Narcissists Will Turn Family & Friends Into Flying Monkeys

Welcome to the Breakdown to Breakthrough Podcast.

My name is Lisa A.

Romano.

I am a life coach,

Bestselling author,

YouTube vlogger,

Meditation teacher,

And expert in the field of codependency and narcissistic abuse.

I am a believer in the power of an organized mind.

My aim is to help people learn what it means to live above the veil of consciousness rather than living a reactive life.

May your heart feel blessed,

Your mind feel expanded,

And your spirit find hope as you spend time with me here at the Breakdown to Breakthrough Podcast.

So today we're going to be talking about how narcissists can turn your friends and even your family into blind monkeys.

So I think it's important that we begin this session with a brief description of what a narcissist is and maybe even dive into a little bit of narcissism.

And so everybody has a little dose of narcissism.

In fact,

Narcissism is essential to develop the I am.

Who am I?

Where do I begin?

Where do you begin?

Who am I in terms of what do I think?

What do I feel?

What are my needs and what are my goals?

Narcissism exists on a spectrum.

And when it becomes difficult,

We begin to see personality traits like entitlements,

Like a lack of empathy,

Self-absorption,

Grandiosity.

We are talking to people and we feel like we want to pull our hair out because things that they're saying are illogical,

They don't make sense,

And they're not based in reality.

If you are a friend of someone who has high narcissistic traits,

You might be someone who rolls their eyes a lot.

You might hear yourself saying things like,

Well,

He or she exaggerates a lot.

Yeah,

They like to be right all the time.

They like to one-up people.

Then you may be highly aggravated by this person or mildly agitated by this person.

But you're going to notice that this person has traits that are making it uncomfortable for you to be around them.

Now someone who is more malignant on the narcissistic scale may have narcissistic personality disorder.

This is someone who is vindictive.

This is someone who has delusions of grandeur.

This is someone who,

Like I said earlier,

Lacks empathy.

Has a sense of entitlement and is very exploitative.

So this is a person that thinks they are right all the time.

So if that means that you don't match in their head the person that they think you should be,

They have a right to punish you.

They will one-up you.

They feel better than you.

They need you to either fear them and or adore them.

And so narcissists will,

Yeah,

Sure,

In the beginning,

They love-bomb people,

But it has nothing to do with the victim.

It really has everything to do with the narcissist because it's like driving around in a red Ferrari.

It makes the person driving the car look good.

Now I'm not saying that everybody who drives a red Ferrari is a narcissist.

What I'm trying to say is that if a narcissist love-bombs you,

That's because they're trying to convince themselves that you're awesome.

So they feel good about being with you.

When you are in a romantic relationship with a narcissist over time,

Maybe you forget to bring the milk home,

Or maybe you challenge them,

Or maybe you say,

I don't like when you talk to me like that,

Or maybe they are exploiting you in some way and you call them out on it.

Narcissists will see that as a challenge and over time you will be devalued because you are now showing them that you see something in them.

They have yet to be able to integrate or process within themselves.

A narcissist can't tell themselves the truth that they are exploitative,

That they make mistakes,

That they judge people,

That they're wrong.

They can't admit it to themselves.

So of course they're not going to be able to admit it to anyone else.

And so this is why dealing with narcissism in terms of therapy is very difficult because there is a lack of self-awareness,

There's a lack of self-knowledge,

There's a lack of personal insight,

And a whole lot of defensiveness.

When a narcissist is talking to you,

They really expect you to agree with them.

And if you don't agree with them,

They can get very snarky,

Very defensive,

They can even become abusive.

So when we're understanding narcissism,

We're understanding that it exists on a spectrum,

I think it's also important to say that just because I have a bad day,

Just because you have a bad day,

Just because you get snarky once in a while,

Doesn't mean that you're a narcissist.

It means you had a bad moment.

What we're looking for is a pervasive pattern.

This is someone who doesn't just have this fly-by-night situation where they're ornery and they're making a big deal out of nothing and they can even be exploitative in the moment.

What we're looking for is in a friend or in a partner,

Even in our parents or even in ourselves,

We're looking for a pervasive pattern of this type of behavior.

So this isn't someone who has a bad day,

This is someone who has a string of bad days.

In other words,

It's their temperament and it's become their personality and you can't ignore it now.

How does a narcissist then turn your friends and your families,

Even your coworkers,

People that you love,

Your social circle into flying monkeys?

It happens over time.

And if it's ever happened to you,

You are probably someone who's quite shocked.

You've ended a relationship with a narcissist,

It could be a friend.

