Caring For The Caregivers | 9/28/21 — AUA Live With Denny Miu

Good morning,

Good evening,

Good afternoon.

Hi everyone,

Welcome to another episode of AUA,

Ask Us Anything.

Good afternoon,

Josh,

How are you?

Hold this,

Denny,

What's going on?

I'm doing well,

How about you?

Good,

Good,

So we had a,

We've been wanting to do this particular topic for a while and about caregiving,

Because both you and I have experience on caregiving.

And so the topic hasn't changed,

The format,

I wish we had started with this format,

Which is more of a round table.

And actually someone trying to get access to,

But.

Okay,

Well Denny,

While you do that,

I'll jump in here with my little disclaimer.

So depending on who all joins and what Denny and I say,

I just wanted to say that,

You know,

Obviously we're not doctors.

I mean,

That's pretty obvious.

And that this is not medical advice,

Anything you hear,

We're just sharing our thoughts and experiences and everything here,

I welcome feedback.

So,

You know,

If something is inaccurate,

Please write in and contact us so we can correct it,

Because I don't,

You know,

I don't really would rather not have wrong information out there,

Misleading information.

And the things,

At least I say,

Will be for your own research,

Your starting point in your own research,

Perhaps.

And that is not to believe or disbelieve anything we say,

But to,

You know,

Look into it for yourself,

Because ultimately everybody needs to see and know for their own selves,

Not just take what's said by honest face alone.

And then also,

You know,

Take what's helpful and leave the rest.

So anything that's not gonna be helpful for you,

Just leave it behind and you can take along what is helpful.

And as Danny is,

I guess,

Texting to you in here.

Yeah,

So we have a student March who's trying to get in and I don't know why the link doesn't work for her.

But anyway,

Just in the spirit of eco time,

Since Josh took a little bit of time for the disclaimer,

Let me do the anti disclaimer.

If you just,

If you follow what I said on the internet,

You are a bigger fool than you think you are,

Than I think you are,

Okay?

So this is your fault.

Yeah,

If you,

I'm full of shit and if you wanna follow me,

That's your problem.

Basically what I said,

Maybe not so many words,

But yeah.

Well,

Anyway,

The reason,

So anyway,

We had a different format in mind and in much effect,

I wish we had done the round table instead of interview.

The interview was a little bit too formal and I wish we had done this one.

And so people were trying to get in here and so I don't know why they can't get in.

Anyway.

Tell them to use a different browser,

Try a different browser.

I think it's a Chrome,

Use a Chrome based browser.

Yeah,

Well they,

March is actually on YouTube.

So she can see us,

She just can't join with the discussion.

So hopefully,

It could just be the browser that she's using.

But anyway,

I don't,

Yeah.

You can try a different browser.

Also,

You can chat in YouTube,

I think too.

And possibly we can read the chats too.

Danny,

Do you have that up to read,

The live chat in YouTube?

Yeah,

I am reading the chat.

Very well,

Okay.

Okay,

So here's my thought on what I'd like to do today.

And Josh,

Anybody can chime in and see if that's the right approach to you.

So I thought that since today's topic is caregiver round table,

Right?

Caregiving round table.

I thought that,

So what Josh and I was talking about is this,

That if we focus on the caregiving part,

It is so individualized.

In my case,

I'm caring for my dad who's diabetic and suffered from dementia.

Someone else might have some other problem.

So each of those are so individualized that it's actually very hard to find something in common.

Whereas the caregivers are practically the same.

We are actually suffering from the same problem,

Which is that there's just not a whole lot of support for us.

And so when I talk about the caregiver round table,

It's really meant for that.

It's really a peer support.

And consistent with what I've been calling the fellowship,

In the sense that I actually think of caregiving as a spiritual practice.

That's how I see it.

Now,

Originally we had scheduled for Samantha Nam to be our speaker to do the interview.

And so I had prepared this one slide,

Which came from her book,

Came from her book,

Which is,

And you can just read that.

I think it's a very good lesson.

And I've assumed that the answers lies in her book.

So if anyone who's interested,

They should look up what she has to say.

But Josh,

I want that list.

Is there one or two items that you'd like to talk about first?

You know what?

Maybe you can put the list back up then.

I don't know.

But the one thing that jumps out to me,

That's,

I don't know if it's on this list or not here.

Excuse me while I lean in,

Because of my nearsightedness.

The big thing I usually hear about a lot is this term,

Which I don't really find all that helpful,

At least once you kind of dissect it a little bit,

Is compassion fatigue.

Now,

I think that's kind of a misnomer,

Or I don't really feel that that's such a thing.

The reason it can seem that way,

It definitely,

But the thing is that there's not enough,

If that happens,

There's not enough self-compassion,

Right?

Because how do we meet something that needs compassion?

Well,

You meet it with compassion.

So if you're getting tired from compassion,

The only really thing that can be needed then is more compassion.

And at that point,

It's self-compassion.

Well,

I think that's an amazing question,

Josh.

I think that's a great question.

So let me,

If I may,

Let me talk about my take on that.

So first of all,

Let me back up a step.

And so in studying Buddhism,

We talk about the four immerseurables.

So we talk about compassion,

Loving kindness,

Empathy,

And equanimity.

Question always is that what exactly is the difference between compassion?

Compassion and loving kindness is easier to explain because compassion is,

At least if I were to translate from Chinese,

Compassion is someone who's always there to want to solve problem,

Whereas loving kindness is not necessarily to solve people's problem,

But to just provide that feeling of love.

