The Gift Of Being Heard

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Thank you so much.

So tonight's talk is actually going to be on listening and to begin I want to just start out with a confession which is that it has been an incredibly difficult month for me on many different fronts and it's just one of those times where every day seems to bring a new kind of baseball bat of sorts like a punch in the gut and every day it's like one of those we all go through those times you know.

My little kitty,

Mudita,

Is dying for one thing and I know we've all been there.

It's just life and sometimes it brings you a whole season of extra innings,

You know,

But in many ways honestly it's also been a kind of blessing because every day I seem to now be given a new chance to use my practice and to keep my heart open and to be reminded every day really vividly of the first noble truth which is there is suffering and I'm not alone.

There is suffering and I'm not alone.

It's truly what connects us.

Many years ago I actually called one of my teachers saying that you could probably walk up to anybody on the planet at any moment and place your hand in theirs and say something like I just wanted to let you know a friend of mine told me what you've been going through lately and I'm so sorry.

That sounds really hard.

Right?

Everybody?

Everybody?

Anybody not going through something?

Anybody?

Yeah,

No hands,

Right?

Most people would nod.

There's maybe one thing.

You know,

Sometimes there's 20 things.

Sometimes it's just one,

You know,

But that's I'm sorry that sounds hard.

So you know I've been going through all of this and being reminded of what an absolute blessing and gift it is to be listened to when this stuff is going on and to be on the receiving end of compassion and empathy.

What a gift it is and I think during our sharing of joy,

Our Wadita last week,

I shared that my joy was that evening receiving some of that listening and understanding from a friend and a fellow teacher,

Rob Arner,

Who was here and he came early to help me and he also told me I wasn't crazy for feeling a variety of different emotions,

You know,

Sadness and anger and hurt.

It was so liberating to just,

You know,

Have that type of listening and by the way that kind of allowing,

You know,

Especially as a meditation teacher,

You're angry and it's okay.

You're not crazy.

Oh,

So liberating.

So tonight I wanted to spend a little time revisiting the practice of mindful listening and how incredibly important it is and what a gift it is and how difficult it is for all of us.

And really,

This is why it's a practice.

Mindful listening is a practice.

We don't all do it that well and it's difficult because of many reasons but one of which is it really requires us to be present,

Doesn't it,

When we're listening,

Which means also getting out of our very strong,

Often fierce sense of self.

That part is also incredibly important when we're listening so that we can get out of the narrative that's often just constantly playing in our own minds and actually hear what the other person has to say.

And here I like to remember that if you take the T out of the word heart,

It spells here,

H-E-A-R,

Right,

Which also interestingly relates to the word here,

H-E-R-E,

Right,

Here,

Here,

Heart.

Whenever we aren't here or present or making a great effort to really hear what the other person or the people are saying,

We're engaging in what might be called more of a monologue,

Which mainly consists of transferring the conversation or argument we're having in our own minds out into the open by vocalizing it.

Isn't that what we do?

So you might experience this often,

For instance,

The people that you're the closest to.

You're both talking,

Maybe back and forth,

Maybe just having breakfast,

You're both talking,

But in reality you're both having two totally different conversations.

And this usually involves mostly the one you're having with yourself and the one the other person is having with themselves.

So it's like that old saying,

Two monologues do not make a dialogue.

And this could also be considered a kind of hostage situation.

And I'm sure we've all found ourselves in that place,

Right,

Of being held hostage in some way by someone who is completely unaware that the person or the people that they've been talking to or at haven't contributed to the conversation in five,

Ten,

Fifteen minutes maybe,

Maybe for a whole hour,

You know,

Just completely unaware of the monologue.

And there's no,

You know,

I used to,

Oh I shouldn't tell this story,

But if it's one thing it's my mother.

And she used to talk so much that one time I put the phone down and walked away just as an experiment to see if I came back,

She'd still be talking and not realizing that I was gone.

And it was fifteen minutes and I came back and she was still talking as if I was not there.

But on the other hand,

Have you ever tried to have a conversation with someone who isn't really listening to you?

And by the way,

This might be the same person,

Right?

So maybe the person who isn't listening is busy looking at their phone,

You know,

While you're talking or maybe they walk into another room as you're talking.

Maybe just after they've finished saying something and you've just started,

They'll walk,

Oh now I'm done I've got to go and get a cup of coffee or whatever it is.

