Letting Go Of The “Me” You Think Life Is Happening To

Some of you may be familiar with Marcus Aurelius,

Who was the famous Roman emperor,

Also a very famous philosopher of Stoicism.

And he used to write every single day in his journal,

And his journal eventually got turned into the book Meditations,

Which some of you may be familiar with.

And in book two of Meditations,

He writes to himself,

He writes this reflection that he wants himself to remember every day.

He says,

You know,

Every day I should wake up,

And I should remember that I'm going to encounter people that will lie to me,

People that are deceitful,

People that are arrogant,

People that are unkind,

That will try and cheat me.

And I'm kind of paraphrasing this a little bit,

But basically,

This was the gist of what his entry was.

And it wasn't to be cynical,

By any stretch,

It was really just to prepare him for the day ahead for what he was going to face as a Roman emperor every day.

And it was really based on wisdom,

Because Stoicism and Buddhism very much see the world as arising through causes and conditions,

That each of us arises based on who our parents were,

Where we were born,

What kind of experiences we had growing up,

What our circumstances are,

What things we were exposed to,

What things we weren't exposed to.

And so because there's a variety of different conditions that each of us is experiencing,

That how we're arising,

There is a variety of human behaviors.

And so when Marcus Aurelius would be saying to himself that these were all the types of people that he was going to meet each day,

It was really so that he didn't get lost in his anger and his frustration and irritation at this,

That instead he would expect it.

And so Buddhism is very similar in that,

Of course,

We're also preparing the mind,

But we go a step further and we ask,

Who is it that's reacting?

Who is it that's angry?

Who is it that's hurt?

Who is it that's disappointed?

Because there is this strong felt sense that there is a me,

A solid,

Independent,

Inherently existing me,

That all of this is happening to.

And this is what makes it so hard for us to let go of our anger,

Because it feels so personal as though it's all happening to me,

Right?

And why is this happening to me?

And this shouldn't be happening to me.

And so because we think it's happening to a me,

A solid,

Independent me,

This is what we cling to,

And at the same time,

Cling to our suffering.

And so there's a nice Zen parable to kind of move us along with this theme,

Where a young monk is looking for a very quiet place to meditate.

It's very busy at the monastery these days,

Very noisy.

And so he comes across this lake.

It's very early in the morning.

No one's around.

The lake is very still.

And he sees a couple of boats that are tied up to the pier.

And he thinks,

I'll just hop in one of those boats.

I'll go out into the center of the lake.

And off he goes.

And he thinks,

This is great.

No one's going to disturb me here.

I'll be very quiet.

I'll be able to have a very peaceful meditation.

So he puts the oars inside.

He closes his eyes,

Having a very nice,

Very peaceful meditation,

Until he eventually hears or feels this jolt,

As though another boat is hitting his boat.

And he kind of stiffens up a little bit.

He's kind of like,

What the heck's going on?

I'm out in the middle of this lake.

Why is someone knocking their boat into my boat?

But he thinks,

You know what?

It was probably just a mistake.

I'm not going to open my eyes.

I'm not going to engage with the other person.

I'm going to stay meditating.

And then a few minutes later,

There's the same thing.

His boat's getting knocked by the other boat.

And he's starting to get a little irritated now.

He's starting to get angry at what's happening.

But again,

He's like,

But I'm not going to open my eyes.

Surely this person is just going to go away,

Right?

So I'm not going to engage with them.

And then a few moments later,

Again,

The other boat knocks into his boat.

At this point,

He's furious.

He's so angry.

And as his eyes fly open to yell at the other person in the boat,

He sees there is no one in the boat.

And instantly all the anger dissolves.

Because he can see it was just the current.

It was just the wind that brought the boat,

The other boat out to him that it got untethered somehow from the dock.

And it was just the activity that brought the other boat to his boat.

It wasn't personal.

It was just activity.

And so everything is just activity,

Right?

We don't get angry at the rain.

We don't get angry at the wind.

We don't get angry at the sun,

Right?

We recognize this is all just activity.

It's just movement happening,

That this is how life happens.

Because without activity,

Without movement,

There would be no life.

But there's nothing personal here going on.

Of course,

Until our activity interacts with another person that maybe cuts us off on the freeway.

And then immediately we feel like it's personal.

Immediately we feel justified in our anger,

In our suffering,

In our clinging to this shouldn't be happening.

How dare this happen to me?

And yet there is no difference between the person cutting us off on the freeway than the empty boat knocking into the monk's boat.

But we take it all so personally.

And it's almost as if you could imagine we're all in our little boats and all of our different causes and conditions and the wind and the currents and our desires and our fears.

And I've to get over there and I've got commitments over there and I'm responsible for this over there,

Here.

And all of this movement,

All of this activity,

We keep knocking into each other and taking it so personally.

And yet it is all very impersonal.

It's just activity.

Life happening.

Not happening,

Life not happening for us,

Not happening to us,

Just life happening.

But we go up into our heads and this is where all the little thinking is happening about what I want and what I don't want and why they shouldn't be doing that over there and how is that affecting me even though it's not at all,

Right?

So all of this thinking and at the little me.

So we perceive ourselves as all of this activity happening,

Just the thinking about the activity.

And at the center of this activity is a little solid,

Independent,

Inherently existing me that all of this is happening to.

And this is what the Buddha is pointing to in the teaching of no self.

Not that we don't exist,

We all exist,

But that we don't exist the way we think we exist.

That each and every one of us is a process,

An activity,

Not a thing,

Not a noun.

And that everything in the universe is simply activity,

Different conditions coming together,

Right?

Interdependent,

Interconnected,

Different appearances arising,

Lori arising,

Sandy arising,

Pamela arising,

Meredith arising,

Right?

And we arise and the conditions keep changing and changing and changing until eventually,

You know,

The appearance goes out of being,

Right?

The mountains arising,

The lakes arising,

The oceans arising,

Changing,

Changing,

Changing,

Cities arising,

Towns arising,

Cars arising,

All of these things coming together and changing moment by moment.

No nouns anywhere in the universe.

And that includes us.

But then the moment someone cuts us off,

The moment someone looks at us the wrong way,

The moment someone cuts in front of us in line or our neighbor starts playing music too loudly,

In an instant,

In a nanosecond,

The little me appears.

And part of it is just habit,

It's just habit,

We're so used to it,

Right?

It's just this automatic response,

This is happening to me.

And then it's a trick of language and a trick of the brain.

Because I'm angry,

The way we say it,

Subject,

Object,

Duality,

It appears as though there is something solid and independent that this is happening to.

And yet we never check it.

It just keeps going,

We just keep going with the assumption that there is a me that this is happening to.

And this is where we bring mindfulness into our practice,

Right?

To recognize what's happening,

Right?

To recognize if there's anger arising,

If there's disappointment arising,

To come in and allow ourselves to feel what's here,

Right?

Anger arising,

No problem,

No problem,

Right?

Anger arising and then we feel it in the body and we breathe mindfully.

And it's still a little bit unpleasant,

But it's not nearly as bad as it was a moment ago when I was angry.

And then as we're breathing mindfully,

Allowing the feelings of anger to be here,

Not the story,

But the feelings.

And then we can investigate.

We can investigate about the anger.

What are the assumptions that I'm making here?

Am I making an assumption that my neighbor is a psychopath for playing music?

Is that true?

Am I making an assumption that no one should ever cut me off on the freeway?

Because is that realistic?

Is that true?

Or maybe we bring a bit more tenderness to what it is that's happening here,

Right?

And we could say to the feeling,

What is it that you need right now?

Right?

We know we've talked about this a lot in feeling our feelings.

Often behind the anger,

There's a lot of hurt.

Maybe there's some fear,

Right?

And so we can think,

Well,

Let me just be with what's here.

Let me open some space to what's here.

Maybe bring some self-compassion,

What we talked about last week,

A little bit of kindness and saying,

It's okay to feel this.

And yeah,

This is a tough situation.

It's okay to be with it,

Right?

So we bring in some nurturing,

Right?

So again,

We're not so caught up in it that me,

This is happening to me,

There's a little bit more of a sense of spaciousness and ease.

And of course,

This is using the RAIN acronym that we've talked about many,

Many times in mindfulness,

Recognize,

Allow,

Investigate,

Nurture,

Right?

But the N,

The N,

Nurture,

Excuse me,

The N is,

It wasn't always,

It didn't always stand for nurture.

In fact,

It got changed,

I don't know,

Maybe five,

10 years ago.

And I think because of a lot of really good psychological,

Excuse me,

Psychologists that were also teachers recognizing that we're really hard on ourselves,

And we really have a hard time being with our feelings.

And so,

So the N got switched to nurture.

And I think that's a good thing,

Because we do need to know how to feel our feelings.

But the N originally,

In the RAIN acronym,

Stood for no self,

No independent,

Inherently existing self.

So to ask ourselves,

To whom does this anger belong?

To whom does this hurt belong?

To whom does this disappointment belong?

Because there is such a felt sense that there is some ownership of our anger,

Of our hurt,

Of our disappointment,

Of our thoughts,

That there is something solid and independent here that is experiencing all of this.

And this is why it's so important that while we,

We use mindfulness to come into our experience and to feel and to inquire,

And to learn to,

Or to practice being with what's here in a way that starts to dissipate the intensity of the emotions and the intensity of the feeling that there's a me that this is happening to.

