I Am That - Session 38 - Chapter 15 - The Gnyani - Part 4

Last time we stopped on page 43.

There are lots of errors on this page.

So I will read one sentence in Marathi,

One in English.

One in Marathi,

One in English.

Please keep your notebook and pen with you.

You will have to scratch out full sentences because there are mistakes there.

So we stopped on page 43.

We have to start with the second question on that page where he says another question.

I'll start with reading in Marathi.

Sadhak.

Anakhi ek prashna.

Vyakti aahe.

Vyaktila jaan nara vyakt aahe.

Sakshi aahe.

Vyakt and Sakshi ekach aahet ki tya bhinna avastha aahet.

There is the person.

There is the knower of the person.

The Marathi word for knower is Vyakt.

There is the witness.

The Marathi word for witness is Sakshi.

Are the knower and the witness the same or are they separate states?

Is this very clear?

Body-mind is the person.

Then is the witness or knower.

Body-mind is Vyakti.

The knower is Vyakt.

Sakshi is witness.

So now this questioner is confused.

Are Sakshi and Vyakt are the witness and the knower separate entities or one and the same?

Is the question clear for everybody?

Now the answer translated by whoever translated this is wrong.

Maharaj's answer in the Marathi book.

I'll read out that first.

Vyakt and Sakshi ekach astath.

Means the knower and the witness are one and the same.

This is your experience?

Yes?

Now the person who has translated or edited this book didn't know or maybe he has he had put his notes down.

The knower and the witness are two or one.

He has probably been making his notes and he forgot to edit this properly.

Now the next part of that paragraph is his own understanding.

Yeah it's not a proper translation again.

So I'll read Marathi first.

Vyakt and Sakshi ekach astath.

Vyakt ha Vyakti peksha vegda ahe.

The knower is separate from the person.

Ase zanlya var sarvocha swaroop manje avyakta zanmu lagte.

By knowing this truth the supreme true self means the unmanifest is known.

You can write it down I'll repeat it.

Vyakt ha Vyakti peksha vegda ahe.

The knower is called the Vyakt.

The person is called the Vyakti.

So he's saying the knower is separate from the person.

Vyakt ha Vyakti peksha vegda ahe.

Ase zanlya var by knowing this or by recognizing this truth.

Sarvocha swaroop the supreme true self.

Manje avyakta means the unmanifest.

Zanmu lagte is known.

The knower is separate from the person.

By knowing this truth the supreme true self means the unmanifest is known.

Clear?

Yes the moment you recognize oh I am NOT this reflection or I am NOT this image that I think is me then I go beyond I look at the I and I notice even that I dissolves when the I dissolves what does it dissolve into the unmanifest formless nothingness yes oh then you recognize the unmanifest you recognize the nothingness that will happen only when you recognize that I am NOT this person I am the knower of this person.

Vyakt ha Vyakti peksha vegda ahe.

Very clear?

That first line is clear.

I'll complete the Marathi paragraph then we'll go to the English.

Zaniv cha prakash poornapadne prakashu lagla ki tyacha ugam swataj prakat hoto.

Zaniv the consciousness.

Zaniv itsa prakash poornapadne prakashu lagla.

When the light of consciousness is stoked completely you know how you stoke a light you stoke a flame to to start a fire yeah first there are just sparks and it's not coming on and then you really keep stoking it stoking it and then then the bonfire catches fire and then it becomes full right so that's exactly what is being explained here Zaniv itsa prakash poornapadne prakashu lagla.

When the light of consciousness is stoked completely successfully poornapadne completely ki tyacha ugam swataj prakat hoto.

Its source is then revealed.

It's just a way using a metaphor to describe something yeah so the moment you recognize this light of consciousness that I am the knower yes I am the one that is conscious of this body yeah zaniv means in Hindi jo jaanta hai the one that knows the one that is conscious of something else yeah so zaniv zaniv itsa prakash prakashu lagla.