Or maybe after everything you say,

You know,

They jump directly into a topic that relates to them without having acknowledged what you've just shared,

Okay?

This not listening might also show up in the form of someone having their ears sort of mentally covered over by their own habitual hardened belief system which doesn't allow them to hear or consider anything new that you might happen to be offering.

So as the author Stephen Covey once so wisely noted,

Most people do not listen with the intent to understand.

They listen with the intent to reply.

Isn't that true?

And the truth is when someone isn't aware of how much they're talking or when someone isn't listening or is closed off,

There is very often a strong focus on self,

Me,

Mine,

My story.

And because of this very strong grip,

As you might imagine,

There tends to be a corresponding lack of awareness of other when we're so caught up in self which makes true communication,

Community really impossible,

Right?

And as the teachings remind us again and again and again and again,

This constant focus on self is actually the source of our deepest wounding and pain because it cuts us off from one another and from the whole and keeps us from recognizing our true innate belonging and connection.

We just aren't going to see it.

I always find it really helpful to remember that the word communication is derived from the Latin word communiquere which means to share with caring,

To share with caring.

You might also consider again the words communion or community.

And so when one person is dominating the exchange or the conversation,

You might consider this as a kind of lack of sharing,

Not sharing the space,

The time,

Not sharing in community,

Communion.

And when we're not thinking of communion and are more self-focused,

Self-centered,

What happens is that we're in a sense closing ourselves off.

We're locking ourselves into a kind of box of our own understanding.

We only can see our self view inside this box.

Having said that,

Of course,

When somebody is going through something really difficult,

You know,

Friends and loved ones might recognize this person's need to take a little more of their share of the conversation pie,

Right,

At that moment.

And we all need this at some point,

This care and support as a member of community.

And it's important to ask for this help from others.

It's really important to confess that we're struggling and need a little bit more of that shared communication pie,

Need a little bigger bite of that pie.

It's also really good to recognize and be aware of when we need this and,

And really important,

Aware of what we are asking of others when we do ask,

Right?

And by the way,

Sometimes it's important to give ourselves that permission,

You know.

Some of us tend to be constant givers.

And for so many reasons,

It's often really difficult to ask for people to do the same for us,

Right?

We know who we are out there,

Have a hard time asking.

But sometimes there can be a pattern or a habit of communicating that involves doing quite a lot of taking and not a lot of receiving or giving,

Okay?

And this type of relating,

I kind of liken it,

For instance,

To someone who is maybe constantly borrowing money from almost everyone they know again and again,

But never getting around to paying it back.

It's the same kind of concept,

Right?

So with this example of someone taking up too much time,

What's often showing up is actually a lack of awareness or a lack of more expanded awareness that is going to include others beyond this limited view of self.

And by the way,

Habitual pattern of not listening usually involves not being willing to share or offer ourselves to others.

So this means not being willing to give our own understanding or kindness or empathy,

Essentially our hearts or our presence.

You have to be willing to give that if you're going to be a good listener.

Isn't that true?

You have to give.

It's a giving.

And so if you think about it,

When people are talking too much,

They might be unaware of how much they are actually taking.

Too much of our time,

Our life energy,

Understanding,

Kindness,

Etc.

,

Maybe without even asking.

Just last week,

Someone shared a post on Facebook that I loved.

This woman said,

I have a friend who always asked me before venting or sharing concerns if I quote,

Have the mental space for it right now.

And I got to say that willingness to respect boundaries and not demand a loved one dedicate emotional energy they may not have that day.

That's the healthiest shit ever.

It's true.

I love that.

All of this being said,

Of course,

You know,

We all do these things ourselves,

Don't we?

We all do it.

And to some degree,

If we're honest,

We're not aware that we're doing this sometimes.

And we're human.

It's really,

Really okay.

And again,

The truth is,

Sadly,

We can never change other people.

Ah,

Darn it,

Right?

Can't do it.

We can't change their pattern of communication even.

Can't do that.

Their ways of relating or sharing.

We can only do this for ourselves.

This is where the practice comes in.

This is the good news,

Right?

Often when we change ourselves,

When we work on ourselves,

Sometimes to our surprise,

That in turn changes the way that everybody else relates to us.

It changes our community,

Our communion,

Communication,

Right?

It starts with us.

