Interview With Poet & Musical Therapist Bob Shea

Hello and welcome to the Running Anthropologist podcast.

I'm your host Mark Lane Holbert coming to you from our home studios live today with Bob Shea in studio.

We're really excited to have Bob Shea with us.

He is a noted writer and poet as well as an adventurer.

He's taken his professional life into musical healing with music therapy,

Working with Alzheimer's patients and seniors,

And he's also a registered nurse as well as having experience in emergency room school nursing and has run the gamut.

He's only recently taken on running as a way to explore this earth and he's going to be talking with us today about running as a spiritual journey,

Both outward journey and inward.

To that end,

We'll get started right away with Bob Shea.

Bob,

Welcome.

Hi Mark.

Thanks for being here with us today again.

Glad to be here.

You're actually our first in-studio guest.

Hey,

What a place you got here brother.

Excellent.

Coming from Tampa,

Florida,

Bob made the trip over to meet with us and talk with us today.

We're so grateful for that.

Bob has been a friend of mine in my journey and we've both had the experience of being pilgrims at various points in our lives,

Particularly doing the pilgrimage on the Camino de Santiago.

Most people travel by foot,

Running,

Walking,

Any way that they can to get from one place to another.

Bob has actually done the entire journey from France,

From the Pyrenees,

All the way to the coast of Spain,

To the end of the earth as they call it,

The Finisterre.

We'll give him a chance to talk about that especially and then also about one of his recent running adventures to Iceland.

Iceland is big right now and is really deserving of all that it gets because it's such a wonderful place for runners and for explorers.

We'll give him a chance to talk about that but also to share some of his writing.

Bob,

Just to start us off,

Maybe you could tell us about how you got started running and why.

What got you started?

Well,

I was about.

.

.

I think I was about 57 years old,

So a couple of years ago,

Mark.

This man I knew and respected very much.

I knew that person was a runner and that person was you.

You just went on a couple.

.

.

You told me how to do it.

Start with a walk,

Start with a walk,

Then run,

Then walk,

Run,

Then walk,

Run.

To me,

It was like,

Okay,

So I walked a minute,

Ran a half a minute,

Walked a minute,

Ran a half a minute.

The next week,

I'm doing the same thing every day.

Then two weeks later,

I walked and then I ran and it was like Forrest Gump.

I didn't stop.

I couldn't stop.

I had no choice.

Wow,

That's really humbling that I didn't realize I had such a big impact on starting your running.

I think Bob has had a lot of great influences in doing his running and he knows a lot of great people in Southwest Florida.

What would you say gets you up in the morning,

Motivates you to go running?

Now you're into 11 miles,

14 miles and just going full speed ahead.

What keeps you going?

I think it may be something only a runner can understand and each one is individual,

Mark.

What gets us out there on that road?

What gets us out there in that trail?

It's the whole gestalt.

It's being in my brain.

It's thinking the beautiful thoughts.

It's being in the rain or wherever I am on ice or whatever I'm running on.

That impact of the environment,

It resonates.

I'm like this breathing thing that my soul breathes with the outside.

I have no other way to explain it.

That's really a great way to put it actually.

Wherever you are,

Whether you're back in the Northeast or you're abroad,

Whatever community you're in,

You're really breathing that air with those people.

You're seeing the sights that those people see every day and that you're more engaged than you otherwise would be.

It's an indelible mark on me,

On my psyche,

Like running through Madrid.

I can run on a beach in Naples,

Florida.

When I look at my work,

On my app,

It's one straight line.

When I look at the Madrid run,

It's like just everywhere,

All sorts of angles and turning.

Unfortunately,

It doesn't show the 3D elevation.

I'd like to see that though.

That's neat.

That's a good point too.

When you're running someplace new,

You just take off and look for where best to run and how best you can connect with that place.

Sometimes advice from others plays a part in that.

I think some of what you have to share today with us about the Camino and about Iceland will help people,

Give them an idea of what it's actually like.

Your writing is really,

To me,

It's crystal clear.

It shapes the way I see a place,

Particularly when you tell the combination of what's around you with what you're feeling inside.