You've ended a relationship with a narcissist,

It could be a romantic relationship.

You may have even decided to go no contact with a narcissistic family.

And to you,

It's over,

You're trying to heal.

Maybe you've moved out of the house,

Maybe you've moved to another town.

You've gone to a different yoga studio.

You really,

You go into a different bank,

You're shopping in a different place.

You want nothing to do with this narcissistic experience anymore.

And lo and behold,

You start to notice on Facebook that the narcissist that you were with is now friending your friends,

Or is now a friend of your friends.

You go to a different yoga studio and suddenly the narcissist shows up at your yoga studio and is now talking to all your new friends and you're put on the spot.

The narcissist now is inviting your friends and your family over for the holidays.

The narcissist that you have left is suddenly reaching out to your friends and saying things like,

Have you heard from Lisa?

Have you heard from Mary?

Have you heard from Don?

Have you heard from Jack?

I'm really worried about them.

The last time we spoke,

They were a little bit unhinged.

So the stage is being set for triangulation.

So in that context,

What's happening is the narcissist is regaining their power.

So you left them.

You're no longer with them and they need to feel like they're one up on you.

So how did they do that?

They begin triangulating you.

They begin speaking to your friends and your family poorly about you,

But it's done in a very covert way.

I went through this when my ex called my mom after we had a heated argument after he told me that he was going to stop paying the mortgage and took complete control over our finances.

I found out a year later that on the same day,

He called my mother and told her that I had threatened to hurt myself,

Which was a bold faced lie.

But think about the tactic.

An argument was created.

It was really heated.

I was gaslit.

I was put on notice that I was going to be in financial ruin or that was the suggestion.

You're never going to be able to make it without me.

And of course I got upset.

That's terrible to do to someone.

And I did cry and I was upset and it was a little bit out of control.

It really was.

But think about the mindset of someone leaving that house then knowing that there's a potential that I could call my mom and complain,

Which I never did.

And think about the person then who makes the phone call to my mother who says,

Hey,

How are you?

Very calm,

Very cool and very collected.

Yeah,

I just want you to know I just left the house and I'm worried about Lisa.

She threatened to hurt herself and it never happened.

Think about the manipulation that is going on on that level.

So what happens in that scenario?

My mom doesn't know what's going on.

I never called her.

In that situation,

My mom then thinks that this person has my best interest at heart.

So it's not difficult to understand how someone who doesn't have the whole story is being groomed to be a flying monkey and they don't even know it.

Another thing that narcissists will do is they will begin hovering around wherever you hang out.

So if there's a club that you like to go to,

They're there.

They start talking to the people that you know.

Let's say you have a dog and you go to a particular pet groomer.

The narcissist will get a dog and suddenly be at the pet groomer and you won't even know it.

You'll end in casual conversations,

Will bring your name up to the vet tech or the groomer and begin a conversation about you.

They may even build you up in the beginning,

But as time goes on,

Remember you don't know this is happening,

But as time goes on,

The narcissist will begin to say things that are negative about you.

He or she might say things that you have anxiety,

That you never really got along with your parents.

So it could be a bold faced lie,

But the goal is to triangulate you in this situation with the pet groomer or the vet tech.

So why,

Why would a narcissist do it?

It's because of their need to feel dominant in your life.

Because the idea that they aren't able to control you in the context of a relationship is just too much for them.

They have seen you as their target,

You're a source of narcissistic supply.

You have shifted from being a primary source of narcissistic supply or the type of narcissistic supply that makes them feel good about themselves.

And so now you will become a source of narcissistic supply for them by exerting dominance over you through this type of tactic.

So let's say you have a child with a narcissist and you now go to separate parent teacher conferences.

What do you think is going to happen at the parent teacher conference?

The narcissist is going to say negative things about you at the parent teacher conference.

The narcissist might lie and say,

Yeah,

I've seen my wife yell at my son and I've seen her hit him.

I don't like it.

I told her to get therapy for her anger management issues,

But you know,

She never listened to me.

Maybe you'll have better luck at suggesting that she needs some anger management.

It's very covert.

It's malicious.

It's exploitative.

And again,

You don't know it's happening.

Someone who is in this position,

Someone who is a narcissist,

Someone who puts other people in this position is emotionally manipulating the entire play.

So if you imagine a narcissist as an actor on a stage,

Their agenda is to pull as many people into this delusional reality as they possibly can.

So everybody is fair game.

Your child can be turned into a flying monkey.

So how was mommy yesterday?

Maybe mommy had a bad day at work or maybe the narcissist knows that your,

That your boss gives you a rough time.

