The Challenges & Benefits Of Pride: Levels Of Consciousness

So today we're continuing our series all about David Hawkins' map of consciousness.

And for anyone who's new to that,

David Hawkins wrote a book called Power versus Force.

And it's all about the different states of being.

And if we're in certain states of being,

We require force to live.

We require force to get what we want out of life.

But in higher states of being,

We have an inner power.

And it's from that inner power that we actually move through.

And it's a very different thing to kind of force our way through life.

Whether it's forcing other people,

Forcing situations,

Forcing ourselves.

It's an effortful way to live and really difficult.

Like it actually,

When we're in that force place,

Like you can imagine the lack of balance when we're in a force place.

Because we have to force upon something.

So that means something else in our world,

People,

Places,

Situations,

Circumstances.

They have to submit to us.

Right?

We are forcing ourselves.

We are forcing our fears.

We are forcing our desires.

We are forcing ourselves and trying to change something outside of ourselves.

Well,

This has nothing to do with living in balance with the world or living in balance with other people or living in balance with God.

Living in balance with my circumstances and learning from it.

Right?

These are very,

Very different ways of seeing the world.

So this was the premise of his book,

Power versus Force.

What would it feel like to live from a place of inner power?

Which of course isn't power over anything.

It's not power over our circumstances.

It's not power over other people.

And it's not powerless at all because as soon as I say that,

Right,

You think,

Oh,

So I don't have any control over anything.

And that it brings to mind for me Gandhi.

Right?

One of Gandhi's great teachings was the teachings of Satya.

And Satya is truth.

It's like soul's truth.

It's not here's what I think about that.

It's a divine truth between our seventh chakra and our first chakra.

This is what is alignment with in an alignment with my soul as I incarnate here on earth.

This is my truth.

This is how I see things.

What Gandhi taught was Satya Graha.

And Satya Graha means to stand in.

So Satya Graha is to stand in one's truth.

This is inner power.

You don't change anyone else.

So his movement sort of got understood as a non-violence movement.

Right?

It was it's all about what you don't fight and you just stand.

But it's so much more than that.

You don't fight because you're not in a power over consciousness.

You're in an inner power consciousness.

And another part of David Hawkins teachings is that when we hold this inner power,

We resonate at a higher frequency and that higher frequency affects everything around us.

We don't have to power over in 3D.

We don't have to power over in the physical world.

We just hold this truth inside it.

And something else happens.

There's an energetic ripple effect.

And the beautiful thing about it is as we move through the levels of consciousness,

There's no ego in it either.

It's not I will stand in my frequency because I am more evolved than you are.

Some kind of nonsense like that.

It's not like that.

It's almost like as we move into the higher frequencies,

We actually become more humble.

Right.

Because we're more aware of the whole.

We're more aware of this incredible place we're a part of.

So it's almost like we become lighter,

Like literally we become lighter.

And it's that that is the higher frequency.

Right.

It's a lighter frequency.

It's easier.

And we affect the whole that way.

And this was a huge part of his teachings.

So a while ago,

We started talking about these different levels.

And so we started doing kind of focused talks on all the different levels of consciousness.

So if you're new to this talk,

I'm going to share with you a picture and you can Google this.

And it's called the Map of Consciousness by David Hawkins.

And you can see at the bottom,

You start with shame,

Guilt,

Apathy,

Grief,

Fear,

Desire,

Anger,

Pride.

What we're talking about today is pride.

Everything below pride is in that position of force.

That in order for our soul to survive,

We either are sort of victims of external forces,

Or we are using force to almost try to survive,

Try to climb out of the hole,

Climb out of,

You know,

Like we're just sort of desperately swimming for sure.

It's not a bad thing at all.

Like this isn't like a big judgment thing.

This is a,

In these states of being,

We require some force to climb out.

Above pride,

We hit courage.

And courage is the big changer.

This is the watershed.

This is where everything changes into inner power.

And you can imagine that,

Right,

That as soon as we come into a place of courage,

We now come into a place of choice,

And we realize that I can make changes.

I can do something different now.

And it isn't about anyone else.

It isn't about our circumstances.

It isn't about my partner.

It isn't about my job.

It's about me figuring out what's the next step,

And then having the courage to step into that.

And then above courage comes neutrality,

Willingness,

Acceptance,

Reason,

Love,

Joy,

Peace,

And then enlightenment.

And it's a really,

Really interesting journey.

So why do we want to talk about this?

So the key is that pride can have a number of different roles in our life.

At this point,

Depending on where we are,

Pride may save us.

It might be the thing that brings us out of the situation we're in right now.

The first thing I want to talk about is the importance of pride.

Let's say,

For example,

You're in a state of shame.

And again,

There's no judgment here.

We don't know why these souls come in the way we come in.

You know,

I don't,

I've never met anyone who I thought was a blank slate at birth.

