Being In The Fight

Hi everybody,

And welcome to Two Wise Women Talking.

My name is Shira Khan.

Hi everyone.

This is Diana Zahir.

I'm so happy to be with you and with Shira.

We've been together for 30 years as friends and students and teachers.

We're excited to talk to you about the mystery and the path and this present moment.

So let's get started.

Welcome to episode 11,

Being in the Fight.

Shira and I are ready to share this very potent episode with you.

And we really appreciate you waiting for us because this one has taken a little time and we wanted it to feel complete and powerful.

And we do this podcast,

The way we do this podcast is we invite in teaching and we already have a lot of familiarity with it,

But we also get changed by it and we live with it.

And this one is so alive and so real for everybody.

We wanted to take our time and let it do its magic and change us so we could share this with you.

Yes,

We've been receiving information about this episode all summer.

When we use the word wise in Two Wise Women Talking,

Wisdom comes from gleaning lessons from life.

So in order to be wise women about this subject,

We've been at the School of Life learning and gleaning more information about this subject.

And we're excited to feel ready to share this with you today.

Absolutely.

So Shira,

You're going to lead us in our opening meditation.

But before you do that,

I want to throw out a few keywords that we will go deeper into in the podcast.

But fighting is about having new tools so we can resolve differences in a harmonious and powerful and safe way.

And fighting is about change and being changed.

And fighting is about what's under the fight.

What is in our hearts?

What's in our most vulnerable pockets so we can be seen and heard?

Exactly.

And to add to that,

It's the fight and what we do with it.

It's about our relationship to the vulnerable parts in specific.

How we're receiving or not receiving the vulnerable parts.

What we're concluding about the vulnerable parts and what we're making ourselves or others do based on the vulnerable parts.

So in our meditation today,

Let's start with working with that relationship.

Did you have any other thoughts,

Diana,

Before I start leading the meditation?

I'm excited.

And I would just add in a final way that fighting is about an interaction with another person.

But ultimately,

It's about my relationship with the life force.

So whatever I'm doing with me and the life force has a huge impact on what happens with the other person.

I'm just letting that in,

Thinking about that.

Yeah.

As within,

So without.

Okay.

So,

Wherever you are,

Whether you're sitting or walking or lying down,

Let your attention come inward.

If you can,

Close your eyes,

Do so.

And let your curiosity and your openness to experience,

Let that get turned toward what's happening inside of you.

We do this without judgment.

We do this in a spirit of noticing and receiving.

If you're having any judgmental thoughts,

Let them go to the side so that it's safe to see what's here and make a connection with it.

Allow the breath to come in,

Nourishing your body with oxygen from the inside.

Just feel that breath come all the way into the center of your body.

And as you do the simple act of breathing with your attention turned inward,

And again,

Not on whatever else you have to think about today,

Just here now with yourself,

See what happens as a result of just simply being with your body and letting the breath come in.

See where the sensations start to open up and see how your energy changes and how your thoughts change as well.

So as things become quieter and simpler and safer and also nourished with the oxygen,

Invite in the vulnerable part of yourself to this healthy environment.

And just let the vulnerable part be in your consciousness just as it is.

See if any emotions come with the vulnerable part,

Any feelings,

Any states.

Just let them be here in the holding container of your safe consciousness.

When the vulnerable part meets your consciousness,

There will be a point of contact.

It can feel like a blend or it can feel like an actual meeting or something in between.

See what it is for you when these two parts of yourself meet.

There may be a feeling of friendliness,

Which we've spoken about before in these podcasts.

Just let that happen.

This is a moment of celebration.

For most of us,

The vulnerability didn't have a safe place to go many times in life.

So this is a celebration because it's a safe moment for the vulnerability to be here.

This is where security comes from.

This is your best insurance in a fight of feeling like you're going to be safe.

Because no matter what is happening outside of you,

There's a connection to the part that needs it the most inside of you.

Feel what that connection feels like for you,

What the qualities are.

Feel the effect of the connection on your mind and your heart and your body.

As we get ready to open our eyes,

Let this part be strong in you,

Based on love.

As you think about listening to the podcast or going on with your day or being in a fight with a loved one,

That this is also here as a foundation.

Gently open your eyes to a soft focus.