The moment you hold on to that and you drop thinking I am this body mind when this is completely stoked then automatically you are again and again thrown into that unmanifest no thingness so the witness consciousness will automatically take you to primordial consciousness you don't have to do anything after that you have to only recognize I am the witness or I am the knower I am NOT this person called the body mind just one little stoke of light one little spark you have to start in the bonfire and then the entire fire will catch on its own but that first spark that first successful spark is required do you see it then the shuttling stops where you consider yourself as the body mind now you're very clear and the knower of this body mind and this awareness this entire awareness in which this body mind appears this world appears that mirror is there that computer it on the computer screen all these people all this world is in me the awareness so this understanding happens automatically first thing is what recognizing and the knower I am NOT the body mind so that paragraph ends there in Marathi I'll read in the English now you made a mistake that the knower and the witness are two or one that is wrong the knower and the witness are one and the same please edit that and then he says when the knower is seen as separate from the known the witness stands alone yeah then you think I am this body mind which is the knower of the known which is this world yeah then the witness is standing alone basically you do not consider yourself to be the witness the next line is when the known and the knower are seen as one the witness becomes one with them means when you don't see any more difference between the body mind and the world the knower and the known this becomes one then the witness also becomes one with them in this his understanding is that this body mind is the knower and this world is the known and the witness is standing alone but there is no witness only because you're considering yourself to be this body mind so the next question is Gnani manje kon?

Vyakta ki avyakta?

Who is the Gnani?

The manifest or the unmanifest?

That is the real translation Maharaj says Gnani ha avyakta asun vyakta hi asto translation the Gnani being unmanifest is also manifest the person who has translated it it has translated it as the Gnani is the supreme and also the witness it's not exactly what Maharaj said toh astitva ane shuddha jani don hi asto he is both existence and shuddha jani primordial awareness let's see what he has translated this as he is both being and awareness being is a little confusing but what he means is the sat aspect the existence aspect yeah because I comes first from I the world is projected so the sat aspect is that projection sat in sat chit anand sat is the existence aspect yes I am sat chit anand from I the existence manifests very clear yet I am that primordial awareness the nothingness the stillness the emptiness in which there is nothing so I am both nothing and everything very clear yeah so I'll read that again toh astitva ane shuddha jani don hi asto he is both pure existence and primordial awareness jani vicha sambandhane toh shuddha jani asto from the point of view of the witness consciousness he is primordial awareness vishwa cha sambandhane toh shuddha astitva asto from the point of view of this projected world he is pure existence is this clear I comes first and then I projects the world so I am pure existence itself and that is why I can project the world so from the perspective of this world from the perspective of this universe I am pure existence yes from the perspective of the witness consciousness I am primordial awareness witness consciousness is the chit aspect do you remember this I've explained this to you before yeah the pure existence which is projecting the world is the sath aspect the sath and the chit are both me I am satchitanand from me sath and chit happen sath is pure existence pure existence with reference to the world and I am primordial awareness which with respect to witness consciousness that which is witnessing this entire world chit is the conscious aspect of me sath is the existence aspect of me chit is the subject aspect of me sath is the object aspect of me I am both the subject and the object everything is me yeah now I'll read the English in relation to consciousness he is awareness in relation to the universe he is pure being next question aani vyakti baddal kai?

Pratham kai aste?

Vyakti ki vyakta?

Again vyakti means person vyakta means knower so the questioner in English is saying and what about the person what comes first the person or the knower this is correct Maharaj vyakti agdi lahan aste?

Vaastavik ti sammishra aste?

Let's go to English the person is a very small thing actually it is a composite composite means it's a mixture of things yeah the person or this personality is a very small thing compared to the truth the truth of the primordial awareness the pure consciousness compared to this supreme truth the person is a very small thing what are you lost in yeah Maharaj is shaking up the sadhak wake up what are you lost in the person is a very small thing now he'll explain it beautifully ti swathahun astitvath aste ase manta yeth nahi?

