoy your closeness with yourself and with everything you love.
Bye for now.
