Emotional Balance With Food And Fitness With Brian Keane

Hello to all of my Insight Timer friends.

My name is Michelle Schelfant and I'm delighted that you're here with me today.

Welcome to my latest talk.

And as always,

After the show,

I love to hear your comments.

So make sure you leave a comment so I know how you liked it.

We'll talk soon.

And here we go with the latest episode.

Welcome to summer.

We are officially,

Officially in summer,

Which is very exciting.

So we've got a really great show today.

I have Brian Keene on the show.

We had such a fabulous conversation and I want to announce before we even jump into this a trigger warning for anyone that has an eating disorder or any sort of issues around food or fitness,

Anything at all like that.

And I want to announce right now that this podcast today,

And always to be honest with is never for me about helping someone to lose weight,

To look better,

To go get the,

You're finding your soulmate,

Nothing like that.

I am all about emotional health here.

And oftentimes I also have people on that talk about physical health.

So that is today.

And what I love about Brian,

He brings a beautiful balance between emotional and physical health.

He's talking about emotional balance with food and fitness.

So again,

Trigger warning,

I don't ever want to trigger anyone.

And so just know this before we go into the show,

I just want you to be aware of it because what we're talking about today is holistic health and fitness.

Okay.

We are today talking about what is holistic approach to fitness even mean building mental toughness while staying self compassionate.

How to find motivation.

Again,

It's not about how to find motivation to lose weight.

You might be someone that's underweight that needs to gain weight.

I know a heck of a lot of people like that,

But it's how to find motivation to help you to get healthy,

Healthy,

Whether that be emotionally healthy,

Physically healthy,

Whatever the heck it is.

We talked about that too.

And when trying to make too many changes over time,

How it can be counterproductive.

We got into all of these things.

So he's a wealth of knowledge.

Again,

All things holistic with health and fitness.

This is what Brian's all about.

Let me tell you a little bit about him.

He has over the last seven years,

He has gone from working as a full-time school teacher to one of Ireland's and the UK's leading thought leaders on all things,

Health,

Fitness,

And nutrition.

He's the author of two bestsellers,

The fitness mindset and rewire your mindset on top of his ever growing social media platforms with over half a million followers.

He also hosts one of the world's top health podcasts,

Which is regularly featured number one on iTunes health charts.

He has spoken at major wellness events around the world,

Such as Wellfest Ireland,

Met Fest Dubai,

And was keynote speaker at Google HQ in Dublin for their 2018 wellness event.

Let me just tell you,

He is a wealth of knowledge and honestly,

Such a wonderful human being.

It was just a great conversation that we had all around emotional balance with food and fitness.

So it is with great pleasure that I welcome the show,

Mr.

Brian Keene.

So welcome to the adult podcast,

Brian Keene.

Michelle,

Thank you so much for having me on.

I'm really looking forward to chatting.

I know we were just talking about how holistic that we both are,

Which is,

It's such a delight to have you on and go down this path of really holistic fitness.

Yeah,

I think it's such a underserved way of approaching fitness because it's very easy to be that go hard,

Keep training,

Diet,

Diet,

Diet.

And it's just,

It's trying to bring in more of an emotional conversation and a healthier relationship with your body,

With fitness,

With food,

Because ultimately it's what fuels people and makes them feel happier at the end of the day.

So that's what I try and do from my side.

I love that.

And I love your story.

Would you share a little bit about your story?

Because I know you were like a school teacher and now you're not doing that anymore.

Yeah,

I have a very unusual way that I got into the fitness industry.

I was a elementary school teacher for four years.

That was my job.

I went to university,

Went to college,

Got my degree,

And I was working as a teacher.

And I did four years in college,

Got my first teaching job,

Michelle.

And I was about 30 minutes into my what was a year three classroom in London.

So third grade in the US and Canada and North America.

And I thought,

I don't want to be a teacher.

This isn't what I want to do.

And the analogy I use on my podcast and in books is that it felt like I was years climbing a ladder and it was up against the wrong wall.

And it's not that I didn't love teaching.

I the parts of it I did.

I loved working with the kids and I still I've got my daughter at home and I love helping her with her stuff.

So I love that type of work.

But that Christmas I came home and I was about three months,

Three and a half months working as a teacher.

And I was having a real pity party for myself at home.

And I was talking to my mom,

Who was and still is my biggest fan to this day.

And she asked me a question that changed the complete trajectory of my life at the age of 24.

And she said,

OK,

Well,

You're not happy where you are.

So firstly,

You're not a tree.

If you don't like where you are,

You can move.

And then she goes,

Well,

What would you do for free?

And I'd never thought about that question.

What would I do for free?

And I turned to her and said,

I would work in a gym for free.

I was like,

If I was sweeping the floor in a gym,

I love fitness.

I love working out.

I love training.

I would be so happy.

And then I pulled on that thread and went and got my personal training certificate,

My certifications in strength and conditioning,

Sports,

Nutrition.

And the first day I walked into personal training college and I was doing both for three years.

I worked as a teacher during the day and a personal trainer at nighttime.

But my first day walking into personal training college,

I thought,

Wow,

This is where I'm meant to be.

Like this is the path I'm supposed to be on.

And over the past 10 years or so,

I've been very fortunate.

I've since moved online.

I help people coaching and programs.

I've written multiple books that have done very well.

I have my podcast where I get to chat to great people and I've got my clients that I get to work with and kind of help and serve and kind of rewire their relationship with food and rewire their relationship with fitness so that they can take that holistic approach so that it's serving their life and not taking from it.

So yeah,

That's kind of a long winded way of how I got to where I am today.

I love that though.

And I have to say your mother is a wise woman because I say that same statement all the time.

Like everything I do,

I would do for free.

