96. Becoming A Better Couple: 6 Ways To Rethink Balance

Very often we react to the secondary emotion because that's the one that we see,

Right?

But really what they wanted was to be heard and seen,

To be appreciated and understood.

When you can see what the real emotion is,

Then it kind of dissipates all of that other angst and feelings that are uncomfortable and separating really.

Welcome to the Spiritually Hungry Podcast episode 96 from Los Angeles and.

.

.

We love LA.

We lie of LA.

I was going to say like.

Oh,

We like LA?

It's great to come visit.

Yes,

Absolutely.

So we thought it would be fun to do a Q&A on relationships and we got some really great questions that you guys sent in.

So we appreciate that and we're going to have some fun.

Yes.

And this is an important moment to remind our listeners to continue to send in all their questions to monicaandmichaelatcabala.

Com.

Because as you will see in this episode,

We often get to read your questions and answer them and hopefully inspire others by it.

So please continue to share all of your questions and all different topics.

Well,

You're already giving them an assignment before you let them enjoy the episode.

Well,

They've had 95 episodes already to hear.

All right.

So I have a question that I'm going to read.

This is it.

You seem like you have a great relationship,

Monica and Michael,

Really inspiring.

But I have to know division of labor is one of the biggest areas of contention in a relationship.

It certainly is in mind where I feel like I have the overwhelming burden of the day to day household labor.

Do you ever argue about who's going to take something to the dry cleaners repair shop,

Pick something up by the groceries,

Order batteries,

Light bulb,

Shampoo,

Or who is going to clean up a mess the kids or the dogs made?

How do you agree on the division of labor of who is responsible for finding interviewing and scheduling the lawn people repairman tutor or housekeeper?

Is it really effortless or do you have moments where you feel like you're doing more than your fair share?

If so,

How do you reconcile that?

Or if not,

How do you divide the work effortlessly?

Please share.

Good question.

So I had a little chuckle with the lawn work.

Why are you not doing any lawn work?

Neither are you,

Friend.

No,

But who's arranging it?

Yeah.

So that's a good question.

I think it's interesting when a relationship works,

Usually you find a way to divide up the work and often,

You know,

I think I'm using ourselves as an example.

I think there are things that naturally are easier for me to do for whatever reasons.

And there are things that are easier for you to do.

So for example,

Again,

When it comes to things around the house,

Usually I'm the one who takes care of it.

Be specific.

No,

Not like cleaning,

Organizing groceries,

Planning,

Scheduling.

No,

But repair light bulbs,

Batteries.

Exactly.

If anything breaks in the house,

Usually falls to me to,

You know,

Not do it myself.

Well,

You just enjoy it more,

Sweetie.

It's really an act of sharing.

No,

That's true.

I get what you say with a straight face.

I think you say that to yourself.

But the reality is that on the whole,

It feels balanced,

Right?

Even though there are things that are my responsibilities and things that are your responsibilities.

And we haven't,

I don't think we've ever sat down and had a conversation about it.

But I think if your relationship is balanced in other areas,

It'll wind up being balanced in this as well.

If it's not,

Then this will be one more place where it's not balanced.

A hundred percent.

But I think to really help our listeners,

We have to rewind back,

Way,

Way back to the early days of our marriage,

Right?

We're going into 25 years.

But I remember at the beginning,

You weren't as involved in these kinds of things,

Nor did you care.

Well,

It was just the two of us.

It was hardly anything to be involved in.

No,

But even in the first child and the second.

And I think that what happened is.

.

.

The first,

What did you say,

Child?

The first child we had,

The second child,

The third child.

Because I did change a lot of diapers.

Now,

My point is that I think in the beginning,

There were certain things that you just found not to be important or they would be taken care of,

Or if they weren't,

Was it a big deal or eventually you'd get to it.

And then I think that the busier that I got and the more that we both started working together on different things,

I think there was like an appreciation also for the things that I did.

And I think you became more of a partner in that way.

I think that's one.

I think also it's just emotional intelligence.

I don't think when we first got married,

Did you understand how having like a long added to do list of these things that I don't want to do either be only on me added stress?

I just think you became more aware in that way.

And then of course,

Being the conscious person you are that really is trying to constantly change,

Then you notice those things and you also met me there,

I think.

Right.

And I think it's an important point to bring up is that we have,

And I'm sure you even more than I have been in conversations with partners,

With couples where this comes up,

Right?

Why do I have to always do whatever it is?

Why?

And I think that can often be seen as an effect of something that usually,

Again,

It could be just the one time argument,

But usually it's an effect of a lack of respect in the relationship.

And I am often,

Not often,

I'm sometimes surprised at things people allow themselves to be doing in the relationship.