But if we,

If we don't go further than that,

We will still believe that there is a me that this is happening to.

It's just that we used our mindfulness practice to kind of settle it down for a little bit.

But we didn't go that extra step to inquire,

To whom is this happening to?

So when we ask this question,

We're not asking to have an answer,

To have an intellectual answer.

It's to pull the rug out from under the assumption that there is a thing,

A noun,

A solid,

Independent,

Separate me that all of this activity is happening to.

And so it's to see directly that we are not a thing.

We're not nothing.

We still exist,

But we are not a thing.

So when we ask the question,

When we're,

When we're feeling stressed,

And the mind's going a million miles an hour,

And it's,

Oh,

I'm so stressed.

I need to get over there.

I need to get this done.

This is such a nightmare.

And we ask the question,

Who's stressed?

Right?

Not as a way to mean that the stress automatically dissipates,

Because it doesn't.

Maybe stress is what's appropriate in this situation.

There's a lot going on.

The flight's about to leave.

You got to run.

But what it does in that moment is it immediately unburdens you of the me that you think the stress is happening to.

Because that is the burden,

Is the me at the center of it.

The stress itself,

No problem,

Because the stress is arising and passing away based on trillions of causes and conditions.

And we all experience it.

We have those moments when things get a little fast,

But the moment we start perceiving it as this is happening to me,

That's when we suffer.

So when we ask the question,

You know,

We're feeling really tired,

And we're saying to ourselves,

I'm so tired.

I'm so tired.

Oh,

I'm just so tired.

I can't take this anymore.

Who's tired?

Who's tired?

Right?

And in asking the question,

Again,

The belief that there was a me that is so tired relieves us of that burden.

It's like we lose 20,

30 pounds in that moment.

We lose probably 30,

40% of the tiredness because the story of the me that is so tired is what makes it so heavy,

So exhausting.

Right?

Still tiredness arising?

Yeah,

Tiredness arising.

But now it's no longer a problem because there is no one that this is happening to.

It's just the activity of tiredness.

Or when we make a mistake,

Or we say the wrong thing,

And we feel like such a fool,

And we say to ourselves,

I'm such a loser.

And then we remember,

And we question,

Who's the loser?

Because there's such a belief that there was an independent solid me that's a loser,

That it feels so real,

It feels so heavy,

It feels so painful.

But then we question,

And it's like,

Oh,

All that's arising right now is the activity of,

I made a mistake,

The activity of,

I said something stupid.

That's all that's arising right now.

And every time we question the assumption that there is a me behind all of this activity,

The story of me that we have been carrying around our whole lives,

That we have been adding on one mistake after another,

One bad moment after another,

One interaction that how dare they did that to me,

That we keep stacking on all of these things and having this story of me that is such a burden that is so heavy to carry around.

But then we start questioning the assumption that this is all happening to someone,

And the story of me falls apart.

And we realize the story of me,

It wasn't keeping me safe,

It wasn't protecting me in any way,

It was a prison.

It was a self-imposed prison that prevents us from living in the moment,

The moment that is always fluid,

That is always changing,

That is simply movement,

Activity,

Just happening.

And so we can flow more easily with life,

With life's ups and downs.

It doesn't mean that we don't experience life's ups and downs,

There's still polarity in the world.

It's the only way we can experience the world,

Up,

Down,

Hot,

Cold,

Gain,

Loss,

Pleasure and pain,

Praise and blame.

It's just that we stop fighting against it because there's a recognizing this is all activity,

There's no one that this is happening to.

So thinking,

Thinking happening,

No problem.

No thinker,

Right?

Doing,

Happening,

Right?

No doer.

Decision making,

Happening,

No decision maker.

So we can still,

We're still thinking because we do still exist,

We are still an activity,

We are still a process,

Thinking can happen.

But not with that,

Oh,

This is happening to me and I can't let go of my thoughts,

Right?

All the suffering because we think the thoughts are happening to a thing instead of just thinking happening.

Or the doing,

Whatever it is that we're doing,

Right?

That often we're like,

I've got to do it faster,

I've got to do it better,

I've got to get over there because of the other side of this,

The doer is going to get something and then we question it,

Where's the doer?

Just doing and then whatever it is you're doing,

You're doing the dishes,

Ironing clothes,

You're cleaning the toilet,

All of a sudden becomes suddenly more enjoyable because it's all just activity.

It's just activity,

Not to get anything out of it,

There's nothing that could get anything out of this,

It's just activity.

So the suffering,

The suffering is because we have misperceived who we are.

We believe we are a thing,

We believe we are a noun,

We believe we are at the center of all of the activity and all the activity that's happening is happening to me.

That is the misperception that we are trying to wake up from.

That's it.

To see that that's not me,

To not create an identity around it,

To not get lost,

To not get attached to this identity.

But to see for ourselves,

Right?

To see,

Ask the questions,

Right?

Ask the direct inquiry question and do it in a way.

And I do find it because,

I mean,

You can ask the question directly,

You can simply ask the question,

Maybe it's just you got a little bit,

You know,

Your mind just got a little bit ahead of you.

Oh,

I got to get over there.

There's a me that doesn't want to be doing what it's doing now and it just needs to get over there.

So it's nothing too intense,

It's nothing too emotional,

Right?

It's just kind of a,

Just that little habit of the mind.

We're rushing out to the car for no reason other than we just always are rushing.

We're always thinking the mind,

You know,

I need to get over there.

The little me needs to get over there.

And so in that case,

We often can just ask the question,

Who needs to get over there?

Who?

Right?

So we ask the question in a way that stops the mind,

That doesn't keep it going,

Right?

That enables us to let go,

It takes our attention away from the story of me,

Of the little me that's going to be happier over there.

And in seeing it in such a clear way that there is nothing there,

Opening up to the movement of what's happening,

The activity of what's happening.

And all of a sudden we feel a little better,

We feel a little lighter,

As we don't rush.

So,

You know,

Maybe we do have to rush to the car,

Maybe we don't have to rush to the car,

But now our actions are appropriate with what's happening.

And not without the burden of the me on top of it.

But if it's,

So we start with little things,

You know,

You're in line,

You're in traffic,

Someone's just cut you off,

Right?

Or maybe that's starting to escalate it a little bit.

But we start with the little things.

And as we build up,

And if you ask the question,

And maybe the answer is,

Well,

It's me,

It's me that's angry,

Right?

We're too in the head then.

And so we can ask the question,

The follow up to that,

Who am I?

Right?

To rest in the I-ness,

The I-ing that's here,

But not the me as a separate,

Independent self.

But even then,

If it's not quieting the mind,

We're probably too much in the head.

And we're trying to do this as an intellectual practice.

And this is not meant to be an intellectual practice.

It's meant to be a direct experience.

And so often I find for people,

It's go through the mindfulness steps first,

Right?

Oh,

The one that's hurt,

The one that's disappointed,

The one that's angry,

Right?

Go through recognizing what's here,

Allowing what's your feeling,

Inquiring,

Nurturing,

So that you really can get out of the head and into the body,

Feeling with what being with what's here.

And as you're here with what's here,

More settled,

Then you can ask the question,

Who was upset?

Who was the owner of that anger?

Who was the owner of those thoughts that couldn't put them down?

Because now that you're more settled,

That might just be the opening that you need now to have the direct inquiry,

To have the direct experience that this line of thinking is taking us to.

And so to not forget the feeling part,

Because I think sometimes people want to jump over the feelings and just get to no self,

Right?

And this is very common in spirituality where people are like,

Oh,

I don't want to feel my feelings.

They're too painful.

I don't want to feel my anxiety.

I don't want to feel my stress.

I don't want to feel my feelings of self-loathing.

I just want to get to no self.

But what we don't realize is what we're doing is saying,

Oh,

I think there's a self there that can't feel these things.

And so I'm going to try and get to no self while thinking there's a self that can't feel these things.

And that's why it doesn't work.

This is why spiritual bypassing doesn't work,

Right?

So being with our feelings is an incredibly important part of our practice,

Because they are just feelings.

There is no feeler behind the feelings.

There's just feelings.

That's the activity of feeling,

Right?

And so the more that we're able to be with our feelings,

To be more mindful of what's happening,

And to really go through the steps.

Don't just say,

Oh,

That's not me,

Right?

There is a point.

There is a point that you get to for sure where it's very easy to just,

Oh,

That's not me.

That's not,

Oh,

I caught it.

Just,

Oh,

That's not me.

But that is because of a lot of previous being with what's here,

Feeling what's here,

Allowing what's here to be here,

Nurturing,

And really being with the feelings in a way that you're with the activity in a way that's very accepting of what's here.

That's not scary to be with what's here.

And so then you're asking the question then from that stage,

Oh,

Well,

Who is it that was afraid?

Who is it that was angry?

So the more that we do that work upfront,

Yeah,

It gets to the point where it's just a,

Oh,

That's not me.

That's not me.

You've seen it enough times.

You're so crystal clear that there is no solid independent self.

But even upon seeing that there's still the momentum of just that activity of the mind,

It still comes up and it's just a,

You kind of catch it.

Oh,

Yeah,

That's not me.

That's not me.

Well,

For a moment I thought it was.

Phew,

It's not me.

But if we try and jump steps,

If we try and leap over things on this path,

We don't get further ahead,

Which is what we think.

