Reactive Angry Buddhist And ACOA Finds Her Voice

1:28:17

1:28:17

Reactive Angry Buddhist And ACOA Finds Her Voice

by Lisa A. Romano

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Jeanne is the adult child of an alcoholic, who has tried just about every modality to fill the hole in her heart, including Buddhism, and although she found golden nuggets, it was not until she could hear the voice of her inner child that she could finally feel free of the wounds of the past.

Meet your Teacher

New York, NY, USA

Meet your Teacher

New York, NY, USA

Transcript

I know that your work is groundbreaking because I've been trying since 1985 to fix myself. Wow. And I, I just kept hitting walls and it wasn't really until 2018, 2018 when I found you on, On YouTube. If you've been on our YouTube channel, Nia, I know I look a little also the side with the park. Yeah. You see me oh no no. Right? For me, I think I really have thought about this. It was like your voice. My throat chakra, I think, Is blocked. Like, I'm a visual artist. I'm a painter. So, Like, My way to communicate with my background and all the problems that I came from was to paint and to say it visually, Because for some reason I couldn't have a voice. And so for me, Because you, Maybe it's because you grew up in Queens. And you needed to be loud because I grew up in a very quiet town and I didn't need to be loud. But for some reason, Your voice and your words opened it for me. And I mean, Everyone's different, But for me, It really resonated. And it was finally like, I was finally hearing someone say all the things that I needed to hear someone say. And so that, For me, Was the game changer. And because I still have, I mean, I also write, Like you, I write and I paint, But for some reason I can't get it through my voice. And when I listen to your videos, Which I do like five times a day, Still like three years, Five, No, At least five. And then the meditations, At least another five things. Like, So basically you're on every time I'm not working or not doing something, I'm listening to you. And it's because, And I listened to some things that you say on your YouTube and I'm like, Oh, I could never say that. I guess I can't. It's not in me. Like, But I want to say that, But I can't do it. And so you, I don't know what it is. Like, Maybe it's because I'm a middle child and you're the oldest child. Like, I don't, Like, I don't know what it is, But like, For some reason it's like, Your words are like the catalyst and it triggers my healing. And I'm like, Why can't I say that? Like, I know how to, I know what that, I know what that is. I know what that feels like, But I can't, It's like, I'm blocked. And you're creating this bridge through your words to the soul, To the healing inner, To the inner child. And you also, Through your meditations, Create imagery because I just re-listened to the number three or two masterclass one, When you're going down the golden staircase and you're on the checkered floor. Like, So there's imagery, Of course, Which obviously that helps, But it's, It's for me, It's like, You've unblocked my throat. Like I can, I guess, But I'm just hearing it and I'm just like, Yes, Yes. And it's some completely resonates. There's a sound and I'm like, I'm a different person than I was three years ago. You're the real you. Right. But I think that you have a gift and you're using it and you have a following because you're, You're using like, I mean, We all have our gifts, Right? So I can paint and I can write, But I can't speak it. I can't do it. And so I want to, But I just, It's just not one of my gifts. And so I am completely the beneficiary of what you're saying all the time. And you really are the first person that I've found who says it. And I'm glad you, And I'm glad you keep saying it because what I wanted to share too, Like you asked me to boil it down to three things that I've how I boiled it down to 10. Okay. I'm just saying, It's just like, I, I really have to gush because I need to hear it again and again. And because there's so much resistance to changing my old worn out lousy, Terrible, Non-helping habits. And there's also this feeling of being indignant. Like, You mean I have to be grateful now that I've tried my whole life to do so many things and be like, Basically super woman, You mean now it's all about, I have to be grateful. And I mean, There was so much resistance to that and there still is, It's just like, I have to make them and be grateful. And so that pissed me off at first. And so now it's taken me again and again and again and again, To be realizing, Yeah, I need to be grateful. I get it now. Okay. I also want to say before we get started is the indignant, The feeling indignant is one of our protective layers. So I'm going to protect myself from not being grateful because grateful is tied to vulnerability. It means I've released this armor. So being indignant is a little, It's a goosebumps because it's protecting me. It's the only thing that I can hold onto. It's the adolescent in us. Right? Childish. So now if I let it go, You're going to hurt my inner child. So it's like the adolescent ego, Its job is to protect the inner child. So get behind me inner child. I'm going to wrap you up in this. I'm going to feel it, Have this feeling of being indignant and angry and resentful. It's all about protection, But another layer of healing is let me, I can release this armor because now I know how to protect myself. So, And in that space, If I can learn to vibrate with gratitude in spite of what's happened, I've transcended ego. And now I'm able to, In spite, I'm not saying it didn't happen. I'm observing it. I know exactly. I know that it happened, But I'm not attached to it anymore. So I can keep flying. That's the goal. I mean, I'm really like the archetypical codependent. So everything you talk about is exactly what every video that you put out, The applying to me because there is so much shame. Right. And that's another, That's like, I was going to say, It's like shellac moving it from like an old piece of furniture. Right. It's like trying to take the shellac off a piece of furniture. That's what shame, That's what it's trying to, That's what it feels like to try to get the shame out. Absolutely. Absolutely. And so that, And I like the, When you use so many metaphors, I learned so much from your metaphors and that really, That's why I was trying to do the same thing. Right. My mom has BPD. Okay. And she was very sick. She started getting worse when I was about five. And so I really had no connection. Like I tried. Right. And she just kept getting worse and worse. And it was really a huge disaster. And my father, What, Sorry, Right. She was diagnosed. No, That's the problem. She was on every medication. She went to a really fancy rehab. She went to the same rehab as Judy Garland and the one in Groveland, Massachusetts, And they gave her fancy meds and she got addicted to those. Yeah. Elmane. And I, That was when I was 14 and the doctor, Her psychiatrist had an affair with her. Like it's pretty bad, You know, Like, And then my father just didn't, My father couldn't handle it. And he just, And he was already an alcoholic and it just devolved from age. Well, I got started getting bad age. Well, I noticed it at age five that my mom was like distant, But then my father just couldn't deal with her. So he got violent, Violent. So I, I remember freezing when I was 10, Listening to them at night, Fighting violently. And I just wrote, I remember feeling like my old, We were in bunk beds. My older sister was on the top and I was at the bottom bunk. She started crying and I just did nothing. So it was frozen. And then it just got worse from there. I like that, You know, You're, You're, I can already, I can hear it, Your, Your language that you're connecting to, Oh, You know, The two, The two authorities in my life are losing it. And then the other authority, My sibling is losing it. I am powerless and helpless. There is no one here, You know, And that is, That is when you reach such a state of anxiety that you freeze and you're actually numbed out. I've been, I was numbed out. Yeah. Like I know that in our culture, We can't really say our age and our, And our income, But I want to point out that I grew up at a time when self-help was just peeking through the surface. I was coming of age in the seventies and that was a dicey time, As you know, Cause I've heard your story about saving that. I mean, Being on the, On the scene with that woman ODing. Yep. For the seventies were so hard. Like I felt, I never felt safe. And then moving in through college and stuff in 1985 is when the self-help movement was breaking through the surface. And I was lucky to be born at the time when that was happening because my parents certainly didn't have that. So it's been a gradual process and I, But I mean, It's like, I'm not like 45, I'm 10 years, You know, 12 years older, Almost 13 years older than that. So that the way that society is evolving has also influenced me. My name is Lisa Romano, The Breakthrough Life Coach, And I have the pleasure of interviewing a wonderful woman who is going to grace us with her story. It's very inspirational. And it's within her heart to really share with you some of the things that she's learned on her road to recovery. It's been a long road. It's going to