Supporting Teens With Leah Aguirre And Geraldine O’Sullivan

How can we empower teens to make choices based on their personal values?

How can we support them in their sexual identity and in healthy relationships?

That's what we're going to explore today with Leah Aguirre and Gerardino Sullivan on your life in process.

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Our teenagers and young adults are facing more challenges than ever.

They're swimming in these uncharted waters of social media.

They've been through a pandemic.

They have intense pressures to achieve and succeed in life.

And this is on top of what's already a challenging time in terms of relationships and identity development and body image.

So when I picked up the book,

Girls Guide to Relationships,

Sexuality,

Consent,

I thought,

Oh,

I wish I had this when I was a teenager.

And then I thought,

How can we get this out to more teens and more adults and help them with all the things that we felt like we couldn't ask our parents or our peers and that teenagers would really benefit from learning.

There's a lot of brain changes that happen during your teenage years.

Dan Siegel has a great book called Brainstorm that describes some of these major brain changes.

It's a time that's really exciting.

And one of the things that starts to happen is you start to take more risks.

There's more novelty seeking because actually teens have lower baseline levels of dopamine.

And then when their dopamine is released,

It's released in higher amount.

So this means that new things feel really,

Really good to a teenager.

And they also can get bored pretty easily.

They go out and seek new experiences to get that dopamine response.

It's also a time when your emotions are much more intense.

You see greater activity in brain areas associated with emotions in teens.

And that's why your teenager may give you a dirty look,

Even when you feel like you've done absolutely nothing,

But just maybe breathed in their presence.

And then finally,

We see these changes in terms of teens attachments.

It's a time when they start to switch their attachment from their parents to their peers.

Social networks become very important to teenagers.

So there's just so much good stuff going on.

And adults need to honor this adolescent process.

We need to support them,

Not get too much in the way,

But also provide some scaffolding,

Especially in the arena of relationships.

I mean,

If you think back to some of your relationships as a teenager,

Some of those intense friendships you may have had,

Or even the first person that you fell in love with and what it felt like to be in love,

It was pretty wild,

Pretty gnarly.

And also an important time for your values development,

Your self worth development,

Your self respect development.

These are all things that we want to support our teenagers in.

Today,

We're going to talk with two experts on teenagers,

Leah Aguirre and Geraldine O'Sullivan on relationship values,

On consent,

How to be there for teens without getting in the way,

How to support them through their sexual identity development and their body image,

And really have those conversations that maybe we needed as teenagers,

A rare person that may have had one of those with their parents.

I'm excited about this one for you.

I hope it's helpful.

And I hope you share it with a teenager in your life that you think would benefit or other adults get the spread out far and wide so that we can all be on the same page.

At the end,

I'll bullet point things out for you so that you have some ideas that you can use right away to interact with the teens you care about.

In this episode,

I do talk a bit about body image flexibility.

For those of you that are mental health providers and want to take a course with me on body image flexibility and act.

I have a six hour CE course that's on demand through PESI Continuing Education.

It's available anytime to take on your time and I get so much positive feedback about this course.

People really find it helpful because I give a lot of experiential practices that you can use in the therapy room with adolescents,

But also with adults.

All right,

You can find the link in the show notes.

Enjoy the episode.

Welcome,

Leah and Geraldine.

I'm going to have you introduce yourselves so people can get a sense of your voice and put your voice to your name because sometimes we have more than one person on.

It's hard to remember who is who.

So glad to have you here.

And maybe Leah,

You can start by just introducing who you are,

Where your work is and what you care about that brought you here.

So I'm Leah Aguirre.

I'm a licensed clinical social worker.

I'm in private practice to provide individual therapy in California.

I'm based out of San Diego,

But I do telehealth all over California.

I do a lot of work with young adults that have struggled with complex trauma,

Childhood abuse,

And then leading domestic violence situations or have been in abusive relationships.

And welcome,

Geraldine.

Thank you.

My name is Geraldine O'Sullivan.

I'm a licensed clinical social worker,

And I currently practice as a school social worker at a large public high school in San Diego County.

And I work out of our wellness center.

And so the group that I'm working with is teenagers,

Like 14 to 18.

So both of you are boots on the ground.

Sometimes on this show,

I have researchers on,

And then sometimes I have people that are thinking and writing books.

You are in the trenches with the teens day in and day out,

The young adults,

And seeing what things they really struggle with.