We get further away from what it is that we're trying to do,

Which is to wake up,

Right?

This is awakening,

Awakening,

Seeing what I'm not,

Right?

Using mindfulness,

But mindfulness itself is not enough.

Mindfulness of our feelings,

Not enough.

We have to question the assumption of what it is that we think is behind the feelings,

The anger,

The hurt,

The disappointment,

The thoughts.

We have to keep questioning that and not taking shortcuts.

And the more that we do that,

It becomes clearer and clearer that life was never happening to us.

It was never happening for us.

It's just happening.

It's just activity.

There's a seeing,

Not only is there nothing I could grasp out there to hold on to,

There's nothing here that could actually hold on.

It's just activity.

It's just activity and movement happening,

Feeling happening,

Hearing happening,

Thinking happening,

No feeler,

No hearer,

No thinker.

So this is what we investigate to see this.

And this is what awakening is.

It's not some moment where the angel starts singing and this kind of build up that the ego's,

The idea of what the ego thinks enlightenment is.

We're going to talk about that next week.

The ego has really set us up for this magnificent ride through spirituality that's never ending,

Always chasing this bliss and what it expects that this is going to be.

And therefore just keeping us trapped on the path,

Because you're never going to find that or not for very long.

And so it's just to keep seeing,

To keep seeing again and again,

To question what you are not.

And what opens up is what you are,

Not to become something.

Anything that you think you're becoming is just more ego.

And it doesn't matter if it's a spiritual ego,

It doesn't matter if it's the unworthiness of the ego,

Anything that you think you're becoming is still a trap and keeping you caught in the illusion.

We are just,

We are trying to see what we're not.

And we have very beautiful practices that help us come out of the intensity of the situation in a way that we can feel a little bit more balanced,

A little bit more at ease because we're not caught up in it,

But it's not enough to get to that stage.

You have to then question what you think it is that's behind all of this,

The thing that you think all the activity is happening to.

Because now you're getting to the root of the problem.

Before you're just taking the weeds off and that's good,

It's a good place,

Right?

Looks better,

Feels better,

But we've got to get to the root,

The root of suffering,

Which is that we think we are a thing that all this activity is happening to.

And we're not.

So you ask the question you see for yourself.

If there really is a solid independent thing there,

You'll find it.

And if there isn't,

You'll see that too.

And then you move through life and you truly,

You're not burdened.

It doesn't mean things don't happen.

Of course they do,

Or that you don't feel hurt if someone's rude to you or someone's unkind.

Of course,

We're not trying to become robots,

But it's just,

Yeah,

Hurt arising.

Yeah.

Disappointment arising and you be with it,

Right?

And you be with it in a tender way,

In a kind way,

But there is no one that it's happening to.

So therefore there's nothing to stick to us because we understand it's all just activity.

And we have all sorts of activities throughout the day.

We meet many kind people and we meet a lot of people that are suffering and they're not always so kind.

Or people that are just experiencing a lot of really difficult conditions and acting out in ways that are,

That feel threatening.

And yet we question who is it that's feeling threatened?

Nothing.

Just the feeling of threatened was arising.

The feeling of fear arising,

The feel.

And again,

We can respond in a way that's appropriate for the situation,

But we don't have to carry this little me around all day that this was happening to.

Life is just happening.

Life is just happening.

It's all activity.

It's not happening to anything.

It's all activity.

It's just activity.

This is what we're waking up to see.

This is what enlightenment is.

Nothing to hold on to.

Nothing to even let go because you see there was nothing holding on in the first place.

Nothing that could let go.

This is a path of wisdom and compassion.

Don't take shortcuts.

Don't jump over steps.

Just keep being aware of what's happening in your experience.

Be aware of the contraction when it comes in.

It always,

The little me,

The solid,

Independent,

Separate little me that feels like everything is happening to it,

Always comes in with a contraction.

Never without a contraction.

In fact,

It's that contraction which gives it kind of that feeling like,

Oh no,

There really is something,

Right?

And this is why you recognize what's happening.

As soon as you do that,

There's space.

You feel it.

You inquire.

You nurture.

And then you question,

Who was the owner of that thought?

Who was the owner of that feeling?

There is a claiming that's happening that is going by unchecked.

And what we're trying to do is to see that,

To see that.

That's the freedom.

That's the spaciousness.

That's the peace.

There was never anything here that this was happening to.

And that is the freedom.

Yeah.

And Philippe,

As you're saying,

The more you explore what's happening,

The more there's the realization there is no me.

It's just a stream of causes and conditions.

This isn't nihilism to say that we don't exist.

It's not saying we don't exist.

Of course we exist.

Of course we do.

Just that we don't exist the way we think we do.

That is the whole problem in a nutshell.

We don't exist the way we think we do.

We see everything is happening to me,

And it's personal,

And therefore I can see everyone else as being personal,

And their,

You know,

Interactions with me,

And I can get angry,

And I can suffer there.

And it's just one big giant misperception.

It's just a misperception.

But don't let this remain an intellectual exercise.

It's got to be seen directly.

It's got to be seen directly.

So ask the questions.

If you ask the question,

And it doesn't do anything,

If it doesn't pull the rug out from under the belief that there's a solid,

Independent me that this is happening to,

Okay,

It must be too much in the head.

Go into the body.

Recognize what's happening.

Allow what's here.

Feel what's here.

Investigate,

Nurture,

And ask the question again.

And keep asking the question.

Yeah,

I mean,

In some ways,

Yeah,

In fact,

A lot of spirituality is like a paradox,

Philippe,

As you know,

It really is.

But this is just,

It's not this kind of do we exist,

Do we not exist?

We do exist.

We just don't exist the way we think.

We don't exist as a solid,

Independent,

Separate self that everything is happening to.

That's not how we exist.

We are a part of all of these causes and conditions.

So yes,

We are existing in appearance here,

And sentience here,

And feeling here,

And thinking here,

And hearing here,

And seeing here,

And talking here,

And tasting here,

And smelling here,

Right?

So it's all happening.

Just know one that it's happening to.

And notice the difference.

I mean,

See this for yourself,

But notice the difference as you go about your day without that burden of a me that everything is happening to.

Everything's all of a sudden much lighter.

You feel much better,

Freer,

Not because you had to tell yourself some affirmations that you're okay,

Because that's just the ego too,

Right?

It's just the,

It's not becoming anything.

It's not pretending to be something.

That's always the ego.

It's just being the activity,

Being reality,

Being reality.

And we start small with little things.

I mean,

We start with whatever's here,

But all these little mundane moments throughout the day where we're just rushing to the next thing,

Or we're just thinking about something,

And it's just kind of a little bit irritating.

Who's irritated?

Who's the owner of this thought,

Right?

We think it's that all our thoughts,

They're my thoughts.

We're all having the same thoughts.

We're all having the same thoughts.

They're not your thoughts.

Just thinking,

Happening,

Right?

So just the little things,

And we keep building up,

And building up,

And building up.

And you spend more and more time where life really is like it's just flowing,

And still thinking,

Still decisioning,

Happening.

You're not,

You don't turn into a big blob,

Right?

Things just still happening.

It's just all the suffering has been left behind.

That's it.

That's it.

Yeah,

My heart sutra,

You know,

Form is emptiness,

Emptiness is form.

Yeah.

Yeah,

And it's just habitual.

It is 95% of what we're thinking about today,

We were thinking about yesterday,

And thinking about the day before that,

And the day before that.

And what holds all that story together is the belief that there is a little me that's thinking all this.

And we think that somehow it's keeping us safe,

That somehow it's protecting us.

It's not.

It's not.

It's stopping us from living our lives.

It's preventing us from being here.

It's preventing us from being happy.

That's what it's doing.

No one's happy about this little me.

No one is happy about it.

Because its nature is always lack.

Its nature is always lack.

They did that to me and they shouldn't have.

I did this and I'm such an idiot.

And we just keep telling the same stories over and over and over and over.

And we wonder,

Well,

Why am I suffering?

Why am I suffering?

It's like when the story about Bodhidharma where a young student went to see him,

He was just so burdened by his thoughts.

And he was driving himself crazy.

And he goes to see Bodhidharma,

The great master.

And he says to Bodhidharma,

He's like,

Can you please pacify my mind?

It's causing me so many problems.

I can't stop thinking.

I'm suffering so much.

And Bodhidharma says,

Show me your mind.

And he kind of looks.

He goes,

I can't find it.

There you go.

I've pacified your mind.

There you go.

Right?

Because you can't find it.

This is another way,

Another one of these direct inquiries or kind of almost Cohen's if you would,

That are just,

They're not meant to have an intellectual answer,

Even though we're talking here because we need to be able to talk.

But in the moment of that direct inquiry,

It's a silencing of the mind.

It does like a little short circuiting on the ego,

Like you're kind of calling it out.

And it can't hold up to that.

And then there's a seeing,

Oh,

There was nothing really there.

It was just this habit.

It was this momentum.

It was just activity.

It was just activity.

It's just activity.

And so Jeremy,

You're saying,

You know,

So you don't claim thoughts as your own.

No,

No.

Right?

Not as a thinker,

Not as a thinker,

Because the moment there's a claiming in the claiming of it is when you start to become a solid,

Independent,

Separate entity.

We have to be so careful of that.

