How To Teach Presence And Find Your Authentic Voice

All right.

Hey,

Michael,

It is so good to be here and see you.

It's good to be here.

Always good to see you.

You too,

You too.

So I've been really looking forward to this discussion,

Just two of us sitting down and talking about what it's like being a meditation teacher,

The journey getting here,

What the future looks like for meditation teachers.

And I think there's no one better to discuss this topic than with you,

Because you've had quite the journey.

You share these beautiful videos every day that just impact countless people.

I know you have millions of followers and you're the envy of all the other meditation teachers around.

Maybe we could just start by you sharing how you got to being a teacher.

Was this deliberate?

Did you fall into it?

How did you end up becoming a teacher?

Well,

It kind of goes back years and years and years from originally in another life,

I was a preschool teacher.

And so I taught two and three-year-olds.

I started out teaching gymnastics and then moved into being a preschool teacher in the classroom with the two and three-year-olds.

So working with separation and working with kind of taking these little minds and taking all of these complex issues of how to be a human and how to exist in this world and teach them to little beings who have never experienced any of it.

And so I just really gained a love for education and a love for teaching.

But I also knew that it wasn't my ultimate career.

It wasn't what I wanted to do for the rest of my life.

But the training that I got there,

The work with children really gave me this level of patience and understanding and ability to synthesize complex information into digestible bites.

And so when I moved away from teaching,

I moved into the corporate world,

Still working in early childhood education.

And then there was always this calling to take the mindfulness and the meditation that had been so helpful in my own life,

Dealing with anxiety and dealing with the stress that I was under.

And knowing the value of mindfulness,

Knowing the value of meditation,

And being able to put that into action was always kind of a dream of mine.

And so when the pandemic happened,

As with most people,

There was a pivot that had to happen.

The company that I was working for in the corporate world at that point,

Went out of business.

And there was this pivotal moment of,

Do I continue down this path and do the corporate world and live in that world?

Or do I launch my own business?

And so it was really a time where I decided that it was time to do my own thing.

And so I wanted to take mindfulness and meditation and bring it to the I knew that people needed it.

And so I enrolled in a teacher training program,

Went through that,

And through that,

It just gave me the confidence to be able to start to speak that into the world.

And so social media became a perfect outlet for this,

Where I started doing these micro meditations,

Which were under a minute,

Sometimes one to three minutes,

Either guided breathwork,

Visualizations,

Little mindfulness exercises,

And putting them out in just very simple,

Digestible ways,

Just as I used to with my preschool students.

And for whatever reason,

It took off,

And people started to follow.

And that kind of helped to build my career,

Which led to classes,

To one-on-one coaching,

To just really being able to live a professional life as a teacher in the world.

First of all,

I did not know you were a preschool teacher before this.

That does make sense,

Because you soothe my inner child every time you speak,

And I'm sure you hear that all the time.

Yeah.

Wow,

What a journey.

One of the reasons we're having this conversation is because we're going to be teaching a teacher training together in 2026.

What was it like making that transition into being a teacher?

Were you nervous?

Did you have any trepidation of,

I'm not ready,

I'm not good enough,

Do I know what I'm doing?

And do you feel like the training that you did got you ready?

It did.

And what was really interesting is there was a lot of fear.

And I remember teaching my first class,

And one person showed up,

And then my second class,

No one showed up.

And it was probably about six months of teaching,

And I was teaching in a studio in New York,

And I just couldn't get anyone to show up.

I couldn't get anyone to come.

But what was really great was that,

Because the stakes were so low,

Because there was no one coming,

I took it as an opportunity to just hone my craft,

To be able to practice,

And to be able to understand that that one person who was there was getting the best meditation class that I could give at that point in time.

And it was really special because I got to really understand from them what worked,

What landed,

What didn't land,

What was something that I could do next time a little bit better.

And so those months and months and months of teaching to no one ended up a year later when I looked and I did a live,

And there was like 10,

000 people in there.

And then there was like 20,

000,

50,

000,

And then there's a million people watching these things.

And it wasn't that I was a better teacher.

That wasn't why I was getting millions of people.

It was because I was taking the training that I had,

And I honed it,

And it didn't matter if I was teaching one person or to a million people.

The message was still the same.

The delivery was still the same.

And I had that training to rely on where I could understand what it felt like to guide someone through this.

And it's a real gift.

I think teaching is such a gift.

And so I'm excited for us to be able to really put this into a container for people so that they can continue to bring this to more and more people.