Like we all seem to come in fully loaded for an adventure,

Whether it's through past karma or whether it's ancestral DNA,

Whether it's just simply this soul's journey.

We don't know why we end up in situations we end up.

So sometimes we have a life that has sort of geared us to experience a lot of shame.

Maybe we've been told that we weren't good enough.

Maybe we've been abused.

Maybe we've lived in a family that felt a lot of shame and struggled with that.

And that's just the pool we swam in.

And shame,

For example,

On that on that list is very low.

And the reason is it's not a low like,

Oh,

You're at such a low level.

It's almost like how much energy we have to survive,

How much energy we have to actually make change.

So when we're in a place of shame,

You really need to have a lot of compassion for ourselves.

Right.

And to say,

Wow,

This is horrible.

And we really,

Really,

Really feel like everyone else gets to decide who we are.

So we're not talking about shame today.

But if you imagine the difference between feeling shame like right now,

Just wherever you are in your consciousness and your world.

Imagine what it would feel like to feel shame all day long about everything.

Then imagine pride.

That I have pride in my accomplishments.

I have pride in who I am.

I have pride.

I can feel how strong that is.

Feel how positive that is.

Or imagine you've had some really difficult times in your life and you've dropped into apathy.

And this is as a survival technique.

It's like,

You know,

I can't even deal with it.

I'm just shutting out.

I'm just shutting down.

I'm not paying attention.

Right.

So you kind of live your life.

It's like,

Yeah,

Whatever.

Yeah,

I don't care.

Just forget it.

I don't even care.

Yeah,

Whatever.

I don't care.

Right.

Total survival mechanism.

So you're in total apathy.

Now imagine feeling or maybe remember a time when you felt like you were totally apathetic to the world and the people around you.

And then imagine pride.

And it like you literally feel your your your spine straighten.

This is a very powerful place.

And what's interesting about pride is it is in our in most of our societies.

This is the goal.

This is the top.

Right.

Forget about courage and neutrality.

That just sounds like woo woo nonsense.

Like who wants neutrality and all that?

Forget that.

I want to know that I accomplished something.

You need to be proud of yourself.

You need to be proud of your successes.

You need to be proud of your education.

You need to be proud of the car you drive and the house you own and the partner you landed.

Sorry,

I couldn't resist.

But you know what I mean?

But that's what it's like.

It's like so often even when we're seeking someone as a partner,

It's like it has to be someone we are proud of.

You know,

Regardless of how we feel around them,

Regardless of how much we feel loved and we just actually love hanging out with them and talking to them.

Our societies have huge issues if they don't look quite right or if they don't have the right job or if they don't do this or if they don't like pride is a huge part of our societal training.

And it and this is and you can start to feel where it actually blocks our growth.

It blocks our possibilities.

It blocks our opportunities for having real experiences in life.

You know,

Imagine just that.

Imagine in relationships and you meet someone and you really like them.

They're epic.

And but also to understand how much we've internalized the pride piece,

Not just about other people.

But what if society says,

Oh,

No,

But they're too tall or they're too short or they're too fat or they're too skinny or they're too,

I don't know,

Whatever,

Whatever.

They're not Kardashian enough or something.

And we've internalized that pride piece.

And therefore,

Through our eyes,

We only see people who fit the Kardashian Brad Pitt thing.

And we don't even see the love of our life walking by us because we've internalized this pride piece.

It's a fascinating thing.

So,

Pride is a very,

Very important one because it's in there.

It's like.

I have this one friend.

OK,

So here's my funny thing about telling you this story,

Because I feel like I'm telling you out of pride.

So it's I don't mean it that way,

But I as I'm starting to tell it,

That's what I feel like it's going to sound like.

Anyway,

So I have this friend that's been we've been friends for like twenty five,

Thirty years.

And she was over the other day and we were giggling about something and,

You know,

Just laughing about something.

And she looks at me,

She goes,

You know,

I actually need to hang out with you sometimes.

She said she's a farmer and all of her friends are big chicken farmers.

And if you know anything about farming,

Chicken farming,

These are the wealthy farmers.

Right.

They they just expand and expand and expand and expand.

And it's a very wealthy farming industry.

And so all of her friends,

I mean,

So she and I started hanging out.

Yeah.

Thirty years ago when we were both farmers.

So,

Of course,

Her and her friends have still been farmers for 30 years.

So they've just gotten bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger.

And she was sitting with me and finally she just looked at me and she shook her head and she goes,

You know,

Sometimes I kind of need to hang out with you.

Because all my friends ever talk about is the new farm they bought and the new tractor they bought and the new car they got and the new vacation they're going on.

She goes,

And here you are.

And you don't own anything.

She says it's it kind of it's it plays with that inner piece.

I'm struggling to say this because it sounds very prideful.

And but she says it gets so weird to talk to you because she says you don't own anything.