If a thought arises,

If a good,

If a thought arises for,

Let's say you have some clever idea that you come up with some clever thought,

And it comes up with,

You know,

Oh,

This thought arises some good thing to be able to do.

Like,

We imagine,

Oh,

That's my thought.

I'm so clever.

I'm so clever.

That was my thought.

But that thought came from trillions of other previous thoughts,

Trillions of other previous conditions,

Right?

It's not our thoughts.

Yes,

There is a unique experience,

Jeremy,

Philippa,

Meredith,

Each of us is having our own viewpoint here and sentience of activity,

Right?

But the thoughts that we're having are kind of as different thoughts,

Different ideas come in.

And,

Of course,

They get a little bit mixed around in your unique brain and DNA and all your unique experiences.

And then it kind of like,

Oh,

Pops up.

But it wasn't yours to claim.

It wasn't yours to claim.

Good idea comes,

Great.

I always think,

Yay,

Yay,

Thanks for the good idea.

I'm not saying thanks to anything in particular,

Other than all the trillions of causes and conditions.

Hey,

Thanks,

Great idea for the Dharma talk this week.

I don't know where it came from.

I don't know where it came from.

Right?

And but it kind of comes in,

In here.

And there's all of a sudden,

Like,

You know,

Sometimes ideas will pop up.

Yeah,

We'll go this direction.

Sometimes like,

No,

We'll go this direction.

No decision maker in here making this happen.

And the thing is,

The suffering happens when it's like,

Oh,

I've got to have a good thought.

I've got to have a good idea.

Right?

Because there's this belief that there's a me that's going to get something by the good idea.

Oh,

I'm going to get the praise.

I'm going to get the approval.

I'm going to get the acceptance.

Well,

Okay,

Now you're back on that hamster wheel again.

Because maybe,

Maybe the good idea kind of works its way up through there.

But then the claiming of it,

And oh,

Everyone's going to think I'm so smart.

Everyone's going to think I'm so clever.

And that lasts for a nanosecond.

And now I need more of it.

Now I need more praise.

Now I need more approval.

Instead of just,

Yeah,

There was a good idea.

Maybe you had some good idea for work,

Or something that you presented to the boss.

And they were like,

Wow,

Yeah,

That's a great idea.

Go forward with that.

And it's like,

Great,

A good idea was arising.

Those were the conditions.

Fantastic.

Don't claim it.

Because the moment you claim it,

Now the doing of whatever that idea was,

Is now like,

Oh,

This has got to go great.

This has got to turn out a particular way,

Because there's a me at the end of this,

That's going to get something from it.

But you're not in the moment,

At the end of the project,

Let's say everything goes great.

You had this great idea.

And then you're,

You're stressing through the whole thing,

Because there's a doer now.

And now there's a thinker behind the thoughts.

And there's a me behind of all of this.

Behind all this.

And then you get to the end,

And everything's great,

And everyone gives you a ton of approval.

Oh,

You're so great.

You're so great,

You know.

And it's like,

Oh,

That feels so good.

But that is just,

As the Buddha would say,

It's like trying to quench your thirst by drinking salt water.

Now I need more.

I want more praise.

It's not enough.

Oh,

What if one person criticizes me now?

Right?

It's just on this,

We get on this,

This,

This,

This hamster wheel,

By it through the claiming,

Because the claiming is I'm going to get something out of it.

I'm going to get something.

And it just adds to the illusion.

Yeah,

Philippa,

And I'm going to get back.

I know there's some other questions in the back here.

And I might,

Michelle,

I'll get yours after.

I'll just address Philippa's and go back,

Because it only lets me go back so far.

But it is,

It's just waves arising and dissolving on the surface of the ocean.

But the ocean is unchanged.

The awareness that all of this is happening,

And you know,

It's unchanged.

It's unchanged.

Now the feelings,

Because we have these sense doors,

Right?

We can feel,

We can think,

We can hear,

We can see,

We can taste,

We can smell,

Right?

So this is how we experience the world,

Right?

We have these gates that we experience the world through this.

So of course,

There's differences.

We touch hot water,

We touch cold water,

We touch something soft,

We touch something sharp,

We hear something pleasant,

We hear something unpleasant,

Right?

All of this is just happening.

But the suffering is,

It's happening to me.

And so some conditions are a little more pleasant than others,

But there's no grasping at it.

There's no,

Oh,

This is happening to me again.

I always,

You know,

This always happens to me,

Right?

We always say this always happens to me.

Why is this happening to me?

It's just,

This is what's happening.

And there's,

There's just no suffering around it.

No suffering.

So Michelle,

I'm going to come back to personal responsibility.

I just wanted to get back here because otherwise I,

I know that the,

The questions,

Again,

It only takes me back so far.

So,

Hi Lori,

First of all,

And Robert.

Oh,

And Sandy,

I think that's a beautiful practice.

When you used to get cut off,

That you would flip the driver off and that now you,

So you could maybe see that action of going and then,

Yeah,

Just placing your hand on your heart and on your breath.

And I think that's a wonderful practice.

And then once there's kind of a settling there,

Ask the question,

Who might have been upset by that?

Who would have claimed the upsetness?

And yeah,

Charlie,

To your point,

Yeah,

The more you give something your attention,

You know,

The more power,

Well,

In this case,

The more power it has over you when you're giving your attention to this,

When we're bringing our attention into the body and we're feeling what's here and kind of what you're saying in the next line,

When you're feeling,

When you're feeling the feelings,

So the emotions,

Our emotions are a story plus our feelings,

Right?

But at the bare,

Once the story,

If the story is not there,

It's just feelings,

Right?

So feeling when we're feeling the emotions in the body,

Right?

Giving our attention there.

In fact,

There's a softening,

Right?

The feelings no longer have this great power over us.

It's when we're giving our attention to our thoughts and the story of the emotion that where we give it more power.

Yeah.

Yes,

Ruth,

It is very wise to see that this feeling,

Hang on,

It just got pushed down again.

Just,

And I'm going to kind of just clarify between believing and seeing.

So I'm going to say it is wise to see that this feeling of me is arising and falling away just like our emotions,

Because it is the me,

The me that is arising is an illusion.

It's,

And it will still arise.

It will still arise.

It's because having kind of a reference for ourselves,

There is something here about some kind of referencing to ourselves,

Kind of at a base level from a conventional level that is helpful.

The problem is that we identify with it as being who we are,

And that's not helpful.

And it's not reality because it's simply the little me,

The thought created me only arises through thinking,

Right?

Thinking about myself.

What do I want?

What do I not want?

Right?

That's the crux of it.

And in every single way,

If I'm judging someone,

It's like,

I don't want them doing that over there.

If I'm comparing myself to someone because I want what they have,

I don't want what I have.

So it's,

You know,

In thinking in this way,

Not all thinking,

You know,

Is about the self.

Most of it is,

Unfortunately,

Because of the habit.

Most of it is.

But it arises through these particular types of thoughts.

We give all of our attention to it.

We believe that that's who I am,

Right?

We're more concerned with the thought created me and what I think everyone thinks of the thought created me,

What I think about the thought created me versus the reality me that's here right now living and breathing.

And that's perfectly safe and okay.

We keep giving our attention to that.

And so we tend to stay lost in it for quite a while because it starts to feel threatening and we start to feel stressed.

And so the more stressed we get,

The more we can't take our attention off of it,

The more thoughts start arising,

More,

You know,

Remembering just things in the past and all and I screwed that up 20 years ago and why did I do this and my life sucks and why did I make all these choices?

Oh,

You know,

I'm such a loser,

Right?

We get so lost in it.

And then the moment,

The moment we recognize,

Oh,

Here,

This is,

I'm doing it again.

Yeah,

I'm just,

I'm lost in the separate self.

I'm just lost in thinking maybe we're not even clear exactly what's going on because there's so many emotions going on,

Right?

That it's just,

Oh,

Unpleasant feelings have arisen.

Oh,

Unpleasant thoughts we hear now,

Unpleasant feelings.

And let me feel and breathe that.

And now that your attention is here with what's here,

The feelings,

The me has gone because it only arises through certain conditions and then goes away when those conditions change.

When you bring your attention into the body and you feel it and you investigate and thinking,

Are these thoughts useful?

You know,

Is it helpful for me to question every decision that's ever been made in my life?

Is it helpful for me to compare my life to someone else's?

Is there anything really long and wrong in my life or am I just kind of getting caught up in this trap again?

What's true here,

Right?

And so we can kind of bring ourselves,

You know,

We're kind of now looking at this more clearly,

Not caught up from the perspective of me the separate self,

Just,

Wow,

What was going on?

And there's a falling away of the me.

It only arises under specific conditions and then it goes away.

And the reason I say that mindfulness is not enough is because when we come in and we feel and we kind of,

We feel like,

Oh,

I feel better now,

But we still feel like it's got a hold,

But it could come back.

You know,

We still think there's a thing there.

There's a me that this is happening to.

Like so often we'll bargain with it,

Right?

We'll bargain to like,

Well,

I'll just take care of this now so we don't have to think about it anymore.

And so we have no control over it,

Right?

So it's controlling us.

Like we're bargaining,

You know,

Well,

I'll do this now and then we don't have to worry later.

How's that,

Right?

So,

And it's going to say,

Yeah,

Yeah,

Do it now,

You know,

And then pretending that we're going to feel better and we feel better for a moment.