And so I always equate that to the mother and the father,

You run to your dad and your dad would solve the problem for you,

And then the mom would just give you the love.

It's not exact,

But that's sort of how I understood the difference.

The question then is that what is the difference between compassion and empathy?

Because again,

My generation,

I'm quite a bit older than you,

But in my generation,

Not only in terms of my age,

But also in terms of my background being from the third world and all that,

I would have to say that we don't really understand empathy all that much.

We understand compassion,

But we don't quite understand empathy.

So for example,

I often have to have this discussion,

My wife,

When the kids come to us,

We like to solve problem.

We just like,

This is what you do,

Dot,

Dot,

Dot,

Dot,

Dot,

And then like this and this and that.

Half the time,

Actually more than half the time,

All the time,

That's not what they want to hear.

That's not what they want to hear.

They just thought that they come to you and share with you,

And rather than sharing,

We just,

It's not like we want to shut off the conversation.

It's just that it's much more natural for us,

The way that we were brought up to just say,

Let's just solve the problem,

Move on.

So to me,

The difference between compassion and empathy is,

At least that's my interpretation,

Is that empathy is compassion without judgment,

Without judgment,

Because ultimately,

It leads to equanimity,

Which is equanimity is sensation without perception.

It's really using your spiral core so that you really understand what's going on without really making your own judgment,

Right?

So when you say compassion fatigue,

That's real.

That's real,

And so compassion fatigue is when you go on,

When you throw your entire being into what you do,

And then you find out that it's just way too much.

And whereas a lot of times,

You just have to kind of stand back and say,

Hey,

I am here to provide loving kindness without actually getting emotionally involved.

Does that make sense?

Yeah,

It does.

So I'll jump into my take on the Brahma Vihar is here too,

And that's interesting.

So to make sure that I understand the difference and so to make sure that I understand you're right,

The empathy part you said is caring without judgment,

Where compassion is caring with wanting to do something about it,

Right?

And then equanimity is kind of without perception,

Right?

Is that how you explained it?

Because those are new ways of understanding it for me.

I want to rehash that and get that.

I understand what you said,

And I understand that might be what you think I said.

I think that what I said might not be accurate.

It might not be,

Because it's a concept that's very,

Very difficult to explain.

So let me just back off and say,

In Buddhism,

We talk about Guanyin,

The Bodhisattva of mercy.

And I often explain to my parents or whoever else,

I said,

Have you ever noticed that Guanyin's eye is always looking down?

You walk up to the Guanyin statue,

You can never see her eye,

Because she doesn't care who you are.

She does not judge you.

She's not gonna say,

Oh,

Josh,

He's a good guy,

I'll help him.

Danny,

He's ex-con,

He just murdered someone.

I'm not gonna deal with that.

No,

As far as Guanyin is concerned,

As far as the Bodhisattva of mercy is concerned,

She does,

He or she does not judge.

Okay,

So to me,

Guanyin represents all four,

Compassion,

Loving kindness,

Empathy,

And equanimity.

Now,

How exactly do I differentiate that?

I don't know.

But the totality of that is what Guanyin represents.

Beautiful,

Lovely.

Yes,

And there's no,

Yeah,

It's just like,

Guanyin hears the cries of the world,

Right?

So the way I look at the Brahma Viharas,

Is through the Pali,

And what I've been taught and practiced too.

And I really like Danny's translation of Mudita as empathy.

It's often translated as vicarious joy.

I really like that one too.

So the thing is though,

That Mudita is celebration as well.

So it's being happy for other people's happiness,

Is the way it's kind of taught in the Theravada tradition.

Sympathetic joy.

So it's like,

I think the Dalai Lama once said something like,

Well,

There's how many billion people in the world?

Well,

That increases our chance for happiness,

If we can be happy for their happiness.

Now,

This is one of the most challenging things for me,

Is the Mudita,

Is being happy for people's happiness.

Jump in here.

Now,

This is the key.

This is the key.

Let's bring it back to caregiving.

Yes.

And let's bring it back to what you and I call,

Compassion fatigue.

So I'll use myself as an example.

In the past,

I talk about how my dad,

Who suffers from dementia,

He goes in and out.

Now more and more,

He doesn't recognize me.

There was a time when he recognized me,

And then he get confused.

He get confused when all of a sudden he see me taking up the needle,

Injecting insulin,

Or checking his blood,

Or all these technical things that I do.

He just,

He does not equate that with his son.

That's not the son that he knows.

So as soon as I do anything like that,

He thinks that I'm a worker.

And you can just tell,

Just his demeanor changes.

He's actually much more courteous,

Whereas me as his son,

Is the usual father and son kind of expression.

Now more and more,

I would say almost 100% now,

He doesn't recognize me as his son.

In fact,

Yesterday,

He even questioned my mom,

Because now he,

At least he recognize my mom as his wife.

And they recognize my,

He actually asked my wife,

Asked his wife,

My mom,

Why she call me her son.

She was totally confused.

He's totally confused about that.

Now the question is,

As a caregiver,

Typically this is very painful to see this kind of degeneration in your loved one.

And you really,

Really,

Really want that person to get better.

And so in addition to the physical caregiving,

There is the emotional caregiving,

Because you really want,

You want that,

You want that in return.

You know,

You like to be able to help your dad,

And then you really,

It's really good that if your dad recognizes you as your son,

As his son.

Now,

I actually use all my spiritual practice as a caregiver.

And so I practice equanimity.

I practice empathy.

I practice loving kindness.

I practice compassion.

So what you just said about empathy is happiness for the sake of other people's happiness?