And what I noticed in looking at your work is that you do understand what is current for teens,

What's up for them,

Everything from online dating to how to identify their self-worth to understanding their own sexuality.

And one of the concerns that parents,

Caregivers,

And even therapists have is they know the things that they want for young adults.

They want them to be healthy and happy and make good choices and all those things,

But they don't always know how to support teens in doing that.

So what is your first go-to in working with teenagers?

Geraldine?

I think that building rapport is really important with the teens and just finding something to connect with them on,

Like right off the bat,

And having teens understand that,

At least in my case,

Therapy services are optional,

So nobody's forcing them to be there.

They have the right to consent to those services.

And so I think a lot of teens sometimes feel like somebody's making me come here or there's something wrong with me,

And that's why I have to talk to someone,

And really reframing that for them and helping them to understand that they have the right to consent and then checking in with them and building rapport and building connection with them and finding some common ground.

I think that really helps them to feel comfortable and make that connection initially.

Teenagers,

They kind of feel a little bit trapped by adults sometimes or controlled.

So it's this time where teenagers need to start making some decisions for themselves and try some things out.

Parents and adults need to let go a little bit,

But they also still need some guidance.

One of the things that you write about is starting with values with teens,

And it's a little bit different,

I think,

Working on values with teens than working on values with adults.

And how would you suggest for parents or caregivers to start to have conversations around values?

What are some of the things that you talk about?

Maybe,

Leah,

You can answer this one.

A lot of what it comes down to is casual and open conversations between parents and their kids about what values are and in a non-complicated way.

So describing what family values are.

So we appreciate quality time together.

We have dinner at the dinner table together.

That's something we as a family do.

But then also encouraging or really using that as an example to foster their own individual and unique identity and what them as individuals as a teen value.

So again,

Feeding them information like,

You love spending time with your friends,

That's important to you.

So I want to help you to foster those relationships and prioritize those relationships and really encourage them outside of relationships,

Romantic relationships,

And even school.

If friendships are important to you,

How can we fit that into your daily life?

That's a big part of ACT,

As you know,

Is really clarifying those values and really giving them examples and then helping them to facilitate those relationships.

It's also role modeling it.

So say if you're a parent and you're not really prioritizing your own values and the things that are important to you,

Your child's not going to really know that that's something that's important to do as they become adults.

So role modeling it.

So if you're a parent that really enjoys being artistic and creative,

Showing them that and spending time,

Taking time out of your day to foster those values and the things that matter to you most.

With friendships and relationships is interesting with teens.

And I see it as like teens values are developing.

They're in process.

Like part of being a teenager is figuring out what your values are because you have the modeling from your parents and your job is to go like explore the world,

Take risks,

Be in relationships and figure out,

Oh,

I don't like that.

Or,

Oh,

I like that.

And use that kind of tuning fork to figure out for yourself.

And with relationships in particular,

I think it's hard because they're kind of juggling three different things that often they're juggling.

Okay.

My parents expectations for me,

Maybe four things,

My parents' expectation for me,

Society's expectations of what a relationship looks like.

So when we talk about romantic relationships,

The actual expectations of the person that they're with,

And then maybe their own inner knowing of what's right for them or what's wrong for them.

And sometimes that inner,

That inner knowing is like way at the bottom,

All those other things are on top.

So how do you help,

Help teens uncover that?

Listen to that,

Be able to voice it with more confidence.

I mean,

For me,

I think it's just really giving them space to think about it.

A lot of the book,

What we talk about in our book is just that cognitive dissonance and that feeling in your body when something doesn't sit well with you,

Or something doesn't feel right with you.

And knowing that that could cue you into,

Okay,

This doesn't align with the things that are important to me or the values that I have.

And know it's so vague,

But that feeling of discomfort is a,

Is a really important thing for our youth to start recognizing and knowing that that might tell them that there's something that they're doing that's at odds with their greater value system.

And it's really hard with peer influences and peer pressure.

And like you said,

Social expectations,

What they're seeing on social media to really listen a little bit more deeply.

It is hard.

What I talk about with my clients,

With teens and adults is that your values can shift and change.

And sometimes we have values that will be at the forefront of our minds and values that will take back seat.

And it's really just kind of figuring out that balance and what feels good and works well.

Well,

Let's talk a little bit about romantic relationships.

A lot of your work has focused on that and helping kids navigate choosing partners,

Navigate their own sexuality,

Getting curious about their own sexuality.

And one of,

I think,

Parents and caregivers and even therapists,

Least favorite topic with teenagers is talking about sex and sexuality.