That's accompanied with pictures,

Which by the way,

As Bob,

I believe,

Is going to share with us some of his poetry today.

We'll have links to all the photos along with those places that he talks about on our Facebook page and on our website if you would like to check them out and see them as you listen to the podcast.

I guess my first question would be so that others can get a sense of it,

What is it like for you being a pilgrim or maybe the impression that you got from others on the Camino traveling by foot such a long distance?

At any point,

You're welcome to share.

I know you have a few writings,

Some poetry and some stream of consciousness writing that you'd like to share at some point.

Any time that you'd like to share those as well.

Okay.

Well,

To answer your question,

I believe I was.

.

.

My first pilgrimage was in Brooklyn,

New York when I was born.

I never realized that I have been a pilgrim all of my life and that we all are pilgrims.

We are all walking this earth.

Most of us are trying to do the best we can on a daily basis,

Maybe even step by step.

I went on the Camino because,

Oh wait,

You suggested I go on the Camino,

Right?

Oh,

Come on.

It's not all me,

But thank you.

Thank you for that.

You walked it and so I watched what you did.

I do have to say that that's a common question.

This is a common question.

Why do you do that?

Why do you go on these pilgrim?

Because last year I went from Portugal north and then this past September I went from,

As you said,

France.

I don't know why I went.

Some people go to lose things.

Some people go to gain peace of mind.

I went because it just seemed interesting.

It is a step at a time.

It is a day at a time.

It's a philosophy.

And then every day you reset.

You know how it is.

You get to where you're going.

You may walk 28 miles that day.

You may walk 10 miles.

But you get to where you're going,

You clean up,

Maybe you nap,

But you almost always go into town.

And you collect,

Even along the way,

I met people from all over the world and the natives,

The people that grew up in those towns.

Those are the ones that were kind of the most interesting to me.

That's what I liked about it.

I can go in and get a flavor of each town.

It's like any traveler.

They go into any place in Italy or wherever and you want the flavor.

So I wouldn't hit the restaurants right in the center of town.

I would hit the restaurants.

I would go through and into like the back streets of the town and that's where I would find some really fantastic people.

The local people are what makes any exploration worth it.

I believe that's true too.

So I've read a lot of your writings.

I didn't pick anything out today for Bob to read,

But he selected a few things that he thought would really convey what it was like running and walking on the pilgrimage route.

So let's just,

Yeah,

Anything you like,

Bob.

We'll read a couple here about your experience in Spain,

As many as you like.

Okay,

So when you are walking every day is a reset,

As I said,

And it's a whole new experience.

When you're walking that many miles with a backpack,

It is almost like running.

Your mind is in that zone.

So I woke up one morning.

It was a cold morning and every place you stay is completely different.

These hostels,

They call them alberques.

I know some mornings you would wake up and run depending where you were at.

Yes,

I would.

It depends where I was at.

So this one,

I'm leaving this church.

So I wrote this thing and I write when I run because that's where my brain goes into these places.

So it's called Goodbye Church on the Hill.

And it goes like this,

Goodbye Church on the Hill.

So much like every other church in my own hills back home.

Like all other churches,

So distinct in details.

Yes,

Made of stone and wood,

Inspiration and sweat.

You rest on the earth that carries your burden.

And to her someday you will also surrender.

I travel in space under the same stars that I gaze up from my little church at home.

And like the breath of the transient traveler,

Your whispers will linger into eternity from which they came.

Passing them on like good deeds traveled from person to person.

I turn from the dark future to look at my past.

And there you stand on the hill.

Dim lights give a soft golden glow to your yellow stone,

Your skin.

And the edge of the hill cuts into and puts shadows on your foundation,

Building the mystique even further.

Like a ship on the sea viewed from shore.

Except you are the stone in the terracotta lighthouse for the lost souls.

Or the steady to keep the keel true and straight.

I will forever be grateful for your warmth and shelter during this cool autumn's evening.

Your scent will linger and belong to only me as a painting once viewed and then abandoned.

