Claiming Your Power Back

For my Insight Timer friends,

Please note this track may include some topics that may be a trigger or any caution upon proceeding.

Triggering topics include alcohol and sexual abuse.

I hope that you enjoy the episode and that you find it useful.

Thank you.

Last week,

I shared that I would be talking about sex,

Relationships,

And dating after trauma.

While I did plan to upload a solo episode,

I ended up filming this episode of Liz from Resiliency and Running and thought that it would fit in perfectly.

I'll still record a solo episode about this topic and release it soon.

Liz,

Newcomer,

Is such a great person and friend.

She describes her show as relationships,

Career,

And all things running.

Liz has a really inspiring story of overcoming her coping mechanism of drinking and turning to running as her form of therapy.

She is running the London Marathon this year and honestly,

Kudos to her.

That's so cool.

In this episode,

Liz and I discuss her experience with sexual trauma,

The key moment when everything changed for her,

Her messages for listeners who have been sexually abused,

How forgiveness comes into play with sexual trauma,

What her recovery journey looks like,

And much more.

Hi Liz,

Thank you so much for being here with me today.

Of course.

Yeah,

I'm really excited to talk about this because sexual assault and trauma are so important and they really need to be talked about.

We need to take away the stigma.

I agree.

I agree totally.

Yeah.

So what is your experience with sexual trauma?

Yeah,

So I have had the experience of being sexually assaulted and it happened during my college years.

And so my second year in 2016,

I remember the exact date just because I think if anyone else has experienced sexual assault or trauma,

I think that that date always just sticks in your head.

And so I was sexually assaulted in February six,

2016.

And yeah,

I was sexually assaulted.

But then I went and pursued a Title Nine case at my university.

And so I worked with a tax collector and that person got expelled,

But it was a very long journey.

And I think there are a lot of different elements to it that I think we're going to discuss in this episode that I think a lot of survivors can relate to.

But I think that there's not just a lot of like discussion around it.

So I'm really happy that we're kind of opening the doors to this today.

And being you know so vulnerable it was it's not easy to relive these situations you know but hopefully it helps listeners out there so what were some of the mental effects of that experience Yeah,