Like how can how can you be an interesting person and not own anything?

It goes against that.

But again,

It's not.

Wow,

I'm really I'm really struggling to to tell that story.

But so it's interesting how we've internalized this pride question.

You know,

Imagine if you really hated your job.

And you said,

Well,

You know,

Someone said,

Well,

Why don't you quit?

And it's like,

Yeah,

But I make so much money.

It's like,

But why wouldn't you just do something you like that made you less money?

Well,

Then I couldn't afford the house I live in.

Like,

Well,

Why wouldn't you live in a smaller house?

And hence the crickets,

Because society says that a big house is something to be proud of.

And now all of a sudden there's a dead silence and you can not change jobs.

You can not rent instead of own.

You can not change because of this internalized pride.

And it changes everything.

So you can.

It's funny even like just.

Talking about it,

It's it almost feels like going against society,

Going against everything we've been taught.

Think of how much we can have pride in.

We can have we can be proud of our fitness levels.

We can be proud of our how much money we make.

We can be proud of our successes.

We can be proud of our country.

We can be proud of what religion we belong to.

Like these things,

You can feel the stronghold in them.

Right.

And it's like,

Well,

No,

No,

That can't change.

I am a proud Canadian.

I am proud to believe what I believe.

I am proud to achieve what I've achieved.

Like it's just a stopper.

Right.

It's like and I think that's what I was stumbling over when I was telling you the story,

Because what if I'm proud to not own anything?

What if I'm proud of you know what I mean?

Like if I've internalized that as pride,

I'm in big trouble.

And so it's really interesting and you can feel the strength in your back of this pride.

So what is the danger in it?

OK,

So we can we can fully understand the power of pride to take us out of these previous energy places.

Right.

How pride is so much stronger than grief.

It's so much stronger than guilt.

It's so much stronger than apathy or shame.

So if we are actually in those realms,

Pride's really good.

Pride,

Like body pride,

Might be something really,

Really important because we've had a lot of body shame.

And body pride doesn't necessarily mean,

Look how fit I am.

It might just simply mean,

You know what?

Love me the way I am.

This is awesome.

I love my flabby belly and I love my stretch marks and I love my whatever.

And I'm really proud of everything I've ever been through.

It's very positive.

It's a very positive thing compared to shame.

It's a very good place to go.

So in no way do I believe that we should skip the pride step of our life.

I think it's a very,

Very important part.

I remember one of the greatest phrases that I ever read that really stuck in my mind.

And it said that you have to strengthen the ego before you can transcend it.

If we skip the pride step,

If we skip any of these steps along that map of consciousness,

That's bypassing.

Like we have to go through the steps and then we come to that place where we are feeling,

I really feel good about myself.

I feel good about my successes,

Whatever they are.

I feel good about my emotional health.

I feel good about my body.

I feel good about my accomplishments.

Awesome.

The challenge in this place is that what if any of those things change?

What if you lose your money?

What if you lose your house?

What if you lose your job?

What if you get into an accident and you lose your fitness?

What if your relationship breaks up?

And this is where it becomes dangerous,

Right?

Because we know this inside.

We know that this pride,

This happy feeling I have is dependent on having this partner.

It's dependent on having this job.

It's dependent on this house.

It's dependent on my country acting a certain way.

My pride is dependent on things I can't control and shouldn't control.

Right?

They're dependent on other things.

And this is where pride becomes weird.

This is where pride becomes defensive and almost arrogant.

Like I'm going to just keep some distance from you because I can't risk any of this changing.

So,

We're just going to hold some distance here.

Pride can become very.

.

.

It's almost like what happens when you're vulnerable?

Where do you revert to?

Maybe anger.

Maybe actually hidden shame,

Hidden guilt.

And so,

All of a sudden you create distance because I have to maintain this no matter what.

And it's kind of a desperate place.

It's almost like that,

Please don't question me.

Please don't undermine how I feel right now.

Please don't challenge me.

I feel good.

I like the way I feel.

Please don't question this.

And that's okay.

It's good to be there.

But we have to also understand why it's below courage.

Why is it still in the negative energy realms?

And it's because we're still dependent on other or dependent on how other people see us.

And also to again really understand how we've internalized that in society.

Because when we can feel pride,

It means that other people accept us.

Maybe we feel socially acceptable for the first time.

Maybe we feel popular.

Maybe we feel like we can hold our head up high and this is all good.

This is what I mean.

Because so much of our society lives in a state of fear,

Guilt,

Shame,

Anger,

All those things.

Compared to that,

Pride is a really positive place.

It's a place where we first start to taste true self-esteem.

You know,

So it's in no way do I want to completely come away from this talk saying pride is bad.

Don't go there.

Because it's it's where we really start feeling good about ourselves.

It's really,

Really an excellent thing.

So now let's imagine we're kind of swimming around in pride for a while.