Designed to be reflected upon as an old schoolmate with both fondness and loss.

Ciao my refuge.

Wow,

That was beautiful.

Thank you.

You know,

Thinking about the morning,

The morning light and those little refuges that we come to,

Places that we find familiar as we set out on our morning run,

Morning run walk in a new place.

I think that all of us have those memories of those beacon points or places that we found secure in a foreign place.

You know,

There's one,

Bob,

If you wouldn't mind reading,

There's one which I've read recently and I've heard you read that I really like a dog in a box about,

So many times running we have these yapping dogs at our feet and on people's property that are trying to keep us,

You know,

Just trying to protect their turf really and protect their owners.

But it's a really whimsical look at it.

So I don't know if,

Yeah,

You have it with you.

I do.

That would be great.

I do.

And as I was running on October 5th of 2018,

My last trip,

And it goes,

It's dog in a box.

Hello dog in a box with your ferociously happy bark.

I'm glad that your bark has lost its edge.

It's now hidden behind your kind eyes.

You bust out with another set of Yelps.

This time out of the corner of your mouth with your head slightly turned to the owners of the house.

I took that as a gesture that you're performing your duty.

Autumn is here and your coat is thick and shaggy and it carries the dirt from as far as your chain goes.

I like your house dog in a box.

It's simple.

One room,

No need to be cleaned.

It's just swept several times a day by your fur.

But I think I like your landscape better.

It's a country setting.

It's a barnyard courtyard.

By the side of the road where you see thousands of pilgrims walking by with their backpacks and their sticks clicking.

Still,

You throw your barks at us.

Where I come from dogs sit in people's laps.

They have no collar,

No chain,

And their courtyard is Mercedes Benz where they sit on the driver's laps and they get their nails done in special boutiques.

And humans follow them with plastic bags to pick up their droppings.

Are you unaware of these things?

Maybe you are,

But you look quite content not knowing.

Perhaps you're like the poor child who doesn't know they're poor until someone says they are.

Sometimes nice old dogs just bark.

Kind of like the Cowardly Lion in the Wizard of Oz.

Put them up.

Put them up.

Thank you dog in a box for educating me today.

That I can be content wherever I am and carry kind eyes in a soft bark.

Wow,

That's beautiful Bob.

So carefree and funny and whimsical.

I really love that one and a lot of your writing is like that.

Whether it's introspective or outrospective.

One of the things I want everyone to key into is that as Bob travels he does write and whether he's sitting or walking or running and I would love it if others would link up to that and catch on fire like he has with the ability to share those experiences with others.

Those little magical moments that we have and the joy of running.

So I think that would be a good,

That's my intention for the podcast today.

Just to encourage anyone really who thinks they would like to share a few sentences,

A few words,

A few lines because I personally have found his writing so inspiring and I know from all of our mutual friends and from others on Facebook and however he shares by rudimentary ways have been inspired by them.

So thank you once again for sharing.

I think we'll have a few more readings towards the end about Iceland and one more at the end.

But before we do that Bob I wanted to ask you about what have been your personal greatest moments or things that you look back on in running,

Particularly travel running or going to another place to visit that have taken you outside of your comfort zones and why was that,

How did that outward journey help to feed into your inward growth and development as a person,

As a runner,

How does that outward experience translate back to you?

If you can put it in words.

I believe I can.

I believe any runner knows this,

That when you get down off of a run you feel like you've succeeded in something.

And if it's a run,

Like if you run like I run you want a little bit more and you want a little bit more.

Sometimes I'm content with just clicking along.

But the outward thing,

It's a different kind of question.

I guess I'm always looking around when I run.

I am always looking for something to be appreciative of.

And running in these different places,

Like the runners in New England,

As you say,

They have to endure cold.

They have to endure possibly slipping.

The burn of the lungs.

Or running with an injury.

That's another thing I've kind of been experiencing.

It's a fear thing.

Very common.

Yes,

Yes.

I do not want to,

I want to be mindful of my injuries and yet I want to challenge my injuries and don't let my injuries rule me because they will be bigger than they are if my mind lets them.