be an ongoing process. And she's here to inspire you with her story. Her name is Jean. She grew up in a dysfunctional home, Like so many of us with the mom who struggled with BPD and mental health issues, As well as a dad who was an alcoholic. She is the middle child who grew up in the seventies and who has struggled as well with the difficulty, The time in our lives when the self-help movement really wasn't full force as it is now. So we're just going to have a nice chat and hopefully all of you will learn something and be inspired by this amazing woman, Jean. So Jean, Welcome to the Breakdown to Breakthrough Podcast. Thank you, Lisa. I'm honored to be here with you. Well, I'm honored to interview you. You're a very special person in my heart. So why don't you tell us a little bit about your background, Who you are and what you do, And we'll get into it. Present day, I am an educator. I do teach in New York City. I teach high school. I teach world languages and art. I come from Massachusetts, Although I've lived in New York City for several years. Obviously that's a very different place. I come from a family of three daughters and we were raised in a very small town in coming of age, Born in the sixties and coming through the seventies. And by the time the eighties, I was in college in 1981. Right. That's awesome. So listeners know that you have had a difficult background. So why don't you tell us a little bit about your family construct? I know you shared with me that around five years old, That was a very important time in your life. Can you tell us why that was so important? What were you picking up on at that age? Thank you. So, Yeah, So I basically have both parents who were very dysfunctional, But focusing on my mom, I really wasn't able to bond with my mom. I gave up on that pretty young. So I do have a very specific memory of being in kindergarten and I was at a Catholic school and it was the last day of school and the teacher hung all of our work on the walls. And I was so excited. I was just so thrilled to be able to show my mom the result of all of my hard work in kindergarten. And I remember that she was so blank. I remember trying to like hold, Hold, Holding her hand and trying to like, Rush her up the driveway into the school. And she just seems like somewhere else. And I just remember feeling so frustrated, Like, Why can't she be so excited about my work? And why can't she express that? So already I was, At that very young age, I was thinking there's something off here. Yeah, So I would imagine that, You know, It's the way I describe for adult children of alcoholics and children who grew up feeling not attuned to their parents is like, You feel like a fish outside the aquarium and all you want to do is jump inside mom's skin. All you want to do is jump into her love, Right? So you can share with, Can you share with us a little bit about what happened in mom's life and how that ended up affecting you? Yes. So I found out much later in my life that she probably had bipolar disorder. I was already in my mid forties when I found that out. There was no doctor, No psychiatrist, No one reached out to the children, Us, To tell us what her diagnosis was, Although she was being prescribed heavy medications from psychiatrists. So basically it rolled out like this. She was trying to self-medicate through my grammar school years and my middle school years, And she became an alcoholic because, Well, My father was drinking, So that was part of what she saw. And she became an alcoholic and it was really, She had a more kind of a binge drinking kind of a habit, Whereas my father's drinking was more kind of like controlled where he could still go to work and not go off the deep end every month or so. So there were some very difficult moments of being a child and trying to pour her bottles of wine down the drain. And I remember having my friends sleep over when I was probably about 11 and I found her a bottle of wine and I started going around the rooms and dabbing the rooms with her wine like it was perfume because I didn't really know what, This wine seemed to have some power and my friend was just amused. And then my mother came into the bedroom where I was with my friend and she said, Have you seen my wine? And I just felt like she cares about the wine more than she cares about my friend and my sleepover. And I was hiding the wine in the closet. So there was this always sort of this game going on with wine. By the time I was 13, My mother was really in a bad way. And I remember waking up early in the morning, My father didn't know what to do either. So he took me in the car with my mom. My mom was like really red in the face. She was very drunk. And we drove to the nearest detox, Which was about 25 minutes away. And she had the rule is you have to sign yourself in. My mother was very drunk so she couldn't do it or she didn't want to do it. So I remember waiting there. I was like 12 or 13 in the morning. Like 12 or 13 in the car, Like one in the morning, Two in the morning, Waiting for her to sign herself in because my father didn't know what to do with her. So finally, I guess it took over an hour. I don't remember. My father came back into the car and said, Well, What should I do? What should I do about my marriage? I was 12. And so I didn't know what to say. I felt over, I was already becoming over responsible and perfectionistic. So I didn't know what to say. And then finally she signed herself in. And I remember sort of the relief of that. And then we drove home, But that was at two in the morning. So I was quite young when this was happening. By the time I was 14, My father's insurance paid for her to go to a very fancy rehab detox place. And sadly the fancy place allowed her to have these very expensive medications or very, You know, Dalmain and some medications that basically the medication is trying to give you the same effect as the alcohol, But without the loss of control. So she was on, I don't even know, I was 14 years old. And then she kept about three times a year, She would end up being in these places, Different ones, But mostly the same one, For 14, 10 to 14 days at a time. So we were three daughters, We were by ourselves. The father was working. So she was gone. The other part is that when I was about 16 or 17, I would be up late finishing my homework. And then a couple of times around 11 PM, There was a phone call from doctor. I'm thinking, Why is the doctor calling my mother at 11 o'clock at night? And then I realized he was having an affair with my mother. So that was confusing. And I didn't really piece that together for a while either. So, You know, That was hard. And I just, At that point in my life, I was already quite depressed. My weight was going up and down. I already had an eating disorder. Very perfectionistic. And I just wanted to take it out. And it was hard because I needed the support of my parents and my family. But like you say all the time, Lisa, I couldn't bond with them. I couldn't connect. And I couldn't have a feeling. And it was a no talk rule. And I felt trapped. And so on the outside, I wanted to look perfect. I didn't want anybody to know there were problems in my family. It was a small town. No one was helping us as the children. Because it was still quite early in terms of like self help and like talking about these issues. So I really felt alone. And so my ticket out was, First of all, It was easier to stay in my head than it was to go into my heart. So I decided that for me, It was all about college and getting good grades and getting a ticket out and at least being in my own corner with getting some opportunities and some some opportunities and some choices. Yeah, That's how it played out. Yeah. And so talk to me about, Because a lot of adult children of alcoholics downplay their parents drinking. And a lot of people don't understand the plight of an ACOA, The inability to connect to your feelings, The need to control everything, Including how you feel, The inability to have fun, The inability to let go, To feel so afraid and alone in a crowd, To feel different, And at the same time to feel so different and yet to ache to belong. I believe that this is rooted in shame. Right? So when you have a mom who has a mental health issue, You can't connect. When you have a dad who's an alcoholic, You can't connect. So you were abandoned by both mother and father, Both divine male, Both divine female. Those energies were not something that you or your sisters were afforded to, Which every child needs in order to balance their own energies. Right? Yeah. So now as a result of that, You end up feeling shame. Can you talk about that a little bit? Oh, Yes. Shame. That word, I couldn't identify it as shame. First of all, That was something I still have. I really need to sit quietly. And I actually put my hands on my heart when I'm meditating. And I have this feeling of peace, But then there are these blocks and I don't know why the block is there. And then I'm like, Oh, It's shame. And I'm still learning about shame. And as I mentioned before, Trying to remove shame from your inner child or from your person is like trying to take the shellac off of an old piece of furniture that you're trying to refurbish. It's so stuck on there. And it's just really hard. I guess the first piece is identifying it. And what I want to tell