I mean,

We might even have shared this with some of the podcasts where there are some often men,

I would assume,

Who expect when they come home,

Their wife has cooked for them or has their.

.

.

Have you ever cooked for me or is they're laughing?

We cook together.

Yes,

We cook together.

No,

I've toasted bread and made eggs and things.

Yes.

But the point is that that is sort of a secondary effect of the fact that the relationship probably isn't balanced and that there isn't real respect from one to the other.

Exactly.

And also,

I mean,

I know many couples,

There's one couple in particular,

But he really thinks that she should do all of that.

Like book the airline,

Hotels,

Menus when you try.

.

.

I mean,

Like detailed stuff,

Because at the end of the day,

He thinks what he does is more important than what she does and how he spends his time,

The money he brings in,

How he provides.

But that's so dangerous because that builds resentment.

It doesn't mean that she's meant to then do everything you want because you think she should.

I mean,

That's like the beginning of the end,

Really.

I do want to add a caveat though,

Because I've also seen the other side of this,

Which is relationships where one of the partners is actually doing most of the work and the other partner is not really doing that much or doing significantly less.

And then I was having a conversation with the student and there was a big life decision they were needed to make about where they were going to live.

And he was like,

You know,

It's my wife,

It's the home.

Even though I don't agree with the decision to move to another city,

I'm going to do it because it's sort of her purview.

But I said,

No,

I don't agree with that's true.

I said,

Number one,

First of all,

And this is again,

Hard to gauge,

You are the one who is actually more spiritually awakened,

More conscious,

Number one.

And number two,

It is true,

You're the single breadwinner and you're doing most of the work for the family.

I don't think it's right in this situation for you to say,

You know,

Because she wants we're going to do it.

So it's interesting that this can go both ways.

And I've seen it go both ways.

That's different.

That's not a sharing of responsibilities.

Right?

That's,

No,

You have a real point there.

It's a false view.

But it's my point,

My point,

It's a false view.

And again,

It's probably less than the other,

The first group,

Which is,

I would unfortunately say usually husbands not respecting what their wives do.

It's probably the bigger group.

Or a wife also.

Or a wife not respecting the husband.

That's also true.

Or a partner.

Yeah.

But the second does happen though,

Where,

Where a person gives up,

Be it the man or the woman or the partner,

They give up decision-making for example,

In certain areas,

Because I think it's the right thing or they don't want to argue about it or other reasons that aren't,

I don't think valid.

And I think the bottom line is for both,

Right?

Because I think the most important part is that these should be,

I don't want to call them warning signs,

But sort of important moments of reflection.

If you're in a relationship,

Whichever side of it,

Where there is a lack of a sense that we're both shouldering the,

I don't want to get,

Burden is not a good word,

But shouldering the responsibilities of this life that we're creating,

Regardless of what each one's responsibility is.

If there is a sense that that's not balanced,

Either because one is sort of being thrown all the,

All the responsibility where the other is given all the ability to make decisions,

Then to me that is an indication of a greater issue,

Which is that there isn't a balance in the relationship.

Right?

And I think the other part,

Which you touched upon,

Is the respect.

I think that if you don't respect or appreciate what your partner brings to the relationship or does or their time,

Nobody's time is more important than anybody else's.

You might have conversations about how you spend your time and what's important,

Right?

That's something else.

But still that expectation,

I think,

Is very unfair.

And that's,

You know,

Again,

A lot of people go into relationships and they think certain things are only for a woman to do or some things are just for a man to do or,

And all of that,

That has to really be thrown out the door when you start a relationship and see what works for both of you.

Right.

And that will require many conversations and.

And also to be honest with yourself,

Because again,

I don't,

I'll use this example only because it comes to mind,

But it's not,

I don't think it's the majority,

But I know certain situations where even a case where,

You know,

A couple doesn't have kids and the,

One of the partners is objectively doing more work,

Bringing in more money into relationship,

Then that's a reality,

Right?

In that,

So what that means to me,

And again,

I'd like to know your perspective on this,

Is that if the wife,

If something has to be taken care of in the apartment or the house,

I think the right thing is for the wife to say,

Okay,

I'll do it.

Like you're,

You're,

You work 12 hours a day,

Whatever that amount is,

You're,

You know,

And I'm basically home,

Not doing very much more leisurely.

Of course I should be the one taking their responsibility as opposed to a person saying,

No,

Everything's equal.

You know,

This,

A new responsibility came,

Came into our lab.

It should be divided equally.

Well,

But be honest with yourself about the totality of your lives together,

Who is actually doing more for the benefit of this relationship.

And it's not always 50 50.

It's not always 60 40.