Yeah,

I agree.

I mean,

That shift for you happened quickly from zero to one to millions.

That is an incredible,

Incredible arc.

My first class that I taught on my own after I used to teach at a center in Hawaii,

But when I moved back to the East Coast,

And I started teaching on my own,

My first class,

Zero,

People showed up.

I'll never forget that.

It's a rite of passage.

Rite of passage.

I feel like it's an initiation.

And a lot of new teachers that I've worked with,

They're nervous about,

Is anyone going to show up?

And I do think like what you just shared,

Teaching to one person,

Two people,

Five people,

That is a great training ground.

And I always tell new teachers,

Get your friends together,

Family members,

Whoever it is that's willing to sit with you and practice,

Practice,

Practice.

And in our teacher training,

We do,

We have a practicum where the teachers in training can come and teach to each other.

So it's not as scary,

A place where there's no judgment,

And you just learn and fumble as you go along.

When you noticed that huge shift from like one student to thousands,

Did you notice like an energetic like shift inside yourself?

Was it overnight?

Was there something you changed about your style?

Did you just figure out an algorithm?

What do you think helped create that shift?

I think it was just getting over the fear of being seen as a teacher.

You know,

It's it's hard to put yourself out online,

Especially when you,

You know,

And the world is online right now.

And so social media is such a medium for good,

For bad,

For everything in between.

And I think once I was able to have the confidence that I built from doing those early sessions with no one watching,

And then say,

You know what,

I'm just,

I'm going to put this out.

I'm going to put out this little thing.

It was that hurdle of getting over the fear of being seen.

Where I recognize people,

People want to see this.

This is,

This is valuable.

And it wasn't,

I would say it's not,

It's not me.

I think that when you're teaching,

There's some element of things coming through you,

Not from you.

And so once you can just relax into it and allow for things,

What people need to hear to be heard,

And not have it be because you want to be seen,

Or because you need to be heard,

But because the message needs to come through you.

That makes a difference in people's lives.

And so when you can get out of the way,

And you can start to just let things flow,

That's when things start to grow.

Yeah.

It's almost like being a good teacher means you as the teacher,

Get out of the way.

I love that.

I mean,

I've always found this about life,

But have you noticed when you overcome some kind of energy internally,

Then externally,

Something begins to shift?

Totally.

And vice versa.

When I'm,

When I'm going through something,

Things in my life tend to shut down.

And it's almost like this protective bubble where it's like,

Oh,

Let's,

Let's just contain this for a minute.

Interesting.

So like when you're going through something internally,

You notice the external world maybe slows down,

Or there's not enough movement or traction,

Things don't manifest as easily.

Yeah.

And just trusting in that and knowing that like,

There will be times when things move incredibly fast,

And there's times when things move slow and just get out of the way.

And you're so,

Michael,

You're so good at helping people find a sense of compassion on that journey.

I think that's one of your strongest characteristics as a teacher,

That sense of like being curious and just looking at something and then and being compassionate towards yourself as it's unfolding.

And I've found,

And I'm sure you have too,

That students,

They're so freaking hard on themselves.

Every time they have an emotion that's negative or seemingly negative,

And they're struggling,

They pile on,

You know,

Self-judgment.

And I've noticed you do such a good job of that.

How do you help people find that compassion?

And are you able to give yourself that kind of compassion?

Yeah.

I mean,

I think I'm able to do that because I've been through there and know what it feels like to have that internal voice,

That negative,

I call it your gremlin.

It's that voice that's like,

You're not good enough,

You're smart enough,

You're not talented enough,

Whatever.

So I know very well what that feels like.

And I think the greatest gift that we get to give as teachers is the gift of being able to sit with someone to mirror what they're actually putting out into the world because they have such a false view of who they are.

And so when you can look at someone and say,

This is actually what the world sees when they look at you,

This is the beauty,

The brilliance,

The,

You know,

What you are not seeing.

And I'm just going to reflect that back to you.

And then there's this art of co-regulation that teachers get to do,

Where it's people come in and their nervous system is activated and you get to be in a calm space and work through some of the most challenging things in people's lives.

And just having them be near you while they're doing that,

While you're in a calm,

Regulated space,

That's where magic comes from.

And that's what I'm excited about,

You know,

Training a whole field of teachers to be able to do that and go out into the world.

And that's where a lot of good can happen.

I was listening to your podcast,

Letting It Settle.

And the other day with someone and within five minutes,

They started crying,

Listening to one of your stories.