the listeners is that this journey is, I've been listening to you and I've been basically your healing path into your pioneering work for three years, Almost three years. And I need to hear it again and again. I really need to listen again and again to continue to make breakthroughs because it doesn't happen. At first, You do have a mini breakthrough. And I remember you were saying that when you first could touch the shame, Your body was changing, Your skin, Your whole physical self was just being altered, Which I did. It was like, I felt lightheaded. There was a sort of dizziness, Which was weird, But it was a good thing. And I thought, Okay, I'm done. I did it. I broke through the shame. Great. A plus. But now when I realized, No, It doesn't happen all at once. And so you keep, It's like, It's like you're running the hurdles in the Olympics and you've got to go over all the hurdles, Except the game keeps going. It gives it more hurdles. You think you're done? No. And so it does lessen, But it does take time to, And a lot of patience. And what I also said while we were talking before was that the thing about patience. And so I said that if you think you need patience as a middle child in a dysfunctional family, That's one thing. That's one thing. If you think you needed patience when you were with, As a codependent with a narcissistic partner, But then just wait till you try to do your healing. That's when you really need patience. And that's a lot of patience. That's a lot. Like a lot of people think, Oh, I'm healing. Well, Healing hurts. Yeah. Yeah. I can make light of it now. I can, I kind of get, I kind of like make it fluffy, But it's, It's, It came at a heat. Like, I remember you listening. I remember you doing a YouTube video when you were talking to you were doing a live, You were doing a live live stream and the person asked a question and you said, And she was abused by her father and he insulted her about her weight. And she, And you said, You need to take stock about what that cost you. What did the loss of your father cost you? And you were talking about just before you were talking about not wanting to, You, You're sort of saying you make light of the fact that they were, They were ill. Yes. Because of it goes back to the Greeks. It goes back to family honor and you're it's like the Greeks wrote about it. It's like, You're, You want, You want to like, I could not betray my parents on happiness. Like there were opportunities for me as an adult to just to be with people who were making me happy, But I would always sabotage it because there was this underlying thing that I, Well, My parents are unhappy. So how can I be happy? Right. And so I was, I was, And I wanted to raise my parents up and say they were, They were great, But, And I, So I was basically downplaying the fact that there was so much damage because I didn't want to be dishonorable. Yeah. And it's natural. Right. And it's also a defense mechanism. So how does an inner child look square in the face? My parents don't know what they're doing. Yeah. My parents aren't picking me up after school. I can't connect with that's terrifying. So part of the ego defense mechanism is to fantasize, Right? If I do this, It'll get better. If I don't do that, It's not happening. If I don't look at that, Look at that, It's not happening. So it's this fantasy aspect of our imagination that serves us to protect the integrity of the family we wish we'd had. Right. And so part of the illusion is, Well, If I act outside, Like everything's okay, Maybe it is. So it's that denial of just how bad things are, But how can a seven year old really accept mentally and cognitive consciously, Cognitively that things are that bad. They can't, They don't have the ability to do it. And so we all create this construct. It's going to get better. And if I protect her, Maybe one day it'll get better. But in order to heal, We have to pull the bandaid off and you can't miss a chocolate Sunday you've never had. So adult children of alcoholics, Children from dysfunctional homes, Emotional neglect, Abuse, And all that it's abused by omission as well as commission. You can't miss love. You never have. So you're out and about trying to control your weight and you're trying to control other people and you're trying to be perfect. And you don't understand that what you're missing is love. And you don't understand that the way to figure that out has to do with, I have to take stock and I have to look at what was missing in my life before I can go out and get it for myself. It's very complicated process. This healing is not all about unicorns and wood fairies. No, No. I think your pioneering work has you creating a bridge to that inner child with all of your work. And I, Like I said, Through the throat chakra, Through your words, I'm able to access these sort of complicated processes. So without your work, I really would not have known, Well, First of all, I wouldn't have really bought into the law of attraction. It seemed like too out there to me. Like I couldn't like Abraham Hicks. I wouldn't have, Like I wouldn't have thought that that could be something for me. But your pioneering work is basically naming it. It's like Rumpelstiltskin. You're putting the name on these things. And my process of healing started really in 19, Maybe 1984 when I was suffering. And I went to seek out mental health through a counselor at my university. That was the first step. And there was a group of women that we met with. I still wasn't completely conscious and I wasn't completely accepting it. Then in 1985 was when the ACOA movement kicked off. And I started going to those meetings in a living room of giant living room of this man in Connecticut. And that was helpful. And I used to cry through the whole thing. And then I had my own therapist. She was quite good. And then I also reached out to the Buddhist community and that was about 10 years of going to retreats and going to a retreat center in upstate New York. And there was still something missing. There was, Everybody was just sort of, Like you said, Fairy, Wood fairies and lollipops and unicorns and cupcakes. Some people were so happy by that. And for me, There was still something missing. So what I'm saying about your work is that you are combining all of it. And it's science, It's the brain, It's spiritual, But it's physical, It's emotional, The emotional body, And it's your history and all of it together. With just sitting in medi. . . It took me 10 years to just meditate, To learn how to meditate, But until I couldn't really benefit, I couldn't really reap the benefits of meditation until I found your work. What does it mean to sit with yourself? There is no self. So you were able to bring me to that spot where I could tap because there was trust, Because I trusted you. And it was like, Okay, I tried to trust the ACOA. That was one step along the way. I'm not poo-pooing it, It's just that one step. And then the Buddhist phase, I could just say, I still enjoy it, But it's just. . . That was another step. But I still felt there was something missing. And it was that when you combined all of it. Yeah, Because I have found myself in the self-help industry and the spirituality, Even law of attraction, If you talk about the negative, You're doing something wrong. Well, I'm sorry. I have spiritual gangrene. What am I supposed to do now? I have this aching inner child that has been invalidated. I've missed huge psychological milestones. My brain has been wired for survival and protection rather than connection. So neurologically, I'm not wired to expand and grow. In fact, I'm wired for constriction. So vibrationally, I'm giving off this aura. And so that's how it ties into what am I manifesting? What am I attracting? Psychologically, I'm focusing on what I don't want to protect myself. So if I'm focusing on what I don't want, I never pick my nose up to look, Oh my God, What do I do want? And so now I'm frustrated because in my experience, All of these other people, So I think, Are doing great things. And I just can't. I just can't move forward. And to me, That is just so sad because I think, In my opinion, The spiritual community, The self-help community, Even mental health, We need to talk, Please let me talk about my anger. I've had one client say to me, Lisa, The therapist threw me out of her office and said, Until you deal with your anger, I can't help you. It's your job to help me deal with my anger. You know how you deal with anger? You validate it. You witness. You help your client acknowledge it. Of course you feel that way. That's a natural human emotion. You have empathy, Right? And what we're learning to do on a healing journey is to find the space to be able to observe our childhood experiences. So we are now in the logical, Rational mind, And we're understanding the emotional mind, Which is not always rational. Yeah. Emotions are not always rational. I want to punch you in the nose because you didn't invite me to a party. That's not rational. Right? And so it's how I feel, Which is valid, Right? Valid is how I feel. I wasn't invited to the party. I love this person. I don't know why I wasn't invited. The anger is rational. I feel like punching her in the nose, But that's just a feeling. It's just my brain expressing, Wow, You're really angry right now. But to actually punch her in the