But if it's skewed clearly one way or the other,

I think the,

The,

The honest and the,

And the right thing for that person to say,

Okay,

I'll take this responsibility.

But that's dangerous because then on the weekends,

Let's say when whoever is doing the majority of the work comes home and they're tired and they don't want to actually participate in the house or do any heavy lifting and it's still just on the other person that is not working or is at home or that's still going to create resentment because you come together.

But should it is the question.

No,

But you come together and you decide to create a life together and build a home together and have children perhaps together.

Maybe some people don't want children,

But whatever it is,

Have a dog.

So if it has to be something that works for both people,

I have the conversation is I'm going to bring the money into the house and therefore this is what I'd like you to do.

They both have to agree upon it.

My point is you have these expectations that are never discussed that aren't really fair and it doesn't create connection because it's not about being right or wrong.

That has to work for the couple.

Right.

But I think honesty,

It's not a blanket saying that everybody should do 50 percent of everything.

No,

But I don't believe in those kinds of rules anyway.

I don't think,

I think everything's gray,

But it needs to be a discussion.

But also,

I think sometimes there's a lack of even internal honesty when it comes to this question.

Right.

I mean,

Again,

Just using the extreme example,

Well,

One person with a married couple,

No one is.

And one of them is the breadwinner and the other one lives a life of leisure.

Then clearly,

If the,

Again,

In my opinion.

But you're putting this in black and white terms.

It's not a life of leisure.

What is the other person doing?

Are they taking care of the house?

Are they doing the dishes,

Laundry,

Grocery shopping,

Making a home,

Cooking dinner that the other person expects?

That's a scenario you can create.

I'm talking,

I'm using specifically an extreme scenario just to make the point clear that,

Again,

Where the other partner who is not working is doing 20% of their day is busy,

Let's say,

Taking care of the apartment.

But the other 80%,

They do whatever they want,

Which is great.

That's a relationship that the two partners agreed to.

But then,

For instance,

When the water boiler breaks down,

I think it should be obvious that the person who's living a more leisurely life takes upon themselves that responsibility.

Not saying,

Well,

No,

We're married.

Everything has to be 50-50.

Right?

That's not in that case.

And this isn't sexist or because it could be a man or a woman.

This is not one where this is just about,

I can begin,

Because I and we have seen couples who are not honest with themselves about the balance of investment.

And investment,

I don't mean just emotional and love,

But just balance of investment into a relationship.

Yes.

And that needs to be there.

I mean,

Again,

I can share many stories of students I talk to,

People I talk to,

Where,

Again,

Their spouse has the ability to live a very privileged life because the other partner is spending a lot of time.

And then they get present for,

Why do you have to spend that much time working?

Well,

We wouldn't have this life if I didn't have that.

So I think it's important,

And this isn't something that is usually,

We'd like to see our own perspective,

Not the truth,

To really have a truthful understanding of the relationship on very practical terms.

Who is bringing more?

And if this person,

If this partner is bringing more,

Then the other should be more than willing,

Excited to do more.

And I use an example that we often talk about with our kids.

Clearly,

We've parented for many years,

They've been our kids,

We've been taking care of them.

And we often say,

We say this to them,

When we ask you to help with something,

To do something,

It shouldn't even be a conversation.

It should be obvious,

Right?

Because we have given you so much.

We continue to give you so much.

The few times or the times that we ask you to invest in some way or another to participate,

Of course,

It shouldn't even be a conversation.

Well,

It's the same premise in a relationship,

Right?

With children,

When they get to a certain age,

You want,

And if you're really doing it correctly,

I think,

You want them to shift the consciousness or the perspective of being a receiver,

Receiving from their parents only to becoming a giver.

It's the same thing in romantic relationships,

Because for the most part,

Again,

Unless you're already doing the spiritual work in our conscious,

When you go into a relationship,

Oh my God,

They make me feel so good.

I've never been so happy.

It's very much about what you're receiving from them,

Right?

And that's what you're paying attention to.

But that's dangerous also if at some point in the relationship and hopefully very early on,

You also are considering how much am I giving versus what am I expecting?

So it's the same concept really.

Right.

That's a very important point.

And I'll quote myself.

You're not going to let us get to a second question,

Are you?

We have six today.

Well,

I'm not going to get to six,

But this is something that I almost always say when I perform a wedding ceremony that in almost all traditions,

I believe,

And certainly in Judean Christian tradition,

At the marriage ceremony,

There's a sharing action,

Right?

The groom gives the bride a ring.

Often the bride also gives the groom a ring.

And I say,

We know everything that's done,

Certainly things that's sort of come down for thousands of years,

Has a spiritual reason.

It's not just a sort of a physical action.