We feel good about ourselves.

We're happy where other people appreciate us.

Other people think we're doing the right thing.

We feel strength.

We feel inner strength.

Like this is awesome.

So then what's the next step?

Why would we ever leave?

Why would we ever leave pride?

Why would we ever go on to courage?

What if what is courage?

Why is courage above pride?

What's the difference?

So what's interesting is,

So imagine you've maybe you've played around in pride for five years,

10 years,

20 years.

Maybe you've you've you've enjoyed it and it's been really,

Really healthy.

And we've gotten to clear all kinds of great karma.

We've gotten to clear ancestral training of shame and anger and all these kind of things.

And then we come to a place where we go.

OK,

What's next then?

And what's next might be taking a step in courage that doesn't necessarily suit society's needs.

Maybe it's a step into a whole different place.

Maybe it's that person saying,

Well,

What if what if I do get a different job?

What if I do downsize and live in a different house?

What if it doesn't matter what other people think?

What if I do choose to be with this person even though my parents wouldn't approve?

Or maybe they don't look like what I thought my ideal partner would be.

And again,

This isn't the soul talking.

This is sort of the ego saying,

No,

No,

No,

No,

No.

That's not what they can.

You know,

It's always like when people say,

Well,

I have a type.

It's like,

What if we give up ideas of types and we actually dive into a relationship?

Because we feel called to because we feel love.

But it kind of goes against what others might think or what we've previously thought.

That takes courage.

That's a different thing.

And it's no longer about pride.

It's no longer about what it looks like.

I don't personally feel like I look a certain way because my partner looks a certain way or because my partner has a certain success.

It's a very,

Very different world or two.

And it can be anything.

You know,

I kind of told the story about not owning anything.

But what if what if we've always had pride around not owning anything?

And no,

No,

No,

I don't I don't believe in money.

I don't believe in financial success.

I don't believe in any of that.

What if courage was stepping into serious financial success?

What if courage was actually stepping into a world of financial abundance we've never imagined?

I mean,

What if that was our soul's calling?

Like this is where something changes because your whole experience becomes inside.

It isn't about what anyone else thinks positively or negatively.

It's all about,

Whoa,

So I have my own journey.

All right,

I'm going to step into it,

Which again feels very different from pride.

And then then beyond courage,

Of course,

We step into neutrality.

How could you possibly be neutral and have pride?

Neutrality and pride feel so incredibly different.

Pride asks us to stand strong.

No.

This is what I wanted to accomplish and I accomplished it.

This is this is what I want.

And then you go way up into neutrality and you're like.

Neutrality.

I mean,

You know,

Which is why I think because pride is so embedded in our society.

Neutrality feels so weird.

You know,

Willingness to do anything.

What?

Just love everybody,

No matter what they did.

What?

You know,

All those upper things just feel so foreign.

So this is the real the real point of this talk is to actually see pride where it lives.

And that if if you're right now struggling in the anger zone or fear zone or or guilt or something like that.

That pride may look very,

Very.

It's a very worthy place to go because.

There's so much self-esteem and there's so much positive energy and there's so much strength there.

It's so positive.

But if you're actually in a different place and pride is sort of nipping at your heels and it's still making choices for you.

Then it might be a very interesting thing to imagine letting go of.

Letting go of the things that.

Are stopping our growth that aren't letting us move beyond pride that aren't letting us step into courage.

So depending on where we are,

We may have to let go of pride or we may have to dive into it because,

You know,

It's a pretty awesome thing to play with.

So I'm going to put my glasses on and because I really feel like you guys have questions that I'd love to talk about.

Because normally I would talk longer.

Is it normal to feel at different places on the map?

Totally.

I often find that we almost can look at the different places on the map dependent based on the topic we're talking about.

You know how many people can feel very strong and very courageous in the workplace.

But then for some reason,

As soon as they end up in an intimate relationship,

We're driven by shame or fear.

Right.

Or or the opposite.

Maybe in relationship,

We're very strong and very courageous and love to dive in.

But as soon as we're out in the world,

We're completely driven by fear or driven by something else or pride.

You know,

Or maybe when we're for some reason,

When we're dealing with our parents,

We click into one level of consciousness.

When we're dealing with our children,

We click into another level of consciousness.

Maybe,

You know,

We go out into the world and we feel anger,

You know,

And it's like,

I don't know why I feel so angry about this.

And then there's other times when love is so easy,

You know,

So we're very multi faceted.

But what happens is they say that the way David Hawkins would teach it is that there's one level that we tend to come back to.

We sort of that's our resting set point.

And then we oscillate around that level.

You know,

So let's say,

Let's say even pride,

Since that's what we're talking about.

What if pride is probably our set point?

Well,

What does that mean?

That means that if for some reason something triggers us,

We'll probably drop down into anger.

Right.