We're scared of it.

So we don't talk about it.

We avoid it.

And it's actually,

I think there's really,

It's really important to be able to do that.

These are really hot topics right now.

And I think teenagers and young adults actually probably know more about them and have more education around it than their parents and caregivers often do or their therapists do.

How do you approach these types of conversations with kids?

And what are some of the common fears that adults have around having conversations around sexuality and social orientation?

I think the more we tiptoe around these topics and these of identity and sexual identity,

The more kids are going to be flailing and feeling unsupported.

That can lead to them accessing inaccurate information,

Going to people that aren't necessarily trustworthy or the best supports for them.

So something that Geraldine and I have really focused on in our book is really encouraging them to talk to safe adults.

And even if that's not their parent,

Which we really hope that it is their parent,

We really hope that they have a safe parent or caregiver that they can go to and talk about these things with.

But really going to safe parents,

Whether it's a counselor at school,

Whether it's a therapist,

Whether it's an older adult in their family,

Like an aunt,

Uncle,

Or cousin even,

That they can go to talk about it as well as familiarize themselves with the resources out there.

They do know a lot,

But a lot of it is from social media.

So the more we can support them in getting to safe and accurate information,

The better they'll be prepared to navigate certain discussions and conversations.

I think kids today are relying so much on peers and social media,

Which is great because they have a network and community of people that oftentimes are very supportive of their identity.

However,

It can also lead to challenges having the communication skills to really navigate conversations with adults about their identity and sexual orientation,

Sexuality,

And preparing for those tough conversations with partners about sex and decisions around sex.

I imagine anyone listening to this episode wants to be a safe adult.

That's why they care about this,

Right?

A lot of times we don't have that information ourselves and we didn't get the experience of be having a safe adult to talk about our sexuality or talk about sex before having sex.

I could imagine if we surveyed everyone listening,

How many of them the first time they had sex did not have a conversation or thought it out,

Or it sort of happened and maybe it was consensual and maybe it wasn't consensual.

So it does feel like there's also an important part for us as adults to look at our own history and our own traumas,

I guess,

Also that block us from talking with kids.

But what are some of the things that a safe adult would coach a kid around or a teen around?

We'll first just start around in terms of intimacy and relationships.

What are some of the top things that are important to be focusing on having conversations about?

Well,

One thing I also just wanted to mention too,

Regarding sexual orientation and how safe adults can normalize those conversations,

Especially therapists,

For example,

What I've done is I've built those questions into my intake process.

So it really normalizes it for all of my youth that I work with is,

What name do you want me to call you?

What's your pronoun that you use?

And doing that with everyone so no one feels singled out.

And I,

Of course,

Ask them if they're comfortable sharing that with me,

But it really normalizes that.

And I've even heard from teachers that they do that in the classroom on the first day of school.

They'll pass around a little index card to every student and say,

Please write down your name and your pronoun and a fun fact about you.

And it just normalizes it for everyone.

And then the teacher has that information and doesn't have to worry about misgendering anyone in the classroom.

And so those are ways that adults can be a safe adult.

And actually,

They don't even necessarily have to have a whole big conversation about it until the teen wants to,

But it just normalizes it.

And it tells that teen,

Okay,

This person is safe for me to talk to.

They get it.

And then later,

If the teen does want to bring up any questions related to their sexual orientation or gender identity or sexual practices that they might be engaging,

They may be more likely to come to that person once they feel that they are safe to talk to.

And getting back to your question about what are some ways to have conversations around sex with teens,

Part of what we talk about in the book is helping teens to identify their values,

Identify if they are having any issues around what are my limits or what are my boundaries,

Exploring that,

Ideally exploring that before you enter a situation so that you know what you're ready or not ready for.

And then also considering how am I going to talk to my partner about things?

How am I going to talk to my partner about what I'm ready for?

Or what if I change my mind?

And how are we going to talk about sexual health?

And just exploring ways,

Like conversation starters for how to talk about that.

Because a lot of young people haven't had those conversations yet,

And they're not sure how to bring things up.

And so that's something that adults can be helpful with teens is prepping them for that.

I also think part of being,

Well,

Just being a parent and a safe person for your child or just a teen in general is talking about what healthy relationships generally look like across the board.

So not just romantic relationships,

But with friends and peers.

And talking about the importance of respect,

The importance of open communication,

The importance of feeling seen and heard,

And building trust in a relationship.