So I've got to be in a proper frame of mind to assess my capabilities.

And sometimes I go beyond them.

We did the run here in the Gasparilla.

Yes,

Yes.

Local Tampa race.

Yes.

And I was just,

I was revved.

And there were thousands of people in front of me and I just wanted to get around them.

So I started to dart and weave and dart and weave and I wasn't mindful.

And although it was a real joy having that ability to do that,

I got injured twice.

I injured myself.

And so I have to be specifically mindful to my body and honor what I'm not able to do.

Yeah,

That's a really good point.

I find often it's when I'm pushing myself or letting my ego get the best of me in runs too much that I'll get injured.

And for that matter,

Sometimes injury can be a welcome thing for a runner who,

Welcoming them to slow down,

To cross train,

To find a different pace perhaps,

To run with some other people than they normally run with.

Yeah,

How do you keep it fresh?

Right.

How do you keep your running fresh?

Well,

For me,

And we've talked about this before,

But seeking out others to talk with,

To share with is key.

Seek out,

Foster,

And praise the best in others and take joy in their joy.

And I think a lot of your writing,

It takes that,

For a personal,

You find that outward joy of others and then you reflect that back into yourself as you run,

Which I really admire.

I think that's a really cool take on it.

So thank you for answering that.

Okay,

So of course,

One of the things that I wanted to do as long as we have you here is to talk about some of your recent travel experiences and how to do it,

Some of the more practical things.

So let's finish up the Camino,

The pilgrimage,

So running as a pilgrim,

What that's like by just giving us some nuts and bolts.

How do you get there?

How do you plan this thing?

How much time is involved?

Do you fundraise?

I know that you've done some fundraising for Alzheimer's network as part of your journey,

But what are some things people should know if they're planning a couple week or a month long journey?

Well,

My approach was perhaps different than a lot of people's.

I started last year in Portugal and my objective was just to walk and Santiago de Compostela was like the objective for everybody.

The most important,

But I didn't plan by the way,

I didn't plan on how I was going to get from Madrid or to Porto.

Just got a plane ticket and then left it up.

The most important aspect of my training was what was in my backpack.

Was I bringing the right stuff?

And of course that changes as you go too,

Depending upon different elements and challenges in the road on the journey.

But I think my most important thing was there was no objective.

If I got to Santiago de Compostela,

That was great.

I walked with a man who that was his entire goal,

To stay in hotels and to get there.

And this year he wanted to return and do it again with me because I taught him that it's not the objective there.

It was that day's walk.

It was that moment's walk.

It was that experience that you're looking and smelling and feeling on your skin right now.

Sure.

The journey,

What is the saying?

The journey is the goal.

El Camino es la meta.

Absolutely.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

The most important thing to me was what was in the backpack.

And to have the right equipment to navigate and get there.

And of course there's.

.

.

I know we talked about this at one point,

But there are forums.

If you're planning a longer pilgrimage,

Whether it's to Machu Picchu or Costa Rica or you want to do some travel running or a pilgrimage run walk,

Going on a forum before you go and really talking to others who have done it is key.

Yes.

The American pilgrims on the Camino,

APAC,

Is the Facebook.

Yes.

And you get all of your answers there.

You just put a post on there and you will get 30,

50 responses.

Cool.

Well,

We'll post a link to that as well so people can connect with that resource.

Okay.

Well,

Let's move on because I know we're.

.

.

I told you we'd be about a half hour.

Let's move on to your most recent trip to Iceland.

And your experience there.

Iceland is really,

Really quite nostalgic and beautiful in the mind of I think most of us.

And I would love to hear about what it's like,

What running there was like,

And what impressions it left on you as a running explorer.

Yeah,

That's a great question.

Thank you for bringing up the memory for me.

Of course,

If you've been there,

And it is popular now,

It's kind of like a marsh in the land of flat with rolling hills and it's volcanic and it's got turbulent seas and just a beautiful coastline.

When I went in March,

All the grass,

It was not green anywhere.

All the grass was like a yellowish brown.

And there were no animals anywhere.

I mean,

No animals.