And then it just comes back up again,

Because it's always going to keep coming back.

If you keep feeding it,

It's going to keep coming back.

And then it's like,

Okay,

Well,

You did that now,

But now I'm not happy about the way you did that.

I think you could have done that better.

You know,

Let's start judging ourselves now,

Right?

But it is,

It's just arising and passing away,

Just as everything else is,

Just as everything else is arising and passing away,

Right?

But we,

We identify with it.

That's the problem is that we think it's me.

We think that all of this,

So it's the,

The me,

The solid independent me that we think things are happening to and that we're not seeing that it's just this construct that comes into being and goes out of being.

And from a conventional sense,

I mean,

I am not of the,

Uh,

You know,

You guys have never heard me say,

Kill the ego,

Destroy the ego.

I think there's some usefulness there.

Just don't think that that's what you are.

And the Buddha also thought that there was a conventional usefulness to this from a conventional standpoint,

But on an absolute basis,

Seeing that you're not,

We're just saying we're not the ego,

But there's a helpful referencing there.

Just even that kind of,

Just that,

That general sense that there is,

There is something here.

There is something here.

It's helpful to remember there's a Meredith here,

The memories and experiences of Meredith.

There's a personality that's here,

Different likes and dislikes.

None of it that I'm doing,

By the way,

I didn't choose my likes and dislikes,

Right?

It's just,

This is kind of all,

You know,

Kind of,

There's a,

There's a lot of activity that's been happening here through trillions of different causes and conditions.

And so there's a,

Not a hanging on to any of it.

That's the difference.

We're not hanging on to anything.

I can't believe I like that.

I can't believe I dislike that.

I should not like that,

Right?

Where we,

We,

We beat ourselves up for things that we had nothing to do with.

We didn't have anything to do with any of it.

Me,

The separate self.

So it's just in a,

In seeing that everything here is an activity and the ego itself is an activity.

It's not who you are.

That is,

That is what enlightenment,

Awakening is,

Is to not,

Is to see what you are not,

Not to become something else,

Right?

And this is what we do.

The ego,

You know,

Where it just,

It loves spirituality and it dresses up and it loves to dress up in all the clothing and all the,

The practices.

And it loves to kind of laud it over everyone else as though it's becoming something more spiritual,

More evolved,

More conscious,

Right?

The ego is never becoming more conscious.

Never,

Never.

It's always unconscious,

Always unconscious.

But you reality,

Your reality isn't trying to become more real.

All we're trying to do is see that we have given our attention to something else.

The thought created me.

Believing behind the thoughts,

There's a thinker,

There's a me that all of this is happening to.

We are trying to keep seeing that that's who I think I am.

And that's not me.

And that's not me.

Because in the moment of seeing that,

And in direct inquiry,

When we're asking that question,

When it,

It really like the jig is up,

It pulls the rug out from under it and everything just opens up,

Right?

It's not like you do the skip over to becoming something else.

It's just,

Oh,

Seeing,

Hearing,

Touching,

Tasting,

Smelling,

Thinking,

No thinker.

Eating,

No eater.

Talking,

No talker.

It's not that constant,

Oh,

Did you say that right?

Did you say that wrong?

What do they think about you here?

What do they think about there?

What are you going to do later that's going to make you happy?

Oh,

You did that and that's making you unhappy.

It's just,

That's gone,

Right?

Even if there's a little chatter that still comes in,

There's just,

Oh,

Oh,

That's not me.

That's not me.

Don't get lost in it.

Because it's just arising and passing away.

So yes,

Ruth,

It is very,

So I want to get back to the point,

It's very wise to see this.

See this,

Not like how I'm seeing now.

Seeing,

Meaning seeing this directly,

Right?

It's not,

This isn't a belief.

Right now you believe the thought created me is real.

Not saying you personally,

Ruth,

But right now that's the belief.

So this isn't changing one belief for another belief.

It's seeing that this belief was,

Is not true.

It's,

It's,

It's checking the assumption there that's,

That's been made and saying,

Oh,

Oh,

That's not true.

It's like having,

Like,

Like,

Let's say there's a door in your house and I don't know when the realtor was selling you the house,

They're like,

But don't ever go in that door because there's something scary in that door.

And for some reason you still buy the house.

But every day you walk by that door and you go,

Oh,

I believe there's something scary behind there.

And so I'm not going to open that door.

And then one day you decide,

You know what,

I'm going to open that door.

And you open the door and you see,

Oh,

There was nothing there.

So the next time when you walk by and maybe there's a little bit of like,

Oh,

There's still nothing there.

Maybe it was just the time.

And you look again,

You're like,

Oh,

There's nothing there.

And then the next day again,

You're like,

Well,

Maybe it's off on Monday.

So let me check on Tuesday.

And you look again,

You're like,

Nothing there.

And every time you look and you go,

There's nothing there.

There was just a belief that there was.

So that's seeing,

That's seeing,

Right?

That's really seeing,

Realizing,

Wow,

There's nothing there.

And now there's no longer a compulsion to think that there's something there.

It's very similar.

Yeah.

So I hope that helps,

Ruth.

Great question,

Great question.

And I hope you don't mind because I liked the way you phrased that so I could kind of make that distinction.

So Terry,

So you're asking,

How do we assign responsibility to our thoughts,

Feelings,

And actions given non-self?

So we kind of have this idea that if there's not this solid,

Independent me,

I wouldn't know what is right and wrong.

I wouldn't know when I need to apologize.

I wouldn't know when it's time when I should maybe not say something.

We give so much,

We give so much credit to that this little thought created me is really what's keeping us in check.

But in fact,

It's usually what comes out of our mouth when we're so stressed,

When we're so irritated,

When we're feeling so threatened.

And so in the seeing that that's not me,

So there's no longer a grasping at a me,

What takes its place is wisdom and compassion.

By seeing that's not me,

There's wisdom.

And there's also compassion.

There's compassion for ourselves,

There's compassion for others of understanding just because we all know what it's like to suffer.

We all know,

There's not a kind of,

Oh,

I've got it,

And they don't.

There's genuine compassion as well,

Because genuine wisdom is born of real compassion,

And real compassion is born of real wisdom.

So the wisdom and the compassion,

Which often is down here because we're so lost in the grasping,

There's no wisdom and compassion to be found.

So they're inversely related to each other.

We let go a little bit of the grasping,

A little bit of wisdom coming up,

A little bit of mindfulness,

When it's like,

Oh,

Maybe I shouldn't say that,

So a little bit of mindfulness comes in,

Okay.

It wasn't this,

It wasn't the separate self,

The owner of the thoughts that we think is the owner of the thoughts that was preventing us from saying something unkind,

It was mindfulness,

Right,

That happened to arise in that moment,

Right?

And so there's a,

So you know,

Then it starts to become a little less grasping,

More wisdom,

More compassion,

And then no grasping,

Complete wisdom and compassion,

Understanding,

Everything is arising interdependent,

Interconnected,

You know,

Trillions of conditions coming together,

No one at the center of any of this,

No one,

No thing at the center of this.

Yes,

Each of us having a unique perspective,

Sentience,

But none of us are our own creation.

We didn't,

You know,

We are the result of our parents,

Of how our DNA came together from both of our parents,

Our biology,

Whether we have a mutation in our brain or not,

How we grew up,

What we ate as we grew up,

What type of people we hung around with,

What type of media we consumed,

What type of media we didn't consume,

What type of media we weren't around,

Right?

All of these trillions and trillions of things that are coming together,

Like sand shifting,

We used that analogy a few weeks back,

Right?

It's like sand shifting and shifting and kind of having this appearance because the sand and the wind is kind of shifting it all in a particular way,

Right?

But nothing solid,

Independent there.

And so the,

You know,

This kind of this idea,

But I've got to be responsible about my thoughts and my feelings and my actions.

I would argue that the thought created me is abusing that because it's always,

Because the thought created me only arises through what I want and what I don't want,

Desire and fear.

And so when this grasping mode,

This is where people,

Their morals go out the window,

Their values go out the window,

Because I've got to get that.

I've got to get,

Doesn't matter if I knock this person out of the way,

The last piece of cake's there,

I got to get it,

Right?

Or when people do,

You know,

Things really can escalate.

So it's not,

I would argue that most of our,

Yeah,

That our bad behavior is stemming from that.

And that in fact,

When wisdom and compassion have arisen and there's a seeing,

There's no separate independent me,

Right?

That now our thoughts and our feelings and our actions being guided by wisdom and compassion doesn't mean that we don't mess up and that we don't say the wrong thing.

And that we're just,

Because of the conditions,

We're feeling a little bit off,

We're feeling a little bit tired.

And maybe we,

You know,

It's just,

We got a little bit caught up in it for a moment.

And so some words come out that weren't particularly kind.

Yes,

That still happens.

And it's the wisdom and the compassion that comes in to say,

Yeah,

Don't be so hard on yourself.

You know,

You're human,

You make mistakes.

And then once you've been with yourself in a way that's kind and compassionate,

Not beating yourself up,

Then you can go and apologize to the person,

Not because I need you to make me feel better about my little thought created me,

But because I understand I hurt you.

And I'm sorry.

And I'm sorry for that.

And I hope you're okay.

So I hope that helps.

I hope that helps.