It's also super helpful to remember that,

Again,

Listening is very much a practice.

It's something that we need to very consciously remember and bring ourselves back to again and again.

It's truly a lifetime training to be a good listener.

The Pali term Sati,

S-A-T-I,

Mindfulness,

Actually means to recall,

To bring to mind,

To remember,

To be mindful of,

Right?

So as we deepen our practice,

We can continue to be mindful of,

Recall,

Remember,

Pay attention to our listening skills.

Ask yourselves that question.

How are my listening skills?

Just check that out.

And as most of you know,

Mindful listening is part of the mindful speech section of the Noble Eightfold Path.

Really important.

And when it comes to mindful speech,

Mindful listening is probably about 90 to 99% of the whole practice,

Right?

Because good listening is,

In essence,

It's the ground,

It's the soil of good communication.

It's literally rooted there.

It gets its start there,

Listening.

The idea is that nothing can grow in barren soil.

There's no listening.

You're not going to have a lot of communication.

So how do we begin to practice this,

The art of listening?

Again,

As with everything in practice,

We start with ourselves.

So we first need to learn how to listen to ourselves,

To bring the heart practices to ourselves.

We don't start by listening to somebody else,

Right?

Start by listening to ourselves.

And we do this through our practice by what we just did this evening,

Which is stopping all of our other activity or distraction and spending some time in silence with ourselves,

Being with ourselves,

And listening to what we've been saying,

To what our hearts have been saying.

And we give ourselves our own kind,

Warm-hearted presence and understanding.

That's how we practice.

We don't practice with aversion,

So that's not going to help us to listen to other people with kindness.

It's going to help us to listen to other people with judgment and aversion,

Right?

As theologian Paul Tillich once wrote,

The first duty of love,

The first duty of love is to listen.

The great Zen master Thich Nhat Hanh tells us we listen with,

Quote,

No blame,

No reasoning,

Just understanding.

If you understand and you show that you understand,

You can love and the situation will change.

It's also helpful for me to remember that the words listen and silent are both created out of the same letters.

It's the geeky writer part of me coming out.

But isn't that cool?

Listen and silent made out of the same letters.

So as we sit in silence and listen,

What we're practicing is how to be with all of the difficult feelings and emotions and thoughts that are arising within us when we do finally stop and listen to what we've been saying to ourselves.

And again,

As we do this,

We're making a strong effort to practice doing this without aversion or hostility,

But with a tremendous amount of kindness,

Metta,

Friendliness,

Compassion,

Karuna,

Equanimity.

And we do this by listening to and allowing,

Allowing whatever arises to be heard within us without shutting down or trying to fix or running away.

And especially without judging.

Ah,

Right?

The writer Parker Palmer reminds us,

If we want to support each other's inner lives,

We must remember a simple truth.

The human soul does not want to be fixed.

It simply wants to be seen and heard.

And this is also,

Of course,

True of ourselves.

Our own hearts just need to be heard without judgment.

They don't need to be fixed.

They just need to be listened to.

And how hard that is,

Right?

You listen and then you,

How often do you just immediately want to fix?

Because that's wrong.

It shouldn't be.

So I'm going to fix it,

Right?

Instead of just being with it,

Which is what we're trying to practice.

Just for a moment,

Think about what happens in any conversation you have when there's judgment.

What happens when there's judgment in a conversation?

With judgment,

There tends to be a sense of not being heard or seen or understood,

Which is of course what we all want.

And so there's going to be inevitable hurt and then a defensiveness and maybe even a complete shutting down.

In the extreme,

This might even lead to a shutting down or a cutting off of the relationship because honestly,

No one wants to be judged over and over and over because it's so painful.

Nobody wants that.

And yet we do it to ourselves,

Don't we?

This is how we relate to ourselves so often.

So we can practice this non-judgment by being willing to be with all our own messiness.

To respectfully listen to ourselves with friendliness and respect so that we're not cutting ourselves off from ourselves.

We're not battling with ourselves.

And the best example of this that I know of comes from an exchange between Winnie the Pooh and Piglet,

Which I'm going to read to you.

Today was a difficult day,

Said Pooh.

There was a pause.

Do you want to talk about it?

Asked Piglet.

No,

Said Pooh after a bit.

No,

I don't think I do.

That's okay,

Said Piglet.

