21:18

Practicing With Depression_2

by Lisa Goddard

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5
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talks
Activity
Meditation
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Everyone
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Many people have had some experience with depression or have someone close in that has suffered from depression and our exploration is into seeing how this deeply afflictive mind state can be a portal on our spiritual path. One of the key practices in working with depression is to really start noticing and paying attention to the content of our thoughts. Mindfulness and practice start to challenge our thinking. We begin to take a really good look at the story the mind is telling.

DepressionThoughtsGratitudeHappinessMindfulnessSomaticThought ObservationIntention SettingGladdening The MindGratitude WalkingImplicit MemoryIntentionsMemoriesMindfulness TherapySomatic TherapiesSpirits

Transcript

So we've dedicated this week's exploration to the topic of depression.

And this is the third talk.

And many,

Many people have some experience with depression or have someone close in that has suffered with depression.

And so our exploration is into seeing how this deeply afflictive mind state can actually be a portal on our spiritual path.

So I'd like to start with a story.

And this is a true story about a Japanese monk named Nemoto.

And it's a recent story.

Nemoto works with people who are very depressed and suicidal in Japan.

So the suicide rate in Japan is quite high.

And he worked primarily online on the phone with people.

But he was finding that these conversations with these individuals who were having struggles,

Were just kind of circular.

And people weren't really getting better.

And he was burning out from it.

So he decided that if people who were experiencing depression wanted his counsel,

They would have to come to his temple.

And his temple was located in a really,

Really remote area.

So they'd have to really want his help.

So one man decided that he wanted his help.

And he had to walk five hours to get to Nemoto's temple.

And this man had been living as a shut in,

Meaning that he just stayed at home and never went out.

So as he's embarking on this journey,

He's outside and the elements in the sun and the wind,

And he's moving his body and he's walking and he's perspiring a little bit.

And as he walks,

He thinks about what he's going to say to Nemoto.

And as he's walking,

He becomes really aware of what's been challenging for him.

So he's paying attention to his inner experience.

And it's been a really long time since he had spoken to anyone.

So this is kind of a big deal for him.

And he sees that he's actually bringing a lot of courage to his intimate life to his intimate experience to actually talk with someone else.

And he's sweating and he's walking.

And he finally gets there after about five hours.

And he says to Nemoto that he has achieved understanding.

And he turns around and he walks back home.

That's a true story.

So in some way,

He got in touch with his intention.

He wanted to get better.

He wanted to get better.

And for us,

When there is depression in the body,

When we start to get in touch with the pain of not living the life that we want to be living,

That loss,

When we get in touch with that loss,

That's when we can start to bring our care.

That loss that has been ungrieved in our life.

When we start grieving our losses,

Feeling that grief,

I really want to be all I can be and I haven't been.

That longing can energize us to take the steps.

And the problem often with experiencing and working with depression is that it's paralyzing.

We don't want to do anything.

And when we get in touch with our intention,

There's something deep in us that wants this to change.

That can get us into motion.

And that intention could be spoken,

It could be written,

It could be just a felt-like thing.

Written,

It could be just a felt sense.

And so what I invited you to do at the end of the meditation,

Reflecting on what you love,

When you start reflecting on what you love,

That is like the motion of intention.

All of these things can be just enough to get us into motion.

One of the key practices in working with depression is to really start noticing and paying attention to the content of our thoughts.

If the thought is,

What's the point?

They'd be better off without me.

What mindfulness practice does is it starts to challenge those notions.

What's the evidence that they'd be better off without me?

Take a really good look at the story that the mind is telling.

This is an important part of the practice.

Take a really good look at the story and then see if it's true.

If you really look,

Most of the time it's not true.

It's just a thought.

It's just thinking.

The Buddha said that whatever a person frequently thinks and reflects on,

That will become the inclination of their mind.

Whatever a person frequently thinks and reflects on,

That will become the inclination of the mind.

That's a powerful statement.

And that seems to have been true in my own experience.

See if it's true in yours.

So we learn to pay attention to our thoughts.

If we go along with whatever the mind is producing,

Whatever role the mind has assigned,

Then it's likely that that behavior will be perpetuated and that it will confirm our beliefs about ourselves.

So we interrupt the thought simply by looking and becoming aware of what we're thinking.

And if we catch ourselves in thought,

Then that meaning,

Like what that we can see,

Oh,

This is a thought.

And what that means is that we,

The awareness is bigger than the thought.

When we see,

Oh,

This is thinking,

We're resting in awareness that's bigger than the thinking.

And what that reveals is that we don't have to believe our thoughts.

We don't have to believe them.

The thought can be real.

It's what's happening in the mind,

But it might not be true.

And we can challenge them.

Such a key part is challenging the thought.

Is it true?

So as I've shared mindfulness practice,

Coupled with therapy has been a portal for me in working with my own depression.

Meditation has been essential,

Essential,

But it's not in and of itself enough for major depression.

It's essential,

But it's not in and of itself enough.

Relationships with friends,

Relationships with the therapist,

Sometimes antidepressants are useful for people,

Mindfulness-based cognitive therapies,

Somatic therapies.

Mindfulness practice for me has been essential.

It's been an essential part of my journey.

I heard this story about a man who struggled with depression and anxiety because anxiety also comes along with depression.

And his therapist encouraged him to start meditating,

Said that he'll start feeling better.

And so he goes to some meditation classes,

Kind of like how we come together.

And you know,

He's starting to experience the practice.