Again,

That can be with both friends and partners.

And I think when you can just give that guidance.

And one thing,

You know,

And my parents are both social workers and very liberal and progressive and all the things,

But there were no conversations.

And I just think because we weren't there yet as a society about what it means to be in a healthy relationship and in a healthy friendship.

And so just encouraging your child or your youth,

Whoever that may be a family member to know that it's okay if you're not feeling safe or comfortable with someone that you don't have to do anything,

Whether it's have sex or engage in a conversation or go out with them to a party.

It really matters in how you feel and if you feel really seen and heard by your friend or partner.

And I think just even empowering youth to do that,

To know that they had the ability to choose who they spend time with,

Who they invest their emotions and is incredible and important as they navigate relationships and romantic relationships in the future.

One of the things that I'll do with young adults around healthy relationships is I'll have them kind of identify,

Give me some examples of people in your life that you think,

That you admire their relationships,

Whether it's social media,

People on social media,

Or people for real in your day-to-day that you see,

Or your own parents,

What are the qualities that you admire and then what are examples of unhealthy relationships?

We just get a sense there's something off there and what's going on there.

And now you have,

From both of those,

You can start to identify what your values are and what you want in a relationship.

And then we write them down on note cards and then I have like a floor in front of them and I say,

Okay,

When you meet someone and you're kind of in the early stages,

Put this note card on the floor in terms of how close they are to you in terms of the values that you want to pursue and how far away are they?

So you can get a sense of,

Is this person lining up?

And a lot of times with teens,

They're just sort of,

They're like falling into the relationship without thinking about it and then they have to kind of backtrack and think about it.

One of the things I really liked about what you said in here,

And this has to do with flexibility,

Is that,

And consent,

Is that it's okay if you've fallen into it and you've gotten this far and maybe you're having sex with someone or maybe you've started to get on that path to backtrack and say,

You know what,

Actually,

I don't think I'm ready.

And at any point along the way,

You can change your mind.

And that is some of the messaging that I don't think,

At least I got,

It was sort of like,

Okay,

I'm locked in now and now I did this thing and now I have to do this thing.

But I really like how you talk about consent with teens.

And can you share with us a little bit more,

What does consent mean and how do you talk with teens about understanding that word?

So I think that when it comes to consent,

Really you're discussing permission or an agreement.

So when two partners are consenting,

They're both giving each other permission and agreeing to whatever's happening.

And so consent can be given verbally,

There can be a discussion of,

Are we ready to have sex?

Are we ready to have sex or any stage of physical intimacy?

And there can be just regular conversations about that,

But it can also be given non-verbally.

So that's something I think it's really important to teach the teens about is that this whole idea of no means no or yes means yes is kind of outdated now.

And there's a lot of.

.

.

Consent is much more nuanced than that.

And so teaching kids that if someone's body language is not indicating that they're interested in what's happening,

Then that might be a sign to stop.

So if someone is really tense or their whole body is frozen or rigid,

Then that might be an indicator that they're feeling uncomfortable and that maybe the partner should stop and check in and say,

Hey,

Are you okay with this?

And in the contrast,

If the person is indicating maybe their body language is they're reciprocating,

They're leaning towards their partner,

They're engaged,

They're showing through their body language that they are consenting,

Then that can also be a sign that consent is being given.

And so there's verbal and nonverbal ways to consent.

And I think not all teens know that.

They don't always know how to identify that.

And so having conversations around that is important.

And I think to what you said earlier,

Some adults are nervous or uncomfortable with talking to teens about sex,

And that's totally understandable.

But I also think that we have to model these conversations for the teens.

We can't expect them to have healthy conversations with their partners around sex if we are struggling to have conversations with them about it.

So just having that floor be open to have those conversations and show them what a comfortable conversation can look like around that will also help them have those conversations with their partners,

Whether it's around the relationship or consent or whatever they're doing.

Yeah.

The conversations,

At least in my household,

Are woven into daily life.

It's not like we have a conversation about sex.

I try and bring it up in different ways.

The other day,

I was sitting on a beanbag watching a basketball game with my son,

And I reached my arm up,

And then I slowly put it around him and then put it around.

.

.

And I said,

Okay,

This is what it's going to be like when you're at a movie.

You're going to spend the first 30 minutes trying to figure out,

Trying to figure out,

Should I put my arm around them or should I not put my arm around them?

Should I.

.

.

And then you're going to get your arm around them,

And then you're going to feel stuck.

