Nisargadatta's I Am That Session 26 - Chapter 12 Part 3 Q&As

Then the problem comes here,

Then you think that somebody else has written my dream script,

Which is not true.

That is where Advaita says,

Go into your own direct experience of your own dreaming in the night.

You only dreamt that tiger and you woke up.

It wasn't that somebody else,

Your enemy came from whatever 10 kilometers away and planted the dream into your head.

No,

Wrong.

It is my own dream.

I projected the tiger and I perceived it.

Advaita says,

The people who have determinism as the way of their belief are stuck with this thing that somebody else has destined me to follow whatever is going on in my life.

No.

Here I project,

Then I forget that I projected and then I perceive and then I react to what I am perceiving myself.

So I have only created the drama and we see this in our dream every night.

We don't really like all our dreams.

Yes.

So we know that I have projected it and I have perceived what I have projected.

So again,

It's not predestined.

It is I am simultaneously projecting and perceiving.

But there is a forgetfulness in the middle that happens.

That's why I don't know I projected this.

I hope I clarified that part.

I project cravings and aversions and now I want there to be peace.

So I am throwing a stone into the lake and now I'm saying there should not be a ripple.

Is it possible?

Between me throwing the stone and seeing the ripple,

There is a forgetfulness.

Yes,

That is the Maya part.

And we are saying it is very much in your hand to not forget.

To again and again remember your true nature.

You'll stop throwing that stone and then expecting that there should not be a ripple.

Do you see this?

You are disturbing peace and then you are saying why is there not peace.

Between these two events there is wailing power of Maya.

We can overcome the wailing power of Maya.

We can never overcome the projecting power of Maya till this body-mind lasts.

Because the biggest projection of mine is for example 100 years life of this body-mind.

Now that has already been projected.

It's part of the script.

I cannot do anything about it.

So even at 35 if this body-mind gets enlightened,

It has to go through the balanced number of years.

Now it's stuck.

It doesn't have an option.

Projection is not in my hand.

Projection has been done.

Yes,

Now what I can do for the balanced 65 years is not to get veiled.

I can see very clearly there is no snake.

It is a rope.

Simple.

I reject the snake every time I see it.

Because it is only Pratyaksha.

It is not Aparoksha.

When you experience that juggle,

What is the juggle?

Really go deep into it.

What is this juggle?

It is I the witness forgetting my stand as just the witness and saying oh I'm too silent.

My family members are getting bothered by my silence.

And now I start creating the story in my mind.

So I the witness have forgotten my witnessing natural state and have got into this dialogue with myself.

And I'm trying to correct the situation.

I'm going to try to talk to the family member because he or she feels that I'm not,

I become very silent.

The whole thing is because I the witness am not letting it flow.

Instead of jumping in and trying to correct the situation just say it is what it is.

And stay behind and see what happens.

Anyway you cannot change the dream script.

By throwing the stone in you only get feverish.

That's all that happens.

I want you to experiment on this.

What is happening by my craving?

What is happening by my aversion?

I am only creating more feverishness,

Restlessness.

Nothing is changing in the dream script.

And even if I spoke 10 sentences more the other person still perceived it as silence.

So nothing really changed in my dream script.

I just got agitated and disturbed my peace.

So I want you to go one level deeper.

Now start seeing what is happening when I am entertaining this craving.

And what is happening when I'm entertaining the aversion.

What is happening when I'm withdrawing from entertaining the craving or aversion.

Even though it's knocking constantly.

It's just a thought.

It's constantly knocking my door.

Do something.

Do something.

Do something.

And I don't.

You will see the dream script still goes on.

Nothing stops.

Absolutely.

You are just knowing it.

You are just knowing it.

It was all programmed that Ekta was going to do this session.

And then that was going to have this effect on Abhijit.

And then Abhijit was going to implement it in his life.

And there was this real difference that was noticed.

Everything was according to the script.

You are just knowing it.

So the only ignorance,

The only problem is my misunderstanding that I am the doer or I am the experiencer.