It was definitely very mentally tough around just I think that there's definitely a a blame on yourself I guess and you I that that's what I experienced in the very beginning and kind of blaming yourself for it happening and blaming yourself for wearing certain clothes that night and blaming yourself for drinking too much and just like the list goes on but you know I think eventually I learned you know it's not your fault and it never is your fault and but I think just initially it was really hard mentally just to kind of accept myself and kind of say okay like this wasn't my fault you know and I think just also being able to come to terms with labeling that situation as sexual assault and using such big words to label it was really hard and I think especially going through that case and just like you said telling having to tell your story over and over is really tough and going through details using you know words like I don't know what you can say on your podcast but feel free to edit it out but like penis and vagina and just like things like that that are just like it just like it gets really into the intricate details of that event and I think but I think over time I really built a lot of resilience from you know going through that and especially being able to be lucky enough to win a case let alone you know go through one because I know that so many women and men you know try to come and like create a case or make a case that they're always told you know your case isn't good enough you don't have enough evidence and so I feel really fortunate to have had things go the way that they did for me but I think that there are just a lot of long-term effects as well that just over time really just took time to heal and heal through therapy and kind of being able to like trust men again and not just you know that specific person but just men in general and not feeling the overwhelming anger and just frustration with all men at all times and I that was something that I really dealt with yeah getting but over time it was something that you kind of you know you relearn and you also just relearn how to be physical with someone and how you know not to go back to that place I think that that was something that I experienced with like I went on one day and it was my first date since the sexual assault and I just remember he went in to kiss me at the end of the night and as soon as he put his hand on my back it was like I got sent back to that night for some reason it was just you know being able to kind of you know really like relearn and like be okay with like what you once enjoyed and learning that you know like finding fulfillment in it again and not being fearful of it there are just so many different psychological elements to sexual assault that I think aren't talked about totally that sounds really challenging but it seems like you've made a lot of progress yeah definitely yeah definitely there's so much that we could go on about here but I really want to talk about trusting and rebuilding trust tell me more about what that was like for you and how have you overcome some of the challenges with that yeah I think there's definitely a feeling of like feeling of like feeling discarded especially like after going through sexual assault and kind of seeing how someone could like treat you and treat your body and yeah really just like almost like discard it and be like you know done with it and I think over time I've had to learn that for me it's really important to establish more of a more of like not a relationship but just something more meaningful than just someone that you meet on a night out because I found that that was when I felt the most hurt is when you meet someone out of you know a whim or something on a night out and then if you go home with them and then you don't really have anything established or built after that it kind of has very similar feelings and so I think for me there is definitely it was kind of a fighting me fighting between like wanting to feel wanted but also fighting that feeling of like again feeling discarded like again and again yeah totally totally it's such a horrible feeling isn't it yeah I'm just curious did it feel to you ever I just feel like it's especially right after it happens it's like after I got violated it felt like just like someone took a piece of my soul without my permission right and it's like the one of just the worst things that anyone could feel I believe so it's like rebuilding trust and people after that that's so hard you know what's like one thing like that you would recommend to someone who might be trying to rebuild their trust in being around people again yeah I think it's really hard and like I went through really weird situations um like for example I was in a chemistry class after it happened and my teaching assistant was a guy and there was nothing about him that was rude or provocative or like he wasn't like being inappropriate in any way but I was just I had so much built up anger every time I went to that class because it was a guy and I remember one day just feeling like we were like in a chemistry lab and I had to leave the room for a second because I was filled with so much anger and I think that you know there was a part of me that wanted to blame every guy I knew for what happened and so I think building trust just takes so much time and it really starts with like building out who's in that first circle and like those really close-knit friends and family and like the really strong support system because you need people like that to remind you that it's not your fault and that was something that I had to be reminded of all the time and when I was going through my case I like I don't know why I would feel like guilt because I think that that feeling of like the blame feeling comes back but my friend one of my friends always reminded me you know think of it as like if it happened to me if he did what you did to me how would you react and I said I would be furious I would be angry I would I would want justice because that's not right and she said you know so why can't you feel that same way for yourself and I think that maybe it's like you know in selfless people where you kind of like put others above yourself and maybe it has something to do with that but I think for quite a while it it was really hard to like practice self-love but I think that that's one of like the first and like foremost things that you have to like acknowledge is that like you yourself deserve so much love right now because you just went through something so traumatic and and like therapy as well was something that was so key in like my recovery and just and I remember specifically my and I because I just went through the university to get a therapist and they asked me do you want a male or a female therapist and prior to that I had only ever I'd only ever had a female therapist but I told myself I know that right now men make me really uncomfortable and that's something that I really want to work on and so I actually ended up choosing a male therapist because I wanted to I wanted to create a good and positive relationship with a stranger and like you know guy that I didn't know for once because like it wasn't like I hated my dad or my brother but it was just that I hated every guy that I passed on the street and like every guy that you come into contact with at the grocery store and like you know all these different places and from the first meeting he said you know I can tell that you're really uncomfortable because you you haven't been able to keep eye contact with me like at all this first session but over time he really helped me in just kind of establishing different like cognitive behavior it was more like cognitive behavior therapy where we kind of you know thought through exercises and different situations that might make me anxious and situations that trigger certain emotions or feelings in me and he helped me you know build and kind of talk through like how you know I wanted to react and versus how I'm currently reacting and yeah I think that that was seeing a therapist was like a very important part in like being able to get to where I am today but I think I think first and foremost like self-love is such an important thing and as cheesy as it sounds I think it's one of the hardest things to practice after going through something traumatic yeah definitely there's a lot of really good points in there seeing a therapist