Hi everyone,
It's Christina and for those of you listening who know my work on this app,
You know that I create content,
Meditations,
Talks,
And audio courses for love seekers,
So people who are on that journey to love and especially helping them to remove their inner barriers to love and step into the sacred partnership that they desire and deserve.
And I've been thinking for a while that I felt that this topic was so important that I really wanted to deepen it and expand on it by inviting some experts on to have a dialogue with me about all different aspects of the love and life journey so that I could better support the love seekers who are listening.
So I'm really happy to kick off that series with this track,
Which I'm calling the Love Masterclass Series,
And I am starting off with a really wonderful first guest.
I have with me Marnie Batista,
And I'm going to tell you a little bit more about Marnie.
Marnie,
First of all,
Welcome and thank you for joining me.
Thanks for having me.
Yeah,
I'm so happy to have you here.
We have a lot to talk about,
But first I want to introduce you to our listeners here so they get a little more familiar with your work.
So Marnie Batista is an entrepreneur,
Author,
Transformational life design specialist,
Podcast host,
And radical truth seeker.
Her honest,
Relatable,
And down-to-earth teachings draw pearls of wisdom that inspire laughter and insights and also shares radical life-changing stories of triumph and love.
She is on a mission to help women harness the courage to stop letting life live them and start living a life that's beyond their wildest dreams.
And she also has a new book coming out soon called Your Radical Living Challenge,
Seven Questions for a Meaningful Life.
So I'm so excited to talk about all of this with you,
Marnie.
Thanks for being willing.
Absolutely.
I'm so excited.
I just came off a call with like five women working on this,
And we talked a lot about love,
And there's just – it's so within reach when we expand our knowledge and start the work of transformation.
So it's such a blessing to be part of that work with your community.
Oh,
Yeah.
There are some really brave,
Courageous souls on here who have just been putting so much heart and soul into their love journeys,
And I think they really want what a lot of us wanted on our love path,
Which is just guidance,
Because it can feel really solitary if you don't know what steps to take.
So that's kind of where I wanted to start with you,
Marnie,
Because I've been following your work for a few years now,
And I've seen it really change and transform.
So for example,
Like your podcast used to be called The Dating Den.
Now it's called Life Check Yourself.
You used to be the love guru and dating expert,
And now you went from the Dating with Dignity platform to now Institute for Living Courageously.
So I really love when I've seen your work evolve,
It's like you are keeping that focus on love and relationships,
But also expanding beyond it.
It's like they say transcend and include,
Right?
So you're kind of including your past focus on love and relationships,
But also expanding it to creating a more meaningful life design more globally.
So I'd love to hear you just talk about that,
Like how you made that jump in your own teachings,
And especially how you see love and relationships fit into this new process that you're teaching for radical living and life design.
I love this question because they say that you teach what you have to learn.
So whenever I'm doing something with clients,
I always want to make sure that I've done it myself.
Right?
Yes.
I hear you.
Because that would be weird if we didn't.
And so I just actually did this life mapping journey.
And so one of the things that I did,
And I will tell you how this ties in in a second,
Was that one of the things that I did was the step that's number one is you kind of go back and you look at your life and you look over the decades and you map out turning points,
Significant life events,
And challenges,
Right?
From like zero to where you are now.
And I had never really done it like this where I just like mapped it out.
And for those of you who,
If you ever watch,
You can see that I'm actually in my little journal because I like to share from the truth.
But so here's the chapters of my life,
Right?
And you could think about like maybe some of you,
This would be yours.
So zero to three is like only me because it's just me,
Right?
So it was like all about me.
I felt enough.
I felt loved,
Right?
Then three to 10 was,
Oh,
Here I go again.
Yeah.
Right?
Like there was a lot of chaos,
A lot of like just not believing in myself,
My family changing,
My dad changing his profession,
Like a lot of chaos,
Right?
And then 10 to 20,
And this is what I think everyone will probably relate to,
It was called love is a battlefield.
Yeah.
Wow.
Right?
Because between 10 and 20,
It was like trying to be long with friends,
Like being the best friend,
Getting attention from my parents and my brother,
Starting to date,
Not feeling comfortable in my own skin,
Trying to belong in adolescence,
Right?
And over the journey,
Right?
Like then having a family and then getting a divorce,
Right?
And the bottom line is this,
Is that if I look at my life and we look at it at a certain point,
The reason that I started dating with Dignity was because I believed that if I could save women from one day of not believing that they weren't enough,
That they didn't have their dignity intact in dating and all of you are like,
That's real hard because it's crazy out there.
So that was my mission,
Right?
And I did that really successfully for a long time until someone asked me a really important question which is,
What is the soul of your business?
This was after being in business for like 13 years.
I love that question.
Because I really wanted my clients to date from that soul place,
Right?
Like being whole and being really authentic.
And I thought,
Well,
The soul of my business really is living a life beyond your wildest dreams.