It cannot be said to exist by itself the translation is correct till here jaanli geli nahi tarti nastets that's been translated as unperceived it is just not there what he wants to say is when you don't understand when you don't know what is the person or the personality yeah when you are not conscious of the person it is not there for example looked at the reflection in the mirror then you recognize oh this is the person this is who I am I have an image of myself and I believe this image to be me this is the way ikta looks this is the way ikta speaks this is the way ikta dresses I have an image in my mind and I think this image is who I am I don't look at this I cannot see this most of the times and I can only see myself neck down do you even realize this but in your mind you don't see yourself neck down you see complete do you do you recognize what I'm saying you see yourself as the person in the mirror you don't see yourself neck down otherwise you would think of yourself as headless but it's not true that's not how you think about yourself when you think about yourself and Maheshwari is thinking about Maheshwari she has the complete picture and the face is there the head is there when Raghu is thinking about Raghu,

Raghu's head is there in that image do you see what I'm saying you do not consider yourself as this you consider yourself as the reflection in the mirror so far is clear yes that is the person this is not the person other this person would be headless that is the person that is the personality so then I have a namarupa a name and form for this personality and I have certain thoughts about how this personality is my concepts my ideas my conditioning my beliefs what I think is right what I think is wrong my cravings my aversions it's a big web of infinite thoughts that make up this person do you see this that is called the vyakti now this vyakti is a very small thing Maharaj is saying you are not always conscious of this vyakti of this person you're not all the time looking at yourself in the mirror or thinking about this image yes so what he means is unperceived when you're not perceiving it it is not there when you are not thinking consciously about I Avanti I'm like this Avanti is not there only when I think about myself when Avanti thinks about herself as the person suddenly Avanti the person is very important do you see what he's trying to convey to you yeah there's a very subtle things it's very hard to convey with words first of all I didn't know that oh I consider that reflection in the mirror as ekta I don't consider headless thing as ekta and then it's not just the namarupa there are lots of thoughts in it images ideas my concepts that I have put in and I give it so much importance and only when I am aware of this person that I have created in my mind that time I'm perceiving it that time it is there so many times I'm not thinking about it not perceiving it it's not there the personality is not there you see what what is he saying he's saying that the person is a myth it's an idea it's not real it's there only when you're thinking about it when you're not thinking about it when your focus is not on it it's not there very clear now I'll read the Marathi again Vyakti agdi lahan aste.

Vaastavik ti sammishra aste.

Sammishra mixture of lot of things.

Namarupa,

Thoughts,

Ideas,

Concepts,

Cravings all sammishra mixture Ti swatahun astitvaat aste.

Ase manta yet nahi.

You cannot say that the person exists by itself independently.

Jaanli geli nahi tarthi nastets.

If it is not known it isn't there means if it is not perceived if it is not thought of it's not there.

If it is not focused on it is not there.

Ti keval mana chi chhaya.

Smriti chi goda beris aste.

It is only the reflection in the mind and a goda beris of memories.

Let's see how he's translated.