So I always try whenever I do a marriage ceremony to explain what the spiritual awakening that we're desiring to bring in that moment.

So during the time of the sharing of the ring,

I say the following.

In our relationships outside in the world,

Some of them we are more sharing than we are giving,

Some of them we are more giving than we are sharing.

All of us have imbalanced relationships.

Every once in a while,

You come upon a relationship that's almost perfectly balanced.

You're giving as much as you're receiving.

Yes,

Exactly.

Oh,

You really said balanced?

I thought you'd give a lot more than I give.

But anyway.

I'm trying to make you look good.

Thank you.

But in a romantic relationship,

The foundation has to be the opposite of our nature,

Which is that,

And I point to the groom and I say,

From this moment on,

If you want this relationship to be an everlasting union,

You will first think about how you can share with your bride more than you want to receive from her and to the bride as well.

And this moment onward,

If your desire is first to share with your groom,

Then to receive from him,

Then this can be truly an everlasting union.

And like you said,

I think it's such an important point,

That is something that is not often even there in the beginning,

But certainly over time,

Unfortunately,

That concept dissipates.

So this is true in all areas.

I would say to our listeners,

Ask yourself the question,

Are you in a relationship where you both desire to share with each other more than you desire to receive?

And that basically will solve that.

That is the answer.

Well,

I will start the conversation.

Yes.

But if you can master that,

Then this is this.

Yeah.

Then it's solved.

Right.

So just to encapsulate everything,

But not everything,

But most of what we said,

I think that there needs to be,

There's probably three words,

Respect,

Right?

Again,

This is true in all areas,

But certainly when it comes to responsibilities and relationships,

It's unfortunate how often we see a lack of respect,

Right?

From one to the other.

What does she spend her day with?

What does he spend her day with?

There has to be respect.

Without respect,

Forget about how you divide up the housework.

The relationship won't be what it can be.

And check your expectations.

Well,

Yeah.

And related to that,

Second is truth.

Be honest.

And this is something that is very difficult for us to do.

I want him to do that,

But wait.

Right?

I mean,

You are one of her to do that.

Look at the totality of your relationship.

Who's doing what?

Is it even right for me to expect them to be doing this as well?

Or is it right for them to be expecting that if you truly respect,

And again,

If that's not there,

Start that conversation.

How do we get to a place where we,

And again,

I'll just repeat it again.

I am shocked at how many couples we see that at the core really don't respect each other.

They could be married for one year,

For five years,

For 50 years.

We've seen it all.

And if I would say,

If you feel that that's not true,

Start that conversation.

Again,

Regardless of,

Again,

Hopefully helping you decide who does what in the household,

If you want to have the relationship that you're meant to have,

Make sure this is a conversation.

How do we either come to respect?

How do we work on respecting each other more?

And so respect and then truth,

Right?

To really be honest.

And again,

We don't like to be honest,

But to really be honest.

Number three,

Make your relationship based on sharing.

But really ask that question.

These aren't necessarily comfortable questions,

But if you want your relationship to be what it can be.

You have to be honest about these questions.

So I have a question from one of our listeners.

My wife and I just moved to a new city and she hasn't made any friends and rarely leaves the house.

Before we moved,

She went out with friends,

Made plans and had a social life.

But now she's dependent on me for all of her social interaction,

Except for the hours she spends on the phone with her mom.

I'm trying to explore the new city and make new friends,

But she seems completely disinterested and I feel she is resentful when I go out to try to make new friendships and explore,

Even though I've invited her and she didn't want to go.

I've made a couple of friends and she gets really upset when we go out and don't invite her in parentheses,

Guy stuff,

Golfing,

Basketball games.

By the way,

We've been from golf.

Exactly.

I mean.

Yes.

Which she doesn't enjoy.

Okay.

She doesn't enjoy it.

How can I get her to go with me or encourage her to make new friends on her own?

I really feel like I need more context.

Like why did they move?

Whose decision was it?

Where did they leave from?

It does,

Because I don't think it's just about if she was very social before and wherever they lived before and now she's not.

That just doesn't make sense.

It's not like she suddenly changed her personality.

There's something else that is at the root of this.

So again,

Why did they move?

Whose choice was it and where does she feel stuck?

And I think even if we're not obviously going to get those answers,

But I would my advice would be to have that communication with her,

Really see what's behind the emotion that she's that he's experiencing.

The change,

Right?

The change.

Yeah.

That she seems shut down or not open and then she resentments.

So those are all that's what he can see.

But what's behind that?

What is she afraid of?

What are her feelings?

Does she have regret?

You know,

And see what's really going on.

That's a great point.

It's funny.

I didn't even think about that.

But as an opportunity,

Use this as an opportunity to get to know her more because I think.