And I've been helping my clients do that in the love realm,
But they were staying around because once you love yourself and you start to date,
I mean,
It doesn't happen overnight,
Right?
Like it's a process and you just rinse and repeat over time consistently.
They were sort of like,
Well,
Also,
You know what,
Like I'm in a career where I feel like I'm also not setting boundaries.
I'm also not speaking up for what I want.
I need to heal this relationship with my family.
I don't really know if I want to live here anymore,
Right?
Like it was really creating this whole life from this place of who we are as a whole.
And that moment of like,
Wait,
The soul of my business is creating a life beyond your wildest dreams one area at a time.
I was like,
Ding,
Ding,
Ding,
Ding,
Ding.
This is the journey I've been on because my last chapter from,
I'm 58,
From 50 to 58,
I ended up calling it breaking into my wholeness.
Oh,
I love that.
Yeah,
Because I had a ski accident in 2020 and I broke seven bones in my sacrum,
Which was this impetus for everything that happened in my book.
But I broke into wholeness,
Like breaking everything,
I had to rebuild,
Right?
And so I think that the love thing is really important because one thing is how you do everything.
So the invitation and the work that you're doing is,
Guess what,
Truth is this has to do with your whole life.
Love is just the problem in which you're trying to solve first.
Absolutely.
I really believe that.
I feel like the starting point is what you said at the beginning,
You didn't want women to go another day without feeling like they weren't worthy of the greatest love story of their lives,
Right?
Or having that dating with dignity experience,
Right?
And once you can reclaim your wholeness in that area,
There's really no limits,
Right?
It's just taking that same process,
That same breakthrough,
And then doing it over and over again in other areas of your life.
And you really illustrated how you've done that,
Right?
With the recreating your business,
Recreating your life,
And for me too,
And I think for my listeners,
I think this is important for them to hear and for us to hear what I would have needed to hear because I think I had this illusion that when I found love,
That was going to be it.
That was my growth work,
Have reached this apex,
Right?
And as you know,
There's a lot more growing to do after that.
In your own story of the ski accident,
We talked about this when I was on your podcast,
Like check yourself in a recent episode,
Breakdown is like a prelude to breakthrough.
And it sounds like that was in your latest chapter of your life.
That was what kind of broke things open for you,
What broke you open to this new way of teaching?
Yeah.
Well,
I think if,
And since I just did this whole life mapping day,
I think if I look back at my life,
I always had to have a breakdown to have a breakthrough,
But I'm very coachable,
Right?
Like I'm a person who's like,
Wait,
This isn't working.
I want to fix it like now,
You know,
Because I have a sense of adventure and a sense of creativity around that adventure.
And so if we look at our breakdowns and your breakups as this lens through which you go,
Wait,
This is my soul calling me forward to like grow at the next level.
Then you go like,
Oh,
Thank you.
That guy,
He was just here to teach me this.
The next guy I dated,
He was here to teach me that.
And then you go,
Oh,
I'm breaking myself into wholeness,
Right?
And that's kind of the life journey.
It is.
And I,
Especially if you can see it that way,
You know,
Dating as like these more minor milestones along the way,
Instead of like,
Do I have love or not?
You know,
But like,
What have I learned?
Like what was my breakthrough in that experience?
That's what keeps you going,
Right?
Because you need stamina.
Like you said,
It is a lot of this rinse and repeat,
Right?
So I love that,
That if you can look at everything as like a little mini awakening on your dating path,
Hard to do in the moment.
We're not saying this is easy,
Right?
No.
But I really do believe like that is the growth that I sometimes call this like climbing the dating ladder,
Right?
And you can feel like you're getting closer to what you want,
That your matches are getting more aligned,
That you're feeling better about yourself on your love journey,
But that means that you're getting closer to where you want to go.
So yeah,
So I have a follow-up question about this,
Which is,
You know,
One of the cornerstones of my teachings,
You know,
Here on this platform and elsewhere is that love and your life purpose is often intertwined.
And I know you're really teaching people these days to create a meaningful life in all facets.
So I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.
I know for me,
Like the more I followed my life purpose path in pursuing my writing and,
You know,
Becoming a somatic,
You know,
Counselor and energy healer,
The more I followed that,
The closer I got to love.
And actually,
I met Darren on that path and I tell that story in one of my audio courses on love.
So I would just love to hear your thoughts on that.
Do you see those two things as intertwined as well?
Yeah,
Absolutely.
I met my husband on that personal development path as well.
But I did date online,
So I always say like,
You know,
That's just the practice.
That's the reps that get you warmed up.
Sometimes I think those dates are like throat clearing,
You know,
You're like,
Ahem,
Before you actually get maybe in front of the guy at the Whole Foods or something.
So I think it's really important.
Yeah.
Yeah,
I do.
You know,
One of the things that we were talking about today is this idea that those breakups or those challenges that we've had,
We made choices that created these beliefs about ourself,
Right?
And our strengths.