nose is not a rational thing to do. It's not logical. If anything, It's going to make things worse. So, But to be able to go from being reactive and having all of this subconscious programming, Running the ship and being unconscious and living below the veil to go from that space, Which I spent most of my life, As I'm sure you have, Looking for, How do I get to oneness? I'm gangrene. I'm dying. Like something's really wrong. I secretly hate you because you're so happy. Right? I secretly resent you. And now I have so much shame. I'm trying so hard to go to oneness, But I really can't stand you. Layering. Exactly. I really hope that becomes a psychological term. I've got that from you. I really hope because it just makes no sense. Right? But to go from that space as the adult child of an alcoholic or someone who's trying so hard to keep it together. Right. Yeah. To go from there to the observer self. Many steps. So what was that like for you to go from, Oh, Snap. What am I doing? Yeah. I'm not observing and labeling finally putting words to, Oh, There's a loss of selfhood because mom and dad were so dysfunctional and they were so absorbed in their own reality that their heart never bridged to my heart. So psychologically, I don't have a psychological concept or anchor to self. That's why I have a loss of self. I have a loss of self. Can you talk about that moment where you had that awakening? Like I need to observe. Yeah. So it was obviously a process. So this is how it really worked out for me. So I had a teen in the house and she was rebellious a little bit, Obviously like a normal teenager. I wasn't allowed to be a normal teenager. I was very tightly wound. So I had a teenager raising her in New York city and I, She would constantly trigger. I would be constantly triggered. And then I started raging after 10 years in a Buddhist retreat center or going to Buddhist retreats. I was like, Where's this coming from? I'm not done yet. So she was my gift actually. Well, They all are, But she, I would be like, I would start, I became a rager. And I mean, To this day, She's almost 20. I keep apologizing and I keep, Sometimes I was on the phone with her the other day and I was crying. I was like, I'm so sorry, All those precious times I had with you that I yelled at you. So I raise, I'm raising my hand. I still need help. I need help. So my, Another friend I met from the Buddhist community said, You should go to ACOA meetings and do the 12 steps. So I was like, All right, I do need help. Went to the ACOA meetings. There's a lot of them in New York city. I went for about two years, About twice per week. And there was one meeting where someone said, I, I suffered from emotional neglect as a child. And for some reason the words emotional neglect really all sort of resonated with me and I was like clanging around in my head for a while. So then I was like emotional neglect. Let me find out more about that. So I really went on, Onto Google and I wrote in emotional neglect, Click. And then I found there's a third thing called childhood emotional neglect. It's a thing. And I was like, Wow, It's actually a thing. So then I Googled that maybe on YouTube and then your video with Ross Rosenberg came up. And that's the first one I listened to. And that was on May 8th, 2018. And I was, And there's, And then I heard you, I heard your voice, Which resonates with me. And I I've watched the whole interview. I was like, This is it. And then I watched about four more of your videos. And I said, I said to myself, This is my healing. And that was the moment where I, Cause it's cause you're very, Natural. Like you, I mean, I don't know what to say. Like you're just very down to earth and you don't, I mean, You just didn't put on airs or anything. You just say it like you want to say it. And it really, Really like reached me. And I know all the people that who follow you, It just reaches you. And that was what cracked the last shell. And I, Since then, It's been basically breakthrough after breakthrough. And, You know, Obviously I took your 12 week class and I took your masterclass and I just keep listening to those meditations over and over and over and over. That's fantastic. You know, It takes a lot, You know, We come here to evolve. We come here to transcend, Right. You know, We talked a little bit before we started about this idea that our parents didn't have the same opportunities in regard to Oprah and Dr. Phil and Sally, Jesse Raphael and Phil Donahue. I mean, Really those were the pioneers that really helped create this self-help movement where it was a thing. Oprah definitely helped a lot too. And so we're very fortunate to be able to catch the tail end of that. And certainly women who, Women and men who are in their twenties and thirties and forties today, Right. They are way ahead of the curve compared to you and always we're about the same age, Right. So that's important. And so you're doing it, You're breaking the cycle for your generation. Your daughter will benefit from all of the healing work. You went from a five watt bulb to a hundred watt bulb, Right. Now she has the benefit of a mom who's awake and aware. And all you have to do, Jean, Is be remorseful. That's enough. You don't have to throw yourself on the sword because the remorse is the energy you need to help keep you in check. And it helps prevent you. It's pain versus pleasure because you're a kind person. You love your daughter in an authentic way. So your brain is actually, Again, I think the goal is to teach people how to think, Right. It's not to not have problems because if you know how to think you can solve any problem. Right. So you can't have shame in this thinking process because shame is the way you handle a problem. You end up being codependent. You end up raging, You end up reacting. And so healing that shellac shame is really important, Right? So remorse is all you need because pain versus pleasure, You're going to associate pain with hurting your daughter and pleasure with not hurting your daughter. And your brain's going to auto-correct and be more observing. So I think that that's awesome. So what is it that you feel you've learned? And what do you know now that you didn't know prior to really diving deep into the ACOA healing journey and putting all the pieces of the puzzle together? Well, I've learned that, You know, After taking, Listening to you for three years, That's where the real breakthrough came in May of 2018, And taking two of your classes. I feel that gratitude and self-care really is the way. And there is a lot of resistance to that when you grow up in survival mode and you're just basically waiting for the next shoe to drop. You know, You're just constantly on fight or flight Fawn or the four F's that, I forget his name, The one who wrote that wonderful book. Right. And so I was constantly in the four F's. And I was constantly in the four F's. And not the New York F just kidding. And you know, I've learned that there was a lot of resistance. And like I said, During, We were talking earlier, Indignance to dealing with the fact that I had to be grateful after everything I've done, I've basically turned myself inside out several thousands of times. I've contorted myself into every shape like spider woman I've done. I've scaled the highest building. And now you're telling me I have to be grateful. Like that's really it. And it's, There's a resistance to that, You know? And so also the survival mode, Like, Okay, I'm in survival mode in my family. My father was also a violent alcoholic. He was abusive physically to me and into my mother, Mostly to my mom. So I was in survival mode, Going through college. That was also tough. Also no emotional support going through that. So it's still staying in my head, You know, Starting my life on my own, Really on my own, No family helping me really very little. There is, There was a little bit. And just, And then, You know, Trying to get my life going, Like trying to find happiness through a relationship, Not trusting that, Not trusting myself when I felt happy. Like I remember my root chakra when I met someone, I was like, Why is this feel so good? Like, It was like, My body was telling me that it, That it was okay. And I was like, No, It's not okay. And I sabotaged it. I just didn't trust myself. So I just was more comfortable in survival mode. And so to shed that, To shed, The Buddhists call it habit energies. So it's like, We're stuck in our habit energies because that's what we know. And that's what's familiar. And it also makes you feel safe and, You know, In terms of a hierarchy of needs, You need to feel safe. And when you grew up feeling unsafe physically and emotionally, This energy that the habit of energy is how you survive. And asking an ACOA or someone from a dysfunctional home, Take that off. What? Yeah. I have to take this habit of energy off. It's the only thing that makes you feel safe, Lady. What are you out of your mind? And then, So now I have to take off the only thing that makes you feel safe. And then I got to be grateful. Yeah. That's why a lot of people are turned off, You know, And I was turned off as, As we were talking about before, Like there's something missing. Yeah. Right. Or be forgiving. Oh, Okay. I just have to forgive. That's the answer to all my problems. No, The first step is to acknowledge what went wrong. Make