giving yourself love practicing self-love what has your self-love journey looked like it's been very rocky and it's been I think it's you know it maybe looks like if you were to put it on like a trajectory map it would look like a scribble because like some days are good some days are bad and then like some parts of your life depending on where you are who you're dating what you're going through it can be it can look so different to like where you are today versus like five years ago or something and I think you know over time it's been I've learned to appreciate how much I've come like how much I've come through or like gone through I think over the years and I think reminding yourself of all the hardships that you've overcome no matter if they're big or small I think it's just really important because it helps you develop gratitude towards yourself because I think a lot of like self-help books have you you know write down three three things you're grateful for or like three good things that happen today and sometimes people resort to well I'm grateful for you know my boyfriend or I'm grateful for my parents and like all that stuff can be important but I think that people don't tend to put down like you know I'm grateful for myself and I'm grateful for you know being able to wake up today and being in a good mood and being able to maybe like take a bath the night before and just have like an evening to myself and just like different things and I think being able to kind of appreciate and like give yourself back the respect that you lost I think there's definitely an element in that yeah thank you so much for sharing yeah self-love the self-love journey for anyone isn't easy but especially after going through sexual trauma it's just a whole nother ballgame there's like really high highs and really low lows yeah yeah yeah and it's so important like you said to take time to really appreciate yourself and yeah it definitely makes a big difference when you start to really put yourself on a in a place where rather than just focusing on the other people around you but actually focusing on your well-being too yeah I agree it seems like as women our job is kind of well we feel like it's our job to take care of other people but sometimes we also definitely not even sometimes we always need to take care of ourselves yeah you mentioned like gratitude and things like that how do you think forgiveness ties into sexual trauma as well yeah I think that was a really big element that took some time to come to terms with and I'd look at it I look at it from two perspectives so there's the perspective of being able to forgive the other person and you know it doesn't have to be an outward verbal physical forgiveness of anything but it's something that you come to terms with in your own mind heart and well-being as well as like forgiveness towards yourself and just going back and circling back to that self-blame thing and so I guess in the first instance it's you know looking at something that's really traumatic and you know how can this person do this to me and in my situation it was someone that I knew someone that I worked with someone that I went to parties with someone that I like considered a good friend and so from that perspective it's like you know you're now a completely different person I can't believe you would do such a terrible thing to me and you know and I think it's it's being able to look at that situation and because I don't think that you can really move on until you and maybe it's different for some people but for me I just had to come to terms with it myself that especially because I knew that person and maybe it's different if you didn't know the person that sexually abused or assaulted you I think that I needed to there was some part of me that needed to forgive him in my mind and in my heart and and I think I just needed to kind of look at it and say you know while I'm so angry and I'm so furious at him and I want nothing to do with him ever again and I don't want anything you know I had a whole like sexual assault protection order like he couldn't be within 500 feet of me and it was like a court order but there was still a part of me in my mind and like heart that had to forgive him and it may just maybe also be like a spiritual thing for me you know just coming from like a faith where like you know Jesus forgave me and like God forgave us and that sort of a thing so I don't know if it's like a religious or spiritual thing but like for me that was kind of important and like a vital part in like my recovery but I think more importantly it's just forgiving yourself and not blaming yourself not blaming yourself for the clothes you wear you know what you were drinking that night you know where you were who you were with there was nothing that could have prevented that from happening other than that person you know just making better decisions and so it has nothing to do with like you you should be able to live freely and you should be able to make your own decisions and you know you shouldn't have to like walk on eggshells and you shouldn't have to look at yourself every time before you go out and say you know is this too is this dress too short because like it might get me like you know sexually assaulted like that's just like an insane question to even ask and that's not something that women should be asking themselves and that's what I hate so much about some of the stuff that's in the media is like you know it's because of the clothes that you wear and it's because you drink too much and no it's not like women should be able to go out and feel safe you know no matter what the situation if if you're walking home at night if you're at a party with friends if you're at a party with people you don't know you should feel safe and there's no question about it and so I think it's you there's a part of it that's just like you need to be able to look at that situation and like forgive yourself and say there wasn't anything that I did intentionally to put myself in that situation and ask for that I never gave consent I never asked for it and just being able to kind of like I think I had to tell myself that over and over and that really helped and like that self-love journey is the being able to like forgive yourself and give yourself back some of that love and some of those pieces like you were saying that that person took away yeah yeah there's a lot of aspects to it isn't there yeah yeah it's like something that is a long process for sure yeah but definitely like you mentioned having two parts about forgiving the person and also forgiving yourself it's so it's such like it's so easy to go into like a loop or a pattern where you're just like hating on the person hating on the situation hating on yourself for putting yourself in that situation you know but ultimately we learn from our life experiences and they shape us into who we are yeah for better or worse but yeah I definitely agree that forgiving yourself is so important and that we shouldn't we shouldn't worry you should feel safe yeah for someone who might have been sexually abused recently or in the past what's something that you would want them to know um I would want them to know that right now is probably the toughest part of the recovery journey I think that that first year and like I mentioned like my title 9 case was a year long I was probably one of the toughest years of my life and arguably almost as hard as healing myself from anorexia from an eating disorder and just feel it feeling like impossible every step of the way um I went through a lot of really really tough nights where I would turn to alcohol quite a bit and use it to suppress a lot of the emotions and it was a coping mechanism that I had for sure and it was it was tough because you know you you're trying to look for answers and you're you're waiting for things to get better and I think in that first year it's like you get these little glimmers of hope and these glimmers of like okay days and like some good days but I think that that that trauma just acts like such a rain cloud um over you especially that first year and it's really really hard but I think I think that that's like the time that you need to be practicing the most grace and you know hopefully developing like better habits than I had and you know doing things like journaling and um you know painting or going for walks or you know maybe getting a pet or something and like