And I ask that same question to people.

I'm like,

What would you do for free?

That's when you know you've struck gold.

That is the thing you're here to do,

At least for right now.

And it can morph and change over time,

Of course,

But nicely done,

Mom.

That was a great question for you.

Shout out to all the moms out there.

It changed your whole life,

Though.

I mean,

Truly changed your life.

How beautiful it is.

Yeah,

Go ahead.

I was going to say it's a funny thing because when I think of any credit I get or props I get or somebody sends me a message,

Same as you,

Michelle,

Because of the work you're doing with the podcast.

Like I'm sure somebody sent you a message off the back of the life and posture syndrome episode and was like,

Oh my God,

I didn't think about this.

It can change the trajectory of your life based on a conversation.

I always give my mom my props because I would probably still be working a job that I didn't really like in a school that I wasn't really happy and had that and not had that conversation.

And this chat we're having today might be that for somebody.

The chats you have with other people,

The solo episodes.

It's a moment.

Life can change in a moment.

And it's just understanding that if you're stuck and you're not happy where you are,

It could be one little thing that gets set off from a conversation and it sends you down a completely different trajectory towards a happier life.

Wow.

You know,

I'm sitting here listening to you and it's like,

I wouldn't,

I'm sure that you do a lot of teaching though with your clients.

So it's not that it was a waste of your time or anything like that.

Right.

But your soul was calling you to do something else,

But you might've needed that teaching and then you're applying it into what you're doing now.

It's so funny because I have so many clients that I work with and have been fortunate with over the years and in nearly every program that I run or anyone that's coming through a course that I have,

They're like,

Oh,

I can see the teacher because you're breaking down.

Like when you were teaching,

You're breaking down things like,

You know,

Compound fractions into its simplest form.

And now I'm just breaking down,

You know,

Micronutrients and macronutrients and food or breaking down your emotional response when you feel a certain way and you feel stressed and then you emotionally eat and then you fall down this pattern or path,

You're just teaching something different.

So I don't regret any of it.

I think everything that happens to us happens to us for a reason.

What's meant for you won't pass you as long as you listen.

And it's what I do today,

Just in a different area of,

You know,

I'm not teaching mathematics and literacy anymore.

I'm teaching fitness and nutrition.

That's beautiful.

So what exactly is a holistic approach to fitness?

Like what does that even mean?

With fitness,

I think there's a little bit of a misconception and I definitely had this when I started off first as well,

Michelle,

That fitness for me was training and diet.

They were the two things,

Nutrition,

Food and training.

And I thought,

OK,

These are the two things that are fitness.

And if I'm lean,

If I'm muscular,

If someone's looking to lose weight or lose body fat,

That's fitness.

And over the past 10 years or so,

I started to realize how broken that thinking was for me as a coach with the clients I was working with and also some of the people I was working with,

What they were bringing in when they'd come in and say,

Well,

Look,

Just I want to be lean or I want to be skinny or I want to be toned.

And then when I would start to talk to them,

I would realize that actually,

No,

It was they're trying to change an emotional state.

They feel really anxious or they feel really stressed or they feel insecure.

And in their mind,

They think that if they look this specific way,

It will remove this feeling that they have.

And a very important thing to ask when setting off on a fitness or a nutrition or any sort of journey like that is,

Okay,

Well,

What am I actually looking to get out of this?

What am I truly looking to feel?

And I think when you look at fitness holistically,

That takes into account your sleep,

Your stress management,

Your food,

Of course,

Your food's going to impact how you feel,

Your movement,

Whether you're gym or hitting a step count or,

You know,

Doing CrossFit or going for a walk after work,

Something that you enjoy to do.

And then all the other things in your life,

Your relationships,

Your job,

Your relationship to yourself,

Your relationship to others,

All of these things don't work in silos.

They have knock on effects for one another.

How you sleep will impact how you eat,

How you eat will impact how you move,

How you move will impact how you feel,

How you feel will impact how you treat others.

So I think it's important to know that when you take a holistic approach to fitness,

All those other areas in your life can improve and it can have a positive knock on effect.

And then the things you want to do,

Like,

You know,

Making maybe a healthier food choice or,

You know,

Going for that walk after work or maybe going for that spin class becomes easier because you know,

It's having a positive knock on effect everywhere else.

I'm like taking notes because you said so many things I want to talk about.

I'm like,

Oh wait,

All so many great,

Great points.

I love that because it really is.

There's an emotional component that I think so many people miss.

You just can't jump into,

Hey,

I want to look like this for a reason,

Or I need to lose weight.

Well,

Tell me more about that.

Is that kind of what it sounds like you're doing?

You're asking them more of the motivation behind it.

Yeah,

Well,

I think the why something I've spoken about quite a lot is the importance of knowing why you're doing something.

And sometimes it might be a surface answer,

But general rule of thumb.

And I put this in one of my books that if you ask it three times,

You'll normally get to the root of it.

And I use an example from one of the girls back when I used to do one to one personal training,

She came in and was looking to work with me and she said,

I want to lose 20 pounds.

And that's not unusual as a personal trainer working in a gym,

Somebody will come in and say,

I want to lose 10 pounds.

I want to lose 20 pounds.

And I said,

OK,

I was like,

Why do you want to lose 20 pounds?

And she goes,

Well,

I've got my sister's wedding coming up.

I was like,

OK,

Great.

Now,

Why do you want to lose 20 pounds for your sister's wedding?

She's like,

Well,

There's a dress I really want to fit into.

And I was like,

Oh,

Great.

Why do you want to lose 20 pounds to fit into the dress so that you'll be at your sister's wedding?

She goes,

Well,

I'll feel more confident if I lose the 20 pounds and I can fit into this dress I really like.