There is no other wrong thing happening here.

There was a time when I was doing some work and there was as though like an earthquake happened.

This is just a poetic form.

And a gap,

A crack developed between me.

That's how it felt.

There was something that my hands were just moving,

Doing its job.

And there was something that was just watching the hands moving and doing its job,

Thinking.

That witness could not do anything.

I had described it before,

But I'll describe it again.

It felt like its hands and legs were tied.

Its all senses were tied.

It was dumb.

It was mute.

It could not do anything but just watch.

And that was when I realized what everything Ekta has been talking about so far is all that you can do is only witness.

Because for a few days,

The body just did what it had to interact with family members,

Do the chopping of the vegetables,

Cooking,

Have meetings with the fellow workers,

Think.

It was a dream and it actually revealed itself as a dream that this is all just happening and I'm the audience sitting in the theater and just watching it.

And it was just that witness doing that thing.

So this witness thing is really real.

I just hope that we all get to experience this.

And of course the glimpse was gone and it will come when it has to again.

But stay in the witness because that's all that you are and you can really not do anything.

Remaining in nothingness,

In the gap between the thoughts and sensations and feelings,

Earlier I used to not be able to remain in nothingness because of the fear of the mind that if I stay in nothingness,

The problem at hand will not be solved.

I have to do something to do it.

I cannot move my attention to the world.

I have to keep doing.

And then you realize it's just abhyasa and you realize that whether you put your attention in the nothingness or get entangled in the storm of thoughts,

Whatever is happening is solving on its own.

It's happening on its own.

So you have two choices.

Get entangled in those thoughts and create misery for yourself when anyway everything is happening the way it has to.

Or just relax and put your focus in nothingness and those things appear and dissolve,

Appear and dissolve.

And I keep experimenting with each time my mind tells me to stop doing nothing and go back to the problem.

But I shun away,

I don't give attention,

Put my attention here and I see that that nothingness gap grows longer and longer as described as the psychic bandwidth by Ekta.

If that psychic bandwidth decreases,

It's just thoughts,

Thoughts,

Thoughts,

Perceptions and you think you're going crazy.

But if you keep increasing the nothingness gap,

You just are in,

You're just residing in your true identity and then everything just,

You just realize more and more,

You just start zooming out more and more and seeing that things are just happening anyways.

An example of what Ekta said today was,

Nisargadatta Maharaj said was,

I am not my mind,

I am this mind.

If you notice the paroksha,

The pratyaksha described on flock by everyone,

If you hear what your kids worries are or your friends worries are,

They are actually the same.

There's nothing new.

Everyone has the same worries.

Everyone has the same perceptions.

So it is really the mind,

The collective mind that is just coming up with the same kind of things.

It's not my mind that what I think,

No one else thinks that.

We have the same fears,

The same worries.

So experientially I can recognize that it is the mind,

Not my mind.

I haven't reached that point yet,

But definitely I feel that way.

Super,

Super.

Very good.

Did you understand what she's saying?

She's calling it the mind which Maharaj calls chidakasha.

That is only one mind.

There is no my mind and your mind and her mind and his mind.

There is just the mind.

Yes,

And you can get there.

Just stop giving so much spotlight attention to the actions of this body and the thoughts in the mind,

Assuming it to be my body and my mind.

Take the mindness away and just take the floodlight stand.

Be the witness and you'll automatically get thrown to that level where you can see there is just the mind.

That's how we are having the same discussions,

The same things everybody is talking.

How?

Because it is the same one mind,

The collective mind.

That is the next chapter really.

It is going in the same direction that you are anyway thinking and you're thinking,

Oh,

I thought this.

Did I think it?

There is no my mind.

It is again the mind.

It is automatically taking that direction.

The flow is going in that direction.

The primordial awareness,

It is not affected by the craving and aversion.

It always remains.

Previously I had all this.

I have to do such things so that I have access to my awareness.

It is not that it is always there.

It is always remains unaffected.

