How To Heal With Sound

I'm Alexandra Kreis and you're listening to Outer Travel Inner Journey.

In my own search for self-understanding,

I have met people from all walks of life.

I bring to you a taste of these encounters.

Welcome back to Outer Travel Inner Journey with me,

Alexandra,

And today's guest on the show,

Dr.

Daisy Bowman.

Here we are,

Daisy.

Welcome to the show.

Thank you so much.

Let's conjure what's behind the doctor.

It's a real doctor,

Isn't it?

Were you.

.

.

Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah.

So,

I worked for about five years in various hospitals in England.

Yeah.

So,

A junior doctor.

I don't know what the equivalent in Germany is,

But.

.

.

So,

I hadn't committed to a specialty as such,

But I was a working doctor.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And now you're living in Germany.

So,

You moved to the countryside to the south of Germany,

Right?

Yes.

Yeah.

And you changed profession because now you are an Ayurvedic practitioner.

And it says here you're specializing in conscious sound and music and all means of self-empowerment to harmonize and find joy.

So,

I know we said earlier we're almost doing the same thing,

Yoga and Ayurveda,

But Ayurveda has so many facets.

And I like that you chose the sound.

Can we kind of talk a little bit about it?

Why is it a specialty in Ayurveda or why do you think it's a specialty or what makes it a specialty to you?

So,

I mean,

Just to go back to the whole doctor side of things first,

Just because as you bring it up regarding sound,

And I've been contemplating this the last days,

It is how it relates to our mind and our state of how we can maintain a mental balance and clarity in this kind of increasingly crazy digital world.

I mean,

AI is also coming in now.

There's such an intensity about it.

And it's even as a yogi,

A meditator,

All these kind of labels and practices we've done,

It's walking a tightrope all the time.

And so when I was a doctor,

I mean,

What I wanted to do when I first signed up to medical school,

I felt I wanted to do psychiatry,

Which was all about,

Obviously,

The mind.

And I always felt that those with mental health problems have kind of broken certain boundaries of societal norms and touched something that's a little bit outside of the box,

Which I felt really relating to that in a certain way as well.

But what I found when I started my training in psychiatry was that it was just what I thought was a calling was kind of a black hole of infrastructure that doesn't serve a healing intention.

And I couldn't thrive in that environment,

Basically.

And throughout my journey as a yogi and going deeper into these practices,

I discovered Ayurveda and went on my own healing journey,

Of course.

And alongside that,

Also discovered Kirtan and mantra.

And several teachers told me,

You know,

This is your path.

This is your way in.

One teacher specifically said that to me.

I think this could be your way in.

And another teacher also encouraged me to really refine and use the sounds and evoke certain emotions through Indian ragas.

I know you also have been practicing with the ragas as well and also just the pure sound of Aum.

And so I went really deep into the sound of Aum in the last years,

Just chanting it every day and then moving into the Bija mantras,

Which are like the blueprint sounds of nature.

And then when I went into the Ayurveda practice,

Obviously discovered,

Well,

For those who aren't familiar with Ayurveda,

The building blocks are the five elements which relate to these five Bija mantra sounds as well.

And I just found Ayurveda so,

It was just awesome.

And it was the first time I actually felt like I'm a doctor now.

When I speak to patients,

I felt like I'm actually helpful and giving them something that's useful to the feeling of well-being.

And whether it's spiritual well-being or just emotional or physical,

Doesn't matter.

It was really actually working.

And I felt good doing that as well.

And what I've noticed is that many people come with anxiety and tendencies to go into dips of depression.

And even if they don't have those things per se,

Many,

Many people say to me that the mind is just like crazy,

Bonkers all the time.

And I have been finding over the last few years that progressively my mind,

Which has always been this kind of like crazy monkey mind,

Of course,

Started to really,

Really pacify through the practice of the regular practice of sound and chanting Om.

And it was a really great surprise to me that one fine day I kind of looked around and was like,

Oh,

I'm not really chasing my emotions anymore.

I'm not indulging in my emotional highs and lows anymore,

Which was always my kind of Achilles heel,

If you know what I mean.

Everybody's.

Yeah,

Everybody's.

Yeah.

But I really would go to extremes,

Like really high highs,

Really low lows,

Just this kind of constant drama,

Constant drama.

And then this Om,

The chanting of the Om,

It just did something on so many levels.