Or we'll maybe drop down into grief or or apathy and then sort of build ourselves back up to pride.

But then we'll have a really great day.

Or maybe we'll have a great meditation and we'll read a book or do something.

And all of a sudden we start having visions of,

You know what,

I could I could try this.

I could do that.

I'd love to try that.

And then we play up there and maybe we even hit neutrality.

And then we keep doing this.

And as we oscillate and learn,

That level comes up and up and up.

And then all of a sudden,

We're oscillating in courage.

Right.

And now we're sort of every so often we dip down into pride.

Maybe we dip down into anger.

Why are we dipping down?

Because we have unfinished business.

It's not like a big judgment of character.

You know,

I mean,

A lot of us have buried fury that we've just never had an opportunity to express.

You know,

A lot of us have buried shame that we've just never had an opportunity to really look at.

And as we grow and as we become safer for ourselves,

We get to look at these things.

So even when I say we oscillate downward,

I don't mean it as a negative thing.

I mean,

This is our soul getting to experience whatever is inside of us.

It's very,

Very important to honor what we would consider negative emotions.

But the higher emotions,

The neutrality and all that,

It's almost like the more courage we feel or the more neutrality we feel or the more willingness we feel,

That's what creates the safe place to really dive deep into any leftover shame,

Any leftover guilt,

Any leftover fears.

You know,

It like increases our breath as a human.

I realize that when I let go of the pride,

Having it in the first place due to the fear of being treated unwell,

There is unrest which happens later.

How do I let go of that fear or second guessing of my actions?

So what's interesting is below pride,

The world is very well defined.

I'm afraid of that person.

I'm angry at that person.

I have pride about this.

It's things we can really hold on to.

As soon as we step into courage,

You know,

They say that courage isn't the lack of fear.

It's the willingness to do something,

Even though we don't necessarily know what the outcome is.

So it's a really different place when we leave pride behind and we step into courage.

It is stepping into the unknown.

You know,

That unrest is natural.

That's the natural place of courage.

But the power comes from inside now that suddenly,

No matter what comes,

I know I can make a choice.

You know,

So we become comfortable in the unrest.

We become comfortable in the unknown,

Which is so different.

Right below that pride and downward,

We try to create a situation that's safe.

But beyond that,

We trust in our own inner power,

Our own choice,

That in every step,

I can make a new choice.

In every step,

I can make a new choice.

And it's very different.

So I think it's actually healthy.

The second guessing,

The questioning,

The wondering,

The looking around.

Like even this morning,

I was thinking about creating my own community in mighty networks,

Like kind of to replace Facebook and all that.

And I was like,

Oh,

What about this?

What about this?

What if I'm crazy?

What about this?

What about this?

What about this?

It's almost like you start into this crazy world where you don't just second guess your own things.

There's like all of a sudden 100 options.

But that's that world of creation.

When we're in a place of creation,

It's almost like you become comfortable in this,

Like this back and forth.

Maybe it's this,

Maybe it's that,

Maybe it's this.

And all of a sudden you come back to center and you go,

Okay,

I'm going to do this.

But what if it's normal?

What if it's perfect?

What if it's awesome?

Do you think that when we shift our main state of being,

We only go up down one level at a time?

Or do you think they get skipped?

All I can say is in my experience,

I think sometimes I experience every single level on that chart.

Like when I'm in a tough time,

Holy mackerel,

It's grief.

It's anger.

It's shame.

It's all the things.

And on a good day,

I swear sometimes I taste enlightenment and peace.

You know what I mean?

Like they may shift away just as quickly.

But I feel like we really are all over the place all the time.

I'm so emotional and sensitive.

I get upset easily.

I wonder if it's not my fault.

I don't have pride.

I end up apologizing.

Right?

This is where pride is so powerful.

But maybe it's not pride you need.

Maybe when we look at that chart,

Maybe the next step is anger.

Maybe anger is where you want to go.

Like I know for me,

Holy mackerel,

The number of times that I just have raged at the world.

You have no idea the rage I have felt at myself,

At others,

At God,

At everybody.

You know and I'll even say like to this day like you know,

One of my kids will come over,

A friend or something and I'll say,

Okay,

I'm kind of feeling some serious rage that can I just give her and they just sort of go,

Yeah,

Sure.

Or they go,

I totally can't handle it today.

And it's like,

Okay,

I won't do it.

I'll go for a run instead.

You know,

But it's important to feel that and then once you have that rage out and maybe it's on paper.

You should have seen my journals.

At one point,

I don't do it as much today.

I say as much today.

But my journals used to just be one swear word after another.

It was just like,

Are you like blah,

Blah,

Blah,

Blah,

Blah.

And at least I could get it out.

It had to be expressed,

Right.

It had to get out of my system.

So,

Very often this is where it's really important not to skip steps.