peace with that. Forgive yourself, Forgive everything. And then you can move forward. I can't for. . . What is the word forgive? It's for give. Do I have to give you something? I have to give you an energy. There's an energy exchange, But I can't give you something I haven't been permitted to possess. And what I need, I have to, We have to give people the permission to possess the anger, The sadness, The grief, The disappointment, The lack, The abuse. Give people the right to accept that they have been treated this way. Give them time, Validate them. And when they're ready, They can have this energy exchange of forgiveness and accept it happened. Yeah. Yeah. So one, Okay. So what I want to tell also the listeners is that, You know, The way you have a special gift, I'm not trying to be patronizing, But like you sometimes, You know, You say, You are there to say it again and again, You are patient with us, The healers, You know, Like people on, Because you already, You already did it. So you're here giving your time and your energy to say it again. And people need to hear it a lot. I know that because I am very patient because I've had to be, But I mean, It's taking me to hear it again and again. And also sometimes when you speak, You can be, You can sound very glib like, Yeah, You just do this, Do this and do this. Okay. And namaste, You know, See you next time. But, But, And then it sounds, Oh, That's easy. Okay, Good. Just tapping to be grateful. Good. Just self-care. Good. Then you realize, Then you're realizing, No, It takes time. It takes a lot of time and I'm, I'm actually, You know, Feel like I'm sick of being patient. You know, I'm so sick of it, But I'm realizing with my healing, This is the moment. This is the moment when I really deserve to be patient with myself and, And finally feel like I'm not missing the boat. If I'm not going to be, If I'm being patient, Like when you're a kid, I feel like I'm missing the boat. Everyone else is there having fun. And I'm here being patient, Trying to get something for my parents. That's not good. And then in a relationship, I'm missing the boat. And this is supposed to be happy. Like I'm being patient, But it's not working. So now it's boiling down to me and my healing and I'm like, Okay, This is not going to work, But you have to, This is really the moment when it's going to work. We have to help people understand that the patience is the boat. Well, You, You learned that. Patience is the boat. Yeah. Patience is the boat. Yeah. It's not, Not coming. Patience is the boat. That's the whole purpose. We have to learn to be patient with ourselves. Our parents weren't patient. There was, What is patience? Consideration. It's compassion. It's love. It's forgiveness. It's understanding. It feels nurturing, Right? It's patience. There's no rushing. Right? And so when you're learning to be patient with yourself, You're actually nurturing self. So this is the boat. Right. But that's, I have to honestly say that's very hard to do when everything's so instant in this society, You're clicking, You're swiping, You're, Everything's instant, Instant images, Instant. And so you're, You're just, You're just confused. Like, Why is this not instant? I think that's why we need to find the silence. That's why we need to find the stillness. You know, How many, I don't know how to do it. Well, Get off your laptop. Right. Stop watching YouTube videos. In other words, Like put in your earbuds, Go into a dark room, Light a candle, Sit down. I remember my therapist said, Go home and turn everything off. I said, What? He says, I want to know how long you can sit on your couch without the television, A cell phone, A book or something. Maundry. I was like, I can do that. Gee, I went home. I was like, I literally sat on my hands and I can do this. I can do it. And I was like, Your mind is not shutting off. Like meditation was like, I said, This is the gateway for me because how am I going to catch a dysfunctional thought and reprogram it with pure science because neuroplasticity is real. So epigenetics is real. So the biology of reprogramming the subconscious mind is a fact. I want a piece of that and get on the other side of this crazy thing that's going on in my head. I have to learn to silence the thought in my head. I understood it was a tape recorded message. It was on autoplay, Autoplay. Cause I was unconscious on autopilot, Like everybody, 95% unconscious, 95% of the time reacted. Right. So thinking I'm right, Trying to get my needs trying to get my needs met sideways. Oh, This was crapola. And so meditation was okay. I have to use meditation as a key, As a gateway to slow this mind down. I would meditate for three, Four hours. I'm not kidding. I'd lay down on my couch and I'd sit up and go, Oh, Oh, Snap. Crazy town lay back down again. I do another meditation, Another 40 minutes. Nope. So crazy. It's in there. Lay down again until it was like four hours. I would sit up and go, Okay, The words aren't racing. Okay. The kids come home and it's like mayhem again, You know? But I was like, But I, This is it. All I have to do is find the silence within. I gave myself permission. I gave myself permission to give myself the patience that I never received from my mother and father. What are you doing? You know, Trying to be good enough all the time. Right. I gave myself permission to be patient with learning how to meditate and it changed my life. And from there now I had the blackboard. Yeah. Now I had the contrast was finding the silence. And now when a negative thought came in, I was like, There you are, You SOB. There you are. Then I could observe my codependent silly self. Oh, He just did it again. And that was like, Okay. Okay. And then I would just go back to the drawing board journal about it. What is the root belief here? It was patience. You have to love yourself enough to be patient. I think the key here for the listeners too, Is that you have to hit your bottom first. And I there's a lot of resistance to hitting your bottom. I just feel that when you can't handle any more pain, That's when you can be, That's when you know that the only way to move forward is to sit quietly with yourself. And because it takes in our society and our whatever lives, It takes a lot to trust that. It takes a lot to trust that you really have to be, You really have to have hit your bottom and that's different from for everybody. Right. And I definitely, I hit my bottom. And then the brain is designed to run away from a forest fire. Right. So, Okay. I have to sit here and I have to feel. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's why I try to teach people. It's okay to feel what you feel. We're just acknowledging it consciously. But people need to know how the brain works. So now if I know how my brain is working, How my mind is working, Then I can understand these somatic responses to a trigger and a memory. And then it's not so scary to sit with it. Now I know I'm just processing. It's like a tree that's blocking a river. Right. All we're doing is picking the tree up so this energy can flow and you're going to feel like crap. Yeah. That's normal. You're going to feel like it's supposed to be that way because your subconscious mind and your body are one. So you can't separate the subconscious mind from the body. So consciously, Consciously versus subconsciously. Consciously you have to allow your body to do what it was designed to do. But that's why I think the support and the language and okay, This is normal. Putting a label on it rather than just, And sometimes medication is necessary, But it's not always the answer. No. Teaching people how to feel, I think is the answer. Yeah. Well, It's part of the answer. It's not the only answer, But it's definitely part of the answer. What else do you think people should know? What do you want? Well, I think for me, It's about integration, Right? So I think I was numb for so long and I didn't know it either. I just thought I'm supposed to keep paying attention out there, Out there, Out there, My all the time. That's how I operated. I had to look a certain way. I had to speak a certain way. I had to be good enough for someone out there. And I just never, I just kept abandoning myself, Always abandoning myself in so many ways. And I was dying inside. Like you said, The gang green, I was suffering so much. Putting on the face, Putting on this, I was a shell. Like you said, In your, In your video, You're like, I was a shell. Like I, This echoes in my brain and it's taking me a very, It's taking me a very long time. You know, I'm in my fifties and to get to understand that the only way I can be happy to touch, To tap that happiness is to integrate. And that is sitting with that pain and acknowledging it. And it just, It's integrating the mind and the body and it is, It sounds very cliche, But it does. That's really what it's about. And I did, I remember being in Europe. I was, I mean, I teach world languages, So I've traveled a lot and I was doing a sculpture and a scholarly project. And I was with a very well-educated woman in Switzerland. And she, We were talking about literature and stuff. And she mentioned the story from, From the Bible, I guess I didn't even know it was from the Bible. And I'm just like, I remember you saying in your videos, Lisa, That all of the wisdom of the universe is somewhere