Preparing To Fight

Hi everybody and welcome to Two Eyes Women Talking.

My name is Shira Khan.

Hi everyone.

This is Diana Zahir.

I'm so happy to be here with you and with Shira.

We've been together for 30 years as friends and students and teachers.

We're so excited to talk about the mystery and the path and this present moment.

So let's get started.

We have arrived at this very important moment in the podcast where all of the learning we've been doing about being ourselves,

Being a person,

Being connected to what's inside.

We're going to take this incredible understanding and talk about how we can be ourselves when there is some disagreement,

When there's a conflict,

When we're different than the people in our environment and especially the people we care about.

So I invite you to take a breath with me,

To check in with yourself.

Feel your body,

Feel whatever's going on inside of there.

This might be sensitive with what's going on in the world,

With what's going on in your family,

In your environment,

But we're here together and we are going to learn how to be ourselves,

How to have more possibility in communication,

In understanding,

In resolution,

From that vertical,

Alive,

Fully resourced place inside of us that is so much bigger than anything that's ever happened to us or anything we've ever done.

So let's take one more breath.

So glad you're here as we prepare for the fight.

Shira,

I want to talk today,

I want to start talking today by acknowledging how much time you and I spend talking about couples' relationships together and how much time we spend working with amazing couples who are so brave and open to learning new ways of communicating when there's conflict because nobody wants to fight.

It's so painful,

It's so scary,

It's so overwhelming and usually there's some kind of blow-up and a lack of resolution and everybody feels exhausted and drained and fried out.

This is something that happens for most relationships.

Yeah.

Yeah,

It's really heartbreaking and energy gobbling.

It takes up so much of our individual resources and our collective resources.

This is a very hard part about being a human,

That you love this person so much and there can be these big misunderstandings.

Almost makes a person not want to be in relationship.

Right,

But then that's also really hard not to be in relationship.

Yeah,

That's where there's so much of our learning.

It's a relational planet,

We feel our hearts respond to people.

When it's good,

It's amazing.

Well,

And we just need people.

We're wired for attachment,

We're wired for connection,

So we want that.

One of the things that I've learned from working with couples is how vulnerable we are to our loved ones.

There's so much at stake with them,

That's why we get so upset.

What really got clear to me when I became a couples counselor is how vulnerable we are in relationship.

We're so vulnerable with our loved ones because there's so much at stake.

And again,

We go back to that for humans,

We're wired for connection and when we're disconnected,

It is felt like an emergency.

Yeah.

So there's a saying in the couples world,

It's not about the fill in the blank,

It's not about the toast,

It's not about the.

.

.

Right,

It's about I feel out of connection with you because of that thing you did or I feel like you don't love me because of that thing you did.

Along with that,

So we may get mad at our partner about the toothpaste or the toast and we may show them the anger,

But it's something for you to know about yourself and about your partner that the level of anger,

The volume of it,

Is commensurate with the feeling of vulnerability that's in there.

Or we could even say how much history is showing up right now.

Okay,

Yeah.

Right,

Because if I am hanging out with myself and there's space inside of me and I can track myself and be kind to myself,

You may be doing something with the toothpaste that bugs me,

But eh,

How does it matter?

But if I have a lot going on in here and it's really difficult for me to be with my history,

It can get shot out over there really easily and projected onto the situation.

Exactly.

So what we're doing in this podcast,

I feel like it's a microcosm of what we do in couple sessions,

Which is we help people get to what's at the bottom of it.

And it may surprise them.

It may be a specific memory or it may be a wound as a result of a series of things that happened,

But there's always a reason.

Yeah,

Of course.

And what we've been focusing on in the podcast previous to this one,

But we're really focusing on it in this one,

Is if you know that you might be feeling vulnerable and you can contact that and have compassion,

That's the best preparation for the next time there's a conflagration with your partner.

Because then there's,

It's like you've preemptively had empathy for that moment when the heat rises.

So there will be an echelon of space in your experience.

That's what we're going toward here.

So for you to start with knowing,

I'm vulnerable inside when it comes to my loved ones,

That's normal,

That comes with the territory of being human.

And then for you to get to know what your particular vulnerabilities are,

Then you've already,

It's like you paid it forward.

You've paid some love and some compassion forward into the fight.

And if you also know your partner's vulnerabilities,

And if you have the approach that,

Okay,

Underneath that person,

Kind of being a jerk right now and being angry at me,

Underneath that there's vulnerability,

For you to know that,

Then you pay that forward toward the other person in the fight too.