And I was like,

Damn,

Michael,

You are effective.

And so for people who don't know,

You do a fair amount of one-on-one work where you're,

Like you were just saying,

Helping people move through some of these energies.

What have you learned over the years working with so many people?

Are we all the same?

Is it,

Do you see a similar pattern over and over?

And how do you walk someone through getting through an energy that they're so stuck on or so afraid of looking at or some grief they can't seem to process?

How do you as a teacher kind of hold their hand and walk them on that journey?

I think everyone thinks that they are unique in their own suffering,

And that no one else experiences life the way that they do.

And I think there's a uniqueness to how we operate in the world.

But I do think that there's so much common ground there.

There's so much.

And just being able to acknowledge what's going on for people,

When you can start to cultivate awareness in someone,

Where they can start to be aware of how they operate in the world,

And they're aware of what are the patterns that they have in their lives,

When they're aware of,

Yeah,

It makes sense that because of everything I've experienced in my life,

This is how I see the world.

These are the lenses that I filter the world with.

And once you give them that awareness,

And you start to validate it and say,

Yeah,

It makes sense,

Then you can start to give them choice in that moment,

Where they have the choice to say,

Okay,

I understand that's how I operate in the world.

Do I want to continue to operate like that?

Or do I want to make these subtle shifts?

Do I want to start to do the work?

And so that's what,

As teachers,

What we get to do is to acknowledge what they're going through,

To validate that emotional experience,

And to present them with choices.

Can you walk us through some of the mechanics or tools that you might use with somebody one-on-one when they come to you with an issue?

Maybe you can walk us through what that might look like,

Talking to them,

Guiding them,

Helping them look at or shift in energy.

Every teacher is a bit different,

But how do you go about doing it?

Yeah.

So I work with a lot of emotional regulation tools and techniques.

So one of the things that I have in my book is every chapter ends with a different calm kit tool that I call it.

And these are just emotional regulation tools,

Somatic practices,

And meditations that you can utilize to just begin to calm the nervous system.

And so that's the first thing that I do in any session is just make sure that that nervous system is regulated so that we're not approaching things from a place of fear or overwhelm.

We're approaching it from a calm,

Clear-headed space.

And so that can be anything from 5,

4,

3,

2,

1 calming technique for anxiety,

Where we're just utilizing our senses in that moment.

It can come from a mindfulness meditation,

Grounding work.

It can come from somatic practices like the butterfly hug.

And so it really is building this arsenal of tools for each client so that we can use them.

We figure out which one is effective,

Which one is not effective,

And beginning the sessions with that.

And then once they're regulated,

Going into,

Okay,

What's coming up for you?

What's the thing that is causing the dysregulation in your life?

And then from there,

It's working with that co-regulation,

Where they get to begin to speak through it,

Or while I'm staying emotionally regulated,

They begin to absorb that.

And then we begin to process through,

Why does it make sense that things are happening in their lives the way that they are?

And what are possible choices?

And then how do we create action from there?

Do you elicit the possible choices out of them?

Do you ask them to give you a number of scenarios that they can imagine?

It's always from them.

I never give,

Unless I ask for specific permission to give them an idea.

Or if I say,

Oh,

If they're really stuck,

Sometimes I'll say,

Let's brainstorm together.

And I'll throw out an idea.

But that's just to get the ball rolling,

Because I want everything to always come from them.

Because I want them to make the conscious choice that's best for them.

Yeah,

A good teacher always is helping the student find their own answers,

Instead of just giving it to them.

Would you be willing to share just maybe one story of a transformation that maybe even blew you away as a teacher,

Where you were like,

Wow,

That was a heck of a shift?

Yeah.

I mean,

I think one of the meditations that I utilize a lot is the love and kindness meditation,

The metta meditation.

And I remember my own journey of this was,

I thought it was hoo-ha.

I thought it was ridiculous.

And I just remember being like,

This is so cheesy.

This is that extending of well wishes to others in your life,

To yourself first,

Then to a loved one,

Then to a stranger,

Then to a person you've had conflict with,

Then the world around you.

And it just wasn't landing for me.

But I continued to do it.

And then I started to see the progress.

And so when I started teaching,

I had a woman come to me,

And she was in the exact same position where it was,

This was,

She didn't feel it,

She thought it was cheesy,

She didn't want to want to do it again.

And so I spoke to her about my experience with it.

And she continued to come back.

And so she would come every single week,

We had a weekly class.