And he came and he sat beside his friend.

What are you doing?

Asked Pooh.

Nothing,

Really,

Said Piglet.

Only I know what difficult days are like.

I quite often don't feel like talking about it on my difficult days either.

But goodness,

Continued Piglet,

Difficult days are so much easier when you know you've got someone there for you.

They'll always be here for you,

Pooh.

As Pooh sat there working through his head,

His difficult day,

While the solid,

Reliable Piglet sat next to him quietly,

Swinging his little legs.

He thought that his best friend had never been more right.

Just love Pooh.

So essentially,

We're being asked to be like Piglet here,

To practice being our own best friend,

By allowing our own thoughts and feelings to be seen and heard and felt without any judgment,

With just simply with an open presence,

An open mind,

Kindness and understanding.

And what happens is that as we practice this way,

It's really a practice,

We gradually learn to do this with other people in our lives as well.

You know,

To be with them without needing to fix them,

Without judging,

Critiquing,

Arguing,

Just be present and understand.

And just a reminder,

Metta,

Loving kindness,

Does not mean we need to love something.

We don't need to love our difficult feelings or our thoughts,

Or even that person that we might be disagreeing with,

Right?

Metta just means how we meet and welcome the thoughts and the feelings.

And even that difficult person,

We do it with respect,

With a kind of unconditional friendliness,

Right?

A willingness to open our minds and listen,

Maybe if,

And especially,

Maybe if we feel angry or hurt.

That's a really hard one.

So with mindful listening then,

We're not being asked to agree.

We're simply being asked to listen and to receive,

To make an effort to understand with kindness and maybe even open up to another possibility within ourselves or another person.

So this practice of listening to ourselves is what is going to ultimately help us to be more in tune with another person and able to listen to them,

To better attune,

Be in communion with.

According to the dictionary,

Attune means to bring into accord with,

Harmonize,

Or bring into sympathetic relationship.

So when I think of attune,

I think of attuning fork,

Which is using its vibrations to bring musical notes to a harmonious pitch.

And when we are deeply listening to,

Listening,

We are using the tuning forks of our hearts,

If you will,

To bring ourselves into sympathetic relationship,

Into harmony,

Accord,

Communion with whoever we're listening to.

You might think of that tuning fork of the heart.

One of the problems with this,

Of course,

Is that whenever we have too much music or noise in our own minds,

It's often really difficult to access or use that inner tuning fork,

Too much noise.

And most of the time,

Many of us don't even realize how out of tune we are,

How distracted.

When we are constantly distracted with our own thoughts or,

You know,

Maybe we're distracting ourselves with something,

We tend to get used to it,

And it becomes background noise,

And we don't even hear it.

So again,

Through our practice,

We can slowly begin to notice,

Become aware of what has been running in the background of our lives.

Right?

Maybe even just simply the TV is always on,

Or the radio,

Or the stereo,

You know,

Or YouTube,

MSNBC,

NPR,

Whatever it is.

Our distraction with social media,

Other people demanding our time can be a distraction.

All the things we consider obligations,

Right,

That might not actually be true.

Right?

We're just making it up as it is an obligation.

And all the other activities and busyness that we use to keep ourselves constantly distracted,

Constantly doing,

Instead of listening to our own mind,

Body,

And heart.

That's what distraction does,

Doesn't it?

Keeps us away from listening in here.

So we realize often that this is exactly what we've been avoiding,

Being with ourselves and our own thoughts.

I get this a lot on retreat.

People say,

I'll try it for an hour or two,

And say,

Too much time with myself,

I've got to go.

Let me go distract myself.

And honestly,

Sometimes these voices,

When we start to hear them,

Are really difficult to listen to.

Our thoughts can be repetitive or worrying,

Reminiscing about what we did wrong or what went wrong,

How wrong we are,

How wrong other people or situations are.

And our minds can get really loud with suggestions about how we can fix all of these things.

All those situations and people and ourselves.

How often do we do this all day,

Right?

How can I fix?

How can I fix?

You might recall what it's like trying to listen to the news when someone else is sitting next to you sharing their very,

Very boisterous opinion about the news.

Has anybody had that experience?

My husband does this all the time.

I'm trying to listen to the news.

And he's in the background talking over the newscaster,

Telling me his boisterous opinion.

I can't hear anything.

I can't hear you.