And to become vulnerable with one another and to take your relationship to a whole new level,

The fact that you are now in a new place and it's a newness for everybody and one is thriving and one is not,

You don't like,

Well,

You know,

That's her problem.

It's really an opportunity to say,

OK,

How can we really grow together in different ways?

I mean,

What a great opportunity to think about it.

If she had her social life where they lived before and he had his,

Were they really even that connected?

Maybe it's shining a light on where the relationship is and where there's room to become even closer.

When we moved to New York,

You know,

You loved it right away.

You thrived right away.

Some of our kids did.

Some of them didn't.

And I certainly really struggled.

But you know,

I never made it about you.

And you also were very compassionate and thoughtful to how I was.

But at the end of the day,

You know,

It was my responsibility to figure it out.

And I did.

But but we talked about those things.

And I think if I couldn't have shared it with you,

I would have felt quite lonely.

And I think that if she's spending hours on the phone with her mom,

It's I think that's what that's about.

It's going back to what's really familiar and comfortable to her.

So I think that that's an indication that there's a need for this kind of conversation and unpacking.

That's a very important answer.

And I wanted to ask,

Can you think of the times that you've been helping couples or individuals in their relationships of a situation like that where there was an issue?

It doesn't have to be about moving where.

But when they went deeper,

They actually used it as a tool to get closer.

Because the beauty of your answer is that,

You know,

This this comes as a question,

A problem,

A problem.

Right.

He's.

Yeah.

Don't try to fix the problem.

Find out what's the cause of it.

What's behind it.

And actually use it as a way to get closer.

So I'm asking,

Can you think of quickly and not to put you on the spot of a situation where you were counseling somebody?

Yeah.

I mean,

There's one that comes to mind.

There's a couple that lives in the city and,

You know,

They have kids.

And so she stopped working,

Although she wants to go back to work.

But he's working a lot.

And then she's putting a lot of pressure on him.

You know,

A bigger place may be out of the city.

He loves living in the city like,

You know,

All of these things in the fights,

Like there was a long list when they came to see me.

And he felt a lot of pressure.

And he also felt like he like he said,

We'll do it.

I just can't do it right now.

So he felt like he was letting her down.

She didn't feel like she was hurt.

Right.

It was became all these things.

And at the end of the day,

It just came down.

That was my advice to them.

Like,

He wants you to see how hard he's working.

And she wants to know you're taking her seriously.

Like they couldn't identify that.

It was like,

Where should we live?

New York or Connecticut?

Where,

You know,

And they started fighting about everything.

I mean,

Really,

Like the first 45 minutes that they sat with me was like all the fights they've been having for the past year,

Especially during the pandemic,

When really it was just about those two points.

And once they realized that they were like there was it was gone.

There wasn't even an issue.

And it was like,

OK,

I can be patient for another year or two.

I'm also going to go back to work.

And it becomes this release of sharing once you identify,

Because very often we react to the secondary emotion,

Because that's the one that we see.

Right.

He's angry.

She's selfish or she's not considerate.

Right.

That's how they would have that couple would have described themselves at that moment in the relationship.

But really what they wanted was to be heard and seen,

But to be appreciated and understood.

And when you when you can see what the real emotion is,

Then it kind of dissipates all of that other angst and feelings that are uncomfortable and separating,

Really.

That's beautiful.

That's why you're so good at what you do.

That's really,

Really great.

And again,

Just to share with our listeners.

So what we're saying,

Not just about this specific question,

Because not everybody's in the midst of a move,

But whenever an issue comes up,

Especially those that are seen as sort of the big issue of the moment in the relationship,

It's usually not what is obvious on the surface.

Not if and again,

Not everybody has the opportunity to meet with you.

But if you can even just do this work between you and.

.

.

You can have an opportunity.

Yes.

But it's a very long waiting list.

But yes,

I don't want to discourage anybody from reaching out to have Monica's counsel on relationships.

But take the time to go deeper.

Right.

I think that's,

Again,

I said for me,

For me,

It's really a revelation,

Right?

The fact that because if they came to me,

Probably that's why you do what you do.

I do what I do.

If they came to me,

I don't think I would have gotten there.

I would have,

I think it's maybe it's the man thing to try to solve the problem.

You'd be like,

Well,

Maybe you can move.

In between,

On the border of New York.

But the point again,

But the point is,

But that's so true,

Right?

Because usually so often there's,

Even if it's a big one,

Right?

It's really something underlining it that if you really get to it and able to solve it,

You might not even,

In this case,

Need to solve what was the bigger issue that they came with.

Very,

Very beautiful.

The one thing that I would add to the answer is the fact that,

And we've spoken about this and it's something so important.

