67. Staying Centered: How To Avoid Being Dragged Into The Emotional Turmoil Of Others

A true spiritual person is somebody who knows that the only arbiter of whether I am okay or not okay is me.

Sometimes we look at people and we're like,

Wow,

They're around this crazy personality and they can navigate well.

Why is that?

And some of these people aren't even really spiritual that I see being able to do this well.

And what it comes down to is really knowing the self,

Appreciating themselves and say,

Okay,

I'm going to put this,

I'm going to give it the right amount of space and energy that it requires.

Welcome to the spiritually hungry podcast episode 67.

The long order episode.

All right.

Excited,

Excited,

Excited for this episode.

I'm excited to spend some time with you.

I'm excited to actually be feeling a little bit better this week after the surgery,

Whatnot.

All right.

So here's the question of the hour or as you desire it,

The half hour,

But I'm never going to commit to that.

How do we maintain equilibrium in the midst of alarmists and emotionally fraught situations?

In this episode,

We will share some tips on how to stay centered and avoid being dragged into someone else's emotional turmoil.

So as I said,

I'm excited and I think partly because I'm really excited about this story that I'm going to lead us off with here.

Okay.

I know how you love it.

I hope it has a happy ending.

So I didn't write this one.

I didn't write the other one either,

But this is a famous story.

So you probably did not read it in your childhood cause I think yours was slightly different than most.

It is the children's fable,

Chicken little,

And it's also more aptly,

I think known as the sky is falling.

Do you know that story?

Yep.

Okay.

So it goes like this for those of you who don't know or don't remember it.

You think there's anybody of our listeners?

I guess I wouldn't have- My mom.

Yes.

Never heard the story?

I don't think she,

Yeah,

I don't think that she read this one to me.

So chicken little is outside and acorn falls from a tree and strikes him on the head.

He's startled and fearful and he concludes that the sky is falling.

So off he runs shouting and one after another,

He meets all his friends and tells them the sky is falling.

Now this is my favorite part.

Cocky Locky,

Ducky Lucky,

Goosey Lucy,

And Foxy Loxy are all panicked as well.

They decide they need to go warn the king.

So off they go telling more and more people along the way.

And I remember actually when I was a kid reading the story,

I was like,

Oh no,

I was so worried that they were going to destroy,

Like what was going to happen?

Chaos- That the sky was going to fall?

No,

That these idiots were actually going to believe that.

So this is interesting because this is where the stories diverge.

In the modern interpretation of this tale,

They find the king and he says,

The sky is not falling and acorn hit you on the head and everyone lives happily ever after.

In the 1823 version,

It ends with all of them being eaten by Foxy Loxy.

The moral of the 1823 version was crystal clear,

Panicking and believing everything you hear could literally get you killed.

That's interesting.

I think so.

So the sky is falling,

Has become synonymous with the hysterical- By the way,

Completely off topic,

But- Well,

Thanks for that.

It always bothered me with Little Red Riding Hood.

Did you get reading a children's story where a wolf eats the grandma?

How about Hansel and Gretel?

All of them.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They were,

They're very dark and actually those are versions that were changed.

If you read the original ones,

They're really even much darker.

Miriam,

Our oldest daughter took a class,

I think it was her senior year in high school,

And she'd come home with the other version of the tales and she's like,

Why'd you ever,

I said,

I never read you that version.

Yeah,

Very dark.

So the sky is falling has become synonymous with hysterical or mistaken belief that disaster is imminent.

And Chicken Little has become a byword for fear mongering.

And I love this story because there's a lot of depth here.

So the first question is,

What is the first thing,

And it's not going to be a school lesson,

But what's the first thing that Chicken Little did?

He got scared and he told all his friends.

He needed other people to share his experience.

He was fearful and that's,

I think,

Our natural tendency,

Especially when we feel negative about something and we feel scared about something,

Right?

We want to,

And we don't,

I don't think for the most part,

I'm talking about healthy people,

I don't think they intentionally go and try to bring their family members or friends down the rabbit hole with them.

But when we are afraid or we are desperate or we are sad,

It's like,

Oh my God,

I need to hold onto something or I need to have this kind of like,

I need everybody to be here with me.

And the reasons for it in the agenda,

I think is different.

There's a myriad of reasons for that.

And I think that most people would say that there are drama prone personalities in their lives.

There's that famous SNL sketch that me and Miriam really liked,

Debbie Downer.

That's one that will never go away because it's always relevant.

It's always on YouTube if you want to watch it.

But I think where we're going to go here today is why do we allow that space in our lives,

Right?

Because it's a choice.

You get to choose your environment and what are some of the tips and tools to avoid or remove those people from your lives?

Of course,

Sometimes it's family members and you can't remove them,

Nor do you really want to,

But it's really how to navigate it.

And I think ultimately it's your consciousness about it and about how you spend your time and where you want to live your life.