And so I've just been exploring that,

Really trying to create certain practices and weaving it together.

You know,

I'm only a freshly baked Ayurvedic practitioner.

I've just finished my level two.

So I've been practicing for a couple of years now.

But so now I'm,

Yeah,

I guess I'm in this stage now where I'm really trying to weave the two together and find out how to present this for people and also deepen in my own journey of it,

If that makes sense.

Yeah,

I love it.

And I think we need to clarify some of the language for you already used.

Okay,

So you talked about Om,

Which I want to talk about in a moment.

So we want to come back to this,

Dear listener,

In a moment's time.

But so Bija,

I think not many people would know that.

And,

You know,

Mantra.

Mantra is just a word that is,

You know,

Usually in Sanskrit and is infused with a certain part of the body or is infused with a sound that is recreated in the body as a vibration.

That's how I would explain it.

Or maybe you can say a little bit more to that.

Yeah,

Absolutely.

So I try not to go into too detailed of an explanation because it's so experiential.

So,

Of course,

Bija means seed and Om is also considered to be a Bija mantra,

The ultimate Bija mantra,

So to speak.

But they are sounds which have been heard from sages through the ages,

When they are in deep meditative states and in the silence,

Out of the silence come these almost blueprints of sounds so subtle that we can't,

You know,

Really say they are these sounds,

But then they come out like this.

So it's the closest thing to the sounds that are heard by those sages.

And there is a principle in sound,

Healing sound,

Using sound for treatment.

And in these contexts where you can tune others to the frequencies of the sounds,

You can tune yourself.

So there's something like the Mozart effect where it's said that these are divine sounds that have been downloaded through Mozart.

And then through listening to that,

You can become in tune with the universe in that regard.

So it's a similar principle.

And on another level,

There's where they have two metronomes in a room clicking and they will eventually go together tuning.

So this is also when we're in a group setting and chanting together that we all start to move into the same frequency because of the sounds.

They are communicating with each other because we are all made of sound ultimately.

Yeah,

Sorry about that.

Yeah,

I found it really funny,

Daisy.

I can say Daisy,

Right?

Of course.

That I was just thinking about when I started yoga,

You know,

That was not even the 70s.

It was in the 90s.

But in Germany,

It wasn't well known.

And,

You know,

A lot of people thought like yoga and those hippies,

You know,

It was like not the good men.

It was like some sort of tool to enlightenment or to get in touch with God,

Really.

You know,

That's what they were saying.

It's like not it's not right because hippies are just super duper crazy.

Right.

And and then that became suddenly a path in the West where everybody was like attracted to this physicality and expressing yourself and experiencing yourself in physicality.

And then to to some of us to find that it's even going deeper,

You know,

And then everybody okayed the yoga.

And then everybody started okaying Ayurveda even,

You know,

Even though it's like the Indian healing system or the sister system to yoga.

And now we are coming up with this mantra thing,

You know,

And I think we're back to everybody thinks it's a hippie thing.

You know,

All these.

Oh,

You know,

Like and I'm not making fun of you.

I'm just saying how wicked,

You know,

The universe can be with like when we start to attach to one of those methods and then we start to consume it and shape it into forms of commerce,

You know,

And forms of taking the magic pill to feel better,

Which a lot of us have done.

You know,

We started doing it to feel better.

And then we kind of got some of us got stuck on a plane on a certain plane,

You know,

And then the next thing came up.

And now it's Ayurveda and how you eat and when you eat.

And this has gone into mainstream.

And,

You know,

I find that the kirtan and the sound healing is surfacing more and more.

You know,

It's it's in this kind of gray shade of being acknowledged and coming to the surface.

And then and at the same time,

You know,

You can see how it becomes more commercialized in one sense and it still loses the depth for some people.

And I I'm just saying this as an awareness around what you were trying to talk about here.

This this rupture that also is being mirrored by the AI movement,

You know,

That idea of artificial intelligence kind of replacing everything we want in life and need to do in life and making it more comfortable.

So in the same way,

We can use these tools to feel more comfortable,

You know,

But there we are.

We are par with whatever is going to rise from AI.

And this is,

I think,

Where you and I and everybody who has an interest to step deeper,

Really,

You know,

It is.

And the research has a real chance to start this inner communication that you've given us already by saying what chanting Aum alone,

You know,

Has brought to your life.

So what comes up when I talk about it like that for you?