And by the end of I think it was like seven or eight weeks,

She had this really emotional session,

Where I was guiding her through that.

And I could,

You know,

When you're teaching,

You can see the energy.

And then there's oftentimes you can start to see that people are crying,

Or people are really emoting.

And she was really,

Really experiencing this meditation.

So afterwards,

I talked to her.

And she was discussing the fact that this was the first time she was able to begin to process the difficult relationship that she had with her mother.

She hadn't spoken to her mother in almost a decade.

And in that meditation,

Being able to extend well wishes gave her this great sense of empathy,

Great sense of understanding that it wasn't her fault.

Great understanding that even though she didn't agree with how her mother had treated her,

She could see that based on her mother's own experience in life,

It made sense.

And it opened up this possibility for her to begin to reach out to her mom.

And she ended up doing that she ended up starting to rebuild that relationship.

But from a place that it felt safe,

She was able to confidently go in knowing what boundaries she had to set.

And all of this came from what she at one point considered this cheesy nonsense.

You know,

Let me just say silly words out loud.

Don't don't make me all loving Michael,

Like a preschooler.

Life is hard and no one cares.

Just let me swim in that for a while.

Sometimes you got to swim in the deep end.

Sometimes you do.

You got to swim in it for a while until you're like,

All right,

That's enough suffering.

Yeah.

There's something very universal you're describing,

I think,

Which is why you're so effective as a teacher.

And probably going back to the Buddha,

Very similar that we all as human beings experience this thing we call suffering.

And we're either going to just live in that or at some point we can start to wake up and go,

Okay,

Does this have to be my destiny to just always suffer?

Or is there some kind of way out of here?

And I think what you're offering people is a path to get out of that really deep,

Heavy suffering.

I love this.

There's this quote from Eckhart Tolle,

Something like suffering is necessary until you realize it's unnecessary.

Was there a point in your life where you hit that moment of like,

All right,

Do I need to keep suffering so much or can I shift out of this?

Yeah.

I live in New York.

And so I've been here for about 20 years at this point.

And when I first moved here,

I grew up in Colorado.

And so it's a much different experience there.

I just remember having so much anxiety and so much just because it's overwhelming.

You walk in,

The sights,

The sounds,

The smells,

People are screaming at you.

And it really was really overwhelming for me.

And I just remember having that moment where I was on a train and this moment of,

Do I want to continue to have this reaction?

Because I could feel my body was just shutting down at that point.

Or do I want to do something about it?

And I had been studying mindfulness for a while at that point.

I was like,

Let me just try and breathe through this.

Let me try and ground into my senses,

Figure out what's around me,

Find spaces of safety.

And I started to feel things actually start to settle at that moment.

I think that was a good example of just,

Did I want to continue to choose that suffering that I was allowing for myself?

Or did I want to acknowledge it?

It made sense that I was,

You know,

New York is loud.

But what could I do about it?

And that's where I loved having the tools to be able to start to say like,

Oh,

I do have a choice here.

I don't have to suffer.

I think what I'm getting from that is if you want to find enlightenment,

Move to New York City.

It's funny because I grew up in New York City and then around in the suburbs in New Jersey.

And now I live in Colorado.

So we've traded places.

You're in a better place.

They all have their essence.

That's cool.

So maybe we can transition a little bit.

First of all,

That was really cool to just have you walk us through some of what you do with your students one-on-one.

Then maybe we can transition into how we are as effective as teachers with groups.

Because if me and you could sit one-on-one with every single student and have that impact,

That would be incredible.

But there's not enough time in our lives to do that.

So when you are speaking to a group,

Whether it's live or recorded in person,

Online,

Whatever it is,

How do you as a teacher tap into a similar energy and guide an entire group of people through something like that,

Like the one-on-one thing you just described?

Yeah.

There's that universality of things where I speak to you as an individual,

Even when I'm addressing an entire group of people,

Where it's about channeling that energy,

Knowing that we have these shared experiences.

And if you can tap into that shared experience and get people to feel like,

Oh,

He's talking to me,

It's going to land.

It's going to correlate.

But it's generic enough where you can put yourself into the situation.

So I always speak in pretty general terms and don't make it overly specific.

Whereas if I'm working one-on-one,

We're going to go really specific.

If I know a backstory,

If we've talked about something,

We're going to go into that.

If we're working in group work,

It's more about the feelings of sadness,

The feeling of overwhelm.

What is causing you to feel pain today?

And going in through that way.