Absolutely.

And scientifically,

I always find it intriguing how many of these ancient teachings find their way into modern science.

And really the first mention of this,

I think,

Is by a philosopher and psychologist,

James Baldwin in,

I think he wrote it 1897,

If I'm not mistaken.

He wrote about this concept that today is called emotional contagion.

Oh my God,

Get out of my head.

That was my next point.

Okay,

So I won't go too deep into it.

No,

No,

Go into it.

I'll just banter with you.

I love that.

I love when we do that.

Yeah,

Look at my paper because emotions are contagious.

Exactly.

And science has proven that now.

That when you are even unconsciously,

It's not simply if you sit with your relative and they tell you how terrible things are,

But even if they're in a bad mood and you're completely unaware of it,

You will pick up on that and it will be as contagious as a cold,

A flu or COVID.

Well,

Psychology Today says,

As a species,

We are innately vulnerable to catching other people's emotions.

Right.

And by the way,

They found that also chickens,

Primates and dogs also catch our emotions and catch the emotions of other animals.

Well,

It's called secondhand stress.

Yes.

But by the way,

It's also true for the positive,

Right?

Not just the negative.

Correct.

So I think if you begin with this truth,

Right,

It's a fact that being around somebody or people that are in a negative state of mind will absolutely,

Almost always,

I will say,

Because there are ways around that I think that's really the point of today's podcast,

Will influence you.

And sometimes you'll come out of a room,

You spend a half hour with somebody and suddenly you just feel down.

Yeah.

And you're like,

What just happened?

Yeah.

And it's not that necessarily,

But there are those cases where it's obvious.

They just told me about how terrible their lives are,

How terrible the world is.

But sometimes it's not even that,

You spoke about the weather,

But you just feel drained.

The reason can be is that they are in a negative state of mind and because of that,

You caught that from them.

Well,

I do want to just bring some research here.

They found that depression in a spouse frequently leads to depression in a partner.

The same holds true for roommates.

In addition,

Children raised by depressed parents are significantly more likely to be diagnosed with depression.

And I hope this was really,

Really interesting.

There's a study of infants in the research center at University of Colorado that discovered children whose parents are experiencing high stress levels are more likely to develop asthma and autoantibodies that increase the risk of diabetes.

Isn't that fascinating?

Yes.

Yes.

Because at the end of the day,

Our most influential factors in determining our evolution for better or worse are really the people we surround ourselves with.

Absolutely.

And not just that,

I think another element of this that we have to deal with in today's world is that the social networks,

And now it's so much in the press where they've known for quite some time that the negativity put forth by the billions of people on social networks,

Facebook and the like,

Influence us.

And interestingly,

I think it was around 2012,

Cornell University and Facebook did a study without letting people who were using Facebook know that they were in a study,

And to test this theory or this fact,

This truth that the information that's put in front of you,

The people in their state,

Their emotional state put in front of you,

Will influence your emotional state.

Interestingly,

Facebook and Cornell got into trouble for not letting the people who were in the study know that they were actually in the study,

And that of course leads into today's headlines.

Well,

I mean,

If you think about exposure therapy,

Right?

When you're exposed to anything,

It will influence you in one way or the other.

And I think far too often people think that they are more in control of what affects them.

And unless you're really,

Really working on that every single minute of every day,

Things come to you.

And for me right now,

I'm home a lot.

I'm working from home.

I don't have a lot of mobility.

And I think about this a lot.

There is nothing right now,

It's temporary,

That comes into my space unless I choose it,

Right?

I'm not walking on,

I can't go walk on the street.

There's a lot of things I cannot do and I'm not going to go into that right now.

But normally on any given day,

I run into or have conversations or exchanges or even pass by and you have a look from somebody from what,

30 people a day maybe?

Some are invited,

Some are not.

And of course that affects me.

And I said to this to you last night,

It's so interesting never being exhausted or never being stressed in the last weeks because I am very much choosing my environment very specifically because I need to heal.

But we don't approach life like that normally.

Right,

Right.

So I think the first very clear understanding for all of our listeners is the fact that we are absolutely influenced by the emotional state of every single person who's around us.

And those with whom we spend more time and the question than if therefore is,

Knowing that that is the case.

What are the things that we can do?

What is the consciousness,

The thoughts and the tools that we can use to not allow the negative state of those around us and often even the negative state of the groups that are around us to influence us in a negative way?

Well I think again,

First is to be mindful of how interconnected we are and how much really people affect us.

And I can give an example of kids.

We have four and we have older ones and I know that when my older kids might be in a mood or something's affecting them,

I am affected whether I want to be or not immediately.

Then I'll notice it.

I'm like,

Wait a second,

This isn't about and I'll be able to pull myself out.

But it happens automatically.

I've become very attuned to be able to identify it and then decide not to respond.

But it's something that unless you really,

Really practice this,

It just is an automatic response.