Now I can't move my arm.

So just having that kind of conversation is,

Okay,

We can talk about the awkwardness here.

This is awkward.

It's going to be awkward.

There's nothing more awkward than being a teenager figuring out.

.

.

And as adults,

It's still awkward.

Sex is still awkward with married couples that have been together for years.

It's just an awkward thing.

So getting into that space of it's normal for you to feel awkward,

It's normal for you to be uncomfortable in your body,

And then to feel excitement.

But that is one thing that I've really learned from my therapy work,

Is that the more that.

.

.

Like you said,

If you start the first day of school using pronouns,

The more that you bring that into the normal vernacular,

The more comfortable kids feel about talking about things about themselves.

And that's really the goal.

I liked in your book how you had words for communicating consent,

And you actually list them out.

So you say things like,

You could ask your partner,

Are you okay with this?

Is this okay?

Should I keep going?

Are you sure?

I want to make sure you're comfortable with this.

And then the other side of it is words that you could use if you don't feel comfortable with something.

So you can say things like you want to say,

No,

I'm not ready yet.

I'm still getting to know you.

I care about you,

But I'm not ready.

I don't think I'm comfortable with that.

I'd feel more comfortable if you do X,

Y,

And Z.

Sometimes we actually just need to help our kids have the language.

And part of that languaging is also our own as adults asking for consent from our kids.

Now,

I did that arm around my kid on the beanbag,

But as he grows,

I can see his own languaging around,

I'm less comfortable with you,

Mom.

Don't come in my room if I'm naked.

Don't do that anymore.

And being tuned into those barriers and limits that our kids set for us is also really important.

Definitely.

Yeah.

I think part of why we included that language around consent,

Like you said,

Is because it is hard for.

.

.

If they've never had these conversations and they don't know what to say,

Then giving the simple guidance of these different types of phrases,

It just gives them an outline.

It's just helpful.

And of course,

They're going to use their own words.

They're going to say things in the way that they feel comfortable.

But we do quite a bit of that in the book,

Like spelling out ways that you can talk to yourself with your self-talk,

Your friendships,

Your partners when you're negotiating physical intimacy.

So we do try to put some language in there that can help them to figure out how they want to say things.

I think too,

The reason why we want to encourage communication is a lot of kids feel like they need to have sex or engage in intimate interactions because they don't want to offend their partner.

They're worried that their partner won't think they like them or love them anymore.

And so also giving them language to communicate,

I love you,

But I'm not ready and this doesn't feel okay to me and really encourage that open dialogue within all their relationships.

We want to really encourage again,

Making informed decisions and empowered decisions,

Also being able to communicate their love for someone while setting a boundary.

So that's why we do a lot of those examples in the book because we want to give kids a language to express love and gratitude and appreciation,

But also assert themselves.

Absolutely.

One of the places that kids are kids are having a lot more relationships is online.

And this is the mysterious world,

The mysterious online world that I think caregivers,

Parents,

Therapists don't really know what's going on in there.

And you have a chapter called,

What is it?

It's online love doesn't feel virtual,

Which I thought was such a great title because it's true.

I think for me as an outsider,

I'm like,

Oh,

That's just a virtual relationship.

It doesn't really matter.

When you're in an online relationship,

You can feel deeply connected to someone.

And then there's all these other factors around safety and meeting them.

And are they really who they say they are that we can worry about with our teens?

So how would you help educate teens around online relationships?

Where should we loosen up a little bit as caregivers and adults,

But also make sure that they're safe?

I think in the past,

Adults,

Maybe even myself included,

Years ago thought,

Okay,

If it's an online relationship,

It's not safe.

They're being catfished,

Or this isn't a real person,

Or it's a predator or something.

In the past,

We thought of online relationships as this is a safety issue across the board,

And no one should ever date online.

And that thinking has changed.

It's not realistic to expect that teens today are not going to encounter others online.

I've worked with many teens who have been in online,

Maybe long distance relationships with someone.

And so I don't think it's realistic to expect that our teens are never going to meet or engage in any kind of conversations with others online.

They may not end up in a relationship with someone online,

But I think they are going to be interacting in that online space.

And so we do have to,

As caregivers,

Recognize that.

But then we also have to provide guidance on safety for sure.

Because of course,

As we know,

There can be predators online.

There can be safety issues with meeting people online.

And so part of what we discuss in that chapter is sort of walking that line of recognizing the reality and the legitimacy of an online relationship.