It is but the shadow of the mind that is also beautiful translation reflection of the mind or shadow of the mind and the sum total of all memories correct when you looked at yourself in the mirror I told you look at the lines of the face look at the face look at the hair wasn't all that memory you came up with oh I didn't have this wrinkle oh I didn't have this gray hair didn't you have that dramatic thought come up what is that that is nothing but memory or oh I don't have hair anymore it's all fallen off memory I had a lot of hair before it's all gone all memory yeah so it is the sum total of memories that's all personality or the person or vyakti really is you the cavern mana chi chhaya smriti chi goda beris asti artha avyakta pratham the unmanifest is first the unmanifest comes first the nothingness is first then comes the I and then the I attaches to a zillion thoughts and the thought projects the shadow the reflection when you open your eyes and you are in the world it is nothing but a reflection of the collection of all the thoughts by the I I was not happy just saying I it wanted to be this or that yes the I am this I am that all this reflects in the mind and that projects as my waking world or as my dream world both are projections of the I there is no difference between the waking world and the dream world at all it's the same cravings and aversions that are there in the waking world same are projected in the dream world yeah draw a parallel in your own direct experience and see so unmanifest first then the manifest subtle form and then the manifest gross form so unmanifest first first nothingness in that came the subtle I and from the I came I am this or I am that I want this I don't want that I like this I like that the whole world is manifested so the gross is manifested from the subtle I the subtle I is manifested from the nothingness the unmanifest very clear I'll read that again avyakta pratham how is that translated there that is not there in English so that is missing okay it's supposed to be right after some total of memories after that you add the unmanifest comes first avyakta pratham the paragraph is not over okay after avyakta pratham in Marathi it is tyache astitva mana chya arshad jandle manje te pratibimbit hote pure being is reflected in the mirror of the mind as knowing I'll translate directly from Marathi he said avyakta pratham so he's talking about the unmanifest now so tyache astitva mana chya arshad jandle manje te pratibimbit hote when the unmanifest is reflected in the mind mind is the mirror yes and the unmanifest or the primordial awareness when it looks into the mirror of the mind it looks at its reflection and what is it known as this body-mind in this world te jandle jaate te smriti ani savai yaar aadhar lelya vyakti cha aakaar gheete very nice so beautiful he's saying the moment the unmanifest is reflected in the mirror of the mind it is known and the moment it is known it takes the naam roop of the vyakti I'll read that again avyakta pratham tyache astitva mana chya arshad jandle manje te pratibimbit hote je jandle jaate te smriti ani savai yaar aadhar lelya vyakti cha aakaar gheete the unmanifest looks into the mirror of the mind sees its reflection the moment its reflection is known it takes the form of a vyakti a person based on habits and memory let's see what is it in English what is known takes the shape of a person based on memory and habit it is but a shadow or projection of the knower onto the screen of the mind similar translation maybe the question is for the very first time when the unmanifest sees it sees itself in the mind where does the mind I I is born that's what I did in the self-exploration there is nothingness in nothingness you just see that wave of I which says I am and then that has thoughts and that automatically thought is projected as I in this world is this part very clear mirror of the mind is again another analogy but see it in your direct experience forget everything else just see how you project a dream in the night your own experience yes it is nothing but a seed form thought somewhere something very simple like I want to eat chocolate today and full day you didn't get a chance to get out of the house and go purchase your chocolate you kept just thinking about your favorite chocolate whatever that chocolate is double dark chocolate whatever strawberry chocolate flavored whatever and you kept thinking about it kept thinking I want to go eat it I want to go eat it I want to go eat it and you couldn't get time you were just too busy all day seed it's a seed a very strong craving seed you go to sleep in the night with this seed and in your dream what happens first there is the sense of I am that projects a dream where you are sitting and eating that chocolate chocolate was projected the person eating the chocolate was projected from that I that wanted to experience that taste that I did not get a chance to experience the taste in the waking dream so it did it in the night in the sleeping dream I'm just throwing out a random example this happens to all of us some craving on a version manifests in the dream in the night yes so it is my own experience nobody from outside has to convince me about this yes I see the same thing oh I wanted it so first there is the I then there is a craving I want chocolate the God aspect the creative first is the conscious function then is the creative function and then is the manifestation of that dream in which I ate the chocolate conscious function creative function manifestation function how did it come from from where did it come