in the Bible. It's just that you have to figure, You have to find it. You have to fish it out. And as I was getting, You know, I knew I was going to have this conversation. So I was thinking about this woman who said some story about the, A rabbi who found, Who found the treasure in his own oven. And I, And I was like, What is that story? So I Googled it. And it's basically the story of a rabbi who has a dream. His name is Isaac. And he has a dream that the treasure, That there's a treasure under a bridge in Prague under the Warsaw bridge. So he goes from Poland all the way to Prague to find the treasure, But the treasure is being guarded by these soldiers on the bridge and he can't get it. So the soldier says to him, Sir, What are you looking for? What's why you here? He said, Well, I had this dream that there's a treasure under the bridge. And he said, He said, What? He said, You came all the way over here to find this treasure. And the guard said, Well, I had a dream that there was a treasure under a bridge in Warsaw, In Poland. And then the man realized that there, That there was the treasure. Sorry. He realized that there was a treasure in an oven in Warsaw. So then the rabbi realized, Oh, The treasure's in my own home in my own oven. And so the wisdom of that is that the, The healing, The, The answer is not outside you. It's in your own heart. And then of course I deal with words cause I, I speak languages. So it's like hearth and heart are kind of the same word. So it's like the answers are, Is inside of you. And so, I don't know, I, I just felt that was powerful that the Bible in, In the old Testament says that they even say it is not in heaven. And so when I listened to your video and you said, You know, You were talking about this, You're not a Bible freak, But the answers to the universe are in the Bible woven in there. And I just remembered hearing that story and I still didn't understand the story until very recently that the journey is really like you said in your book, The road back to me. And so I did not, It was so much resistance, The shame, The denial, The habit energies, The just the like being out of patience, No more patience to go forward. So I didn't really get it until I found your work. Like I, Yes, You have to go inside. The thing is though, This is the thing. So if the answer is to go home, But I don't have a home. Yeah. I roam. I roam. That's not my fault. And the world is full of people who are roaming in the desert 40 years or more. Right. And the answer is to go home, But I don't have a home. Exactly. Why don't I have a home? Because when you were a child, The home that you were supposed to feel, You were denied because of alcoholism. What is the home? Love. A feeling of love. To feel love. That's home. Because if I felt loved as a child, Then the love and the home that I need is within me because I am enough. Right. So in order to go home, We have to help people understand, I think, Why they're roaming, Why they're looking outside of themselves, Why they're lost in the desert, Why there's a, You know, There's, They're so thirsty for love. Because you don't know that the answer is home. And you don't know that because you were denied love because of parental issues, That the home is within you. Psychologically, You have been taught to look outside of you because you haven't met that milestone of trusting that you are enough. And that trust only comes from the bridge or the umbilical cord that replaces the physical umbilical cord, Which is the miracle bond, The oxytocin. Right. It's just incredible. So people are roaming because they don't know that they, They should be going home because home is, Doesn't exist. They don't have a self. What are you talking about? It's so sad. It's so sad. And they don't even know that they don't have a self. They think because they're talking, Making a big fuss at target, You know, And hanging out on Friday night, You know, Having a couple of beers with the ladies, Happy hour that they're awake. No, You're not. You're animated. I feel so fortunate that I found your work because I would still be roaming. If I hadn't found your YouTube videos, Free of charge, Like you said, I really would still be roaming. And it was because of not trusting that, That there's a connect, That there's something of value in me already. Right. It's been a very long journey and it was very, Very, Very painful. And I'm so fortunate that I, I just like, I, I just feel so lucky. That's great. That's great vibration. Yeah. I just, Cause I know how, Like you said, The people who will hear healed the most have felt the worst have felt the darkness and the hopelessness and the constant roaming through the desert. That was me. Yeah, Me too. And it was when I started to label, Cause every once in a while, Like I'll, Somebody will reach out. Not often. I mean, The numbers are really insignificant compared to the types of emails I get, But every once in a while, I'll get an email from someone who's like, You talk about everything. That's so negative. I'm like, I'm really sorry that that's what you're taking away from my work. I'm trying to identify, I'm trying to identify the stone in your shoe. So you can take the stone out of your shoe and be more comfortable. Right. I'm trying to help you identify the sword that's in your side, Because a lot of us are walking around with a sword on our side and we don't know that we're in pain. People say, Oh, It's painful. It is painful, But the pain was there. The pain was there. You were just in denial of it, Trying to be perfect. You know, Trying to control this and try to control that, Or the pain was coming out sideways, Like the rage being triggered by your daughter. The pain was still there. It becomes intensified when we cut our connections to other people and we say, No, I'm going to go into the stillness and I'm going to deal with my stuff. Then it's like uncomfortable. Cause it's like, I'm choosing not to rage at anyone or blame anyone. I'm going to process this the way my mother should have helped me process my fear. My father should have processed my fear. My father never should have put me in this situation to be his marriage counselor at 12 or 13 after dropping my mom off some rehab, Right? This role reversal. So we're learning to, From a higher state of awareness, Observe the pain that's within us from a nonjudgmental, Purely passionate place for the process of integration. I think that what you're saying about that person, That saying that you're being so negative, I honestly think that's cultural. Like we have Disney world, Everybody's supposed to be happy. We have a pharmaceutical culture, Just take, Just pop a pill and you'll be happy. And there's a lot of resistance to sadness. It's not the same in Europe. I don't think it's not, But that's because of my other cultural reference. But I think that's also people are afraid to do that, To handle sadness for whatever reason. I think it's cultural too. I'm not, I'm not an authority on that, But I just feel that that's, What's hard for people in the healing path because they can't accept like a range of feelings. I remember John Bradshaw. That's one of my, I was ashamed for reading a John Bradshaw book when I was in the, In the late eighties, I was reading the book on, He wrote on the family and the shame that finds you. Yes. And healing the shame that finds you. It might've been the second book, But anyway, That was basically this. And he talks about the emotional keys and that you want to have all the octaves. You want to have all the 88 keys. And when you're growing up in an emotionally, Like wrecked family, You only have the use of one octave. And so you don't have an emotional range. And I did, I really read that really resonated with me. And I, And I remember repeating that to other people, But it took, It takes a while to sort of develop that repertoire of feelings. And so if people are still ill and still stuck, They can't, They can't open up to sadness and a range of other feelings because it's not safe or for whatever reason, They just don't have the practice. I agree. And I also think it's up to the healer too, The life coach and the therapist. Yeah. We're struggling with your own sadness and you've worked it through. And I think that's the key. If you're struggling with your own sadness and you've worked it through, You're going to be really uncomfortable when your client walks through the door and they're sad. You know, You're going to, You're going to, Because you haven't dealt with it. You haven't processed it. The goal really is we help one another when we learn to process a full range of emotion, It's just an experience. So what we're trying to do is really come out of the amygdala and the hippocampus, Come out of the experience of the three-year-old and learn to observe the three-year-old within us from a higher state of awareness. And as we do that, We learn to integrate. And then we're so much better at being empathetic rather than sympathetic towards other people. So now I'm able to hold the space for you as you share what's made you sad. And now I can validate you and have empathy for you. And you're like, What you anchor to me? Like, Oh my God, There's someone who gets it. You know, So you anchor to me knowing it's okay for me to be sad. Yeah, It's okay for you to be sad. And we're just going to stay