So I would say the first is really to focus your attention on what is important.

Because if not,

Your thoughts,

Everything's kind of hijacked.

And I want to ask you about this.

There was a letter that Ravash like said in it,

Or maybe it was an article,

He said,

As for me,

I do not feel obligated to participate in this misery.

And I think he was responding to somebody who asked him about his credentials in teaching Kabbalah or spreading the wisdom.

And by that basically is that wherever that person or interviewer wanted to take him,

He decided very clearly,

I'm not going to go down there.

So isn't it kind of just being more guarded,

And I don't think that's the right word,

But more selective about what you choose to respond to?

Absolutely.

And I think it begins with a very important spiritual teaching.

And that is that nobody should influence what I think of myself,

What I experience other than me.

Meaning naturally,

We live in a state where what other people think about me,

Say about me,

Influences whether I am okay with who I am,

Even as children.

So many children grow,

Of course,

Into adults that are seeking approval because they feel they never got approval from their parents.

For example,

A true spiritual person is somebody who knows that the only arbiter of whether I am okay or not okay is me.

And of course,

I would hope that the way you engage that is how much am I growing,

How much am I changing,

How much am I developing my altruism,

What we call our desire to share.

Hopefully our framework is the right one.

But once that is the case,

The only reason I should be okay or not okay with what I am,

Who I am,

What I'm doing,

Should be me.

And the fact that you,

Well,

You're my wife,

Right?

But somebody else or a family member is unhappy with me or has something negative to say or is even in a negative state,

I have to become strong enough and practice this enough where it no longer influences me.

But I want to challenge you for a second because most people don't know what they believe.

And when you don't know what your beliefs are,

Then your thoughts are in jeopardy because anybody can then hijack it.

So what you just said is that you need to be able to know who you are and know what.

Not everybody knows that.

So I think that that's the first place to start is to really ask yourself,

Do you know what you believe?

Sure,

Sure.

But I'm saying,

But I mean,

But that's- Well,

You're saying that's a given.

No,

Not a given.

I'm saying that's very important work.

And I'm sure there are other podcasts where we spoke about that.

But once we accept that,

That I need to know what I believe,

I need to know what my desire is for myself,

Who I want to be,

Who I want to become,

How I want to grow and so on.

I want my experience of life to be.

Exactly.

And all that hopefully has a spiritual foundation and is the best it can be at this point in my life.

So basically,

Hopefully you've been hungry enough to this point to have gotten to that state.

Of course,

Of course.

Of course,

If you don't have that,

It's hard to take the next step.

But once that is the case,

Once we come to some level and hopefully it's evolving all the time,

Understanding of who I am and what I believe and what I desire and where I want my life to go,

What other people think about me,

What other people feel,

Even speak about me,

Becomes less and less important.

And ultimately,

That's really who we want to be.

We want to be a person who holds themselves up to the correct standards,

Whatever we set for ourselves,

But are completely uninterested in what other people are thinking about us,

Feeling about us,

Saying to us.

And that is the first step.

If you don't start there,

Then of course you're open to the winds of everybody else's emotions.

Let me ask you a question.

And I agree,

Obviously,

100%.

And I know somebody like this.

She works for somebody who is very demanding and a little bit of an emotional terrorist,

I'll say.

And she works for her,

Right?

So I think that often people become so.

.

.

Especially if it's their boss,

Right?

So part of their job is to anticipate the feelings,

The desires,

The needs of the person they're working for.

But then you have to be careful not to empathize too much that you get stuck in their feelings and you're not in tuned with your own.

I think to a certain extent,

Again,

Depending on the person,

I think there are times,

As we know,

There's time for everything.

There's time for empathy and there are times when you should shut off,

Literally build a wall around yourself.

And I know that I practice this very often in different situations.

If I am coming in contact with somebody who I don't believe is in the.

.

.

And again,

These are judgments we have to make in a state that I want to be connected to,

Right?

They're depressed,

They're unhappy,

They're generally a down person.

And for whatever- A Debbie downer.

A Debbie downer,

Exactly.

My goal is,

Because assuming,

And certainly they're family member,

If there's somebody for reasons we have to be around,

You have to build some form of protection around yourself,

Which doesn't mean that you don't converse,

That you don't interact,

But you are very clear about the fact that this is not somebody whose energy,

Whose emotional state I want to be caught by.

By the way,

I think you think about Morton's Fork,

Right?

Where you have two paths you can choose.

Usually people think it's just two choices.

For instance,

In this case,

Either I just put up with it and I build that wall,

Which most people wouldn't know how to do that in a way that's healthy.

They'd probably just shut down and build a wall,

Which is not what you're saying.

I think we'll unpack that a little bit more.

Or they quit.

And quitting is not really an option because this person might help them with their career and it would be smarter to stay professionally.

So there's a third option,

Right?