Like for you,
All of those things that happened to you allowed you to be like an amazing professor,
Right?
An inspirational leader,
You know,
A person who's creating impact abroad,
Right?
Like all these things,
Right?
And so what we were talking about today was that those things our soul was doing for us,
Right?
To get us closer to our purpose.
And because of those things,
We end up tossing aside or suppressing or muting parts of ourself,
Right?
That we didn't need or we didn't use or we didn't have the right space to do it.
And so I believe that when you sort of look at the unlived choices,
The unlived life,
Right?
And you go,
Wait,
Well,
There are these little pieces of gold here that are part of me as a person.
I just didn't get to strengthen those muscles.
I didn't discover them.
And then you go,
Wait a minute.
It's not that I can't or I don't know how or I'm bad at it.
It's that I was in life experiences that built a whole set of muscles.
I was joking.
It's like those guys at the gym that have like the huge shoulders than the tiny little booties because they don't do leg day,
Right?
Right.
And it's like we have these strengths,
Right?
Like the strong upper body and we didn't get to really cultivate a lot of those things.
And so as I was talking to some of my clients today in the realm of dating,
Some of the things that came up that might be helpful for your clients were not feeling like they were good at being playful because they had to be really responsible early and they had to be doers,
Not beers and perform.
And so one of my clients was like,
Well,
It's not that I'm not interesting or I'm not spontaneous or I'm not playful.
I just never really got a chance to practice that or be that.
So what if I am?
Right?
Another client grew up where her mom said,
You know,
You get what you get and you don't get upset.
You know,
You don't get what's in the catalog.
You need socks.
That's what you're going to have.
Yeah.
And so she learned that she just takes the guys that like her.
Okay.
So she was like,
Wait a minute.
What if there's this whole part of me that like can make decisions and is comfortable making choices and can have multiple opportunities and trust myself to make the right decision for me?
And she was like,
If that would be true,
Then dating would be a completely different experience if I build this little nugget inside of me.
And so I share that because there's so much that will drive you toward a more expanded version of who you are in your purpose,
In your work,
In your friendships,
In the way you interact with money and men.
Right?
And so the more whole we are,
The more everything expands and we can be free from the limitations of what we think we can't do because of what our journey has been so far.
Your life in the past is not a predictor of your unlived life.
And I think that is a really important message for love seekers.
And it's one I have to emphasize over and over again because what I tend to hear a lot of is I don't see evidence on the outside that my future is going to be any different.
Right?
And so what we have to remind people is like,
You are the evidence.
Right?
You yourself are the evidence that things are going to be different in the future.
Right?
So that's kind of like a mind.
So one of the parlor tricks of the mind is always trying to map the past onto the future.
So I like how you're teaching this,
Marnie,
Because it seems so much less intimidating if you're just framing it as a set of choices you just haven't made yet.
And so all you need is practice.
Right?
It's not like you have to change this overnight,
But it's just time to start practicing making different choices.
So how would you coach someone like that?
Like the woman who was saying,
I was taught,
You know,
You get what you get and you don't get upset.
But now like if I could really make my own choices,
Dating would be different.
How would you coach her to actually make those different choices in dating?
Right?
Because that's where the rubber hits the road.
Well,
It's really interesting.
Right?
So if you follow the old way of thinking,
Right?
So she's been married twice unsuccessfully.
So she's like,
Why the hell would I want to do this again because it didn't go so well.
And what if I just picked the wrong guy again because now I'm 62 and,
You know,
I end up losing myself again financially,
Emotionally,
Spiritually,
All of those things.
And so,
But intellectually it makes perfect sense,
Right?
Like the part of her that is like guarded and had to overcome that is real.
Sure.
And so what we started talking about were what,
This is your,
You're going to be amused by this.
So I was like,
What can you,
How can you practice having choices?
She said taking a bite and then leaving the rest and ordering something else.
Oh,
I love that.
So I gave her a homework assignment.
She was like,
I need to buy stuff and return it.
She's like,
I've never once bought something and even though I know I don't like it,
I never return it even if it doesn't fit right.
And I was like,
Girl,
You're going to go on rent the runway and you are literally going to rent like three outfits and you're going to wear them twice and then you're going to return them.
She's like,
Oh my God,
That means I could,
I could try on something that I would never buy,
Which apply that to dating.
Of course.
Go on a date with someone that you would never imagine like choosing because maybe he's a little more nerdy than normal or maybe he didn't,
Doesn't have like a four year degree,
But he's successful in other ways or,
But because you could try it on and you don't have to buy.
And if you go on a date with someone,
Doesn't mean you like owe them anything.
You don't have to feel bad if you don't pick them because they're grown ass men,
Right?
So that's how we're starting to like,
It's a,
It's a muscle of like,
I can have a bite and then I can leave the rest and order something else.
It's like an all inclusive resort.
This is,
This is great.