Let your internal experience be strong in you while your eyes are partly open.

And then allow your eyes to open all the way with this anchor inside yourself.

This an anchor of connection and care between your consciousness and your most vulnerable part.

So now we'll begin our podcast.

Shira,

I want to start the podcast today telling you how much I love this meditation today.

I feel so touched by it and so passionate about wanting to share it with many,

Many people.

I kind of wish we could put it on a radio station right now and stream it out.

Because this vulnerability that you're talking about in the meditation is the very thing that wants our inner friendship.

And it is the hardest thing for us because of childhood patterns and experiences and how we push our vulnerability down to protect it or it comes out and it doesn't know what to do.

So this idea that my growing friendship with myself in general would create a safe space when my vulnerability can rise up and be known by me.

That is just poetic and healing in a way.

It's like a healing balm to be guided into that space.

So thank you so much for sharing that with us today.

It's really my pleasure and I'm so glad it was,

It touched you in that way.

I'm hoping that the listeners feel,

Feel nourished by it.

I notice in hearing you share that I feel very tender in that,

In that spot where the vulnerability lives in my body.

And I feel glad that I'm really hoping that people listening,

That there's more safety for them with this,

Maybe a new level of safety,

Maybe a level of safety that came and went or maybe wasn't even there when they were growing up.

So I'm very,

Very glad we could do this together.

Me too.

It really is at the bottom of everything.

If I can be with my vulnerability and allow it and listen to it and take care of it,

I feel a kind of freedom and contentment and peace.

And that of course is what all of us are working toward in different ways.

But if my vulnerability is not able to connect with me,

We have all kinds of difficulties that often end up in fighting.

Exactly.

So when we don't have the security of knowing that we can be with the vulnerability,

Then we're at the whim of our loved ones to do the right thing in the face of our vulnerability.

And unfortunately,

Our loved ones,

Sometimes they're upset or maybe they're upset long term and aren't able to be there for us in this way that we need.

And then that makes it really difficult for us.

So to have a safe and friendly and loving connection right here,

Right now with this part of ourselves,

It's a relief.

It is a relief.

And it,

I think,

Gives us compassion for the moments when it's not possible.

I want to always bring in that innocence that we all have and that part of us that learned from our environment with all the love and good wishes people had and have for us.

Most of the adults that we learned from didn't know how to be with their own vulnerability.

So we didn't have any modeling of this.

Right.

And in the absence of knowing how to be with the vulnerability,

What humans tend to do is either go over somebody else's boundaries.

Go merge with another person,

Go away from the self,

Make the other person agree with you,

Make the other person hold your feelings,

Make the other person go in lockstep with you.

It's one way that a person would manage the vulnerability and go away from it.

With,

By the way,

This idea that that's going to help.

And then the other side of that pattern is sometimes people make the choice or consciously or unconsciously make the choice to let another merge with them.

And that means take responsibility for somebody else's feelings,

Let somebody else take up all the emotional space,

Put oneself to the side to agree with the other person.

So in a way it's an imposition of the self on the other person or a sublimation of the self in the other person.

This is what.

.

.

Either we're pulling at them or they're pulling at us.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

So we're adding this in so that people can understand what we mean when we use the word merging.

And then depending on how this goes,

A fight might ensue.

So we might get upset that someone's trying to pull us away from ourselves.

We might get upset that the other person isn't falling in line the way we want them to.

And then the feelings rise,

People's hackles rise.

There's usually a lot of energy,

Isn't there?

Right.

You can feel at the beginning of a fight,

It's almost like your body vibrates or we feel is called a volcanic eruption starting to surface and maybe we can stay present with it or it has a life of its own and there's some explosion or some eruption with one or both people.

Yes.

And then the content of the communication is usually something having to do with,

Don't merge with me,

You're smothering me,

You're not listening to me,

I'm not here in your eyes anymore.

Or it could be some version of you're not seeing things my way,

You're not doing things my way,

You're not being how I need you to be.

I notice I have a more rapid heartbeat even just talking about it.

Yeah,

We can really feel that escalation of our energy,

Our heartbeat,

Our nervous system,

Our emotions.

I feel like we go up into our head more.

And I think something we were talking about before and maybe before the podcast is that vulnerability wants companionship.

It feels too alone.