And the thing I like about these questions,

These are not just sort of the questions themselves.

They all have to do with larger themes in making a relationship everything that it can be.

And one of the issues that often comes up as it does in this question,

Where one partner unhealthily,

If that's a word,

Depends on the other partner too much.

Whether it's the social- Well,

To fulfill them and to meet their needs and build the emptiness or lack they may be feeling.

And it's completely unfair and it's not even attainable.

It's both impossible and a death knell to a relationship.

I think it's so important because again,

Going into relationships like you write in your book,

Rethink Love if you haven't bought it,

Make sure you buy your copy,

English,

Spanish,

Russian,

Portuguese,

And Hebrew,

Amazon.

Com.

I don't have to plug amazon.

Com,

I think most people know.

But if you go into a relationship with the thought,

Okay,

I'm so unhappy about this.

I'm sorry,

I don't have this,

I don't have that,

I don't have this.

I'm going to get into a relationship.

All that's going to be solved.

That is the wrong way to go into relationships.

It's the wrong pressure even to put on your partner.

You have to come healthy.

You have to come knowing,

Healthy,

I mean emotionally at least to some degree,

Knowing yourself,

Knowing who you are,

Knowing what you want,

Knowing what makes you happy.

Many people will not come healthy to a relationship.

However,

You need to recognize that way.

You have to recognize that it's your responsibility to be able to get healthy.

True,

True.

What percentage of the,

Again,

I don't know if it's a fair question,

Or if it's the right question,

What percentage of the couples that you see,

Would you say one or both partners came into the relationship not in that state of.

.

.

I don't want to.

.

.

Fulfillment or with a false,

What do you call it,

The Cinderella syndrome?

Yes.

What percentage would you say?

I think most of us are broken a bit.

And I think that.

.

.

Well,

Again,

Like you said,

It's not about being broken.

Everybody's broken to something.

But depending,

Overly depending on their partner to fix issues or problems that they should be working on themselves.

Yeah,

I mean that comes down to ego.

So I mean,

The thing is,

Most of the people,

By the time they come to me,

They want a spiritual approach.

So they are more open and they have an awareness,

Some push back more than others.

And then sometimes I'll have a couple where only one is really thinking in a spiritual way and transformative way and the other one's not.

And that's really when it's very difficult to get them back on track.

You mind again sharing,

Without giving names,

The story of somebody who came to you and you realized that the issue was not so much that their partner or their soon to be partner is not fulfilling their need,

But actually there's the work that he or she needs to be doing on their own.

Yeah,

It's really painful to see actually,

Because if the person could,

There's still love there.

Right?

And I always say this to people,

It's never about love.

Sometimes it is.

No,

Sometimes it is.

I've always thought they'd be to hate each other.

And there's so much years of resentment.

But I'm saying for the most part,

Even couples who've been married 20 years and it's still not an easy choice to get divorced,

They still do love each other.

It's just that they stopped liking each other or they stopped respecting each other.

They stopped appreciating each other.

Again,

It's about those things.

But this one couple,

The husband kept saying to her how he felt about himself and the relationship and how he felt belittled,

He felt unheard.

He didn't like the way she spoke to him.

And then every time,

And he really like at this point was coming from a place of vulnerability.

And she's like,

What,

You think you're perfect?

You think that it's just me?

And I kept saying,

That's not the conversation here.

If you really,

Because in this situation,

He was already like way out the door and she was not.

She was desperate for it to stay.

And I said,

I'm not picking on you.

I'm just saying that you're more invested right now and he's telling you exactly what he needs.

That's just not the right way to approach it.

But,

You know,

It was hard to get her there.

So I think,

Again,

To this question,

But again,

To probably the broader path to creating a relationship that can be as powerful as it is meant to be.

Both,

Again,

This is a great vulnerable conversation to have both together if you can,

Or at least it should begin each partner on their own.

What are the unfair expectations that I have of my partner?

Again,

Using this example,

Again,

Not knowing very much about either one of them.

Hopefully,

I would hope that the wife,

If she's thinking to herself,

She says,

Yeah,

It's not right that I build my entire social interactions based on my husband.

I can either decide I don't really want that many social interactions.

That's fine.

Or if I really do,

I should be doing something about it.

But to get upset,

Be resentful in some way,

Because he has so much social activity.

I don't have any.

He should be making sure that I know actually that's not his responsibility.

And I think you start there,

Right?

You start with that internal vision and then hopefully you come together.

Like you said,

I think it's so important.

Each one of these addressed in a loving way can actually be a powerful stepping stone to a more beautiful relationship,

Even if the problem isn't solved.