It's such a low stakes way to practice,
You know,
But it's,
But it is like that's when,
And then I feel like every time you do that is to really let that anchor,
You know,
Really savor that experience and like really ask yourself,
Okay,
How does that feel to own a choice,
Right?
To actually make a choice and decide that I want something different,
Right?
And trade it in.
And I think that's really freeing if we can bring that into dating.
Like I often tell people to look at it like a dating lab.
I call it the dating lab or,
You know,
It's just like,
It's just an experiment.
And I know when I was getting closer to finding love,
Like the more open I got,
You know,
About the things that you were talking about,
Not so much about the core values like that.
I feel like we need to really be true to that,
What we want,
You know,
In a partner partnership.
But yeah,
Things like for your degree,
Right,
Or like height or age or geography,
Like these are the ways that we can open,
Which I,
You know,
I call like this,
These are like the details we need to really surrender to the universe,
You know,
While also,
You know,
Empowering ourselves to choose what works for us.
So I really,
I love this,
I can,
As you were talking,
I just imagine like all these sort of bars being like,
You know,
Cleared away from people who tend to like put bars around the dating experience.
I mean,
I know I did that a lot too.
Like I kind of in my mind built it up to be this thing that was really hard.
And then when I,
You know,
Really owned my worthiness and found a process that worked for me,
Then I could go into it as more of an experiment with a very clear vision of what I want.
So,
Okay.
So I have another question for you,
Which is about where I was 10 years ago,
Because I was,
You know,
Kind of reading,
I did pre-order your book today.
It looks really great.
Yeah.
I'm so excited to hear more about this radical living life design process.
But I feel like 10 years ago,
Marni,
I was in a place where I was like your ideal,
You know,
Listener or reader because 10 years ago I was at my university job and I did not want to do that anymore.
I had,
I didn't really have a clear vision of what was next,
But I knew it was going to be something spiritual,
Something involving like meditation or healing or mindfulness.
So I knew I wanted to make a change,
But I didn't know how.
That was a very secure job too,
As you know,
Tenure and pension,
Everything.
Yeah.
Exactly.
The golden handcuffs,
As they say.
I also wanted love,
You know,
And I was nearing 40 and I knew I wanted a family and I wanted to have kids.
And these all felt like really big changes,
You know,
And I kind of,
It kind of felt overwhelming to think that,
Wow,
Could I really make all of these things change and happen,
You know,
In the next few years?
But they all felt important.
And I know one of the things you want to teach people is like how to make these changes without blowing up your life,
You know,
Without going into overwhelm.
So,
You know,
I was kind of thinking like,
I think I did it like the wrong way.
Like I will say like maybe not the wrong way because there's no right or wrong,
But like I definitely did it the hard way because like I had a lot of like rumbles,
Martha Beck calls that a rumble.
Like when life gives you a rumble and then you have to like recourse correct to get back in alignment.
So I had a lot of those,
You know,
When I was making all those changes,
I did eventually make all those changes,
But it was very hard.
So like what advice would you have given me 10 years ago?
Because I'm sure there's listeners here who want to make changes in both areas,
In career and in love and relationships.
Yeah,
I think the number one thing is,
Is that there is a structure to do this that you don't have to blow up your life and that you don't have to run off to Bali,
You know,
And find yourself or Thelma and Louise and drive you to the cliff,
You know?
It's funny because I did go to Bali.
Yeah,
Right?
Of course you did.
I did.
So,
And I think,
I think those seriously,
Like the stakes are so high,
Right?
Like,
You know,
You don't just lightly go get a PhD and become a professor.
You don't lightly do all the work that it takes to become a tenured professor.
Sure.
So for those of you that are like climbing the ladder or you,
You know,
Went to medical school or you are a CFO or whatever you work really hard to do,
I just want to first give you some like self-compassion,
Like it,
Don't think people get told.
I have kids that are in their mid to late 20s and even though I've told them like,
You may not be doing this one thing for the rest of your life,
They can't imagine anything else.
I mean,
Like,
That's just what I'm going to do and this,
And you know,
So when you're like,
Oh crap,
I worked really hard.
This was serving me in a certain point in my life and now it's not feeling fulfilling or it's not matched.
That is,
That is how life evolves if,
If you listen.
So I just want to say like,
You didn't fail,
You didn't F up,
You didn't like,
Oh my God,
Why did,
You know,
Why did I make this decision?
Give yourself some self-compassion.
The second thing is that,
And I talk about this in the book,
But the process is that I use for,
For creating a life you love on your terms is modeled on a lot of different things.
But the primary backbone or framework is the design thinking model that was created at Stanford University that is like the mainstay of product development.
So if you go into any big consulting company or you talk to someone who's like an MBA or who works in corporate and they're doing new product development,
This model is what they use.
And so when I looked at this model and there's some books that are based on it,
I thought,
Well,
The first phase of product design is empathy,
The empathy phase.
And empathy phase is you have to know everything about the user.
And I think what happens,
So this is a great place to start,
Is to think,
Hmm,
Who am I?