I want to link this back to what we were saying in the earlier episodes,

Which we were kind of preparing for this conversation.

What am I doing with me if I start there and maybe I don't even know and then I remember,

Oh,

I can check on me.

Because in the fight I'm so focused on the other person and how they should be different.

But if I can somehow remember that checking in with myself or that friendship with myself,

It's very stabilizing,

It's very anchoring.

Yeah,

It's the basis for having ballast,

Having a center in a fight.

So for the listeners who know my work with disordered eating,

I emphasize first working with your constitution,

Seeing what's happening in the way that you talk to yourself and how that's affecting your nervous system.

Because behavioral changes,

They depend upon what's happening on your constitution.

It's very hard to make behavioral changes with eating if your nervous system is triggered.

And it's the same thing if you're talking with your partner.

To know what's happening with yourself and have that connection,

This is crucial because at least somewhere then there's a connection.

When we feel like we are a hundred percent disconnected from the partner,

It goes along with being disconnected from ourselves.

So to check in and say what's happening with me,

Just to ask that question,

Then that part that's feeling really alone is that much less alone.

And of course the more we can get connected with ourselves the better.

I just want to say to the folks at home that it's taken me a while to stay connected to myself before,

During,

And after a fight.

I learned a lot of that from you,

Diana.

And I really thank you for that.

So make time and room for a learning curve.

But every step in that direction helps.

Yeah.

I think the word I always like to bring in innocence,

But I'm also thinking about naturalness.

It's much more natural for most of us to love and be close in all the ways we can.

Small,

Simple,

Big,

Passionate.

But when we're uncomfortable it feels so unnatural to let the person know.

And it might be a small thing,

Like we don't have to do a big process and go into history,

But you know,

Can you turn the volume down?

Or what you're doing is bugging me?

Or can you stop that?

Or could you do this?

That's very hard for us because of history and because of just this fear we might put pressure on the love.

Right.

So I think that's another wish we have in these episodes coming up that we're gonna be able to teach you how to feel more comfortable in your existence,

Which we've already been working with.

But it doesn't mean I'm existing just so I can give you a hug.

I might be existing so I can say,

Hey,

Could you do this?

Or hey,

Stop doing that.

And that could feel equally as natural as giving a hug.

Right.

So you're talking about a relationship with two people in it.

It's me giving you a hug but also you being there for me.

So I want to add in that it's putting pressure on the love.

That's what our superego tells us.

That's what our critical voice tells us.

If we have a need or a desire arising when we're in the presence of another,

We're specifically,

A lot of us,

Afraid of losing the connection.

And sadly that fear may come from having lost the connection with a well-intentioned,

Perhaps even a loving caregiver,

But somebody who didn't know how to navigate two people in the relationship.

And it may have come from a time when,

In fact,

The connection was lost if you needed something or said something or disagreed.

So we have mad understanding for that fear of losing connection.

But that's when we come in with the new questions that we ask and the new skill set.

Is this true now that I will lose the connection if I say,

Please turn down the TV?

Do I have a process in myself and with my loved one where when we disagree,

We stay with what arises until we can come back into connection with each other?

Let's stop for a moment and feel inside.

Let's remember ourselves.

We have a lot of amazing information and understanding coming toward us.

We're listening to it.

We're feeling it.

It may be bringing up discomfort.

It may be feeling very supportive.

So I want us to take a couple of breaths.

Remember our nature.

Remember our naturalness as this alive person on the planet who's getting to learn and grow and have company while we're doing it.

And now let's go back to the conversation.

When you mentioned that we don't say things to our partner because we don't want to put pressure on the love,

I'm thinking about that specific fear of losing the connection.

I say something that I'll lose that person.

Yeah,

We really believe that,

Don't we?

Yeah,

And we shut down and we try not to need what we want.

We try not to feel what we're feeling in order to preserve the relationship.

Yeah,

I think a way I've been talking about it in individual work but especially in couples work is we go offline,

Right?

We're still in the room,

But I'm not really there with my needs and my feelings and my communication.

I'm really careful.

Yeah.

Yeah,

That is exhausting.

Yes,

And it's disappointing because then you're not really in connection.

You're not giving or receiving what you really want.

Yeah,

And I think we can tell when our partner's offline and then maybe we have a reaction to that and a whole ping-pong ball back and forth between two people who are disconnected and really believing with all our hearts.