Cravings come,

Go,

Awareness,

Aversion comes and goes,

But it always remain as it is.

Yes,

Pure,

Pure,

Untouched.

It is that in which everything comes and goes.

Super 10 on 10.

So see,

He is an inspiration for you.

Take your attention away from the cravings and aversions and take your attention to the awareness.

That in which the cravings come and go.

That in which the aversions come and go.

You're taking your attention away from here to this because this takes care of its own self.

The body mind takes care of its own self.

You focus on the primordial awareness and you will recognize it doesn't come and go.

It is always there.

Has always been there.

This is very experiential.

He's speaking experientially.

He's not telling you theory.

So that birth and death,

Birth and death that Maharaj was talking about is only for thoughts,

Feelings,

Sensations,

Perceptions,

That off-site sounds,

Melodies,

Touch.

Only their birth and death gives me a glimpse in that gap between the two that,

Gap between the two that,

Oh there is something more.

Now take your attention to the gap between the two.

Just stay in the void.

You'll recognize it's not just a gap.

It is the whole sea,

The infinite ocean in which all this is coming and going.

So now drop your attention on these,

From these to the ocean.

Move it to the ocean and just focus on that,

The primordial awareness.

In that only the sense of I am comes up.

That is the witness consciousness.

Don't give attention to the witness consciousness also now.

Now we go beyond the primordial appearance.

At witness consciousness level,

There is the witness and the witnessed.

And the moment the position of the witness is lost,

It becomes the knower,

The perceiver of the perceived,

The reactor to the reaction.

Yes?

So you're still at the witness consciousness level where you lose the witnessing position and you become the reactor to the reaction.

At the primordial awareness level,

Nothing,

There is no ripple,

Nothing disturbs.

Okay.

So it is another level.

You're still stuck at the witness consciousness.

Let go,

Let go,

Let go.

Dwaitam,

Lot of Dwaitam influence that recognize that.

Dwaitam influence.

You will have to let go of Dwaitam.

There's duality in practice,

Duality in belief,

Duality in conditioning.

Till the time there is interest here in this perception of sight,

Sound,

Smell,

Taste,

Touch,

You cannot go in that direction.

That is the opposite direction of this.

So if there's a ripple means your focus is still here.

I'm saying turn inwards,

Ignore this.

You're not able to ignore because you're still spotlighting this way.

I'm saying withdraw,

Turn inwards.

It's not even like an ardent desire.

Understand that's all you know.

All your life you've only been in cravings and fears,

Cravings and fears,

Cravings and fears.

So that's all you know.

So a teacher like Maharaj has to explain it only in the language that you know.

Even if it transforms to something else,

He will find it very difficult to coin a new word that is not there in your dictionary.

So he has to use the same words.

Similarly,

Like I explain today.

Ask any other lay person outside this Nirsargadatta group,

They'll be like,

What?

How can Maryada be that?

Because there is no word in any language on the planet earth to describe that the mind is controlling the body.

There is nothing like that existing.

Science does not accept this fact.

How can you even have such?

It's a hypothetical concept.

It's a fantasy for them.

Do you understand the limitation?

There is no word.

So Maryada is just a word that Maharaj used.

It was translated into self-control into English,

Totally taken out of context.

Somebody who's reading this book without a proper understanding or proper experientially going within will get totally lost.

So similarly,

We have to use the words that you know to bring you to this side.

When you come to this side,

You start recognizing that,

Yeah,

It was that Tadmuri initially,

But when it comes here,

I recognize,

Oh,

I am that what I am calling Tadmuri.

I am that what I'm calling desire.

I am that which in which fear arises.

So,

There is no more Dwaitam left here.

The Dwaitam dissolves.

It becomes Advaitam and there is no word to explain it again.

That is why you're not feeling the desire and feeling the oneness because it is dissolving into the Advaitam.

So,

Again,

There is no word in the dictionary to talk about this other than say Advaitam,

Which does not still convey it.

Only somebody who experientially gets there through his own Aparoksha Jnana recognizes it.