Because like you said,

Anyone in an online relationship can feel very deeply about this person who maybe they've never met before,

But they've built a connection.

And then also making sure to have open and honest conversations with caregivers about that to make sure that the situation is safe,

That this person actually is who they say they are,

That they actually are within your same age range.

Or I have conversations with teens I work with about not revealing too much personal information online about their name or their address or the school that they go to,

Things like that,

Just to maintain their general safety online.

But I think as caregivers and adults,

We have to be careful not to minimize the experience of their online relationship and not to judge it because then teens will typically shut down.

And then they're much more likely to not tell us what's going on.

And then that creates a potential for safety issues if we don't tell as much.

The sneakiness.

It's the sneakiness that gets us,

You got to kind of go with the flow.

Otherwise,

They'll figure out.

They're like water.

They figure their way out and get where they want to go.

So I have a question for you around that because there was sort of a suggestion or encouragement for adults to be monitoring.

Or there is advice,

Some people give the advice that adults should be monitoring their teens online platforms.

So checking in on their Instagram,

Checking in on their Snap.

You can't really check on Snapchat,

But checking in on how they're communicating,

Even their texts.

And then there's a whole nother sort of aspect to that,

Which is this is these are their private conversations.

Was your mom listening to you on the other end of the phone when you were a kid and you were like having conversations with your friends?

No,

That would you be horrified for your mom to hear what you were saying in those.

And obviously,

This depends on development,

Right?

A ninth grader is different than a 12th grader in this.

But what are your suggestions around how much monitoring parents should be doing of their kids' platforms and phones and all that?

Yeah,

It's kind of tough.

It's up to each individual family.

And Leah,

You can add your thoughts on this as well.

But I mean,

I think whatever decision a family makes regarding how much they're going to be monitoring their child's messaging or online presence,

I think the biggest part of that is making sure that the child also knows that that's the expectation.

I think where we get into a lot of trouble is kids are messaging and then their parents are sneakily reading their phone or reading their diary or whatever.

And that's where trust gets really broken or kids feel really violated if it's like,

Oh my gosh,

My mom read my private messages.

Now,

If that child knows,

Hey,

My mom can go through my phone at any minute and that's the rule in my house,

And she can read my messages anytime,

Then at least they know that that is the expectation that's set within the family.

They may not agree to it or they may have their own opinions about it.

But the rule and the expectation has been set.

And so then the child and the parent both know this is how we operate.

And so I think that there has to be that mutual respect given of like,

Hey,

I'm your parent,

I want to make sure you're safe.

I may be asking you from time to time who you're talking to or what you're saying to that person or what you're doing online.

And it's because I care about you and it's because I want you to be safe.

It's not because I'm trying to snoop or trying to be in your business.

It's because I care about you.

And making sure that teens understand that and that they don't think that their parent is just being invasive.

Well,

Parents have to check themselves on that too.

What are your values around your kids' online use and why are you going in there?

Is this about just,

I'm curious what's happening in their relationship with so-and-so and I want to know the latest because they won't talk to me about it.

That's different than I'm concerned about their safety.

I want to make sure they're not being bullied.

It's important to have those conversations,

But also first to have that conversation.

With yourself,

What's my why behind this?

And does it line up with my values or is there a dissonance there as well?

Related to sexuality and intimacy and all of this and just being a teen and young adult is body image.

And it is one of the hardest times to be in a body when your body is changing and growing and it's not at the same pace as everybody else's.

And at the same time,

There's so much focus on it.

So,

You're under a microscope.

How do you work with teens around body image and helping them get to a place of body image flexibility?

There's conversations that are happening about not necessarily coining it body positivity,

But body neutrality just because in reality,

We're in this world of comparison and we're also in a culture that really profits off the beauty industry in comparison.

And so,

It's not always possible for a lot of our youth and just adults to feel truly positive about their bodies,

But they can experience more neutrality.

That's important too.

I really think what Geraldine and I have tried to communicate through the book and what we try to do with our youth and even me with my adults is that we appreciate the diversity of our bodies.

What you see on social media,

On Instagram,

On TikTok doesn't reflect the diversity of bodies in the world and throughout the world and amongst various cultures.

And they're really helping our youth and young adults understand that there is this huge spectrum of diversity and cultural values and how really it comes down to what we value and appreciate about our bodies,

The strength of our bodies,

The resiliency of our bodies,

The health of our bodies,

And the diversity of our bodies.

And so,

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