And just,

I'm not entirely,

Because you're asking,

You know,

Or do we just value actions over the other two?

You know,

The line,

You know,

Be careful of your thoughts,

Because your thoughts become your actions.

Be careful of your actions,

Because your actions become your character,

Become your destiny.

There's another one in there.

Be careful of your thoughts,

Because your thoughts become your,

Well,

Become your actions.

Be careful of your actions,

Because your actions become your destiny,

Become your character.

And so if we're operating out of very grasping type thoughts,

It's all about me,

What am I going to get?

And what do I not want to get?

Right?

Then our actions tend to mirror that.

And then that becomes our destiny,

That becomes our character.

But if our thoughts,

Again,

Our thoughts,

Still thinking,

Terry,

Still thinking,

No thinker.

So I'm not,

You know,

We're not seeing things through the lens of desire and fear.

Doesn't mean that you can't think to yourself,

You know,

I'd like a latte today,

That sounds nice.

Okay.

You won't have a meltdown if they're out of lattes.

You don't,

You go and you get the latte,

Right?

And you appreciate the nice taste of the latte,

But there's no one here like,

Oh,

And I need more,

I need more,

I should have this every day,

Maybe I could have another one.

Right?

It's like the endless,

If I just get the one piece of chocolate cake,

I'll be so happy,

But it didn't quite make me happy.

So maybe I should have a second piece of chocolate cake.

Maybe I should have a third piece of chocolate cake.

Never gets us there.

So our actions,

It's not that actions aren't still happening.

Activity is always happening.

And it's not that there's not a,

There's a much,

It's a much more pleasant feeling,

Right?

There's a pleasant,

There's a pleasantness because the grasping is the contraction and the worrying and the fretting and,

Oh my God,

I've done a million bad things in my life and I should just feel terrible about myself.

And,

You know,

99% of which I probably never did.

I'm just perceiving it in my head that way,

Because that's how it's always perceiving things.

And I'm just not getting ahead,

Right?

So in that contraction,

It just,

It feels so heavy.

It feels so painful.

It's like this dark cloud we hang,

We walk around with.

And in the seeing that there is no me that was doing any of these things,

Doesn't mean that we can't go and apologize,

Right?

Based on wisdom and compassion,

Yes,

Right?

Or even to feel some remorse about something,

But there's no beating ourselves up because that doesn't change anything.

It doesn't change anything.

So there's a lightness to life because it's just activity.

It's just movement.

Tiredness arising,

Okay,

No problem.

No one that's tired,

Right?

Irritation arising,

No problem because there's no one that's irritated.

And in that wisdom and saying like,

You know,

Maybe it's just time to pause for a few moments.

Yeah,

You've been doing a lot.

It's time to pause.

Yeah,

Okay.

I can do that.

I can do that.

I hope that helps,

Terry.

I hope that helps.

Okay,

Let me go down.

I think we're getting to your question,

Michelle.

Okay,

So,

And I might have kind of answered that already.

But I just want to make sure that we do give personal responsibility.

It's due because we know this is such a tough one for us.

And I think,

Again,

This is where we push back on this,

Ego pushing back,

Self-preservation mode,

Because it wants to take this massive leap to nihilism.

And so nothing matters anymore.

It's all just this great big illusion.

Nothing matters.

And on an absolute level,

We could,

I would agree with that.

But on a conventional level,

There's the wisdom and the compassion to understand that,

Yeah,

Our actions do have consequences.

They do have consequences.

And a lot of the time,

Again,

As I was saying to Jeremy,

I think our actions are,

You know,

Very much from that grasping standpoint.

So we're having to go and apologize a lot because of the actions that are coming from grasping.

And so in the lack of grasping,

You know,

There's a sense that with the wisdom and compassion,

There's a sense of understanding that there's consequences for our actions,

And you would never want to hurt another being.

Doesn't mean that you won't occasionally.

There's just no avoiding it.

Sometimes people are just,

You know,

Just collateral.

I hate to say it like that.

But sometimes,

You know,

Even you're rescuing a dog and someone's upset that you're doing that.

You can't make everyone happy.

And there's a wisdom in understanding that.

I can't make everyone happy.

Not everyone's going to appreciate my lifestyle,

And that's okay.

That's okay.

I mean,

As long as there's no ill will in my heart,

As long as there's,

You know,

The intention of kindness here,

Like,

Yeah,

You know,

But I can't get everyone to,

You know,

Not everyone's going to be happy with our actions.

And so there's wisdom in understanding cause and effect.

Karma.

Karma,

Which is really,

From a Buddhist perspective,

Is understanding that it's our intention that matters most.

It is our intention that matters most.

And so,

There tends to be the,

You know,

The actions that are taking place,

There is an understanding that,

Yes,

There's consequences for it,

And you're going to suffer or not from those consequences.

Meaning this sentient,

You know,

This sentient being here,

Yes,

I put my hand on the stove,

I'm going to suffer the consequences.

I'm not going to do that.

But this idea that each of us is responsible for our actions,

Is where so much hatred and anger,

And really,

I would say,

Just horrible actions come from,

Where a mob can go,

You know,

Even just,

I saw recently,

I shouldn't talk about,

I'm not allowed to talk about politics on here.

But where someone who doesn't agree with their opinions,

Someone gets killed,

And people are jumping up and down happy about it.

I mean,

I think there's such a,

You know,

Coming from that grasping mindset,

Thinking that,

Oh,

They're a horrible person,

And they deserve that.

And then we can go on the other side of it and go and see they deserve that.

It just keeps this whole cycle of suffering going.

If someone has different views and opinions than you,

It's simply because of their causes and conditions.

The views and opinions here are simply due to the causes and conditions here.

Nothing I did,

Just the causes and conditions that were arising.

And I think that the more that we see that,

The less hatred and anger we have for other people.

It doesn't mean that we hang out with people that are unkind to us.

It doesn't mean that we don't speak up to someone that's belittling us,

That,

You know,

We might decide there's something appropriate to say here.

But this idea where we're holding everyone responsible just creates a lot of hatred and anger and judgment and doesn't,

And in fact,

I think,

Exaggerates the behavior.

As we've talked about on here many times,

I think when you've been here,

Michelle,

Like how we punish people.

I mean,

People that were brought up in extreme poverty and,

You know,

Maybe they stole something.

They shouldn't have,

But they were starving,

Right?

And they stole something.

And then the next thing,

Their life is kind of,

They're just in and out of institutions the rest of their lives.

Like we're not rehabilitating anyone in this way that we feel this personal responsibility and so we need to make you pay.

It's not,

If we look at how we do that now,

It's not,

It's leading to more separation,

More distinction.

You're bad,

I'm good.

You shouldn't do that and I'm justified now in my hatred of you.

I think it just leads to more suffering,

More delusion.

So look for yourself and really reflect on the question.

Ask yourself about it,

Really thinking about it.

Yeah,

Alice,

That's a great,

That's a direct inquiry question.

Who wants to take this personally?

Who?

Yeah.

And so Ruth,

You read,

Oh,

The cave in the snow.

Okay.

I spent two hours with her in India.

Gosh,

This would have been 15,

16 years ago when she first set up her monastery,

Tenzin Palmo,

In India.

And I was staying in Gange McLeod and it was still pretty new and you could go on her website and schedule an interview with her.

And it was about two hours away,

Her monastery.

And I went there and had a two-hour meeting with her,

Just her and me.

It was just amazing.

She is amazing,

Tenzin Palmo.

Yeah.

She is really a just walks the walk,

Let me tell you.

Yeah.

Oh,

I like that,

Lori.

Don't be blown about by every wind.

Yeah.

Yeah,

Katie.

So the thought created me is also created by the causes and conditions that affect the way our brains work and therefore create thoughts like trauma responses.

How do you deal with the consequences of a trauma response created in childhood?

So you're absolutely right.

First of all,

The thought created me is also just causes and conditions.

And there's different theories on to how this sense of self became so outsized because it wasn't always like this.

That at some point there was some scarcity of resources and then all of a sudden this is mine and that's yours and don't come over here and now I need to get more and more.

That it just kind of became unleashed and we got this like supersized ego because a general sense of ourselves is not a bad thing.

This is why I don't,

Again,

I know it feels like I'm constantly putting the ego down,

But I'm not going to excuse it's bad behavior either.

But there is some usefulness to it there as well.

And particularly when things happen to us as a child,

It can at that point come in with some protective mechanisms to kind of help us cope with what's happening.

The challenge is that as we grow up,

Then as we become adults,

We keep those mechanisms in place when the situation is different and it can become problematic for us.

And so in those situations,

Then I would definitely say that that's where therapy is,

Is the right response for that.

I mean,

Still to be practicing meditation and mindfulness alongside of it because I think that helps integrate everything.

But I do strongly feel there is a place for therapy when we have deep traumas so that you really have someone there that really can take you into feeling what's here,

Being with what's here,

Because it might just be too much to cope with on your own.

And again,

I can't answer this for you,

But I'm just kind of giving you my thoughts on this.

So I think there is absolutely a place for a good therapist to help us deal with our trauma.

And I think it's,

I wouldn't even go if so for this talk today,

I wouldn't go to the no self part.

I wouldn't quite go there yet.

Just stay with the nurturing,

Staying with what's here.

And that's fine because if that's what's needed,

That's what's needed.

