Being Ourselves In Relationships

Hi everybody and welcome to Two Eyes Women Talking.

My name is Shira Khan.

Hi everyone,

This is Diana Zahir.

I'm so happy to be here with you and with Shira.

We've been together for 30 years as friends and students and teachers.

We're so excited to talk about the mystery and the path and this present moment.

So let's get started.

Welcome to episode eight.

Today we are continuing our deep exploration into the teachings of merging,

Individuation,

And being our truest selves in relationship with the people we love.

Before we begin the conversation today,

I want to invite us all to breathe and to relax and thrive in our bodies.

So see if you can allow yourself to do that as I'm saying a few more things before the conversation starts.

See if you can let the breath come in,

Feel your body in the chair,

On the bed,

Connect to the present moment of you.

And I want to say that very grateful you're here to learn about this material.

I want to say that these teachings have probably transformed my life more than any other teachings I've received.

And these are teachings that I offer every day to the people I have the privilege of working with and I watch their lives transform.

So this is so important to me that I can transmit the authenticity and the potential and the power of what can happen when we learn to be ourselves and we share that with others.

This has so many levels and so many layers.

But for now,

What I want to say is that this is building,

This is foundation building.

Just like we have compassion and curiosity with ourselves,

We're focusing on our courage in this series.

The courage to learn something new,

The courage to listen to yourself,

The courage to feel who you are without anybody else's input,

Just you with you.

And we're also building on all the good we have received from our families and our friends and the previous generations.

We're letting go of the things we don't need.

We're letting go of the distortions.

We're letting go of the beliefs.

We're letting go of history and survival however we can that feels comfortable.

So that being real is about right now what's going on in here,

Connecting with the original you,

Connecting with the present moment you,

And it might be private right now.

We don't have to share it,

But we're getting acquainted and we're growing a friendship so we can live our lives from this place.

Shira I think it's really exciting that we have a chance to talk about being ourselves today.

Yeah,

Let's do it.

I think many people don't know what it means to be themselves in relationship and partly or I could say mostly because we weren't taught how to do that.

We don't see many people doing that.

There aren't official trainings to do that the way we can get a driving license or some other kind of education.

I ask that question a lot of myself and of people I work with.

What does it mean to be you right now?

And I think we often don't know.

Even in the most practical way,

In the most relational way,

We don't have to go deeply esoteric into this topic.

But that's also really fun.

But in the practical,

Okay,

Here is this person I love and they're saying this to me or they have a request or maybe they're having a hard time.

Where am I?

What's happening in here?

We leave.

Yeah,

Yeah,

That's the merging,

Right?

We go over to their side of the street and try to make it better or we protect ourselves or we get noisy.

But we do all these things except have that curiosity and compassion for I wonder what's going on for me right now.

Yeah.

I'd like to add in that the relationship we have with ourselves and what's going on inside the body,

Inside the psyche,

Inside the nervous system is quite influential of how we communicate and of what happens in the interactions.

So I'm appreciating how you're emphasizing this because when we skip over that,

We get a little lost from the beginning.

But there's a lot of grounding,

A lot of power,

A lot of relaxation in attending to ourselves and locating ourselves first when we're going to relate to someone.

This is when I'm teaching somebody how to recover from disordered eating,

I use the same principle because you can't really change your outside behaviors until you've changed your constitution inside.

So I'm excited also,

I want to say to the listeners,

I'm excited also of being a part of this teaching today,

This fundamental building block of how to feel better in relationships.

From the start of faith,

Isn't it?

Let's say more about that.

Well,

I think all these changes we can make in our lives,

It requires courage and it requires a willingness to kind of take this leap into something so new.

If I've been raised and the generations before me have been raised to tend to the other first and we're not talking about losing our compassion or our warmth,

But including ourselves in that,

It's really a leap of faith to have a few minutes that way.

We're not suggesting it's a complete system overhaul overnight,

But to bring in this awareness,

To bring in this inclusiveness of me,

It's that big in my opinion.

It's a leap of faith into a completely different paradigm that I can be here in my life.

I can be here in this conversation.

I can be here in these choices about the food I'll put in my body.

It's a very big inner expansion.

Yeah.

I am also wanting,

I'm adding in for me to be in my body.