Yeah,

A few things.

So the first thing about this commercialization and this commoditization of everything.

And at first I was also,

Oh,

God,

You know,

It's just mad kind of thing.

But I think that's just going to always be the case that everybody does something different with with everything.

And I used to,

You know,

I had always had such an intense longing in my heart for something more.

I didn't know really what that was.

And when I found the yoga,

It was like the match was lit the dry wood.

And it was like I give myself 100 percent into this process.

Didn't matter how messy it got,

All the everything I had to go through.

There was this intensity that would take me through each time because I just knew in my heart like that I am seeking something.

And to just trust that also when the right teachers have just come to me and I have never had to look for it because life is supporting this inner process.

And at first,

Of course,

I was like,

Everybody has to see the truth,

Has to,

You know,

Want this.

And one day I kind of realized that everybody's not looking,

Actually,

And that's OK.

And even those who are maybe not so intense as,

You know,

Whatever I have,

Maybe there's someone more intensely committed.

And and it's just fine to be like that in a way.

And so this I guess that's my that's one side.

And it's it gives me really a great appreciation for those who really do have the integrity and those who have maintained it through such a long inner journey to be able to pass that on in with full integrity and with full with,

You know,

As a download of grace.

And you feel that touch when you meet those beings.

And I'm really blessed to have met such beings along my journey so far,

You know,

And they really inspire something that's beyond words.

They touch something completely beyond what is said,

What is presented in front.

You know,

So and I even think about the first time I heard a mantra called the Gayatri Mantra.

Probably many listeners have heard of this,

Maybe some not,

But it's really the mantra that comes out of Aum.

And I first heard this chanted and it did something.

And I had no idea what this meant.

I just felt something stirred in deep within.

And so this kind of leads me in a way to the AI side of things.

I've been really pondering it because,

I mean,

It's incredible that what's being created out of the AI.

You can say make a man,

You know,

Instead of a woman in the girl with the pearl earring or even a ferret or something like that.

And it will create this painting that looks like it's done with a human.

And even sounds now are being created.

But the thing about sound where it's used with conscious intent or conscious healing intent is this word intent.

And that sound can carry some very subtle imprints of this heart's intention.

And there is a phenomenon about the connectivity of the heart,

Which is very difficult or,

In fact,

Impossible to measure.

And it just makes me really wonder,

Is this ever going to be possible that AI can carry the imprint of the heart through sound,

Through any of that?

Maybe we're not always able to detect those things,

But it's really that's on one side.

So I was pondering it.

And on another side,

It gives a feeling that it's even more urgent that we start to recognize what's contained in our own voices,

In our own hearts,

In the sounds that are subtle.

In these expressions which are between the lines,

Because very soon probably everything's going to be taken care of on these kind of material,

Factual knowledge level.

And we really have to tune into these subtle frequencies which bring this much more intimate connection with life itself,

With nature itself.

So it's really a big question mark,

But it's intensified in a way my curiosity about the role of sound now,

Because the third side of it is,

And just bringing it back to,

It is experiential.

And we have to have experiences to have a meaningful understanding of something or to move through something.

Somebody can't just tell you,

Oh,

Calm down,

If you're feeling stressed.

You're like,

Oh,

Okay,

I know I should calm down.

I know I should take a breath and I know I should just watch the thoughts and be calm.

When you chant Om,

For example,

I'm not saying it's the only way to create calmness,

But you are chanting a sound which is fundamental to existence and your own essence,

The universal essence.

And as you chant it,

Every cell in your body vibrates with it.

Every subtle wave in your mind and body starts to hum with the sound of Om.

And doing that enough,

You feel your body and mind come to calm without even needing to say,

Oh,

Calm down.

And through having this conscious sound creative process of making the sound,

You're also observing and creating an experience which is immersive and it's harmonizing and observing at the same time.

So you are being this witness at the same time,

Creating the conditions where it's easy to witness,

If that makes sense.

And the other aspect is you're working with waves itself and everything is a wave.

No matter how gross or subtle,

Everything is a wave.

And so when you come to work with sound,

It's like you become the artist of the waves.

It's like the artist of the universe or it's your medium you become familiar with.

And so you watch yourself creating waves and then you see the waves of thoughts coming in.

You see waves of emotions coming in,

Strong,

Big ones,

Small ones,

You know,

Some as big as your head kind of thing.