Or maybe the narcissist knows at the end of the month,

You're an accountant at the end of the month,

It's a really,

It's crunch time for you.

So you don't have as much patience as you normally do for the rest of the month.

The narcissist will use that against you in a conversation with your child.

Is mommy on edge?

It's,

You know,

It's not your fault if mommy's on edge,

You know,

You can tell mommy,

Mommy,

You're on edge.

If you think mommy's on edge,

If you think that mommy's sleeping too much,

Or if you think mom is being a little bit too abrasive,

You know,

You have a right to tell her junior,

You have a right to speak up for yourself because mom used to treat me that way.

And so I don't ever want her to talk to you that way.

So buddy,

Make sure that you speak up.

So what's happening?

This child is being exploited by the narcissist that knows exactly what they're doing.

They're deliberately trying to turn your children against you,

Trying to turn your child into a flying monkey.

Again,

If you have ever been in this situation,

It is one of the most difficult things to wrap your mind around that you had a child with this person that you care about the mental integrity of your child,

Your partner has a completely different mindset.

Your partner is maybe even unaware that they see their child as a pawn.

When you're dealing with a narcissist,

One of the most difficult things to really,

Really get a hold of is that their mind functions differently than yours.

The relationship was difficult.

It was hard to get past relationship ambivalence.

You finally come to a place in your life where you feel like it's,

I have to leave.

Like the relationship was never really truthful,

Authentic and good to begin with the experiences that we have a far more negative than they are positive.

I do generally walk around on eggshells.

I fear this person.

I never know what's going to happen next.

I'm physically exhausted.

My body is failing.

I'm done.

And so you're done and you want it to be over.

And in a healthy situation,

You have that right.

You have that right to say,

I've decided to end this relationship.

It can be difficult for those of us who are trying to end relationships,

Even a healthy relationship and convince ourselves that we're actually done with the relationship.

But when you're dealing with someone who is highly narcissistic or who has NPD,

This water gets very,

Very muddy.

So let's say you've decided to end a relationship with someone who is highly narcissistic.

Please understand you have that right to end that relationship.

Even if no one else understands it,

You have a right to say,

I'm not walking around on eggshells anymore.

There are more negative times than there are good times.

We were never really happy in the first place.

I'm not doing this pros and cons thing anymore.

I'm just going to go by how I feel.

I distrust this person and it's over for me.

You have a right to do that.

However,

When you're dealing with a narcissist,

This is a finger in their eye.

In their head,

You don't have the right to move forward.

You don't have the right to leave them.

And when you abandon them,

You set off within them,

Not your fault,

An onslaught of these mini bombs.

And they have to find ways to compensate for feeling like they've lost power.

So they will stalk you.

They will humiliate you on Facebook.

They will try to make your friends flying monkeys.

They will turn your children against you.

They will financially abuse you.

They will not sign divorce papers.

They will do terrible things in the aftermath of you telling them the truth.

This is over for me and I'm done.

I think that's one of the telltale signs of narcissism is this vindictiveness,

Is this retaliation.

Healthy people don't do it.

Healthy people get angry just like everybody else.

But healthy people,

Even if they have a bad moment,

They don't hold on.

They don't want to hold on.

So in the aftermath of ending a relationship with a narcissist,

And even sometimes in the relationship with a narcissist,

You will discover that behind your back,

The narcissist was trying to turn your children against you.

You just didn't know it.

He or she was saying things that you were unfit or suggesting that you shouldn't be trusted with finances,

Things like that.

After the relationship has ended,

Do not be surprised if your narcissist is sitting at your mother and father's dinner table.

Do not be surprised if your sister is calling you and say,

Hey,

I just heard from Jack.

Is everything okay?

He said the last time he saw you,

You were a little bit unhinged.

Don't be surprised.

Laugh about it.

Chuckle about it because it's so freaking predictable and it's so pathetic.

And the less you allow it to bother you,

The more you hold onto your power.

The reason I like to create sessions like this is to give people the heads up.

Been there,

Done that.

And while I was in it,

I didn't know what I was going through.

And that's why I was so frustrated.

That's why I reacted.

That's why I felt so powerless.

It took me a while to understand that I was dealing with an emotional bully.

And the less I saw him as someone I needed to fear,

The more power that I had.

Now,

Interestingly enough,

It wasn't about battling him back that gave me the power.

In fact,

It was about relinquishing power.

It was about going no contact.

It was about shut the shut the.

It was about gray rock.

It was about aha,

Aha,

Aha,

Aha,

Almost yesing him to death.

And when people came to me and told me,

Oh,

I heard this story about you.