I was like,

OK,

Great.

So you've got your sister's wedding.

You want to fit into a dress.

You want to feel confident.

Why do you want to feel confident?

She goes,

Well,

A guy I'm going that's going there actually I really fancy.

I was like,

OK,

I got you.

And it's not that everyone's motivation is different.

But asking her gave me potentially the character reminder of why she was here,

But also for her when she was now she went from extrinsically motivated,

Where she was using me as a potential personal trainer to help her to being intrinsically motivated because she knew why she was there in the first place.

And I think that's so important to ask because the real reason why you're doing it,

And it can be a whole host of reasons from wanting to be more attractive to want to be able to play with your kids or your grandkids to want to be healthier and live a longer and more fulfilling lifestyle to whatever.

There's a whole host of potential answers that could come out of that question.

But knowing that at the core makes everything else so much easier because you're doing it for a reason.

They always say,

You know,

You can do any how if you can find a why.

I agree 100% agree.

You've got to know what your why is.

Did you ever challenge people on their why's?

And I hear that you challenged her.

And I'm speaking from I'm not speaking exactly from experience.

I want to tell you a little bit about my story.

I was a raw vegan for in my 30s,

Actually,

And for like a year and a half.

And I didn't do it to lose any weight.

I actually did it to to get healthy.

Like it just felt right to me.

I was working with actually he's big now on Instagram or on socials,

The medical medium,

Tony.

Yeah.

And I used to work with him one on one in my 30s,

Like many,

Many years ago.

So I became a raw vegan after working with him.

And I remember thinking,

Wow,

I'm losing so much weight.

I ended up doing a 14 day water fast during that time.

I lost I was probably 30 pounds less than what I weighed right now.

And I remember my thought was,

I mean,

Female,

I was like,

Oh my gosh,

I'm going to be so much happier.

And I didn't do it again.

I didn't do the fasting.

I didn't was not a raw vegan to lose weight,

But it started happening.

And I remember as it was happening throughout that time,

I thought,

Wow,

I wouldn't be able to fit into those pants.

I haven't put into it.

I would be able to do this.

And oh,

I'm going to be so much happier.

And what was interesting was that when I got there to the lower weight,

I was no happier.

My emotional state hadn't changed because and again,

It reinforced for me in the work I do.

It's always an internal job.

It's an internal thing that we have to work on.

It's not outside of ourselves again,

For the third time did not do this to lose weight,

But it happened.

And my thought as it was happening,

It was like,

Oh,

This is going to be so great.

It didn't change me.

I still had the same moods that I had before.

Did I physically feel better?

Absolutely.

Yes.

Like I physically felt great,

But emotionally I was the same person as when I was when I had started two years prior.

It's interesting.

It's such an interesting lesson that I think people can take there as well,

Michelle,

And something that I've said to people in the past and I'm sure I'll say it in the future because I've said it quite recently.

When somebody says,

I want to lose 10 pounds or I want to lose 20 pounds and that's it.

Full stop blanket statement.

I will normally say,

Okay,

We can,

You know,

Control calories,

Make food changes,

Et cetera.

And more or less kind of guarantee as a nutritionist,

You'll lose 10 pounds.

But I can't guarantee you'll be any happier.

I can't guarantee you'll feel better.

I can't guarantee any of that.

I can just guarantee when you step on a scale,

You will weigh 10 pounds less.

And that normally gets people thinking and going,

Actually,

I want more than that.

It's normally an emotional change they want or they've another,

It's something deeper that they're looking for.

And I think it's an important question to ask.

And you also mentioned something very interesting there that is a big philosophy of mine is focusing on process over outcome.

Now,

I know you said there the raw vegan,

You didn't do it to lose weight,

But it shows the power of process that when you're doing something and it becomes what I call your new normal,

The way you eat,

The way you live,

The way you train,

Outcome becomes inevitable.

And again,

I have a little bit of a,

And I get pushback on this from social media,

From diet coaches and from transformation coaches and things.

And I get it,

But I'm all about the process driven outcome versus the outcome,

Because you can put anybody eating broccoli and chicken or just very low calories from plants for several weeks.

But if they don't actually feel that good doing it and they can't stick to it,

And in some cases it even damages their relationship with food or relationship to themselves,

Then that outcome,

Even if you do lose the 10 or 20 pounds,

Isn't worth it.

There's a good chance you're going to rebound back anyways,

And you'd probably have a worse emotional state than when you started.

Whereas if you can find a process that you enjoy,

Something that gets you moving,

A food regimen that you enjoy,

It has recipes and foods that you like,

And that becomes the focus and you focus on that process,

You make outcome and results inevitable.

And I think that mindset shift can be very useful for people.

And you've experienced it nearly firsthand from what you've said,

But I think it's a useful takeaway for people as well.

I think,

And I'd like to hear from you on mindset,

Because I would think that most people know that let's say fast food is not good for us.

Fried food,

It's not healthy for us.

I mean,

Most humans know this.

Most humans know,

Eat whole foods or fruits and vegetables,

Those kinds of things.

But it can be really hard because so many of us,

We use food to numb out our emotions.

That was something that I did.

That was how I grew up.

And I'll consciously now know,

I'm going to have that slice of pizza,

Even though I don't do well in gluten,

I don't do well on dairy,

But I just,

I'm going to choose it and it sounds delicious.

I'm not going to feel good after,

I'm going to do it anyway.

And I hardly ever do it anymore,

But sometimes I do,

But I know it's because I'm just so emotionally overwhelmed.

And I know from talking to countless people over all these years,

I'm not alone in that boat.

So how do you,

How do we as humans work with our mindset around food?

How do we change that?