I can't hear the news.

And yet what we often don't realize is that we're listening to another person like this all day long in the form of our own thoughts,

Right?

So often we're not even aware that we're doing this.

And when we aren't aware,

It makes it incredibly difficult to really listen deeply to someone else to stop that person that's talking over the news and the mind.

And so what happens is that we end up wanting to distract ourselves from whatever they're saying or expressing,

Or maybe becoming judgmental or irritated or impatient or argumentative or bored or,

Again,

Wanting to offer suggestions about how to fix and make it better instead of listening.

No?

Anybody in here like unsolicited advice?

Anybody like to be fixed?

Ah,

No hands.

Right?

So,

You know,

When we aren't listening to ourselves,

By the way,

When we're closed off to other opinions,

We are in essence solidifying and making into ice our beliefs.

And this is especially true of our own beliefs about ourselves and who we think we are,

Right?

When there's no other opinion but what's in your own head and you're listening to that all day,

This is who I am,

This is who I am,

This is who I am,

This is who I am,

You're locked in,

Right?

So one of the ways we can start to practice mindful listening is to start to become aware of all the ways we've been distracting ourselves,

Make a very conscious effort to put those aside and become even more quiet so that we can really truly start to listen to ourselves and our hearts.

This doesn't necessarily mean just meditation,

You know?

Sit by the window for 15 minutes,

Watch in the rain,

Just be and listen,

You know?

Take five minutes out of your day to sit down and listen.

In the same way,

When we're practicing being with another person,

We are going to make a conscious effort to put aside doing and listen with our whole selves in the same way.

Eckhart Tolle writes about this listening this way.

When listening to another person,

Don't just listen with your mind,

Listen with your whole body.

Feel the energy field of your inner body as you listen.

That takes attention away from thinking and creates a still space that enables you to truly listen without the mind interfering.

You are giving the other person space,

Space to be.

It is the most precious gift you can give.

Space to be.

When we're listening with our whole bodies,

This means things like feeling our feet on the ground and our sit bones really grounding ourselves in our bodies,

Being embodied,

Right?

Sensing the breath in the body,

What's happening as I'm listening?

Maybe I'm anxious,

You know,

About wanting to fix or something.

Maybe I'm anxious and my breath's kind of shallow.

So you can notice,

Is the breath relaxed,

Restricted,

Tight?

Maybe it's relaxed and you're really open and listening.

You can notice that too,

Right?

We can also sense whatever emotions might be flowing through us and just noticing them without again needing to act upon them.

It's okay to be anxious without needing to get up and fix,

Right?

It's okay.

Just feel anxious listening to it.

You might even say it.

I'm feeling anxious listening to this.

This is I feel fear,

Whatever it is.

We're also noticing,

Again,

Our thoughts,

That second conversation that we're having.

And just like in meditation practice,

When we return to the breath,

When we see this happening,

We just simply return to being with this other person and whatever they're saying.

Ah,

There I am having that conversation.

I'm going to return to what the person on the news channel is saying.

Put this other one aside,

Right?

And you know,

Just as we practice in seated meditation,

We're trying to do all of this with again non-judgment and curiosity and kindness,

Both for ourselves and for the other person.

Really important.

We are also practicing,

Since it's a practice,

Practicing relaxing,

Calming our bodies and our breath as we're listening.

Maybe notice,

Noticing when we feel like running and try to re-relax,

Re-relax.

We also practice,

Again,

Really focusing and concentrating,

Just like we do with seated meditation.

You know,

We try not to fidget or multitask or walk around or into another room,

You know,

Or pick up our cell phone or play with something on the table if we're sitting with someone or throw things in frustration or punch our fists or heads into the walls,

Right?

Try not to do that as well.

We also practice making eye contact and not looking around or at something else and allowing ourselves to stay and feel the possible uncomfortableness of that and,

You know,

The intimacy that can arise with eye contact.

It's really hard to do and so you can just start to practice that way and see how your listening changes when you make actual eye contact with someone.

Then when we do speak,

If we've been investigating our own minds and hearts and bodies,

We're going to be better able to consider our personal need to speak,

You know?

So besides our guru piglet,

Gandhi also once offered some very wise words on this,

Which was speak only if it improves upon the silence,

Right?

So wise.