here and talk about this until these feelings have been validated and poof, You've transcended them. So we all have to try to be that anchor, But we can't until we've learned to process what society calls negative emotions. They're just emotions and their experiences. We have to stop freaking out about them. But when we stop doing them, How many of us are going to be really happy? So how many of us are going to stop overeating? How many of us are going to stop reaching for alcohol when we realize that we can experience a full range of emotions and survive them? A lot of these diseases start to fall away when I know how to process my emotional and mental states from a higher state of awareness. And I think that's, Hopefully that's where we're moving. Well, You're, I know I sound patronizing, But your work is definitely like you said in your, One of your early videos about raising your vibrations, You said, What are we? We're pillars, Pillars of light. We're pillars to hold up, You know, So other people can come in to the world and not have to deal with all this darkness. And I just feel like, Yeah, We need, You are the anchor. You were, You were definitely my anchor and you actually still are because I listen to you all the time. And I think it's just, I don't know. It just, It just takes the trust of it. It takes time. It just takes time and investment in oneself to get there. Yeah. I mean, You have to invest the time. You have to feel, You have to, If you hear, Oh, I have a lost sense of self. That's why I don't invest in myself. Well, How do you wash a car? You don't have, How do you clean the house? You don't have, Right? How do you take care of a child that you don't have? You can't. And so I'm not investing in myself and I'm not loving myself because psychologically I'm not connected to myself because I don't have that anchor to self because my mother was an insufficient anchor. I was unable to anchor to her psychologically, Emotionally, Chemically, Neurologically, Vibrationally, Spiritually. So therefore I'm a feather in the wind or a leaf in the wind for now. So once I'm a leaf in the wind, Okay, Well, How do I become my own anchor? Yeah. Let's acknowledge what went wrong first. We have to have these difficult conversations. And that's why the first four weeks of the 12, We break a coaching program. They are challenging because I'm asking you to look at your boo-boos. You got gang green. Can we talk about it? You know, I actually didn't think the first four weeks were, I was like, I was ready. I was like, Bring it. I'm ready to dig. I'm dig deep. Help me. Like I was, I was, I wasn't, I was like, Good, Good. I was like, This is, This is exactly what I want. I didn't, Of course it didn't seem that way. Like it was so difficult climbing a mountain. It was like, Yes, Thank you. That's awesome. Yeah. I believe in pulling off the band-aid. Yes. No, It's so no, But when you like, I've had a lot of difficulty and I was shamed for trying to express it. And I have two sisters and they still don't, We still, I'm still considered the one that's too sensitive. And I'm, I'm ready to talk about the elephant in the living room every day and they don't want to go there. And the other thing I wanted to say was my, My father became a survivalist, Which is one of those bunker kinds of people, You know? And I think that's a social paranoia. You know, The stuff that we have, Have, We've all witnessed in the news lately with all everything, I don't want to have to go there, But like people who harbor those feelings, There is sort of like a social paranoia that they keep, Which is basically based in shame. My father's was a shame-based. His father was an alcoholic and a violent alcoholic too. And so my father had the same experience. He just transferred that onto our lives and his, His father was, His alcoholism was so bad. And I was, I was actually sitting with my great uncle to pick this apart because during the pandemic, I was just so upset because during the prohibition years, My great uncle had a truck and so he had wheels. And so my grandfather would ask him to go to the three towns over to buy the illegal alcohol so that he could, So he could drink it. And when he ran out, He would drink rubbing alcohol. Yeah. Yeah. And so my father, And then he became violent. And then my, To be honest, She finally moved out. But anyway, My father never talked to me. He was never talking about this. So he, I remember being 10 and my father went out and bought the giant freezer and a cabinet. He filled the freezer with frozen meat and he filled the cabinet with canned goods and his hobby was firearms. So he would make ammunition in the basement. And I didn't know what was going, I was like, Good. We've got lots of meat. We've got lots of canned goods. Awesome. In case there's a storm, We're good. We're a little, But I didn't understand the whole picture because I was 10 and it took me a long time to unpack that it took me a long time to understand. Oh, No wonder why he goes to the pit and wants to shoot the targets. He put a live gun in my hand when I was 10 and said, Shoot that target. And then when I was 15, He bought me, He bought me a firearm for my birthday. And I was like the most opposite kind of person. And I gave it back to him and I said, You know, I really just want to watch, You know, Like, So this was going on as well. And so when you're trying to crawl out of that, Yeah. And your brain, It's like, I just wanted, I just wanted to feel, You know, Respectable. I wanted to feel peaceful. I wanted, I wanted out and it really was a long, Long, Long, Long journey. And yeah, Just painful. And the world has you now. Because of you. I always tell you, You know what I always say, Right? I hold the flashlight. You have to do. Yes. I'll hold the flashlight and I'll say, Oh no, I didn't do that. Right. Try this, Try that, Try that, Try that. But I'm not the one doing the work. You are, I've done my work. And I've fallen on my face so many times that I could almost anticipate when someone else was going to fall. Right. And yeah, It's just an amazing journey. You know, When you go from living in the darkness to finding your light and letting it shine, Sounds so hokey pokey, But that really is the goal is to just be a hundred watt light bulb, Just shine, You know. But there's no price tag on this. Like I can't, I can't throw enough money at you to thank you. I mean, There's just, It's just worth more than a million dollars. Like you can't, You just can't know how valuable that's been for me. Like I, It's just, If there's no price tag. No. When you come out the other end of it, It's just, Oh, This is love. Exactly. This is life. Oh, This is consciousness. Oh, This is growth. This is ability. Oh, This gratitude. Oh, Oh, This is a commitment to self. Oh, This is what it feels like to be enough and not give a damn what it is. Freedom. Oh my God. You come out the other end of it and you're like, Oh my God, Like, Where have I been? Exactly. And I just watched another video of yours yesterday and it said, It's worth every tier. It's worth every minute you spend journaling. It's worth every conversation you have. That's difficult. It's worth, It's worth it. It's worth it. And even when I first discovered you in 2018, I was like, Yeah, Yeah. Like, Sure. Great. But then you're, It's like a gradual awakening. And you're like, Because I really didn't quite understand, Even when I signed up for your masterclass and I'm not trying to advertise for you here, But it's just like, Oh yeah, I trusted you so much that I was like, Yup. And so, But even when you were first talking about, You know, The law of attraction, I was like, Oh, I don't get it. I really don't under, I'm not, I can't reach that. And it just, And again, And you just, Just buckle down and just buckle down and just listen to it over and over and over. And as you keep listening to it, You keep making breakthroughs. And again, There's no price tag on that. Like I can only move forward now because it's been so bad. It's been, I've been so low that I was only the only way to go up. The only way to go now is up. Like it's just, You know, I said to my husband the other day, I said, You know, If you didn't know that Italy existed, Would you call a travel agent? No. If you didn't know Italy existed, Would you save money up to go on a trip? No. If you didn't know Italy existed, Would you buy a book about, You know, Tourism? No. You would not invest in it because it didn't exist. Right. And so people tend to focus on what they don't want and they focus on right here, Right now because of survival. Right. And then they question, Well, How come I don't have, How come I can't do that? Well, You're not tuned up for it. You're not putting any energy towards it because you don't believe it. Right. So, You know, People go, Oh, A law of attraction isn't real. It's always in play because I'm always going to get what I focus on and nothing more. And I'm always going to, And that's what I think is so sad because you're an ACOA, You come from a dysfunctional home. Unfortunately, The universe doesn't give a damn. Yes, Exactly. It works for everybody. So it's like, What if I want to learn Chinese and I put enough patience into it, Enough effort, I'm going to learn Chinese. I can't just say, Oh, Everybody else knows how to, You know, Speak Chinese and I