Got it?

So,

Now there'll be lots of such things which will have to be elaborately explained.

Some weird word is used for it,

But it really means something else experientially.

This is going to happen more and more as we move ahead.

So,

There are three levels of reality.

The transactional reality,

Which is Vyavarik,

Which is at this body-mind level.

Then the second level of reality,

Which is at the mind level,

Where I create imaginations,

Where dreams are created.

That is Abhas,

Which is Pratibhasic level of reality.

And the third is Paramarthic level of reality,

Where I'm very,

Very clear that there is just the awareness.

You remember these three realities?

So,

He's asking that our Aparoksha,

Aparoksha and Pratyaksha,

Can you draw a parallel between these realities and the three kinds of Jnanas?

So,

At the transactional level,

At the Vyavarik level,

Is whatever Jnana I get through the five senses,

That is Pratyaksha Jnana.

Pratyaksha Jnana is nothing else but what is conveyed through this Vyavarik reality.

Clear?

Then we go to the next,

The Aparoksha.

Aparoksha is nothing but inferences that are drawn,

Assumptions that are made.

All this happens at the mind level.

Where is that mind level?

It is Pratibhasic reality.

And the third is the Paramarthic reality,

Where there is just direct experience.

I am the witness consciousness.

And whatever I see in my direct experience,

That is Aparoksha Jnana.

And finally,

Is Shravanam,

Vananam and Vidyasanam,

Can they also take a form of Pratyaksha,

Aparoksha and Aparoksha?

Yes.

In a way,

You can say that because through the five senses only I perceive knowledge which is Shravana.

Shravana is nothing else but perceiving the knowledge the first time,

Then I contemplate on it.

And contemplation usually involves only what I know from before.

So from before I know only I am assuming certain things,

I am drawing inferences,

Or maybe it is one plus one is equal to three,

Maybe it is like this,

Maybe it is like that.

So I am contemplating on my own.

That is Manana,

Which is equivalent to Pratyabhasic reality equivalent to Paroksha Jnana.

And then Nidhidhyasa is where I really get established in my direct experience of Paramarthic reality.

And I get the Aparoksha Jnana,

Which is my direct experience.

Direct experience always drops the Paroksha,

Which is inferences and assumptions and drops the Pratyaksha and only looks at purely my direct experience.

My direct experience was my I,

I the witness,

Not I the body-mind,

Dropping the person.

Buddha says you have to see what pure he is,

The pure perception,

Not mixing any ideas and other things,

Pure Sanyam.

Pure Vijnana.

Vijnana,

Sorry,

Pure Vijnana,

Not Sanyam.

Yes,

Buddha's knowledge is also exactly the same.

So if you've done it,

He explains it to you how projection happens through the 12 dependent origination steps.

In that one is Vijnana.

And when you get into rolling,

You get into rolling of the 12 steps.

That is how projection happens.

And if you just stay as the witness,

You will stay at the first step of Vijnana.

It's not the first.

It's actually the third.

Ignorance has happened.

I have forgotten who I really was.

And I have become the sense of I am.

There you can stop,

He says.

Pure Vijnana.

It's exactly the same.

You can draw very good parallel between all the Buddha's knowledge and Advaita Vedanta.

It is said,

I don't know,

It is said like this that Advaita Vedanta really did not exist before Buddha's path was given.

And it is a take off on all Buddha's knowledge.

But we don't know.

There's so many contradictions out there.

So many people say so many things.

So they say that Advaita Vedanta is an offshoot of Buddha's knowledge.

It did not really exist before that.

And I also realized today that everything that Maharaj was taking in this chapter led to the fact that everything is just a thought.

Really he is just moving us into that direction.

Everything at the end is just a thought.

Yes,

Yes.

Of course,

He's going to take you finally to Ajatavada.

Both Maharaj and Atmananda both take you finally towards that same direction that everything is a thought.

There is no proof of any creation.

There is no creation in the end,

He'll say.

What creation?