Often in childhood,

We might have felt vulnerable in many situations that were intolerable and we couldn't get what we needed from the adults.

So it's too hard to feel it until we have more experience or maybe we need holding of a teacher or counselor or community.

But when we're by ourselves and especially with our partner,

Because everybody gets triggered in the love zone,

There's this belief,

I need you to be with me in this and I need you to be with me in just the same way.

I don't have the experience of doing this by myself right now.

And so we kind of launch this unconscious program of needing the company for the vulnerability.

Exactly.

Yeah.

It can be.

.

.

We talked about the honeypot earlier.

It can be a shock when you're not merged anymore.

It can be like,

Honey,

Usually we're merged and now what's this?

Come back.

Yeah,

I'm not okay with this.

I want to go back and have all that sameness.

We're not the same right now.

So it might be nice to take a breath if people are feeling how we're kind of connecting to that heating up of,

Ah,

How do I get my need met?

We're different.

You're not the same as me.

I feel vulnerable.

You feel vulnerable.

You don't see me.

I don't see you.

The historical expression of that is this kind of heat and outward motion or inward implosion.

But there's a great discomfort and a great survival energy that shows up to try and take care of the suffering.

Yeah.

It's that fight,

Flight,

Freeze or fawn response.

And yes,

It's an attempt to feel better.

I think that's a really good thing to know about yourself and your partner.

The partner is showing me a raised voice or maybe I am,

But it's because the vulnerability inside is feeling really lonely and the person is trying to feel better.

If you know that about yourself and about your partner,

It'll speed up the resolution of the fight.

So we want to stop the podcast for a moment and go inside.

I want to feel what's happening for us as we're presented with this material about being in the fight,

Where that might be touching us.

How we're feeling invited to change,

How we might be connecting with our vulnerability,

With our innocence,

With our longing for safety.

Amen,

Sister.

That's all I have to say to that.

That was beautiful.

Thank you.

So let's take a breath or two more and we'll come back to the podcast.

Shara I really appreciate all the understanding we've shared today about vulnerability and merging and our innocent unconscious behavior with another person.

But I think I would like us to be really practical right now because the way things have been happening recently in my world is I'm watching a lot of people feel hot and have more fights than usual and really want to know how do I deal with this?

How do I heal after the fight?

What can I do if I'm in the middle of the fight and I wish I could stop this or I feel like I'm heating up and I could get into a fight with you right now but I don't know how to avoid it?

Yeah,

I think that'd be a great thing to talk about.

I'm seeing that too.

Well since we kind of know that if you're merged with somebody and you're angry at the same time that it's going to escalate the fight.

So if it's possible to stop merging,

To go back to your corner and nurture your inner self,

That's great if you can do it.

I think there are times,

So I just want that to be said out loud and then when cooler heads prevail to come back and use I statements and speak about how you're feeling and what happened then basically the content of the fight will still come to pass but not in the form of a fight.

But the deeper inclinations that were there that were leading to a fight,

They have another way of coming out.

But then there are times when it's too late,

It's already happened or it's already begun.

Well maybe it's also good to clarify that we're not saying you should never have a disagreement or a discussion or somehow try to negotiate in a conflict but we're calling a fight an unleashing of a storm where it feels like we're throwing flames at each other or clearly one or both people feel they're in pain or there's harm happening.

So if it's that level of escalation in terms of emotion and energy,

The idea that we can stop the way you're saying individuate or remember to be with ourselves,

It's almost like this new game or goal with my partner,

Whoever can walk away from that,

Whoever can stop that first with a little bit of grace or compassion is a hero in that moment for us.

However we can do it,

Like I need to go to the bathroom,

I'll be right back or I need to go outside or whatever we can do to interrupt this harm in as graceful a manner as possible is a fabulous thing for the relationship.

Even if it still feels messy,

Like it would be better to resolve it but whoever can realize wow we're in harm's way right now,

Let's see if we can shelf this for a minute.

So I want to go back to something you said earlier Diana when you said there's,

We're not saying don't ever have a disagreement.

So as we're talking about the fight you and I were immersing in this and we're,

I'm picturing two fighting people,

I'm picturing fights that I've had in my life and I'm picturing saying stop and as I do this my body's escalating.

I'm in that fight,

Flight or freeze.