Well,

That's not,

That's,

Okay,

So empathy is a little bit different than what I was talking about,

But the Pali word is mudita.

So you're translating it,

Or that's translation,

Empathy,

Which I don't think is wrong by any means.

I'm just however translating it as being happy for other people's happiness.

While empathy doesn't really judge,

It just feels what another person is feeling.

So you're,

You know,

You're putting yourself in their shoes.

And actually,

Here's a plug that I have an article coming up about Dharmic strategies for empaths.

It's the longest article I wrote.

It's in nine sections,

So stay tuned for that.

But anyway,

Going back to what Denny was saying,

You know,

The closest thing I came to this is when my grandmother,

She got the same type of way towards the end where she didn't even really know who anybody was anymore at all.

So,

I mean,

For me,

It's just,

At first it was annoying,

Right?

The family,

Our family was like,

You've told us that so many times.

You keep repeating the same thing over and over again.

And so it was like this kind of frustration in our family about her repeating the same things over and over.

And then also,

You know,

Forgetting things and just kind of the same repetitive behavior.

And so one thing it taught me is patience because how frustrating it was at first,

But then it just kind of got like,

Wow.

I mean,

This is really possible for the human mind to degrade this much.

And so I was looking for silver linings too to this.

And one thing I noticed about my grandmother is that there were some things she kept repeating that were really actually important in her life.

Some things about,

Let's just say,

An abusive situation she was in.

She would repeat that over and over to me.

And these are things that she had clung on to her whole life.

So this was a way that was kind of forcing her to let go of this.

Now I'm not saying this is gonna be the case in everybody's situation.

And this could be totally a delusion on my part,

I don't know.

But as it went on,

That story that she was clinging and complaining about over and over again,

It finally fell away at one point.

Although,

You know,

Obviously some more positive things like recognizing people also did too.

That was one silver lining.

The other one was just like Denny was saying with spiritual practice is just to be present with something that is just so unbearably unpleasant.

It just,

I don't,

It's just like this inner agitation that I was feeling when I was with her,

Hearing these things and being completely really oblivious to pretty much everything that was going on with her and around her.

The thing that I learned is that all living beings,

All living beings,

Whether it's human being or just,

You know,

Like a piece of grass,

The number one priority,

The number one priority is to survive.

So this is,

Back in the days when I was a junior professor at UCLA,

UCLA was kind of interesting.

It was first known as the Southern Campus of the University of California,

Berkeley.

That's what is known.

And then so it had to grow into the shadow of the number one campus,

Which is UC Berkeley,

Where I did my study.

And so by the time I got down to UCLA,

I noticed this is very different.

They pay a lot of attention on the landscape.

You know,

It's one of the most beautiful campus.

And it turns out that the chancellor actually started his day just walking on,

No,

Everybody knows that,

Walking along the campus,

They're making sure that all the landscapes are right.

He knows everybody.

He knows all the gardeners.

And so it's very,

Very meticulous.

I mean,

Just beautiful campus.

And so as I was walking to class,

I noticed that however much you try to mow the lawn or to kill the wheat,

They keep growing.

They just keep growing because all living beings want to stay alive,

Okay?

So I think one of the things that we underestimate is how people suffer from dementia find a way to survive.

So a lot of the pain that I see people express when they are with people with dementia are not from the patient.

That person like,

You know,

Became my dad.

I keep talking about my dad because he's the only person I know who suffer from.

He's not,

The problem is not,

He's not suffering from mental illness.

He's suffering from a brain deficiency.

So it's an extension of his diabetes.

So basically parts of his brain are not communicating.

So it's very interesting that he recognizes all his grandchildren.

He recognizes all his grandchildren.

But he doesn't recognize me or my brothers or my mom.

Most of the time,

You know,

Not even my mom.

And because for him in his brain,

He has a part where we were much younger than we are today.

And so he doesn't make the connection.

He doesn't understand how this could possibly be my son because my son used to look like this,

You know,

Because we just,

We just gotten so old,

You know.

And whereas the grandkids,

I think in his mind,

They don't change that much.

And so he recognized them.

So,

So he,

It's not like he's in pain,

Always worry about,

You know,

How come these people are not with me?

Because he even said that,

You know,

I don't understand why my three sons have abandoned me.

He said that,

He said that to me.

And now I can just take him and shake him and say,

You know,

I'm here,

I'm here.

Or I can just say,

Oh,

Wow,

I don't need it.

I just work here.

You know,

What comes to me is I wonder if it's just kind of like a regression,

You know,

It's going back into a childhood,

Childhood,

A childlike state for whatever reasons,

Maybe to resolve things in childhood,

Who knows?

I mean,

Now I'm sounding like an armchair psychologist.

But yeah,

Danny,

I just,

Wow.

I didn't know that until now,

What you just,

You just said.

So.

So,

So my,

My observation is that being a human being,

Even if you suffer from dementia,

You're still human.

The number one objective for human being or any kind of being is to survive.

So the thing that we underestimate is how much they have changed their existence just to survive.

Just to survive.

And so if,

If they have a question about why their family abandoned them,

And they have a equally important question about who are these people who are caring for me,

Instead of trying to find the,

The,

The,

The,

The answer,

In terms of trying to find that connection,

Which what you and I would think is,

You know,

It's right here and right here,

You know,

Put it together.

Because it's just too painful for them to put it together.

And so they will avoid that decision.

They would just say,

Okay,

Fine,

I'm going to put that aside.

And I'm just going to focus on how to just live day by day now,

Dealing with this new set of people who are actually here caring for me.