And when I was running through the fields,

Because I don't like to be on roads often,

Although you have to be careful in the fields here,

I just saw all the droppings from these animals.

I didn't see one.

And apparently they take them all inside.

Okay.

Yeah.

Especially when it's bitter cold out.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So it's in the 30s when I was there.

So I just never saw any animals.

And we didn't spend any time.

I have another friend,

He's a runner,

And we didn't spend any time in the Reykjavik or any towns.

We got an Airbnb on the Atlantic,

On the southeast corner.

And we got a four-wheel drive and we went around different places,

But the running was exceptional.

And the landscape was exceptional too.

There was an astounding beauty I can't describe.

And from others,

I've heard it's a feeling of isolation,

But yeah,

At the same time with connection to the land.

Yeah.

There's no,

It's very agrarian and our house was warmed by geothermic water.

The windows were open and the floors were warmed by the water.

But you have a house and then a mile later you have a house.

Then a mile later you might have three or four or six.

Then you have another town,

You have a town you go through.

So very isolating kind of feeling.

And I think that landscape gives a feeling of aloneness to me,

Which was really,

I was grateful for.

That's really neat.

Well,

Bob,

Would you mind sharing one of your reflections?

I know there was one run in particular that you said was around 14 miles that you did.

The location was,

That was at Selflas in the area of Selflas,

Which is south of Reykjavik between Parlaxhafen and Halfa Skid.

Those names are not accurately pronounced,

I'm sure,

But we'll be posting pictures and links to that location as well on the website if you're interested in where it is and what it looks like.

But yeah,

Would you mind reading something for us,

Bob?

Not at all.

So this was just out of my log as I went back home.

So it was a cold day in Iceland,

The kind of clean cold air that a runner can't refuse her calling.

I could sit comfortably in this geothermically warmed home,

Content in my jet lag state of mind,

Or I could do what runners do,

Breach the threshold of the door and explore.

My run took me along the Atlantic coast where the mist from the turbulent waves mingled with the land.

I launched out into the field,

Careful not to twist an ankle on the hidden volcanic rocks.

I transist to the road whose components are made up of,

Yeah,

More black rock.

The road climbs in my breathing labors.

I pass a field and a short stout house,

Sorry,

A short stout horse draws close to me.

We meet in mutual fearless love.

Something like Icelandic horses,

Ancient beauties.

The hills in the distance are rounded and blackened by the clear,

Blanketed by the clear blue and white skyscraper.

I follow the fence line and turn up and into the hills.

There was a beauty in this dark Martian landscape.

It drew me further and further into my run and the openness of the sky and landscaping gave me the power to not think about the level of difficulty in this run and the demands upon my muscles and lungs.

Then the road descended as I hit the apex of my run.

The road winds and the sea gets closer.

I now feel the mist and I'm thankful that the air is so cool and clean.

Back at the Airbnb,

I take out my phone and see what was supposed to be a short run had turned into a 14 mile blessing.

Time to jump into the jacuzzi and the hot water that is replenished by the beautiful earth's hot water.

Wow.

That's wonderful.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

That's such a vivid image of what it's like to run across that landscape.

I'm sure that it's pretty cold for most of the year.

This was springtime,

But if you want a slightly warmer run in Iceland,

You might be able to get one in the summer.

It's a rare window there of opportunity.

I know that for a lot of us,

We appreciate and enjoy that challenge of having some gear and actually using it in the colder weather,

Particularly if you're not from further north where the weather is very often like that.

For Floridians in particular,

It's really a joy to feel that crisp cold air and be able to travel and do a run like that.

A lot of the big marathons,

Of course,

Up north and a lot of the beautiful runs.

Bob,

You didn't do any formal racing there,

But just running recreationally,

Right?

Yes.

Just recreation.

Would you have any tips or suggestions for others planning a trip like this?

How they would go about doing that or what's a good way to travel that's not too expensive or anything like that?

I'm a bit of a minimalist,

Mark.

My thing is to travel as light as possible and as simple as possible.

If I need something,

I worry about it at the time I need it and take care of my business.