And then as you're able to work through what's happening and be able to find a way that the feelings of what happened or the patterns that have been happening are no longer overwhelming and that you can be with them and there's an understanding and there's a sense of not kind of needing to fight back this anymore.

But even there's just this sense of like,

Yeah,

It happened.

I understand what happened.

I've been able to care for myself.

I've been able to be kind.

I've been able to have compassion.

I've been able to maybe reparent.

There's a lot of,

I think a lot of great therapy on reparenting that if we didn't get the love and compassion and the kindness that we needed and the care as a child,

That these are things that we can do as an adult.

And I think it's important that we honor that and that we do come to that place with the right modalities and therapy being the right,

I would think is the best modality in this and using meditation and mindfulness alongside of it.

And then as you,

You know,

Again,

You kind of,

There's a point of where you're recognizing like it's no longer triggering the same types of reactions and responses.

And then you can start to question a little bit more about the no self because there is something to be said.

And I don't know if you were here earlier,

Katie,

Where sometimes we come to this path and this happens a lot where people come to a spiritual path because they don't really want to deal with their anxiety or their stress or their,

And I'm thinking like deep anxiety,

Their traumas.

And they just want to skip over the feeling to get to the no self part.

And it just doesn't work because you can't,

There's still this belief that there's something there that can't feel all this stuff.

And so it's just very important to honor that and to feel that.

And just to recognize where you are on the path,

Where you are is where you are.

And I'll just read your follow-up.

So how do you not beat yourself up about the mistakes made when raising children?

You feel like your trauma responses caused you to respond in anger toward your daughter.

So,

I mean,

I would say,

First of all,

There's a lot of awareness around this that you have.

And in order to not repeat the cycle is self-compassion,

Right?

Yeah.

You're reacting out of previous wounds and how your experience was growing up.

And the first place that's needed to have compassion so that you're not going back to your children through guilt and,

Oh,

I just feel like such a terrible parent and I need them to forgive me so I can feel better about myself,

That you're able to have self-compassion to be with yourself.

And again,

Working with a therapist with this,

You just said that you can say like,

Yeah,

That was not your best moment.

That was not a healthy response.

Yeah,

Let me breathe and feel that.

It's okay to feel this.

It's okay to feel the guilt.

It's okay to feel the guilt,

Which is just anger towards ourselves.

It's okay to feel the regret and just petting yourself saying,

Oh,

Okay.

Right?

It was situation,

Conditions came together,

All the previous conditions also in there,

Every previous condition having an effect on what's happening in this moment.

But now you're changing the response to it.

Now you're changing the response.

Instead of beating yourself up,

Which is still just continuing the same pattern,

You're changing and coming in with compassion and recognizing you're a human being that still deserves love and compassion and kindness and care.

No matter what we've done,

We're human beings.

We're human beings.

And compassion and kindness can go a long way to healing so that then when you go to apologize,

Again,

It's not from this place of,

Oh,

I can't believe I did that.

I'm such a terrible parent.

Please tell me that I'm okay.

You're not looking for your kids to make you feel better.

You come to them and you just say,

I'm so sorry.

There's no excuse.

We don't talk to the person we hurt about causes and conditions.

I'm so sorry for hurting you.

I'm so sorry.

And mommy's going to do her best to make sure that doesn't happen again.

So please know that I'm doing everything I can to make sure that this pattern doesn't keep repeating.

And by doing that,

That you're recognizing like,

Hey,

If this is starting to become a problem in life,

If these patterns are so reactive that it's the anger that I feel maybe because of how I was treated as an adult is now being expressed to my children.

I've got to do something to break this pattern.

And I would say that therapy,

I think,

Is a very,

Very wise and compassionate,

Compassionate for yourself,

Compassionate for your children way to approach this.

And there's many,

Many good,

You know,

There's a lot of good therapists in the world.

And I have a few that I recommend to people.

If you want to reach out to me directly,

I'm happy to.

I've noticed that Insight Timer is got a whole,

I think there's like 13,

000 therapists on there.

But there's a lot of really good therapists in the world that can help you with that,

And still be doing meditation and mindfulness alongside of it,

Right?

But a lot of self-compassion.

We don't heal through judging ourselves.

We don't heal through being angry towards ourselves.

That just perpetuates the same behavior.

So a lot of kindness,

A lot of self-compassion.

We talked about that last week.

And that talk is now up on Insight Timer,

Katie.

So,

And I'm sure there's thousands of great talks and meditations on self-compassion and in being with,

You know,

What it is that you're feeling.

But I am going to say again,

I think you should,

You might want to explore therapy with this as well.

So,

And Lori,

Thank you for the donation.

Thank you so much.

Yeah,

You're welcome,

Katie.

And know that we're also always here to help support you through this,

Because it's tough.

It's tough.

And I know I went,

You know,

I went to therapy,

Gosh,

It was over 30 years ago.

You know,

There was a lot of,

Just a lot of unhappiness,

A lot of being down on myself,

A lot of feeling unworthy.

And it wasn't that I was brought up in a,

Well,

Just my parents weren't really around very much.

And that really did seem to affect me a lot,

Right?

My sister Libby's on this call,

She's a couple years older than me,

But I was quite young.

And,

You know,

It really did affect my actions.

And so through therapy,

It really helped me to understand why I was doing things I was doing,

Why I kept repeating the same behaviors,

What it was I was trying to find.

And there was a sense of like,

Yeah,

Okay,

Kind of an understanding that helped kind of loosen some of the judgment,

Some of it,

I'll say some of it.

But it was really then,

It was right after therapy where I started meditating and practicing Buddhism that really kind of helped integrate everything that I was understanding into a way that I could truly like not look at myself with self-loathing any longer.

And just with compassion,

Like,

Yeah,

You're just the result of all your causes and conditions.

And all of that suffering,

And I've said this before,

It brought me on this path.

And I'm grateful for that,

Because maybe if the suffering wasn't so extreme,

I may not have done it.

And I may not have really gone so far as I've gone on this path and meaning kind of how I changed my whole lifestyle and everything.

And so,

You know,

It served its purpose,

But therapy was an important part.

It was an important part of that for me.

So yeah,

I would encourage that.

Yeah.

Oh,

And Pamela,

You're so sweet.

You're so sweet.

This is your therapy right now.

I'm so glad.

Yeah,

This is gentle therapy.

I think there is still some gentle therapy in these classes.

I mean,

I have to be careful.

I'm going to probably have to cut this out on the recording because I think there were some teachers that were giving a lot of therapeutic advice that weren't therapists on Insight Timer.

And so we got kind of a notice about that,

Kind of a blanket email a couple months ago.

And I try,

I'm never diagnosing.

Yeah,

They were diagnosing.

I'm never diagnosing anyone.

And I've always encouraged,

Like,

You know,

If something,

If our sense of self is to the point where it's causing disruptions in our lives and our relationships and how we're interacting,

If it's to that point,

Then yeah,

I find that therapy is a useful modality.

And like,

I think,

Ruth,

You're saying and Alice,

What you've been saying here as well,

Like somatic therapy,

I think is also just because it's really just getting you in touch with the body.

I think that's super,

Super helpful.

And so yeah,

It's a very,

It can be a very helpful part of this path.

But then,

But I feel like also,

Like,

Pamela,

Like you're saying,

A lot of us,

And it's like,

Okay,

It's not to the point where we're,

Where it's causing so many problems in our lives,

Really,

It's just causing problems,

You know,

The ego,

Then our sense of self causing problems for us.

Maybe little bits here and there in our relationships,

But it's not,

It's not so,

You know,

We're not just,

It's not so,

It's not so disruptive.

And so yeah,

I do find that this is as well,

Like what we're doing here is also just,

Is very therapeutic.

And that sense,

I find just,

I know,

For me,

It was like,

Kind of hearing these teachings,

And as you,

As you're kind of things are coming together,

And you're having insights,

Like,

There's just such a like,

Ah,

Oh,

My gosh,

It's not just me,

It's not just me,

Everyone's going through this,

Right,

To some degree or another different intensities,

Like that was just like mind blowing,

Like,

Oh,

It's not just me.

And it's not just,

You know,

Me,

That's how the ego frames that you're the only one that's doing this,

Everyone with an ego is doing this.

Everyone with an out of control ego is doing this,

That we're identifying with the ego.

And I found that very,

That very helpful.

And,

And then just as,

You know,

Continuing on and just really understanding how things are unfolding,

Like it just becomes clearer and clearer.

Wow,

Why would I hate myself?

Why would I,

Why would I beat myself up?

It makes no sense.

It would be like wanting to beat up the wind,

Like getting angry at the wind.

It would make no sense.

It makes no sense.

And so,

There's just this,

You know,

All of a sudden,

There's just such a tenderness and kindness with ourselves.

There's,

There's not,

You know,

Michelle and Jeremy,

To your points earlier,

Like,

Yeah,

If something happened,

And I messed up in some way,

And those were the conditions,

You know,

There's not a saying,

Well,

No one here,

No responsibility to take,

Because I'm,

We're not saying there's no one here.

We're saying there is no thing here.

No solid,

Independent,

Separate entity here.

Yes,

There's something here,

It's arising,

Different causes and conditions,

A process activity.

And in that thinking and processing and activity and reflection,

Yeah,

You know what,

Maybe that action wasn't,

Didn't come out the quiet way,

The way that I was intending it to.