just like trying to like to fill that hole that you feel and like I think that's just how I felt for so long it's just like you know what have I done to like get to this point and like to have what happened to me happen and so I think it's really just being able to like take that self-love and like multiply it times 10 because I don't think that there is any other point in your life where you would need it more than like that first year and like especially in the first few months and you know don't don't suppress it don't blame yourself um and like definitely 100 I think therapy is you know such an amazing um opportunity just to talk through those things you know and it kind of like over time you become a lot more comfortable with sharing a little bit more and a little bit more because I know how hard it is to you know share in that first instance and I think over time that also just helps you as a survivor build your resilience and build your strength so that you can confidently tell your story like it's been five years since my sexual assault and I can I'm able to like sit on my podcast and share openly and freely about what happened but I could not do that in 2016 or 2017 because those are when all I could do was cry and break down and have nightmares that he was like outside my window and like going to attack me again yeah and there's just so many psychological aspects to it that I think therapy is such a caveat in and um and you know I think also just like speaking with like it being mental health awareness week and just like if things like um you know antidepressants or anti-anxiety medication help like maybe that's an option as well like I can't tell you how anxious I felt in that year and like maybe anti-anxiety meds would have been better for me than the copious amounts of alcohol that I was drinking and you know just like killing my liver with and you know I would just like in those anxious bouts in those anxious moments I would you know go to the liquor store go buy more alcohol go out with friends and I would cover it up as like you know I'm gonna go out with friends but really it was like I'm trying to suppress these really traumatic feelings and absolutely instances that you know actually should probably be talked to with a professional so yeah yeah absolutely drugs and alcohol are like such an easy go-to huh yeah yeah and it's like a pattern it's like we start to feel like come up and it's like oh I'm just gonna do this again you know I'm just gonna run away from it yeah yeah and in my experience I actually ran away so hard that I almost died multiple times so yeah I would recommend that someone get their help in a healthier way than we had than we coped with it for sure definitely one thing that I wanted to ask about you mentioned that this was someone who was relatively close to you and you knew one of the things that I had a challenging time with was pressing charges and speaking up about it because this was someone that I knew and I'm like a loving caring person and I wouldn't want to like damage somebody's name or like get them in trouble or even ruin their relationships with some other people that I know but then at the end of the day it's like this person did that to me so how how tell me about that how was that for you and overcoming that yeah yeah this was probably one of the hardest things about my case was that it was very open and especially being like we knew each other because we were both in the greek community so like he was in a fraternity I was in a sorority he was the president of his fraternity he was the captain of the boxing team and da da da da and I can't tell you how many negative comments and glares that I got and just like all of those people in that fraternity stopped talking to me there were people that when I went out for drinks with friends they would say oh well she's just doing this because she wants attention and she like it would just be like excuse after excuse but all to stand up for him and like make him you know shine the light on him and I think you know I definitely felt the same way that you did in the beginning and it was scary to even like I think there was something that was like the first step of the whole case was signing a no contact form where it was an agreement between him and I that said we're not allowed to contact each other no matter what but it was also like the first notification that he would get that I am coming at him and like pressing charges for this case but like charges being like you know I want justice from this university system for what happened to me and so it wasn't like a court system I only took it to court after because I was afraid of what he might do to be so I did go to a court system to get a SAPO which is a sexual assault protection order so basically was like if he came within 500 feet of me I could call the cops and he could be arrested right there on the spot but there is definitely an element in the beginning like I said about you know I didn't want to tarnish his name I didn't want like he ended up getting expelled he was like right at his last senior year he was about to graduate with a business degree and all this stuff he probably had his whole life set up for him but what I found out in that case was that he not only did that to me but to another girl and he actually brought that up and was trying to say oh well I know what consent is because this has been an accusation that's been made against me before and when my case investigator looked further into it it was that this girl had made tried to make a case against him and didn't have enough evidence and so it's it really comes down to having to be selfish for about yourself for once and I think that like you said a lot of women struggle with this and we want to take care of other people and we want to put other people first but this is this is one of those situations where you have to be selfish and you have to say what happened is so wrong and I'm not going to stand for it I'm not going to let it you know just like fly by like it's not cool and you know regardless of what happens to him he needs to learn that what he did to me that night was not okay and you know it's also it's also about just thinking like futuristically and like and like how many more women would he have done that to had I not stepped in and made a case and like and then like finding out that he had done this to a girl before and just these people who are you know rapists who are abusers it's not just with one person you know like it's not just like they do it to one person and then they like get it out of their system those are people that have a serious issue and they need to be stopped and there needs to be justice in some sort of way and those people who were victims who were abused who you know they just happened to pick that night it's not it's not fair and so I think it's really being able to you know regardless of what people say regardless of what friend circles get ruined whatever relationships get severed what I like live by now in like so many different like aspects of life is just like if people are going to look at me negatively for my you know life decisions if people aren't going to support me those aren't people that I want in my circle those aren't people that I want in my life because it's a privilege to have access to me and I think that that's something that's really important it's just like you know as much as I feel like I've been totally like torn down and like I feel like someone's taken a part of me it's still vital that I have a support system and I know that I will but I'm not going to let these negative people be a part of it I'm not going to let people who think that I'm just here for attention be a part of it because those are those are people that are just so emotionally stunted and immature that you can't grasp like what is actually such a massive issue that occurs all over the world every day like yeah I think it's it's really hard at first but it's something that you really learn over time yeah yeah in these cases it's definitely important to be a little bit it's hard to believe that it would even be selfish but putting your own self first yeah it's so important and I'm really glad that you got justice and not only that but finding out about that other girl and it's only like imagine what would have happened if you were a girl and it's only like imagine what would have happened if he got was in a position