Which is to become a person where you're able to see who you are,

Appreciate your own gifts enough,

Have enough respect and appreciation for yourself to say,

Okay,

I'm going to allow this person to influence me only professionally and all this other chaos that I see,

I'm just going to understand that it's not really real and it's their chaos and their illusion.

And I think there's very few people that can do that.

And that's why sometimes we look at people and we're like,

Wow,

They're around this crazy personality and they can navigate well.

Why is that?

And some of these people aren't even really spiritual that I see being able to do this well.

But what it comes down to is really knowing the self,

Appreciating themselves and say,

Okay,

I'm going to give it the right amount of space and energy that it requires.

Unfortunately,

We tend to respond overly strongly to the wrong kinds of things,

Especially things that are in our face,

Are explosive.

We all have people like that.

I've had different people in my life,

More not by choice I'd say,

That really demand that.

They're just so familiar and then they explode on you.

And it takes a while to really learn how to navigate that,

But it's completely possible.

Absolutely.

And necessary.

It's necessary.

Necessary.

And I would say it's interesting because I remember a few years ago I was working with a professional athlete that was on a very famous team and they were going into the playoffs and we were having these conversations.

You know how,

And as many of us know,

In all areas of life,

But even in professional sports,

The emotional state,

The consciousness state- For extreme athletes you're saying?

Is as important as physical preparation because you look at athletes- I mean,

I think extreme,

When you're at an extreme level at any state,

Athlete,

Job,

Whatever,

The mental is more important than actually the- Exactly.

Because you can have the same person in the same physical shape,

State,

But at one point they are a strong mental state and the other time not,

And they will perform completely differently.

Yeah,

Very good point.

So again,

They were going through playoffs and we were talking about this idea that I said if there's one thing that you can think about is think of yourself as a rock,

Right?

That strong,

Stable,

Unchangeable being that doesn't get pushed by the wind.

And this is the same thing we're saying now is that,

For all of us,

Is that when you are entering into a situation where for whatever reason you need to be there,

But the person that you are interacting with you know is either a gaslighter,

A negative person,

A Debbie Downer- Or really wants bad for you.

I mean,

There's that too.

Oh,

That's awesome.

Absolutely.

Or all of the above,

Sure.

And it's not as if they're bad,

But they're in lack.

I mean,

That's the reality.

Right.

You have to enter with a different thought process.

Not many of us are maybe naturally empathetic and naturally we like.

We desire to feel,

And which is often important to feel the people's pain,

In some cases not.

In some cases you have to shut that off.

In some cases you have to be a rock.

You have to build that protection around yourself.

So it begins,

As we said before,

With clarity of yourself.

And this is,

Again,

This is really a life's work where we really come to a state where what is important to me is whether I feel that I am doing the right thing,

Whether I feel that I am living my life as I am meant to,

As it is the right for my soul to live it.

And there are less what anybody else thinks,

Says,

Feels about the way I'm living my life.

If you have that,

Then you can come into interactions with the Debbie Downers of the world and the Chicken Littles of the world and the family members that are in a negative state and not be swayed,

Moved,

Not catching the negativity from them.

The contagion.

Let me ask you a question.

Sure.

Have you ever been caught up in an emotion or become fearful because other people were afraid?

And what happened?

Yeah,

It's interesting.

I think it happens.

We have the blessing of being around people all the time in different capacities and being both spiritual,

Hopefully,

And empathetic,

It's relatively easy to feel a person's emotion.

I can walk into a room usually and know,

Okay,

This person's happy.

This person's disappointed.

This person is lost.

And just last week,

I would say probably a few times a week,

I'll be in a room with somebody and I can tell that they're in a negative space,

Whatever it is.

And I'm conscious of it.

And suddenly I say,

What's up?

I'm feeling something,

Even before I can pinpoint why.

And then this happened last week and I said,

Okay,

That's where he's at.

Honey,

Where are the juicy details?

The juicy details?

You want names?

I know what names I just want.

It's so generic.

I want to protect the guilty.

You can,

But you can make the story a little more interesting.

There was an occasion,

Somebody's celebration.

I'm giving you Loxy Foxy and Funky Monkey and Chicken Little.

And I'm like,

I walked into a beige room and there was a person.

I'm sorry that it's not as colorful as you would like it,

But I do want to protect the guilty.

So it was an important day for this person and it was important for them that I be there and I could tell that their energy was off.

And I couldn't tell if it was directed toward me,

If it was just directed about other,

Who knows.

And I immediately said to myself,

You know what?

This person's in that state.

Doesn't matter to me.

It doesn't.

Not at this point.

And I will be positive and I will be smiling.

Not acting,

Or sometimes you should,

Even if you're not feeling,

You should start acting in that way so that hopefully that becomes your internal feeling and you act that way.

And I don't know if it did or did not influence them.

And honestly,

It didn't really matter to me at that moment.

What mattered to me is that my state of mind remains healthy.