So it's more general,

But it's specific in getting people to address it to their life situation.

Yeah,

I've gotten countless messages from students saying,

In this meditation,

It felt like you were talking just to me.

And I don't know about you,

But often I'm talking to me.

When I'm guiding a meditation,

I'll be working through the energy alongside the group and the students.

And that's how I keep pace.

It's like,

How long is this taking me to shift or release or to notice?

And so I'll be in it alongside the group.

And that's how I like to feel and see and sense the energy of the group.

And you can tell as a teacher,

Obviously,

If it's live,

More easily that like,

Oh,

There's a dip right now.

Everyone's a bit stuck or really in the deep end here feeling.

And now we're going to start to come out of it.

And I think,

And you tell me,

But I think it's something that you learn.

You were a musician too.

I know you are a musician and a singer,

And so you know a lot about rhythm and feeling the harmony and the energy.

Is it like that for you when you're teaching?

You're like,

Okay,

There's a dip of the energy in the room now,

And now we're coming out of it.

There's some healing energy going.

Is that how you experience it?

Yeah.

And it's figuring out,

In musical terms,

When do we need that firmata,

Which is the,

It's to hold.

And it's that,

And I think that's the most important thing you can do is know when to hold and know when to release.

And so it's,

If I'm guiding through something,

And I can tell that it's really landing and people are really processing through something,

I'm going to hold that.

And I'm just going to hold that probably for longer than maybe I would want it to.

And then we're going to release.

And if I know something is not landing,

We're going to pick up the pace here,

And I'm going to move forward this,

And we're going to start to move the energy in a different direction.

But it's really just,

Yeah,

That's exactly what it is.

It's just reading the music of the meditation.

I love that.

That's a great way to put it.

And you've done,

I know you've done live events in person where you've had entire orchestras behind you while you were guiding meditation.

Yeah,

Which is awesome.

That is.

Where did you tell me you did one?

Was it Carnegie Hall or Radio City?

Where was it?

We did it at Lincoln Center.

And then we did one in DC at Arena Stages.

And then we have one coming up in February.

Where?

Should be fun.

It's in Fort Lauderdale.

No way.

Oh,

Cool.

Well,

My grandparents live near there.

I might have to swing down to say hi.

Come on.

Yeah.

But that's a really cool experience of,

We're all working together,

Where the conductor's following me,

I'm following them,

Where the orchestra's coming.

And yeah,

And it's really just allowing for the music to follow the meditation.

And so the conductor is creating the swells when we need to,

Bringing things way down to the gentleness.

And so it really is the music of meditation.

That is so cool.

And I'm sure most meditation teachers dream to be able to guide and teach with an entire orchestra behind you.

And maybe that can help us transition into the next part here,

Which is getting to that place as a teacher.

After teaching the teacher training for a few years now,

I've noticed this energy.

No matter how much information I give,

Michael,

I can give everyone every single step,

A thousand times over.

This is how you do it.

This is how I did it.

This is how it's done.

And still they'll hit that energy of like,

I don't know how to do this or how I can actually get from here to there.

There's a trepidation of crossing that chasm of having zero students to eventually reaching people.

And maybe we could talk a little bit about the mechanics of what that journey is like.

Obviously,

There's the lights and the camera and the microphone and choosing of the content.

But then there's also like choosing the channel.

Do I want to be online or in person at a studio?

And like you were saying,

You started at a studio.

And it just seems,

If I put myself in the beginner's mind of,

You know,

Someone's about to be a teacher,

It seems overwhelming.

There's so many teachers already and so many options.

How does somebody know where to start?

I think it's figuring out the container first.

And so that's why I think teacher training is going to be,

I'm so excited to be able to give that to people.

And it's that container of,

How do I lead a meditation?

How do I structure it?

What is my authentic voice?

How do I put myself into this space?

And then I'm less worried about where that goes.

As long as I know that,

You know,

With everything that I do,

It's always centered around the same thing.

It's pretty much the same structure for everything.

Whether I'm teaching a short two minute video or in real,

Whether it's a longer form meditation,

Whether it's a group meditation,

Or whether it's in front of entire orchestra,

The structure remains the same.

It's what helps me to be able to keep my voice.

And then it's just kind of filtering it into the medium.

And so whatever medium speaks to you is where I think you should start.

If you feel really comfortable in a,

In a studio by yourself,

And it's just you and a microphone,

A podcast would be great for you.

If you feel like being with people and really having that connection,

Then a studio is going to be great,

Great for you.