And you are going to fall into the trap of thinking who you are is the version of you that designed the life you have today.
Hmm.
Yeah.
Makes sense.
Right.
So I was talking to someone on my podcast and we were talking about this and he was like,
Well,
So in Indian culture,
You're either a doctor or a lawyer or engineer.
You know,
Like that was what everyone did.
I didn't decide that.
I didn't want to do it.
So I decided to be a rebel.
So then I just went off the rails and that was my identity of the like,
You can't tell me what to do.
And I,
So then I did this and then I did that.
And so everything that he did was created from this place of like,
You can't tell me what to do.
Right.
So when we look at the empathy phase,
One of the first things you have to do is you have to discover the rules of the world in which you designed your life so you can start to dismantle them and really have a blank slate and get to know who am I today.
And there can be grief in letting go of the identity that no longer serves you.
And I think when people get into transitions,
It's really hard because you're constantly comparing it to what it was before when you're single and then you're married.
Believe it or not,
There's,
And you know this because you're in a long-term relationship,
You're like,
Wait a minute,
When I was single,
I could do whatever I wanted with my money.
Wait,
When I was single,
I could,
I don't have to put up with this stuff,
Right?
When you have kids,
People are like,
Oh my God,
What have I done?
You love your kid,
But you're like,
Now I'm not in freedom like I was or whatever.
My husband and I now argue and we used to never argue before we had kids,
Right?
Yeah.
So I think we have to grieve the time that we are no more and be like,
Okay.
So I would have said to Christina then,
You worked really hard and it's okay,
But let's look at like,
Why did you become a professor?
What was the core motivations?
What were those things in childhood or those significant moments that impacted your decision?
I talked to someone who was in academia and she was like,
I was 10 years old and I saw my mom in the kitchen hiding money from my dad because she had no financial independence and I made a decision then.
I'm not going to be like my mom.
I'm going to be a teacher like my dad.
I'm going to get into academia.
I'm going to get a job for life so that I never have to worry,
Right?
So I would have said,
Where is it coming from?
Let's do the inner work and heal and then do the fun part of figuring out who am I now?
What really blows my hair back?
What do I love?
And then move forward from that space,
But following that design thinking model because they don't build an iPhone 16 one time.
There's a million versions before they get to the last one.
And so we get to have the buffet.
We get to try things on.
We get to experiment.
And that's how we start having fun in our life without having to blow it up.
I love it.
I love it.
And that example you just gave of that woman who also was on the academic path,
It sounds like one of the things I talk about in my work is like the subconscious payoff.
What is the subconscious payoff we're getting?
And for her,
It was like security,
Like the comfort zone.
And so that can be the hardest part is like looking at,
Okay,
What is the payoff?
Because obviously we don't make choices in our life unless we're getting something from them.
And then if we are going to make a change,
Then what's the bigger payoff we're going to get?
Because that subconscious payoff is no longer enough.
So what's the bigger payoff?
It's going to be expansion.
It's going to be growth.
And that's not always a smooth ride,
But I think you get to the point where you just can't – at least people like – I'm going to say the people who are in your community who listen to your podcast,
Who are on this app,
Who listen to the content here,
We are like soul growth kind of people.
We are seekers.
We often get to the point where it's like we just can't do it anymore.
It's like we hit this point of like enoughness,
And I feel like that was what was going on with academia when I was ready to make the leap.
And also like with dating,
It wasn't just that I was getting close to 40 and I still wanted to have a kid and that made me like get really intentional and change how I was dating,
But also like I hit this place where like I just don't want to – I don't want to do this anymore.
Like I just don't – I need to make changes in order to like have a love life that actually fulfills me instead of all these like stops and starts.
Do you know that poem by David White,
The True Love?
No.
Oh,
I love that poem.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You can listen to it online.
But there's this moment where he says like – he's having this metaphor of like you're on this boat and like you're reaching to someone who's like walking across the water towards you and you want to step out of the boat and move towards them and it's like – and if you wanted to drown,
You could.
If you wanted to drown,
You could,
But you don't because at this point,
You're sick of drowning and you want to live and you want to love and you want to move towards – that person coming towards you.
So I think you get to this point where like you're just sick of drowning or you're sick of not moving forward and like that's the point that the change has to happen.
Yeah.
And I think that knowing that there's a way to do it and a framework that will spiritually support you so that along the way,
You feel like you're enjoying the journey because I think the thing that the trap people fall in in our society is that when I do this,
Then I'll be happy.
Right.
Right.
When I make this amount of money,
When I get this level of my job,
When I meet this guy,
You know.
And it's funny.
We watch our clients,
You know,
They're like,
If I could just get a boyfriend.
And then the minute they have a boyfriend,
They're like,
Well,
Where is this going?
Yeah.
We're like,
We need to get engaged.
And then you're like planning the wedding and then you're in the wedding and you're like,
Well,
You know,
When are we going to have kids or when are you going to retire?