That if we're feeling,

If we're feeling shame,

If we're feeling guilt,

Sometimes we have to get angry at whatever people or institution made us feel guilty,

Right.

How dare you make me feel guilty?

How dare you ruin my life?

How dare you shame me?

Like this is healthy anger.

And then once you get all that anger out,

Then we start to feel some level of self-esteem,

Which then moves us beautifully into pride.

When we feel guilt,

It's so important to then go,

Okay,

Then what do I have guilt about?

What is it?

Who did it?

Why?

Right,

Because it's all from outside.

Guilt is always outside training.

Why do I always feel responsible for others?

It's such an interesting question because on the one hand,

We're trained to.

On the other hand,

I think that some of our souls come in to feel responsible for others.

Maybe,

And I don't believe it's some linear ladder.

I don't believe that we feel responsible because we've always been great souls.

Sometimes I wonder if we feel responsible for others because we have guilt from past lives.

Maybe we were horrible in a past life.

Maybe,

Or maybe we just want to help.

We don't know.

I mean,

The important thing is we don't know why we feel responsible for others.

So it always becomes an interesting question.

You know,

Why do I feel that way?

Sometimes also,

Personally,

I've really struggled.

I've really struggled with a bit of a Messiah complex or this feeling like you're here to save the world or here to help others and all that kind of thing.

And that was a really hard pill to swallow to come to the place where it's like,

No,

That's not your mission.

It isn't about other people.

That's pure ego.

And it's probably what I did wrong as soon as I sort of became a yoga teacher,

Meditation teacher,

Spiritual teacher,

All that stuff.

If I was running from a place of I'm here to help everybody,

Never was right.

It never came out right.

It always,

I don't know,

Maybe it came out right,

But it didn't work.

But as soon as I do things because I love it and it expands me personally,

That changes everything.

It just changes everything.

There's no more Messiah complex.

There's no none of that.

Like Jim was,

He taught me this so long ago and I couldn't quite embrace it at the time because I think I struggled with my own pain.

I struggled with my own sadness and we're all empaths and so all of a sudden we're around people who are struggling.

And so I want to help you and I want to help you and I want to fix you and I don't want you to be hurting.

And then that makes me feel better because at least I helped you even though I couldn't help me and all that kind of thing.

And Jim,

Jim if you're new to stories,

I wrote a book called What If You Could Skip The Cancer?

Where I talk about when I first met Jim,

My first teacher,

Because I was sick and that was my healing journey,

My great crisis that kind of broke me open.

And so Jim,

He would just say to people,

People would call him up and they say,

Jim,

I've got to come see you.

My mom's dying of cancer or something.

And he'd say,

Yeah,

It doesn't work.

I'm going up hunting in the,

Like he was literally everything you never imagined a healer to be.

He was that guru who taught you by smashing all your ideas about what a guru is supposed to be,

You know,

Just,

Oh,

He was just such a mind break.

You know,

He would say,

No,

No,

I'm going up to the Yukon for two months and all.

And this person would say,

But my mom's going to die.

And he'd say,

That's okay,

She'll be back.

He would just say these things that were just so wrong according to society.

And he'd say,

I'm not God.

If she's meant to live or she she's meant to see me or whatever,

She'll be here when I come back.

Don't worry about it.

He said everything that you're not supposed to say,

Like as a person who wanted to be a healer,

He had no attachment.

And that's an amazing thing to empower the people that you work with or what,

However,

Because I mean,

I do private counseling with people.

I do one on ones with people,

But it's it's such a conversation.

It's more like I've got something interesting to offer,

Whether it's an energy grid or something.

And we can look at this together.

But in no way do I imagine I have any answers.

It's always about the person.

It's always about them going away and doing stuff in the same way that if I go to someone for help,

I just want a taste of whatever it is they're talking about.

And then I will go away and let it percolate through my being.

And then I'll make choices.

It's always about the individual making choices.

So how can we ever be responsible for anyone else?

No one's responsible for my choices.

I'm not responsible for anyone else's choices.

You know,

It's a it's a shift in philosophy we need when we feel like really responsible for others.

I struggle with feeling like I'm selfish when I try to live in the flow of life.

When I do something that makes me happy,

I feel guilt because others don't understand.

I want to change for the resistance I'm feeling keeps me stuck.

Guilt is another huge one.

Like pride is something we're taught that we're supposed to achieve in society.

And guilt is one of the number one ways we're controlled.

You can feel how they're all connected.

Like someone might say,

How could you not go to university?

What will people think of us?

Right?

This is like deep in like family pride.

And how do we use it?

We use guilt and shame to make people jump for pride.

It's a kind of twisted.

And it's always interesting too.

And we're made to feel selfish because we've made a choice that's different from other people.

But again,

It's a funny place when we just realize,

Wow,

I don't know why you feel that way.

But that's okay.

You know what I mean?

Like it's funny,

I've mentioned the writer Thomas More before.