So imagine this couple sits together and they come from a place of honesty and they come from a place of vulnerability and they have this conversation.

And then he hears her out,

Of course.

Her pain,

Like you said,

Why,

Like your first answer to the question,

Why are you feeling this?

What are the deeper reasons behind it?

It probably has nothing even to do with lack of social activity.

And then second,

Okay,

I hear you and you've done the work and you realize it's not really my responsibility to fill your social calendar and make you feel complete in that way.

But what can I do?

And it's a completely different conversation than it's your fault.

You have all the,

You're going out all the time and I don't have anybody to go out with.

It's not fair.

Also it's important for each to express their needs.

The husband saying,

I really do enjoy time with my friends in a different way than I enjoy time alone with you in a different way than I enjoy time together.

It's about having those honest conversations,

Allowing yourself to really be that way with your partner so that you can have all the conversations you ever want to have.

I think I've been really aware in our relationship from the beginning that I wanted to make sure that we were growing parallel to one another.

Of course with each other.

But you know,

If I would see you push yourself to go do something,

I would pause and say,

Well,

I don't want to be left in the dust.

Can I push myself in that way?

Should I?

Do I want that for me?

And if I didn't,

I wouldn't do it.

But if I wanted it,

I didn't look for you to take me with you.

I didn't put that on you.

And I remember when we were first married,

You know,

I talk about cherished illusions a lot in my book and cherished illusions.

Yeah,

That was the other word.

And you know,

It's,

It's the illusion that each person comes into relationship.

We all have them.

And for some it's materialistic,

Whether it's a big house or,

You know,

A certain status.

For me,

It was that naively I thought when we got married,

I would automatically move to a higher level of elevation and spirituality just by marrying.

You did,

By the way.

You did.

But that's just so funny because that's the thing about illusions.

I mean,

And I,

And I cherish that one.

And I thought I would just ride on your coattails.

And I remember when it was shattered,

It wasn't damaging to our relationship because I didn't have an illusion about who I married,

Just who I would be in the marriage.

Right?

So I took responsibility for that and I was able to do something with it.

And you know,

The problem is many people,

Once the illusion is shattered,

They're left with broken pieces.

There's not much else left there.

That's a whole different conversation.

But I think to answer this one,

That's why it's so important that you check yourself.

You know,

What is it that you want?

And even if you see something in your partner that seems appealing and you want that,

Ask yourself why you want it and then take the responsibility to create and cultivate that for yourself.

So you said something quickly,

Which I think is so important.

I want to again call it out that you have to be growing together.

And you know,

Again,

You have these conversations with couples.

One of the partner gets involved in one thing,

Even in spirituality,

The other ones aren't that interested.

And my point always is it's not about whether you are or not interested in spirituality.

If you're part,

If it's something that's important in your partner's life,

At least be curious about it.

Because to say,

You know,

I'll be doing my things,

You'll be doing your things is not a path towards a growing,

Beautiful relationship.

And I'll use an example.

If your partner suddenly got into painting,

Right?

It doesn't mean that now you have to spend as many hours as they do learning and then painting,

But be curious about it.

Look at what they're doing.

You know,

Comment on it,

Show interest in that.

So growing together doesn't mean that we do everything at the same time together,

But it means that I am interested in you and I'm interested in what you're interested in.

You might be a lot more interested in it than I am,

But I know that I want to have a relationship that continues to grow.

And that means that I have to make sure,

And I would ask every one of our listeners right now,

If you're in a relationship,

And usually this often,

Usually when people are dating,

Oh,

You're interested in everything he or she has to say.

I would always like to see that reality where like,

You know,

I don't know if you know,

Sometimes on the,

I was listening to a podcast today where they say that the next level of technology was our brain,

You'll actually be able to hear,

Sorry,

Experience the emotions that actors,

For instance,

In movies are experiencing.

There's a way to get brains so connected where I actually know what the person.

So my point is,

Can you imagine,

You know,

When people are on a date and they're like so fainting,

So much interest in whatever it is,

But like to see like the real percentage of interest.

One of my sisters,

She was like,

She wanted to get married for a while and she's like dated all different kinds of people that like some of them had no,

They had nothing in common.

So I remember she was afraid of like the ocean and deep diving,

But he was a scuba.

He was really into scuba diving.

So she's like,

I'm going to do it.

I'm like,

What are you talking about?

You're terrified.

You're going to hate this.

She's like,

No,

No,

No.

So she went and got certified hours on a boat.

And then like,

I think there was blood in her.

I don't know what happened.

Of course she was terrified.

She hated every second,

But with him,

She was like,

It was the best day ever.

I'm like,

What are you doing?

But yes,

The great lengths we'll go to at the beginning.