Well,

The first thing that you said there that I think is the bottom of the pyramid of what people need to understand is the awareness around it.

I think there's a big difference between emotional eating and being reactive and being like,

Oh,

I just emotionally ate there and you've eaten a whole tub of ice cream or a pizza in potentially your case.

And there was no awareness around it.

There's a big difference between that.

And I know that this food is not really going to agree with me,

But you know what?

My soul needs it now for whatever reason.

And one of the things I try and get people to think about with food is context matters a great deal with food,

Particularly with food relationships.

So somebody that I'm not talking eating disorders,

I'm talking more disordered eating,

Eating disorders is a completely different thing,

But disordered eating,

Binge eating,

Emotional eating.

There's a section in the last book that was one of those weird takeaways that I didn't think would connect with people,

But it did was emotional hunger versus physical hunger.

So it's just a checklist to go between those two things.

And two things I get people to check in with is the speed at which the hunger comes on.

And is it below the neck or above the neck?

So what you'll normally find is emotional eating when you're about to emotionally eat,

It's very quick,

It's very sudden,

And it's in your head.

It's above the neck.

When you're physically hungry,

It's normally your stomach that's rumbling and it's slow and gradually increases.

So straight away,

That check-in tells you,

Are you actually hungry or is this an emotional state?

Something has happened.

You were talking with your partner,

Your boss yelled at you,

And now you're looking for something to alleviate that feeling and you're using food as that unsupportive coping mechanism in that context.

So I think that first step of awareness is helpful.

After that,

I tell people to the context of food,

That no food,

And you mentioned fast food and fatty fried foods and those foods,

And yes,

They're not healthy by all objective measures.

But when it comes to good or bad,

The context is a great thing to think about here.

And one flip on this is there's foods that are high nutrients and high calorie.

There's foods that's low nutrient and low calorie.

There's a food that's a combination of both.

And if you think about it with food and being good and bad,

That's moral projection that we as humans are putting onto the food.

Like a piece of broccoli is not going to save you from a burning building and a chocolate bar is not going to stab you down a back alley.

The morals we put on the good and bad on those foods is our projected morals.

And in some cases,

You have to take a wider perspective of it.

And let's say,

For example,

And just to use,

Just say a weight loss example,

But any example,

But somebody is looking to lose weight and wants to lose a bit of body fat,

Just as an example here.

Generally,

The all or nothing mindset says,

Okay,

No cookies,

No pizza,

No chocolate.

You know,

That's the mindset people take.

But when you understand how fat reduction works and you control for calories,

Sometimes having a slice of pizza every day or a chocolate bar every day,

Or a couple of cookies factored into that plan is what allows somebody to adhere to the nutritional strategy they're on.

So in that context,

Pizza is a good food for somebody looking to lose weight.

Now again,

As we mentioned health,

A little bit of a different conversation,

But just as an example to give context here for people.

And I think when you get that food can be very emotional for a lot of us,

Myself included,

I've had those disordered binge eating patterns in the past.

And I still have to do that check in when I'm like,

Okay,

I really need chocolate now.

I really need pizza now.

And then I have to go and go,

Well,

I'm just after having a fight with my missus or my fiance,

Or,

You know,

I've,

I've,

My,

My daughter's blanked me for an hour because of whatever she's at that age now.

And that allows me to see that actually I'm not hungry now.

And if I want to eat the food,

Great,

Eat it.

Don't feel the guilt,

Enjoy it,

Savor it,

And then reset and get back on track.

Like sometimes with nutrition,

You get what's called,

What I call,

I call it something else in the book,

More derogatory,

But a panic button where they've had one bad meal and then it spirals out of control or they're on a plan and they have a food that's off the plan on a Saturday.

And before they know what,

They're not back on plan until Monday,

Because they just say,

Do you know what?

It's Monday as well.

I've gone off plan now.

I can't stick to this.

And with nutrition,

It's all about,

Well,

What are you looking to achieve?

Is your goal to feel healthier?

Are you trying to fuel your body?

Are you trying,

Are you doing it for ethical reasons?

In the case of raw vegan,

Are you trying to lose weight?

Are you trying to fuel performance for a new sport you might want to get into,

Or do you just want to be healthier so you can run around with your kids or your grandkids?

That's very important to know.

And then you reverse engineer your plan.

And then everything underneath that is,

Well,

What's your own personal subjective response to food in terms of how you emotionally respond and your stress management techniques,

Et cetera.

And then just kind of pulling at that thread until you find what works best for you.

I hope that makes sense.

Yeah.

Those are some great questions.

I like what you just said,

Actually.

Those would be great questions for people to ask themselves.

And then they take this journey because it's not about sometimes like kind of like you were saying before,

Like losing the 10 pounds.

It's like,

Tell me more about that.

Why do you want to lose that 10 pounds?

And I like exactly what you said.

Do you want to play with your kids on the ground?

Do you want to be able to go walk?

Do you want to go be able to go to hike?

Do you want to be able to,

What is it?

So I like that.

Really,

Really important.

And also understanding those emotional triggers.

So many of us,

I mean,

Food can be very emotionally tied or tied to our emotions.

How would someone find the best diet if they're interested in that?

Like how do they know?

Because there's so many out there.

There's like a bazillion.

I mean,

If you're on Instagram,

As you know,

You scroll through,

It's like,

Oh my God,

Do you want to do keto?

Should you do raw vegan?

Should you do low carb?

It's overwhelming.

So where does someone even begin?

So if someone is hearing this,

They're asking themselves these really beautiful,

Holistic questions about what their goals are.

What's step one for them?

Or that would be step two,

Actually,

After they ask themselves the question,

Then what?

Where do they go?

What do they do?

I normally recommend people take a via negativa approach,

Meaning that they remove the noise that's out there and then they can focus on the signal.