I've had so much fighting around me and it's definitely a sore spot for me.

And the way that I dealt with it for years was I just tried to avoid it but that's not good either.

We're not saying to give yourself up for the sake of not fighting.

We're not saying to be a doormat.

It is really important to be able to disagree with your partner and stand up for yourself.

It's just important to learn how to do that without going over that person's boundaries by putting your negative feelings on them,

Blaming them,

Without judging them,

Disparaging them.

And for you to know about yourself if you're trying to express something,

The other person doesn't get to do that to you either just because they disagree with you.

So I want to say that at this point because the part of me that's scared of conflict,

If she doesn't know that disagreements can be had respectfully,

That she has no choice but to avoid conflict.

But that doesn't really work either.

There shouldn't be this either or of it's either fighting or this cold war.

That there should be an alternative where you get to express yourself and be heard.

Right.

Well,

And Shira,

I think what I'm hearing and experiencing in myself when you say that is maybe this episode today is about permission and appreciation and acknowledgement that this happens in our lives.

This does not mean we're bad.

This does not mean we're the same as our parents.

And before we can learn these new ways of discussing and being with the vulnerability and championing it,

We need to be rather honest with ourselves and transparent.

I get into this.

I fight.

Here's how I fight.

Here's how my partner fights.

I lose myself.

I don't like conflict,

But because I'm a human shaped by all these other humans who are shaped by the ones before who didn't know how to be with their vulnerability,

This is what happens.

We have to start there.

So in one of our earlier recordings of episode 11,

I was able to contact the vulnerability,

But there was still something in the air for me about this subject.

And it's one of the things that got resolved as the weeks went on.

So I want to talk about that.

What was missing in my experience of fighting?

So this was both in my childhood and then in my adult relationships.

What was missing was the ability to repair and the commitment to repair.

That dedication to the relationship and that dedication to the communication where you say,

The conversation isn't over until we're reconnected.

And reconnecting can involve being understood and getting to express emotions and getting to be received in what's happening for you,

For example.

This was a missing piece.

So in other words,

I was able to contact my vulnerability,

But that part still felt scared about what would happen on the outside until this piece about repair came in and a certain relaxation that ensued in myself and in the feeling about this subject.

But don't you think most people feel that way,

Shara,

Because we didn't see repair,

So we don't expect it?

Yes.

So that's why I want to bring it in.

And that once that.

.

.

The articulation of it really reassured the vulnerable part of me that this is something that's possible.

And it also retroactively showed me all the times in my life that there had been repair.

Sometimes with another person,

But as you and I have been talking about,

Sometimes the repair is with you and a power greater than yourself,

Or it can get supplied in sources that you don't expect other than with the person that you particularly want the repair with.

So I think you and I were talking about this in terms of the vulnerability,

And I think I said something like,

We are going to be able to repair.

It may not be the way we think.

And if we're lucky enough and we're available enough to learn new tools with the person,

We can probably have a new kind of resolution with them.

But that's not always possible.

Sometimes people don't want to go inside and learn.

Sometimes they're not available physically,

Or they may not be on the planet anymore,

But we can still repair.

That's the part I think that you're bringing into this,

The possibility of that,

The energy of that.

What if that's true?

So I really appreciate you holding the line for that very profound truth about being human and about our universe,

That repair is available no matter what.

And I agree with that in a certain way.

Sometimes when I hear you or another wise person putting out that reminder,

It brings up the part of me that was so hurt by people not repairing.

And in my life,

It was so constant that that was the norm.

But when we spoke about it most recently,

I realized that it is a wound,

But it's also the part of me that's still used to pushing away my vulnerability.

And that in you suggesting that the repair can come from anywhere,

I could hear it on the one hand like,

Well,

That means you might not get it with a person,

And that's a no against what I want and need.

But you're actually saying a yes.

It's saying a yes and really deeply taking care of the part that feels vulnerable by saying,

Yes,

You still can and will get what you need.

And it just may happen in a different way.

So it was a slight nuance of,

You could call it the wound or the part of my mind that got used to pushing away my vulnerability so that I could survive the fighting that was all around me.

But that you're not saying no,

Actually.

So I wanted to bring that out,

And perhaps that might be helpful for some listeners who have woundings similar to mine.