But it's like that and that witnessing capacity starts to grow as well as your harmonizing of your system.

You get empowered slowly,

Slowly through this.

And so that's the kind of third thing that came up when you were speaking about all those things and just why I love to work with sound so much and why I feel it's so important now.

Yeah.

And it's so cheap and it's like it's free,

You know,

Like you don't need any funding.

You know,

You can also sit down with the next download from an OM and try to recreate it or just listen to it.

You know,

It's like this is the conundrum of our modern times.

You know,

I was talking to somebody this morning about it.

Even I have still after all these years of practice,

You know,

Three decades of practice at this point,

You know,

I can easily run into my impatience at times.

And what the impatience brings is like the want to change immediately.

Let's say,

You know,

You have a toothache.

Yes,

You want that toothache to be gone.

Everybody understands because it takes away from your energy.

It takes away from your focus.

And so,

Yeah,

I want the aspirin.

I'm not saying anything against medication,

But I'm saying that in these phenomena that we call imbalances,

These eases,

You know,

In Ayurveda,

This kind of where we're out of ease.

In these phenomenas where we can find ourselves early enough observing symptoms,

You know,

That we can easily remedy with something from nature.

Maybe a chant of an OM or maybe just lubing a little bit our nostrils,

You know,

So that we can stop the allergy kind of taking full blow or whatever it is.

It needs that intention inwards.

And impatience is what takes us outwards,

You know,

Or what takes me outwards.

It's like,

You know,

Like I want a solution now so I can speed ahead,

You know,

Of what is.

And the chance and the curse for me in AI,

Just to swing it around to that piece,

Is that we will find that we have more time even on our hands.

And how do we want to spend that?

And a lot of us are afraid of spending it with ourselves,

To be honest.

You know,

That's what I can hear more and more and which kind of ripples through even when I talk to people that I coach,

You know.

It's almost like they are afraid about themselves,

You know,

Like you could relate to that and I can relate to that.

The racing mind like horses,

You know,

In the night and aging women have it,

You know,

Like when you come into menopause and suddenly awake at night and the racing horses come along.

And whatever or wherever we are in this day and age through COVID,

Through,

You know,

Poverty,

Through war,

Whatever is kind of looming around us and at the horizon is unpleasant for us to observe.

And so to observe ourselves in that is not everybody's forte.

And this is where AI kind of brings us in one way ease.

You know,

We get a lot of taken from our hands.

You know,

We might not have to deal with Alzheimer patients that repeat and repeat and repeat,

You know,

Stories.

But we have somebody who is serving them with a lot of patience,

So to speak.

On the other hand side,

When we get more time at our hands,

What are we going to do with it?

Are we just going to consume the next best movie?

Are we consume more food?

Are we going to consume more of nature?

It's a very interesting topic to me in that way,

You know,

Like this is the we are at that.

To me,

We are at this cusp,

You know,

In this day and age of needing and the big teachers really talk about it,

You know,

Like the needing to wake up to this,

You know,

To this just being friendly.

Let's call it friendly,

Intentful,

Experiential,

You know,

Like or wanting to experiment with ourselves.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think the two things came to me.

Well,

Three things.

When you were speaking about that just now,

In a way,

It was first about just makes me appreciate the kind of fundamental tenets of the Ayurveda,

Which way you consider as a practitioner.

What is your really your purpose in doing this?

Dharma,

Atta,

Karma,

Moksha.

So Dharma is your true purpose.

Atta is living with wealth,

You know,

That you're allowed to earn and live well from that which is your gift and which you are there to serve.

Karma is to enjoy sensory experience of the world.

And it's said that if you are bringing these three into balance and really nurturing them,

The Moksha,

Liberation,

Takes care of itself.

And so this kind of question about,

You know,

What we are really here for.

It's like it feels like this is another way that Ayurveda is not just for healing the,

You know,

Aches and pains,

Arthritis and all of that kind of thing.

But it's so fundamental and it brings back to this kind of question and whether people are asking that or not.

And it doesn't really matter,

You know,

In a sense when I meet someone in front of me,

For example,

Because I try to put it in a language that everybody can understand,

Which is.

And this has led me towards creativity,

Understanding our need.

Really,

It's so urgent to be a creative being.

And I don't feel any more that,

You know,

That anybody is not creative.

I think everybody has that something in them that wants to create and be childlike and be like,

You know,

A free bird inside.