Okay,

So let me,

If there's something to do,

I can go and apologize.

And if there's not,

It's just like,

Hey,

Wasn't,

I didn't hurt anyone.

I just had a moment of judging myself.

Oh,

A little self-compassion,

Sweetheart,

Yeah.

Okay,

Some kindness,

Some kindness.

So I hope that helps.

Oh,

How long,

So Michelle,

This is Michelle from Ohio,

I think.

It usually,

I think by Thursday,

This should be up on Insight Timer,

Thursday.

I'll try and get it up a little quicker for you.

So JB,

So what are my personal thoughts on medication for anxiety,

Trauma,

Depression?

You mentioned that the spiritual path can be a shortcut that people unsuccessfully try to take,

So they don't have to deal with the feelings.

Then could medication be a similar thing in your mind,

Or different,

And could be a useful tool?

You're struggling,

And I'm contemplating the right path,

No judgments whatsoever.

And I'll make this as a very personal broad thought,

Not a recommendation.

I think that medications can be very helpful when the anxiety,

When the trauma,

And the depression is getting in the way of life.

My personal take is that,

Yes,

I think they can be useful.

I also took antidepressants and anti-anxiety meds 30 years ago,

And they were helpful at that time.

So yeah,

I think they can be very helpful.

I think they should not be a long-term solution.

I think they should be a short-term solution to help us be able to cope with what's happening,

To then take the appropriate responses to understanding what's happening.

So again,

That would probably be in those situations,

Of course,

To get the medication,

You have to see a psychiatrist.

At least in the States,

You have to see a psychiatrist.

And then to be working either with a psychiatrist or with a psychologist on that anxiety and that trauma and that depression,

So that there's a point to where you're then able to get off of the meds because the work is kind of helping you.

You're no longer,

You've been able to do enough work to understand what's going on,

To feel a little bit more compassion for yourself,

A little bit more understanding.

And then the meds can slowly be taken off,

Again,

Under the supervision of a doctor.

I went off the Paxil I was taking.

I'd only taken it for a few years,

And then I went off it on my own.

I didn't know you should not do that,

And not cold turkey.

That was horrible.

So,

You know,

Just to make sure that these,

I think there's tools available for us,

And we should use those tools.

We should use those tools.

We shouldn't have any shame in using those tools.

But we shouldn't also be thinking that those are long-term solutions,

Because they're not long-term solutions.

They're short-term solutions.

So,

Yeah,

Those are my general thoughts on that JB.

So I hope that helps you and you kind of figuring out,

You know,

What's right for you on that path.

And again,

And as I say,

You know,

To JB,

And to,

You know,

To Katie,

And to Lori,

And Alice,

And Ruth,

And Pamela,

And Michelle,

Like everyone here,

Like,

There is so much benefit in community.

I mean,

There is so much,

And this is,

I do feel like even though we've been doing this online,

And for a few years now,

But I feel like I know you guys,

And Alice,

And Philippa,

You and I talk offline,

And I offer that to anyone to always,

If you want to send me a WhatsApp,

I'm happy to answer any questions.

I'll send you a voice clip back.

As you guys know,

Sometimes they can be a little long,

But I am really,

It's so important that we feel we have resources that we can go to for help.

And just coming here,

And just knowing,

I hope that you know that yeah,

You can ask anything,

I'll give you my best advice.

And,

And you can see how things fall.

But just I hope you also know just from the community as,

As Katie,

I saw Alice,

You know,

Was jumping in and Philippa,

You'll jump in and others,

You know,

You'll jump in with answers,

And really feeling and,

And,

And,

And like savoring that sense of like,

That people are here for you,

That people are supporting you,

And people are care,

Right?

Because every single one of us that's here,

We have all suffered.

We all know what it's like.

And yes,

I mean,

Different degrees are different,

Maybe slightly different situations.

But,

You know,

We know what that's like.

And it's so painful.

And it's,

And it's,

It's worse.

It's the worst one,

We're experiencing it on our own.

And so I really do find that just knowing,

You know,

Community that we've got people here.

I mean,

Yeah,

It's,

It's,

It's,

It's,

It's really important to know that you're not doing this alone.

You're never alone.

You're never alone.

It's always,

You know,

This community here,

Tons of live communities on Insight Timer.

And you know,

We're just all here to help each other.

Okay,

So I think we're going to come close to Oh,

Alice,

Thank you for the donation.

Thank you.

Thank you.

So and David,

I just read your comment here.

But yeah,

You took meds when you needed them to exist.

But now meditation,

I think you mean medication free,

And have a strong spiritual practice at the time came when you need them again,

You'd go back.

Yeah.

Yeah,

I think we don't want to deny these tools that we have that are available to us.

You know,

But they're,

They're tools,

You know,

They're tools,

And they're,

And they can really help us in that short term.

So thank you for sharing that,

David,

Too,

Because I think that was important that you added in.

If the situation arose,

And you needed them again,

Like,

Yeah,

You would do that.

You would do that.

Yeah,

Alice,

Thank you for also just adding that as well.

That's really important reminder.

It just takes time.

It takes time,

Radical self compassion,

And just lots of patience with ourselves.

Yeah,

Lots of,

You know,

We kind of so want to get to the other side of healing.

But in fact,

You know,

The compassion is here in the healing,

Right?

The care and the kindness is in the healing.

We always think,

I've got to get over this,

I've got to get to something better.

But what's more tender,

And more real than being with our pain and our suffering?

Right?

I mean,

It's just such a,

An intimate,

Tender,

Caring moment.

And the compassion just,

You know,

We can be sitting on our own,

Just soothing ourselves,

Or our fears,

Our worries,

Our doubt,

Or just that inner critic.

And in that moment,

Like in that moment of compassion,

Of self compassion,

Like,

What more do we want?

Right?

And it does open us up in that moment,

And it's freeing in that moment.

And it's really good to savor those moments as well,

To appreciate them,

Because,

You know,

It does on a relative level,

It takes time.

But in each moment that we're here with what's happening,

That we're really here with our feelings,

With our doubts,

And our worries,

And our fears,

Like,

That's just,

You know,

That's freedom in this moment,

Being here with what's here.

That is the ego,

Alice.

Yeah,

I'll be okay when I get on the other side of this path.

So again,

It's always like,

Who is going to be okay on the other side?

There's something here,

There's hurting here.

And I do think we have this tendency to want to rush through our pain to try and get to something better.

And,

And we're not rushing anywhere,

We're not getting anywhere any faster.

It's slower,

Slower,

Right?

And it's not in somewhere to get,

It's to be with what's here,

To be with what's here,

To be open to our vulnerabilities,

You know,

To our,

Again,

Our fears,

Our doubts,

Our feelings of unworthiness,

In being with what's here,

That's not ego,

Right?

That's compassion,

That's wisdom,

That's kindness,

That's care,

In being with what's here.

And just to notice that again,

Like,

Oh,

Okay,

Well,

Now I've got to get up.

Okay.

Just to keep being with what's here as best you can.

Yeah.

And we're going to talk next week again about that ego and enlightenment,

Ego rushing to enlightenment.

Yeah,

David,

That was a good mistake.

I liked it.

But certainly not,

Yeah,

Medication.

And I just think there was one other thing,

Amy,

I just wanted to,

Yeah,

The eight limbs of yoga are a great tool as well.

I think Patanjali,

Yeah.

Wonderful,

Wonderful book.

Not a big,

Just a small book.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

Oh,

Thanks,

Michelle.

And you are a part of this wonderful community.

So,

And JB,

Thanks.

Yeah.

Thanks,

Ruth.

Yeah.

I mean,

Really is just,

This is a beautiful community here.

And I thank you guys for coming each Sunday and sharing and being open and being vulnerable and allowing us all to walk this together,

To be,

You know,

That we're sharing this moment together.

And that's a beautiful thing.

It's a very beautiful thing.

So,

And for you,

Michelle,

I will try and get the talk up a bit sooner.

And for all of you,

I'll try and get the talk up soon.

And,

Yeah,

So let's go ahead and we'll come to an end here.

And thank you,

Alice and Lori,

Again,

Thank you for the donations.

Thank you for all the beautiful hearts.

I love the hearts.

And,

Oh,

Thank you.

Oh,

Michelle,

What a kind thing to say.

Thank you.

That's such a sweet thing to say.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Yeah,

I do feel like you guys are all my friends.

And,

And it's just,

Again,

It's a very special community.

It's a very special way to come together,

To spend our time together on a Sunday afternoon.

So,

Okay,

So lots of love and gratitude to all of you.

And again,

Anyone,

Feel free to reach out directly if you have any questions and you need something offline.

I'm always happy to send you something back.

Just know you're not alone.

Know you're not alone.

And also,

Just to remember to make sure that we're really using the practices in the way that they were intended,

That we're not trying to skip over any steps,

But that we're also going beyond the mindfulness of our feelings.

And we're really questioning who is it that's claiming,

You know,

The,

Claiming the thoughts,

Claiming the anger,

Claiming the disappointment.

It's,

It's important that we get to the root cause here,

That we see that for ourselves,

That we see it for ourselves.

Okay,

So thanks,

You guys.

Thank you,

Alice.

Thanks,

JB.

Thank you.

Have a wonderful rest of your Sunday,

And we'll see you next week.