So what that normally looks like,

And again,

People listening to this podcast might be different,

But definitely my podcast audience connect with this,

Is when someone wants to follow a diet,

Vegan,

Keto,

Anything that interests them.

I think the curiosity straight away is a good first check in.

Oh,

I'm curious about fasting,

Water fasting or raw vegan.

I'm curious about that.

If there's enough curiosity,

There's enough motivation driver to potentially try that.

So once you've got that curiosity,

That's step one.

The second thing is removing the amount of people that you're following and listening to because the contradictory advice will make your head spin.

And I'm a certified nutritionist and I'm in the weeds when it comes to the study and the research and I have a lot of friends who are nutritional researchers.

So I'm very in the weeds with it.

And you can find evidence to support any claim and you'll see it online.

And that therein is the problem because there's so much confusion based on what study,

Who you're listening to.

So you need to drown out or block out,

Apologies,

Some of that noise online.

So a good rule of thumb is I say three people.

And it's not to unfollow every account you follow who has nutrition advice,

But three people who you like,

Who you know,

Who you trust,

Who you think will serve you with raw vegan or fasting or keto or whatever diet it is,

Paleo.

And you follow those three people and you consume their information and you listen to them.

And then you start to test it and use a check-in process with how you're feeling.

Because like I've done vegan in the past and I can be a little bit of a guinea pig for myself when it comes to nutritional strategy because I geek out on that.

That's my thing.

I geek out on,

Well,

How will I feel in keto?

How will I feel if I do a fast?

How will I feel if I'm eating raw vegan?

You need to have a process of,

Okay,

Well,

This is the end goal.

Like we said,

That's the anchor that's underneath all of this.

And then you're checking in regularly over a three,

Six,

12 week period.

Well,

Actually,

Am I getting closer to my end goal?

And if it is,

Is it something I can continue doing?

Because raw vegan is an example here.

Let's say you felt great on that.

You lost the weight and you're like,

I'm going to continue doing this.

I assume you're not doing it from the way you said it,

Michelle.

You're obviously following something else now.

Are you still raw vegan?

No,

No,

No,

I'm not anymore.

Yeah.

So,

So at some point you decided,

No,

That,

That this isn't working.

I feel either the restriction or it's not sustainable,

Whatever it is.

So at some point your check-in went,

No,

This isn't for me anymore.

Glad I tried it.

It worked well.

Here were the outcomes.

This is how I felt.

This is how I looked,

But actually I can't really stick to this.

But there'll be a scenario potentially that you're in now that you are meeting a certain way and going,

Actually,

I could probably do this for the next six years.

I could probably do this for the next 10 years.

And that's how you know,

Well,

This is working well.

So that's what I would recommend people do is,

Is use that filtering process.

Use your curiosity as the first gauge,

Block out the noise of the people you're following so you can get legitimate information that will serve you and then check in with it.

Is it actually moving you closer,

Further away to your goals?

And then if it is,

And you hit that goal and you want to continue it,

Then great.

If you want to go on to something else,

Then that's fine.

Or do a modified version of it.

I've tried nutritional protocols over the years personally based on goals,

Based on circumstances because life changes,

You know,

Very easy to live a certain way when you're,

You know,

Single and no kids,

Very different when you've got kids and a fiance or a kid's in a husband or a wife.

And it's,

It's completely different.

So scenarios changes.

So you need to update it during those times.

I love this because what I'm hearing you say is when you keep saying check in with yourself,

To me,

That's tapping into your own intuition.

Like your body knows what it wants you to eat.

Your body really knows.

And I know that when I was a raw vegan,

I did feel really good.

And this is,

This is like 15,

No more than probably 20 some years ago.

This is when nobody was raw vegan.

I had a Vitamix.

Nobody knew what that was back then.

Like it was like,

It was so strange.

People were like,

What are you doing?

Like I'm juicing.

They're like,

What?

I'm like,

Yeah,

It's great.

I'm having a cashew nut cheesecake for Thanksgiving.

Like they're like,

What?

Yeah.

Anyway,

It was foreign.

People didn't like it.

They thought I was weird,

But it,

And my husband joined me for a few months and he lost so much weight so fast.

People thought he was sick.

They're like,

Something's wrong with you.

And he's like,

No,

I feel good.

But I'm eating like 20 bananas every day.

Like it was crazy,

But interesting.

So my husband came out of it and he said,

I'm a meat eater.

And I came out of that stage and I said,

I'm not,

I know I'm not,

I've never been drawn to me.

Don't really like meat.

I can do a little bit of chicken every once in a while,

But I'm okay with seafood and I love plant.

I'm more plant-based and that's where I am today.

And like,

I am so drawn to a plant-based diet,

Not because anybody has said this to me,

But that's what feels right.

So I hope people hearing this tap into themselves,

Like what feels right.

There's so many different plans out there,

Whether like you said,

Keto,

There is the Mediterranean diet.

That one also really appeals to me.

That one,

That one feels doable for a lifetime.

And that's the thing you got to consider,

Right?

Like what can I do for the rest of my life that makes it easy?

I have a friend that she actually is overweight and needs to lose weight according to her.

This is not me saying that,

But she could.

And she said,

You know,

I'm in pain.

She said,

I'm physically in pain.

My knuckles hurt.

She goes,

I know I eat too much processed foods.

I'm on sodas.

I got to give that up.

And we talked about it.

I said,

You know,

Or you balance it out.

Like maybe have one soda on the weekends.

Like,

Cause I find when we cut things off completely,

There are parts within us.

This is my work.

Of course they get mad.

They're like,

No,

I want that soda.

Right?