It's just that,

You know,

Of course,

In Ayurveda,

We have got Vata Dosha,

Which I often give the analogy.

It's like a bird or a butterfly,

Which is,

You know,

If this bird is free or this butterfly is free,

It can just go here,

There and be,

You know,

Enjoy life.

But the moment you put some kind of pressure or cage on it,

It's getting very aggravated and very like panicky and anxious.

And this kind of describes this restless state that most of us find ourselves in a lot of the time.

But this bird,

This Vata constitution or tendency,

It's also representing creativity and this original,

Unique expression.

And so just to bring it back to also sound as well,

Which is what I love,

Because,

You know,

You relate all of these things to elements and Vata is representing air and ether,

Space.

So and this relates to sound.

The each of the I hope this is not too complicated for you.

Yeah.

So the element of sound,

Sound is related to ether.

And so each of the sensory objects have got an element related to them.

So sound is related to ether.

And in fact,

Your last guest,

He was talking about music as the fifth element.

I was amazed because he didn't have any Ayurveda background and he had come to that completely on his own.

That music comes out of this most subtle space.

And I really find that on this level,

The sound is calming this Vata dosha,

This calming,

This bird,

This child inside and making the present moment with ourselves more palatable,

More bearable,

Because you can just rest in silence.

You can come back to stillness.

And my last teacher,

He was always talking to me about drinking the silence,

Sipping the silence through the sound.

So behind every sound is silence.

And at first you won't.

It's like when you first try a sip of alcohol and you're a teenager,

You're like,

What's this?

But then because your friends are doing it as well,

You're like,

Oh,

OK,

Drink more and more.

And then you acquire the taste for that.

And it was really like that when we were chanting mantras and kirtans.

At the end is this silent space afterwards.

And it's so charged with all the mantras vibrating the air and the space around.

And it's so easy to sink into a silence with yourself into the heart and which is not really accessible normally.

And so I've been really exploring the different spaces that create more restlessness or create more stillness.

And which practices bring you really to this silent.

And,

Yeah,

This is the place that we always end up anyway with whether we're traveling here,

Traveling there.

You know,

We're always with ourselves,

As we know.

And so we have to really make this space a nice one,

A good one.

And so this leads me to the third point.

And I shared it with a few of my in my yoga class the other day because I realized that narrative between inside my head and most a lot of people's heads is very critical,

Very,

Very critical.

And I used to just beat myself up all the time,

You know,

Give myself such a hard time about everything.

I'm not saying I'm completely immune to doing that now.

But one experiment and I love that you pointed out this kind of need for experimentation with ourselves,

Because I think this is really what keeps the kind of curiosity and joy in the whole process and not too rigid and dogmatic.

But one experiment I kind of just came to me one a few years ago,

About maybe five,

Six years ago,

Was just to start speaking to myself like I'm my own child.

You know,

Out loud sometimes I would be like,

Come on,

Darling,

We can do this.

Let's go over here,

Especially if something was difficult.

I didn't want to do it.

I would actually imagine that I'm taking myself by the hand and putting my arm around myself and saying,

We can do this.

Don't worry,

I'm here.

I've got you.

And this has done something really,

Really good inside of me to,

You know,

Soothe this critic,

This inner critic.

And I've worked with it in different ways.

But again,

It's sound.

It's the voices of our own head,

You know,

The different,

You know,

The voices inside our heads.

And we've got no clarity about where these voices are coming from.

Who is this voice?

Not that you have to go to the root of it.

Oh,

It's because of my childhood or,

You know,

This trauma or however used to speak to me like that.

It doesn't really matter.

It's just when we can find a way to sink a little bit deeper and speak to ourselves from there and create a more joyful inner conditions that makes it easier to just be alone and to move forward like that.

So,

Yeah,

It's just responding to.

Yeah.

And thank you.

And I've been at it for a long time now,

I feel.

And I think you've done almost the sum up.

But if there is a gift you could give to the listener right now,

What would it be like,

You know,

A pearl of wisdom?

I think you already gave a lot,

But maybe there is something that kind of comes up for you.

I would say use sound,

Use your voice to access the silent space within and ask the big questions to this space and see where it leads you.

Nice.

And I can only encourage you if you're seeking for this.

Thank you for your time today,

Daisy.

It was really an honor to have you and your loving kindness,

You know,

On the subject.

And yeah,

Thank you.

Thank you.