So I would say it happened to me last week.

It happens to me a few times a week.

When you're around people,

I'll give an example,

Another example without names.

Again,

In the morning,

Most mornings I spend with our community here in New York,

We make our morning meditations,

Prayers,

And connections.

And sometimes you walk into the room and you can tell some people are really sleepy,

Some people are sort of woke up on the wrong side of the bed.

Exactly.

And I see it as actually,

And this is also an important point,

As almost my responsibility to always be the most positive,

Not the most positive,

But a positive influence in the room.

I love that.

And I think- Well,

That's why you come singing in if I'm,

Because I was a little grumpy last week with my injury.

Oh,

I should have used that example.

And in the morning you're like,

La la la.

Almost I was like a little,

Because you were really overly animated and I knew why you were doing it,

But you've just articulated so clearly why you do that.

Exactly.

And you were like,

Well,

They connected it until this moment,

But you were like,

Zippity doo da.

I mean,

I don't like that song,

But you were like that chipper.

And I think that,

And I have noticed this as a theme in our relationship,

If I'm the downer I am,

The happier you are.

And actually it's contagious.

And then I'm like,

Okay,

You know what happens?

And then I look at you,

I'm like,

I actually want to feel like that.

So I'm going to just like,

I'm going to let go of this.

So it actually leads to a very important point related is that- By the way,

I want to hear you say,

But like walking into the room and the prayers and everybody's like low,

I love that your mentality is I'm going to be the light in the room or I'm going to be the source,

But you're also human.

Don't you sometimes want to like,

I guess sometimes you do,

Maybe you're surprised and everybody's super excited that morning and you feed off that.

I know you're saying you don't want to be dependent on it,

But it can also be a little bit boring or exhausting of time after time if you are- Of course.

Yeah,

Of course.

Of course.

But there's always a give and take in life.

And of course there are times when you walk into a room and people are excited and you're excited as well.

There's no static state,

But I think,

And again,

This is the point,

That those of us who understand our lives in,

I would say the spiritual context,

Which basically means that as a general rule,

The purpose of my soul in this world is to bring light.

What does that mean?

Happiness,

Joy,

Blessings,

Not just to myself,

Maybe even most importantly to other people.

And when you view it in that way,

Then you understand that your goal every single day,

Whatever room you walk into,

Whatever person you walk by is to bring light.

And light again,

To be clear,

Joy,

Happiness,

A smile- Energy.

Energy.

And to be,

We always talk about the fact that we are meant to be the creator,

Right?

The difference between being reactive or proactive or being the creator is the fact that to be the creator means that I am the one who's creating the energy in the room,

Not anybody else who's in a negative state.

And I think it's important that we really actively,

And I'll give you another example.

There was a distant relative- And now who's the storyteller today.

Exactly.

I remember we actually had this conversation.

So there's somebody who we both know and I won't go,

I don't want to name names,

Who's a very.

.

.

In life,

You often meet people who are often very happy.

Sometimes you meet people who are often very negative,

Some people in the middle,

But there are very few people who you meet that are almost,

Not almost,

Always negative,

Right?

And this person who I'm speaking of is always negative.

And every time I know that they're going to be around- I'm not even sure who you're talking about.

That's how much I don't see negativity.

Exactly.

Exactly.

And every time I know they're going to be around,

I literally go into this place of,

I'm just both excited to see what kind of negativity is going to come out of it.

Yeah,

You're totally entertained.

This is what's happening.

Entertained is the first thing.

And the second decision I make is that I'm going to be so positive in this room.

Why didn't you give me these cliff notes before?

You know exactly what- For you,

But actually I like that,

Let's take it to the next level.

I'm more like I'm going to be even,

But this is a game changer.

Yeah,

Yeah.

I'll be entertained and I'll be very,

Very more positive.

More positive than usual.

I'm going to be like,

Yeah,

Mr.

Bubbly,

Mrs.

Bubbly.

Yeah.

Do you want to ask me a question?

I do.

Well,

I actually was going to ask you that question,

Which is,

Can you share a time that you were influenced in,

I was going to say a negative way,

By other people's emotions or words?

I feel like that was my whole life before Kabbalah.

But I do want to share something that was a shift for me this summer.

My mom had to go through a procedure and when she was getting the news from the doctors of the different ways to go about it and different options,

And of course,

As we found with finding my surgeon,

You go through a whole process of interviews and finding the surgeon who you're comfortable with,

Who has the best experience,

A bunch of factors.

We were abroad at the time and so I had just enough space to hear her,

But not to be brought into it,

Into her emotional state.

And rightfully so,

It's a very emotional process which she was going through,

I completely understand.

But this was the first time because we were traveling and reception was spotty in different places,

She would get a response from a doctor.

She'd have a really bad reaction to it,

Really,

Really bad.

And normally I'd be like,

But it's not making sense what you say.