But you're going to do the same thing,

No matter what it is,

As long as you have that container to live in.

Yeah,

I agree.

I think we get a little too obsessed with which channel it's going to go on and what the algorithm might be instead of being just in the energy.

And it's like that river will find its way.

I remember Eckhart Tolle sharing stories about people would literally just start showing up at his house and coming to him and friends would tell friends,

And he would just help and guide people.

And then eventually that just,

It just grew without him even putting effort or energy into it.

Then again,

Back then there was less teachers.

So for example,

You just started teaching on Insight Timer actually at the time of this recording,

The morning ritual,

The daily morning challenge,

Whatever it's exactly called,

Started today.

And we're both in it,

Which is so cool.

It's a 10-day challenge on Insight Timer.

We've got like over 125,

000 students signed up already.

So high five to you.

I'm so excited that you're on there now.

But when people look at something like that,

They go,

Oh my God,

There's already 20,

000 teachers.

That's one of the spectrums,

Like there's so many teachers.

And then,

Oh,

Eckhart was so enlightened and he didn't have to do anything.

And it all just came to him.

Or Michael's got such an amazing energy and presence and voice.

There's a trepidation,

As I mentioned before,

That I've just seen it come up in almost every single teacher I've taught.

When we get to the place of,

Okay,

I'm taking Michael's advice.

I'm going to just do my work.

I've chosen a channel to share my content on online or in person.

Here I am.

Now I need to actually refine it over time and master the communication.

How have you found doing that?

Have you noticed a shift over time of how you've mastered that form of getting your message across,

Helping people awaken,

Processing through energy?

Have you had mentors along the way that have helped adjust or tweak your work?

Or have you just made your way?

I've kind of just made my way.

And I found as anytime I try and overcomplicate anything,

It falls on its face.

When I just keep everything very simple and speak from a place that I know,

And that feels authentic and organic,

That's when things land.

One of the things that I learned from when I was teaching preschool was when you're creating curriculum and you're doing this,

We feel like,

Well,

I need to keep it,

Change things up and I need to make it exciting.

There's actually such a benefit in keeping routine and structure because it allows for people to settle into what you're doing.

And so I don't think that we need to be doing all of these bells and whistles and changing every single thing,

Because if you can just be consistent and keep showing up,

People start to learn.

One of the comments I always get is,

I see your face and I take a deep breath now.

And it's because every video starts the exact same way.

There's a which exists in that allows for people to have that familiarity that it almost becomes Pavlovian,

Where it's just this,

Oh,

I see Michael,

I know I'm going to take a deep breath.

I know I'm going to start to settle in this moment.

And I think that's just what we need to do is stop trying to make everything the next big thing and just figure out what works and just do it over and over and over and over again.

That's a great insight.

Although I do think there are people that see you and they're like,

Oh,

My God,

It's Michael,

I can't breathe.

I hope not.

I hope they're breathing.

With the few minutes we have left,

Maybe we could chat a little bit more about teacher training and the structure of it.

And so there's we have 10 plus other teachers in teacher training who will be running small groups and doing mentorship.

But I decided this year I really wanted to co-teach this training with someone.

And we got to chatting and it just clicked really easily.

And then we put this program together.

And I would love to maybe just talk about some of the structure and what we hope the students get out of it through doing it.

And let me preface that by saying the training is a year long,

Where me and you will be teaching twice a month.

And in the last part,

We're going to do once a month,

Almost like a slow ramp coming down,

Let people go.

But maybe we could talk a bit about what the students will get out of doing a teacher training and really who it's for.

And honestly,

Who it's not for.

It's not for everybody.

So what do you see is what people can really get out of a training like this,

Whether it's personal benefit or professional?

I think it's going to be,

You know,

The beginning is really going to be that personal investment.

So you get to understand and embody what it feels like to understand the different types of meditation,

To understand mindfulness,

To see the benefit that it can have in your life.

And so there's a huge personal element to that.

And so anyone who's looking just for that personal growth and development,

This is going to be great for you.

But then it's taking that and expanding it into,

You know,

Once I have this,

Once I understand what it can do for someone's life,

How do I turn that around and be able to gift that to the world?

And through really careful curriculum,

Which is going to teach you not only how to understand all of this on a personal level,

But also be able to teach it in your own authentic way.

I think it's going to be beneficial for anyone who is,

I would say that teachers,

Healthcare professionals,

Anyone who is a leader in an organization,

Anyone who's in management,

This would be helpful for.