That's also pretty different.

So I'm noticing,

I want to tell the listeners,

So we're doing the recording today without video and I also have my eyes closed.

In order to be embodying the teaching,

I'm tracking my internal experience like crazy right now.

So listeners,

I invite you to try that,

To close your eyes and build on what was begun in the meditation.

Just stay connected to what arose for you in the meditation.

Stay connected with yourself while we're talking.

So I'm experimenting with being in the conversation,

Being in relation to Diana while I'm primarily in relation to myself.

I'm noticing it takes a lot of concentration because it's not what I'm used to.

I strive for that,

But usually my eyes are open and the video's on,

So I at least have a binary attention.

And I've spoken about that in the meditations.

But right now my attention is really tracking my internal experience while we're having this conversation.

I notice my attention is not going away this time.

I think that somehow serves what we're talking about,

To have that consistent connection with yourself while you're still in relationships.

So I want to thank you,

Diana.

This is not completely normal for me,

But it feels like what we're teaching about.

So thank you.

Can you share how that feels for you to have the closeness with yourself while we're teaching and you and I are talking?

If it adds a dimension for you to have that,

Whatever you want to call it,

Intimacy,

Closeness,

Connection that you get to be here too.

You know what?

I feel more secure.

I am feeling so close with my internal experience.

For me at the moment,

It's showing up as a lot of energy around the center of my body,

Like below my rib cage and above my belly button.

And I also really feel my focus.

So it's a combination of relaxation and focus.

And I think my internal self really likes it.

Sounds fun.

I notice my heart feeling positive right now.

And one other thing about it,

Which is I'm actually getting images of The Wizard of Oz right now.

And you who know my teaching know I use that movie a lot because I think it depicts the human quest for home,

Which is inside.

So I think in this moment,

I'm feeling that internal home and the happiness that I feel,

I think is because I know the home is inside of me.

And there's a security in that.

It's in there and I can always go in there and find it.

I think you're sharing this leap of faith moment I'm talking about.

And we can go into this more,

But psychologically and energetically and at the level of healing,

What you're sharing right now is the absolute opposite of what we needed to do as children to make sure everything was okay in our environment,

Especially if our parents had issues functioning or there was some kind of crisis or trauma in the family.

This would have not been possible as children.

Yeah.

That security.

Yeah.

So it's a very marvelous moment.

Yeah.

Yes.

As you say that,

So for the people who had secure home environments and are listening,

This may not apply to you in the same way,

But for those who didn't have secure home environments,

There was a mandate to leave yourself in order to calm down a chaotic household or a chaotic person or to pursue somebody who was absent.

There can be these different versions of it,

But the mandate that you must leave in order to have connection,

In order to have some form of peace and safety.

And safety.

Yes.

Your only shot at safety is that.

Yeah.

Right.

And there have also been things coming toward you that made it feel unsafe to rest inside yourself.

Yes.

Yeah.

So this is radical.

It's a radical shift in behavioral options and choice.

It's a radical shift in believing we could live this way.

It's a radical paradigm shift.

I want to interrupt our conversation for a moment and do something a little bit different.

I want us to all check in with ourselves right now.

Check your breath.

Check your body.

Feel yourself sitting in the chair,

Lying on the bed.

Maybe you want to stand up for a moment.

Feel your feet on the ground.

Notice your arms and your legs.

If there's any energy or sensation or temperature happening in them.

I want us to all pay a visit to ourselves.

Bring authenticity into the present moment in this personal way.

We can do this anytime.

Such a wonderful habit to create as we go throughout our day.

But especially when we're learning something so big,

So life-changing,

So important.

Come back to you.

Back on you.

And now let's go back to our conversation.

I notice a lot of power and energy when I say the word mandate today.

I'm thinking of my clients and also myself for how crucial it was to abandon the self in order to have a connection with the caregivers outside.

And I feel sad when I think of that.

I think of what my clients went through and how in a certain way it kind of worked,

But it didn't even work fully.

So we're at a turning point.

If you're listening to this,

You're at a turning point where if you had such a mandate,

You can have a new mandate.

You can change your mandate to one of connecting with yourself and not abandoning yourself.

Like an orientation,

A new orientation.