That's good advice.

I do know that there are short,

Inexpensive flights that you can find to Iceland pretty much throughout the year or you can even have it as a stopover if you're planning a trip to Europe and you fly Icelandair,

You can get a free stopover.

Something like that would be a good tip.

Otherwise I don't know.

Neither.

Okay.

No worries.

Let me finish up,

Bob,

Just by asking you this one more question.

The last question I have for you,

Because I know that really your work in music therapy and in healing work with the elderly,

With Alzheimer's people has really given you and informed you and bred so much consciousness about the spirituality of running and about why you run as well as fundraising for the Alzheimer Support Network.

Could you tell us a little bit about your day-to-day,

What you do and why it's so special to you?

Certainly.

And it's a pleasure.

So I have about 30 performances each month and they are all at Alzheimer communities.

And I have a vocal microphone that I walk around and it's connected to my ear,

Same with my guitar.

And my job is to see if I,

Through music,

Can open a window into their consciousness and bring them here and now.

Most people are content in these communities.

Some are not.

And my job is to concentrate also on those who are not.

But if I can open a window through music,

Then I can work with something.

So if there's a family member next to them or somebody,

It becomes a cognitive connection with someone they had thought they had lost.

And that makes it worth it.

So my job from that moment on is to keep that window open as long as I can.

And for me personally,

The fundraising that you do,

By the way,

Alzheimer Support Network is great for your next run or if you find a connection with it,

Is a great cause I found to connect with.

And I personally have felt like I for once understood what families are going through and what Alzheimer's does and how to support them better through reading your work and finding out about what you do.

So thank you for that.

So once again,

I will be posting a link to a few articles about Bob's work in musical therapy and also ways that you can get involved with Alzheimer's support if you find that you're able to do so.

And would you be willing to read one more poem to take us out,

One of the running ones possibly?

Certainly.

This is a recent writing.

I love to run in the rain.

And again,

This is a stream of consciousness that came from my lips while running onto my notes on my iPhone.

And it goes like this.

I approached her from a half a mile away.

The road was straight and I wore the wide open Florida sky like a domed crown.

The rhythmic sound of the raindrops hitting the rim of my baseball cap and the crunch of the seashell path disappeared as I entered her welcoming portal.

There was a slight and cool drizzle during my run in the forest today.

I knew what my life was going to be like in this waterlogged environment.

Yes,

It was beautiful and it made the running soft and muffled.

One of my favorite places to run,

I approached her with such enthusiasm.

I thought to myself how she smells different today than my run through her yesterday.

Dry and cushioned tinder created from time worn seasonal droppings.

Waterlogged trees,

Shrubs,

And undergrowth instantly infused and suffused clean and organic compounds into my sinuses,

Lungs,

Skins,

And organ.

My body was changing instantly with these chemicals as was my soul.

While running I scared a rabbit,

It sprinted straight for five yards,

Darted radically right and left in succession.

It was hard to follow so I concentrated on his big white tail.

Instantly it ran into the bushes to my left and all I could see was the white tail.

Suddenly it hopped three feet in the air and another radical right turn.

I was confused and kind of sent into another consciousness.

It was radical and illogical that this movement was like this.

And then it went to left again and six inches up and then right and then down and out into the trail where I found out that it was a white moth.

The rabbit must have scared it and serendipitously the moth picked up the path that drew my attention away from the cottontail.

Happy Easter,

I thought.

Back on the trail,

The light rain softened and the pine needles and oak leaves and the bike run was silent.

And in my own slow run I lean into the small trees that the path goes around.

Looking ahead of me like downhill skier preparing for the next turn right or turn left.

Slow run but still cut in corners.

And then the straightaway where the squirrels clamor and chatter as if annoyed.

And as I get closer they stop and hide behind the base of the tree kind of looking at me with one eye visible to me.

Kind of like a child playing peekaboo.

Thank you again for being with us for another wonderful podcast.

Find us on at Running Anthropologist on Facebook,

Running Anthropologist,

All one word,

Facebook or Instagram.

And until next time,

Happy running.

Bye.