That it's not,

This is what's being presented,

It's not a no.

It's a yes,

Just it may be in a form that sadly,

Sadly,

Sadly wasn't the form that you needed at other times in your life with an individual or a family.

Yeah.

This is so important.

It reminds me of when we talk about how many things are true at the same time.

We're not picking one thing and rejecting the others.

It's true that a lot of us grew up in environments where there was so much fighting and it was scary and we didn't know what to do and we were overwhelmed.

And it's true that we didn't watch people have resolution or land.

So we never really felt fully safe in knowing if another fight would come.

And it's also true,

As we said at the beginning of this podcast,

I'm in relationship with other people,

But the biggest,

Most transformative little science lab relationship I have as a human being is the one inside me.

So it's inside and outside that I'm working.

But the more I work inside,

The more possibility,

The more potential for resolution and harmony and clarity with this other that I care about because I'm different.

I am differently resourced and that doesn't happen overnight.

And that doesn't mean I have to be a master.

It means I'm curious or I'm skeptical about this.

But these deeper truths about the nature of reality,

Whether we feel comfortable about it or not yet,

Is that life loves us.

Life is in relation to us in every single moment.

And life has the qualities of love and harmony and safety.

And if I can start going in there,

I bring a different energy to conflict and to difference.

And the other person has whatever they have going on over there.

It's not even my business yet unless I'm in harm's way.

And then of course,

We don't want to encounter that.

We have to remove ourselves or get help.

But this idea that inside of me,

The universe and I can have this conversation,

This love affair,

This healing zone where I am changed.

I am invited to feel loved.

And I can feel the past and my beliefs and my distortions melt away.

That's what we're designed to do.

We're designed to heal.

We're designed to dissolve.

We're designed to know ourselves as love,

Even when there's a difference.

And that is such a radical shift from what we learned,

What we saw,

Where people didn't have access to that inside themselves.

So we just watched frustration embodied.

We watched wounds fighting with wounds.

And we're not judging any of those people.

They had no access in that moment to what we're talking about.

But we do,

If we want to look and listen and consider that what is happening inside of me is revolutionary.

It's beyond comprehension that in this moment,

Any moment,

Under all the beliefs and all the layers,

I am loved and I am the darling of the universe.

And it's not just a concept.

I can actually feel it.

And that gives me confidence.

That gives me confidence to feel my feelings and to feel my needs and to be able to say to the other person in some non-attacking way,

Here's what's true for me.

Yes,

And that would be an alternative to a fight.

It's the same goal.

It's talking about potentially the same issue,

But in a really different way based on the relationship with yourself.

That can be how I'm in the fight.

Right.

Right.

So,

The way I'm hearing what you're sharing,

So there's this environment of profound love as the universe so loves us,

That we can say yes to and bring to ourselves.

If we want.

If we want to explore that and we don't have to.

So I think where I was speaking earlier about the confusion between hearing this message as,

Okay,

You're not going to get what you want with the partner,

So you have to force yourself to go over here and get it with the universe.

And you have to skip over yourself in order to do that because you always had to skip over it before.

So instead of that,

It's that I am loved.

I am capable of love for myself.

And if I'm triggered,

If I'm in pain,

What love looks like right then is being with the pain and making space for the pain.

Right.

That we're taking care of ourselves.

And if that's part of what we do with ourselves anyway,

There's a relationship.

So I'm checking on myself if I'm happy.

Yay,

I'm happy.

If I'm scared,

How can I bring more safety?

If I'm mad,

What's not okay with me right now?

What do I need?

So this relationship,

It's evolving.

It's a part of what I do with myself every day.

And if I'm feeling upset or if I'm in a fight and I see that I'm not rejecting that I'm again coming to myself and checking on myself.

How am I doing right now?

What's going on right now?

And that warmth that I have with me,

It changes what it's like for me to be in my own skin in a moment of conflict.

I may still have really important things to say.

But there's a difference in my orientation.

It doesn't mean that will always change the dynamic between me and the person.

And that's not why I'm doing it.

I'm doing it because it's sanity and it's reality.

And I love the truth.

And the truth is that love is inside.

But when I come to the other person and I have this softness in me,

With me,

Very often I see this all the time with couples.

If somebody can drop into their own vulnerability and speak from that place,

The other person will often soften and drop into their vulnerability.