And I'd be afraid that she would actually do the thing that she said she would do,

Which was against what the doctors are suggesting.

But because,

Again,

Of having just a little physical space,

I could implement what I always wanted to do,

Which was not take it seriously.

And I thought about it,

I was like,

She's just having a reaction.

And even if it's,

With total respect,

I'm saying this,

Immature or childish or having a tantrum,

Which we all need to have sometimes,

Right?

She's having a reaction to something she needs to do and doesn't want to do.

And normally I would just jump in on that and try to fix it.

She's like,

No,

No,

This is going to pass in 24 hours,

Maybe 48.

And sure enough,

I would wait that long.

I'd be like,

So did you decide whatever?

Totally different person,

Totally different outlook.

So I think very often,

Especially with the ones we love,

We want to be there to support and to help and to save and to protect.

And what happens very often is we get dragged down into their emotional turmoil because how could you not when it's that extreme,

Especially if the stakes are high?

Sometimes they're not,

But especially when they are.

So if we have the time,

Of course,

Sometimes we don't,

But for the most part we do.

We're able to remove ourselves and say,

Okay,

What would this look like?

I'm not going to react at all.

I'll hear,

I'll even empathize,

But completely not get emotional about it.

It changes everything.

That was a big thing for me.

And I think I can make it stick.

Nice.

There's one other element of this,

Which I think is important.

And that is,

So we've spoken about a few ways and tools not to get swept up by other people's emotions.

But I think it's important to ask the question,

Why am I experiencing this?

Why is this person in my life?

Why is this family member in my life,

Even if it's only occasionally?

And the understanding is nothing is by coincidence.

Every person and every situation that's in my life has a purpose.

And for the most part,

The purpose of these interactions and these people in our lives is to help us grow.

So I think it's important to have that view,

Which therefore means that it's not just,

Okay,

I'm in a situation I don't want to be in.

What are the tools that I can use to get by or pass through in a more positive way this negative situation,

This negative person?

Really flip that thought,

Which is,

No,

If this is my relative,

If this is the person who's in my life,

My boss,

My coworker,

There's something that I am meant to grow and change.

And at the core,

I think it goes back to everything we spoke until now.

I am meant to become stronger in not being influenced by other people.

So when this happens next,

Rather than saying,

Why am I around this person again?

Why is my boss being so negative right now?

Say no,

There's a reason why it's happening.

Why they're doing it,

That's their whatever,

They're moving.

But I need it,

I need this growth.

And unless we are constantly challenged in this way,

We won't become the strongest version of ourselves.

We won't become that rock that we spoke of before.

So I think it's important to embrace the negative people in our lives.

Again,

There are certain people who we can say,

Okay,

This person is so negative all the time,

Maybe I'll excise them completely from my life if I can,

Maybe I'll just see them once a year or twice a year.

All those are important decisions to make.

But those people who are in our lives,

Those negative people that we do come across,

Let's not view them as the enemy or just an unfortunate reality,

But rather as an exciting opportunity.

This person just said something really negative about the state of the world,

For example,

Because I need to become stronger and I'm going to use this opportunity to become stronger.

And actually you asked me another story and I can tell you the details.

Although I do think I might've shared this in one of our previous podcasts,

But I remember this is a few months ago,

I was driving down the street,

I was in the left lane and there was a truck in front of me and it didn't have its brake lights or its hazard lights on.

So I assumed it was just waiting for the light and I'm in the car behind it.

So like two minutes go by and there's a lady in a car behind me,

She's honking,

Starts honking at me.

And then she comes around and she rolls down a window and starts yelling obscenities at me.

And I'm like,

Okay,

That's interesting.

And then I realized that the truck in front of me was just completely off.

So he wasn't waiting for the light.

He was just stopped and I had stopped behind him and then she thought that I was being an idiot for not passing him or whatever.

So I remember the first second,

I'm like,

I don't know if the word is offended,

But I was like hurt a little bit as she started cursing at me.

And I said to myself,

You don't know this person.

You are never going to see them again.

So what difference does it make that they think you're a complete idiot?

But unfortunately because of our ego,

We are naturally very sensitive to what people,

Complete strangers that we will never ever see again think about us.

Certainly that is true about family members.

Certainly it's true about people who are in our lives,

But what is the purpose of our life?

The part of our spiritual development is to get to a state where we every day care less and less and not about certainly about what strangers think about us,

But certainly what even people in our lives think about us because I am that rock and I am the arbiter of what is right and what is wrong for me and what other people feel,

Think,

Say matters less and less every day.

But we need the challenges.

We need those people in our lives.

I needed that lady to come around me and curse at me because I needed to grow and become that much more of a rock,

That much more confident and certain in my own decisions life as we said before.

Yeah.

I mean,

I love that story too.

You did say it before because it's not just like most people go to dark places like,

What did I do to deserve this?