When am I?
And so we don't savor the journey along the way.
My whole philosophy is like the journey is your soul's expression.
So how can we create a life where we have these spiritual principles,
These questions that allow us to find meaning and fulfillment in the journey itself and have fun in the process of creating?
Yeah.
I love that.
So let's talk more about that framework or these seven spiritual questions that you're recommending that people ask themselves,
Like maybe you could tell us a little more about that.
And then I know you said there may be like an exercise that we could do together.
So yeah.
Yeah.
Totally.
What is the framework?
Yeah.
So the framework comes from these ancient Old Testament texts.
And the story goes that at the Gates of Heaven,
There's always a Gates of Heaven story,
Right?
At the Gates of Heaven,
You are asked these seven questions regarding,
Did you lead a meaningful life?
And when my dad was dying in 2019,
He was laying there and he's up in heaven going,
Oh man,
You're telling the story again?
I'm like,
Yeah,
I am.
Because it was such a powerful gift because there he was,
You know,
In his final 24 hours of life,
Like mumbling about credit cards and some work stuff.
And I remember like I was grieving and I was sad.
And this little part of my brain,
Christina,
That was like,
Wait,
Is that what it comes down to?
Because I'm kind of doing this now.
Do I just do this for like all of eternity until I literally stop breathing?
Wow.
And I thought,
And then I heard these seven questions and then my brain was like,
Wait,
Did my dad live a meaningful life?
Then I was like,
Wait,
Wait,
Wait,
No.
Do I?
Wait,
Am I?
And I realized that I had built my foundation on the very American traditional metrics of success,
Which are go to a good school,
Do well,
Get a good job,
Make money,
Find a partner,
Have children,
Live in a house,
You know,
La,
La,
La,
La,
La,
Right?
It's so boring.
Not boring because if you have it,
It's great.
What I'm saying is that it's manufactured possibly not by you and lots of people.
And I was talking to two people recently in their mid-20s who were like,
I feel the pressure of the dream.
And I was like,
Oh,
God,
It's starting earlier and earlier.
And so these seven questions help you reorient to what really matters based on not only these seven spiritual questions because they come from this ancient text,
But also if you talk to people who are happy and who are successful and live meaningful lives,
These are the things they would say helped because,
You know,
A lot of rich people that are married,
That are skinny,
That look great,
That are pretty and happy.
Oh,
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love that.
So what are some of the questions?
So yeah,
And then what's like a practical way we can start using them today or living from that framework?
So there's seven.
And if I were to give you the whole list,
It's really boring.
So I like to start with some highlights.
So the first question I think that I want to talk about is really,
Really important.
In the way the questions were first laid out in the text,
This was the number one question.
So I'm giving you the number one.
It originally was,
Were you honest with money?
And you would think that's weird because that was a long ass time ago.
And they're like,
And the reason behind it was that they believe that if you said you were honest about money,
Then you would be honest about everything.
Oh,
Got it.
Because,
You know,
Your money kind of hold tight,
Right?
And so I universalize this question.
And I think that generally,
And we're talking to everyone on this app,
I'm going to assume you are not like a chronic liar.
You don't steal.
You probably don't kill people.
We're not talking 10 Commandment vibes.
We're talking like a deeper level,
Right?
And so I think people generally are honest,
Generally.
But where they're not honest is with themselves.
Oh,
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's true.
And we cope,
Rationalize,
Tolerate,
Settle for a lot.
Yes.
And we avoid all of those little truths that somewhere inside of us,
If you go back,
I mean,
How many women have you talked to and they're like,
When I walked down the aisle,
I knew,
Right?
Or I knew when I did it,
You know.
So we want to learn how to be radically honest.
And so the exercise that I would give people is to start to have a,
And this is right up your alley,
To start to have a somatic felt sense of what feels right and good.
Yes.
Right?
And think about,
So start just taking a little survey of that dinner that you went to,
That you really didn't want to go to because there's a person there and you were like,
But you said yes,
Because you don't want to not get invited next time,
Right?
Or the guy that maybe you didn't give a chance to because you decided he was rude,
But actually,
Because I hear this all the time,
Actually,
Maybe you like kind of blew him off for a couple of days and then he called you out,
Was like,
I don't know,
And you're like,
He's so rude,
Right?
So think about the felt sense of what feels like you're being honest with yourself and what doesn't.
And start to develop a practice,
Right?
In listening to all of these meditations and all the things you have on this platform with Christina about like,
Whoa,
Am I really following truth or am I people pleasing,
Not having boundaries,
Trying to make other people happy,
Putting other people's needs before mine?
Yeah.
The list is long.
Yeah.
Because this is one question that if you make this slight adjustment,
Like a lot of things feel better and it is one of the most powerful ways to get a big,
I'll call it bang for your buck.
Yeah.
So it's a felt sense of like,
Whoa,
This is true.
I coach people to trust that because I firmly believe in that.