And anyone who wants to be a meditation teacher.

Yeah,

Agreed.

And I've had students who like,

Who would come and say,

I don't really want to be a teacher.

I'm just doing this for the experience.

And then they end up actually teaching.

Yeah,

When I did my training,

I didn't think I was going to be a teacher.

I was just doing it because I was enthusiastic and wanted the next thing.

And here we are.

We're going to be teaching our class twice a month.

And then there's going to be small group cohorts where there'll be more like high touch with the other teachers.

So everyone will be part of a small group cohort where they can network and meet each other and share.

Obviously in our class as well,

Everyone will have a chance to share,

Ask questions.

And if they can't make it live,

It'll be recorded.

And then we've added an option if you want to do one-on-one work with the mentors,

You can.

And then I think we're going to mean you'll take like 10 spots if folks want to do some one-on-ones with us.

And like you said,

The first section,

The first three months is going to be mastering meditation for ourselves.

I think it's okay if somebody comes in and hasn't meditated too much before,

But there should be enthusiasm for it and a desire to go deeper.

And we'll create a more structured practice and share the.

.

.

I have different tools than you do.

And we'll share our best practices and the ways we meditate and help guide everyone into a deep,

Consistent practice.

That is obviously the foundation.

And then learning to teach from that energy and how to communicate and not just like reading from a script.

Now you will be relaxed.

I always tell the students,

If you go on,

For example,

Insight Timer and you just click a bunch of meditations,

You'll hear the same voice over and over,

Which is a very monotonous tone that you can't distinguish from other voices.

And so I think it's really important as we get into learning how to teach,

How to find your own voice,

Which I think you are brilliant at being a singer and also a teacher.

Maybe you can just share a little bit about how you have found your own voice and what that even means versus just replicating that meditation voice that you hear so often.

Yeah.

I think it's looking at it as.

.

.

It's almost like you're singing.

It's that,

What's the cadence that I'm singing with?

What's the tone that I'm going to be using for this?

And what's the volume that I'm going to be using?

How fast or how slow do I want to make this section?

And so when you can break down a meditation into those beats,

Just as you would with a song,

It really becomes empowering and impactful.

And it also makes.

.

.

I have meditations where I've hired people to score them and then it just adds that extra level where it's now we have the music,

The musicality of the voice partnered with the musicality of the music and really just kind of takes it to another level.

But all stuff that we can teach and I can break down into really specific musical terms for people to understand and start to implement.

And the way you were mentioning earlier,

How you start every meditation or every video off in a similar way of breathing and people get used to that.

I was thinking mine is probably starting off with some kind of dad joke or a loosening up of energy.

It is.

Yeah.

Which is wonderful and it draws me in because I remember before you reached out,

I had listened to you on Insight Timer and I had been like,

I like this guy.

This is fun.

It's unique.

It's not every other meditation teacher that you hear on Insight Timer.

Thank you.

You know,

It's funny.

I got a message yesterday from a guy who said,

Hey,

I've been listening to you for like seven,

Eight years.

And at first I just could not handle the playfulness and the jokes.

He wrote something like,

I don't know.

He's like,

I don't know why this guy keeps making jokes.

And then he said,

And then I realized how serious I was taking everything and how I needed to loosen up.

And I found that when it comes to being stuck or emotional pain,

Some kind of mental block that people take whatever they're working on so seriously,

They kind of start to suffocate it.

It could be somatic,

Like dropping the shoulders or loosening the jaw,

Which you're so good at.

And it could also be like,

Hey,

Just notice energetically how heavy and serious you are right now and see if you can loosen up some of that energy.

So that's where I've always,

I mean,

I just have a comedic mind.

I'm wired that way.

So I find,

I think the point I'm trying to make is I find it enjoyable as a teacher to go in that direction.

And then I feel fulfilled and because it's also helping people,

That's amazing.

And so for me as a teacher,

It works,

But everybody is different.

And so in level two,

As we learn how to teach,

Find our own voice,

Our own style,

We'll go into having practicums where you can practice on each other as teachers and refine your voice and your energy as you teach.

And then level three,

We're going to go into the business side of it.

How do I,

From,

You know,

Everything,

Whatever the channel is,

You decide,

Insight timer.

Some people are writers and they love to write it out or teaching in person and finding work that way.

So we'll share our journey and also what we think is the best way to go about it now,

Because it's the market,

The space of being a teacher is always changing and it's changing now faster than ever.