I need the other person to be the same as me or the way I need them to be and then I'll come back online.

I don't realize I can just get myself back online.

Mm-hmm.

So that's what we're teaching in today's podcast especially but also in the podcasts previous to this one.

If you have a connection with yourself,

Then you're not completely alone.

Right,

Which is a great idea.

It's a great concept.

I think until we actually feel that,

We don't believe it.

Mm-hmm.

People tell me about those moments when they remember they can do that and they disconnect from an argument and go and have a moment with themselves and feel that unity and that friendship and how life-changing that is.

It just moves the prism into another position.

It's like,

Whoa,

And then when they go back to the partner,

They feel so much more resourced because they feel close to themselves.

It's really bold.

It's bold.

It's different.

Yeah,

To consider,

I mean,

Could be totally wrong.

Skepticism is so important here but what if that's true?

What if I take a little break,

A walk,

A shower,

Go and breathe outside and look at nature?

Does it shift me?

Does it shift my perception?

Does it shift what's possible in the person hearing me?

Because that's what I want.

I want them to hear my experience.

So as people contemplate turning toward themselves when they're triggered with a partner,

I want to say humbly that when I first learned that this was an option,

I felt angry because the part that wanted to stay connected at any cost and was mad that I was disconnected and wanted my partner to be different so that we could stay connected or wanted me to be different so that the connection would remain.

When it was suggested to turn inward,

It made me mad because that part felt like I didn't get it then when I was a kid.

People around me were disconnecting from me all the time.

I didn't get enough connection and now you want me to skip over that again.

You want me to skip over that and not get what I need from the other person and turn inward.

So I want to have compassion for that,

That that might be part of your experience,

That that's important and the part that didn't get connected with when it needed to grow in your history and isn't getting that now from the partner.

You have a right to be mad.

Go ahead and be mad.

Yeah,

It's not fair.

It's not fair.

It hurts.

That being said,

Getting mad at your partner and expressing this toward your partner may not work out.

It may hurt the partner and if your partner is triggered,

Your partner can't be that reliable person anyway.

So you're better off.

Well,

That's not effective.

It's understandable,

But it's not effective.

Your chances of feeling better are greater if you turn to your other resources toward yourself or a friend or a teacher.

You're more likely to get what it is that you're after.

Sure,

I think the word you and I were talking about earlier is reasonable,

Right?

Right.

It's reasonable to feel this way inside given what didn't get met in history and maybe the way my partner is amazing,

But they don't have this particular abundance that I need.

So it's reasonable for me to be pissed.

It's reasonable for me to be disappointed.

I think reasonable is such an awesome word,

But the other question is,

Is it effective if I keep getting mad at this person or taking out my historical disappointment in our misunderstandings?

Is it effective?

Do I end up getting what I need or do we have some kind of benefit from that?

And if it's not effective,

That's where it's useful to see that because we want to be effective.

Mm-hmm.

We want to reconnect.

Well,

And there are a lot of steps in here which involve actually reconnecting with our partner,

Which we're going to keep talking about how to take those steps.

But I think to have it as a possibility in our minds,

What's true energetically is that the adult me,

The one who's listening to the podcast and learning,

Is so well suited to giving the younger me what I missed out on and what I'm really hoping the partner can give me.

I'm probably much more able to feel the nuance of what I want because I'm in this body and because I'm doing this kind of work,

My heart is probably more available.

I mean my partner might be too,

But it's like a few steps removed to get it outside of myself.

Yes,

And nobody knows you better than you.

Yes.

And nobody can feel what you need more than you because it's emanating from inside of you.

Right.

So we may get interrupted,

Right?

The critical voice may come in here and be what we hear when we go inside and that's one of the reasons we may get out of there real quick,

But we can work with that.

We can learn to quiet the critical voice.

We can help these layers of history soften and melt and not be what we encounter when we go inside.

We can develop this relationship of warmth and capacity and attunement to these younger parts of ourselves because we are the best one to heal this.

Yeah.

My partner,

As great as they are,

They're not as good just because they're outside.

Right?

That's a hard one to believe.

Yeah.

Well,

I feel a tool coming.

I feel a tool coming.

Share it.

Share it.

And it's a relationship development tool to help you develop that relationship with the adult part of you that's listening to the podcast and one of the parts or yeah one of the parts that gets upset when you are in a fight.