And then the therapist advises him to go on a meditation retreat and said,

Again,

Then he'll start feeling better.

So he goes,

He goes on like a 10 day meditation retreat and he comes back and he tells his therapist like,

This was really difficult.

Like I felt fear and sadness and shame.

And you told me that I would feel better.

And the therapist said,

Well,

Yes,

You're feeling better,

Your pain and you're feeling better,

Your sadness,

You're feeling it all better.

The truth is that when we begin to bring mindfulness to depression,

We can feel it more strongly.

You know,

We feel what's there more strongly.

So it's important not to take this journey alone.

If there's a really strong pull for towards depression,

And we feel it prematurely,

That is with not a lot of skill,

We can sink into it.

We can get stuck there.

So I want to offer a practice known as gladdening the mind.

And one of them I shared with you,

Which is to bring into the mind that which you love,

That which you love.

And it can be as subtle as I said,

The sound of the birds waking up after the long winter,

Or the way that the sky looks.

It can be the way that your four,

That your four,

Four legged pets just look at you like you're the most significant thing in their life.

It could be your loved ones,

Your beloveds,

Or just your friends who make you laugh.

What is it that you love?

So bringing that into mind,

Physical exercise can shift our bodily state if we're really feeling heavy and low and lethargic,

Getting outside.

And gladdening the mind can change our mental state.

So the intention of gratitude,

Of practicing gratitude,

Has shown,

Has been shown in numerous studies to relieve depression,

Practicing gratitude.

So some of you are aware of or know the work of the Jesuit priest.

His name is Father Gregory Boyle,

And he founded Homeboy Industries in Los Angeles.

And it's a gang intervention rehabilitation center.

And the work that happens under his guidance is really beautiful and extraordinary.

I'm trying to think if I have his book here on my bookshelf called,

It's called Tattoos on the Heart by Father Gregory Boyle.

Really beautiful.

If you haven't read it,

It's a great story and a true story of Homeboy Industries.

And so they have this guiding principle at Homeboy,

And that is that lament cannot get a foothold if gratitude gets there first.

Lament cannot get a foothold if gratitude gets there first.

So in training in gratitude,

We're training to bring the state of gratefulness to become an outgoing trait within us.

We all know,

You know,

How it feels when there's happiness.

You know,

We feel appreciation when we're focused on that which we love and how we get there.

Like what is what we do here?

You know,

We pause,

We pause intentionally and regularly.

And this is how we train in gratitude and taking in the good and taking in what's beautiful and inspires awe.

So when you're touched by something,

It could be even in the room that you're in.

Stop and pause for 15 to 20 seconds and just savor it and feel it in your body.

So the reason for this length of time is that when we have negative experiences in life,

What happens on the level of the chemistry in our brain is that those negative experiences go right into implicit memory,

Meaning that they are stored and they come back.

Negative experiences stored and come back.

When we have positive experiences,

This is fascinating,

They don't.

We just move through them.

Isn't that interesting?

So neuroscience research is stating that in order for the taking in of the good,

The savoring to enter the implicit memory,

The storage,

The recall,

We have to pause for 15 to 20 seconds.

So this is a practice.

So what are some of the other ways?

So this is another way of inclining the mind.

Some other ways of beefing up this gratitude practice can be as simple as keeping a gratitude journal or just even a regular journal and writing once a week,

Five things you're grateful for once a week can make a difference.

And I like the idea of gratitude buddies.

This is,

I've done this practice with another where you partner up with someone in our sangha and you do this.

How it works is that once a day at the end of the day,

Before you turn off your computer for the night,

You send an email to your buddy and you say what you're grateful for and you don't have to say anything else.

You don't even have to thank them or acknowledge their email.

Just do it and then at some point you check in with each other.

One of the strategies and practices of the meditation teacher Tara Brock,

Who is such a wise teacher and a teacher to some of you in this practice,

And I've adopted this because it's really simple and I really love it.

And she calls it a gratitude walk.

And how it works is that you get yourself outside or you have to get the dogs out or you're just needing to get out of the house.

And whatever comes to mind,

Whatever comes into your view even,

You whisper thank you.

So thank you for my dogs who keep me company.

Thank you for the river and the sound of the river over the rocks.

Thank you for the mountains.

Thank you for my beautiful son Oliver and my beloved Seth and my amazing friends and my community that I practice with.

Thank you for the wind.

Thank you for the snow.

It goes on and on.

And even sometimes you have to,

You get lost in a thought and then you come back to the gratitude practice.

Thank you for bringing me back to the gratitude practice.

And what's so amazing about this,

Because I've tried it and I really like it,

As I've said,

It always works.

It always works.

It's never not.

And maybe it feels false or artificial at first,

But no matter how forced it may feel,

Deep down,

Our heart does feel this love for life.

And this simple practice gets us there.

So as we come to the end of this practice today,

Just close your eyes.

And most of you have your mic off.

And I invite you to whisper what you're grateful for.

And I invite you to say what you're grateful for.

Meet your Teacher

Lisa GoddardAspen, CO, USA

5.0 (28)

Recent Reviews

John

May 23, 2025

So good. Thanks, Lisa.

Nadine

August 27, 2024

Thank you for some beautiful reminders and helpful new things to try.❤️

Steve

July 25, 2024

I need to hear this again

Sabine

March 26, 2023

To have a depression buddy on the side, someone who understands...is VERY helpful!! And I love the gratitude exercise!!!! 💝🙏🪷

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