So there is a balance to all of this,

But there also is,

Like I was saying,

Is allowing that choice of how we eat to call to us and let it be a match.

Right?

Yeah.

Well,

Your body,

As you've mentioned,

Will tell you what you need the majority of the time.

And it's a thought experiment that I use with people when they have that mindset.

Like you mentioned,

If I say,

OK,

Michelle,

Don't picture a purple polar bear,

Whatever you do,

Don't picture it.

Your mind is conjuring up this image of a purple polar bear.

And the same thing can happen with food.

When you say you can't eat pizza or don't eat pizza or don't have soda,

That's what you crave and that's what you want.

And I always tell a story,

One of my clients,

And this is slightly off because he was very obese to begin with,

But it gives you context on how you can potentially approach it in terms of out of box at the box thinking in terms of your friend for weight loss.

He was came to me and he had about a hundred pounds to lose.

And we did lose the weight over a period of time.

But he was eating two family sized packets of Mars bars every day after dinner.

And the first week we were working together because I was talking to him and he told me about all the diets he tried and how he'd fell in love,

Fallen off track.

And I said,

OK,

All I want you to do this week is I want you to eat nine Mars bars.

And he came back and was like,

Well,

Look,

I'd lose way more weight if I lost more.

I was like,

No,

No,

I was like,

Don't come back to me.

I was like,

I'm sacking you as a client.

If you come in next week and you've eaten less than nine Mars bars.

And he at this point,

His family and friends were like,

You were with the worst personal trainer of all time.

You need to fire your personal trainer.

And he came back in the next week and he lost weight.

And I said,

OK,

Great,

Because he was basically down 200 calories every day.

And because he was so he was,

You know,

100 pounds of a weight that for him going up and down the stairs,

That was our whole first workout.

We didn't even go into the gym.

And I said,

OK,

For the next two weeks,

I want you to eat eight Mars bars.

And you can see where that went.

Every two weeks,

I brought it down to the point that he lost over 100 pounds,

Eating two Mars bars every single day after work or after work,

After dinner.

And it's that philosophy and that out of the box thinking that you don't have to do this all or nothing shift.

And in a lot of cases,

That's the recipe for failure when it comes to any sort of dietary adherence for whatever reason.

So I think you need to include either foods that you love as a goal dependent.

His was weight loss.

And he was very similar to your friend.

His his life was being negatively affected,

Like he had to get two seats on airplanes,

Like his life quality was low because of his weight.

And that drastically improved it.

And that approach can work.

And it just gets people to switch off that.

Oh,

All or nothing thinking,

Which frustrates and inevitably upsets a lot of people because they think they're the problem when in fact it was their approach that was the problem.

I love what you just said,

Because again,

It isn't about taking everything away.

No one can survive like that forever.

Nobody can.

I mean,

That's too strict.

I like that so much.

And I agree with it.

Yeah,

Like I said,

Like every once in a while I do have pizza,

Even though I don't feel good and I know it,

But it's like I love pizza.

So once in a while I give myself the joy of having a piece of pizza.

You just got to feed your soul sometimes.

I'm with you.

I know,

You know,

I just know,

Though,

That when I was growing up,

I did use that like my emotional foods that numbed me out were carbs.

So I use like pizza,

Pasta,

Potatoes and popcorn.

Those are my four favorite foods.

And they still are.

But I don't eat them the way that I used to eat them.

And like like I was saying earlier,

Like you were saying,

I'm really mindful now and I choose them and I'll say I'm going to have gluten free pasta and I put a bunch of broccoli on it and I might put some shrimp on there because I do some I like shrimp and fish.

But but that's it.

You know,

So it's not just a big mound of pasta anymore.

So I still get what I love.

But again,

It's all about balance.

Right.

Really is about balance.

That's a great story.

Thank you for that.

So how do you build a mindset of mental toughness?

You talk about this.

How do you do that?

Mental toughness is a very funny one,

And I'm in the process.

I've written four four books,

Three bestsellers,

And I'm writing my newest one,

Which I'm writing about resilience and mental toughness.

But I have a very I won't say unique because I'm sure there's nothing unique at this stage in the world.

And there hasn't been an original idea in 2000 years.

It's just people building on top of other ideas.

But I think when it comes to building mental toughness and mental resilience in the context of,

Say,

Holistically being happier,

You have to have an element of when to toughen up and when to be self-compassionate.

And I think and have definitely in my personal life over indexed on both too much at different times.

Sometimes I was way too hard on myself and just was like,

Toughen up,

Come on,

Just grind through it.

And other times I was just too soft.

I was like,

Oh,

I don't feel like it today.

And the reality is with mental toughness and mental resilience,

When it comes to whatever you're looking to do,

Balance and the yin and yang is really in the middle of it.

There's a time and a place when you need to toughen up.

For example,

I didn't want to do my workout this morning.

I was up early.

I was up at six.

I didn't want to do my workout.

I was like,

I'm really tired.

I didn't sleep super well.

But I know if I train and work out now,

I'll eat better.

I'll feel more switched on for our talk and other things I have today.

I really need to do this.

So I wasn't self-compassionate in the morning.

I was like,

Come on,

Brian,

Toughen up.

Let's go.

But there's other times and a recent example was when my daughter was at soccer and she's got big into sport recently.

And I remember an old kind of weird childhood thing of other people's words that I heard as a kid being projected out of me onto her.

And I remember thinking,

Oh,

My God,

I hate the way I sound right now.

I've been way too hard on her,

Way too tough on her because I thought she wasn't trying hard enough in the game.

And I was I had to cut myself off and go,

You need to just calm down now.

You need to take a breath.

This is an old coaching when you were a kid and you hate when people did it to you.

And I could have used to toughen up and grind it out mindset then.