Did I piss that person off in the past life?

You're just like,

I just needed to exercise this muscle of just really not caring.

And I love that.

And it reminds me of a story I've actually never shared.

I told you,

But it's so apropos because basically what you're talking about is our old friend negativity bias,

Which is we believe something negative faster than we believe something positive.

Right?

Pretty woman,

Right?

She said it really well.

Julia Roberts in that movie.

We react more strongly to negative stimuli.

We respond stronger to negative events versus positive ones.

We're very vulnerable to negative information coming from others and it takes less evidence and less people to convince us of something negative.

And it's just crazy when you put it out there like that.

But I remember a few months ago I had parked and it was a Friday.

So I had parked in a space and somebody else had parked in front of me.

So I parked and by the time I went back to the car,

It was Sunday.

And I got there and I wish I had taken,

I think I sent you pictures.

I must have them somewhere,

But not exaggerating.

All over the front dashboard,

The side windows,

The mirrors,

The doors,

The hood were Post-its,

Yellow Post-its,

Paper that was taped from a notepad,

Eight by 10,

All over berating me.

Now I don't know who did it.

They don't know me.

And they're like,

You are the worst driver.

You are selfish.

You are,

Do you think you're so important that you would take up two spaces?

I mean,

Any scenario that they could imagine,

They judged beyond that I parked like that because I,

Whatever reason.

In truth,

There was a car in front of me and I parked where I could park based on the car in front of me and behind me.

But when Sunday came,

Those cars weren't there.

My car is only there.

And so they assume that I just parked like a jerk.

And I remember as soon as I read this,

First of all,

I felt shame.

I was like,

Oh my God,

I got to get these off my car right away.

Turned bright red.

And then I saw those Post-its in my head flash before my eyes the entire week after.

Now why?

And we were talking about this.

I think I told you and the kids,

That was it.

And I was like,

It is so stupid that this bothers me.

It is,

I don't even believe,

None of this is true.

I know what I did.

But the fact that it kept flashing before my eyes spontaneously throughout the day for an entire week just proves the point.

Unless you get a hand,

And I'm happy it happens.

I was like,

I'm not,

Again,

I needed that to reconfirm and reestablish that I am not going to be that person that cares about a phantom.

I don't even know who did it and they don't know me.

Exactly.

So I think what we're saying is that actually in the proper context,

Embrace the Debbie Downers,

Embrace.

But don't give them too much space.

Of course not.

I'll give them zeros.

No,

Embrace the opportunity that it's presenting.

You don't embrace them and you certainly should not be at the receiving end of that.

There's no reason for enduring that over long periods of time.

For sure.

Do I have time for a joke?

Yes,

I love jokes.

Especially off this Debbie Downer thing.

Yes.

So this lady goes to her hairdresser and she sits down and the hairdresser says,

So any plans over the next few days?

He said,

Yeah,

Actually me and my husband are going on vacation to Italy right after I get out of here.

She says,

Oh,

That's interesting.

What airline are you flying?

Oh,

We're flying Delta.

And the hairdresser is like,

Delta's the worst airline.

They're always overbooked.

The food is terrible.

I can't believe you're going on Delta.

Where are you staying?

Where are you going to?

She said,

We're going to Rome.

She says,

Rome,

I've been there.

There's nothing to do there.

I can't believe you're going to Rome.

What hotel are you staying at?

She said,

Well,

We're staying at the Pantheon Hotel.

She says,

Pantheon Hotel,

I stayed there once.

It is the worst hotel in Rome.

It smells and the rooms are old.

I can't believe you're going there.

Well,

While you're in Rome,

What are you planning on doing?

He says,

Well,

I wanted to go see into the Vatican,

Maybe see the Pope's mass.

He says,

What are you talking about?

There's thousands of people there.

You're going to be in the back of the night.

I'm going to see him.

It's going to be a terrible experience.

Anyway,

He finishes his work.

She gets out of the salon.

She goes on her trip.

She comes back three weeks later.

She sits down on the chair and the hairdresser says,

So how was your trip?

He says,

Well,

You're not going to believe it.

We went to Delta and like you said,

Our flight was overbooked,

So they had to put us in first class.

We were sitting in first class.

We had an amazing meal,

Amazing wine.

We land in Rome.

We go to the Pantheon Hotel and they just had just completed a complete remodel of the hotel.

The rooms were brand new.

They were beautiful.

The best hotel we've ever stayed in.

He says,

Oh,

That's interesting.

What did you do there?

He says,

Well,

You know,

Like I told you,

We went to the mass in St.

Peter's Square and as we were standing,

You were right.

We were all the way in the back.

We couldn't see anything.

One of the Swiss cars came and tapped us on the shoulders and said,

You know,

Every once in a while,

The Pope likes to have a few common people come to visit with him.

So you've been chosen today.

Come follow me.

We go in a small door and we go and we have a private audience with the Pope.