So when we practice deeply listening to ourselves,

We are also going to be more aware of our own needs and beliefs and our wants and to,

As always,

Question these,

Question them,

Okay?

For instance,

If we've been practicing listening to our bodies and hearts,

We're going to be able to better recognize our own emotional state in the moment.

So maybe we're just really tired and we'll be aware of that if we've been investigating and present,

You know?

Maybe we're suffering from pain that is difficult or it's irritating us.

We're in pain in some way.

Or maybe we're emotional.

Maybe we've had a bad day.

We're sad or grieving or angry or frustrated.

Really hard to listen,

Isn't it,

When you're in that place.

So it's good to know that.

You might also maybe just have a major busy mind from maybe a long day or a really busy week.

And we can know that and maybe say that,

I'm really having a hard time listening right now,

Instead of just not listening,

Right?

Because of this.

Know it.

So it's helpful to be aware of this so we know to first question our beliefs because,

Again,

These are so affected by our emotional,

Mental and physical states.

Remember kindness for ourselves first as we're listening,

Kindness for ourselves.

And again,

To know how to kindly excuse yourself if you're just not in a good place to listen.

People are going to respect that more than you just nodding or going away,

Right?

Even my pets know,

Don't they?

When you've sort of stopped petting them,

You're still petting them but you're not present.

They know,

Don't they?

People know,

Right?

So we can also recognize this and just bring ourselves back to listening as best as possible to being present.

Finally,

I read a really powerful piece of writing this week by the Genghian psychoanalyst and author Marian Woodman who wrote about how profoundly our kind listening and presence can affect the lives of others.

I'm just going to read some of it here.

She wrote,

I can tell you the number of people,

Men and women,

Who have sat in my office sobbing saying nobody ever saw me,

Nobody ever had time to listen.

So I am an unlovable,

The saddest word in the language.

Ask yourself as a child,

Who saw you?

Who heard you?

Was there anyone with whom you could be totally yourself and to whom you could trust your heart responses and speak your soul responses?

Someone who made you think,

Gosh,

I am somebody.

They're happy that I'm here.

To me,

Real power is presence.

Power in the sense of controlling somebody else is different from personal presence.

That kind of power does not value other people.

Love,

She says,

Is the real power.

It's the energy that cherishes.

The more you work with that energy,

The more you will see how people respond naturally to it and the more you will want to use it.

It brings out your creativity and helps everyone around you flower,

Your children,

The people you work with.

Everyone blooms.

Everyone blooms.

So let's end with a little meditation I'd like to offer.

So just taking a nice deep breath in and deep breath out with a willingness again to listen to your own heart.

And for this meditation,

I'd like to invite you to consider,

Is there some issue that maybe someone wants to talk to you about that you just don't want to listen to?

Maybe something you feel like you want to run away from whenever it's mentioned.

Or maybe it's something that you would like to talk about to someone,

But you're in some way avoiding that conversation.

This might even take the form of a conversation you need to have with yourself that you've been avoiding.

What conversation have you been avoiding in any way?

You might notice what happens to the body and the heart when you consider this topic of conversation.

Not even notice any feelings that you might name around this avoidance.

If you'd like,

As always,

You can place a hand on the heart or both hands on the heart,

One hand on the belly,

Whatever works.

What would it be like to simply stay rather than flee from this conversation?

Would it be possible to stay with the sensations or emotions that might arise with as much kindness,

Compassion as you can generate?

Would it be possible to stay and listen?

What might the outcome look like if the seed of intention was to connect,

Communion,

Community,

To create a sense of mutual understanding,

A kind of attunement?

Then this could be within yourself in your own heart.

Might even hear the words,

I'm listening.

What happens when you hear the words,

I'm listening.

I'm listening.

What might the outcome look like?

Finally,

With the eyes still closed,

Just listening to these words from William Stafford,

Who writes,

Next time what I do,

Next time what I do is look at the earth before saying anything.

I'd stop just before going into a house and be an emperor for a minute and listen better to the wind or to the air being still.

When anyone talked to me,

Whether blame or praise or just passing time,

I'd watch the face,

How the mouth has to work,

And see any strain,

Any sign of what lifted the voice.

And for all,

I'd know more.

The earth bracing itself and soaring,

The air finding every leaf and feather over forest and water,

And for every person,

The body glowing inside the clothes like a light.

God is a Benjaminatchett.

.