But I was compassionate and went,

OK,

You need to learn from this.

This is a learning and teaching moment for you with her.

And it's a learning moment for you.

And you're using different tools at different times to make yourself more mentally tough and more mentally resilient.

And they're just two examples.

And I think it crosses over.

Sometimes you need to just say,

Do you know what?

I need to ease up on myself.

I've been way too hard on myself.

I need to learn from this,

Use the failure as feedback and improve and fail forward.

And other times you need to say,

Wow,

I actually just I need to get on with it today and just suck it up and go.

And it's once you know when to use what you can build mental resilience and toughness,

And it becomes part of that process that I said.

And then the outcome of wherever direction is aimed again becomes inevitable.

From my experience,

I'm speaking anecdotally from,

You know,

A focal group of one here,

But that's how I would consider approaching it.

I like that.

But in the adult chair here,

We talk about all of our inner parts and we have all these different voices.

So that's what I'm hearing you say.

You use your your use,

Your sometimes your adult voice and sometimes maybe your maybe the teacher or your parent or your inner coach voices says,

Come on,

Get out of bed,

Brian,

Let's go.

But yeah,

Yeah,

I like that.

I like that a lot because I was going to ask you,

How do you if someone's listening now and they are wanting to get out of bed?

And this is I'm thinking of a couple of friends of mine,

Actually.

They're like,

I just need to start walking once a day,

Even if it's 15.

And I said,

Even if it's 15 or 20 minutes,

They're like,

Yes,

Absolutely.

But they're having a hard time motivating themselves to even do that.

And but they did.

One of them did get started and she was texting me a picture of herself every day walk.

And I was like,

Yeah,

Like really encouraging her and coaching her on there.

But how what do you say to someone that might have a hard time getting started?

How do you self motivate to get going?

A couple of things there.

You've given me an indirect tip that I would have would have offered.

And that's the accountability of putting it out there to somebody,

A friend,

A family member on social media,

Somewhere where it makes you accountable.

It can be really helpful.

I also think changing your relationship with motivation is helpful here because motivation is just a state change,

A song,

A podcast,

Any of that can change your state and an instinct.

Motivation is a state is a state.

It doesn't it'll get you up and moving,

But it doesn't keep you going.

Your habits and what you do is what you're looking to change.

You're trying to make it an automatic thing that you do.

You know,

Tell me what you do every day and I'll tell you where you'll be in a year.

It's not tell me how you feel every day and tell me where you'll be in a year.

And I think it's small things that you can stick to.

It's not dissimilar to the Mars bar story I told earlier.

I could have said,

Don't eat 10 Mars bars.

I didn't.

I said,

Don't eat one.

You're eating nine now instead of 10.

And someone that wants to go walking.

Yes,

You want to walk 20 minutes,

But maybe you have to start with five and maybe you have to have a stack and find something that allows you to get moving.

So something I used to do when I'm I run a bit,

But I'm not a big runner.

I like lifting weights.

I like doing cross for things along those lines.

But to get myself from zero to one,

Which is the hardest part of any journey,

Going from one to ten is considerably easier than going from zero to one,

Figuratively speaking.

But I would save podcasts that I really wanted to listen to,

And I would not listen to them unless I was on my run.

And that was that was the commitment I made to myself.

And that can work for somebody that wants to go for a walk for five or 10 or 15 minutes.

Maybe you have a playlist of songs or a podcast like this or another podcast that you're listening to or just something you really want to consume.

And you're using that as your motivation to get going.

That you do not get to do this unless you do the walk and you you tie those two things together.

And what happens there is you end up changing the emotional relationship to the thing that was so difficult in the beginning,

Because you've now put a positive attachment to it.

And if you do that consistently over time,

You don't have this negative association with,

Well,

I have to walk.

It's what I get to walk now and I get to listen to this thing.

I really want to listen to.

And that approach can be really useful on top of the accountability that you mentioned there,

Which I think is a massive underused tool for staying on top of something that you've said to yourself,

Particularly in the beginning,

Because everything is difficult when you try and change it first.

But after a certain point,

It becomes a new normal.

So you just push through until that happens,

Whether that's several days,

Several weeks,

Several months in some cases.

If you persevere and you're consistent with it and you make it a daily habit,

Eventually it becomes your new normal and then it becomes easy.

Mm.

I keep hearing the word balance like everything is really about balance.

Nothing too extreme here.

I love this.

One more question for you.

What is the biggest mistake that people make when it comes to really?

I'm going to say the way they're eating or their fitness plan.

Like what is their biggest mistake that you find?

The biggest one I see is what I talked about earlier,

And that's making too many changes too soon.

Ah,

Yeah.

100%.

And I would consider myself as somebody that's quite good with fitness,

Training,

Nutrition,

Etc.

Like I it's what I work in.

It's my area of passion.

It's what I love.

It's what lifts me up.

It's what inspires me.

But even if I make too many changes too soon with nutrition or with training,

I find it really difficult to stick to.

And that doesn't matter where you fall from absolute beginner to advanced.

Too many changes too soon is a recipe for failure.

So just making those small incremental changes and knowing that what you do,

It's the small things done consistently well lead to extraordinary results over time.

And that mindset,

That approach,

That philosophy,

Although doesn't look as life changing from the outside,

Is actually what most people do when they make positive change in whatever direction they aim their energy in.

So I would say don't make too many changes too soon.

And that goes for all areas.

That goes for personal relationships.

That goes for your diet.

That goes for your training.

That goes for anything you're doing.

Small changes that you can stick to and they compound positively over time.

They snowball positively over time.

That's the real secret for success with the majority of things.

That's so true.

So true.

I get out of bed every morning.

I because I was my muscles were so tight for a long time.