So most of the pain that I see,

I actually see this all the time when my relatives come visit my dad,

You know,

Like his,

His siblings.

And the first thing they would do is say,

Do you recognize me?

I'm so-and-so they even,

You know,

Bring pictures and say,

You know,

Do you remember this?

And I'm just like,

Shut the fuck up,

Get the fuck out of here.

You're just making more pain for them.

You know,

It's more,

It's actually more,

Why are you doing this?

He doesn't need any of this crap.

Well,

It's a,

It's a good point,

Denny.

And you know,

Another,

But,

But then again,

They don't know that.

So they have to be told that too.

They don't know that because,

Because they're not,

They're not a,

Nobody knows that.

Well,

That's right.

Nobody knows that.

Nobody knows that.

And,

And so when I talk about caring for the caregivers,

What I'm really talking about is how important it is to bring spiritual practice to the givers.

And this override.

It's the only way to survive.

There's no other way that you can help this person.

Okay?

Because caregiving,

Especially if you're not doing it as a profession,

See if you're doing it in a profession,

Then there's nothing like this.

There's no such thing as compassion fatigue because when you clock out,

You clock out.

This,

You know,

It's someone else's problem.

It's a different shift.

But when you came for your loved ones,

There is no clocking out.

That's right.

And so the compassion fatigue is part of the game.

And so how do you deal with that?

How do you deal with that?

The only way you can deal with that is to get on with the program,

Which is to get on with the spiritual practice that we've been talking about.

Well,

Absolutely.

You know,

We have to carve out time for ourselves to do that practice with a distance away from the caregiving,

At least if even just for a short amount of time.

It has to be right,

Denny?

You have to,

I mean,

You have to have some time away just a little bit for a spiritual practice,

Even though you're still doing the spiritual practice interwoven into it.

And so- Yeah,

Yeah.

So you can talk about,

You can think of the spiritual practice as downtime,

Just like caring for yourself and to have time where you can kind of say,

Hey,

I just need some downtime.

You can think of it like that.

That's the,

Back in the days,

When you used to go to Disneyland,

You get a book of tickets.

Okay,

So that's an A ticket.

So what's the E ticket,

Right?

The E ticket is the one that you get to do the miracle round,

The big rise.

So what's a big rise?

What is,

It just comes back to knowing the difference between pain and suffering.

That's it.

Knowing that,

Because when you,

What we call emotional pain is actually just physical pain,

Because this is the difference that your brain is physical.

The brain is part of the body.

So when we talk about,

Last time when we had Beth on the show,

We talked about physicality versus spirituality,

Materiality versus mentality.

The one thing that we have to make very clear is that the brain belongs to materiality.

The brain belongs to materiality.

So when you see someone and you're in pain,

You have to understand that that's still only physical pain.

That's still only physical pain,

But you continue to suffer,

Okay?

You continue to suffer.

It's when it gone beyond your brain.

It's actually gone beyond your brain.

There's a whole new world out there that is beyond your physical body.

When that part,

When that's the suffering part,

That is the suffering part,

Okay?

So you can't really do this without bringing in our Buddhist teaching.

You know,

We go around in circles trying to make this secular.

You can't do it.

You can't do it.

You really have to get into the core of the teaching of Buddha to really understand how to help a caregiver.

And it comes down to this.

It comes down to when Buddha became enlightened,

He did that under the Buddhist.

Being enlightened means that he finally elevated himself to a spiritual being beyond what we call the realm of desire beyond the body,

Beyond our eye,

Our nose,

Our mouth,

Our tongue,

Our body,

And our brain.

What he encountered was somebody called Mara,

Mara.

Now,

Who is Mara?

Mara is the person who's actually guarding the realm of desire.

So he is that person that his job is to prevent us from escaping the realm of desire.

He is the guy that wanna make sure that we are constantly suffering.

And the suffering,

A caregiver is the e-ticket to suffering.

Okay?

It is the e-ticket to suffering.

So how do you,

What is the solution?

You have to bring in the Buddhist teaching.

The Buddhist teaching is this.

It's just very simple.

That the way your mind works,

I'm not talking about the brain.

The way your mind works is we talk about the five skanders.

We talk about the form,

The sensation,

The perception,

The sakara,

And the consciousness.

Somewhere in there is going from mentality,

Somewhere in there is going from materiality to mentality.

That's when it actually,

The sensations get collected in the spiral core,

We call that sensation.

It get delivered to your brain,

We call that perception.

And then eventually it generate what's called mental factors,

The 51 mental factors.

What we call the kusela versus the e-kusela.

The kusela are the one that is wholesome or skillful,

And the e-kuselas are the one that is unwholesome.

And then we take out of the 51 mental factors,

More than two-third of them are unwholesome.

Then what we do is we summarize that into the five hindrances.

Okay,

When you're caring for someone,

Whether you are a caregiver or a care provider,

The five hindrances is right in front of you.

It is as clear as a book.

What causes suffering as a caregiver?

The first one is called clinging.

You are clinging to something that you prefer,

That is a good feeling.

It's the,

I cling to my father.

I think about how we used to spend time together when I was a child,

That he would hold my hand,

Walk me down the shore after work,

Talk to me about the movie we just watched,

Or he taught me how to ride a bicycle,

Or he taught me how to swim.

I cling to that,

I cling to that.

That's the first hindrances,

It's called clinging.

The second hindrances of that is either called aversion or ill will.

It's that when you encounter feeling or sensation or sensation that you don't like,

You react negatively.

You get upset either at the person or at yourself.