Not in the beginning.

In the beginning,

I was shaking in my boots.

My knees were shaking.

I was so upset when I was hearing stories come back to me because they were half truths and they were distorted truths.

And so that was like a minutia.

That was a playground of minutia.

It was quagmire.

It was like I couldn't gain traction because there were just so many things that I would have to deflect and try to explain to people.

And I thought,

Why do I have to explain to strangers my reality?

I know the truth.

God knows the truth.

And even this person knows the truth.

But this person wants to create this smokescreen of shame around me and who I am by distorting the truth.

And then I if I fall for that,

Then I am disempowered.

Then I don't have the ability to stand grounded.

I am more worried about what other people are thinking about me than what I think about me.

I can't take care of my children.

I can't be the best version of myself for my clients.

I can't keep producing at work.

I can't take care of my home because my mind now is arrested by worrying about what people think about me.

When you're dealing with someone who lies and who makes up stories,

It is endless.

Imagine going to the movies and the movie never ended.

I mean,

That's what it feels like.

And so at one point,

Those of us who are involved with these types of personalities,

We've got to let go.

We've got to say the end,

Game over.

I'm walking out of this theater.

It really is a drama.

It's a play for them.

And they're locked inside their own head.

We have to decide how long are we going to play inside the mind of a narcissist?

How long are we going to allow someone to make us feel disempowered?

How long are we going to allow this bullying to continue?

And once we begin to shift and we understand,

Wait a minute,

My power is in nonverbal communication.

My power is in understanding the predictable,

Pathetic nature of someone who is losing control.

If you can develop this attitude and you can create this mindset shift,

Then you can predict what a narcissist is going to do.

So when your sister calls you and says,

Hey,

I just heard from Andy and he said,

You can say to hurt your sister,

Let me guess,

Let me stop you right there,

Let me guess.

So he said I was going to have a nervous breakdown and he's concerned about me.

And your sister says,

Yeah,

How did you know?

You can laugh.

And you say,

Of course,

I could have predicted this.

I can only imagine what he's telling my kid's teacher.

I can only imagine what he's telling my yoga teacher.

I can only imagine what he's telling the grocer or the checkout girl at Whole Foods that I happen to chit chat with every Sunday afternoon when I go to Whole Foods.

So it can almost become funny when you're dealing with someone who is this predictable.

Those of us who have emotional trauma in the background,

It's a lot more difficult.

It's a lot more of a tango and a dance,

If you will,

To extricate ourselves from this drama that a narcissist creates in our lives through the delusions that they have in their own head because we're dealing with our own emotional trauma,

The fear of abandonment,

The fear of rejection.

So that becomes part of this minutia of a dynamic that we have to extricate ourselves from.

However,

Understanding that this is the predictable nature of a narcissist will allow you to at least create a space where you can see,

Wow,

There is a pattern.

There was love bombing.

There was a devaluing stage where I was put down.

There was a little bit of a discard.

There was this abandonment of me and this person tried to Hoover me back in.

Wow,

These apologies go nowhere.

If you're dealing with a narcissist,

Sure,

They say they're sorry.

Some say they're sorry and nothing ever changes.

So it's groundhog's day,

Right?

And then you stay stuck and you can feel like,

Well,

They did acknowledge it.

So you play the pro con game like,

Well,

They did say they're sorry,

But nothing ever changed.

You have to look at the fact of the matter.

You have to look at the pattern.

I would say even be cautious about your emotions because your emotions are being manipulated to use your logical and rational mind to understand like,

Wow,

There is a pattern here and things don't get better.

And this really is how I feel.

I can see the predictable nature of it.

He has tried to turn my kids against me.

He is turning my family into flying monkeys.

If you can see the predictable nature of it,

Then you can create a space.

Now with that space,

Now you're not getting pulled in anymore.

Now you're going gray rock.

Now you're shutty shutty.

Uh huh.

You're not reacting to them anymore.

It's almost like you're filling up a reservoir of energy within you.

The narcissist isn't able to manipulate anymore.

Now as you are going no contact and taking care of yourself,

If you have emotional trauma in your background,

If you have a wounded inner child,

If you were dealing with ACOA issues,

You're the adult child of an alcoholic,

You have caretaker tendencies,

You tend to be a people pleaser,

You struggle with setting boundaries.

That's a separate issue.

Those issues have been exploited,

But that is a separate issue.

And that has to be dealt with because if it's not dealt with in this relationship,

It's going to resurface in another relationship.

Dear ones,

You are enough and the power to heal your life is within you.

We just got to take back your mind.

Bye for now.