And then we have a whole different situation where the needs are still the same and maybe there is a disruption or something happened.

But we're talking from a place of tenderness instead of attack.

Yeah.

It's like saying the vulnerable part,

If it could speak,

Would perhaps say,

I didn't get what I needed before and I'm not getting it now.

And I really need it.

You've got to give me what I need.

You've got to come over and do this.

You've got it.

Oh,

You're the only one who can.

And that we're saying in response,

You're going to get your needs met because I really hear you right now.

And I'm making space for you and I want to hear how you're feeling.

And I want to help you say it in a way where it really captures what's true for you and captures what will help your partner hear you.

And P.

S.

,

Take care of your partner in the process by not attacking.

But it starts with not attacking the self for feeling the way it's feeling.

Right,

Exactly.

We're so hard on ourselves,

Everybody.

We're so hard on ourselves.

And those words are beautiful.

And I think that would be a very effective way to relate to ourselves.

Sometimes we can't even get to the words.

We just need to touch our body.

I feel a vulnerability.

I feel so terrified.

I feel tumbled down into history.

Just putting my hands on my heart,

My hands on my face,

Breathing for a minute,

Looking at nature.

We're letting these old vulnerable split off parts be here right now.

And we're reassuring them.

And sometimes words do that.

Sometimes touch will do that.

The way you were breathing the meditation,

Bringing it down to the lower lobes of the lungs,

That can do that.

So whatever way we can interact with the vulnerability to say,

I'm here with you.

You were so alone when you were little and they were fighting and you were scared.

But I'm with you now.

You're not alone.

We always talk about how loneliness is this epidemic.

It's so internalized.

People don't believe they're going to have company.

So we learn to give the wound company with this warm part of ourselves.

Yeah.

So I think that's beautiful language.

And I hope the listeners can use those words as tools or adjust it to be whatever language you the listener would really relate to and resonate with.

I want to add one other phrase,

One other sentence that was very reassuring to me as somebody who had a terribly unsafe house growing up.

And that is to say to the vulnerable part,

I'm going to make sure that you get a repair.

It may be with the person or it may be with a teacher or friend.

It may be with nature.

I can't say for now exactly where the repair is going to be,

But I'm going to make sure that you get one.

And if I had heard those words from myself,

It would help me feel better.

Like there was hope and optimism and that in the end everything was going to be okay.

That is so beautiful.

And in the end everything will be okay.

That's the truth.

That's why we can feel the power in that,

The healing frequency in that.

It is ultimately true.

So I'm just feeling that frequency right now.

So I'm sitting here and putting that out into the microphone.

It's a feeling of a current that's very calm,

Running horizontally through the center of my body.

It has an aqua,

Like a dusty aqua color,

Very calming,

Muted color.

See folks who are listening,

See what's happening for you.

There may be something stirred up.

Maybe you're feeling the calmness.

Maybe you're feeling love.

Just whatever it is for you,

Then bring that loving attitude toward it.

Inner connection,

Inner safety,

Inner intimacy.

This is what we're learning how to do every day and especially when there's a fight.

And sometimes that intimacy can look like,

Hey,

I really need to say something to this family member and I need to use a firm voice.

It can look like that.

Or it can look tender.

Infinite possibilities.

But I'll only know if I'm hanging out with me.

Yeah.

So one of the lessons from this episode has been for me,

Well,

And it always is actually,

To look for more and more subtle ways that I was rejecting myself and didn't even realize it.

And that was another one of the upshots of this was in hearing the encouragement toward repair that might not be with the person,

As I said earlier,

Hearing that like,

Okay,

You're not going to get your need met,

You have to force yourself to go over here.

But it's not the forcing.

It's the intimacy that you're talking about.

It's the intimacy to get just ready for anything.

We don't know what's going to be there.

But to be with that.

Yeah,

And to consider it's good.

Yes.

To consider there's wonder and mystery and possibility when I learned to visit myself in that way.

More to come on this topic and many others.

I'm so glad we got to do this today.

Yes.

And I want to thank the listeners for engaging with us and with this material.

Have a beautiful day and a beautiful night everybody.

And be sure to enjoy your closeness with yourself and with everything you love.

Bye for now.

See you next time.