Most of the time when the caregivers are upset at the care at the caret receivers,

They are upset at themselves,

Okay?

They're upset at themselves.

So my mom and I are co-givers.

So I take two shifts,

She takes one shift.

I go there,

I wouldn't say that.

I take one and a half shifts,

She takes one and a half shifts so I break my shift into two.

Every morning from 7.

30 to nine o'clock,

I teach my Cantonese class.

My mom is actually one of my students and so as soon as I'm done,

I drive over.

I do the exact practice of my dad.

Then I let him do the exercise.

He rides on the stationary bicycle if he can.

Then I give him a shower and then I leave and my mom takes over,

Feed him,

Whatever.

Then I come back at around eight o'clock when they already sleep.

I work out my dad gave him the last medicine and then I sleep next to him and waking up in the middle of the night so he can go to the bathroom and then around five o'clock,

5.

30,

I leave.

Okay,

So we're co-givers.

As a spiritual practice,

I am just maybe half a step ahead of my mom,

Okay?

So I would explain these things to her and then she's finally catching on.

She's actually finally catching on that she said,

Well,

It really doesn't matter to me anymore if he remembers me.

It's,

I accepted it.

It's okay if he doesn't remember me as his wife.

It's not a problem.

She actually,

In Chinese,

Now she's someone who doesn't even read and write in Chinese.

You know,

She come from,

She's 84 years old.

She come from the era when women,

Girls in the Chinese societies are completely abandoned.

They don't get education.

So she doesn't even read and write in Chinese,

Let alone English.

She said to me,

She says,

I just gonna practice economics.

I said,

Whoa,

Holy crap.

This is like Buddha talking to me.

That's the only way you can survive is to really practice what Buddha teach about the source of suffering,

Break it down into the five hindrances.

The first one is clinging.

You have to understand that as a care givers,

All your pain and suffering comes from clinging.

You want to cling to something that in the past.

Totally did it.

Second one is because of the clinging,

You have aversion or ill will,

All the negativity.

Now,

It's really easy to understand clinging and aversion because if you ever visit a Tibetan temple,

They have this thing called the real life,

Which are the six rams,

Human,

Diva,

Hell,

Hungry,

Goat,

Animal and so forth.

And if you ever see that sign or you just look it up,

Google,

Look it up,

Real life,

Just focus in the middle.

The middle has a circle and there's three different animals.

One bites the tail,

The other.

There's a bird,

There's a snake,

And then there's a pig.

I'm just gonna explain the bird and the snake.

The bird actually came from,

The bird actually is extinct.

The bird came from North India.

It was a pet and the pet is known,

The pet is known to,

If the owner die,

The pet would just stop eating and die with the owner.

That is,

No wonder they extinct.

But the idea is that Buddha uses that animal to symbolize clinging,

Attachment.

Buddha uses the snake to symbolize aversion.

Aversion is not anger.

Aversion is really react negatively.

So if you ever step on a snake,

They're not gonna say,

Hey,

Wait a minute,

I know you don't mean it,

So next time I'm gonna bite your ass,

But not this time.

No,

They're not gonna do that.

They're not.

The only reaction is that they will react negatively.

That's why the snake is used for aversion.

So understand that.

Understand that all your suffering as a caregiver,

This is important because it turns out that statistically,

Anyone who has become a caregiver for family,

After the job is done,

They themselves will get into all kinds of health problems.

They with themselves,

Because it's such a stressful,

Such a stressful,

And it's not physical stress.

It's not just physical stress.

It's emotional stress.

So the only way that you can provide relief for the caregivers,

Again,

The topic today is how to care,

Caring for the givers,

Right?

Is to really bring that Buddhist teaching upfront and just say,

Here's what Buddha says,

Here's your source of suffering,

It's the five hindrances,

It's the attachment,

It's the aversion,

It's the,

What's the other three?

The other one,

They don't come in quite as much,

But they do a little bit.

They do.

I'll just name them and then I'll jump in here.

The sloth and torpor.

So those are old kind of words for just kind of lethargy,

Being really tired and sleepy.

And the other,

The fourth one is,

What are they,

Worry and restlessness,

Anxiousness,

That one can come in.

And then the fifth one is doubt.

No,

Actually,

If you change the wording to be more modern,

It's actually just depression and anxiety.

Yeah,

I mean,

That's something people can immediately relate with,

Yeah.

Sloth is more of the body and torpor is more the mind.

You could be depressed in body and mind.

Oh,

You're depressed all the time as a caregiver,

You're depressed all the time because initially you thought that you're making,

Doing good and then you say,

It's so out of control.

It's not gonna get better.

And so?

Yeah.

And so,

You know.

It's a fact that most people who,

Nobody can take care of a loved one until they die because at some point,

It's all your hand.

It's just,

It's too much for you.

It's too much for you.

That's right.

So like my dad,

Right now,

It's not so much incontinence.

It's just that he has a sensation,

But by the time he gets to the bathroom,

It's already too late.

You know,

So my mom has to jump in and clean up.

And my mom said,

And so I told my mom,

I said,

Look,

It's bad,

But it's not that bad because just think about what happens when dad is finally bedridden.

No,

At least he can walk.

We can help him into the bathtub and just shower him.

That's it.

And so my mom finally picked up and said,

Yeah,

It's okay,

It's okay.

We can do this,

We can do this.

That's right.

And we're gonna,

You know,

It seems like in life,

You know,

We have challenges,

But we're really hardly ever gonna be met with something that we can't handle.

I mean,

It can be really tough,

But we're gonna get kind of the degree that we can handle in the moment.