don't, I'm not putting any effort into it. But the minute I start to put effort into it, I think I can, I think I can, I start to manifest whatever comes along with that. Right. Even when I signed up for your masterclass and I listened, You know, I was attended all the eight weeks. I was like, No, It's not, It's not going to happen to me. It's not, It's not going to happen to me. And you kept saying, Well, Walk by faith and not by sight. And I'm like, I've been pretty patient and nothing's happening. You know, So it's like, I'm already giving up on myself. And now that I finished that to a year, A year and a half ago, And I'm finally like, I'm like, Oh, It's starting. It's starting to stick. It's starting to like, I get it now. Like, And I make these little mini breakthroughs. And because, Because also I grew up in a religious family and that sort of, You know, Made me think about faith in a certain way. And it's not the same thing as what you're telling us as well in your classes and so on and your YouTube videos. So it's like, You can walk by faith and not by sight and just, Just, Just create whatever, However, You're going to create the vibration. You know, You, You give us many different tools. You say, Eat probiotics you know, Spray yourself with magnesium oil. Listen to brother is, Or is that his name? I've done it all. And so it's like, I guess if I eat yogurt today. And so it's like, You know what I really was like listening to every bit and thinking, Okay, Well maybe it'll work. And I, But inside I'm like, All right, If you go through the motions, It will eventually start working. You're taking action. Exactly. It's like raising your vibrations. Well, What is like, You know, I get it. I get it. And it does, It takes time, You know, And people are resistant and then people are also attached to this story. Right? Yes. When you're asking people to like, Well, You know, Tell your story and then be willing to tell a different story and you will, You will find yourself experiencing a different story. And the power is within you to do that, But let's conquer down and figure out how we can get you to do that. And that's, That's what I, That's what I want to bring to people, That process, That, That systematic process of being able to do that. And that's why I tell everybody in the, In the, In the classes, I'm not taking this away from you. You have three years to go through this. I want to make sure, Because the first time you go through it, The second time better, Third time more connections, You know, Neurologically, You're gonna, You're gonna have a breakthrough, But if you don't reinforce that breakthrough, You know, It's like amino acids, They fall apart. Right? So the neurological pathways, You have to keep reinforcing them and reinforcing them and reinforcing them. So it's an aha moment. And then it becomes a feeling in your heart. And then if you write about it a little bit more, Neural neurology is involved. And if you visualize it more neurology, If you speak it awesome, If you live it amazing. So this is literally remapping your brain. And that's what I think you're speaking to. So is there anything else you want to, One last, One last thing you want to tell our listeners? Well, I just want to, What you just said was also like, You know, When you're, When you're encountering these new ideas, Right? The it's like, When I, When I listened to your shame meditation, Like releasing shame, I remember this rush of like, Oh, The shame just came out. That was amazing. That was powerful. And then, So the next time I wanted the same feeling of it kind of really gushing out again, But it didn't happen the same way. Right. And you mentioned that once about even the other end of like heroin, Right? So your first hit of heroin is so powerful. And then you're trying to change the power. It's like, It's the Zen. It's like the Zen of something, Right? So the first encounter is very powerful, But it does, It's hard to match it the second time, The third time. So you just, Then you can give up, You can give up, You can give up too soon. Yep. So that's what I wanted. I guess that's the last thing I wanted to say was that don't give up because you're, You're not going to, It's, It's not going to, It's not going to have the same rush, But over time it will, It will lead to the same kind of joy. Yeah. A lack of resistance. You won't have the disease anymore. You'll have more ease. And suddenly you find the Zen, You know, You're like, Oh, It's peace. A peace that's for passive understanding. You're supposed to in the Bible. Yeah. I'm learning. Developing the contrast of, Oh, This is the way I'm supposed to be, Even though the world is crazy. Oh, I can be happy in spite of someone else's unhappiness. I can be happy. That's pretty amazing. I'm finally making room for myself. Like there was no room for me anywhere. There was no room for you because, And also you weren't making room for you because you didn't know you had a self. Right? How do you make room for a car you don't have, You can't, You can't have to start off with, Oh, I don't have a connection to myself and this is why, So let me work on that connection with self, How validate my experiences learn to feel those feelings that are rushing me and causing me to avoid what I really causing me to avoid myself. Oh, This is such a process. Yeah. I guess what I wanted, I wanted to give a visual like, Cause you're so good at giving the metaphors. Right? So it's basically like, I've been walking around wearing my clothes inside out every day, All day. And so wait a second. I take a second and I basically, And I it's like wet clothes, Try to turn to wet piece of clothing right side in. Like I need to turn it. I need to like wrangle with that and turn myself right side in because I've been walking around inside out the entire time. You don't know it. Yeah. And it's like, And you keep hitting walls and you keep hitting bad relationships, Dysfunctional, Abusive. It keeps like, You're never, You're never getting to the point where you're really happy and people just don't want it. People just are just constantly trying to find it outside. Even recently, You're saying it sounds cliche, But your happiness does not lie outside of yourself. And I was listening to that. I'm like, It doesn't, You mean I can't, I can't go out there and find it. This was even recent. Like, Wait, I mean, I really have to just find it with me. This is even like less than six months ago. Wow. And so I'm like, Right. I, I, It starts with my vibrational energy. It starts with my energy field. That's right. I think trolling everything that you can within it from loving your nail polish, Nail polish, Nail polish, Nail polish. It really starts with the nail polish. Absolutely right. You have to, You have, Your brain has to anchor to something concrete so that you can send the vibration of love to something because to send the vibrations to that love to the self that you don't yet have doesn't compute psychologically. And you need your brain to understand what you're doing in order for you to be able to heal spiritually. I, You cannot separate your spiritual work from emotional and psychological and neurological work. You can't because it's here, It's here. And your head has to connect to your heart. You have to create this cohesiveness. So to act like you're not a neurological creature is not going to work to act like you're not an emotionally abandoned child is not going to work to act like, Oh, The answer is forgiveness and gratitude. It's not going to work. You have to do the hard work first, Then it'll work. Then it'll work. It's really the little things too. It's like, It's not a grand sweep. Sometimes it's really, Sometimes it is, But I finding that it's really the little things like, You know, You're, You're joking about the nail polish, But it really does sometimes mean that today, All I can do is like, Maybe I'll go out and take care of myself. Maybe I'll get a 10 minute massage, Whatever. It's just like, It's little, The little incremental things. Yeah. And it's now starting to snowball for me. That's what happens because you're taking action, Which is creating jobs. So taking so long. I mean, I'm really, I'm almost in the sixth decade and I never thought, I didn't think that it would change. It's changing. Well, That's amazing. And the world is so fortunate to have, You know, A mystery carpet, Jean in it. And your daughter is so fortunate to have such an evolved mom and a dedicated mom and you make the world a brighter place. And I just want to thank you for your time, You know, And say thank you on behalf of all the listeners. Cause you're awesome. Your enthusiasm for life and your love for life is shining through and that's such a huge, Huge win for the adult child of an alcoholic. So, You know, You, You represent to all of us that healing is possible. So thank you for your bravery and your dedication to work. I couldn't have done it without you. Nope. I really couldn't. I really would not be here. I would not. I would be, I would look totally different. I would be different. I would be different. I would be different if you had not been the pioneer that you are. Well, I appreciate it. And thank you so much for being committed. So, And thank you for your time. Hopefully we'll do this again soon. Okay. All right. Bye girl. Bye. Namaste. Bye. Bye. Bye.