what is the source the source is the unmanifest nothingness because after that same dream state I go back and I rest into that unmanifest and now I become so aware I can see moment to moment the I dissolves it dissolves into nothingness again it comes up again and dissolves again it comes up so I know I am very well aware of this nothingness that I am so it's the unmanifest looking into the mirror of the mind politically think it's a song mirror of the mind is I and that I says I want this I don't want this I like this I don't like this make a song a poem in your own head so you become very clear about what Maharaj is saying the same kind of explanation is there in many scriptures so it's very important for you to understand why so many scriptures call it the mirror the mind is a mirror after this there is only one error this so I'll go back to English after this okay just read one or two sentences till the error is there arsa aahe pratibimb aahe pan surya kuthe aahe sadhak is asking this question the mirror is there the reflection is there but where is the Sun so Maharaj says avyakta hath surya the unmanifest is the Sun what is the translation supreme is the Sun not bad but he's not giving you the exact word the unmanifest is the Sun yeah after this there are no errors so just like you got confused with the whole mirror example he also got confused what mirror where is the Sun so he says the unmanifest itself is the Sun so the questioner says it must be conscious yeah he's talking about the unmanifest the unmanifest must be conscious so Maharaj says it is neither conscious nor unconscious don't think of it in terms of consciousness or unconsciousness it is the life which contains both and is beyond both you usually think only one aspect the good aspect the bad aspect you want to keep out of it no both good and bad are part of it right and wrong happy and sad pleasant and unpleasant all the opposites fall into the truth the unmanifest the highest truth the supreme truth has both if you understand this that the supreme truth will have both both the opposites then you have to understand that is going to have both consciousness and unconsciousness in it and it's beyond both very clear yeah basic understanding should be clear that the opposites cannot be outside it if evil is outside it that means the evil has the the the option to attack Brahman no there is nothing outside Brahman there cannot be good bad right wrong pleasant unpleasant conscious and unconscious all opposites are within it are of it it is even beyond both it is the life which contains both and is beyond both questioner says life is so intelligent how can it be unconscious Maharaj says you talk of the unconscious when there is a lapse in memory right what do I think I am this body-mind when I'm remember everything I have the memory of everything I can see everything I'm conscious the moment there's a lapse in my memory I say I'm unconscious why I was considering considering myself as body-mind I forgot the truth that I am the manifest itself I am primordial awareness I am the supreme truth I am Brahman so when I considered myself at the relative level my understanding was when there is no memory there is no consciousness but that was my very finite incorrect understanding now I have graduated to a higher level you talk of the unconscious when there is a lapse in memory in reality there is only consciousness Brahman Satyam there is only consciousness all life is conscious and all consciousness alive everything is Brahman everything is pure consciousness and everything is alive so questioner gets even more confused even stones so Maharaj says even stones are conscious and alive he is not totally stunned because he's again considering himself as I am the body-mind in this world that believes in science and science says what inside this body there is a smaller mind inside the mind there is consciousness so consciousness is one dot inside the mind which is inside the body a stone doesn't have a mind forget about consciousness far far away for the stone yeah so he's gone back to his relative position as body and mind so the questioner says the worry with me is that I am prone to denying existence to what I cannot imagine yeah means I don't accept that which you know I cannot even imagine so Maharaj says you would be wiser to deny the existence of what you imagine if you imagine something it's definitely wrong it is the imagined that is unreal highlight that it is the imagined that is unreal is all imaginable unreal Maharaj says imagination based on memories is unreal the future is not entirely unreal questioner says which part of the future is real and which is not so Maharaj says the unexpected and unpredictable is real the unexpected and unpredictable don't say oh I don't know if I'm I should expect that I'm going to make money tomorrow in the stock market or lose money no no no you already have an expectation you can already predict the market yeah don't say I don't know if my spouse will be good to me tomorrow or bad to me no no you can predict it you already have an expectation yeah become very clear there is nothing in this material world or spiritual world of yours which you cannot expect or cannot predict so what does that leave you with the unmanifest it's unpredictable you cannot expect enlightenment you cannot predict only that is real that is a speciality of the gyani it takes you finally from Dwaitam all the way to Advaita he sows a seed whether it sprouts or not is none of his business he sows the seed of Advaita in you again and again that completes chapter 15