And I said and I kept hearing from people,

You need to do a yoga class.

You need to stretch more.

You need to do all.

And I'm like,

I know.

And Brian,

I'm like,

I know what I need to do.

I know this.

Do I want to do that?

Do I want to get in the car and drive to a yoga class?

No.

Do I want to even get,

You know,

In front of my TV in the morning for an hour?

No.

But what I did do.

See,

This is one of my parts.

These are all these ego parts that we have.

Right.

And I said,

OK,

This is what I will do.

I will roll out of bed and I put a yoga mat right next to my bed.

Literally,

I roll out of bed and I land on the yoga mat and I do five minutes of cat cow,

Downward dog.

I do Cobra.

I do all the I do all these great stretches.

Right.

Five minutes.

It is literally changing how I feel on a daily basis.

I've been doing it for like two,

Three months,

Maybe.

I feel phenomenal from five minutes.

But what I'm finding is it's like,

OK,

Maybe I can do one minute more.

Now I'm going to add this in.

So now I'm there for like seven minutes and it's perfect.

It's perfect for me.

And then I do I do a lot of walking.

So I'll walk like anywhere from gosh,

45 minutes,

Minimally to like two hours a day.

So I like to do maybe once in the morning and then once at night.

I do a lot of that and I do a little bit of weights,

But that's all I want to do.

I was working out with a trainer for a while,

And my ego did not like going there for an hour.

When I tell you there was resistance like crazy,

I would be furious in the morning.

My husband's like,

Why are you so mad?

I'm like,

I've got to go to the gym.

I'd be so mad.

I'd get to the gym.

I'd be OK once I got there at 45 minutes.

I'm like,

I got to leave.

So I started saying I finally said to her,

To my trainer,

I said,

Can I just come for 45 minutes?

I don't know what there's something going on with 45 minutes.

She goes,

Oh,

Yeah,

She goes,

We can change your times.

Brian,

All of a sudden I didn't mind going to the gym.

I went to the gym,

Left in 45 minutes.

Happy as a clam.

Everything was great.

But I had to,

Again,

Tune into myself and say,

What do I want to do?

And I had to honor that part.

It was so angry that I was saying for an hour,

I was like,

OK,

45 minutes of this.

So crazy.

I love it.

But that's your feedback.

Like,

As you said,

That emotional response and anger is direct feedback that something's out of alignment here and you need to make a slight switch somewhere.

Yes.

And I made it.

And now I don't even have a trainer.

I'm thinking about trying it again with a different person.

But yeah,

But I mean,

Even my stretching is changing my life and my walking and hiking that I do.

So anyway,

Anything else you want to share?

This was so great.

Anything else?

Any other?

We have a lot.

You have a lot of words of wisdom.

I really appreciate it,

Michelle.

I know I think we've so much there.

And just to anchor what you said,

I think if people take nothing away,

But the five minutes rolling out of bed onto a yoga mat,

I think that approach in whatever that looks like reading a page of a book,

Getting into the gym for five minutes or doing stretching for five minutes in the morning or having quality time with a loved one or a conversation or dropping into a parent or an elderly member that's beside you.

Those five minutes don't consistently they add up.

You think about them over a five year period,

10 year period.

It's not five minutes.

It's considerably more than that.

So I'm so glad that you shared that.

And I think that's a phenomenal takeaway for people.

I love that,

Too.

And really,

As I keep hearing,

It's balance.

What I'm taking away from you is everything is about is about balance.

And I could not agree more with you.

It really is about balance.

Everything that you've shared makes so much sense.

It's doable.

It's intuitive.

It's based on who I am and anyone that's listening to this.

It's based on what you need,

What you want,

Where you are in your life.

There's no perfect plan.

There's no perfect fitness plan,

Diet plan,

Weight,

All of the things.

It's based on where you are in your life,

Because there are many people out there that need to gain weight.

I have friends that are like,

I can't gain weight.

I'm like,

Oh,

You know,

And so they're trying to gain weight.

So we you know,

So no matter where you are,

It's an intuitive process.

Drop inside.

Find out what your inner voices are telling you and guiding you to do.

And you can't go wrong if you listen to that inner voice and get more tuned in with that everything,

You'll feel healthier,

Wealthier,

More fulfillment,

Your life will be where it needs to be.

And it's very easy to ignore that inner voice.

And I think that's why your work is so powerful,

Michelle.

It's getting people to tune into that.

This just happens to be the fitness element of that conversation.

What that inner voice tells you,

Everything you need to do.

Yeah,

I think is dieting can be such a triggering word for people like what?

I'm like,

I don't like that word diet,

But I do like having this goal of just being healthy.

Like.

That's,

You know,

A universal thing,

Like let's all strive to be.

We all want that.

Right.

So and this is what you're talking about.

So your message is so powerful.

I'm so happy to have you on today.

Thank you so much,

Brian.

Where would people find you and find your books?

Pleasure is on mine.

Thanks so much,

Michelle.

Yeah,

My books are everywhere online.

The fitness mindset,

Rewire your mindset.

The keynade are my three main books.

The other ones are sports nutrition book for athletes and my podcast,

The Brian Keane podcast,

And I'm Brian Keane fitness and everything.

I'm on all the channels,

TikTok,

Instagram,

Facebook.

We put out a lot of content.

I'm very fortunate that I get to make as much that I get to create.

So I'm very grateful for that.

And everything we've talked about here,

I've got more on it when it comes to books and resources for people that anyone wants to kind of follow up on any of it.

I love it.

Well,

Thank you so much,

Brian.

We appreciate you being on today.

Pleasure is all mine.

Thank you so much again.

Thank you so much for joining me today.

I wish you a beautiful week and I'll see you next week for the next show.