So,

Unfortunately that's gonna prepare you for when it may get worse.

So I wanted to say about Denny's thing about Buddhism that we have to go into Buddhism.

And I totally agree.

I wanna point out though,

The distinction here being that the term Buddhism,

That's a Western term.

You know,

Buddhism is not really a religion in the same sense.

It's an investigation into reality,

Seeing things as they actually are,

Right?

There's nothing to,

There's no requirements to believe or disbelieve anything.

There's no worship or anything like that in other religions.

Not that any of those things are necessarily bad,

But it's kind of a terminology that was given by Westerners as a religion.

Now,

Denny's thing about,

Now this has nothing to do with your dad so much,

But I see this more and more,

This survival programming,

I call it,

That if you go and look at TV and movies and content and,

There's this kind of push and program to survive at any cost.

And I totally get that.

I mean,

Obviously,

I mean,

You're kind of crazy if you don't want,

If you have a choice to live or die,

You're obviously gonna take them to live,

Right?

But it seems like it's been amped up to 11 now.

And this really just,

Denny mentioned Quan Yin,

And it just springs to mind these beautiful factors about these beings who are so selfless that they're there to help at any cost,

You know?

And this is such something to look up to.

And embody if we can,

When we can,

That,

You know,

That service and helping,

It's that important that we are,

It's more service to others instead of service to self,

Right?

We can all really immediately recognize when someone is a service to self being,

Right?

They will do anything at anybody's expense just for themselves to benefit.

All this service to others is we take care of ourselves so we can help others.

So that's one thing that brought up.

Now,

Denny's thing about pain and suffering,

The core of what he was talking about,

There's this,

I forget what Dharma teacher said this,

But they said,

Pain times resistance equals suffering.

So the more we resist the pain,

The more it turns into suffering.

Another quick point is that this word,

There's suffering in English,

That's a really strong word.

The Pali word is dukkha,

Right?

So it can also just be interpreted,

Translated as stress.

And even subtler,

It can be translated as unsatisfactoriness,

Like,

Oh,

This just really isn't doing it.

I mean,

This is okay for now,

But then I want this now,

And then I get that.

Well,

Then that's not good enough.

I want this and this and this.

And it's just like this feeling that this really isn't doing it for us.

A few other things circling back around.

I love how Demi and I can,

We could talk in more spirals instead of traditional linear thinking here.

So what this does,

I mean,

It did for me too,

And I kind of like deferred this to my grandmother when I was talking about that.

But actually it was bringing up things in me that I really didn't know was there.

Like I was not expecting myself to react and feel the way I felt when I was experiencing being around her and seeing her behavior,

Things she said,

Things she didn't say,

Things she did.

What came up in me,

It was really surprising of how I viewed that and responded to that and are just sometimes being just as bewildered as her about what to say or do or how to view it.

That was another thing.

And then I'm gonna let Demi jump in a little bit here,

But I wanna get back though to the Brahma Viharas because we all,

All this,

Life is hard.

Life isn't for sissies,

Right?

I mean,

Being a human being isn't easy.

And so that's why we deserve more love,

Not less.

And it's not a selfish love.

It's a love like the four flavors of love that are the Brahma Viharas,

Things that are actually beautiful and uplifting and very helpful,

Not just for ourselves,

But everyone around us,

Even if we don't practice it for others,

Even if we would just practice it for ourselves,

Everyone will come in contact with benefits from these practices.

So yeah,

I'm gonna let Demi jump in here,

But then I wanna get back to the Brahma Viharas and how important these can be.

And I know some of the talk on suffering,

They can be,

Oh,

You're these Buddhists,

They're party poopers.

A lot of this stuff is really kind of subtle and you have to have a steady practice,

Almost formal practice sometimes to see a lot of this stuff.

But the one thing that's immediately apparent to just about everybody is the Brahma Viharas,

Right?

And especially like the compassion,

If we,

Even if we can't have compassion,

We could have compassion for the fact that we don't have compassion right now,

That honesty is actually a form of self-love too.

Yeah,

No,

I agree with everything you said,

Josh.

I just wanted to come back to what you said earlier about compassion fatigue.

And so kind of draw a circle around everything that we said so far.

I think it all comes down to having the right skill,

Having skill,

That's the most important part is that it's not just about having the words so you could explain it and then think that you,

But it's actually having the skill.

And this is actually,

Yeah,

The skill is actually very,

Very simple.

The skill comes back to just mindful.

Okay,

Now the problem is this,

The problem is that the word,

The English word mindfulness is used in his abuses.

Everybody uses it for their own reason.

When we talk about mindfulness,

It's important to make the distinction between mindfulness as an English word and right mindfulness as a Buddhist concept.

So it's very important to bring that right mind.

So mindfulness is satay and right mindfulness is samasate.

And so since we're now talking about Buddhist teaching,

The most basic of the Buddhist teaching is the Four Noble Truths.

The Four Noble Truths basically is like the 12 steps program.

Here,

Understand suffering,

Know what is suffering,

Know where the source of suffering,

And here's the path to relieve yourself of suffering.

And so the path,

When it gets down to the last one,

The path kinda express itself into this Eight Noble Path.

And in that,

It's actually divided into three part and mindfulness is just one step in that.

And so mindfulness just means remember.

That's all it means.

It doesn't mean any more than that,

Remember.

So why is that such an important skill?

Is that if you have the training so that you always remember your mind,

Then you have a better chance of not degenerate into the Five Hindering.

So an example that I use is this,

And only because most of my students are grandmothers,

Including my mother.