with a lot more power yeah yeah yeah people people who intentionally violate other people and it I think that those people are just the worst kind of people and we have to live on with the aftermath of what they did to us and they get off on that it's just terrible yeah but I'm really happy for you that you've been able to come to a place where you're so strong and courageous enough to speak out about it and you know hopefully this episode reaches someone who really needs to hear it yeah I definitely hope so what so what is was there a key moment for you in the process in the journey where you might have just like had like sort of maybe an epiphany where everything changed yeah I think definitely that friend that I spoke about earlier and this happened like one time that she kind of like gave me this perspective but when she kind of shifted it to kind of put her in my place instead of me in that trauma and you know asked me like what do you think of it now because like prior to that I was you know very similar like in those feelings of just like you know I don't like I'm not that type of person that like outwardly goes to try and like ruin people's lives or start drama or you know be cruel and bully people like that's just like that's not me at all like I'm someone who like definitely loves to put people first and I love to do things for people and like nurture people like you know I think it's just like a girl thing a woman thing and I think as soon as she kind of said look at it from this perspective what if he did what he did to you to me and she's someone who is still a very close friend of mine and it's just like I think that I took that anger that I felt in that moment and just like tried to carry it and remind myself of it because that's really how you should be viewing yourself because I think in that moment I also realized that I don't give myself half the amount of love that I give others and I think you know we we spend so much time giving love to others you know spending time with others planning for others and like that sort of a thing you kind of forget to do a lot of that for yourself and so I think it was just really interesting to see how angry and like you know furious that I got think just thinking of that and then thinking why can't I even like think of you know do that for myself or like think of myself as that and just like you know get as angry and as riled up but like I think that's what really helped me in some of those last parts of my case and there are points where I had to face his lawyer where he would his lawyer would ask me just terrible questions inappropriate questions but you know just I think that like over time because it was such a long drawn out case over time you know you really I think it was also just like the repetition of telling my story over and over again to these people it just becomes more and more clear that what happened was not okay and what happened wasn't your fault and that you that I was in that moment fighting for myself and any woman that would have ever been hurt from him in the future and so I think it has just so much to do with like you know being able to give yourself half the amount of love that you give others and just and yeah just being able to like see it from like that lens maybe and just like see how you feel then because like if you if you feel like you know oh I don't want to do anything I don't want to do anything blah blah blah think about what he would what would how you would feel if your best friend was in your shoes that that day that evening that morning whatever that was and take how you feel write it down and like remind yourself and like remind yourself that like that is like what the kind of like reaction you deserve not people who think that you're dying not people that think that you're doing this for attention but people that want to get angry for you that want to stand up for you and fight for you yeah yeah that's really good advice some people it could help them a lot to picture in somebody else's shoes because maybe they just don't value themselves enough right now or they just don't you know so yeah that's really good advice in terms of sexual abuse overcoming challenges forgiveness and everything like that are there any final messages that you want to give to listeners yeah I guess just if you're in like the early stages of you know just having had experienced a trauma um just take it day by day and you know especially when like you have days where like things feel impossible it's okay to lie in bed all day it's okay to cry a lot it's okay to take you know a lot of baths a lot of bubble baths like um and just cry because I think that you know if you're if you're actually confronting your emotions uh I think that that's a vital part instead of suppressing them with things like drugs and alcohol like you're talking about I think that a big part of it is really being able to come face to face with those emotions and face what happened because as much as like you did face what happened that night and you weren't expecting it there's a lot of trauma and aftermath that you still need to face and you still need to deal with um and I think that the the faster you do and I'm not saying you know you need to do it now but just like the more that you do the work um on yourself and you know you do the right things and you know not the drugs and alcohol but like the journaling and like the art or the you know whatever makes you happy um and the more that you spend the time you know facing those feelings um and that can even just look like crying like but at least you're not suppressing them and you're not like shoving them down and I think the best analogy I've ever been given is like when you try and push any sort of a ball down in like a big body of water and like the further that you push it down the quicker that it comes up to smack you back in the face and so you're kind of just prolonging that ball coming straight back into your face and so I think it's being able to be in like the best mindset possible despite like the circumstances but like creating the healthy environment to welcome those feelings um acknowledge them feel them write about them but then like you know day by day things do get better um and I think this was something that I did like a podcast episode about and just like year by year I noticed how it did get a little bit better and I have friends who have also unfortunately been sexually assaulted but some friends who are just in that first year mark and I always tell them that's when it's the hardest but I can tell you that by year two this is how I felt and by year three this is how I felt and they're not like dramatic differences but I can say that between year one and year five big difference but a lot of it has to do with the fact that like I had to come to terms with like yeah I need to face this and I need to do the work and I need to make sure that I'm going to be okay for the future because I'm not going to let what happened and what he did to me linger over me forever and I'm gonna I'm gonna persevere and I'm gonna move on I'm gonna become the strong woman that I know I am you know and there's nothing about there's nothing about that event like yes it was terrible and yes like it's a date that I'll never forget but if anything it's made me stronger and it's made me a bigger voice and a bigger advocate for women that have gone through this women and men and you know I just hope that one day we can get to a place where everyone knows what consent is and everyone practices consent and everyone you know wants people to be safe because a safe world is it seems impossible and unimaginable but you know that's just that's the only hope that we can have I guess wow thank you so much for sharing that Liz it really touches my heart too and I'm sure it'll touch the heart of a lot of listeners yeah I hope so yeah it's true that it's really difficult in the beginning but it does get better it gets better it's not like it ever truly goes away maybe maybe it does I don't know I'm not you know I'm not it's still it's not like I'm like I have had a whole lifetime of healing from it you know maybe it does get a lot lot lot better but you know yeah give it's so important to give ourselves grace for sure where can listeners find you and get in contact yeah so I have the podcast has an instagram it's just at resiliency and running and then a website as well is just www.