And it's taken years to understand that the somatic signals my body is giving me are actually accurate and what I should follow because like,
You know,
Growing up and especially being academic,
Well,
I don't know,
We're just so taught to live from our heads,
Right?
The brain chemistry.
And so,
For example,
I was working with someone the other day and she was saying,
And I was just saying,
Well,
How do you drop down below that mind chatter,
That brain chemistry?
She said,
Well,
That's a part of me too,
Right?
And so how do you coach people to trust the signals that their body is giving them more so than sort of the brain chatter of like,
This is the right thing to do.
Should I do this?
What should I do?
I know you kind of talk about this in your book,
Right?
All the shoulds and the shoulds.
All the shoulds.
Yeah.
Right?
Yeah.
So I call this the umbrella test.
I did not make it up.
I heard it the first time from a guy named Bruce Schneider.
And the umbrella.
.
.
So we got to start with low stakes.
It's like the Rent the Runway dress,
Right?
Right.
Right.
So we want to start having these things of like,
I saw my umbrella.
What?
I looked at.
.
.
I just had this thing.
I felt something.
I should.
.
.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I just feel like I should bring my umbrella.
Right?
Right.
And you're like,
Whoa,
It rained.
I listened.
Right?
Or you're at a restaurant.
This is really hard.
I think this is one of the hardest things.
And you're like,
What do I want?
And you're like,
I don't know.
Should I have fish?
Everyone else is having a salad.
I shouldn't have a steak.
And you just go,
Let me just trust.
What do I really want on this menu?
Right?
And then you get the like chicken pot pie and everyone else with their little salad is like,
Damn,
I should have got the pot pie.
And you're like,
Yeah,
It felt right.
I just like listened.
You know?
And so low stakes?
At the market,
Should I buy this brand?
Just be like.
.
.
It's like Marie.
.
.
In my book,
I say like Marie Kondo that shit,
Right?
Like.
.
.
Yes.
You know?
What do you.
.
.
You know,
Like this brand of pasta sauce or this one?
Right?
Just start low stakes.
Start paying attention because it doesn't matter which pasta sauce you have.
It doesn't matter if the pot pie wasn't the best thing.
It just really is like having the psychological safety for your brain to start playing with the concept of trust in things that it knows are really low stakes and it doesn't really matter.
I'm playing fantasy football for the first time.
Wow.
And I'm literally.
.
.
I'm like.
.
.
My brain wants to look at the data.
Yes.
And I'm like,
I don't know.
I have a feeling about this guy.
I don't know.
Should I play him?
And so today,
I just posted on Facebook.
I like made a big move because intuitively,
I feel like this guy's gonna fail this week even though this could be the week that he does best ever of the whole season.
So low stakes.
No money at stake.
I'm just feeling for it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And taking the stakes out of it.
I really love that.
So how could we apply this to dating then?
Like how can people like really get into their bodies about the dating experience?
So both the moment that they're on the date and then the moment after when they walk away from the date,
Right?
Because I like to coach people like you don't have to think about,
Is this my forever person?
Is this my sacred partner?
But just do I want to see them again,
Right?
Do I want to see this person again?
So like how do you remind people to get in their body?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because people are like,
Is it my inner critic or am I actually not a match?
Right.
Right.
Right.
Right.
Right.
And so your inner critic is typically judgmental and fear-based,
Right?
And your – I call it your central self,
Your soul self,
Usually has that resonant feeling,
Right?
So when I have had clients who are like,
Oh,
Are you going to make me go out with him again?
And I'm like,
Tell me why you don't want to.
Yes.
And they tell me and so they're like,
I don't know.
This is a true story.
I don't know.
His shoes were like really bad and I don't know,
Like he's thinking about leaving his job.
Like,
I don't know.
I don't want to deal with that,
Right?
And I'm like,
Okay,
So how does that feel when you're telling me this story?
And almost 98% of the time they're like,
These are all excuses,
Aren't they?
I could just tell.
I am making some crap up.
Yeah.
And I'm like,
Okay,
So what are you really afraid of?
Yeah.
I rule people out before I rule them in.
Oh,
Yeah.
There's actually nothing wrong with him and he was really nice and it's really weird to be treated really well.
And honestly,
Like I could buy him new shoes 20 years from now.
Like whatever.
I can train him in the shoe area.
Yeah.
And so that client to this day,
She's married to that guy and she's like,
Oh,
Damn.
Thank goodness I spoke it out loud.
Because when you speak it out loud,
And I'm sure you have this with your clients,
And you know,
You're like,
Wow,
I'm making up a story about,
You know,
Because every time someone goes,
Honestly.
But if someone is like,
Like I had a client the other day who was like,
We literally have nothing in common.
He's not active.
He hates travel.
He's a homebody.
She like went through her core values.
Yeah.
Like you were talking about earlier.
Yeah.
She's like,
We're just – and we had a really nice time.
There's literally nothing wrong with the date.
He was polite.