And I said,

Now back in the days when you were a little younger and you used to help raise your grandchildren and you have to take them to school,

This is typical San Francisco neighborhood kinda activity.

Do you remember if you hold a hand?

And they would say,

Yeah,

Yeah,

Of course you hold a hand.

You hold a hand when you cross the street,

Right?

Yeah,

Of course,

Even on the sidewalk,

We hold the hand all the time.

Why is it that it's so important to hold a hand?

Well,

They say,

Well,

If you don't hold a hand,

They get run over by a car or they would run away and get kidnapped.

Ah,

That's what happens when you don't,

When you're not mindful of your mind.

When you don't know what your mind is,

It will get kidnapped by the hindrance,

Okay?

So the very first time that my dad had an accident and it was actually outside and so I quickly bring him to the men's room and he went into the stall and he closed the stall behind me and said,

No,

No,

Don't close.

I need to come in and help you because it's a big mess.

And he says,

No,

No,

No,

It's gonna smell really bad.

He said,

Dad,

Don't worry,

I smell my nose.

I don't smell with my mind.

That's true because just think how many people don't even realize they're smelling.

They're just reacting to unpleasantness,

Right?

I smell my nose.

So it's pain,

It's painful for my nose.

But since I know where my mind is,

My mind is on my body when I'm moving.

It's on my hand,

It's on my body,

It's on my breath.

My mind doesn't get kidnapped by the hindrances.

So it doesn't degenerate into suffering.

So I'm smelling the bad smell but I don't suffer from the bad smell.

So when you're a caregiver and you don't even have that basic skill,

Then you don't understand.

You have no way of discerning the difference between physical pain or even pain of your brain,

Your memory versus the true pain,

Which is the mental pain,

Which is beyond the body.

But if you do have that skill,

It's a simple skill.

It's really what we do every Saturday is as soon as we start exercise,

Adjust your body,

Calibrate your body,

Adjust your mind,

Calibrate your mind,

Put your mind in the center of your palm,

Raise your hand,

Focus on your wrist.

And guess what?

As you do that,

You become very sensitive to your body.

You become very sensitive to your breath.

And they're like the canary in the cave.

So as soon as your mental state degenerate,

You're the last to know because your mind is already somewhere else.

But your body says,

Hey,

Something's happening.

Something is happening.

And so you know how to bring it back.

You know how to bring it back.

And I love this metaphor of the holding the hand.

And this can also come out of love too.

It's like our mind is like a little child and we have to hold its hand because we care about it.

And we don't want it wandering off and getting in trouble when it just doesn't know any better.

It's not the kid's fault that it would do that.

It just hasn't grown up and matured and been trained and learned yet.

So we hold the hand until,

We can hold the hand of our mind too until it gets better training and we can show it love as well,

Right?

Until it gets some training like that.

Yeah.

The other thing I mentioned pain times resistance equals suffering.

Also,

This comes into the three characteristics.

One of a higher,

More,

I guess a higher teaching,

But it's also when pain happens to a me,

I can also,

Yeah,

Suffering.

So this is kind of like a strategy.

So when we look at the five aggregates and start breaking down,

Well,

What is this?

Is this really personal?

Is this pain really about me?

I don't know.

I would say not.

I would say that it's not happening to a permanent solid me because it's not gonna be constant like that forever.

But we automate,

Or a lot of times we automatically react and think,

Oh my goodness,

I'm in pain.

It's gonna be like this forever.

Usually when we experience pain.

And it's just,

It really tricks us a lot.

At least it does me like that.

Yeah,

So one other thing that maybe we should wrap it up now one thing that I would like to share,

Again,

Coming from my own experience is that.

I wanted to finish with the brahvahars though too,

But please go ahead Denny.

The thing that I like to share is that when you're caring for someone who's dying,

Now by the way,

We're all dying.

We're all gonna die.

It's just that this one is a little bit more obvious.

It's just dying in front of you.

In my case,

I'm not asking anybody else's,

But in my case,

I don't try to fix the problem.

There's no fixing death.

There's no way to avoid death.

So my objective is not to reverse death.

My objective is not even to think that someday it's gonna get better.

There's no getting better.

It's just gonna get worse.

Every day is gonna be worse.

So your good days already passed.

The good days is behind you.

So again,

This is my objective.

I'm not saying that anybody else should be doing this,

But I thought this through.

And so in my case,

It's about slowing down the deterioration but more important to that,

More important to that is that I want my dad to die with dignity.

That's what I can do is that I can give him a little bit more dignity.

Absolutely.

And it's so immediate for you now about that.

And just imagine a world where everybody showed everybody dignity as just a basic common human courtesy.

And I aspire to do that and live in a world where we should all show each other and express dignity and receive dignity too.

It's so very important.

As far as the death thing goes,

Yeah,

We have our ups and downs,

Highs and lows,

But that's one of the five things that we would have said to reflect on every day is that we haven't gone beyond death.

Death is gonna happen.

One of the,

I think it was J.

Krishnamurti that said one of the society's greatest illnesses is people seeing death happen all around them and not thinking it's gonna happen to them.

And so this is not to get bummed out.

This is to be in alignment with the truth.

And so when we're in alignment with the truth,

That can actually bring happiness.

We appreciate every moment we have is very precious and we can enjoy it more when we realize how immediate and how short this life is,

Right?

Yeah.

Well,

Also I appreciate what you just said and I wanna bring it back to something you said earlier about the word Buddhism.

Buddhism is not,

It's just another ism which is very unfortunate that when you say Buddhism,

Oh,

You said,

Oh,

I'm not a Buddhist,

I'm this and I'm that so therefore I'm not this one.