I like the word shaping,

That our habits of positive merging or negative merging or abandoning the self,

They were shaped.

And we can have choice now and play around with different ways of connecting with the self in teeny ways during our day to feel new habits,

New orientations.

And let's see how it feels.

We don't have to agree to anything.

We're experimenting,

Just like you experimented a few minutes ago that,

Wow,

That felt amazing and didn't realize that would happen.

So we have more freedom.

We have more permission.

We have companionship,

Which is essential,

But we get to try new things with ourselves.

That's really abundant.

It's very exciting.

I think the spirit of it being an experiment is so important.

You've always done this for me,

Diana,

And I really hear it coming out on the podcast that it can be safe.

It can be enjoyable.

It can be really nourishing to go inside.

But we get to determine our own pace with that.

And if there is something negative that comes up,

Then we get support for that.

That's what's different.

But you've always been the voice of,

This is really positive to do.

And skepticism is always welcome.

Everybody has to agree with that right now,

But it's kind of the temptation.

We're hoping to tantalize people.

Like,

What if you try that?

Let's see what happens.

You're the only one who knows because you're in that body and I'm in this one.

How exciting to have something new to try.

We do the same things over and over again.

It is so repetitive and boring to have the same day.

Unless it's a fabulous day.

But most people have suffering going on,

Even if they don't want to go in there yet.

So to have repetitive suffering,

It's not enough.

You reminded me that if I'm not consciously making a choice during the day,

I would tend to go to the old ways of relating to myself.

So just to remember,

There is a new way of being with myself that's opening up.

Let me try that.

Let me try that new way throughout the day.

Or even once.

To try something new once in 24 hours is so brave.

So brave.

Because the way we're designed to learn,

If it feels helpful,

If it feels successful,

We'll want to try it again.

And that's how we create a new pattern.

But there is that resistance and that stubbornness in all of us that says,

No,

No,

No,

No,

That's a bad idea.

So no problem.

But can we intrigue you?

Maybe that's a good word.

What if you could feel better right now?

What if it could feel friendlier inside?

And we're going to talk a lot more about the critical voice,

But what if it was quiet inside?

What if you weren't giving yourself a hard time?

What if there was just space?

What if you could watch that other person do whatever they're doing with themselves and it didn't matter?

I mean,

Obviously,

If there's danger,

We would take action and not endure something.

But most of the time,

We're just irritated with people.

And then we get engaged with them in an unconscious way.

What if it didn't matter what they were doing with themselves?

What matters is what's going on in here with me first.

And then I feel my inner space and my clarity and my warmth.

And I look out at them and maybe there are different choices I would make.

So when we do this podcast,

We take the lead from whatever is flowing through us on that day.

So now in my consciousness,

I'm looking out on a vast plane.

It's the color of dust.

I checked if it's the playa from Burning Man,

But it's not.

It has even less.

It's not referential,

Actually.

It's truly a blank slate.

So that's what opened up for me after attending to myself and hearing your words about what if something new could happen.

This is so new,

There's nothing even written on it yet.

Yeah,

That's right.

It's an open field.

In deep wisdom teachings,

They talk about the formlessness or creation or that things just rise and fall from that place of goodness.

That can be what I know inside myself.

That can be my direct experience of reality to hang out there while everybody's going about their business and doing what they do and I'm doing things with me.

And if there's suffering in me,

I can attend to that.

But if there is that open space,

I can also know myself as that and have intimacy with that.

So if my partner's being a jerk or my kid is whining or someone I'm working with is not cooperating,

I can still bring this openness.

Right.

I can go inside and see what's true for me.

That's the shift.

We're very focused on the other.

Of course we are.

It's a relational planet.

We want to make sure we're safe.

That's what we've watched everybody always do.

So the one of the many radical shifts in this approach to being a person is that I'm aware of the other person.

I'm watching what they're doing with themselves,

But I'm also checking on me.

So here's my child.

They're having a hard time.

I'm wanting to make sure they're okay.

They're safe.

It takes two seconds to also check on me.

How am I doing right now?

How is it for me to see this happen for my child?

If I'm not judging anything that shows up in me,

But I'm including it in that warm,

Curious way,

That's very different.

There's a whole constellation of events that could arise from that moment with me.