But then after one year,

Five years,

20,

Whatever that number is,

If you're not,

So to our listeners,

Especially if you're in a longer relationship,

But even if not,

What are the things that I should be showing more interest in that they're doing?

Again,

It doesn't mean that the level of interest needs to be the same.

It's not because I'm interested in photography or in painting or even in the business that he or she is doing,

But I'm interested in that.

And if they're interested in that,

I want to know at least a little bit about it.

And I want to be interested in it.

And unless you're doing that,

Unfortunately,

As you can often see,

The relationship just not falls apart,

But grows to completely different places.

I do write about this in my book actually.

And I reference it in terms of responding to your partner's bids of affection.

And I think that that's one of the things we take for granted early on when you live together and especially if you've been married for many years,

You know,

Partner's always like,

Can you look at this,

Read that?

And you're like,

Yeah,

OK,

Later.

Right now,

I'm busy.

And I remember that I became very aware of that and I decided I was going to make whatever bids of affection you were offering a priority.

And the example I give in the book is,

You know,

I was I'd be baking in the kitchen late at night and the kids are sleeping and finally,

Like,

That's my time to be creative.

This is years ago.

I don't have time to bake right now,

But I'd have like my fingers full of cookie dough.

And I'm like in the middle of like and I have other things baking at the same time.

And you're like,

Monica,

From the office right next to the kitchen,

Like you come on to show you something and you're laughing whenever.

And I will always come and I hear it and I'll hear you because you took the time to stop what you're doing,

To want to share that with me because you thought I'd enjoy it.

And it was a moment of connection and to show that,

You know,

What you say matters.

And and so what my hands are full of cookie.

I can continue baking for the next couple of hours.

So it's like that kind of thing where you make your partner a priority and and you make them feel important or that what they're saying is important.

Beautiful.

I have another question for you.

Well,

No,

We're doing one more.

No,

We're not.

We are absolutely.

No,

There's no way.

No,

Absolutely.

We are doing it because we're going to do six.

We're going to settle on three.

It's a short question,

Honey.

It's very good.

One more question.

Let's do it next week.

We'll do three.

We'll do three more questions next week.

No,

Then we'll have to do four next week because we have six and then you won't let me do four.

Let me just see how short I think you'll answer this.

No,

Monica,

Why?

We're going to pass through it.

We've already gone over a half hour,

Which is what I want to because I like this question.

I think it's gonna make you uncomfortable.

Oh,

Good.

So ask it.

But we're not going to keep this in the next week.

No,

Then we're not fine.

You win.

You see listeners.

This is how it's done.

Oh,

They heard it.

Oh,

We're keeping all this.

Yes.

OK.

They did.

And we are.

This is how Michael gets his way.

I look really bad.

We're definitely keeping this money.

It's true.

No,

No,

No.

It's all transparent.

So sweet.

This is what our listeners want.

Behind the scenes,

Real time action.

So just a few.

I always like to recap sort of the answer because I think these are important understandings,

Not just specific to this question,

But in relationships.

Right.

So the idea that be open,

I think,

Again,

To me is like really a revelation,

Like what you said,

That often when you're having any type of situation,

Argument or disagreement,

It's not so often,

It's not about the situation.

It's these deeper emotions and use the situation to go deeper,

To be more vulnerable,

To understand and connect on a deeper level.

Very powerful.

Second idea that you should not.

It's a big mistake that is often made in relationships where the expectations,

Cherished illusions,

Mental syndrome,

Where one partner or both have an expectation that their partner is going to solve all their problems when that's never the case and really take the time to look inside.

What is my cherished illusion?

What are the things that I am expecting,

Depending and therefore maybe even angry at my partner,

Not fulfilling that even,

Not even their responsibility.

And third and related to that is to have that conversation,

To have that conversation about what are the things that,

And again,

Being vulnerable and using every both disagreement,

Every disappointment as a way to get closer.

And then I just would add that,

You know,

You can work through all of these things much faster and easier if you're also having fun in the relationship and you're friends and you enjoy each other's company.

And then it makes all of this other stuff that,

Yes,

You need to put energy and time into and you need to work through so much more pleasurable and positive and successful.

Absolutely.

So,

Because we haven't gotten to many of the questions and Monica is really,

Really excited about asking me one of them for next week,

We will continue next week,

The next episode with answering some more of your questions,

But let's take this opportunity to remind our listeners to go to Apple Podcasts,

Write five star reviews,

Share this podcast with everybody you know on your social media everywhere.

Continue to write your questions,

Comments,

And stories to monicaandmichaelatkabala.

Com.

And as always,

I hope you enjoyed listening to this podcast as much as we enjoyed recording.

Stay spiritually hungry.

Bye.