Resiliencyandrunning.

Com and there's a lot of links and things there and definitely ways to get in contact with me I am a completely open book I respond to messages that I get you know via email or instagram because I think it's important and that's why I share such vulnerable things on my podcast because I think you know if you can if you can be the voice for someone who doesn't feel like they can use their voice I think that that's really important and I think if I can be that voice for anyone then I'm happy that I can because it's taken a long time to get to where I am today and so you know if people want to talk if people want to talk about you know what happened or ask me any more questions I am I am an open book and I think that this topic is so important and I'm so glad that we got to talk about it today yeah definitely well I'm really glad that I'm really glad as well that we were able to talk about it like like we said in the very beginning it's so important and we need to take away the stigma we need to talk about it so many more people are dealing with these challenges than you know we might ever know because a lot of people just feel so shameful to come out about it yeah yeah well thank you so much for being here today with me Liz of course yeah thank you so much for tuning in today I really truly appreciate your support and I'm so so happy that you're here with me along this journey I really hope that you enjoyed this episode you can find Liz on Instagram at resiliency and running visiting resiliencyandrunning.

Com and I really recommend that you tune in to her show Resiliency and Running on your favorite streaming platform in next week's episode I will discuss the importance of gratitude also just want to let you know that I've been really really so busy filming tons of interviews for you I probably have about two to three months worth of content now of just interviews alone it's insane and the best way how things really come along with consistent effort it's almost as if people just flock to me now I love it and I love you if you're not yet I would feel so happy if you subscribe to this podcast and follow me on Instagram at dear lovely universe it lets me know that you enjoy the content and inspires me to keep making more I hope that you have a wonderful rest of your day and I'll talk to you next week you