A long time ago I read his book called Care of the Soul.

And he coined a phrase in there that I'm going to say wrong,

Which doesn't make any sense to repeat it.

But he replaced self with soul.

Like self-driven versus soul-driven.

To imagine that if you're simply flowing through your soul's path,

It may be considered by others self-driven or selfish.

But instead,

Imagine it's soul-driven.

And what else are we supposed to be doing?

We're living from our soul.

And if someone else is angry because we're making choices that are soul-driven,

It's highly likely it's because they're not living from their soul.

If they were living from their soul,

They'd be like,

You go girl,

You do it.

I know it's hard,

But live from your soul.

Maybe it'll inspire others to live from their soul.

Maybe they need to see the contrast.

It doesn't matter what their journey is.

But there's really something,

There's something about that.

Toxic positivity.

Oh,

I was hit with the toxic positivity club because we're taught to be positive no matter what.

Turn that frown upside down.

Why are you only seeing the negative side of this?

And there's something hilarious about it,

Right?

It's like I remember like,

You know,

When I wrote What If You Could Skip the Cancer?

That book was about the times when I was first married.

You know,

I mean,

I was sick in 1999.

I was married in 1993.

So I was married for six years.

At that time,

I had a two and a four year old.

We had a dairy farm.

You know,

It was hard.

I was 29 years old.

Right?

We were 29 years old with babies and stuff.

Right?

And I remember someone writing me once and saying,

I can't believe you shared all this,

These really personal things publicly.

And I thought,

Yeah,

But I'm not any different than anyone else.

Living with someone's hard,

Whether you're married or not.

Having children is hard.

Running a business together is hard.

We don't have to pretend it's easy.

We don't have to be positive about it all the time.

That's what got me into so much trouble.

That's what got breast lumps growing in my breast,

Because I was literally internalizing all this crap and pretending I was fine.

The best thing I could have ever done was to dive into negative aspects.

It's not negative.

It's just what it is.

And then,

I mean,

You can kind of smell toxic positivity a mile away because it's not balanced.

It's not real.

Right?

Even courage.

The joys of courage,

Like even earlier when we were talking about how it feels so untethered.

Right?

It feels so lost and full of second guessing and wonder and I don't know.

And that's when someone might say the negative side of courage,

Because you don't know.

It's so unknown.

Oh,

I'm so stressed out.

That's not negative.

That's what it means to actually grow.

That means that I'm at my growth edge.

I'm trying something new.

I'm stepping outside of my comfort zone.

There's nothing,

There's no such thing as I don't want to hear someone say,

You can do it one step.

I don't want to hear that stuff.

I want to hear.

Yeah,

It's hard,

Man.

It's tough.

You're going to lose sleep over this.

That's what I want to hear because it's real.

And then I know that this person's actually done it.

Right?

They've actually,

They've actually tried.

They've actually stepped outside their comfort zone.

So I don't know,

Whenever I hear positivity,

That's not grounded in reality.

I go,

Who was it?

Simon Sinek did a talk a while ago and he compared optimism to positivity.

And he said,

Optimism is excellent.

Positivity?

Forget that.

And I love that.

I think that's,

That's optimism is hope.

Positivity is only wanting to see one side,

Is only wanting to see rose colored glasses or something.

Right?

My rage turns into sadness.

Any suggestions on how to shift into anger?

It's funny,

Right?

Because the higher,

I'm going to say higher,

But the higher levels like anger over loss,

Like sadness could be grief.

So oftentimes the upper levels can mask the lower levels.

So it's good that if,

If you get angry and you fall in that it releases something and it allows us to feel sadness or it allows us to feel grief or shame or anything we're hiding under there.

And that's a really perfect part of the journey.

To really like,

Thank goodness you got angry.

Thank goodness that happened.

Because then you can feel the sadness that's underneath it.

And then we feel that sadness completely.

There's no timeline on this either.

Right?

Sometimes things like grief,

We try to hurry.

We try to rush it.

But we don't know why our soul has to feel this for as long as it does.

And then to allow ourselves to feel it until our soul says,

I'd like to take a step forward now.

You know,

It's a whole different world.

When people try to use,

What will people think my reply is,

What other people think of me as in my business?

Right?

What will people think?

I love that.

It's almost like if we had any idea what people actually are thinking,

We would run for the hills.

In a million ways.

And we have no idea,

Like,

No idea what anyone thinks.

I would combat negative comments and negative life experience focused without optimism,

But it wasn't accepted and I fear my optimism and hope for good is toxic positivity.

That's so thank you for saying that.

That's a really,

Really interesting truth.

It's like sometimes we as humans focus too much on our words.

We think we need to connect with each other through our words.

But what we really need to do is connect through the heart.

And if someone's really hurting.

And we feel that hurt,

We feel their pain,

We feel their grief,

We feel their fear.