So the tool is think of two things that you can say to yourself in the heat of the moment when you've just gotten disconnected from your from your loved one or your partner and you're triggered and upset.

You're and you're ready to fight.

What what the adult part can say to the upset part.

You write these down and you have them you have them nearby.

You can read them ahead of time so that when in the heat of the moment it might be in your memory or you can just have them someplace where you'll see them so that when you're triggered you see them.

So examples are I see how upset you are.

You say the adult part says to the upset part no wonder you're upset.

Of course you're upset.

Anybody would be upset.

I really get it and you have every right to be angry.

Then you say that you say that first and then see if that part wants to express any more feeling.

And then the the next question could be what do you need?

And you don't always get the answers but just the adult asking those questions is helpful.

I see you're upset and what do you need?

It's an amazing way to remember ourselves and it might take some practice and we might remember the questions after the fight but it's okay we're we're changing the programming.

Yes and I encourage you to write these questions in your own words.

Yeah because when we're upset when history is keeping us company in the fight we really want to take all of this out on the other person.

Right.

There's so much force to do that.

It's very human of us.

It's not effective but it's understandable.

Yeah and I have so many clients who they take it out on themselves and and sometimes the partner is even saying it's your fault like you should have said that a different way or a different time or.

Right true that's a good point.

There's this historical baggage that wants to get expelled somewhere either toward the partner or toward the self.

That's right.

What you're suggesting is let me just go in there and talk to that part so we don't have to send it anywhere.

That's right.

We can just sit with it together and maybe that means taking a break or noticing whoa I'm getting heated up I could have a fight let me go find my questions before I engage.

Right.

If there's a reaction coming we could think of this energy in terms of a reaction.

There's an opportunity to work with the energy in the reaction if we don't act it out with our partner and we might and then we have a chance to not do it again so we're not gonna beat ourselves up if we'd launch a reaction unconsciously.

But we can also think of a reaction as having all this potential in it because it's history coming up to have our attention.

And sometimes we talk about it as reaction juice like there's this fuel in there if I don't act it out it's part of the fuel I can use for my inner growth.

Hmm Wow.

Take that part of my life force back.

So I'm picturing this energetically that when we're mad at the partner we go we were talking last time about horizontal and vertical when I'm mad at the partner I go horizontally or if I'm absorbing the partner's anger and I'm thinking I should change myself then it's horizontal by going in the other direction like toward myself.

But when we're talking about sitting with okay I'm upset and owning that then we're we're creating space in in in that in that vertical plane.

Yeah it seems the opposite of what we've watched people do or what we believe but being able to go inside with myself and see that there's a reaction and to hang out with that for a minute is actually the most effective thing we can do.

And the questions you're sharing are amazing Shara.

It may take a while and I think the post-it notes or a piece of paper are a great idea but even if we can grab a thread of this communication that we're giving today if I can notice I'm having a hard time and go in there for a second and breathe and even feel I don't know what to do right now but I'm aware of myself and I'm having a hard time that is a huge moment of development.

Yeah so I want I want to say as a step one you're deep down vulnerable because everybody is.

Yeah.

It's completely normal to be vulnerable.

Well my partner is too.

And my partner is too.

But we all are in that moment.

So when I was first learning how to do this that was the that was my that was the first line of that's the first thing I had to wrestle with was the premise that I had a right to be upset because because I'm vulnerable.

What we what we say to ourselves is you're being too sensitive or no the partner is just being a jerk but the the truth of the matter is the is the human vulnerability and that that's normal there's nothing wrong with you or your partner for getting upset and then once we know that then we can ask these other questions of we could give you ourselves space for yeah I'm really upset right now and then you can ask what you need but that first thing of yeah this is normal it's really important to give yourself permission.

Yeah and it's normal to have misunderstanding what we were seeing at the beginning we are gonna step on each other's toes.

It's just gonna happen it's like bumper cars.

Yeah.

It's gonna happen it's okay it's not how we want to spend most of our time but I think if we could have that as a takeaway for today that you are wonderful you are here you are learning there's so much good in you you get to love and you're gonna have a moment of disconnect with people you're gonna feel different you're gonna feel confused you're gonna get upset and it's absolutely okay and we're gonna help you be more effective in those moments More to come on this topic and many others I'm so glad we got to do this today.

Yes and I want to thank all of the listeners for engaging with us and with this material.

Have a beautiful day and a beautiful night everybody and be sure to enjoy your closeness with yourself and with everything you love.

Bye for now.

See you next time.