Yeah.
He was nice.
She's like,
We're just not a match.
And she's like,
Are you going to make me go out with him again?
And I'm like,
No.
You sound very confident.
Right.
Right.
You actually enjoyed yourself.
You're good.
So I want people to start to have their own sense of that somatic because – That inner confidence.
Yeah.
You know,
And also there's the flags that you ignore and you look back on your life.
You kind of – you're like,
Oh,
But he's so cute or we have chemistry.
I never have chemistry with anyone.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Or sometimes like what I hear a lot is like,
Well,
This person is better than the other people that have come – the last,
You know,
10 people who have come along,
Right?
So if you're kind of settling for the better than the other people,
Right,
It's still not necessarily what you want.
But,
You know,
This – when you were talking about that,
It reminds me of early on when I met Darren and I had – I was at this really sweet spot in dating that I like to coach people to get to where there's like a number of like promising suitors,
You know,
That feel really good,
Like good prospects,
Good contenders.
And Darren was like in the – he was a front runner.
We had this phone call once and I remember it's like I wasn't sure about some of the things he said.
And I was like,
What did he mean by that?
I could tell he was getting my head.
And the next day I went down to meditate.
It was actually at my healer school for like a weekend intensive.
And I went down early to the meditation room to meditate and I just like dropped into my heart and I was like,
All right,
I know what my head is saying.
Like,
What does my heart think about Darren?
And it was like this firework explosion and I was like,
Where is this coming from?
I don't even know this guy.
I barely know him,
Right?
But it was just something my soul and my heart was telling me and I had to like bring that into the body to actually find out what the message was.
Yeah.
If you're like avoiding the feeling,
That's a good clue that you're avoiding the feeling and there's something that you're not being honest with yourself about.
And I'm sure you know this and experience it.
Sometimes our clients like when it's someone who's nice or someone who treats you well,
It feels really weird.
It does.
You're like,
There must be something wrong with him or I'm not used to being treated well or I like bad boys or whatever your story is.
So practice low stakes,
Right?
And really practice radical honesty and express it.
Talk it over with someone like Christina,
Right?
And like really articulate that.
And usually your body will start to give you some signs.
When you're thinking,
When people – I'm like,
How did you feel on the date?
And they look up.
I'm like,
Oh,
You're thinking.
You're not feeling.
Yes.
Right.
God does not have the answer.
There's no sign.
It's a feeling question,
Right?
Yeah.
Not a thinking question.
Yeah.
I love that,
Marnie.
So yeah,
Just to recap.
So it's like being very honest with yourself and becoming comfortable with being uncomfortable,
You know,
And being honest about why you're going to rule someone out or not.
And also like bringing it back into the body and practicing in low stake situations,
Right?
And that – it sounds like that takes the pressure off of like I have to like redesign everything overnight,
My dating path,
My relationship world,
My career.
It's like finding out what feels good,
Asking yourself those questions,
Right?
Starting with empathy and being honest with yourself and then just practice,
Right?
Just building that muscle with these,
You know,
Low stake situations.
So I love that.
Pick one thing.
Pick one thing.
Yeah.
One major shift.
One major shift.
If you just start being honest,
Like think of all the things that fall out from that,
Right?
Like you stop people pleasing.
You start saying yes to things and saying no to things that you're afraid of.
You start asking for help.
You start taking responsibility.
I give you that question of the seven because it's a treasure trove.
They're all connected.
But that one is like a great beginner question because at the end of your life,
Right,
You want to be like,
Wow,
Was I honest with myself?
Yeah.
Did I do all the things that I wanted to do?
Did I not put up with,
Tolerate,
Allow,
Right?
So think about it that way.
Like at the end,
Reverse engineer.
Yes.
You want to be honest with yourself.
I love that.
And so I'm going to issue a challenge to anyone listening.
So listen,
Like take to heart what Marni just said about ways that we can practice this in a very low stake way,
Making choices that are honest with yourself,
Allowing yourself to return something,
Right,
Or send something back or make like an unusual choice,
You know,
When you're at a restaurant or at a store and then like,
You know,
Bring that into your dating world.
Just do it as an experiment and then just see how it felt.
And then you can leave a review or leave a reflection and just talk about how that experiment went for you because I'd love to hear about it and I can – that way I can share that with you,
Marni,
All these little experiments that are going to be happening using your framework.
So thank you so much.
This was such an eye-opening conversation and I just can feel it's going to be beneficial to,
You know,
Love seekers and anyone who is like looking to make a big radical change in their lives.
So thank you for making that process,
That idea so much more approachable and accessible to all of us.
I think that's really your gift in the way that you distill that down into small bites and like tiny little steps one at a time.
So thank you again for being here,
Marni,
And being in this first Love Masterclass that I'm launching and releasing.
And thanks to all of you for listening and I'm really proud of you,
All your growth and learning and we'll see you on our next connection here.
Alright.
Take good care.
Bye.
Bye.