Maybe there's compassion for me.

Maybe there's more inner space where guidance can arise.

Maybe I feel small and I need a break.

I need to make sure my child's okay and go take care of myself for a minute.

Maybe I feel this tremendous strength.

But there's this inner discovery moment that I can have with me,

Whether it's my partner or my child or my parent or something going on in the world.

I am also there.

I am here.

There's so many connotations to this.

First,

I have this feeling.

I want everybody to have this,

This place where it's so quiet and it's so calm.

I want everybody to have that during the so many ups and downs of life right now.

I wish this for everybody.

And also the psychotherapist in me is saying,

And voila,

Now you have two people in the relationship,

You and the other person.

And that brings so much with it,

So much calmness and safety for you and for the other person.

So it's practical in that it gives me something to do with my attention when I'm uncomfortable.

I can still track the other,

But I'm tracking me.

Maybe I've got my hand on my heart or some way of sharing warmth or appreciation toward me.

I don't have to be all cozy and fairytale,

But just wanting to know how I'm doing.

And you know,

So many levels and layers here,

But at the deepest level,

This is how we can get back to our true nature.

This is how I can drop into that piece that you're talking about,

Or you know,

That famous book,

I am that.

Just dropping into the is-ness that is so facilitated by having a moment of success or presence with another,

Whether we're being parented that way,

Or whether we have a love relationship that way,

Or whether there's collaboration.

It's that alchemy with another where,

You know,

Thinking of religious language,

Like two or more are gathered in his name.

When there's that presence on both sides,

It's almost like this portal can open in us where we drop into that field.

We drop into the quiet.

We drop into that deep knowing,

Which is so complete.

It doesn't require another,

But that's one of the ways we can access that.

So I'm hearing now you're saying if both people drop in,

That something ineffable opens up some more,

Even some more knowing and depth can open up when both people are dropped in.

I think that's a heavenly moment.

That's a miracle moment.

But we're also saying even if one,

Only one drops in,

I don't need the other person to behave for me to do this.

But the fact that they're in the energetic field,

Whether they're present or they're suffering,

And of course we don't want them to suffer,

But it's the way I interact with that human moment that allows me to relax into this portal.

It's not dependent on what they're doing.

It's how I'm processing the moment.

This is so pleasant and it's so vast.

I'm sitting with how do I convey this on a podcast?

How do I,

I hope the listeners,

I want you to have a taste of this really helpful,

Vast,

Quiet.

I think you're embodying it,

Which is so amazing.

I think what you're showing is there aren't any interruptions.

When we're in our merging cycle with people or we're not able to find where am I,

Who am I right now,

What's true for me,

We're kind of coping with all these interruptions and bouncing around like a ping pong ball or waves of the ocean.

But when I feel that original me,

When I connect to myself and tend to myself,

It's almost like I'm interruptible in a way.

What do you mean?

Meaning that I can hang out with presence and see the suffering and care for the suffering and have more capacity to help with the suffering,

But my inner core is just space or love or peace.

Wow.

That sounds like what's happening for you.

It's so hard for the mind to understand this and our minds are so helpful because they want strategies and ideas.

So if we were to give any language that could help our mind have a reference point,

It's the allowing,

It's the being with,

It's the not turning away from whatever I see in front of me or with the other and I care about it,

But I'm not doing anything with myself in response to it and I'm not trying to change the other.

There's an encounter of it where my eyes are very awake and I'm also including myself and what's happening for me as I witness them and all those things together allow for a kind of like an ultimate holding.

There's just love for all of it.

This is what I do with clients,

But it's just happening inside me right now with you.

This is a very powerful teaching.

And we're going to keep working with it in very practical ways so we all have these little tools when we do feel interrupted or when we don't.

So I think one of the main takeaways for today is if I feel interrupted because I'm a human,

I'm going to let myself notice it and I'm going to take care of it and that's not separate or rejecting of how much I care about the other,

But I'm going to allow both.

More to come on this topic and many others.

I'm so glad we got to do this today.

Yes,

And I want to thank all of the listeners for engaging with us and with this material.

Have a beautiful day and a beautiful night everybody and be sure to enjoy your closeness with yourself and with everything you love.

Bye for now.

See you next time.