That's not,

Buddha was,

So the people who practice Buddhism,

We use the word Dharma and Dharma has different meaning.

It could mean the truth,

It could mean the path,

It could mean the teaching.

It's just depending on how you use the word Dharma.

And so if you wanna use the word Dharma as in truth,

Then it's essentially saying that everything has to die because that's quantum physics.

That the world consists of material and materiality and it consists of mentality or physicality versus spirituality.

Einstein says that the reason why we have time is because we have space.

So the beginning of the universe was the beginning of space and now that you have space,

You can travel and so now you have time.

The minute that you have time,

Then you can distinguish between materiality versus mentality.

So the minute that you understand that I am of the material world,

Then you have to die.

Yes,

Unfortunately in this realm that we're in at this current time,

That seems to be the case.

In fact,

That is the case.

So a Buddhist,

Someone who practice Buddhist teaching,

What we wanna do is to move away from the material world into the spiritual world because the spiritual world has no time.

And I would say we're also here to master physicality too and sometimes as we practice,

The spirit and matter can come together as well.

So I think that's another interesting fact.

Well,

I wanted to talk about the brahmaviharas again real quick.

You know,

The loving kindness is where it starts.

And this,

I like the term unstoppable friendliness.

I really like that.

So it's just a well-wishing for others.

I'll give you my phrases real quick.

May you be safe inside and out,

May be happy and joyful,

May be healthy and strong,

May you live knowing ease,

And may you realize awakening and be free.

So I'll just leave it there.

And the compassion phrases,

There's actually some formal compassion phrases that I'll use for myself and others.

And the first one is really important that it's just acknowledging the pain.

I acknowledge your pain.

The second one is I care about your pain,

At least to the ability that I'm able to right now.

May your pain release and may you know peace.

And also practical compassion is what can I do?

How can I help?

Is there anything I can do?

Now,

The one that the empathetic joy,

Or I like to call it vicarious joy,

There's some phrases that I use that are kind of the more formal ones are may your happiness continue,

May your happiness increase,

May your happiness never stop.

So it's kind of like a rejoicing for other people's happiness when it's that way.

And then the equanimity is kind of like the grandparent love,

Right?

The one where they've seen it all before,

They've already been through this before,

So it's kind of like a I care so much about you,

However,

You're your own person,

You have to make your own decisions and be responsible for your own decisions.

Okay,

Yes.

So Josh,

I think we should close.

And I wonder if I could close with just the following.

Please.

Just kind of picking up on what you said.

Let me go back to my small army of Cantonese speaking grandmother again.

And so I talk about how I use different examples,

Bring Dharma to them.

And so one of the way that I bring Dharma to them is I asked them,

This is back in the days that we actually doing face-to-face training practice.

And I said,

How's the sun today?

And they look up,

They think that I'm stupid,

They think I'm crazy.

And then they say,

There's no sun,

Right?

It must be crazy.

So I said,

Okay,

Well,

How was the sun yesterday?

And they said,

Oh,

The sun was good.

Yesterday the sun came out,

It was a good day.

And then I have to say,

You know what?

The sun was always there.

The sun shine upon you every day.

The difference is yesterday there were no cloud,

Today there is cloud.

So today we talk about the importance for caregivers,

The importance of providing caring for the giver.

The concept that we bring forth on one hand is called the four immeasurables,

The compassion,

The loving kindness,

The empathy and the economy.

On the other hand is the five hindrance,

Which are the clinging,

The aversion,

The depression,

The anxiety and the doubt.

Think of them as the sun and the cloud.

The sun shines upon you every day of the week,

Every week of the year.

That's what Josh and I focus.

That's why you can tell that we are sunny,

Every day is a sunny day for us,

Because that's what we focus on.

We focus on practicing the compassion,

The loving kindness,

The empathy,

And the economy.

That's the sun.

And we have learned some skills to push aside the cloud.

Not always,

Not entirely,

But at least we know what the cloud is.

The cloud is clinging,

Aversion,

Depression,

Anxiety and doubt.

And when you are caregiver,

You have to be very careful,

Because if you didn't have the skill,

The cloud is on you every day.

That's totally right.

And even when it's nighttime,

The sun is still shining.

It's nourishing the earth,

And the earth is nourishing you every moment.

So even when it seems like though,

Well,

You don't have,

I mean,

That's just a fact,

Right?

I mean,

You can't see it.

Everything's still living and the sun does that.

And so if the whole world's even against you,

The sun is still there nourishing you every moment of the day,

Every moment of the night indirectly.

So it's there and nourishing us.

And that's not to deny the clouds aren't there.

We don't pretend that they're not there and be Pollyanna-ish and deny what's bad.

It's just what the Buddha said was,

What you frequently think and ponder upon becomes the inclination of the mind.

So the more we focus on these beautiful states like the four immeasurables,

The more likely our mind is gonna be nourished and fed by those things.

So Denny,

It's been such a pleasure and a joy.

And it's so cool.

Thank you.

So if I may offer a meta chant to all fellow caregivers,

First in English,

Then in Pali,

May all beings be free from animosity and negative energy.

May all beings be free from mental suffering.

May all beings be from physical suffering.

May all be with joy and Sade Sata Avaya Hant Sabe Sata Ayapaja Hant Sabe Sata Anaga Hant Sabe Sata Sia Tano Pariharan Thank you,

Josh.

Thanks so much,

Denny.

Okay,

Until next time.

Bye bye.

Bye bye.