I don't know if you know this,

But I built my own meditation app and when I built it,

Meditation apps were really in and there were so many coming up.

And now it's like,

Everyone's on one or two apps.

I'm like,

I can't handle any more apps.

And that switched very quickly where people were not adopting more apps.

And so we do have to be flexible,

I think,

As teachers.

And so we go through that in the third level on how to be,

How to find your path as a teacher and build it.

There's no one right way.

And maybe by the time we teach this,

There'll be a whole new path that we didn't even know.

Remember Clubhouse?

That lasted like five minutes.

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

It was big for like five minutes.

Yeah.

I was going to ask you,

How do you see it shifting for teachers right now?

What's different today than maybe when you started?

I mean,

I think just with the with the social media aspect of it,

Because that's what I,

You know,

Know,

Know the most is it's really moving away from this informational where people used to be that,

You know,

Teachers would come on and be like,

Here's five things to know.

And people don't want that anymore.

People want to feel,

People want to experience,

People want you to just get to it,

Guide them through whatever you're going to guide them,

Guide them through and then send them on their way.

And so I think that learning how to,

Because attention spans are so short right now,

The ability to do a 60 minute meditation may not be as beneficial in the long run as learning how to do these micro meditations between one minute and three minutes and figuring out how to still make those effective and still make those get the same benefits without having a captive audience for that long of a time.

You know,

I've noticed that shift in that trend as well.

For sure,

Even Insight Timer,

The way they now pay their teachers,

The algorithm has changed,

And it's all become about retention and returning.

And they've asked the teachers to even create more short form content.

So definitely our attention spans are changing.

It's an odd place to be as a meditation teacher,

Because we want to help people focus,

Be still and extend that attention span.

But we also have to deal with the reality of where people are right now,

Reach them where they are,

And then help them build that muscle and shift.

And who knows,

In the next few years,

How that'll shift again.

And I think there's probably literally no one better than you to help people understand,

Especially the social media aspect of being a meditation teacher if they're into that.

And a lot of people look at social media like it's kind of icky.

And I get why I get that,

Too.

I get that feeling.

I'm sure you do.

But you've done such a good job of going on there and shifting the energy of that in and of itself.

Yeah.

And it doesn't have to be this like insane sales tool where we're all trying to make a quick buck.

You can just come on and be there to be of service to other people.

And that is the best way to do it,

Is to be of service.

I know we're coming up to the end of our time here.

So let me just say,

Level four is really the practice where the teachers in training take everything they've learned and they start to really practice,

Put it out in the world,

Do meditation recordings and start creating content and take all that knowledge and make it real.

So the last two teacher trainings I did were nine months.

And what I saw from that and decided was the teachers need time now to practice.

And so that we've added three more months.

So it's a year long training now.

And what I love about it,

Too,

Is there's a community.

So we're all on.

We've used Slack in the past.

We're all on there together.

People can ask questions,

Share,

Network with each other.

And it's a great way to bring people together who want to become teachers or already are,

Just want to add tools to their tool belt and help shift some of the energy on this crazy planet,

Michael,

Because it is a wild moment.

It sure is.

You don't have to be in New York to have anxiety.

No,

It's everywhere.

It's everywhere.

Yeah.

So maybe just very last question for you here is for anyone who's interested in becoming a teacher or deepening into being a teacher.

Is there something you can leave us with that you've learned over all this time teaching and reaching all of these people,

A little nugget of wisdom that could help somebody get from there to here and enjoy the process and not make it just like this sluggish journey of I need to make money or find an audience or something like that?

What is it really about?

It's really about understanding the value of this work and really understanding the value for yourself and seeing the impact that it can have on your life,

And then taking that and being able to gift that to someone else.

This really has to come from a place of giving.

As any teacher,

You need to come from a place of you are a serviced-based leader and that you are coming from a place of I'm going to gift this to you,

Not because you're giving me a million dollars here,

Not because I'm out to make a quick buck,

But because I really believe in this and I want you to experience it.

Thank you.

Yeah,

I always say this is a service job,

But under apron.

Well,

Michael,

It's so good to see you and chat with you and thank you for all the insight and wisdom,

And I can't wait to do this teacher training with you and watch all of these students flower.

It's going to be really special.

Yeah,

I'm excited.

Me too.

Thanks,

Everybody,

For listening,

Watching,

Being here with us,

And we'll see you soon,

Maybe in teacher training.

All right.

Bye,

Guys.

Thank you.

Bye.