He says,

Wow.

The hairdresser is quite impressed.

He says,

And she says to him,

He says,

You know what?

She even asked me a personal question.

And the hairdresser says,

What was his question?

Who messed up your hair?

I like it.

I liked it too.

So I think to cover everything really is for our listeners to ask themselves,

Who is it you're choosing to spend your time with,

Your environment,

Who are you choosing to give energy to?

And I think some very basic questions to ask to kind of remind yourself of everything we spoke about today is do the people that you spend time with possess qualities that you wish to emulate?

Does your social circle inspire you to be your best?

Do the people around you live lives that light you up or make you ask for more out of yours?

And conversely,

Do you find the people in your life to be in a constant state of drama?

Do you have a friend that continually wants to gossip or is a friend group judgmental or unkind to others?

Take stock in the qualities and the people that you choose to be around.

Yes.

So let's say,

Understand that the emotional state of the people that you interact with,

Whether you have to or choose to,

Absolutely influences you.

And therefore,

Embrace the negative situations by knowing that you want to grow to become that rock that is uninfluenced,

But that you need to be challenged in these ways by the negative emotional states,

Negative words of people around you when it happens.

Not that you choose it,

Like you said,

But when it happens,

Understand that it's purposeful.

That the reason why I have to experience this person in this state now is because I need to become stronger and I need to become an individual who cares less and less about what those around me feel in a negative way and what those around me say and behave in negative ways.

And I think to add to that,

A big part is that you can feel another person's experience or pain and empathize with them even,

But you do not have to go down that rabbit hole.

You really can be able to see it and to feel it without ever becoming it.

And it is possible,

Like the story I said about the summer where just look at it,

See it through a lens of like everything is fixable,

Everything's a process,

And how do I want to participate in this?

Right.

And you have to practice,

Practice,

Practice.

So we did get a letter and actually I want to read this one because,

Well,

He wrote it to me,

But I was really- Oh really?

Am I not mentioned?

No,

He wrote your name in the Monica and Michael.

But it really inspired me a lot and it made me really happy actually to hear this.

So his name is Paul and he said,

I felt compelled to reach out after hearing how Monica dealt with her recent surgery.

I really enjoy your podcast and it's been a great way for me to connect on my commute to work each week.

I was particularly taken by how Monica asks the creator to work through the surgeon prior to the procedure.

I'm a physician who performs spine interventions in New York City and I've been a student of Kabbalah for 20 years.

I completed my fellowship in June,

Trained at very prestigious institutions,

Performed well over the required amount of procedures independently.

I passed all of my board exams.

However,

Before performing procedures,

I often find myself overcome with self-doubt,

Fear,

Et cetera.

I worry about hurting patients or not being able to resolve their pain.

First of all,

I love that he's so conscious and aware.

I hope that all doctors are this way.

Or at least the ones that we have to meet.

I often speak with mentors,

Colleagues,

As they assure me that this is totally normal for someone in the early stages of his career.

I have been spending a few moments each morning before clinic or procedures meditating.

During this meditation,

I visualize the 72 names of God and ask the creator to work through me and guide my hands,

Mind to help heal my patients.

At first,

I thought that asking for help somehow meant that I was a bad doctor and that I should be purely reliant on my training,

Clinical acumen,

And treatment guidelines to provide excellent care to my patients.

I cannot tell you how refreshing it was to hear your perspective as a patient.

I particularly appreciated how you pursued the provider whose ego did not come through within your interactions.

As physicians,

We're often so perceived to know everything that it often becomes depleting,

Particularly over the course of the pandemic.

It's really nice to hear that patients ask the creator to act through their physicians while I am asking the creator to do the very same thing for me.

Please feel free to pass along any additional thoughts about your experience.

Thank you for doing what you do and providing a medium through which busy individuals can connect weekly.

So that really,

Really moved me and made me so happy at the same time.

Yes.

Really,

Really beautiful on many levels.

And I'm sure that our listeners will be inspired by this letter as well.

And again,

Really very practically- Also give me your card.

I'll be passing it along.

Whenever you are looking for any professional,

Certainly a doctor,

You do want to make sure that to the degree that it's possible,

They are asking the creator to work through them.

So thanks to Paul and his inspiring email.

We remind all of our listeners to share this podcast with as many people as possible so that they can be inspired as well.

Go to Apple Podcasts,

Give five stars,

Write amazing reviews.

Of course,

That are your true feelings.

Send all of your questions,

Comments,

Inspiring stories to monicaandmichaelatkabala.

Com.

These letters inspire us and I'm sure that they inspire the thousands of our listeners.

So please make sure to continue to send them in to monicaandmichaelatkabala.

Com.

Stories,

Questions,

Inspirations.

I hope you enjoyed listening to this podcast as much as we enjoyed recording it.

Stay spiritually hungry.

Bye.

I'll see you next time.