Sometimes the well,

Probably always the best thing to do is just resonate with them.

I don't mean feel fear,

Feel anger,

Feel whatever,

But just honor that.

Almost like,

Like I remember when my kids were little,

And my son was bullied a lot at school,

Like really brutally bullied.

And so he would come home and I could just feel his little heartbreaking,

Which broke my heart,

Like broke me.

And I have to tell you,

Not rising into anger was a bit of a challenge.

But I could have said a million things.

I could have said,

Oh,

Honey,

You know this and that and I could have I could have said so many things.

But the best thing I could do is just to sit with him and hang out with him.

And then I would tell him stories of when I was bullied in school.

And maybe I would remember and not to take away and say,

Oh,

Yeah,

I've been there too.

This is what happened to me and make it about you.

That's not what I mean.

But to really even dig deep into ourselves and say,

Yeah,

I remember.

Like I remember one time someone asked the Dalai Lama.

He said,

They said,

What's the worst thing you've ever experienced?

And the Dalai Lama sat for a while thinking about it.

And then he told some story about children,

Something he'd seen in the world,

Which was really horrible.

And the reporter said,

Oh,

My God,

Like,

How did you ever get over that?

And the Dalai Lama just looked at him and said,

I didn't.

And there's something about owning that part of being human.

That maybe I never got over being bullied.

Maybe I never got over being shamed or being excluded.

You know,

Maybe that always lives with us.

And as long as we own that,

Maybe it's important.

Maybe it's important for it's sort of that that roomy thing,

You know,

That you can never be alone because the whole universe is inside of you.

When we say that we are all it means we are all like we can feel shame,

We can feel pride,

We can feel enlightenment,

We can feel anger.

We have all of it inside of us.

And so if we come up to someone and they're hurting,

Or they're frightened.

What if it isn't about drawing them out of it with optimism?

What if it's not about that?

What if it's just about going,

Yeah,

I really hear you.

It's hard.

And if they say,

Well,

What do I do about it?

Then maybe we can say,

Well,

This has really helped me or I read this book once that talked about this.

I don't know if that helps.

You know,

Like,

There's something about just coming from the heart right instead of.

Yeah,

Maybe if,

If we try to get them out of it through words,

Maybe that is toxic optimism,

Because we're not even with them.

Like I've told you guys stories about when my mom was dying and she was in the hospital and people wouldn't know what to say to her.

They wouldn't know what to do,

Because she was dying.

And it was the people that would just be able to come in and just be with her.

Be with the sadness,

Maybe even cry with her.

Maybe even say,

God,

This sucks.

But you know,

I'm reading this book right now.

And it's hilarious.

It's about mechanical failure and the droids have taken over the earth.

Right.

Like,

It's something there's something about just being with people.

But it's really important thing to look at.

I'm afraid of being perceived as narcissistic or actually becoming a narcissist.

I think this is why I try to care so much for others.

That's really beautiful.

I think that's a beautiful consciousness.

You know,

Just to even know that I don't ever want to become disconnected.

But to swim between those shores right to kind of play between there.

It's like,

Somehow,

I can't get I'm not helping you by being caught up in your stuff.

But I want to stay connected to you and care.

I think it's a beautiful place to swim between.

I think it's a great consciousness to hold exactly what you've just said.

It's just to stay in that place that it's not it's not just this all the time.

It's so wonderful.

How do you get the other to honor my emotions?

Instead,

It comes off as she's just selfish and creates a divide.

How do you get someone with a different opinion to listen or see my emotion as honest truth?

My sense of that is is back to that Gandhi's Satyagraha piece where it's never about convincing someone else to see our way or convincing someone else that my emotion is real.

It's just about knowing that for some reason,

This is how I see it.

And we're all allowed to see things differently.

And if that's not allowed,

There's nothing you can do about it.

If that's not allowed in the other person's eyes,

Then that's 100 percent their journey.

That my emotions are real.

They are real.

And that's it.

No one else decides what my emotions are.

Right.

But we have to realize that we have to know that that my emotions aren't real because someone else believes me.

Or maybe we have to look at that and say,

Wait a minute,

Are my emotions real?

So they either are real and we know it.

Or we have to ask ourselves,

Is this a is this a secondary emotion?

Is there something else I'm supposed to actually be like?

Maybe I'm sad,

But I'm presenting sadness because that's OK.

But maybe I'm furious.

Maybe the reason it's coming up as a question for you.

Because maybe that emotion isn't quite right,

But it's never about convincing someone else.

If they're not paying attention,

Then they're not paying attention.

You know,

That's their reality.

And then we we make different choices.

The monk ordered pizza.

He says,

I'll have one with everything.

That's going to be my new favorite pizza.

That's awesome.

Well,

Thank you guys so much for joining me today.

And I look forward to seeing you soon.

Have a lovely day,

A lovely evening.

See you later.